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CONTINUED FROM PART 20.

Before posting, please take a look at the FAQ, as it gives a brief summary of some of the topics that come up a lot on this thread, the big list of schools, and help for searching for a particular topic within the thread.

Shauna

By Nytheatermom (Nytheatermom) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 07:15 pm: Edit

1songlory:

Finally someone asking about Interlochen! I have watched this board wondering why there were so few mentions. As I write, my daughter (a jr like you) is at Interlochen. We live in NY, but it was well worth going so far away.

She went to Interlochen last year as an intermediate for 4 weeks in Musical Theater. She was invited back as Musical Theater Intermediate, but to accept the invite you have to be in the same division. Due to her age, she had to reaudition to go this year in the high school division. There is the rub. The program is extraordinarily competitive... They accepted so few MT majors (30??), from hundreds upon hundreds of applications, I'm told. And the acceptances included people who had been in the HS MT program last year,(invited back) so therefore there were even fewer openings. (There is a separate repetory theater program, equally as competitive.)

So people like my daughter, at first disappointed, accepted a counter offer from Interlochen: become a general studies major and take 5 electives instead of a set MT program with 2 electives. So she is taking:
1. operetta
2. ballet for non dance majors
3. beginning jazz piano
4. Chorus
5. Music theory.

She also is taking private voice lessons.

Talk about training to become the Triple Threat we talk about!

Apart from not being in the MT musical, her main disappointment was that the Shakespeare class is limited to theater majors. But by all accounts from her, the program has so far been wonderful.

Now add that into a program on 2000 acres between 2 lakes with extraordinarily talented musicians, artists and writers. For many, it it is a life-changing experience (paricularly, I think, for the classical musicians who in their normal HS life have few peers and not many people who really understand their music).

Also, the campus is the focus of a summer festival of the arts which draws thousands of people from the Michigan area to see performances ranging from top classical performers to broadway stars. All this in a gorgeous amphitheater build into a mountain in from of a lake. The campers, of course, go to many of these concerts. At other times they are going to each other's performances or performing themselves.

But here are a couple of points to consider, beyond how selective the MT program is when you think about Interlochen for next summer:

1. the 8-week program is going to become 6 weeks due to so many schools having different starting and endng dates.

2. operetta supposedly will not be continued because the teacher who has done it for years is retiring

3. From the point of view of training, I believe Interlochen is second to none. But the question for you (and for my daughter) might be do you make "better connections" by going to the MT summer program at a school you might attend?

4.FYI Univerisity of Michigan has a relationship with Interlochen, but apparently will be launching some kind of new MT program (not just for Michigan residents) at Ann Arbor next summer. Presently, as I understand it, UMich does MT at interlochen for two weeks as part of its all-state program and just for Michigan residents.

If you want to know more about interlochen, go to http://www.interlochen.org
and click on the camp link. (for some reason you have to include the www on this website).

All in all, a fabulous place and when the summer is over and my daughter is home, she would be more than happy to provide you with specific info.

Hope this helps you and others

By Mtfan (Mtfan) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 07:21 pm: Edit

Dramamama, since your D has gone through this twice, could you make a list of the schools she auditioned for the first time, and schools she auditioned for the second time around? Thanks

Also does anyone know if you have to audition for the MT program at U of Minnesota-Duluth

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 07:44 pm: Edit

Mtfan,

Here is the list from last year:

University of Miami-- waitlisted
Carnegie Mellon
CCM
Syracuse
Ithaca
Boston Coservatory
Emerson- waitlisted
Florida State
University of Michigan

Here is the list from this year:

Elon - withdrew app before audition
Westminster Choir College (part of Rider) accepted
University of Arizon- waitlisted
University of Hartford- accepted
University of Miami
Drake University (non-audition) accepted
Emerson University- accepted
SUNY Buffalo- accepted
SUNY Fredonia
NYU
Kent State- withdraw app before audition
Point Park- accepted but only for straight acting
University of the Arts- accepted
Shenandoah- accepted

As you can see, we broadened our search and reached out to some of the schools that were not generally considered to be in the very top.
Hope this information is useful to you.

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 07:44 pm: Edit

Find1songglory:

I also posted this on thread #20, but, then realized we were now on #21...

I have heard great things about Interlochen from people who actuallly attended their summer programs but I have no first hand knowledge. However, My Ddid go to CMU's summer program as did Theatremom's D.

My daughter definately honed her skills in voice and acting, but, as for dancing - which is her strong point - she probably did not learn any thing new - however, dancers always need to keep going to class especially ballet dancers...

Anyway, I personally feel that CMU prepares the MT hopeful for auditioning for the college audition process which is something you can't get easily from any other source. You can always improve your skills through your voice, dance teachers, etc. But, the audition process practice is invaluable.

As a side note, I was hopeful about CMU (as a college) for my daughter for a brief time - however, when you go through the audition process and realize that some schools take 2-5% of their auditionees - its a pretty slim chance indeed. And CMU takes only 5-7 MT girls (am I correct on this one?) and that is pretty slim. Plus, their reputation is acting first - which is not what my daughter had alot of experience in...

My D loved Gary Kline, the MT music teacher. He was/is great and is on their regular falculty. In fact he was the sole reason she wanted to go there for awhile...

Anyway, I recommend CMU's summer program for it's thorough preparation for the audition process - and yes, the student will improve in their acting, voice and dance as well - not to mention friends made!

The only thing that probably hurt my daughter, that she picked up from CMU's summer program, was that "Gimme Gimme" was not yet out in circulation or published books yet. She was so excited about singing it after she heard one of Gary's MT students singing it that she asked Gary if she could use it for her "audition". It worked great for lots of auditions and performances this past year, however, in using that song I believe she broke one of those cardinal rules of auditiong: Don't use a song from a current Broadway hit."

So, even tho' she got into CAP 21 at NYU, I think her using that song for all her MT college audition was too overused this past year to work in her favor.

-Mtheatremom

By Find1songglory (Find1songglory) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Mtheatremom-
Thanks so much for the info/opinions about CMU. My forte is acting and I have much more experience in rep. theatre than in MT (but I love both!). However, in most musicals I have been in I have been the lead or a featured dancer/singer, etc. So I am also trying to decide whether I would have a better chance at a BFA acting or BFA MT...but luckily I still have over a year to really decide. thats awesome that Gary Kline teaches at the summer program...your daughter's right, just the fact that he's teaching would be reason enough to go. Are basically all the teachers at the program professors at CMU?
Nytheatermom-
THANKS for the info on Interlochen. I have been looking into it for a while now and have a friend who applied to go there between his jr/sr year w/o really knowing much about it, was accepted, got the lead, and is now at CMU for MT...however my friend is a guy, so that makes a huge difference. for us girls its more difficult unfortunately.
That's REALLY interesting that they're making it only 6 weeks next summer (does that mean it will be cheaper??! :-D) and that they arent doing the operetta...bummer.
If anyone else has any opinions about the question of going to a summer program primarily for training vs. making connections for college/career in MT, they would be greatly appreciated!

By Mtfan (Mtfan) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Thanks Dramamama. Could we make a list of Schools with non-audition MT degress that could go on the FAQ?

By Nytheatermom (Nytheatermom) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 09:02 pm: Edit

Regarding boys and Interlochen, yes, definitely easier for the boys to get into the MT program. This is not to say that those boys accepted are not very talented... It's just that there are so many fewer applications from males.

Also, application to Interlochen is done just by sumbitting a video... 2 16-bar songs, a monologue... nothing in person... I suspect that there comes a point that there are so many qualfied people that it becomes very arbitrary.

Interlochen as six-weeks less expensive? presumably, but still high.

By the way, another great thing about Interlochen is that it attracts people from all over the world

By Gkoukla (Gkoukla) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 09:48 pm: Edit

UMICH has had an All-State Musical Theatre camp at Interlochen for the past 20 years. This year, for the first time, they are having their "camp" on the UMICH campus. I do not know why they switched venues. My D went to the All-State camp for the past four years up at Interlochen and loved every second of it. Brent Wagner is the main draw with fabulous dance instructors, and a fabulous pianist. He did accept many from out of state, but mainly the kids came from Michigan. Auditions can be in person or by video tape. Mr. Wagner likes to accept around 20, 10 men and ten women, much like for his college classes. It was very competitive, but extremely worth the time and money.

I have heard that this year the requirements have been a bit different. This year Mr. Wagner wanted to see GPA's and essays had to be written. I believe his reasoning is that UMICH will not grant an audition for MT or in the school of music when a student does not have the minimum GPA and test scores to back them up. Perhaps he didn't want to get the hopes up of many talented kids who didn't have the grades. Just my thought.

All State is definitely worth the time. Even for out of staters.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 10:01 pm: Edit

As Mtheatermom said, my D also attended CMU last summer and as we have stated numerous times on this thread, we believe it was worth every penny. My daughter has a very similar skill set to Mtheatermom's D - both strong dancers, strong singers, with less experience as actors. I believe that while my D got great help in honing her audition skills, she also got great training in how to approach a role and how to really act her songs. She also felt the dance training was sufficient to keep her in shape but not reveletory. The one weakness in the regular CMU MT program is the dance training. Not good.

With regard to the faculty, my daughter did not have Gary Kline as her MT teacher (all disciplines have two faculty members - some regular CMU faculty, some hired for the summer, many of whom return year after year). While she was initially disappointed not to have Kline, she actually really liked her MT teacher quite a bit - he is a regular faculty member in the School of Music. Her audition teacher (regular FT CMU faculty) was spectacular (she still thinks he's a God!!) and she learned an enormous amount from her Acting teacher (summer hire).

With regard to contacts you can potentially make, there is probably always a benefit in this business to having/making contacts but I can tell you that only one student from last summer's MT class was offered admission to CMU this year and he was accepted as a result of his work over the summer AND the fact that he is enormously talented. He already had an agent and was working in NYC. They accepted him last August shortly after the program ended. I do know that for the second year in a row, CMU accepted more boys than girls into the MT program. I think it was 4 girls and 6 boys. In my daughter's class at UM there are several kids who either went to Interlochen or participated in the Michigan All States program that was mentioned above - they therefore had previous exposure to Brent Wagner, the UM MT Chair. The question then becomes, was it the contact with him or the talent that got them admitted to Interlochen's program or the All States program in the first place that might have given them the edge. I don't know that anyone can know the answer to that question.

In summary, I think that these intensive summer programs are highly beneficial in and of themselves, but I also believe that there are many kids who are accepted to prestigious programs without this training or the contacts the training affords.

By Gkoukla (Gkoukla) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 10:26 pm: Edit

I think the early contact with Brent Wagner can help a student or hurt a student when it comes time for the college admission.

I know several students who felt they had an "in" with Mr. Wagner just because they attended his camps year after year. In fact, they did not get accepted to his college program. Rumor has it that they did not show Mr. Wagner much improvement in the years they attended camp. We'll never really know for sure.

Is it true that only two MT students from the state of Michigan were accepted this year into UMICH, Theatremom? Maybe you know that answer.

By Noccadad (Noccadad) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 11:32 pm: Edit

As CMU summer program has been part of the recent discussion here, just wanted to share that after the first week 6/27-7/2 just heard from daughter who will be a junior in the fall who stated that it has been truly amazing although extremely busy. Seems to be superior team building within the group although A LOT of students for MT. Will keep the group informed of her progress and as importantly her emotional well being.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 12:25 am: Edit

Goukla,

I don't have a total headcount because a few kids could not make orientation. Of the UMich MT 14 boys and 10 girls I have state info on 21. (The parents all exchanged information)

Missouri - 3
North Carolina - 3
California - 2
Ohio - 2
Colorado - 1
Florida - 1
Illinois - 1
Kansas - 1
Maryland - 1
Michigan - 1
Montana - 1
Pennsylvania - 1
Tennessee - 1
Washington State - 1
Wisconsin - 1

Quite an assortment! At the very least, these kids will have places to visit and stay all over the US for the next four years. The good news is you don't have to move to Michigan if you want to go to UMich as an MT.

BTW, the scuttlebut at CMU last summer was that being in Gary Kline's MT class could be very good or very bad - the obvious: very good if you impressed him (you still had a CHANCE at the real audition) or very bad (don't waste the application/audition fees if you p***ed him off....)

Noccadad:
Your daughter's CMU first week reactions sound familiar. I think last summer there were around 75 MT's. But because of multiple sections, my D reports that classes were always small and she felt she got LOTS of personal attention.

By Dancingqueen138 (Dancingqueen138) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 10:13 am: Edit

Hey!
I have been reading this tread for a while and am so grateful for all of the information you all have because I have not been able to find better info anywhere else. Like everybody else, my dream is to do MT on Broadway. I am 16 and am a rising senior in high school. I have been dancing for 14 years and have taken voice for 2. I am considering Fordham, AMDA, Marymount Manhattan, U. of Mich., Columbia College Chicago, and Bo Co. Does anybody have any info about how hard it is to get into these programs?

By Gkoukla (Gkoukla) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 11:42 am: Edit

Theatremom, Wow! You parents are right on the ball! I think that my D is the second person from Michigan accepted. She went only to the vocal performance orientation. She couldn't make both. It's very interesting to see only two from Michigan, with Interlochen being such a draw to the program. Perhaps others from Interlochen were accepted, but came from different states. I know that was the case in other years. Like you said, it can be good or bad going to these summer camps and workshops. I look forward to meeting you and the other MT parents someday soon.

By Taxguy (Taxguy) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 11:45 am: Edit

You might want to consider Carnegie Melon. They have one of the top theater arts majors in the US> They have a large number of successful and famous folks who went there.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 11:52 am: Edit

RE: Classic monologues

What does this mean? What time period? or does it mean different things to different schools?

By Mary1019 (Mary1019) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 11:56 am: Edit

Would anyone offer an opinion on the quality of Blue Lake Fine Arts Camp, also in Michigan? My D attended one session and she enjoyed the music, but I'm not so sure she got much out of it.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Just put daughter on a plane for camp....2 and a half weeks at OCU. Will keep you posted on her impressions!

By Mtfan (Mtfan) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 07:43 pm: Edit

Has anyone heard anything about the MT degree at Wichita State University? I was just looking at the course list and it looks incredably balanced in all three areas, which is a proablem with a lot of schools i've lookde at.

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 08:10 am: Edit

Mtfan,

We visited Wichita last fall. Great friendly campus. If you look way back I give a report on it in maybe 4 or 5. It is a young program but the rehearsal we saw was very impressive. We were told that many of the students get a chance to be seen by Broadway agents when they find parts at Wichita's Theatre Festival each summer.

