Tops schools for Chemistry?





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Discus: College Search and Selection: August 2004 Archive: Tops schools for Chemistry?
By Kousuke (Kousuke) on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 03:24 pm: Edit

what schools have good chemistry programs?

By Stelikepalli (Stelikepalli) on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 04:25 pm: Edit

I think Harvard, MIT, and Berkeley have the best chemistry programs.

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Some great research universities:
Caltech*
Cal-Berkeley*
Chicago
Columbia
Cornell
Harvard*
Illinois-Urbana Champaign
MIT
Northwestern
Princeton
Stanford*
Wisconsin-Madison

LACs:
Carleton
Dartmouth
Grinnell
Harvey Mudd
Haverford
Lawrence University
Pomona
Reed
Rose Hulman
Williams

By Mudbutt (Mudbutt) on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Rose Hulman and Dartmouth are not LACs.

By Wisconsinguy (Wisconsinguy) on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 02:46 am: Edit

Dartmouth is in a rather ambiguous area between LACs and Universities. Call it the country's foremost liberal arts university.

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 03:29 am: Edit

Mudbutt, we knwow that Dartmout is not a LAC. But when it comes to the humanities, social sciences and siences, Dartmouth focuses only on undergraduate education. They have an MBA, a Medical school and a graduate program in Engineering, but that's about it. In that regard, Dartmouth is more akin to LACs than it is to major research universities.

Let me put it another way, there are two reasons why Dartmouth is not a LAC:

1) Its affiliation to the Ivy League
2) Its size. Most LACs have an undergraduate student population under 3,000, Dartmouth's undergraduate population is slightly over 4,000. But by and large, Dartmouth is much more similar to a LAC than it is to a research university.

By Im_Blue (Im_Blue) on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 04:52 am: Edit

Dartmouth has PhD programs in science and engineering, but not humanities and social sciences.

By Bunmushroom (Bunmushroom) on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 02:43 pm: Edit

Cal Tech, Berkeley, Harvard, Stanford, mit

By 5st (5st) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 06:22 pm: Edit

Add the Unviersity of Michigan to your list. It has a very good research ranking in chemistry, but more important for Kousuke, the undergraduate program actually receives a lot of attention.

By Mysticwistful (Mysticwistful) on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 06:59 pm: Edit

Nobody goes for the Berkeley undergrad chemistry program. The graduate program rocks......but undergrad really sucks.

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:30 am: Edit

Mysticwistful, that is cliche. Berkeley is just as good at undergraduate chemistry as it is in graduate chemistry. LACs have a different approach, but among research institutions, Cal is as good as they come.

By Sacrificet (Sacrificet) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 02:08 am: Edit

what about johns hopkins, anyone know?

By Rtkysg (Rtkysg) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 05:03 am: Edit

John Hopkins is great, but its chemistry dept. is not at the same level as Berkeley's

By Mysticwistful (Mysticwistful) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 09:49 am: Edit

Berkeley's chemistry program at the undergraduate level does indeed suck Alexexandre. Let me put it this way. Who would choose Berkeley's chem program over HYPSMC and the ivies unless money was a HUGE factor? Nobody.

By Rtkysg (Rtkysg) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 10:04 am: Edit

I think I would choose Berkeley over Yale,Darthmouth,Penn,Brown,Columbia for chemistry :)

By Cornellgrad02 (Cornellgrad02) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 10:14 am: Edit

Realize that UC Berkeley has a college of chemistry. It is undoubtedly the best undergrad chem program in the country. You are in a very close knit and tight community and almost all the professors know the undergrads and most of the undergrads are doing research in some lab. My brother received his B.S. at Cal before getting his Ph.D in chemistry at Harvard and he absolutely LOVED the program at Berkeley (he's going back to post-doc)...Lastly, anyone who thinks that there is no relation between the quality of a graduate program and an undergrad program, particularly in the sciences is really kidding themselves. Graduate students are a very motivated, self starting bunch...EVERY professor I know and have known spends much more time with the undergrads working in my lab then they do with the graduate students...alright...I'm ranting, I'll stop there.

cheers,
cornellgrad02

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:03 pm: Edit

Cornellgrad and Rtkysg, you guys are both correct. Cal rocks in Chemistry, undergraduate or graduate. But you have to realize something. I read a post from Mysticwisful that stated in no uncertain terms, that schools like the University of Chicago, Duke, Johns Hopkins and Cal did not belong in the same academic league as schools like Brown, Darmouth, Penn, Cornell and Columbia, seemingly just because the latter are Ivy League universities and the former aren't! I am at a loss.

