| By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 10:08 am: Edit |
Here are links to Parts 1 and 2 of this thread:
Part 1 http://www.collegeconfidential.com/discus/messages/4/66659.html
Part 2 http://www.collegeconfidential.com/discus/messages/4/70728.html
Preach, Doctorjohn!
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 10:54 pm: Edit |
Thanks, Thesbo. Here it is, finally:
Dear Primab:
Your dilemma is not unusual. Bright, academically-inclined students are often torn between the BFA and the BA degree. The BFA offers pre-professional training and (perhaps) a quicker route into the profession, but at the cost of a broad liberal arts education and in-depth study of other fields. The BA offers the latter, but will likely not provide time for the essential work on the voice and the body. So how to decide on the best path?
First, some clarification. A Bachelor of Fine Arts (BFA) degree is typically around 60-70% of the total curriculum, with the remaining 30-40% in general studies and electives. Here, for example, is the breakdown of our BFA in Acting (using the categories established by NAST, the National Association of Schools of Theatre):
Acting, Voice, Movement, and Performance: 33%
Supportive Courses in Theatre: 29%
General Studies: 29%
Electives: 8%
And here is the breakdown of our BFA in Musical Theatre:
Musical Theatre (Voice, Acting, Performance): 35%
Dance and Movement: 9%
Supportive Courses in Music and Theatre: 27%
General Studies: 29%
Our BFA degrees are fairly similar to those at Michigan, NYU, and Penn State, among others, where there are significant general education requirements. Pure conservatory programs (CCM, Boston Conservatory) have fewer requirements in general education.
By comparison, a Bachelor of Arts degree (BA) is typically around 30% of the curriculum, with the remaining 70% divided between general education and electives (Including other majors). Here is the breakdown of our BA in Theatre:
Theatre Studies: 20%
Performance and Theatre Electives: 10%
General Education: 41% (more because of math and foreign language)
Electives: 29%
It should be immediately obvious that the BA degree offers a much greater degree of flexibility in the program. It also has a lot more "free" time. I just looked at the schedules for our freshman BA majors, BFA Acting majors, and BFA Musical Theatre/Dance majors next year. All of them have 18 credit hours, the maximum allowed without paying an overload fee. (We're on the quarter system, three 10-week terms in an academic year. Schools on the semester system--two 15-week terms in an academic year--typically require 12 credit hours per term.) Eighteen hours sounds reasonable in a 40-hour week, because it leaves 22 hours of research and reading and thinking and preparation time for those 18 hours in class.
Ah, but contact hours don't necessarily match credit hours, and especially not for BFA programs. Our BA majors next year will spend 19 hours in class for those 18 credits. Sounds just about right. But our Acting majors will spend 31 hours in class, and our Musical Theatre/Dance majors will spend 39 hours in class for 18 credits. That means that songs and monologues get learned, scenes rehearsed and papers written in the evenings (if you're not in rehearsal) or in the late evenings (if you are in rehearsal). For some, that's a desirable lifestyle; for others, it would be hell not having time to think.
So which is right for you? Try answering the following questions by circling the appropriate number from 1 to 5, where 1 = strongly disagree and 5 = strongly agree. (Ignore for the moment whether it's a positive or negative number.)
I can't imagine doing anything besides acting in the professional theatre. Really.
1 2 3 4 5
I am a singer and a dancer, and I would love to spend my life doing musicals.
1 2 3 4 5
I want to learn everything about everything.
-1 -2 -3 -4 -5
Except for being onstage, my favorite place is the library or my room, curled up with a great book.
-1 -2 -3 -4 -5
Except for being onstage, my favorite place is in dance class, or acting class, or choir.
1 2 3 4 5
I'm very physical, and I'm at my best when I'm active and busy all the time.
1 2 3 4 5
I'm very intellectual, and I'm at my best when I have time to think and write.
-1 -2 -3 -4 -5
OK, now add up your score, and now pay attention to whether it's a positive or negative number. If I've counted right, the scores can range from -11 to +17. This may be the most unscientific questionnaire ever created, but my suspicion is that if your score is in the high positive numbers, you're going to be happy in a BFA program and unhappy in a BA program; and vice versa, if your score is in the negative numbers, you're going to happier in a BA than in a BFA program. As I said, it's a guess. If there's someone out there who's a psychologist, and wants to help me do a study, give me a call.
But is a BA program going to lead to a career in acting? I decided to look at the backgrounds of the 2004 Tony winners for acting. Here are the results:
Leading Actress
Play: Phylicia Rashad, BFA, Howard University
Musical: Idina Menzel, BFA, New York University
Leading Actor
Play: Jefferson Mays, BA, Yale University; MFA, U. California San Diego
Musical: Hugh Jackman, BA (Journalism), University of Technology, Sydney, Australia; Certificate (equivalent of our MFA) Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts
Featured Actress
Play: Audra McDonald, BM (Voice), Juilliard
Musical: Anika Noni Rose, (unknown undergraduate); MFA, American Conservatory Theatre
Featured Actor
Play: Brian F. O'Bryne, unknown
Musical: Michael Cerveris, BA (unknown major), Yale
I also looked at biographies of Meryl Streep and Robin Williams, two of the most gifted actors I know. Streep went to Vassar, where she did a BA in English, then did an MFA at Yale. Williams started out at Claremont Men's College (now Claremont McKenna) studying political science, got interested in improvisation, transferred briefly to College of Marin, then won a full scholarship to Juilliard. He spent two years there, but then, at John Houseman's suggestion, he left before finishing the degree and moved to LA to do stand-up comedy. (Excellent biographies of these two and others have been written by Dominic Wills and are available at ww.tiscali.co.uk/entertainment/film/biographies.)
There are a couple of different conclusions one might draw from this incredibly brief survey. One is that intensive professional training in music or theatre is essential. With the exception of Cerveris, all have either BFA or MFA degrees or their equivalent. And Cerveris' biography states that he studied classical voice at Yale.
But another observation might be that an undergraduate BA degree, or at least some years spent studying something besides acting, may also be very important. I find it fascinating that both Mays and Cerveris attended Yale, which doesn't have an undergraduate degree in Theatre; Streep majored in English at Vassar; Jackman majored in Journalism; and even Willliams spent some time studying political science. I don't think any of them would say that those years were wasted.
The conclusion might be, finally, that while intensive training is critical to success in our field, the real question is not whether, but WHEN. If you have no interest in academics, aren't going to be happy unless you're in class and rehearsal at least eight hours a day, then you should do a BFA in dance or theatre or a BM in music. But if you love academics, want to study everything, need quiet time to read and write and think, then you may well want to do a BA degree in any subject at a school where you can act as much as you want, and obtain a better sense of yourself and the world before you commit yourself to the intensive professional training which an MFA requires. The middle ground, which works for some, is a BFA program that requires or at least encourages a significant amount of work in fields besides voice, dance, movement and acting.
I hope this gets you a little closer to knowing what you want to do. I'd urge you to look at several kinds of programs, a liberal arts college with a terrific theatre program that allows open participation from anyone in the college (or a major university with several theatre clubs open to everyone); a respected conservatory with intensive professional training; and a school with a mixture of professional training and liberal arts education. I think you'll discover fairly quickly from the students themselves which kind of program is the best fit for you.