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 03:25 pm: Edit

AS PROMISED, HERE IS A REPORT OF THE 2ND WEEK FROM CMU SUMMER PROGRAM. D IS VERY, VERY BUSY WITH WORK (READING HAMLET, RESEARCHING AND MEMORIZING MONOLUGUES, READING AUDITION BOOK, LEARNING SONGS, PLAYWRITING, AND ON IT GOES.) SHE WILL BE FORCED TO LEARN TIME MANAGEMENT WHICH SHE WAS NEVER VERY GOOD AT (A REAL PROCRASTINATOR) UNLESS IS WAS A SONG OR A DANCE. HOWEVER, HER SPIRITS ARE REALLY HIGH, AND AS THOSE WHO SAID LAST YEAR, THEY ARE DOING WHAT THEY LOVE, SO THE WORK DOESN'T SEEM LIKE WORK. SHE SAID SHE HAS A STUDY GROUP SO THEY READ THE PLAYS TOGETHER BY EACH TAKING A PART WHICH SHE SAID WAS LOTS OF FUN. THEN THEY DISCUSS IT.

THEY SAID AT THE ORIENTATION THAT THEY WILL COME BACK DIFFERENT PEOPLE, AND I CAN SEE ALREADY THAT WILL BE TRUE! A FEW DAYS AGO SHE CALLED ME LAUGHING HYSTERICALLY BECAUSE HER AND HER FRIEND WERE IN TAKING A SHOWER (A GROUP EFFORT I SUPPOSE) AND THEY STARTING SINGING. PRETTY SOON A FEW MORE GIRLS CAME IN THE BATHROOM AND STARTING SINGING WITH THEM, WHICH TURNED INTO PRACTICALLY HER WHOLE FLOOR ENDING UP IN THE BATHROOM SINGING RAGTIME, ET AL.

OVER THE WEEKEND THEY TOOK THEM ON A COUPLE OF FIELD TRIPS TO AN AMUSEMENT PARK WHERE THEY WERE SO HOT THEY ENDED UP DOING WATER BALLET IN THE FOUNTAIN AND LITTLE KIDS CAME UP TO THEM TO HAVE THEIR PICTURES TAKEN WITH THEM THINKING THEY WERE WORKING THERE. THEY ALSO HAD A DANCE FOR THEM ON JULY 4TH, BUT SHE SAID IT WAS UNGODLY HOT IN THERE SO THEY DIDN'T STAY. SHE ALSO WENT SHOPPING DOWN AT THE WATERFRONT AND UNFORTUNATELY FOR ME FOUND AN ABERCOMBIE STORE AND A P.F. CHANGS. ON MONDAY FOR THE HOLIDAY, THEY TOOK THEM TO SEE SPIDERMAN 2. (MAYBE THIS IS WHY SHE WAS UP SO LATE LAST NIGHT DOING HOMEWORK). AS A RESULT SHE SAID SHE DID HORRIBLY ON HER MONOLOGUE THIS MORNING (SHE IS A SINGER FIRST, DANCER 2ND, ACTOR 3RD). ACTING IS WHERE SHE NEEDS THE MOST WORK AND I THINK SHE WILL DEFINITELY GET HELP HERE.
LAST NIGHT HER ROOMMATE HAD AN ASTHMA ATTACK AND HER MOM IS TRYING TO GET HER AN AIR CONDITIONING UNIT (FOR HEALTH REASONS.) THIS WOULD BE A TRUE BENEFIT AS I THINK THE HEAT KEEPS THEM FROM GETTING A GOOD NIGHTS SLEEP.

SHE SOUNDS VERY HAPPY AND I WILL KEEP YOU ALL POSTED. BY THE WAY, SHE LOVES HER SINGING TEACHER WHO IS ALSO HER VOICE COACH (WILL GET THE NAME FOR NEXT TIME). SHE IS TAPE RECORDING THEM SO SHE CAN LEARN NEW SONGS, SO FOR NEXT YEAR'S FOLKS, DEFINITELY PACK A LITTLE TAPE RECORDER.

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 04:14 pm: Edit

Well, I feel very accomplished. Over the past week I've read this entire Musical Theatre thread. Seemed longer than War and Peace, but so very informative. Thank you, everyone, for all your advice and support to each other. It's great to read. I have a question which may best be answered by Monkey (Penn) and Catie531 (U of Miami). Importance of SAT's vs. talent for these two, particular schools? I realize NYU is 50/50 and CMU is more 90/10 (talent/SAT). How do Penn and Miami choose their MT's?

By Monkey (Monkey) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 04:39 pm: Edit

Lynnm,
Wow! Congrats on reading this entire epistle! When I first found this thread it had only two parts and I thought it was a lot of information at that! But I wish I had discovered it earlier as it truly is a wealth of valuable stuff. Everyone is amazingly generous and helpful and I also hope to be able to answer any questions you might have regarding Penn State's MT program.

A student must first be accepted to Penn State University before an offer can be made to join the MT program. About a third of credits earned in the BFA Musical Theatre program are gen eds. I think it is a combination of SAT scores and high school academic record that are considered for admission to PSU. Once a student has been admitted to the university, then it is all about talent for admission to the MT program ( of course ). This year there are 18 or 19 students entering as freshmen, the majority being males. The faculty wants to see a strong work ethic as well as talent, and although a kid doesn't have to top in their high school graduating class, I know they look positively on students that have a solid academic record.
Feel free to ask anything else as it comes up.

By Alanz (Alanz) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 06:07 pm: Edit

Lynnm,

There will be a quiz < s >

Welcome to the forum.

By Lynnm (Lynnm) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 06:31 pm: Edit

Thanks for the welcome. I appreciate your input. I hadn't even considered Penn State until I came upon the praise of Monkey and others on this thread. My daughter's SAT's are just 1000, and I'm not sure if that would be enough. It does sound like a welcoming program, though. As far as a quiz....sometimes I read the threads for 4-5 hours at a time, so I can't say I'd actually pass that!!!!

By Monkey (Monkey) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 06:41 pm: Edit

Lynnm,
I am not really sure what the cut off for SAT's
( if there is one ) is for Penn State, but although it is a huge univesity, they do consider other factors: high school academics, extra-curriculars,etc. I would strongly suggest you contact the MT dept. chair at Penn State. I think you'll find it a most welcoming program and well worth a good look. As I've said before on this thread, it is one of the newer programs ( 10 years old ) and really becoming better known each year. This was the first year they participated, though informally, in the unified auditions and many of the incoming freshman were made offers through that venue. Next year they will formally participate and I sense will be better established with the well known programs. We couldn't be happier with the training, opportunities, and overall education my daughter has received so far.

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Lynnm,
I don't necessarily think that SATs are very important for theater. Remember this though: Good grades and high SAT scores will give you an edge over your competition. There's nothing worse than a dumb actor. Say a school was trying to decide between you and someone else and you were both equally talented. But, you had the higher grades and test scores - most likely, they'd go with you.
It's always a good thing to keep in my mind. Achieving good grades shows that you are a hard worker and an actor has to be a hard worker. Actors also need to know everything. So learn as much as you can. Be a sponge... sponges are good! ;)

By Shauna (Shauna) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Lynnm--

I think that reading this entire thread through for the first time is akin to a seminary student getting all the way through the Bible. Way to go! :-D

Shauna

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 10:24 pm: Edit

I'm so frustrated and feel like venting (sorry!). If one more person tries to convince my daughter to get a cruise job after high school instead of going to college, I'm going to scream. Do other people go through this? One adult after another talks to her about this. She wants to go to college, so it's really irritating her--and of course it's irritating me because I want her to go to college!

By Mtmomtok (Mtmomtok) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 10:37 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,

Don't scream (it's not good for the voice). Someone suggested my D become a pharmacist because "they make a lot of money." Then she can pursue this "crazy, unrealistic" dream of hers. You've got to do what you want. In the end you'll have no regrets.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 11:12 pm: Edit

Mtmommy

I wish I could tell you it gets better AFTER they are accepted to a wonderful program.....

My D now reports that when she's asked where she's going to college and she says she's going to the University of Michigan they smile and say "Wow, what a great school!" Then when they ask what she's going to study and she tells them she's pursuing a BFA in Musical Theatre she says most of them appear dumbstruck and look at her as if she's just told them she's running off to join the circus.

Sigh.....

By Lexasmomkj (Lexasmomkj) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 08:15 am: Edit

Congratulations Lynnm,

I, too, am relatively new to this site and over the past week or two read each and every entry on every thread. It was arduous, but well worth it as this site has been a godsend to me as I preprare to send my daughter out into the wonderful world of college MT auditions this fall. Thank you to everyone who has posted. I look forward to reading/learning more and for the support I have seen on this board time and time again when the going gets tough.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 09:02 am: Edit

Mtmommy and Theatremom,
It's true that it is difficult for most people to understand and support the path our kids have chosen. Believe me, there are still times when I can work myself into a tizzy thinking about the uncertainties of this choice! But anyone that knows my child gets it pretty quickly, as her passion and drive to pursue this has been her focus for so long.As parents we know they must try their wings, if only to never have to live their adult years wondering about what if.... I also believe that the determination, work ethic, discipline, and risk taking this field requires are all qualities that will be valuable in just about any path one takes. So let's give ourselves "snaps" for being loving, supportive parents that are saying to our kids: You go for it! Whatever the end result, the journey will be amazing!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 09:25 am: Edit

Great post, Monkey and I agree with it all too. My child has not gotten those comments that others are talking about, though I understand how that can readily happen. Where I live, maybe cause it is a small community, everyone knows my daughter has been very passionate and involved in musical theater so nobody would be surprised that she is going to pursue it. In fact, someone here mentioned the circus and one of her peers is actually going to a college for circus and nobody would be surprised about that either as he has been involved in circus activities for quite some time.

I also agree that all the parents here can pat themselves on the back for supporting their child's pursuit of their dreams and passion and not saying, "go for something practical" or not saying "you can't make it with the odds in this field". It is obvious to me cause we are all on this forum, that we are behind our kids' drive to pursue their love of theater, as well as their talents. I cannot imagine doing anything but that but I know some parents do tend to try to persuade their kids to pursue different things or more practical things. We have always just followed our kids' leads as far as what they wanted to be involved in. I can see most on here are of that way of thinking. I also agree that if a person does not go for what they truly love, they will come to always wonder what if. I think they should all go for it. They have nothing to lose. Their other skills will not go away.

In fact, I think no matter if they make it or not in this field, they will still be getting a college education. Also, I totally agree with Monkey that many of the skills and qualities and work ethic that theater entails so easily carry over and benefit them in other areas of life or in other career pursuits. Also, many of our kids have other talents and skills and they don't just disappear cause they happen to be pursuing a life on the stage. For instance, just talking of my kid for a moment, she excels as a writer, so it is not like that is going to go away. As well, I can see her directing and/or choregraphing. I am totally behind her pursuing a career on stage. But I am not that worried, even though it is hard to make it, cause she always can do these other related things or anything else if at such time she needs or wants to. It is not like it is the stage or nothing. For now, one must go for their love and what happens happens and it is not like they could never do anything else. One thing might lead to another. And their knowledge, skills, and other talents will never go away. And they will have a college degree besides. You never know what our kids may be doing 10 years from now. I know what mine (and yours) want to do and hopefully that will happen but if it does not end up with a successful stage career, it is not like there will be nothing else they can ever do.

Besides, not that I would ever want to, but even if I was one of those parents who did, I could never keep this one down....I mean whether we liked it or not, she would go for a life in theater...if you want it real bad, like she does, nothing would stop you. Again, I don't wish to stop her at all but just saying even if she had discouraging parents or neighbors, she would still go for it. However, in our case, not only we, but anyone we know seems to be behind her in this area and she has not yet gotten any comments contrary to that.

Well, I am off to see her shows this weekend in her summer program...a weekend of theater going round the clock for me. As one acquaintance told me yesterday when she knew I was going to be watching about six productions this weekend, good thing you enjoy theater and I thought, yeah, she could be into something I dislike such as heavy metal or boxing! and I would have to watch and support it and luckily we do enjoy watching theater!
Susan

By Leverite (Leverite) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 10:07 am: Edit

Hi, I'm new to this site. This is great. Just posted my first entry on the regular theatre thread yesterday. I've been following this thread even though my son has decided to go the straight theatre route. The way you folks support each other is wonderful.
Thought you might find this site helpful. It covers some of the things you've been discussing.
http://www.uncwil.edu/stuaff/career/Majors/theater.htm

By Noccadad (Noccadad) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 11:08 am: Edit

Regarding people's reaction regarding arts training versus a more occupationally based education that pays well
What are the other options for young people today if not to pursue their passion or what makes them happy and isn't that what we all worked to help provide for them and really what our parents worked for to allow us to help do for our kids.

They could always be a geologist, engineer, scientist, or such and make alot of money for awhile with a company like Royal Dutch Shell, Tyco, Archer Daniels Midland or ENRON and then at 40 or 50 feel like an idiot when they hear about how their corporation has handled it's finances, ethics, integrity, and most frightening their pension and health benefits, if they still exist.

I strongly agree with many people here and outside of this group and that is that if you do something you love and you learn hard work and personal discipline (definitely part of the arts training these kids pursue) you will not regret abandoning what you love for the almighty corporate job and perceived security with a steady paycheck (especially if it falls apart) Moreover,through a good education of any sort (especially college in any course of study or as a plumber or electrician) a person's work life and the money will take care of itself if you can only keep yourself from falling prey to the force fed and utterly constant message to be a consumer of stuff in most cases you really may not need and ultimately in a few years give to Good Will.
Sorry! for the diatribe and can you tell I just cleaned my garage!

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 11:20 am: Edit

You are all so sweet to try to make me feel better about people bugging my daughter. I think maybe i wasn't clear, though. These people are all urging her to go for the entertainment business without the college degree. They aren't dissing performing at all. Instead, they are trying to make her feel like college is a waste, that she should take a cruise job (singing and dancing)right out of high school. I don't understand this attitude--and it comes from people with a variety of backgrounds (inc. grad school). We don't really have any second doubts about going after the performing arts degree in college in our house, as long as it includes the college part of it. It's the college part people try to talk her into losing. It's kind of demoralizing for her--like one after another they think she's making a mistake to plan for college. That's what I was wondering if anyone else goes through.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 11:21 am: Edit

Noccadad,

Great post!! Couldn't agree more.

