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Does anyone else feel like this whole college application progress generally negates the fundamental aspects of education? It just seems to me that every time I talk to someone at school the inevitable question is "what schools are you applying to?" followed by a wide-eyed look if I am competing for admission to the same school and then an accusatory request for my stats. In my opinion the system is inherently corrupt and is putting undue stress on the students of America. College admissions is no longer based on intelligence as much as it is on who can manage to work the system most effectively. It seems that somewhere along the line someone convinced the majority of students that our fate rests in the hands of admissions officers, and their hands alone. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I wish there were some way that students would not antagonize one another over someting that, in reality, does not matter as much as administrators would lead us to believe. We have forsaken arts and the ability to take classes that interest us for classes that we feel will look good to colleges, and that is a shame. Does anyone else feel like this, or am I alone? Thanks.

By Funnymonkey (Funnymonkey) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 12:27 am: Edit

Yes

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 12:59 am: Edit

Amen!

By Maritimee (Maritimee) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 01:08 am: Edit

I do. There's one factor that you've left out of your argument, though: employers are far more willing to recruit ivy/other big name schools grads than people from state schools. This situation creates the good college = success in life equation, which in turn leads to the situation you've described.

By Autodidact (Autodidact) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:21 pm: Edit

While I agree with the conventional logic of Maritimee's statement, the new line of thought is that highly motivated individuals will be successful regardless of $$$ spent, and may be indulging in overkill by attending big names. In this line of thought it is the quality of the student...not the school...the cream always rises to the top scenario. Many real life examples support this theory. Head hunting is becoming more aggressive, and uni's are getting better at shopping their graduates' skills.

By Cornellian07 (Cornellian07) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:43 pm: Edit

I agree that it's terrible that people are so competitive with one another, but I have to say, can you come up with a better way of doing college admissions so that people won't be so brutal? It's inevitable that there will be competitive, manipulative, conniving people out there. You just have to work hard, play nice, and you will get your rewards in the end.

By Overrated (Overrated) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 10:51 pm: Edit

Cornellian, that is a very good point that it would be hard to come up with a more effective strategy for schools to use, naturally they can't spend a week with every student to make sure that they aren't just some college application whore with no real intelligence. I just wish the admissions process would not force students to forsake learning for grades or friendship for school. I brought this topic up with my dad, who attended UC Berkeley for law school, and he told me that some of the people there were the most self-serving, conniving SOBs in the world. I guess that, at least at that time, all first year law students had identical schedules. Obviously this was before the age of computerized legal research, so all prevalent cases had to be looked up in books. He said it was common to go look for a case only to find it had been exacto-knifed out of the books by some psychotic, statistics-obsessed tool who was worried about the fact that his classes were the same as everyone elses. Civilization as a whole would get so much further if people would just abandon their egos and help each other out, and the competition for grades prevents students from doing so.

On a side note, is anyone here attending Harvard for summer school this year?

By Laurenp (Laurenp) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 11:23 pm: Edit

Well, I agree with your point about general college admissions, but I really feel its possible to get into your first-choice college without reverting to psychotic behavior. of course, my first choice was Dartmouth, not by a long shot the most competitive of the ivies. So, i probably had no shot at HYP, but i'm pretty happy that i took classes that were interesting and challenging, did ECs that really interested me, and didn't worry about what other people's grades were. But, I do know a girl who was a total psycho and had no friends for 4 years, but is now thrilled about her acceptance to harvard. I guess it just depends on your priorities

By Rowan (Rowan) on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 01:57 am: Edit

I do believe that in the process of applying to college, many students lose sight of why college is there in the first place: a place of higher learning. Education is always what you make of it -- isn't that what the Ivies encourage you to think about your high school experience? -- and a determined individual (this "cream" that always "rises to the top," if you will) will succeed however s/he must. Under that concept, the Ivies and other highly prestigious institutions become grease rather than gear, which is personally how I believe it ought to be.

By Sallyr (Sallyr) on Saturday, March 29, 2003 - 08:59 am: Edit

Another thought to keep in mind before going too crazy over college admission is that, with so many students heading to grad school these days (either straight out of college or eventually) and with so many job fields requiring it, sometimes one has a better shot at the top grad programs after compiling a top record at a lesser-known undergrad institution. Sure, Penn Law and Harvard Med adcoms will smile upon their own who aced their undergrad classes, but grad schools--just like undergrad colleges--have the ol' "D" word in mind ("diversity") and that means that they don't want to fill entire classes with only alums from the Ivies or equivalents.

Thus, some high school students are better served by aiming for colleges where they can stand out and make a mark and snare the juiciest internships and research assistantships and then parlay those achievements into an array of fat letters from graduate schools. It depends a lot on the student's goals and priorities and learning style.