There are many ways to succeed in our business, Primab, but finally you have to do it in the way which makes you the happiest. Too many people are successful in their fields, but miserable doing it. You don't have to end up that way. You can make a better choice.
Good luck.
| By Primab (Primab) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 11:21 pm: Edit |
I don't even know where to begin. Thank you for that amazing post. That took a lot of your time and I am certain you will help not just me but many on this site with a similar dilemma. I am new to CC so I don't know which school you are speaking of when you talk about "our" BFA, etc. Can you tell us?
While I know that theater will be my life-I am inclined to go for the BA-majoring in theater- and follow with a BFA in acting (I don't aspire to do musical theater). The reason being is I want to make sure I have something to fall back on since the career path for an actor is always risky. I still have time to decide.
I am visitng schools this month with, hopefully, strong BA's in theater (Bard, Vassar, Brown, Amherst and Boston College). I have visited Northwestern and USC already. Any suggestions would be really welcome.
My heartfelt thanks to you for taking the time and energy to post that. I haven't taken the "test" yet but will now. Maybe you are right and the BFA is the way to go.
I look forward to reading more from you.
| By Primab (Primab) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 11:26 pm: Edit |
Doctorjohn-I just clicked on your name and see that you are the Chair of Otterbein's theater dept. It's wonderful that you are here to help those of us at CC interested in theater. I am really awed! Thanks again for the great advise!
| By Valerie (Valerie) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 02:15 am: Edit |
I'm grateful too, Doctorjohn. What a great informative post! I love the survey questions too. What if someone's numbers come out almost even instead of a majority of +'s or -'s?
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 07:21 am: Edit |
Primab: I'm glad you found the post helpful. My suspicion is that a BA followed by an MFA (that's what you meant to write) is the route to go for you. The schools that you've listed (Bard, Vassar, etc.) are certainly terrific places. When you visit, ask about performance opportunities, and not just through the Theatre Department, if there is one. Many of the old-line Eastern schools have drama clubs which produce theatre on a very high level. Some major universities do as well. Extra-curricular theatre at one of these schools can be just as valid a route as doing a BA.
Valerie: I don't know. Never done this before. And any social scientist would take me to task for the questionnaire, I'm sure. My guess is that if the numbers come out almost even, the student might be happiest in a BA program which offered at least some acting classes, as well as the possibility of studying voice; or in a BFA program which made room for significant study of other fields. I think I need to show the survey to some of my colleagues, tweak it and field test it. In the meantime, I'd love to hear results from people!
| By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 11:38 am: Edit |
Oh dear, I got a +9 when I plugged in the numbers that I'm pretty sure my jr would have put in. What does that mean?
Unfortunately, a kid can love to be alone and read widely for the sake of, and the joy of, reading - love quiet time for reading, thinking and writing, but still really DISLIKE being in a wide range of school classes and strongly prefer performance classes to liberal arts classes.
Maybe the one question on this be two questions?
1) Except for being onstage, my favorite place is the library or my room, curled up with a great book AND I enjoy studying all subjects in class
2) Except for being onstage, my favorite place is the library or my room, curled up with a great book BUT I strongly prefer reading widely on my own to taking a broad range of classes in school
I would suspect this student, despite scoring a 9, would be unhappy in a BA and thrive in a BFA, but not because of any dislike of being along to read, think and write.
This is an interesting process. Can't wait to hear what your colleagues say about the questionnaire!
| By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 11:56 am: Edit |
Jrmom, I took the survey and answered how I believe my D would have and came up with a 1. Although it's kind of a fun concept, I hope that students don't rely on those questions to help them make a decision between a BFA or BA program. I know that my daughter is as passionate as anyone about her performing and love of drama but she is equally passionate about other things. She's actually a very well-rounded kid and from my experience with her friends that she went to an arts high school with and also her friends at Tisch, they are very similar. Many are also gifted writers, musicians, athletes, math contest winners. I hope no one is being discouraged from a BFA program because they want to be able to get a good academic education as well. Certainly at Tisch, you can, and are encouraged to, do both. Most of my D's friends will double major in the College of Arts and Science. I suspect that this is the reason that academics is equally weighted in the admissions process. There are many options for our kids who love drama and it's important that they research all of them in order to find one which is the best fit for them, and for all aspects of their lives.
| By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 01:00 pm: Edit |
I have a lot of questions today....
Does anyone know if a kid who has not had a lot of music background (main training in acting, dance and voice in that order; no theory, no sight-singing courses yet)should even bother to apply to a music based MT program like NYU Steinhart?
| By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 01:01 pm: Edit |
Whoops, I posted in the wrong area! It's hard when there are two such interesting conversations going...:-)
| By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 04:18 pm: Edit |
Alwaysamom, I agree with you. A kid can be extremely passionate about a life in the theater and love doing theater 24/7, but also happen to have other interests or talents. I have a daughter who sounds a bit like your Emily. She definitely wants to pursue musical theater and it has been a deep seated passion since nursery school. There has been no doubt in her mind about going for a BFA in musical theater for years. However, she happens to also be a very good student and has some other talents/skills. I think an attribute of Tisch is how you can have a conservatory experience, yet also study some liberal arts. I think my D is realizing that is likely what she would thrive on, even though at one time she thought a school that was almost all performing arts courses sounded ideal but being able to do a bit of other interests and get some education is now attractive to her as well, even though her prime love is musical theater.
Jrmom....I can just give you my opinion but don't go by what I say, ok? But my feeling is that even in any MT program, voice skills/training, as well as some music background, is going to be a very important. Afterall, singing is a major part of the audition. Then for a place like Steinhardt which is a music school, it is even more significant. In fact, I would imagine at Steinhardt that most students will have had voice training, including some classical singing. For instance, just to audition for All States for voice here, you have to sing classical and have to sight read, etc. I think most students involved in music in high school have this general background. Also since it is so competitive for MT college programs (not talking just Steinhardt now), that most kids who get in likely have some voice training. For example, a good friend of my girls' who is graduating high school this week loves musical theater and auditioned for MT college programs. She has done a LOT of theater, but mostly is cast in ensemble roles. I would say her best skill is dance, where she has had the most training. She only started taking voice lessons maybe 18 months ago (though is in choir things in HS and the musicals and such). She did not get into any of the BFA programs at all. She is a decent singer but not the best. She is going to Indiana University to pursue musical theater but that is a BA program and no audition, plus she had some connections there. Her mom was just telling me that she felt her daughter was at a disadvantage in the vocal area as other auditioners had vocal training. I happen to agree with her. If you think about it, if a program is only taking 5% of the kids who try out, and many are very very good, it is likely the kids who are the best singers and actors who get in and likely these are the kids who might have gotten leads in their hometowns...sort of like the top 5% of kids from each area so to speak. I can't say if music skills are required to go to these schools but it cannot hurt to have a music background. As you can see for Steinhardt, they even mention this. I think even at UMichigan, there is a music theory or piano portion. I believe that the study of music and instruments has been beneficial to my daughter's singing/theater work, even though she does not study music/instruments for that reason but has always played a few. But I can see how it likely has helped in this area too. She can sight read anything. I believe once this actually got her cast.