(Will you come clean out my garage? I'll listen to your "diatribes" endlessly in return.);)

By Nydancemom (Nydancemom) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 11:52 am: Edit

Well I have just finished reading all 21 threads of this MT discussion after being introduced to it by a friend a couple of months ago. WOW! What a lot of valuable information! It has already changed my daughter's summer activities. For background, my daughter has just finished her freshman year of high school. She has been involved in local theater since the age of 8 and her love for it has increased every year which I wouldn't have believed was possible since she loved it so much right from the beginning! She is quite a good dancer (much ballet, jazz, and modern as well as more recently tap at another dance school since hers does not tap) and this has been her primary focus and strength, although she is also developing into a pretty good singer and acting is coming along too. She has not had as many opportunities to show her talents in singing and acting since she has really been dancing well since she was quite young, so people around here tend to think of her as a dancer first (gets calls from directors to appear in shows without even auditioning because they want someone who can dance, for example.) She has had many leads in dance productions, not too many in others (was Puck in Midsummer Night's Dream locally last fall- her first non-MT show) She sings in school chorus and has always auditioned for and been in her school's select choruses. She has also auditioned for and been chosen for All-County choruses (both elementary and junior high-which goes to grade 9. This year she was #2 of the sopranos in our county-30 chosen out of about 150 who auditioned) However, we have always assumed that dance would be her ticket to Broadway which is where she desparately wants to be! Now I'm finding out that it seems that no one really cares if you are a dancer! And her dance teacher is very strict and VERY into not missing classes,threatens punishment for missing, you must try to make up any classes you miss, kids even had to sign a contract about this until this last year when I think she gave up realizing that few kids in this day and age would actually be able to live up to the contract. My D always tries to make up classes, but when you are doing MT, there are inevitably conflicts with rehearsals and performances (since she has dance every night M-F.) She is not interested (and does not have the body type- she is only 5 feet tall and has short legs) in pursuing ballet (Thankfully- we are worried enough about MT, but ballet is even less likely to ever allow you to find a job and live independently.) She has made many, many good friends in our area because of having done local theater, and a few are beginning to go to college. A very good friend just finished his first year at NYU in Tisch Cap 21. Another just finished her first year at Marymount Manhattan (in acting with MT minor). Another just graduated from Niagara University in Buffalo. She also has a friend starting at Shenandoah in the fall. All talented kids, interesting to see how they do. Her friend at NYU really loves it and thinks he is getting a great MT education, but also pointed out to our D that he really hadn't researched MT programs very well, just applied ED to NYU specifically for CAP21 because he knew that they had such a great program (we are in upstate NY so know well the allure of being in NYC.) Now, although he says he doesn't regret his decision, there are definitely things he might wish for that NYU doesn't have- especially a real campus. He tells our D that she should do lots of research before she automatically thinks that NYU is the only way to go, which she has been saying fot the last couple of years since she has gotten old enough to even start to think about colleges. He is like a big brother to our D- although she has 3 already- and I think is a little concerned about a tiny little girl making her own way in NYC. lol. Anyway, we have recently REALLY started to discuss college with our D, and are trying to make informed decsions based at least in part on what I've been reading on this discussion! I have learned SO MUCH from all of you guys. My husband will walk by the office and see me on the computer lately and he just laughs and say "On CC again?". I told him it's like reading a good novel - I feel like I've gotten to know the characters --felt so sorry for Shauna who is obviously a very talented girl but UNT sure sounds great with NO DEBT, and for Peggy's daughter with all the rejection, then YAY for the Milliken acaptance, and can't even begin to keep up with Soozievt's schedule-and most of the people I know think I have a crazy life driving my two daughters around- yes I have 2 dancing, singing, acting daughters but one at a time- the younger one is only a grade behind-starting high shchool this fall- but she is increasingly into dance- esp. ballet- and says she wants to be a psychiatrist at this point so I think only one will end up in MT for the long haul. We joke that she can support her sister if the whole MT thing doesn't work out!! Anyway, that's enough for now. Just wanted to sign in and get started on this journey with you all that I feel like I have been on for the last year and a half having read everyone's stories. I will post again soon!

By Overwhelmedmom (Overwhelmedmom) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 01:08 pm: Edit

We are currently looking at PSU. I have a general question, but Monkey - you may have some insight since you're dealing with PSU now. Are there advantages/disadvantages to the timing of the audition? i.e. PSU has auditions from Nov - Feb, but doesn't make offers until all auditions are completed. Since the program is so competitive, are you less likely to get in if you have an early audition? (and they may not have a complete memory of the audition) Do they tape auditions to refresh their memories??

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 01:29 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,

My daughter had the same kind of experience as yours. You should take that as a compliment that she is very talented and that they think she can make it without the training.

My daughter was told she should go straight to NYC and not bother with college. That she could get great training in the city and because she is a young ingenue type he felt she would get work. This was from someone that has been on Broadway in Cats, Starlight Express, and Smokey Joe's Cafe.

Her NYC drama coach also told her he wasn't sure that college was the way to go. His son had worked professionally as a senior in high school and he had made his son go to college. His son was currently an unemployed actor with an MT degree from Syracuse and the two students that his son had worked with his senior year had made it to Broadway.

So for some people that may be the way to go, thankfully, my daughter recognized the importance of a college degree and felt she was not ready to go off on her own. She will be a junior this year at the Hartt School of Music.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 01:54 pm: Edit

Cbs57--Thank you so much for responding. It's great to hear somebody else has had the same pressure from people.

Everyone--A practical question: Has the issue of marketability of the MT degree or it's use as a route to more education (to teach) ever been covered on these threads? I can't recall it being discussed?

For example, with a degree in drama, music, or dance, one can add on grad work or credentialing to teach those subjects in high school or college. But what can happen with an MT degree beyond performing? Just out of curiosity--do the music courses count, for example, toward a music major (added on later as a 2nd bachelor's)?

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 02:24 pm: Edit

This discussion of college or not is an interesting one and one that probably all of us, and all of our children, have at one time or another thought about. Fortunately, my D never for a minute considered not getting a college education. She wants the best possible training, in addition to an academic education, before she starts on her path for the future. I don't think there's an easy answer to the debate. It's true that a lot of performers on Broadway are successful without ever going to college.

My D has several friends who have been in the cast of Rent over the years, a show that has probably been seen by every one of our children, and probably more than once! It's a good one to look at when considering this debate because it's a show that revolutionized musical theatre on Broadway by appealing to a younger audience; it was hugely successful, garnering great reviews and winning the Pulitzer and Tonys; it's a long-running show and has employed hundreds of young actors over the years both in the city and in its many touring companies.

Having said that, very very few of the castmembers have been MT graduates. In the current cast, more than half of them did not even attend college at all. One is a sociology graduate from Columbia, one an accounting graduate from Morehouse, one a Williams grad, one attended Florida International University, one attended CCM but left after one year, one attended Syracuse but did not graduate. The three that actually have related drama degrees went to UMich, Syracuse, and OCU. This is the Broadway cast.

In the non-equity tour of Rent, again, half of the cast did not go to college. There are however, graduates from Tisch, Hart, BoCo, Syracuse, Baldwin Wallace, Kent State, and Albany State. Other schools attended but not graduated from are James Madison, Penn State, and Ithaca. One thing that most of the kids who've been in Rent have in common is that they are musicians and singers outside their theatre work as well. Many have released cds, many do regular gigs in the city at clubs, playing their music and singing. I know my D has found this to be the case with most kids she was at Tisch with this past year, that they're all fairly accomplished musicians in addition to being passionate about acting.

I guess there are many paths to success in this business but, although many make it without a degree, the thing to remember is that having that degree is always going to be a benefit. There is no downside to getting an education. Comparing one child who's successful and who has had no college to someone who's gone to college and is unemployed is kind of silly. Chances are that the child who's been successful would also have been successful had they gone to college. There are too many variables in this business to be able to adequately compare these situations.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 02:38 pm: Edit

Overwhelmedmom,
Actually, I think PSU has rolling admissions and offers have been made to the MT program before all audition dates are completed. My daughter auditioned in February and there were two more audition dates scheduled. She heard just after the final audition date. This year however, they made several offers before they were finished with auditions. I suppose it had something to do with their involvement with the unified auditions as well as wanting to entice those "superstar" kids with scholarship money. There is a healthy amount of money for MT majors at Penn State as well as a multimillion dollar endowment just for seniors to help with auditions and other expenses associated with making the transition to professional life. To answer your question concerning when it is best to audition, I think it is wise to audition early for the program you really want. This gives you a better chance of obtaining scholarship money and can determine an early acceptance with rolling admissions. Also, if you are ill at the earlier time you still have options left. Auditions are not taped to my knowledge, but the faculty does a thorough review after each audition is complete. Powers greater than I know how they can remember all they need to when making those critical acceptance decisions!

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 02:44 pm: Edit

First update on the Summer Camp at OCU from my daughter reveals the following: about 30 high school students in attendance, all are either rising juniors or seniors. 11 are male, 19 female. Mostly from Texas and Oklahoma, but come from as far away as New York. They will be putting together a contemporary version of Cinderella during the 2.5 weeks...and will have master classes with David Herendeen (head of MT at OCU), Brenda Holleman (vocal instructor at OCU) and Florence Birdwell (vocal instructor at OCU and former instructor of Kristen Chenoweth among others). My daughter really likes how Dr Herendeen works with students...we sat in on one of his classes during a spring visit to OCU ... and she is anxious to be under his direction. All is well at camp!

By Monkey (Monkey) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,
It seems that many people who graduate with a BFA in Musical Theatre choose to work right out of school in non-equity tours, cruise ship shows, etc. OR continue their education with an MFA in acting. When considering that a musical theatre degree provides triple threat training, a BFA graduate is likely to get the most out of additional education by concentrating on acting. There is just so much depth and exploration one can achieve by age 21. It probably varies a lot depending on each unique circumstance. Continuing with an advanced degree would also allow for the option of teaching in the field when a person is no longer performing.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 03:17 pm: Edit

My daughter and I both have no reservations about what college could do for her in many different ways. For one thing, people think she's very talented now, but she can certainly keep learning and improving in everything. And there's a ton she, at 16, hasn't even been exposed to (in acting, for example, she hasn't been exposed to different acting methods, advanced methods of learning dialects, etc.) Why skip college when you've only had 2-3 years of voice lessons with one good voice teacher when you can grow as a singer through four years of college?! We both think she has a lot more talent up her sleeve that can come out with good college training. I don't understand why people don't see that.

It's interesting as Monkey says that with an MT degree one could add on with a master's in drama. I suppose that's true for any of the three areas, depending on which area the person chooses to teach.

I am assuming in all this that an MT degree (BFA or even MFA) would not prepare someone to teach MT since it requires expertise in one of the three fields? In other words, are MT professors ever triple threats themselves? This is sort of an lol question.

By Nydancemom (Nydancemom) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 04:09 pm: Edit

Well here I am again and I've only made my first post on here this morning. I have a question that I'm not sure who might have info. Maybe Dr.John? Anyone else? I know there has been some discussion of auditioning/acceptances etc. for minorities, but not much and mostly about African American roles/students. My D happens to be Asian. Korean specifically. Will this make a difference in college decisions? For example, there was some discussion at one point about how a college program is somewhat "casting" itself for 4 years with the students it chooses each year. I know that more and more theater is becoming color blind, but let's get realistic. My daughter has NEVER been considered for "Annie" (a little Asian face in a red wig?), has never bothered to audition for Sound of Music (which is done almost every year by one company or another in our area), etc. Will this be a hindrance in auditioning for colleges? Are there some programs that are more racially diverse than others? Will her height (only 5 feet) be an issue (she isn't too worried as she's done well so far-says "Oh well, I won't be considered for some parts because I'm short/Asian, but sometimes it's been an advantage to be little, and who knows maybe I'll be Kim in "Miss Saigon" or Tuptim in "King and I" some day!"). And of course I know Kristen Chenoweth is only 4'11", but she's blond! lol. I think her Dad and I are just worried that MT is difficult enough and then you have the Asian/short issues which might further limit her castability or might influence her even being considered for certain college programs. Any thoughts? Also thoughts on audition songs given the Asian issue? I know I wouldn't have her sing Summertime for example, but how careful do you really need to be -- there has also been much discussion on the forum about choosing songs which are "appropriate", that is one's which you maybe could be cast to sing. Thanks for any input and for this great site!!!

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 04:25 pm: Edit

Nydancemom--I sent you an email I hope you get because our daughters have the same issues.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 04:48 pm: Edit

I can't answer whether you are at an advantage,disadvantage or up in the air. It seems to me that there are not that many asians going for MT or drama for undergraduate programs. As for casting, I am seeing more and more casting across the racial lines. In "Les Mis", "A Christmas Carol" and a couple of other mainline productions I have seen mixed race families. A blonde Eponine with a black mother, a black Belle in a white family. And it works well. In some shows, it just cannot be done well since the race, the color, the age is major issue in the plot itself; "Annie" would fit that bill. But there are many parts that are race blind. I have seen black Dorotheys (and I don't mean in "The Whiz" and black Juliets and as long it can work, it doesn't seem to faze people. So the specialty roles where the physical type is pretty much determined are not going to be your D's cup of tea, but then she will have the advantage in those roles where being Asian is important. The new musical "Bombay Dreams" stars a young lady who would have been in her second year at Tisch, barely 20 years old, since they wanted Indian in the role.

So, where your D will miss out on the Big Mama and the Blonde Bombshell spots, she will be great for the ingenue. As with so much in this field, I'll bet luck is going to be a major factor. If there happens to be a slew of talented Asians girls auditioning this year or already in the programs, it'll be harder for her. If there is a shortage, she'll have it a bit easier.

By Mtpop (Mtpop) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 05:29 pm: Edit

Musicalthtrmom - Our S is also at the OCU Summer Camp. I'll be reading your posts with much interest, because boys NEVER write or call home!!!

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 05:39 pm: Edit

Jamimom, have you seen Anisha in Bombay Dreams? She's a very talented girl, and yes, you're right, she would have been a sophomore. She's a good example of the MT talent that isn't in CAP21 at Tisch. She's in the Adler studio.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 08:31 pm: Edit

Mtpop...
What fun! Is your son one of the many Oklahomans or Texans attending? I'll keep you posted...my daughter usually gives out quite a bit of info!

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 08:38 pm: Edit

Yes, I have. And my kids know her from Pittsburgh. She was a talented girl back there and then as well.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 09:29 pm: Edit

I do think there are some schools that are more open to accepting or even seeking out minority students for their MT program. I know that Penn State's preference is to have a mixed bag of "types", and don't necessarily go for traditional "perfect looking" people. Of course as Jamimom mentioned, a lot depends on who is in the mix the particular year one auditions, and in the end a school will certainly choose the most talented individuals. The director made the comment to my daughter's freshman class that the girls look more similar than he would have preferred. I didn't necessarily see it but he might have meant most would fit into the ingenue category rather than character actors.

By Peggy (Peggy) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 10:12 pm: Edit

If it helps any, my daughter has never been considered for the "Annie" role either. At 5'10", it would never work! ~ Peg

By Shauna (Shauna) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 10:27 pm: Edit

Nydancemom--

I do think that she is at an advantage, because if she can successfully present herself as an Asian who can play traditionally Asian roles as well as other roles then she will be a huge asset to the department. Like Jamimom said, there is a lot of colorblind casting lately. But more than that, a lot of productions have a "token" Asian, for lack of a better word. For instance, in Movin' Out, there is one Asian girl to play a Vietnam bar girl and in Thoroughly Modern Millie there are Asian ensemble members (both male and female) who cover the two main Asian roles (yes, female ensemble members cover a male role). These performers have to play "Asian" roles as well as more universal roles, and someone who can do this successfully will get much more work than someone who refuses to be typecast as an Asian or someone who will only play a role specifically written for an Asian.