By Rtkysg (Rtkysg) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 12:44 pm: Edit

I disagree the notion of an Ivy school being at another level just because it's one of the Ivy leagues. Actually there're some angles that we can view differently in the comparison amongst the mentioned schools. Below are some:

- Chicago and John Hopkins, for most of the departments, are not as elite as BDPCC. However, for certain depts. like Economy(Chicago) and Medical/Bio-engrg(John Hopkins), Chicago and Hopkins has the prestige reaching Harvard's status and are placed well above the rest of the ivies.

- Duke is definitely in the same league as the Ivies (except the Big Three). The sole argument for being a participant in an ancient sports league, when brought up to the issue of academic league, gives little or no valid effect.

- Finally, people often regard Cal to be inferior to the Ivies. However, IMO this is only valid when we are talking about the selectivity and the strength of student body (two factors of prestige among others). When we are referring to the issue of academic league though, it's pretty fair to regard the graduate schools and in this case Berkeley sweeps all the Ivies except Harvard. Hence we can argue that Cal should be placed in the same league as the Ivies.

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 01:24 pm: Edit

Actually, Chicago and JHU hold their own in most fields. Check it out:

BIOLOGY:
Cal #2
Johns Hopkins #5
Duke #12
Columbia #14
Cornell#14
Chicago #20
Penn #23

CHEMISTRY:
Cal #1
Columbia #8
Cornell #8
Chicago #14
Penn #18
Johns Hopkins #27
Duke #43

MATHEMATICS:
Cal #2
Chicago #6
Cornell #10
Columbia #13
Penn #16
Duke #25
Johns Hopkins #26

PHYSICS:
Cal #3
Chicago #7
Cornell #7
Columbia #10
Johns Hopkins #20
Penn #20
Duke #32

ECONOMICS:
Chicago #2
Cal #6
Penn #9
Columbia #14
Cornell #17
Duke #21
Johns Hopkins #25

ENGLISH
Cal #1
Chicago #5
Cornell #6
Columbia #8
Johns Hopkins #8
Penn #10
Duke #15

HISTORY:
Cal #3
Chicago #5
Columbia #5
Cornell #10
Johns Hopkins #10
Penn #13
Duke #15

POLITICAL SCIENCE:
Cal #2
Chicago #8
Duke #8
Columbia #11
Cornell #20
Penn and JHU not ranked

PSYCHOLOGY:
Cal #6
Columbia #11
Cornell #15
Penn #15
Duke #24
Johns Hopkins #24
Chicago #30

SOCIOLOGY:
Cal #1
Chicago #3
Penn #11
Columbia #14
Cornell #14
Duke #16
Johns Hopkins #19

BUSINESS:
Penn #2
Chicago #4
Columbia #7
Cal #10
Duke #12
Cornell #15
Johns Hopkins does not have Business school


ENGINEERING:
Cal #3
Cornell #10
Johns Hopkins #21
Columbia #24
Penn #26
Duke #30
Chicago Does not have Engineering


LAW:
Chicago #3
Columbia #5
Penn #9
Duke #10
Cal #11
Cornell #12
Johns Hopkins does not have Law School


MEDICAL SCHOOL:
Johns Hopkins #3
Penn #4
Duke #4
Columbia #8
Cornell #12
Chicago #22
Cal does not have a medical school

I would say thay are all pretty even...except for Cal, which is head and shoulders above the rest.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Here's the list for undergraduate schools that send the highest percentage of chemistry students on for doctorates:
http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html

Anyone interested in studying chemistry should also pay a visit to the American Chemical Society's committee for professional training site -

http://www.chemistry.org/portal/a/c/s/1/acsdisplay.html?DOC=education\cpt\programs.html

It lists the 629 schools in the U.S. that have been accredited by ACS for meeting professional standards in chemistry education. It also describes the standards by which the ACS approves undergraduate programs, which is very useful when comparing programs. The truth is, there are quite a few good schools out there for chemistry undergraduate studies.

If the above link doesn't work go to: www.acs.org - click on educators and students, then click on the link for Committee for Professional Training, then approved programs

By Sacrificet (Sacrificet) on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 08:56 pm: Edit

alexandre, where'd you get that list

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:33 am: Edit

Sacrificet, with the exception of Law and Business, I got those rankings from the US News and World Report Graduate School rankings. For Law and Business, I used other sources which I respect more.

By Sacrificet (Sacrificet) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:49 am: Edit

the us news one has the full ranking?
or is that the premium edition or whatever

what sources did you use other than us news, if you don't mind sharing

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 12:54 am: Edit

The edition of hte USNWR I have is the one that is purely devoted to the rankings, so I assume it is the premium one.

For best MBA programs, I use Business Week, Which I think is more accurate. According to Business Week's historic rankings, #1 is Kellogg, #2 is Wharton, #3 in Harvard and #4 is Chicago.