In any case, if your daughter has not begun some voice lessons, she may want to as it will be very helpful to her as she prepares for auditions. Like your D, mine does a ton of dance but I have this feeling that that is not the main component of the MT college auditions but could enhance her candidacy since not all singers/actors can dance. But I definitely believe that singing is a big part of the audition for MT. In fact, in many major auditions, such as for Broadway, the first cut is singing only. If you make it past that, then you do the reading and dance. That has been our experience. So, I think you should definitely be aware that vocal skills will be paramount and then at Steinhardt, music skills will be as well. These places are so selective that even IF you have all that stuff, it is still hard to get in. I think one would be at a disadvantage with no music or vocal training. That is just my view but I am not as experienced as many who post here so take it with just a grain of salt of one mom to another ;-).
Susan
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 06:01 pm: Edit |
Well, it's clear that the survey needs tweaking. Any and all suggestions are welcome.
I agree with Alwaysamom that I'd hate to see anyone dissuaded from looking at BFA programs because of a score on a questionnaire. But all BFA programs are not alike, and few permit the double-majors that Tisch seems to encourage. Students who want both professional training and a strong academic education need to search out the programs that support this approach philosophically and practically.
Jrmom, what I hear is that answering the survey led to a realization that your daughter wants to read on her own, and doesn't want to be in a wide range of classes. If that's the case, she almost certainly wants to do a BFA, and might well be happy with a more conservatory approach. But Alwaysamom, your score of 1 suggests to me that your daughter really needs to be in a program like Tisch's, where all of her intellectual and artistic needs can be satisfied.
Hope this helps.
| By Valerie (Valerie) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 06:42 pm: Edit |
Doctorjohn, I asked my S to answer your questionnaire. His score came to .5 so he round it off to a 0. I asked him to share his thoughts.
He said because he had a performing arts H.S. background and intense study of Theatre and MT, (with other experiences he has had since he was 6 in the theatre world) his selection of a BFA vs. BA would depend on the program and course of study with any one school. In other words, he has found in his search for colleges that there is a variance of instruction and programs offered per school whether they are BFA or BA concentrated. One school could have a better BA program vs. another school's BFA program etc.
His college route was not only intnese but laborous because of this attitude and search for the best fit. Although, in the end he is Absolutely delighted with his choice of the BA program at UCLA, It needs to be said, that it was without a doubt a difficult decision (other than parental financial ability) to make vs. accepting a highly rated BFA at Tisch. Because as he said, his preference in general is a BFA.
I find it interesting though that his score of 0 reflects his overall attitude and many interests that he indeed will be persuing a BA route of education.
We just recently returned from a visit to UCLA and it's theatre program and I beleive it has confirmed his decision as being the best fit for him. UCLA will give him in the long run the best of all with a (1)concentrated track of Theatre study after freshman year if wanted and accepted into. (2)A BA cirriculum where he can pull and major from a number of courses from All schools and their disciplines of his various interests and strenghts (3)The flexibility to produce and direct his own work after first semester of freshman year (4) his ability to persure private acting and voice classes on the side if wanted when time available (5)the ability to audition and do his own gigs, and (6)to wrap many things and experiences into one by college graduation. He will no doubt continue his pursuit of many subjects, things and other opportunities through his summers whether here or abroad too.
I asked him if he was thinking of continuing his education to the graduate level at this time and he said no. It is his belief that he would like to go out in the world and make something of himself or of his own after graduation before he returns to the classroom for a concentration in a graduate level degree, if ever needed. Of course, he said it all depends. That things could change completely in the next four years if not before.
But, I get the distinct impression that he is ready NOW (and that it is important to him) to be "the captain of his own ship".
So, I think your questionaire is more on than off or closer in defining what a student would be accessing and thinking subconsciously than not. Work out a few kinks with your associates and I think you are on to something of great value for the student and his family in accessing BFA/BA college tracks and their educational future.
I know my H and I feel better that S is persuing the right track that has been chosen. Your questionnaire has supported that.
| By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 10:17 pm: Edit |
I'm a 6 when I include the MT question and a 5 of up to 12 without it. I can sing pretty and I'm trainable as a dancer, but MT aint my thang.
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 10:28 pm: Edit |
Valerie: Based on several of your earlier posts, I'd thought for a long time that your son had made a good choice. I think NYU would have been fine, but I suspect UCLA will be terrific for him.
Thesbo: I think that score supports what you've written before, that even though you do exceptionally well in academic subjects, that's not what you want to spend your time working on in college. That's why you're taking all those AP tests, right? Clearly you want a professional training program.
OK, enough of the silly questionnaire. But let me explain some of the reasoning behind it.
Success in the musical theatre requires continuous training in voice at least, and for most, in dance as well. You can't put that training on hold. So I do think that for students who want to do musicals, a BFA is preferable.
It's different for students who want to do regional theatre, Shakespeare festivals, off-Broadway, and even film. Unless they are ingenues, and therefore employable at the age of 22, it may be awhile, even four or five years, before they start getting cast regularly. Those years may be usefully spent in an MFA program, and there are many excellent ones, including NYU, Yale, ACT, and UC San Diego. These schools accept students who've majored in History as well as those who've majored in Theatre. And by the time they've finished the degree at the age of 25, MFA students have mature bodies and voices capable of doing classical repertoire. (They also have a "terminal" degree which will allow them later in life to teach at the college level.)
Too, it's difficult to get what's commonly called a "liberal arts education" outside of an undergraduate setting. Professional training in a good MFA program can be done at the age of 30 or even 40. But there are no graduate programs in general studies. it's very difficult to go back at that age and spend the time studying philosophy, history, the arts and science. So, for some, doing an academically rigorous BA degree in theatre and another field, followed by an MFA in Acting, may be the better route. At least some students should consider it, and not reject it out-of-hand because they fear they can't adequately prepare for a professional acting career in any other way than a BFA.
But the BFA is absolutely right for many, and especially for students who want a career in musical theatre, as well as for those who are kinesthetic learners.
It's all about finding the path where you can learn the things you want to learn in the way you can best learn them.
| By Valerie (Valerie) on Thursday, June 17, 2004 - 09:32 pm: Edit |
Thanks Doctorjohn, your posts are always very imformative and "right on". I agree, in the long run S has made a very wise choice.
Worlds of opportunity are avaialble to him once he really establishes himself and "feels" where he belongs in the next few years of maturity, exposure and experience.
| By Valerie (Valerie) on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 03:50 am: Edit |
For now, a wide range of academic studies are a must. He has too many subject interests that need to be pursued or further advanced studied in undergrad College, now that he has the time and age available. And, on his parents dime!! I agree with you too, Life tends to happen and get in the way, once the reality of responsibilities set in after college graduation. I should note for others, that because S has had four years of intense theatre studies already under his belt that his decision to pursure BA vs. BFA is right for him at the moment. It will be interesting though, to see where his thinking and feelings are a year from now. I don't think i will have the same person walking into my kitchen as i do now. Already, I can see the self motivation and governance taking shape with his summer employment and activites he is pursuing. It is Amazing the emotional growth and maturity the kids tend to acquire after one year of College! I can see an MFA in the future - THEATRE IS HIS LOVE - but it is a varied academic program with a concentration in theatre BA for now. I think the TFT school at UCLA gives him the best of both worlds. I am glad doctorjohn you think so too. Now, lets see what he makes of it. I love college for kids. I love to see them take flight!!!!!
| By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 03:26 pm: Edit |
I dropped in over here from the musical theatre thread, and I want to thank Doctorjohn for his questionnaire! It really helped at our house. My daughter took the survey, and it helped us both realize something. It wasn't even the score so much as the questions themselves. My daughter is a very physical person. She chose to learn ASL for her foreign language because she can physically communicate instead of just speak. But she's also an excellent student in English, a critical and compassionate reader, and a wonderful writer (and excellent in psychology and history), so that sometimes confuses the situation. But she'd rather be singing and dancing and acting and in performances, rehearsals, choir, drama, and dance class than anything in the world. Clearly, she would not be happy or as successful in a BA theatre program. It also explains why, although she is so smart, such a quick study and a good memorizer, she stinks at testtaking. I often wonder how somebody who both thrives at auditions and loves to learn can do so poorly on academic tests. I bet if they asked her to sing the answers or pattern (choreograph) the answers, she'd do great! Thanks, Doctorjohn!