Therefore, I think a lot depends on how your daughter presents herself at her audition. She should choose material that shows that she can play any role offered to her, but at the same time she should not look like she is trying to downplay the fact that she is Asian. I'm not sure if that makes sense; but I think you understand what I mean. :-) If she chooses her monologues and songs carefully, I think she will actually be at quite a great advantage.

Shauna

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 10:27 pm: Edit

Nydancemom,

I think that your D will have an advantage being Asian. There are so many pretty, white girls auditioning for MT programs. Being different gives you an edge. I can give you some anecdotal evidence. A girl who graduated from my daughter's performing arts H.S. two years ago was accepted into MT programs at CCM, CMU, and Michigan. The girl is a talented singer, she was a fair actress coming out of H.S., and she could dance at an intermediate level. I'm probably showing my parental bias here, but I think that my D is more skilled in all three areas. I truly believe this girl, though very talented, got accepted into three top programs because she looked different.

A female acting major who graduated in my D's class this year was accepted into CMU's drama program. Other kids, both boys and girls that I believe to be much more accomplished actors, did not get accepted. This girl's advantage was being African-American.

Please understand that I am not saying that either of these girls doesn't deserve to have gotten their acceptance letters. I believe that both of them have lots of potential. I am saying that they both possessed a quality that most of the girls walking into the audition room did not have. They looked different. When everyone else begins to look like they came from the same mold, someone who looks different can make the auditors wake up and take notice.

Tell your D to take pride in the qualities that make her unique as a performer. Good luck to you both.

P.S. You might want to try to find a dance studio that is more understanding of your D's desire to do theatre. As I'm sure you know, if your D gets cast in a musical she will inevitably have to miss some dance classes. My D ended up choosing to drop dance as a major at her performing arts H.S. after her freshman year because the dance faculty made a stink about sharing her with the MT department. She ended up returning to CCM Prep for dance. She'd been in their pre-professional ballet program since elementary school. She graduated this year. The dance teachers at CCM allowed her to choreograph a piece for the end of the year recital. They have been very understanding of her need to miss class in order to attend theatrical rehearsals and performances. It's been great to have teachers that realize that not every dancer aspires to a career with a ballet company. D's CCM teachers know that her greatest strength is as a jazz and tap dancer and they have been great in cheering her on as an MT performer.

The situation was the polar opposite at her H.S. My D was required to audition for the school's major musical her freshman year. This was a school policy. All dance majors were required to audition. Apparently, they rarely got cast in the musicals because most of them can't sing. D was cast, though she was new at the school. This was also unheard of. New girls were supposed to have to bide their time their 1st year at the school. D was also a member of the Dance Ensemble at the school that year. We were told that dance rehearsals were during the school day, unlike previous years. Play practices were all after school. There was supposed to be no conflict between the schedules for the musical and the Dance Ensemble. Unfortunately, this turned out not to be the case. The schedules conflicted virtually 100% of the time, because the dance faculty pretended that they needed after school rehearsal time in addition to the 2 periods per day that had been ADDED that year. The dance faculty greatly resented having to share their dancers. D was one of 5 dance majors cast in the musical. The other 4, all upper classmen, disobeyed policy and skipped musical rehearsals to attend Dance Ensemble rehearsals. My D followed the rules and became the scapegoat for the dance faculty's resentment. In short, that's why D did not dance at the school after her 1st year. She could have continued as a double major (some kids manage to do several majors during their 4 years of H.S.), but decided that she didn't need any more grief from the dance faculty. The aftermath for the school was that dance majors are no longer required to audition for the major musical. That was one of many wakes left behind my D as she went through her 4 years at the school. I won't miss her H.S. one bit!

By Prima_Donna (Prima_Donna) on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 01:09 am: Edit

Ok, I really would like to go into musical theatre professionally, however, I also have a love of history, so academics is extremely important to me. Most schools I'm looking at don't have a musical theatre major. I know I want to double major in history and something with muscial theatre. My question is, if you are going to a school without a musical theatre major, would you recommend majoring in voice or theatre? Maybe theatre, with voice lessons on the side? Or voice, with acting lessons on the side? And how will I fit dance into this? With most programs, can your electives incluide things like dance? I'm really not sure what to do. One school I'm looking at is Notre Dame, anyone have any ideas for how I do this? I'm also looking at Sarah Lawrence, which I don't think I will have this problem there because they have an open curriculum and you dont have to pick a major. So anyhow, any ideas anyone? Suggestions? I think skill-wise, I'm fair in both acting and singing, prolly better in acting. However, my voice teacher says I have the voice, talent, and the musicality to do better, I just need the confidence. So is this saying I have good potential? Thanx 4 the suggestions.

By Sweaterinjune (Sweaterinjune) on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 02:04 am: Edit

Hello all...

I stumbled across this forum a few days ago and began reading from page 1...I got to page 4 and decided to jump ahead to see what page everyone was currently on and sorry to say, there's no going back now! I don't think I could sit here that long.

I am currently getting ready to begin my junior year at West Virginia University where I am a theatre major (Don Knotts is a graduate as is Chris Sarandon). Anyhow, I ended up there because I decided to go the "practical route" my parents encouraged and was absolutely miserable and bored! So, first off, I am so proud of the parents on this board who already recognize what my parents are just beginning to realize. Despite the hardships involved, when a dream calls you have to chase after it if it means everything to you.

Secondly, having only just now completed a year in the theatre program at WVU, I wasn't at the point I should have been when it came to Studio auditions for acting. Studio is the conservatory-style BFA training offered there. I have a choice now. I am taking classes this year that can go towards a BA in Theatre and/or a BFA in Acting, as well as voice and dance. WVU does not have MT; however the music department does have opera. I can audition again this spring for Studio, and I imagine I will. I am trying to gauge now what my options would be for continued education in MT.

I don't know if I'd have what the schools are looking for in MFA candidates. I won't have a BFA in MT. I don't know if it would be wiser to audition for MFA MT, MFA Acting and take classes outside for voice and dance, or to forego grad school for a while and take all private classes.

I have sang my entire life and had principle roles in musicals; and dance training in ballet, jazz, and tap. I am also a female magician. Obviously, I have a theatre background. Any suggestions from people who know the educational MT scene well would be appreciated. Also, if anyone has school suggestions for me to look into.

Thank you so much! I look forward to your responses.
~Nell

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 09:12 am: Edit

NYdancemon,
Please take a look at the following web page for Chanhassen Dinner Theatre which is one of the best know dinner theatres in Minnesota. See Annie's picture http://www.chanhassentheatres.com/whats_playing/
colorblind casting is alive and well in Minnesota and no one thinks anything of it.

By Nydancemom (Nydancemom) on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 09:48 am: Edit

You are all so thoughtful to reply to my post.

Cluelessmc2 I see what you mean about colorblind casting in Minnesota! Unfortunately, in our area of upstate NY it would be extremely rare, although not impossible. Our girls were Snow children in Carousel at a local university several years ago. The Mr. Snow was black, Mrs. Snow was white, the oldest Snow son was black and the oldest Snow daughter was white (all their college students). The other three kids were white and our daughters are Asian. Even at the age of 6, my youngest daughter said one day, "Oh, I get it. Since our "dad" is black and our "mom" is white, we're the "tan" kids they'd have." But on the other hand, I had a director who was working with my daughter on one show tell me not to bother to bring her to an audition for Sound of Music that he was casting. He said, "I know theater is moving to a more colorblind casting, but I couldn't do the show that way." Can't really say I blame him. It is what it is. Unfortunately, I do think that the University would be more accepting than the "real world" directors, but of course they are casting their students so they are not the directors she would normally be auditioning for around here.

Dancersmom I understand what you're saying about standing out in a crowd of "pretty white girls". My D will surely do that, whether for better or worse. She's used to that since we live in a pretty much white suburban area where the largest minority population in her school is adopted Korean kids like herself (and there are only a handful of those- 2 of which are mine) But fortunately she is VERY proud to be Korean (goes to Korean camp for adopted kids every year and revels in being Korean for a few days!!) and she is VERY outgoing and has a generally positive attitude about life in general. So her dad and I will support her in her quest in MT, even though I'm sure at times we all will doubt the sanity of that decision. But we figure, she's bright and a good student, so she can always change careers if she wants to later. And when you have a dream that's as big as this dream, you just have to go for it!

By Nydancemom (Nydancemom) on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 09:54 am: Edit

Oh also, Dancersmom, unfortunatley we don't have a lot of really top notch dance schools here, so since my daughter is at the best one for training, we really don't have much choice but to stay there and hope her teacher doesn't "freak out" too much. She is pretty used to our daughter's crazy life at this point, and is SOMEWHAT forgiving of her missing classes because she knows that our daughter dances because she wants to do theater, not to be a ballet dancer. It still gets ugly sometimes and will probably get worse over the next three years until she graduates, but hopefully not so ugly that we all can't deal with it! Thanks for the suggestion though! Wish we were in a bit more metropolitan area for more choices!

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 04:31 pm: Edit

Nydancemom,
After I went to bed last night I was thinking about your comment that your D would never have been considered for the part of Annie because she's Korean and Annie needs to have curly red hair. There is a family that lives up the street from me that has several children. The mom is originally from the Philipines and the dad is a white, former U.S. serviceman. One of their daughters is a beautiful teenager with a tan complexion, lovely Asian eyes and bright, copper red hair. She has quite a striking appearance. Her red hair is natural. I've known the family slightly since the girl was in her early elementary years. Maybe she could have been cast as an Asian Annie!

I hope that perhaps your dance studio will become more understanding of your D's absences. Grownups can grow emotionally too. Maybe your dance teacher will.

Kudos to you for supporting your D's dream. I can't recall ever hearing any adult say, "I wish my parents hadn't encouraged me to follow my heart." I can think of quite a few who say the opposite.

By Sarahsmom (Sarahsmom) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 12:48 am: Edit

Hi all, it has been a while since I have visited this page. But it is good to see that it is still very, very active.

Alwaysamom asked some time ago if it was ok to apply to NYU Steinhardt if one did not have extensive music training. My daughter will be attending there this fall, and she has recently returned from her orientation. My daughter has extensive vocal performance experience (mt, jazz, classical, opera, chorus), and very solid acting training and performance. She has had about three years of recent dance training, principally ballet and jazz in addition to the years that she went to dance classes as a young child. She has studied piano, violin for about 4 years total, but not for the last few years - truly her instrumental ability allows her to work on songs but she is not accomplished enough to be a stand alone instrumentalist by any means. She has learned sight reading thru her various premier choruses that she has been in and she has become quite good at it, however she has never taken sight-reading nor music theory classes per se. So in essence she is a very good singer/actress, but not an extensively trained musician specifically. This said, she did not find the sightreading nor the music theory questions at the NYU Steinhardt audition to be difficult at all, in fact she felt it was surprisingly rudimentary. There were 3 basic theory questions (eg, identifying a specific scale, identifying the name for the symbol of the G clef, etc), and she felt that the sightreading was far easier than any she has seen in all-state chorus auditions. She got to sing 2 of her 3 songs, was asked to work with them a bit on the songs, felt that the auditioners gave her a great deal of time, and were very warm and responsive. She did a full monologue, this time a comedy and was happy that they all laughed and commented positively. Her audition was about 20 minutes, and was for four faculty members. She returned a few hours later for a group dance audition: ballet, jazz, tap - she felt that this dance audition was the most extensive of any of her auditions, quite challenging, and it lasted more than 1 hour. All of this is to suggest that one does not need to be a fully trained musician for entrance to Steinhardt - they are looking for very strong vocalists with 'relatively few bad habits to correct', but they are also looking for strong actors and dancers. There is a considerable music theory sequence (a package of music theory/keyboard harmony/aural comprehension), and my daughter placed in the basic class in orientation - she said that nearly all of the MT students did. If one is interested in a strong music-based but comprehensive MT program, taught in a small program with close faculty oversight then Steinhardt is a program to look at. If one does not have extensive musical training prior to going to this program, you will learn it there.

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 08:50 am: Edit

Sarahsmom, welcome back! I think you may be confusing me with someone else. My D is already at Tisch so I wouldn't have been asking. I do recall a discussion about Steinhardt but it wasn't me who was asking if it was ok to apply without extensive music training. What I did contribute was that it is a very music focussed program, which may be difficult for some kids with little or no music training. Of the 131 credits required for the Bachelor of Music in Vocal Performance, Specialization in Music Theatre at Steinhardt, 25 of them are core music credits:

E85.0092 Collegium and Program Seminar (each semester) 0

E85.0006 Aural Comprehension I 1

E85.0007 Aural Comprehension II 1

E85.0008 Aural Comprehension III 1

E85.0009 Aural Comprehension IV 1

E85.0035 Music Theory I 1

E85.0036 Music Theory II 1

E85.0037 Music Theory III 1

E85.0038 Music Theory IV 1

E85.0072 Keyboard Harmony & Improvisation I 1

E85.0073 Keyboard Harmony & Improvisation II 1

E85.0074 Keyboard Harmony & Improvisation III 1

E85.007 Keyboard Harmony & Improvisation IV 1

E85.1067 Music History I: Medieval & Renaissance 1

E85.1068 Music History II: Baroque & Classical 1

E85.1077 Music History III: 19th Century 1

E85.1078 Music History IV: 20th Century 1

E85.1092 Recital 1


I have a friend who taught at Steinhardt for years and this is why they make it clear to applicants that *some* (not necessarily extensive) music background is highly recommended, which is only natural since it's a Bachelor of Music which is the degree that is awarded. Good luck to your daughter!

By Baymom (Baymom) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 01:01 pm: Edit

S and I just returned from a visit to Illinois Wesleyan and thought I'd give a rundown for all those who are looking in the midwest (I know there's a few of us out there!)

The campus is simply beautiful. Since 2000, most of the buildings have undergone extensive renovation or rebuilding. The liibrary, student center, science building, pool and fitness center, dance studios, dorms are all first rate.A new theater is scheduled to open in 2006. The music school is in a historic building that has also been renovated extensively. The school is located in the "twin cities" of Bloomington-Normal, population about 120,000. Illinois State is located there as well so there is definitely a college town feel to the area.

Our visit was very personal. The counselor spent well over an hour with us and they chose a tour guide with a music background. Although it was summer, they had security people meet us at any closed buiuldings related to music and theater so that we could see all areas. Academically the school is first rate, great freshman class profile last year. It's highly selective academically but they are looking beyond test scores and rankings for kids who are "multi-talented." They have a whole brochure devoted to the subject that profiles kids who are music and biology majors or athletes and poets. Music theatre is conservatory style with a liberal arts component.