For best Law schools, I use the combination of the Princeton Review, the Insider's Guide, Gourman and the US News and World Report.

By Slipper2002 (Slipper2002) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:03 am: Edit

Its BS to choose rankings one 'respects more.' B-school rankings (for which there are 5 major ranking systems) are an example of this.

For example, Stanford is an unbelievably good B-school, usually rated in the top 3 (with the exception of the WSJ ranking, which everyone knows are flawed). Stanford is always top 3 USNEWS> Chicago and Columbia are not apart enough to be 4 and 7, looking at the four most well-known rankings, Columbia is #2 Forbes, #3 Financial Times, #6 USNEWS, #7 BW. Overall around #5, the same goes for chicago...

By Alexandre (Alexandre) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 10:23 am: Edit

Slipper, Stanford is a fine Business school, but so are many others. For most disciplines, the US News and World Report is the only source of ranking. For Business School, you have Business Week, which in my opinion is a more accurate representation of what Corporate America thinks of the various MBA programs. According to Business Week, Stanford is not a top 3 MBA program. Kellogg, Wharton and Harvard are the top 3. So obviously, Stanford is not "usually" ranked among the top 3.

The Wall Street Journal and the Financial Times are the weakest rankings, but are not to be disregarded.

By Cornellgrad02 (Cornellgrad02) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 01:24 pm: Edit

just my 2 cents again, but I think it's really pathetic when people talk about how budget cuts will affect UC's and other public school's facilities...have you people actually ever even seen the infrastructure at the top UC's (berkeley, LA, SD)??? Honestly, they can only be rivaled by a few private schools with huge endowments...

... If I wanted my kids to have the most opportunity (not necessarily attention--I'm referring to course offerings, facilites and a diverse student body and excellent faculty) I would have them look into these colleges (which I personally think are the tops in the country)

...in no order:

Harvard
UC Berkeley
Chicago
Princeton
Yale
Cornell
MIT
Stanford

just below these (from a prestige ranking I suppose) would be handfull of publics and a few privates:

Michigan
Wisconsin
Illinois
Texas Austin
UCLA
UC San Diego
Washington
Columbia
Duke
Wash U
Rice

I really think students (but particularly highschool students who don't know any better) sell the publics short. These schools have phenomenal opportunities for students and offer more breadth and depth than 95% of most universities out there. I could understand an argument against big universities versus LAC's, but this whole public versus private business has been so brutally distorted on college confidential, mostly by people who know nothing about what either of these two types of institutions (publics and privates) offer.

alright...again, I'm ranting.

just my 2 cents (I guess I said that above too).

cheers,
cornellgrad02

By Cornellgrad02 (Cornellgrad02) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 01:26 pm: Edit

just a p.s. before anyone flames me...

...I love LAC's but know little to nothing about them except for Pomona and the claremont schools...I think for the right type of person, these are great places to spend 4 years (or 5 or 6!). Anyway, I was simply sticking to what I know best...big research universities...

ok, thanks
cornellgrad02

By Cornellgrad02 (Cornellgrad02) on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 01:29 pm: Edit

just a p.s. before anyone flames me...

...I love LAC's but know little to nothing about them except for Pomona and the claremont schools...I think for the right type of person, these are great places to spend 4 years (or 5 or 6!). Anyway, I was simply sticking to what I know best...big research universities...

ok, thanks
cornellgrad02

By Rtkysg (Rtkysg) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 12:24 am: Edit

you forget Caltech, and since when Columbia & Duke are below Cornell, Berkeley, Chicago in prestige ?

By Kk19131 (Kk19131) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 12:33 am: Edit

"you forget Caltech, and since when Columbia & Duke are below Cornell, Berkeley, Chicago in prestige ?"

-Prestige is in the eye of the beholder.

By Rtkysg (Rtkysg) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 01:02 am: Edit

"Prestige is in the eye of the beholder. "

Yeah, I think University of Florida is more prestigious than Harvard LOL
Often there're certain reasonings and common view on prestige, and I'm interested in his view, may I?

By Cornellgrad02 (Cornellgrad02) on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 03:19 pm: Edit

I misspoke....I only added the note on prestige because so many students on this site are absolutely obsessed with prestige. I, in fact, hold all those schools on my list in equally high esteem. I think if you asked any academic, they would tell you that berkeley, cornell, duke, columbia etc. are all in a league of there own and that arguing over which is "better" or more "prestigous" is like arguing about what shade of blue the sky is. Lastly, my message was on balanced universities, and Caltech--while a phenomenal school in the disciplines it offers--is not a balanced schoo. MIT, however, contrary to popular belief has a number of phenomenal departments in the social sciences.

Again, when we're talking prestige or which school is better with any of the top 15 or so schools, its semantics.

cheers,
cornellgrad02


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