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 03:48 pm: Edit |
Mtmommy: That's one of the reasons that many teachers have reservations about standardized tests. The questions can only be answered by using a pencil to fill in a tiny circle. No way to paint an answer, or dance one, or write a song or a scene. I'm glad the questionnaire helped. It does sound as if your daughter would learn better in a program where she can be physically active most of the time. As I wrote earlier, it's all about finding the place where you can learn the things you want to learn, in the WAY you can learn them best.
| By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Friday, June 18, 2004 - 06:56 pm: Edit |
Doctorjohn, I had almost forgotten about the "Thesbo Manifesto" I wrote last month. I feel much better, now. 
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:16 am: Edit |
I'm glad, Thesbohemian. (Can we shorten that to Tbon?) Now I have a question for you. If you're willing, could you give me your score on each question, and the reasons for your choices? It would help me decide which questions are most useful. You can write to me off-line if you'd prefer.
Thanks!
| By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 01:44 pm: Edit |
Doctorjohn, I kinda like "Thesbo." Here's my reasoning on my answers:
"I can't imagine doing anything besides acting in the professional theatre. Really."
3. I’m interested in TV and film as well, so I knocked it down to 3 based on that. If the statement was "I can't imagine being anything besides a professional actor," it'd be a 5.
"I am a singer and a dancer, and I would love to spend my life doing musicals."
1. Like I said, I’m trainable as a dancer and I can sing fairly well, but I’m not the kind of powerhouse some of my voice friends are. I've never learned to read music well, either. Also, even if I decided to emphasize it, I think I’d be an alto in a soprano’s body casting-wise.
"I want to learn everything about everything."
-3. I like to learn. I’m especially into specific period history and I think I’d get into cultural anthropology and psychology, but “everything about everything” is kind of intense. Not even possible in this life.
"Except for being onstage, my favorite place is the library or my room, curled up with a great book."
-1. No way! I even prefer to study outside if possible. I really don’t study that much. People think I’m smart, but I really just have a good memory. Hence my hatred for high maintenance math and science and the amount of homework that goes with them. My ego makes me go for the A, but I resent spending the time. I guess it must be sort of like being stuck in a bad, real-world job. Hopefully, the paycheck will be a big, fat scholarship.
"Except for being onstage, my favorite place is in dance class, or acting class, or choir."
5. I’m all about stretching and taking risks in studio. The first time I took an improv class, it was like I'd suddenly come home.
"I'm very physical, and I'm at my best when I'm active and busy all the time."
4. I’m very physical and like to stay busy, but I need SOME time to chill and recharge.
"I'm very intellectual, and I'm at my best when I have time to think and write.
-3. Balancing with the last question, I’d say I’m more physical than intellectual and probably need more time to "recharge" than to think and write, but I do have some of that side. Really, I have my best ideas when I’m running, riding the Lifecycle, or something like that. It's kind of hard to judge, but I give myself a +1 on the last two questions combined.
Did I understand the questions and approach it like you intended?
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 04:54 pm: Edit |
Dear Thesbo:
Yes, you did. I need to think about your answers for a bit, before I change the wording of the statements. But I'll definitely change the first statement to "professional actor". It was never my intent to have anyone hedge because I wrote "theatre" and didn't include film and TV.
Thanks, Thesbo. Very helpful.
| By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Sunday, June 20, 2004 - 10:20 pm: Edit |
Doctorjohn--This is how the questions worked over here. I tried to answer before, but my answer got lost somehow.
I can't imagine doing anything besides acting in the professional theatre. Really.
My daughter gave this one a 4 because she wants to act more than anything, but could in a pinch see herself "helping other people" (psychology).
I am a singer and a dancer, and I would love to spend my life doing musicals.
My daughter gave this one a 5 because she's a singer and dancer (and actor) and only wants to do musicals!
I want to learn everything about everything.
My daughter gave this one a 4. I thought she'd give it a 3. I think we both were tempering it with the thought that although she loves to learn she knows she can only do so much in one lifetime. It's sort of a trick question.
Except for being onstage, my favorite place is the library or my room, curled up with a great book.
I thought she would answer this one with a 2, but she answered with a 3. She loves down time and to read.
Except for being onstage, my favorite place is in dance class, or acting class, or choir.
She answered a 4, while I thought it would be a 5. She loves this, but obviously wants the reading time too.
I'm very physical, and I'm at my best when I'm active and busy all the time.
This was a 5, and I knew it would be a 5!
I'm very intellectual, and I'm at my best when I have time to think and write.
While I thought she would put a 3, she actually put a 4! I never would have thought somebody who spends all their time singing, dancing, acting, and choreographing would consider herself so intellectual!
These questions, as i said before, really made us both think about what type of learner she is. Another question that might help is how someone spends their time currently. For example, outside of school and work, how much time does someone spend on training, rehearsing, performing, studying for extra hard courses like AP, doing volunteer work outside performing arts, reading, hanging with friends, sleeping . . . .
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 08:31 am: Edit |
MTmommy: Thanks, that is very helpful. Looks like I need to change the "I want to learn everything about everything" statement to something like, "I want to study as many different subjects as I can in college." That gets closer to the reality of the choice between BA and BFA programs.
Time for me to run this by my colleagues in Psychology who know what they're doing with this kind of thing. I'll try to do that this week.
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 06:49 pm: Edit |
OK, version two. Based on advice from my colleague Robert Kraft, chair of Psychology, I took out the negative numbers (I knew he was going to tell me that), went to a 7 point scale, and repeated "strongly disagree" and "strongly agree" for each question.
As for the questions themselves, some have been reworded slightly, and some have been left the same.
For now, I'm not going to give instructions on how to score this. But it would be very helpful if some volunteers would take the survey and tell me their choice on each question.