They had about 100 applicants for music theater last year, 80 auditioned (they like you to interview and make sure you meet academic standards before auditioning) and they accepted 20 to get a class of 10. In the past they had accepted more females than males but last year it was even. They do 5 mainstage shows a year (2 musicals) and 15 lab productions (they have 2 black box theaters). The music school is large and there are six ensembles and choirs. S also liked the fact that they have an improv troupe and comedy sketch group (one of his loves is comedy). Coursework is very evenly divided between voice, acting and dance (ballet, jazz, modern and tap all required). Voice lessons every semester and music theater practicum every semester as well. A unique feature is their "May term." Second semester ends the last week in April and the optional May term begins a week later. Students can choose to take one course on campus - choices are usually unusual, may be based on a professor's research or on an experimental topic. They also have the option of a travel May term - Wesleyan professors take math majors to Greece, biology majors to Bolivia, theater majors to New York or London to see up to 15 shows, meet with directors and actors and do play analysis. There are also myriad internship opportunities with television, casting directors,etc.

S loved all the personal attention (they have 13 admissions counselors for an applicant pool of 3800 and a separate counselor just for theatre) and definitely will audition. All in all, we were pretty impressed with the school and the program.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 02:03 am: Edit

Hi guys!

Just to let you know that I have finally gotten a chance to start updating the FAQ again. I added Dancersmom's bit about range, started a key for non-audition schools on the Big List, and have added a few schools. The cut policy page is on its way.

Are there any other specific topics that anyone thinks would be useful?

I'm going to run off to ice my poor knee now. I started ballet a few weeks ago, and guess who didn't plie so well when landing a tour jete with an in-air fouette tacked on the end? :-) I'm learning a lot, though! Hopefully I'll be able to place out of beginning dance classes come fall.

Shauna

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 08:39 am: Edit

Shauna,

Great job, as usual. What about a listing of reputable MT summer programs? I'd suggest 2 categories: one for precollege programs, e.g., Carnegie Mellon, Northwestern Cherubs, OCU and one for summer camps, e.g., French Woods, Stage Door Manor, etc. With help from previous posts, you could probably describe some of the meaningful differences between the programs. Perhaps current participants would be willing to share the costs of these programs for posting as well.

Thanks Shauna! And kudos for getting a head start on the ballet classes. My D has started some piano lessons this summer in attempt to justify her placement in the middle of three piano class levels at UM. She's still trying to figure out how that happened.....altho she's had two years of music theory, she's had no piano since age 6!!

And watch out for the grande pas de chat's as well - they'll get you every time!! Take care of yourself young lady - we don't want you heading off for UNT on crutches!!

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 12:10 pm: Edit

Theatermom...My thought exactly....a good listing of summer MT programs would be helpful to those coming after us. Shauna...let me know what you need to know about OCU. Daughter is there now.

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 12:26 pm: Edit

Shauna,

My daughter attended French Woods Festival for four summers and Syracuse for one summer. We would
be happy to provide info. Just let us know what you are looking for.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 01:47 pm: Edit

Theatermom, that's a great idea. I'll get to work on that! Musicalthtrmom and Dramamama, if searches reveal nothing, I'll definitely take you up on those offers. Thanks!

And as far as dance goes...I am in the most random assortment of classes. Everything from Beginning Ballet to Ballet II! I'm in class a good two to three hours a day, so I am sore like no other, and am happily taking pointers on proper basic technique from my 11-year-old classmates. I'll laugh about it when I'm getting my Tony, right? :-D

Shauna

By Falloffstage (Falloffstage) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 01:49 pm: Edit

I am an incoming junior in high school and I am thoroughly interested in the Cap21 summer program for next summer. Can anyone email me or post their personal experiences? I have a few specific questions, such as what life is like outside of class and how independent the students are. Also, I am curious about how many students attend this program- I have found difficulty finding that information online. Thanks in advance.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 02:20 pm: Edit

Wow.

I am totally in shock right now.

Apparently, to have a singing concentration in musical theater, I had to audition for the music department.

I'm really scared. I called the theater department numerous times and they said I did not have to worry about the music department, nor did I have to audition for anything. I just...wow. I can't believe it. I found out because I happened to call the music department today. They said that this happens all the time, though. But dang. Who knew?

The only audition they said I had to do was at the end of my sophomore year. Well, that's not true! I suppose it is supposed to be expected since singing is the only concentration not offered through the dance/theater department (not acting, not dancing).

Now I can't get ahold of the theater department at all and I'm wondering what else I missed.

Shauna

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 03:29 pm: Edit

Shauna,

Take a deep breath and let's try to figure out the real world implications of this news. Are you able to pin down the people who can tell you how your actual coursework or opportunities would be different if they won't let you audition anytime before your sophomore year? It may turn out that you are able to do most, if not all, that you want without the "formal" designation of having selected a concentration in voice. If it turns out that this mistake (on their part, not yours) limits your opportunities, you should try and find a way to respectfully make a case to the music department that because you attempted to gather all the information necessary to make informed choices but were given misinformation (any actual dates or names of people you spoke to would be most helpful here)that they should allow you to audition for a singing concentration before sophomore year?.

Most important will probably be keeping a cool head and a measured tone in all your interactions with the departments involved from here on. However, if you don't get any satisfaction and feel that the folks who you are able to reach are the same ones who gave you the misinformation (and are therefore not likely to want to pass you along to any "higher-ups" who would then become aware of the mistakes that have been made) do whatever you can to do an end run and make contact with the people increasingly up the ladder in the dept until there are no more rungs to climb. This may involve not just phonecalls, but email or snail mail as well.

We all know how determined you are and I'm sure if anyone can fix this (assuming there is really a difference in the training you are being offered), you can. Hope this advice proves helpful in some way. Good luck! And don't fret - this is just another hurdle and you know what to do about those!!!

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 03:51 pm: Edit

Shauna--Theatremom gave you some excellent advice. If this "happens all the time," what has happened to the people that this has happened to? Can the music dept. specifically tell you what has been done for those students in the past?

This might have to wait for the theatre dept., but are there ANY present MT students that you can communicate with at all? Would the school be willing to give you names and numbersof any? It would be nice to get info from present students on how to go about handling problems, finding out any inside info, etc.

By Courtbroadway17 (Courtbroadway17) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 06:51 pm: Edit

Hi. I am extremely overwhelmed by this entire process. I have been looking at MT schools for a long time. I really want a college experience, but I want the musical theater program to be awesome. I would like some opinions on my top MT schools. I want to know how much emphasis they place on singing and music (like theory - I don't want my voice to be ruined in college, when I am young), acting, and dance. Here are my schools so far that match my personality fairly well, that were recommended to me for MT.

#1 Ithaca College
#2 Illinois Wesleyan University
#3 Elon University
#4 University of Miami
#5 Cornell College
#6 Ohio Wesleyan University.

I have looked at OCU and NYU, but don't think they fit my personality. I am interested in CMU but I don't have the SAT scores (not in Math anyway.) Can you guys suggest any other schools? I have read a lot of this thread, but I think I really need a direct answer to my question.

Thanks,
Court

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 07:27 pm: Edit

Court,

It is my impression after listening to a presentation by CMU that SATs and academics count for only a small fraction when looking at MT candidates. It's mostly about talent! I don't know enough about the curriculum at the other schools to advise you. But I am sure there are others on this board that will be able to give you more information.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 07:33 pm: Edit

Okay, here's a slightly less panicked post. I'm sorry the previous one was so crazy-sounding; I was just really unnerved and needed to tell someone what was happening!

The theatre department knows nothing about it. Absolutely nothing. I finally reached them and they told me that they couldn't speak for the music department and that if music had auditions that theatre couldn't be held responsible. Obviously there is a huge lack of communication as the degree is offered completely and totally by the theatre department, and I had no idea until a few hours ago that the music department was even involved. I think what is most frustrating is that when I called them months ago, I specifically asked them "do I need to contact the music department at all" and the answer was a resounding "no, don't worry about a thing." Unfortunately, I have no idea who I talked to.

It looks like I'm going to be a semester behind, as the audition was for the "concentration" and the juries for those are only held in January and March. However, if I qualify for a "secondary" (and it sounds like nearly everyone does) then I can still take voice classes at a lesser level until the jury at the end of my first semester. However, that entire first semester won't count toward my concentration coursework.

So yeah. The music department was much more helpful than the theatre department. I reached the music department totally by accident today; it is a really good thing I did. She said that often the theatre department does not tell the student that the music department is involved and consequently the student does not audition, must do a secondary and "loses" a semester of concentration work. They said that they have really been trying to bridge the gap in the last couple of years but that the information doesn't always trickle down.

Again, sorry for the panicked post before. I just...panicked. :-)

*takes a big breath*

I still feel a bit helpless as I still keep wondering if there is something else I don't know. But at least now the music department has my number, and the incredibly helpful woman on the other line said that she would let me know if there was anything else I needed to do.

Shauna

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Court,
I do not believe that Ohio Wesleyan has a Musical Theater major, per se. According to their website you can piece together a Musical Theater major by working with the Theatre department and Music Department. I would have reservations that this would be the best way to go. Some of the other schools on your list look like better bets for a Musical Theater degree. You might want to look harder at Wesleyan and see if it offers exactly what you want.

By Baymom (Baymom) on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 08:57 pm: Edit

Courtbroadway,
As you may have read in my recent post, my son loved Illinois Wesleyan. He has some of the same criteria you do - the campus/college experience, awesome MT, good care taken of his voice, big emphasis on music/voice classes. He's also interested in CMU and that's his big reach school. He'll try for it knowing the odds are really tough. He doesn't have the greatest scores either but we were told by CMU that the audition is much more important and that as long as the scores are at a minimum standard he'll be fine. This was the same at IWU which has rigorous academic standards but doesn't place as much weight on SATs for MT. The counselor told my son he would have no problem qualifying for the audition with his scores. If you want any more info on IWU feel free to email me.

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 12:17 am: Edit

Just a note on college applications. My son gives a big thumbs up to Otterbein. It was the easiest one for him to complete and it is ready to be mailed tomorrow. He said to tell Dr.John thanks.

He is deep into getting the applications that are available done during this July lull. He has forgone doing any shows during the summer so that he can concentrate on lessons. Some of you might remember our concern over his lack of dancing ability last summer. He took as much dance as he had time for during the school year. He even helped choreograph the high schools end of year Broadway show. Many of the girls in the show teach/dance at a local dance studio. This summer that school offered him all the classes he wants free and he is wisely taking advantage of this. Next he found a used piano, a piano teacher and he is bound to turn those five years of alto sax lessons into making him a decent piano player. But that’s not enough, since he won’t be able to be in the fall musical as the dates conflict with college auditions he has decided to go out for football. (Our team has won/been in the state championship forever.) This is a kid who never watched a football game in his life. At his bedside now sit a number of books: Football for Dummies and The Best Plays of … series, Tennessee Williams is his particular favorite right now. I am so impressed with his determination and I have to give his participation in MT the credit for the strong sense of self. When I see kids like Shauna and my son & the rest of you MT kids I am truly proud of you. You put in more work before going to college than most will do their entire college career.
Jenifer

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 09:18 am: Edit

Dear Jenifer,
I have not posted in a while, but, still keep up with everyone. I am impressed with your son's determination. However, I am a little worried about two things.

1. football - The son of a friend of mine went out for football after never having played and ended up in a cast (upper thigh to foot) for months. It sounds like your son's hs fooball team is tough and the daily am and pm practices will be where injuries are a risky possibility.

2. audition schedule - You mentioned that your son couldn't be in the fall musical because it conflicted with auditions. Do any of those fall audition dates have Jan. or Feb. options?

Mtheatremom

By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 09:30 am: Edit

Jenifer, I have to echo Mtheatremom's words here. Football is such a dangerous sport, even for those who have played for years. My D had two friends who played since they were 12 and both ended up with serious injuries in senior year that affected not only their extra-currics but their academics as well. If your school's team is so accomplished, then they obviously take it very seriously and even in practice, the chance of injury is high. I have a brother who is an orthopedic surgeon, and trust me, the bulk of his practice is sports related injuries. Although I admire your son's interest, I would worry about that possibility and how it might then affect his auditions and future.

The audition schedule is something you should definitely look into as far as later auditions are concerned. I'm not aware of any schools which limit their auditions to the fall. Being in his senior year fall musical is going to obviously be something which is a big asset in his college applications.

Lastly, I'll pass along some advice we have recently been given about applications while dealing with my current h/s senior. Never mail them in the summer months. Three different admissions officers told us this. They said that there's no need to rush them in so early, they aren't looked at yet and the chances of 'pieces' of them getting misplaced, etc. is high during the summer months. I'm not sure if this is true but just passing along what we've heard from three different schools.

By Prima_Donna (Prima_Donna) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 01:12 pm: Edit

I am currently looking at Ohio Wesleyan. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about it. I understand MT is an interdisciplinary major there. I read musicalthtrmom's post, however, I am still looking at Ohio Wesleyan. In the ARCO guide, OW is recommended for musical theatre, so the program must have strengths. My questions are, does anyone know if you can double major with MT and something else? Also, the dance and theater departments don't rquire auditions, but the music department does. The MT major is under the theatre and dance dept on the website, so...do you have to audition? I haven't seen OW mentioned much on this site, so I'm not really sure anyone will have the answers. Does anyone have suggestions on where to get these answers?
Thanx,
Prima Donna

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 04:17 pm: Edit

Thanks to all of you for the advice. This will be long because you hit a nerve.

I think S will hold off sending the others as they are so much more detailed. I really can't figure out why they need to know some of this stuff ... who cares what blood type my cousin has LOL. He is doing most on line and just getting them ready - he figures he will send them the 2nd week in August - is that too early?

As far as football - if you only knew my S - I have never been able to tell him anything once he sets his mind to it. However- I believe he is planning on trying out as a place kicker. He has many cousins who were football heroes and they all have the injuries to show for it, so he is aware of the risks.

As far as the musical - many of the schools we visited encouraged early auditions (as stated here in CC) for the scholarships especially. With the price of these MT colleges, that will be a factor.

Here is the long part - thanks for letting me get this off my chest it has been there a long time this will be cathartic.