1. I can't imagine being anything other than a professional actor.
strongly disagree 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 strongly agree
2. I want to learn about as many different subjects as I can in college.
strongly disagree 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 strongly agree
3. I am a singer and a dancer, and I want to spend my life doing musicals.
strongly disagree 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 strongly agree
4. I not only enjoy theatre, I also enjoy other subjects, and I like spending time in classes in literature, history, social science, etc., listening to lectures or engaging in discussions.
strongly disagree 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 strongly agree
5. Except for being onstage, I'd rather be in dance class, or acting class, or choir than anyplace else in the world.
strongly disagree 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 strongly agree
6. I'm very intellectual, and I need lots of solitary time to think about life.
strongly disagree 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 strongly agree
7. I'm very physical, and I need to be active and busy all the time.
strongly disagree 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 strongly agree
8. I am really torn between doing a BA or a BFA degree in Theatre.
strongly disagree 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 strongly agree
Thanks in advance for your help!
| By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Wednesday, June 23, 2004 - 09:44 pm: Edit |
We got a 28 for a kid who definitely wants a BFA not a BA, loves to think widely but not have to attend diverse classes, loves to be around the theater better than almost anything else.
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 07:28 am: Edit |
Jrmom:
Could you tell me what her score was on each question? The way this thing will be scored eventually, according to my colleague, is to separate the totals on the even and odd questions, and compare them. That's why the score on each question is important. Your d is a good test case, because she definitely wants a BFA, and if the questionnaire works, it should reflect that desire.
Thanks.
| By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 12:36 pm: Edit |
Sure. Had to do it over again since I threw out the notes I made. I think I added wrong on the earlier one anyway. Hope this helps.
1. 5
2. 2
3. 6
4. 1
5. 6
6. 6
7. 4
8. 1
Odd: 21
Even: 10
| By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 04:37 pm: Edit |
1. 7
2. 3
3. 1
4. 5
5. 7
6. 4
7. 6
8. 1
Odd: 24
Even: 10
| By Gadad (Gadad) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 04:45 pm: Edit |
Sorry to jump into the middle of what is a fascinating conversation about BA/BFA - I'd probably get more responses to this if I waited. But are you all aware of colleges with theatre / drama majors (as opposed to musical theatre) which nonetheless produce multiple musicals each year? In other words, if a prospective musical theatre student is flexible on a choice of major (e.g. theatre instead of musical theatre, or voice major with a theatre or dance minor), what schools would offer the best musical theatre performance opportunities? One would seem to be Yale - can anyone propose others?
| By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 05:55 pm: Edit |
Doctorjohn--
My daughter took the new test. Geesh. She's enthusiastic about everything, I guess. Here it is:
1. 5 Why a 5? "There's a chance that someday I might want to be a singer or dancer or teacher or psychologist."
2. 5
3. 6 Why a 6? "I want to just sing and just act and just dance, too, it doesn't always have to be in a musical."
4. 5
5. 6
6. 7
7. 7
8. 1 Why a 1? "I want to focus on my specialities. Then later I can branch out and learn more different things."
Even: 24
Odd: 18
I hope this helps.
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 07:22 pm: Edit |
Gadad:
A couple of months ago, I created a list of good theatre programs in the Midwest, not including the highly selective training programs. It's dated March 27, and you'll find it in Part 10 of the Musical Theatre thread. The first two schools in each state are known for doing musicals.
A second strategy is to get the current Directory of Theatre Training Programs, a comprehensive list of all schools which offer theatre degrees, find schools which look interesting and look at their websites to see their seasons.
Of course that doesn't necessarily help one discriminate between programs. So the final strategy I recommend is to go the Kennedy Center/American College Theater Festival regionals website (www.kcactf.org), and check out each of the 8 regional festivals. You'll quickly discover which schools participated in regional festivals and which students won various competitions, including the Irene Ryan Acting awards. For example, in Region IV--West Virginia, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, and Tennessee--students from UNC Greensboro and U of Florida won the Ryans, students from U. Southern Mississippi and U. South Alabama were runners-up, and a student from Virginia Commonwealth won the Musical Theater Award.
Since the regional festivals also have design, playwriting, and even theatre criticism awards, students interested in those fields could also look at the regional websites to identify good theatre programs.
Finally, the KC/ACTF national website (www.kennedy-center.org/education/actf) has the list of schools who were invited to the national festival, a signal honor.
Hope this helps.
| By Valerie (Valerie) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 08:04 pm: Edit |
Doctorjohn, THANKS! ever so much for your recent post about Theatre programs and the extensive lists of where to go and search further. What an increbdible help to many!
I was wondering though, if you wouldn't mind copying your post from the March 27 MT thread to over here so that it would be easier to have as a reference on this thread?
Also, I wanted to let you know that my S took your new survey questions today on the updated questioniare and to give you the points as to where he feels he is.
1. 5
2. 6
3. 3
4. 3
5. 5
6. 4
7. 4
8. 3
Odd: 19
Even: 14
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 08:37 pm: Edit |
Jrmom, Thesbo, Mtmommy and Valerie:
Thank you, all. The results are interesting. Seems pretty clear that the survey confirms what we already knew, that Jrmom's D and Thesbo definitely want BFA programs. Same for Mtmommy's D. Her 24 on the odd questions, which show a preference for a BFA lifestyle, is the same score as Thesbo's. Her 18 on the even questions, which show a preference for a BA lifestyle, is high, but not higher than the odd scores, and not high enough to flip it in the other direction. Especially since she's so clear that she wants to specialize now rather than later. (Makes me very glad that I added the last question.) She might, however, find herself ultimately attracted more to programs that offer BFA students the chance to study other subjects than to strict conservatory programs.
As for Valerie's son, the balance in those scores indicate to me that he's right where he needs to be, going to a BA program at UCLA which offers him the chance to do a significant amount of actor training while still studying lots of other subjects.
Thanks again. Anyone else want to volunteer?
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Thursday, June 24, 2004 - 08:49 pm: Edit |
Valerie:
Here's the March 27 post from the MT thread that you asked me to repost here:
Good morning, everyone. Peggy and others have asked for a list of colleges with strong theatre programs, not necessarily in MT, and not conservatories. I can't do it for the entire country, but I can help with Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio, which is Region III of the Kennedy Center-American College Theater Festival. Sorry I don't have time this morning to go into a history of KCACTF (see website link below), but I can tell you that schools which participate in the organization have faculty who are committed to helping their students learn through shared experiences, including the regional festivals. It's a college version of Thespians, if that helps.
I've run two festivals in Region III, and chaired the region for two years. The list which follows is not exhaustive, but it does include schools whose good work I've seen at festival or on their home campuses. Some of the schools listed in each state are particularly known for doing musicals, even if they don't have MT degrees. (Those schools are marked with an *). Most of the schools listed do not hold auditions for entrance into their theatre programs, although many may hold scholarship auditions. I have not listed schools from the standard MT list, like Michigan, Otterbein, CCM, Baldwin-Wallace, Roosevelt, and so on, who do hold auditions for entrance.
For more information on KCACTF, go to its homepage: http://www.kennedy-center.org/education/actf/ and to the homepage for the regions: www.kcactf.org
I'm off to NYC this morning with the seniors, who do their showcase (along with Northwestern and Baldwin-Wallace's MTs and CCM's drama majors) on Monday and Tuesday night. Wanted to get this sent off before I left.
Best wishes to all. Hope this helps.
*Indicates colleges which do musicals well, whether or not they offer a BFA in MT.
MICHIGAN
*Oakland University, Rochester
*Western Michigan University, Kalamazoo
*Calvin College, Grand Rapids
Hope College, Holland
University of Michigan-Flint
WISCONSIN
*Viterbo University, La Crosse
*UW Stevens Point
Marquette University, Milwaukee
Lawrence University, Appleton
UW Parkside
ILLNOIS
*North Central College, Naperville
*Illinois Wesleyan University, Bloomington
National-Louis University, Evanston
*Loyola University, Chicago
INDIANA
*Ball State University, Muncie
Butler University, Indianapolis
Earlham College, Richmond
Saint Mary's College, Notre Dame
*University of Evansville (entrance audition required)
University of Indianapolis
University of Southern Indiana, Evansville
Valparaiso University, Valparaiso
OHIO
*Ohio Northern University, Ada
*College of Wooster, Wooster
Miami University, Oxford
Oberlin College, Oberlin
University of Akron
University of Dayton
Wittenberg University, Springfield
| By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 10:38 am: Edit |
Valerie,
You said on an earlier part of this thread that you were researching theatre schools on the west coast. Have you found any "hidden goodies" out there? Thanks
| By Valerie (Valerie) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 05:53 pm: Edit |
Doctorjohn
A lot of the Midwest Schools listed I know by name. Some I know by their General Ed reputations. It's great however, to know them in reference to their Theatre programs. Again, thanks for your efforts! The Midwest DOES have some very good schooling and sometimes more economical too!!
| By Valerie (Valerie) on Friday, June 25, 2004 - 06:24 pm: Edit |
Thesbo, To be fair, I can't qualify with a yes or no answer for any one school at this time, objectively.
However, there are some really good schools in the West. I have found that other than the big State schools there are a number of LAC's too that could peak interest when one is investigating colleges in general. Subjectively, and being advised from others, CA. is the feeder school of the West (as we all know) and the Southern area of CA is known for their excellent schooling across the board.
I would like to answer and in more detail. Look for my post in the next few days. That way I will have the time to respond in length with my personal thoughts and observations. Unfortunately, I am in and have been in the middle of more than one family medical and personal crsis besides traveling last 3 weeks. I can't beleive it's the end of June already! I hate to promise and not follow through or have info that is not backed up with sound reason and research too.
Any others that have experience and/or information on Theatre programs/schools in the West? Their campus/location atmosphere etc. Would love to hear and have posted.
| By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Saturday, June 26, 2004 - 11:53 am: Edit |
Valerie,
Hope you can get everything stabilized. Good luck. Thanks
| By Wct (Wct) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 02:58 pm: Edit |
Thesbohemian-
There is a "gem" on the West Coast. It is a JC so it would only provide a two year program (AA or AS). This "gem" is Santa Monica College. This is a great college for actors because this program has been extremely successful at getting many 2 year students into the acting program at Juilliard. Many students are already in the TV/film business and the college is close to their "work". Below is their web site and some other related info.
The main link to the Theater Department:
http://www.smc.edu/theatre/
Check out this page:
http://www.smc.edu/theatre/AboutDept.htm
Check it out and let me know what you think.
| By Wct (Wct) on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 03:07 pm: Edit |
I forgot this interesting link about their Arts Mentor Program:
http://www.smc.edu/artsmentor/
| By Jasmom (Jasmom) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 08:00 am: Edit |
Doctorjohn,
My son took your quiz. The results...
1. 5
2. 3
3. 6
4. 6
5. 6
6. 3
7. 4
8. 1
odd 21
even 13
He'll be attending NYU Tisch, Playwrights (his 2nd choice to Cap 21, but pleased with placement nonetheless)
Only trouble he had was the last question, Because he has decided on BFA, he noted no conflict.
In fact, he applied to/ and was accepted in BFA programs in Visual Arts as well as B.A. programs in Art and Dance. So, earlier on, I imagine he might have answered question 8 differently.
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 07:51 pm: Edit |
Jasmom:
The results are interesting. Let's say your son answered question 8 with a 6, indicating a high level of conflict. His odd score would be 21 and his even score 18. That still suggests, in my mind, a BFA program, but with the possibility of a significant amount of work in other fields. Tisch seems to structure its curricula to make that possible, and I suspect that Playwrights will offer more variation in the theatre training itself than CAP 21 would have, possibly giving him the chance to use his artistic skills in theatre design. Looks like he's made a good choice. Please thank him for taking the quiz!
| By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 08:13 pm: Edit |
Wct,
Looks like they're definitely doing something right. Doesn't say much about their audition process, though. Any info on that?
| By Catherdingmom (Catherdingmom) on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 05:51 pm: Edit |
I've stumbled onto this discussion purely by serendipity. What a lifeline! My S will be starting his senior year this fall, and the whole process of finding the right college is so very, very daunting. (Finding the college he wants to attend that will accept him and that we can afford--I have this geometrical representation in my mind and wonder if those lines will intersect or not!)
Dr. John, thanks for your BA/BFA quiz. My son was at Gov. Schools for Performing Arts last summer and came back positive that he wanted to go for a BFA. However, he's beginning to waver. He wants the best possible preparation for theatre, but he also feels the need to express himself as a musician. And he enjoys the humanities courses. He took your quiz, and here are his scores:
1.6
2.3
3.4
4.7
5.5
6.7
7.5
8.4
Odd=20, Even=21
Couldn't get much closer, could it? LOL
He's still leaning towards the BFA because he would enjoy the intensive training--but giving up the liberals arts courses will be hard, too. As my grandmother would say, "He wants to have his cake and eat it, too." The quiz certainly pinpointed his ambivalence.
Maybe the best thing for us to do is to visit both kinds of programs and see which "feels" right to him.
Many thanks to everyone sharing information . I'm learning a lot!
| By Kdad (Kdad) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 12:56 am: Edit |
Aloha. Just joined. Good info being shared; I'll be back. If anyone has an email address for Elena (Crypticism), pls let me know. We live in same state and I have a son near her age who wants to be an actor. Haven't seen her posted since Part I.
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 11:06 pm: Edit |
Catherdingmom: The best thing for you to do is exactly what you said. Take him to visit different kinds of programs and see what feels right to him. Having done this with my two boys and having witnessed hundreds of students over the years, I can tell you that he'll probably know within about 15 minutes if he wants to keep a school on his list. Good luck!
| By Wct (Wct) on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 02:17 am: Edit |
Thesbohemian-
I don't believe you audition to get into the program at Santa Monica College. It looks like you audition for some of the classes at the beginning of each semester and you audition for their shows. You may want to contact the program directly if you are interested. I hope to make it up there to see one of their shows in the next few months.
| By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 11:12 am: Edit |
Does anybody know the acceptance rate at USC? I've heard they are VERY selective, but I don't know any stats. Do they go to the unifieds? I had them off my list, but I noticed that the school does give some academic full rides. I haven't found out if they're ever given to theatre students, though.
| By Wct (Wct) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 04:18 am: Edit |
Thesbohemian-
I don't believe USC goes to the unifieds but I could be wrong. I believe they do auditions on their campus. I think that if you have the grades you would have a shot at a scholarship. As far as I know theater students do get scholarships but I do not know if it is a full ride or not. I would talk to someone in the department.
| By Marissal (Marissal) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 01:05 pm: Edit |
Does anyone have information/opinions on the American Academy of Dramatic Arts?
As well, anything about the Los Angeles City College Theatre Academy [http://theatre_academy.lacitycollege.edu/]..