His HS drama department has left somewhat of a sour taste in his mouth. In the fall as a freshman he was selected to play Nicely Johnson in G&D. A plum role that usually went to JR. if not SR. In the winter instead of trying out for the regular school plays he wanted to continue with musical theatre and ended up at an area youth theatre cabaret show (Where Josh Hartnet got his start for those of you who care.) as the youngest cast member of mostly Seniors and college students.
Spring play the director didn't cast him. In the summer he went off to Stagedoor Manor in NY (a long way from MN) and was cast in an "A" show an honor for a first year participant. Fall musical "ensemble", which came as a big surprise to everyone as they were all telling him he would get the lead. That winter he tried out for a very well respected area Civic Theatre. (The director of the HS drama dept. has taken classes from this director. The CT director is a former Broadway dancer who still is able to get "stars" to perform with the theatre.) He was cast in a supporting role with lines and even a small solo!
To make a long story a little shorter - this director has never cast him in a lead role since - yet regional and other theatres have never failed to cast him.
Last fall they did Cinderella. At work I have a picture of my son that new people never fail to ask me if I knew JFK JR. I felt sorry for the 5' 7" prince as he walked on stage with the steward my 6' 1" son. I felt sorry for him as people complained during the two intermissions that even with a mike they couldn't hear the prince and why wasn't the guy playing the steward playing the prince! It was embarrassing when complete strangers would find out I was the mother of the steward (I was working concessions) and ask me why my S was not the prince when his voice and appearance so much better fit the part. I found myself continually defending the director though my heart wasn't on it. I have examined my S actions to see if it was something he did. But every teacher, every adult I know comments on his maturity and manners. He even built four large warehouse style storage racks for the prop room and organized it as his Boy Scout Eagle Project.
We have been told that the director doesn’t like students going outside the HS drama dept., that he is “saving” him for a really big part, (That was before last year.) that we haven’t donated enough money to the drama department the list goes on and on. What ever the case S is just tired of it all and ready to move on. I think he is almost relieved the way things worked out. He will have letters of recommendation from the musical director at the Guthrie Theatre and Mpls. Children’s Theatre Company and his advanced Botany teacher but he will not ask for one from the drama director at his HS. He has been selected by his peers to produce their student run end of the year Broadway showcase, to him that means much more.

Jenifer

By Prima_Donna (Prima_Donna) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 04:45 pm: Edit

Jenifer-
I will tell you what my director has told me every year that I've worked with him.

"Auditions are inherently unfair"

However, he insists that that's not a wrong thing for auditions to be. When a director prepares for auditions, he has a vision. He casts according to this vision. He may decide not to follow traditional casting. For example, if a director is directing something such as Annie. Suppose he goes into the auditions deciding that he wants his Annie to be hispanic. At auditions there's a girl with curly red hair who can sing beautifully. Then there's this hispanic girl who can't sing so well. What will he do? Cast the hispanic.
So my point is, shows are not always typecast. You may not agree with what the director does, but it doesn't matter. The director is always right. Perhaps the other boy fit his vision better. Perhaps his vision was to have a tall steward and a shorter prince. You don't know.
In the real world of MT, you and your son must get used to this. Auditions will not always go as you think they should.
At my high school, my director (different than one above) has everyone sing together, not seperate, and assigns parts from that. In my community theatre, people who never went to auditions end up being leads.
Auditions will always be unfair. If your son does so much other theatre, why is he so upset by this? He obviously knows he's talented. Perhaps this may be character building for him. Sometimes we have to play second fiddle, even if we know we deserve to be first. It's all part of life.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Jenifer--

I'm really sorry to hear that about your son. I'm glad you got it off your chest, though!

It seems to me like the director doesn't have a lot of self-confidence in his program or in his abilities to have a well-run program. For one he is jealous that your son thought he could go to a better-than-high-school theatre...and did. It probably only made it worse that your son did so well at these other theatres. Not only that, but I'm sure he got a lot of grief from upperclassmen when he cast your son as Nicely Nicely. So when spring play of his frosh year rolled around, I can see the upperclassmen saying, "This is our last show; we're never going to have another chance and it's not fair to have that kid in the show," and he buckled.

Regardless of the specifics of what actually happened, I'm sure it makes you want to kick something; I know I would! But at least you have the knowledge that your son truly does have a lot of talent, and that the reason he's not getting cast is because he's awful.

If nothing else, think how wonderful it will be when he produces that showcase and it turns out FANTASTIC! Revenge of that kind is always so sweet. :-)

Shauna

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 09:29 pm: Edit

Prima Donna,

I don't dispute that the director has the right to cast as he chooses. However given the situation I believe it was more agenda than vision. I think the fact that my son chose to do Cinderella dispite the fact the every one was flabber gasted he didn't get the prince speak volumes about his character. As does the fact that regardless of this treatment by the director he spent months on his Eagle project to make the drama department better for everyone. Then being chosen by his peers tells us even more about "their" beliefs. To cap it off the senior girl that played Cinderella asked my son to be her Prom date.

So why does it bother him so much - frankly I think he's pretty much written it off - as I said he is ready to move on. It is a shame though that he will leave his High School with the most theatre time on stage in plays directed by his peers, guest directors or in outside productions and nary a lead role from the drama dept. director. I think it speaks volumes about the director and less about my son. For me this was the first chance to say something about this - as my husband and I have suffered silently for our son. I am thankful that we live a metropolitan area where so much theatre experience is available. If this had been a smaller town or my son hadn't had so much "character" then perhaps he would have felt he had no talent and would not have persued MT further. I understand that your saying just get over it - but sometimes PRIMA DONNA it is nice to just vent among friends.

Shauna,

Thanks so much for your kind words. I didn't mean it as a pity party. It was something I just had to get off my chest. I am sure everyone has a bad director etc. story to tell. The point of the original post was to say you kids really work hard and should be commended.

Jenifer

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 09:57 pm: Edit

Jenifer,

It most definitely did not come across as a pity party and I know you didn't even mean it that way. Thank you for your kind words as well. Guess we all just keep trudging along, eh? :-)

Shauna

Edit: Oops! In my previous post, that should read: But at least you have the knowledge that your son truly does have a lot of talent, and that the reason he's not getting cast is *NOT* because he's awful. *blush* Typo!

By Mezzomom (Mezzomom) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 10:23 pm: Edit

As I mentioned in Thread 20, my daughter and I went to Westerville, Ohio this past weekend to check out Otterbein. Because of my daughter's schedule and her strong desire to see "Forever Plaid" on campus, we had to go this past weekend, even though admissions was closed and Doctorjohn is on vacation. Doctorjohn did, however, arrange for one of his MT students to show us around and spend some time with us. Below are some of my (probably lengthy, hopefully not too disjointed) observations. Remember too that my daughter is looking at Otterbein for music and possibly organizational communications; although she is not considering MT, she is quite active in theatre and does not want to attend a school that does not have a strong theatre program.

The campus itself is small, but charming nonetheless. The grounds are clearly well-maintained although not manicured. Lots of mature trees and tasteful seasonal plantings...enough to indicate a pride in appearance but not draining the budget for showy gardens. All facilities are within easy walking distance of each other and within very easy (2-3 blocks) walking distance of the historic downtown district. As you go out of town in either direction, there is a full complement of fast food and find-em-anywhere-in-the-country kind of stores which are accessible by car or even by bike (2-3 miles?).

The hub of the campus appeared to be the Campus Center which houses the dining hall, the bookstore, and The Roost, a fast food type of place on campus. There is another food place on campus which offers less traditional, healthier food alternatives (salads, hummus, etc), and according to our guide, there is going to be a third eating place soon. Freshman are required to live on campus and use the meal plan, but for students wanting to move off campus after freshman year, it appeared that housing opportunities might be fairly plentiful. The school is nestled in a residential setting of older homes, and given the number of "For Rent" signs I saw, I think a fair number of the homes are probably rented to students. And I have to say, it's one of the few areas I've seen in the midwest which still has (some) cobblestone streets. Overall the effect is comfortable, charming, and quaint without being self-consciously cute. The closest eastern city that I could compare the effect to is parts of Newport, RI...not the mansions, of course, but some of the late 1800, working class areas of Newport. In addition, Westerville is very close to Columbus (and The Ohio State University), so if the small-town feel got too cloying, there are the advantages of a major metropolitan area within reasonable driving distance.

Some of the buildings/facilities that we saw did seem a bit worn about the edges, but it is also very clear that there are many renovations either recently completed or ongoing. While we were there, we poked our heads in the Battelle Fine Arts Center; the main theatre there is being refurbished (new seats, etc), although our guide said the stage itself won't be changed. There's also construction going on at the library, and I did read on the website that the football stadium is also going to be renovated (with private funding).

Speaking of the Battelle Fine Arts Center...the audition room for BFA students (and Bm/BA music students?...not sure on that one) is a place we stopped in. Once you get past the shock of all the orange in the room, the most noticeable characteristic is the very live acoustics. We didn't go so far as to check for dead spots, but it did seem like a room that would be kind to performers.

Some of the questions we asked our guide: My daughter asked him, "What DON'T you like about Otterbein?" He actually was struggling to come up with an answer (although about 40 minutes later, he did blurt out, "The food is pretty awful!"), so I rephrased the question to, "Were you told anything during the admissions process which you later found to be untrue?" He replied that he had known about the Senior Showcase but didn't find out until later that Senior Showcase at Otterbein is by audition. He said this bothered him at first, but he is now totally over it, particularly since the classes after his are being clearly told that Senior Showcase is by audition.

He also told us that the internships with the casting agents are very big with the BFA students. He said most students come back from their internship and describe it as "life-changing." Students are expected to find their own apartments and pay their expenses while on internship; this is viewed, at least by our guide, as a good intro to "the real world."

He mentioned that he enjoys the relationship between the school and the town. Many town residents recognize the student actors and respond warmly to them. Some residents are not as comfortable with some of the pithier, cutting edge works done by the theatre department, but the school still does the shows. He described the summer theatre program as "one musical for the masses, one farce for the masses, and one show that is for the actors." Also worthy of note...students in the summer theatre program are paid, although I didn't feel like prying to find out how much.

I find it easy to believe that a student would feel comfortable and welcomed by the community. Westerville is one of the friendliest communities I have ever experienced in the United States. There was genuine warmth and friendliness from the people we met. I went into a Speedway to purchase a map of Ohio, and the clerk asked me if I needed help finding someplace. I went into a bookstore to purchase a book about the history of Westerville and spent 30 minutes in conversation with the clerk there...about being from Michigan, visiting Otterbein, the effect of OSU on the nightly news broadcasts (OSU had just hired a new basketball coach, and it was the lead story on all the stations), and just general chit-chat. And when we went to see "Forever Plaid" on campus, an older woman came in using a walker. It was painfully clear that negotiating the steps to her seat was going to be a bit of a challenge, and no less than three gentlemen offered to give up their front row seats. I don't know that these anecdotes really capture the genuine niceness of ALL the people we met, but it left a very deep impression on myself and my daughter. Again, I tried to think of someplace where I may have experienced something like this, and the closest I could come up with was the small Scottish village of 100 people/3000 sheep where I lived 20+ years ago.

And oh yes, "Forever Plaid"...I don't routinely write play reviews, so I hope my "WOW!!!" does the performance some justice. The four actors were two current students (including the young man who was our guide), a just-graduated student, and a former Otterbein student from (I think) the early '90s who also directed the show. The show is one highly-choreographed, harmonized song after another, and the performance was seamless, natural, and spell-binding. My daughter and I generally go to see three or more national tour shows a year, either in Detroit or Toronto, as well as a few operas, so despite living in Smallville USA, we're not arts-ignorant. I would easily place this show above some of the national-tour shows we have seen. No wrong notes (and my daughter would have noticed them, even if I didn't) and amazing high-energy performances from every actor. I had no trouble suspending disbelief and laughed myself into tears, along with many others in the audience. It was a genuine treat, and if this is the typical caliber of show presented at Otterbein, they are clearly doing something very, very right with their students.

Now for some "Quirky Things I Found Interesting" (although I am more than willing to concede that ONLY I will find them interesting!): There are three, count 'em, three United Methodist churches within about a 2 mile radius of each other. Typically, when one finds two United Methodist churches in close proximity to one another, it's because one was a United Brethren church before the merger in 1968. And that is the case here; the United Methodist church that is right on campus is a former United Brethren church (for that matter, Otterbein is a former United Brethren college...now United Methodist). The presence of a third UMC, however, has me baffled...but my daughter probably would have disowned me if I had started investigating further than I actually did. To make this more meaningful in terms of "college search and selection", I did ask our guide if the United Methodist connection was overwhelming or highly-apparent to the students. He felt it was not, which is the answer I expected. Generally, most United Methodist colleges have a minimal tie to the church...the church rarely contributes very much money to college budgets anymore. In many cases, the church will assign a chaplain to a college (I don't know if this is the case at Otterbein), and if United Methodist ministers are working as professors, they are allowed to maintain their connection and qualify for pensions through the church. BUT, if you are a member in good standing of the United Methodist church, and attend a United Methodist college, there are scholarships that one can apply for. (For the sake of belated full disclosure, I attended a small United Methodist college and 2/3 of my college education was paid by the church because at the time, I was a pre-seminary student.) Anway, the strong United Methodist presence of the past leads to:

"Second Quirky Thing I Found Interesting" - Westerville was once known as the "Dry Capitol of the World" and is still mostly, if not all, dry. In the early 1900s, the Anti-Saloon League set up shop in Westerville and was active there for a number of years. We asked our guide if he thought Westerville would ever go wet, and he said, "Maybe when satan starts wearing a winter coat and mittens"!! A dry community is a non-issue for my daughter, at least for now. She has had opportunities to drink and chooses not to and doesn't think that will change in a big hurry. I see a dry community as a double-edged sword for college students, because I do have to wonder if those students who choose to drink have to drive, drink, and drive back to campus. However, the information about the Anti-Saloon League did lead to an interesting observation from my daughter...she is wondering if their is still archival material stored in Westerville, because she thought it would be fascinating to research the historical use of "propaganda" in the furtherance of a social issue.

The upshot of this trip for us is that my daughter definitely wants to go back in the fall, when she can meet with admissions, students, and professors. She liked the feel of the campus and described it as "comfortable without being just like home" and "not intimidating". Conversely, on the way home, we drove around part of the Ohio Wesleyan campus...which is kind of split in half by a major thoroughfare. After driving around one side of the campus, I asked her if she wanted to drive around the other side, and she said, "No, it just doesn't feel right." And that was that! Sorry I've rambled on forever, but I do hope some of this has given you some insight into the campus.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 10:33 pm: Edit

Clueless, one of my D's friends is currently at Tisch. Lovely, talented young lady who never once got a major or even supporting role in her highschool plays. Nor did she ever get anything other than "company" in the roles at the private theatre group where she participated for years. She was the only one of her year in that area to get into Tisch, and she is doing very well there. I always puzzled over her casting.