Thank you!
| By Norcalmom (Norcalmom) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 05:16 pm: Edit |
Thesbohemian, I may be able to answer some questions you have about USC. I do know that they have auditions at the school, but also conduct one in San Francisco. I'm not sure where else, if anywhere, that they hold auditions.
As for the full (Trustee) and half (Presidential) tuition scholarships, they do try to spread them out among the schools. At USC, you apply to both your major school and USC in general. If you don't get into your major school and are accepted into USC in general, you can attend and try reapplying to your specific major once you are there.
My daughter was guaranteed a Presidential Scholarship because she was a National Merit Scholar. Nevertheless, they made her go through the interview process in order to be considered for the Trustee Scholarship. I don't know how many Trustees they give out. I do know, that at her interview session, many students were there from the business school and she said they were very competitive. She was the only person interviewing from the School of Fine Arts and it was very casual. She didn't receive a Trustee, but she is a Junior now and doesn't know anyone in the School of Fine Arts on a Trustee Scholarship. As a matter of fact, she is a rare bird in that she is from the School of Fine Arts and has a Presidential Scholarship. So it would appear that distribution of the scholarships is not even over the individual schools.
There are Dean's Scholarships which I believe are quarter tuition also.
| By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 06:01 pm: Edit |
Just an observation about scholarships: NYU Tisch does not seem to give many merit awards either though high testscores and stats do yield some merit awards at NYU in general. I was told by someone that Tisch does not get as many merit awards as other division, sort of like the USC situation but cannot get confirmation of this from the school,
| By Alwaysamom (Alwaysamom) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 07:13 pm: Edit |
Jamimom, I can confirm what you've heard. My D had excellent academic stats, 1500+ SAT I, three 790 SAT IIs, 3.9 unweighted gpa, involved extracurriculars and she was given a very tiny merit scholarship by Tisch. We were told when we first toured, in an information session, that Tisch has less money available for merit aid than the other NYU colleges. Very frustrating. I guess those successful Tisch alumni are not very generous to their alma mater.
| By Wct (Wct) on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 09:53 pm: Edit |
I have posted a link to the past winners of the American College Theater Festival below. In my day, (a long time ago) this was a prestigious program. I would think it still is. A college has to make the effort to take part, so it may not be a good representation of what is out there, but I think it could be used as a tool. I would love to hear your opinions regarding this.
http://www.kennedy-center.org/education/actf/actflst.html
| By Leverite (Leverite) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 04:17 pm: Edit |
Hello Everyone,
We have just recently discovered this site and are very impressed with the amount of information and support that is shared here.
My son has finished his first year of college and we're starting to investigate schools for him to transfer to after the following year. He is, at present, attending a community college and majoring in theatre. He will be getting married in the spring of 2005. His fiance is looking for a graduate program in costume design. My son and his fiance do not need to be at the same school, but in the same city. He is in a good academic position with a high GPA and has theatre instructors and directors willing to give him recommendations.
He is a trainable dancer, a good singer, but is primarily an actor. However, some of his big successes have been in musical theatre. People comment on his stage presence, ability to move them, and the purity he exudes. He is memorable. People approach him and talk about performances that happened years ago.
My son and I would love to hear any advice or wisdom you all have to offer. Dr. John, we're especially hoping to hear from you.
1) Can you suggest some possible schools that are friendly to transfer students that are located in the northeast (New York, especially) that have an extensive theatre program?
2) Given his situation, does it make more sense for him to go for a BA or a BFA? (He scored a 35 on the second version of Dr. John's quiz) He will be a newlywed.
3) What schools offer good BA and/or BFA programs in theatre that allow him to be flexible with his studies and include a strong theatre curriculum as well? And which schools offer good financial aid packages? Money is an issue for us.
4) What schools have the best New York connections? What schools can help actors get jobs?
5) Do you have any comments on Brooklyn College, the New School in New York, Wagner College, Sarah Lawrence, American Academy of Dramatic Arts, and American Musical Academy of Dramatic Arts regarding their theatre programs or any of the things mentioned earlier?
6) What schools offer good graduate programs for costume design?
Any advice or information would be much appreciated. Sorry this is so long.
Leverite
| By Leverite (Leverite) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 04:33 pm: Edit |
Hello Everyone,
We have just recently discovered this site and are very impressed with the amount of information and support that is shared here.
My son has finished his first year of college and we're starting to investigate schools for him to transfer to after the following year. He is, at present, attending a community college and majoring in theatre. He will be getting married in the spring of 2005. His fiance is looking for a graduate program in costume design. My son and his fiance do not need to be at the same school, but in the same city. He is in a good academic position with a high GPA and has theatre instructors and directors willing to give him recommendations.
He is a trainable dancer, a good singer, but is primarily an actor. However, some of his big successes have been in musical theatre. People comment on his stage presence, ability to move them, and the purity he exudes. He is memorable. People approach him and talk about performances that happened years ago.
My son and I would love to hear any advice or wisdom you all have to offer. Dr. John, we're especially hoping to hear from you.
1) Can you suggest some possible schools that are friendly to transfer students that are located in the northeast (New York, especially) that have an extensive theatre program?
2) Given his situation, does it make more sense for him to go for a BA or a BFA? (He scored as follows: odd = 15, even = 18 on the second version of Dr. John's quiz) He will be a newlywed.
3) What schools offer good BA and/or BFA programs in theatre that allow him to be flexible with his studies and include a strong theatre curriculum as well? And which schools offer good financial aid packages? Money is an issue for us.
4) What schools have the best New York connections? What schools can help actors get jobs?
5) Do you have any comments on Brooklyn College, the New School in New York, Wagner College, Sarah Lawrence, American Academy of Dramatic Arts, and American Musical Academy of Dramatic Arts regarding their theatre programs or any of the things mentioned earlier?
6) What schools offer good graduate programs for costume design?
Any advice or information would be much appreciated. Sorry this is so long.
Leverite
| By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 08:50 pm: Edit |
This address discusses the difference between a BA and BFA (briefly) and gives a big list of questions to ask a prospective school about their program(s).
http://www.edta.org/rehearsal_hall/choices.asp
| By Leverite (Leverite) on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 10:34 pm: Edit |
Mtmommy,
Thank you so much for responding so quickly. This site will be very helpful. We are visiting Wagner in a couple of weeks and the list of questions is great.
One of my son's instructors has recommended that he transfer to Emerson after next year. I have some concerns after reading some of the comments on mt threads.
Leverite
| By Newnudad (Newnudad) on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 04:29 pm: Edit |
North Central College in Naperville, IL!
My son loves it. He is a Communication Major, is in all the musicals, and not even a theatre major, but they gave him a theater scholarship! They are very understanding about dollars too, and raised the amount of scholarship dollars so he could afford to attend. HS stats @ 31 ACT, but only in top 12% because of Junioritis, not Senioritis..
Good Luck!
| By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 10:03 am: Edit |
Norcalmom and Wct,
Thanks! Looks like USC does regional auditions around the time of the unifieds. I guess I'll leave them off my list, though. Them being so selective PLUS having to actually go there to interview for a Trustee scholarship which doesn't usually go to arts students makes me think of them as an expensive reach. Coast-to-coast flight for a prayer. Oh, well ... Looks like they have some weird AP issues, too. No GE credit for most AP? Pu-LEEZ!!!