My S faces political issues at his school in terms of casting and competition as well. His private voice instructor is top grade but she is "adjunct" at the school. The other voice instructor is very active with the school in choosing the casting for MT and for solos. Her students consistently get the more prime roles, no question about it. Not so much from biased casting but by picking shows and pieces that are more favorable for her students. Plus she works with her kids a year or months ahead of time on the selection that are in the show of choice long before they are announced. S, for example, is sure that they will be doing "West Side Story" and with his swarthy appearance, he sure as heck will not be Tony, as the other young man with the voice to carry the role is blond. And yet at the state and outside competitions, S's voice scores and monologue results have consistently been much higher that the other student's. S won the supporting actor award for high school productions in this area with his role, whereas the young man at his school with the lead was not even nominated for best actor. And watching the production, there was no question that S stole the show anytime he was on stage. No one mentioned he should have gotten the lead because he was so phenomonal in the role he did which was a very difficult one and was not a natural for him at all. I can barely picture the lead performance.

Want to let all of you know as a follow up that S performed his audition pieces again, and this time they seemed much better to me. I mentioned before that when he performed at an end of year showcase, I was ambivalent. Well, I think a big part of the problem, on my part is that the piece is very obscure; I had never heard it before and I had no context to judge it. According to a few people in the know, he is doing well with the selection and it is a very difficult one that shows the range and power of his voice well but something that will not appeal to most kids as an audition piece because it is not well known. His second major selection is also in this category, and as I become more familiar with it, the better it sounds. The kid singing "Extraordinary" or the songs from "Chorus Line " or "Master of the House" will get a bigger applause on an entertainment basis because we all know and love those catchy songs. It is more difficult to judge the pieces we have never heard, I have found. This had been bothering me for over a month after his initial peformance.

Shauna, any way you can audition for the more advanced Voice class before school officially begins? That is usually the biggest difference between going as a Voice concentration vs Drama or Dance. Many times if the instructor can hear that you clearly belong in the more advanced section, he will prefer to have you there. And if there is doubt, then better you start with the basics.

This unfortunately can happen at any school with any program but for MT programs that are being collaborated among departments without a central casting source, it is a major pitfall. S found some schools where there was animosity among the departments and so even if the college had strong voice, music and dance departments, collaborating among them was very difficult because of the lack of cooperation among them and conflicting scheduling.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 10:49 am: Edit

Mezzomom...Enjoyed your travel guide from Otterbein/Westerville. Having been there, I can echo your impressions. You are quite accurate in your portrayal of the campus/town. It is inviting.
We were able to see a performance of THE MUSIC MAN at Otterbein this spring. It, too, was quite remarkable. We live in an area that offers remarkable theater and music performances ALL the time. We're lucky to attend many of these performances. It also spoils you when you go out of town to see something. You can get really picky. But the Otterbein performance measured up. So FOREVER PLAID was not an aberration!

On another topic...here's an update on summer camp at OCU after a week....Daughter is loving it! A typical day starts with a workout using the OCU recreational/gym facilities ...breakfast....dance class....a master class in acting...lunch....master class in voice...dinner...rehearsal...bedtime! They will be performing the show Cinderella at the end of camp. The show was cast on the first or second day. Master classes are all with OCU faculty members from dance, voice, or theater. Topics have included the Meisner technique, technical voice coaching, choosing audition material, etc. If a student is interested in auditioning at OCU, this camp gives a good opportunity to work with the faculty and to become familiar with the facilities there. Daughter says they regularly have class in the room where the vocal auditions will take place so they will be familiar with the surroundings. Several of the master class instructors are among those who will judge the auditions. There will be familiar faces when the audition takes place. It's a very positive experience after week one!

By Courtbroadway17 (Courtbroadway17) on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 12:07 pm: Edit

I was just looking at course requirements for MT at the following schools Ithaca, IWU, Elon, Cornell College, OWU, and CMU. My two favorites were Ithaca, and IWU. While I liked the breadth of drama and acting courses required at CMU, the music ones were kind of a let down. I was expecting music theory, sight singing and piano lessons, but the only required courses listed were Voice I - IV. I was disappointed about that. The curriculum for MT at CMU looked like a acting major with a little voice, and dance. Am I mistaken, because this school is highly recommended for MT? Cornell and OWU were essentially interdisciplinary majors. At Cornell it is a BSS major administrated under the Music school, basically you form your own major in Music, and in a liberal arts program. At OWU it was essentially the same thing, except OWU did list the music requirements. Elon U. looked like a great balance in theaterm, music, and dance, however all 3 seemed to have minor requirements compared to the other colleges' MT requirements.

So here is my list in terms of best MT major requirements.

Ithaca & IWU
CMU
Elon
OWU
Cornell College

By Gkoukla (Gkoukla) on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 02:01 pm: Edit

Mezzomom: Have you looked at Shenandoah Conservatory for MT? They encompass voice nicely into their program AND it's a United Methodist school. It's in Winchester, VA, another fabulous small town with such spunk! The students do much performing in Washington, DC, at the Kennedy Center, etc. Check them out.

Also, just my two cents into casting woes. I know many students in colleges who are never cast in a main stage show in the entire four years of school. Then, after graduation, they do great things, mostly. Go figure.

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Wow, what a maelstrom I released with the comment on casting disappointments. Let me say I knew that was not our solo experience but I never thought I would get so many personal e-mails commiserating with your experiences. Thanks – I’ll try and get back to each of you because I appreciate your taking the time to send your support – but it will take me time.

I am amazed at the number of you whose kids attend schools that have other kids interested in MT as a career. As far as I know my S is the only one in his class of 850 students and I don’t know of another in the class that just graduated.

Any way thanks for your support. Let me leave you all with something S gets told time and again. Michael Jordan got cut from his high school basket ball team until his senior year. Now the guy is known as the coach that cut Michael Jordan. Our hopes are S is talented enough for people to someday say the same about this director.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 11:57 pm: Edit

Clueless, we know a lot of kids who are interested in MT but as I look at the ones who have gone on to college and beyond, very few end up in MT programs. I don't think anyone made it from S's school this year, though several kids did get into some conservatories for instrument or voice. Some of the kids who were in every Performing Arts event are going off as Poli Sci or English or other major.

And several of the kids that we do know were not kids who were big in the highschool or even the local MT scene. The young lady from Pittsburgh in Bombay Dreams was more known for her prowress on the piano. Can't remember ever seeing her in a MT performance in school. The girl who is at Tisch, as I mentioned earlier, never got anything than company roles.

I have heard that Jamie Lee Curtis did not get roles at Choate, Jody Foster did not snag leads at Yale, and Brooke Shields at Princeton...? I do know that at my college reunion, a friend of mine who is now a writer of some renown, reminisced with me how her work was turned down by the college literary magazine. The editor is now an insurance salesman! And so it goes. It sound like your S is handling it well and I give him a lot of credit for that.

By Baymom (Baymom) on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 02:43 pm: Edit

At my S's high school there have been very talented kids over the years who have gone on for a BA in theater or a degree in music. Only one has gone the MT route (He's at Syracuse). A lot of kids are discouraged by the odds. Because our school is a college prep school and challenging academically most get academic scholarships and go on to more "practical" fields. In S's class there is one other girl who is considering MT but will probably end up going vocal performance because of the odds for females and because voice is her biggest strength.

By Catsmom (Catsmom) on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 05:12 pm: Edit

HERE IS AN UPDATE OF THE SUMMER CMU SUMMER PROGRAM - WEEK 3. I WAS SUPPOSED TO GO TO PARENTS WEEKEND TODAY, BUT MY MOTHER GOT SICK AND WAS SUPPOSED TO GO WITH ME. BUT D WAS AMBIVALENT AS TO WHETHER IT MATTERED IF I CAME OR NOT, AS IT SEEMED MOST PARENTS WERE NOT. SHE SAID SHE HAS A LOT OF READING TO DO THIS WEEKEND AND NEEDS TO GO SEE A PLAY THAT THE PLAYWRITING GRADUATES ARE PUTTING ON. I'M VERY PROUD OF HER FOR NOT "NEEDING" ME TO COME. SHE DOES NOT SEEM THE LEAST BIT HOMESICK. I ASKED HER IF ANYONE LEFT EARLY, AND SHE SAID ONLY 1 PERSON FROM MUSICAL THEATER LEFT THAT SHE KNEW OF AND A FEW FROM THE ACADEMIC PROGRAM.

LAST NIGHT SHE CALLS ME FROM THE PIANO ROOM WHERE SHE AND ANOTHER GUY SING A DUET FOR ME OVER THE PHONE THAT THEY WILL PERFORMING FOR THE TALENT SHOW FOR THE PARENTS THIS WEEKEND. IT WAS NICE TO HEAR, AS I MISS HER SINGING AROUND THE HOUSE.

ONE OF HER FAVORITE CLASSES IS AN EXTRA CURRICULAR CLASS CALLED AUGUSTO BALL (SPELLING?). IT SEEMS TO BE AN ACTING/IMPROV TYPE CLASS, BUT SHE REALLY LOVES IT AND RECOMMENDS IT TO THOSE NEXT YEAR. NEXT WEEK THEY ARE STARTING A TAP CLASS THAT IS ALSO AN EXTRA CURRICULAR ACTIVITY. YOU NEED PREVIOUS TAP EXPERIENCE TO BE IN THE CLASS, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE VERY POPULAR IN THAT A LOT OF THE KIDS WANT TO TAKE IT. I HOPE SHE GETS IN AS THIS IS HER SPECIALTY AS FAR AS DANCE GOES.

SHE SAID THE KIDS ARE ALL VERY SUPPORTIVE OF EACH OTHER AND THEY ARE VERY CLOSE. THEY DO A LOT OF THE READING TOGETHER WHICH ALSO HELPS. I THINK SHE IS GOING TO COME HOME WITH VERY IMPROVED STUDY HABITS.

I TOLD HER TO TRY TO GET OVER TO SEE POINT PARK IF SHE HAS TIME, AS IT IS ONLY 10 MINUTES AWAY. I DROVE BY IT WHEN I WAS THERE DROPPING HER OFF AND IT SEEMS LESS LIKE A REAL CAMPUS (WHICH CARNEGIE MELLON IS) AND MORE LIKE BUILINGS IN A DOWNTOWN SETTING.

ANYWAY, SHE SEEMS HAPPY & HEALTHY AND I AM VERY PLEASED THAT WE SENT HER.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 10:01 pm: Edit

There is an interesting article about Sigourney Weaver in this month's issue of More magazine. Here are a few quotes I thought you might enjoy.

After attending private schools in Manhattan and Connecticut and Stanford University, she enrolled at the Yale School of Drama. She hated it - "I think unfortunately I can't get my money back." - but details her hatred so gleefully that you get the feeling she's earned back every penny. The school, she says, was filled with rigid instructors who believed that the best way to build young actors was to tear apart their confidence. She also felt miscast. "They wanted to make me a leading lady," she says. "And I didn't want to be a leading lady. I wanted to be a really odd, too tall, backward kind of ingenue."

She relates a story about her daughter, Charlotte, now the lead in her school play. When, upon being cast, Charlotte suggested that she was following in her mother's footsteps, Weaver agreed. "Were you ever the lead in your school play?" she asked her mother. Told no, Charlotte replied, "Well. I guess my footsteps will be bigger then."

"I think I'm a really late bloomer," Weaver concludes. "And I try to tell young people that all the time, because there's so much pressure on them to do everything right - to do everything, period! I think muddling around is a very healthy kind of thing. It's an unfinished thing, life - it is."

By Shauna (Shauna) on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 12:16 pm: Edit

To add with what Dancersmom said about Sigourney Weaver...

I believe her hatred of Yale was exacerbated by the fact that during her time there, all the faculty were concentrating on another talented young actress...by the name of Meryl Streep.

Shauna

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 01:02 pm: Edit

Catsmom,

You are right abou the campus at Point Park. When we visited it, they refer to it as a vertical campus. The buildings go UP not around like on a large campus. I believe there was one building where the dorm rooms are on the upper floors and classes are on the lower floors. My daughter actually thought this was pretty cool since you wouldn't have to go but an elevator ride down first thing in the morning!!!

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 10:18 pm: Edit

Totally off topic, but has anybody seen De-Lovely? It's not showing in our area--and it doesn't look like it's going to. If anyone has seen it, is it worth a trip out of town to see it?

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 05:34 pm: Edit

This is going to be a really long post, sorry!

I just did a bunch of research yesterday about the courses I would have to take and such, so I thought I would post all the information I found.

UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS

GENERAL REQUIREMENTS

A minimum of 129-138 semester hours (including a common core of 37 hours and an additional 44-54 hours, depending on the concentration), of which 42 must be advanced, 24 earned in residence, and fulfillment of musical theatre core requirements as well as the course requirements of the concentration of your choice.

Also…it is quite possible to get a minor along with your BFA!

CORE REQUIREMENTS

I'm not going to post all the individual courses here; you can find that at this link:
http://www.unt.edu/catalogs/2004-05/core.html

1. English Composition and Rhetoric (6 hours)
2. Mathematics (3 hours)
3. Natural Sciences (8 hours)
4. U.S. History (6 hours)
5. Political Science (6 hours)
6. Wellness (3 hours)
7. Visual and Performing Arts (3 hours)
8. Humanities (3 hours)
9. Social and Behavioral Sciences (3 hours)
10. Communication (3 hours)
11. Cross-cultural, Diversity and Global Studies (3 hours)

AP CREDIT

UNT is incredibly generous when it comes to giving credit for AP tests; credit is given for every single test, and for a 3,4, or 5. By passing Eng Lang, US Hist, Comp Sci, Eng Lit, Span Lang, and Stats, I got 41 hours of credit! Except for Comp Sci, all of those tests placed me entirely out of the corresponding core curriculum courses. So no English, Math, US History, Humanities, or Communication for me. :-) As you will see, there is not a lot of extra space for electives. Because with AP's and such I will have something like 35 or 40 hours of electives, I am going to fill it up with dance technique classes.

MUSICAL THEATRE COURSES

If you want to see everything the theatre and dance department offers, go here:
http://www.unt.edu/catalogs/2004-05/ucdance.html

If you want to see everything the music department offers, go here:
http://www.unt.edu/catalogs/2004-05/ucmusic.html

Otherwise, here are the musical theatre core requirements:

THEA 1043 – Costume I

THEA 1045 – Performance I

THEA 1046 - Introduction to Stagecraft: Scenery, Lighting, Props and Sound

THEA 2051 – Voice for Theatre

THEA 2350 – Performance II

THEA 2351 – Movement for Theatre

THEA 2380 – Theatrical Makeup

THEA 2440 – Play Analysis

THEA 4500 – Topics in Dance and Theatre Arts

DANC 1710 – Tap I

2 hours from one or more of the following:
MULB 1801 – A Capella Choir
MULB 1802 – Concert Choir
MULB 1803 – Women's Chorus
MULB 1804 – Recital Choir (by audition only)
MULB 1815 – Men's Chorus
MULB 1820 – Chamber Choir
(these are one hour each; take one twice or two different ones)

THEA 1095 (2 hours total) – Stage Production I (one hour, taken twice)

THEA 4095 (2 hours total) – Stage Production II (one hour, taken twice)

3 hours from one of the following:
DANC 1410 – Ballet I
DANC 2410 – Ballet II
DANC 3410 – Ballet III
DANC 4410 – Ballet IV

SINGING CONCENTRATION COURSES

These are the courses you would take if you were taking a singing concentration. Don't forget to audition for the music program! Otherwise you take MUAS (secondary) instead of MUAC (concentration) for your private voice lessons until you can audition and make it into the concentration program. You aren't allowed to take as many lessons if you are in a secondary (you can only take MUAS 1503 and MUAS 3503 for 1-2 credit hours per semester), and taking MUAS doesn't count toward your degree.

THEA 3140 – Performance III

MUTH 1400 – Theory I

MUTH 1410 – Aural Skills I

MUTH 1500 – Theory II

MUTH 1510 – Aural Skills II

MUAC 1503 (8 hours total) – Lower-Level Applied Music - Private Voice (1-3 credit hours for concentrations per semester)

MUAC 3503 (4 hours total) – Upper-Level Applied Music - Private Voice (1-3 credit hours for concentrations per semester)

MUAG 4890 - Seminar in Performance and Repertoire

MUEN 3040 (3 hours total) – Opera Theatre (taken three times)
or
THEA 4140 – Performance IV

THEA 2360 – Repertory Theatre

THEA 4000 – The Modern American Musical Theatre
or
MUMH 4070 – Operatic Literature

THEA 4360 – Advanced Repertory Theatre

THEA 4400 (2 hours) – Theatre Symposium (taken twice)

THEA 4500 (6 hours in addition to core) – Topics in Dance and Theatre Arts (taken twice in addition to core for three times total)

2 semesters from one of the following (pick one class and take it a full year):
DANC 2400 – Modern II
or
DANC 2500 – Jazz II

DANCE CONCENTRATION COURSES

MUTH 1260 – Music Fundamentals

MUTH 1400 – Theory I

MUTH 1410 – Aural Skills I

4 hours from one of the following:
MUAG 1124 – Voice Class for Non-Music Majors
or
MUAS 1503 – Lower-Level Applied Music - Private Voice

THEA 2360 – Repertory Theatre

THEA 3910 (2 hours total, taken twice) – Stage and Film Performance

THEA 4000 – The Modern American Musical Theatre

THEA 4360 – Advanced Repertory Theatre

THEA 4400 (2 hours) – Theatre Symposium (taken twice)

THEA 4500 (6 hours in addition to core) – Topics in Dance and Theatre Arts (taken twice in addition to core for three times total)

DANC 1250 – Somatic Approaches to Music

DANC 2410 – Ballet II
or
DANC 3410 – Ballet III
or
DANC 4410 – Ballet IV

3 hours from one of the following:
DANC 2710 – Tap II
DANC 4650 – Senior Project
DANC 4610 – Effort/Shape
or
DANC 4620 – Space Harmony

2 semesters total from one of the following (pick one class and take it a full year):
DANC 2400 – Modern II
DANC 2500 – Jazz II
DANC 3400 – Modern III
or
DANC 4400 – Modern IV

ACTING CONCENTRATION CLASSES

MUTH 1260 – Music Fundamentals

MUTH 1400 – Theory I

MUTH 1410 – Aural Skills I

4 hours total (1 hour each, combined for 4 hours):
MUAG 1124 – Voice Class for Non-Music Majors
and/or
MUAS 1503 – Lower-Level Applied Music - Private Voice

MUAG 4890 – Seminar in Performance and Repertoire

MUEN 3040 – Opera Theatre
or
THEA 4140 – Performance IV

THEA 3910 (2 hours total, taken twice) – Stage and Film Performance

THEA 2360 – Repertory Theatre

THEA 3140 – Performance III

THEA 4000 – The Modern American Musical Theatre

THEA 4290 – Musical Theatre Direction and Management

THEA 4360 – Advanced Repertory Theatre

THEA 4400 (2 hours) – Theatre Symposium (taken twice)

THEA 4500 (6 hours in addition to core) – Topics in Dance and Theatre Arts (taken twice in addition to core for three times total)

2 semesters total from one of the following (pick one class and take it a full year):
DANC 2400 – Modern II
or
DANC 2500 – Jazz II

Hope that was informative!

Shauna

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Shauna--OK, here's a question. Let's say my D wants to have a voice concentration at UNT, but she's an advanced dancer. You said before, I think, that without a voice concentration you have to take 2nd best voice classes. Would D have 2nd best dance classes by not concentrating in dance? I'm trying to figure out if its only the voice concentration that creates this "1st class" or "2nd class" system, or if it would be true for acting and dancing classes as well. I'm guessing it's just voice since it's not part of the theatre and dance department??

Everyone--If you have first-hand knowledge about the dance component of the MT programs, please feel free to read over that section of the FAQ and give me feedback in case something needs to be added or amended. Thanks!

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 07:21 pm: Edit

Mtmommy--

As far as I understand it, if your D concentrated in dance, she could still take 1st class voice classes if she was judged to be "worthy" of the concentration level classes. However, I am not entirely sure, because I think that you have to take so many classes per semester to stay at the concentration level. However it sounds like if she's good enough and takes enough classes it doesn't matter what concentration she has. Again, though, I'm not sure, but I think the 1st class/2nd class system is for degree requirements only and not necessarily indicative of the level of training you will get.

As far as dance goes, I am totally confused. It looks like the dance classes are only one semester classes but that doesn't make sense! I've been at this for hours now so I'm going to call them on Monday and figure out exactly how the dance stuff works.

Shauna

By Peggy (Peggy) on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 09:58 pm: Edit

Because my daughter's strength is Dance, I read that part of the FAC with interest! I only had two comments.

Oklahoma City University tells you before you even arrive that the dance audition is not part of the actual audition. It is used strictly for placement.

Millikin University has a dance minor you can take in addition to the MT program, as does Otterbein.

Also (OK, third comment), while at the CMU Pre-College program, Steph was told by MT students that some strong dancers take classes at Point Park to keep up their skills.

Peg

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 10:03 pm: Edit

Peg--great info, thanks! Is the Otterbein minor the dance concentration that I already put in there or something different?

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 10:23 pm: Edit

Mtmommy:

Actually, I can answer that one. We do offer a Dance Minor which is separate from the BFA in Musical Theatre with a Concentration in Dance. It's designed for students who want to maintain and increase their dance skills while majoring in other subjects.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 12:31 am: Edit

Doctorjohn--Thanks! I put the info into the faq language and sent it off to Shauna.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 03:42 pm: Edit

I hate to bring up cuts again, but someone who really knows this stuff told me that admitting 30 to a major program like MT with the intention of cutting the class to 20 after sophomore year is actually ILLEGAL. Has anyone else heard this? If this is true, why do some schools continue to do it?

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 04:14 pm: Edit

Jrmom:

I'd sure like to know if that were true. (I've never heard it, although I wouldn't disagree with such a ruling.) Without revealing your source, can you get more information from him or her about the basis of that statement?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 04:55 pm: Edit

While not knowledgeable about the legality issue, I just think it likely is legal to cut students, even if you don't agree with it and I also feel some of it is questionable. But if a school outlines criteria for dismissal from the program, I wonder how that is illegal. It is all upfront. You know the policy when you apply.

As I have mentioned in other posts, I am not into cuts based on talent, once admitted, though do think schools can dismiss students if they are not complying with requirements or things of that nature. I also would be more into reviews and warnings or improvement plans. If it is simply not being talented enough, I do have a bit of trouble with that concept but at least it is spelled out ahead of time. It is something one must weigh when choosing where to apply.

I know my child is still interested in looking into CCM for instance. I was just talking with a CCM student recently when I was attending my daughter's performance weekend at her summer theater program. That student used to go to the same summer program and my daughter knows her, and her younger sister still attends and is friend of my D's. Anyway, she loves CCM. I asked about the cuts and she said they do exist and she has had friends cut from the program. She just said it was intense and that was the nature of the program. So, I don't know how it would be illegal. Rather it is more like a policy that some might agree with or not. But at least it is upfront.

I prefer artistic reviews and then suggestions for improvement and so on. Dismissal from an educational program should be for more gross noncompliance with expectations (example, not attending class, not getting work in on time or of poor quality), rather than simply talent. I think the judgement of talent itself was in the admissions procedure. The way they intend to wittle the class down is questionable. I would rather think they just deal with cases as they arise and in some years, there are no problems and in others, some might exist, but not be a given from the outset. Also, I like how at Dr. John's school, they have kids audition for showcases (which NYU does too) and that is a way that the program can control who goes that level. I think if someone is doing the work itself, they deserve to graduate. I don't think only the top people should be able to continue in any educational program. After all, it IS education. The test is later on in getting the job.

In any case, I think if the cut policy is problematic for someone, they should not apply to programs that use it.

I would be interested where you heard it was illegal. Was it from anyone knowledgeable with theater programs?

Susan

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 08:15 pm: Edit

Susan (and DrJohn) -

Definitely knowledgeable. Sorry I can't say more.

So I guess it is my child's choice to decide how heavily to factor the "cut" variable in deciding where to apply. Still, the possible illegality I find interesting (but have no way to follow up, sorry).

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 08:18 pm: Edit

Shauna,
How about part 22 - this one's getting heavy!
thanks!

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Jrmom, something that is ILLEGAL is breaking some law. Can you get a cite on which law is being broken?

Yeah, it appears that all of us has to make that decision with our children on how heavily to factor the "cut" variable. I feel the parents need to have input in that decision because in many cases, the schools that have great MT programs may have little to offer a student who is cut from such program. Actually that is a factor that does come to mind with me, even outside of the cut program when looking at schools. If the student changes his mind, never mind getting cut, what other options are available to him at a particular college? Food for thought.

Welcome back, Susan. Hugs to your brave daughter. Hope all is healing well. My son was up and going right after surgery. Oh to be that young again! Let us know how "Anita" is doing. Gosh, the countdown is starting for this new group.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 08:33 pm: Edit

Jamimom, Yes, I didn't use that word lightly. And no, sorry, can't get a case law citation.

I agree that parents have to help our kids see the "big picture" here - such as "having invested tens of thousands on a school and two years of time, do you want to take a chance (however small it may seem now) on being asked to LEAVE?"

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 10:21 pm: Edit

Hi Jamimom....you are right, lots of stuff to weigh. And yes, a new countdown with this next set of kids. I am in a lull in that regard with the child who will apply this fall as she is away for six weeks and then this stuff BEGINS!

Thanks for your thoughts on my 17 year old regarding the wisdom teeth surgery. Very surprisingly, it has been 2 1/2 days since she had them removed and there has been NO pain or discomfort and she has no trouble eating, basically no effects! They warned us of how it would be but it has not come true, thankfully. She even went to a sleepover last night a day and half after the surgery. All her friends who had had this done were in awe that she was there and how she felt fine! In fact, cause of the recovery we were told to expect, my daughter had arranged to not work tomorrow and now that she feels so good (though the doctor said the worst can be a few days later but fingers crossed), we are going to take advantage of a free day and do college shopping. That is the fun part of the process, lol.

As far as my younger one, the one going for MT BFA programs.....she loved playing Anita in West Side. Last weekend was performance weekend there (they do three 3-week sessions and each session puts on 13 full scale productions in such a short time, on top of classes, etc., plus she is simultaneously rehearsing for her cabaret production which I also saw). West Side was wonderful (and I saw five other shows!) and she seemed well suited to that role. I can see why she was cast that way. Now, she is cast in another musical which will be performed in two more weeks and we will be traveling back down for that. She is thrilled with which show she got into, the one she wanted, Nine! She is doing a role she also said she is so happy with, Liliane La Fleur. In the revival, that was the role played by Chita Rivera. I have to laugh cause this is the third Chita Rivera role she has played, including Anita and also once played Rose in Bye Bye Birdie. It seems like a little trend! Now, the key is, she should only follow in SUCH footsteps, lol! Is your son doing any shows over the summer?

Susan

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 11:19 pm: Edit

Susan,
I'm glad to hear that your D is recovering well from her surgery. My D, Emily, just had all 4 of her wisdom teeth removed on July 1. All is well with her. She had no complications, just looked like a chipmunk for a few days. She did have some trouble opening her mouth very far for several days. That's very common after the surgery. When I had mine done at age 22, I had so much trouble opening my mouth that I couldn't use a toothbrush for several days. Emily didn't have near that degree of muscle tightness. She did have to skip a week of voice lessons and a week and a half of dance classes though. She would say that she did have some pain the 1st couple of days. Some of it was due to her not liking to take the pain medication her doctor prescribed. It made her feel high and she didn't like that. She did have to restrict herself to a soft diet for a little more than a week.

I would recommend to all the parents that you talk with your dentist or orthodontist about whether removing your child's wisdom teeth is recommended or not. With our kids auditions, summer workshops, rehearsals, and performances we need to plan for oral surgery well in advance. Emily's orthodontist told us that hers would need to come out a couple of years ago. At the time, only 2 of the wisdom teeth had formed. They were growing at a 45 degree angle to her other teeth. He told us they would eventually have to come out because they would knock her teeth out of alignment. This summer was the 1st time she's had a long enough break in her schedule that she could schedule the surgery. You all know what these kids' schedules are like. Emily finished her stage combat training (and is now certified in 5 weapons and has actor/combatant status with the SAFD) on June 30 and had surgery the next day. Her performing job at Paramount Kings Island started July 9. That 8 day break is about the longest she's had in memory. That's why it's taken us over two years to find time to schedule the surgery! We knew we definitely wanted to have it done before she started college. We're all relieved it's taken care of now.

By Mtfan (Mtfan) on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 12:22 am: Edit

Has anyone auditioned at SUNY Fredonia? Whats the audition like?

By Prima_Donna (Prima_Donna) on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 11:18 am: Edit

Okay, as you may have gathered from my previous posts, I'm a bit worried about auditions. I'm looking at which schools I should audition for. I pretty good when it comes to monologues, singing is fair, and dancing is fair. However, I have potential for singing. I was wondering where you think I should audition. I have good SAT scores: 1420 (710 in verbal and math), 4.1 weighted GPA. I was wondering if there were any schools that would look more at my transcript than at my audition. Which schools put more weight on your academic record than your audition?
I see quite a few people who have been trained in Opera who go on to musical theatre. Anyone have any thoughts? Also, I was rwading my playbill for Phantom and saw that the guy who portrayed Raoul had a BS in Psychology. Where do people like this get their training from and how do they manage to compete with people who have graduated from the top MT schools?

By Prima_Donna (Prima_Donna) on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 12:24 pm: Edit

I have another question. When you major in voice at a school, is that classical voice or opera or what? What type of singing do you learn? TO get good opera training do you have to major in Opera instead of voice? I'm definitely starting to consider the opera thing. I've been told my range is geared toward classical music.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 12:52 pm: Edit

Here you go, Jrmom:

CONTINUED AT PART 22.