For anybody who's interested, my current choices are down to SMU, FSU, Miami, Catawba, and College of Charleston. I've had to eliminate the ones that don't have full rides and right now I'm thinking I'd rather stay in the south for college. I'll still probably audition for Juilliard to humor my teacher, too.
| By Leverite (Leverite) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 09:43 pm: Edit |
Newnudad,
Thanks so much for responding. We're looking at their website. Your son must be very talented!
Thanks again,
Leverite
| By Lano409 (Lano409) on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 10:23 pm: Edit |
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone knows anybody who has successfully transferred into USC's BFA Theatre program (audition required). I heard they only accept transfer students for the BFA program if there is a spot available, which makes it even harder to transfer into. Does anyone know anything else about transferring into USC's BFA theatre program? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
| By Thesbohemian (Thesbohemian) on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 09:44 am: Edit |
I'm still all ears to any inside information from current students and recent graduates on the acting programs at the University of Miami and Catawba College. They're on my list, but I've never visited, I don't know any current students, and I won't be able to visit until audition/scholarship interview time. I'm also still toying with the idea of the University of Evansville and am interested in hearing from current students there, too.
Just as a point of reference, the things that concern me about Miami are that I have no idea about the personality of the faculty as a whole and it concerns me a little that the only two female acting instructors are both graduates of the program, themselves. One MFA and one BFA. I'm not sure why I should be concerned about that except that someone told me it could be a symptom of "inbreeding" and maybe some chauvinism in the program. Don't take that as an accusation. I'm just wondering. Also, Catawba and Evansville are soooooooo small that I kind of wonder how somebody like me who tends to be very visible and has a very outgoing and somewhat flamboyant personality might fit in. Yes, I'm a total foghorn. I just wonder how much "fishbowl effect" there may be like there is at my current school where everybody seems to always know and be into everybody else's business.
Sorry for the repeated questions. Just call me "Little Miss Broken Record." 
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 12:26 pm: Edit |
Leverite:
I apologize for not responding sooner. I've been on vacation and just returned on Tuesday.
You have a very interesting set of circumstances, and I have two major questions for you: what is your son's legal state of residence, and what is his fiance's? It will make a very significant difference in the response.
Thanks.
| By Leverite (Leverite) on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 09:59 am: Edit |
Doctorjohn,
Welcome back. They both are MA legal residents.
Thanks,
Leverite
| By Dazed04confused (Dazed04confused) on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 02:24 pm: Edit |
Check out the training grounds of Denzel Washington, Alan Alda, Dylan McDermott, Patricia Clarkson, Robert Sean Leonard among many, many, many others...
http://www.fordham.edu/theatre/ftpsplash.htm
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 12:26 pm: Edit |
Leverite:
As I've thought about your son's rather unique circumstances, it seems to me that the most important limiting conditions are (1) that his fiancee needs an MFA program in costume design, and that (2) they want to live in the same place after they marry, somewhere in the northeast. There are many, many fewer MFA costume design programs than undergraduate theatre programs, so that's probably the place to start. In the northeast, I can recommend five:
Brandeis University, Waltham, MA
Boston University, Boston, MA
SUNY-Purchase, Purchase, NY
Rutgers University, New Brunswick, NJ
Yale University, New Haven, CT
Slightly farther away are:
Penn State University, State College, PA
Carnegie-Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA
All of these schools have strong connections to the profession, and all also have good undergraduate theatre programs. Purchase, Rutgers and Carnegie are particularly known for their BFA Acting programs, Carnegie and Penn State for their BFA Musical Theatre programs. Brandeis has a more broadly based BA degree. Yale, I'm pleased to see, has added an undergraduate BA in Theater Studies. Brandeis and Yale don't require auditions in order to major; but both are, of course, highly competitive for entrance to the university. BU, Carnegie, Penn State and Rutgers require auditions into the BFA programs, and are very competitive.
It is not essential that your son and future daughter-in-law be at the same school, you said, and that opens up options. Brandeis and BU are in Boston, which has several good undergraduate theatre programs; Purchase and Rutgers are contiguous to NYC, which has a couple dozen; Pittsburgh also offers Pitt and Point Park. Happy Valley only has Penn State, unfortunately.
The other defining factor is financial aid, and I can't speak to that at these colleges. I had earlier asked about your son's state of residence, because sometimes in-state tuition can be a good deal. But I wasn't able to find anything in Massachusetts that looked reasonable. In fact, according to the latest edition of The Directory of Theatre Training Programs, Rutgers OUT-of-state tuition ($5873) plus room & board (around $5000) is actually less than the University of Massachusetts combined IN-state tuition, room & board of $12,000. So you'll need to speak to the financial aid people at the colleges. Many private schools do offer substantial scholarships. (Rutgers on paper looks like good value for the price.)
I don't know about transfer policies at any of these schools. But it is likely that your son could complete a BA degree at most colleges in two years or so, depending primarily on the amount of academic coursework he's done so far. Most of the BFA programs will insist on three or even four years, no matter how much work the student has already taken. That's just the nature of professional training. Given your son's ambivalence about the BFA, that may nudge him towards BA programs.
You'd also asked about several specific programs, and I've made it a policy not to comment on specific schools unless I can make positive statements from personal knowledge. But I can tell you that AMDA and AADA are certificate programs, and do not offer bachelor's degrees. So if your son wants a college degree, these would not be appropriate.
One more time let me recommend to you and everyone the 9th edition of the Directory of Theatre Training Programs. It is the most comprehensive listing I know of theatre programs, with contact information and some detail about curricula. Here's the link:
http://dorsettheatrefestival.com/html/training_book.html
I'm sure some of the information is inaccurate, and some outdated--but they've been very good about noting that, with comments like, "Has not been updated since the 7th edition". Still, I don't know a better place to start looking.
Best wishes and good luck in your search.
| By Firefly (Firefly) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 02:07 pm: Edit |
It seems to me, after reading these posts, that if one wants to study acting, one must study at an East Coast school.
As a Californian, it's difficult for me to afford schools like this. Even counting grants, loans, and possible scholarships, I still have pay a sizable balance because of out-of-state tuition, or merely because tuition is rather high (and will keep rising due to budget cuts, inflation, etc.).
I have a BA (Anthropology) and have seriously studied acting for about a year now by taking great classes at a community college and a few workshops.
My intent now is to obtain an MFA. Julliard is a dream school for me even though it doesn't grant MFAs; however, if I don't get accepted, or if I do and can't afford it, I must look to West Coast schools.
So, my question (I would like to get an MFA, but if the school's program is really good, I would consider going for the training regardless of whether they give degrees or not):
* Are there any credible acting conservatories/programs on the West coast of the US?
Thank you.
| By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 04:43 pm: Edit |
Firefly:
Some of the best in the country, actually. I think most theatre professionals would rate the programs at UC Irvine, UC San Diego, and ACT (in San Francisco) as highly as those at Juilliard, Yale and NYU. Certainly their graduates have been equally successful. Other good MFA programs can be found at the following:
California Institute of the Arts ("Cal Arts")
Cal State Fullerton
Globe Theatres/University of San Diego
UCLA
U of Washington
I suggest you start by visiting their websites. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Good luck.