How to differentiate between 2nd tier and 1st tier schools

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Discus: College Search and Selection: June 2004 Archive: How to differentiate between 2nd tier and 1st tier schools
By Adjlad (Adjlad) on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 05:44 pm: Edit

How do u know if a school is a 2nd tier or 1st tier? Is there some general criteria?

By Kriskrass (Kriskrass) on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 05:51 pm: Edit

according to US NEWS

top tier = top 50 schools
2nd tier = 51-129
3rd tier = 130-194
4th tier = 195 - whatever

this includes public and private schools then there is the "top 10 publics"

1)UC Berkeley
2)Uni. Virginia
3) Uni. Mich Ann Arbor
5)UNC - CHapel Hill
6)College Of William and Mary
8) Unii. Wisconsin - Madison
9) Georgia tech

By Chapter322 (Chapter322) on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 06:21 pm: Edit

I always thought that Tier 1 schools were the top ten schools and Tier 2 were like the next 40. Then, Tier Three Trash and below. But it's fine if Kriskrass is correct.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 06:30 pm: Edit

The word "tier" is loosely used. USN&WR is one measure but schools do move from of their tiers to another from year to year and I know I can never keep track of those changes.

By Deferreddude (Deferreddude) on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 07:00 pm: Edit

HYPS= Tier One
M, C, and Lower Ivies = Tier Two
University of Chicago, JHU, Duke, and flagship publics = Tier Three
Everything else= Tier Four

This is just my opinion, but feel free to lambaste me later on. I don't really care.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 09:00 pm: Edit

If you attribute the definition of the word " tiers" to US News, you have to follow their methodology:

What are tiers, and why are some schools listed in tiers and not number ranked?

In order to focus on the best schools, U.S. News publishes the numbered rank of approximately the top 50 percent of schools in the national universities-doctoral and liberal arts-bachelor's categories and approximately the top 25 percent in universities-master's and comprehensive colleges-bachelor's. The remaining schools are placed in tiers or broad groups, based on their overall score in their category, (with the second tier schools in the universities-master's and comprehensive colleges-bachelor's categories the next best, followed by the third and fourth tiers) and listed alphabetically.

See KrisKras' post for the numbers.

By Confused86 (Confused86) on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 10:25 pm: Edit

deferreddude, just curious about where you would rank AWS and Gtown

By Jasmine1 (Jasmine1) on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 10:51 pm: Edit

Deferrereddude, M & C are academically harder to get in than HYPS, no one can get in M or C with legacies, etc.

By Spiffybrownboy (Spiffybrownboy) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 12:42 am: Edit

Well, Deferreddude, I know it's only your opinion, but it's a little outlandish to say that Chicago, JHU, and Duke aren't as good as Brown, Cornell, etc.. Equally outlandish is to put MIT below HYPS.

By Deferreddude (Deferreddude) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 01:07 am: Edit

Yeah I didn't really want to offend anybody or anything. AWS and Georgetown definitely should be included in the ranks of Duke, Chicago, JHU, Berkeley, etc.

Although Chicago, JHU, and Duke are superior schools, I wouldn't really say they are on par (prestige-wise) with the lower ivies like Columbia or Dartmouth.

MIT is a great tech-school, but it cannot compare with the all-around great schools like HYPS. Schools like Harvard are good at everything, including math and science, but MIT is only excellent in 3 or 4 categories. Therefore, MIT and Caltech are too specialized to be in tier 1.

Keep in mind that this is all just my opinion. My first three tiers are filled with the best, most selective schools in the nation.

By Rtkysg (Rtkysg) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 02:47 am: Edit

In my opinion, all-roundedness has nothing to do with the prestige where tier is more often related to prestige, hence:

HYPMSC - 1st tier
Berkeley, Duke, U of C, Lower ivies - 2nd tier
Washington U, Gatech, CMU, etc - 3rd tier

By Jasmine1 (Jasmine1) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 12:43 pm: Edit

Deferrerddude, I know sooo many people who choose MIT or Caltech over HYPS. If you love science and engineering and know that's the area you'd like to study, MIT or Caltech is by all means better choice than HYPS because they offer an excellent environment to explore with various options. Both M & C have excellent research opportunities, and it's quite possible to do research starting in the Freshmen year at MIT. Besides, MIT also has excellent business, architecture and pre-med programs.

By Interesteddad (Interesteddad) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 02:06 pm: Edit

You guys are being too myopic. There is no fundamental difference in the quality of education that an undergrad receives at, for example, Yale and Vanderbilt.

Step back and look at the big picture. The USNEWs divisions into broad tiers look about right to me.

By Deferreddude (Deferreddude) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 05:28 pm: Edit

I actually think there is a BIG difference in quality between Yale, a top ivy in the Northeast, and Vanderbilt, a Southern school. The cultures are just so different because of location alone, and Yale offers a much better academic experience than Vandy. The schools definitely belong in different tiers.

By Bellevueteen (Bellevueteen) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 05:34 pm: Edit

1st tier - Duke, Vanderbilt, Temple, Rice, New College of Florida
2nd tier - WUSTL, John Hopkins, Purdue, UChicago, Northwestern
3rd tier - CHYMPS
4th tier - Everything else

Take it, you Northeast/West Coast about schools you've never been to, will you

By Guitarshredder (Guitarshredder) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 06:36 pm: Edit

Who cares?

By Stanfordman99 (Stanfordman99) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 06:54 pm: Edit

Well the South is VERY racist, especially since a judge in Tennessee gave custody of a Chinese girl to a pair of Southern parents because they raised issues about how Chinese culture doesn't treat women right and how the standard of living in China isn't good enough. The lawyers even said: "What kind of quality of life is the child going to have in China?" asked Larry Parrish, a lawyer for the Bakers. "Common sense dictates that to take a child out of an environment where she's firmly attached and settled is the ultimate devastation."

Wow, I didn't know you could take away a baby from her biological parents when the parents didn't commit any crime. Well, perhaps being Chinese is a crime over in the South.

Just see this article in the New York Times:

By Chapter322 (Chapter322) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 07:44 pm: Edit

WTF does that have to do with Southern colleges?

The South is not VERY racist. I've lived in the South my entire life and it's nothing like the portrayed stereotypes.

I also know many people who graduated from HYP and stated that they could have gotten the same education at a college like Vanderbilt. It's not as different as one might think.

By Tropicanabanana (Tropicanabanana) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 08:00 pm: Edit

bellevuteen, do you live in nashville?

By Interesteddad (Interesteddad) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 08:01 pm: Edit

>> Well the South is VERY racist

Wow. You are going to make Stanford proud.

By Tropicanabanana (Tropicanabanana) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 08:11 pm: Edit

i have lived in the south, new england and midatlantic, and while the south is racist, the most racist town i've ever been in was wellesley, massachusetts. but you don't hear about the kind of race-based murders that happen in the south in the north. maybe because they don't report it or maybe it happens less. and all areas have huge problems with segregation.

By Bellevueteen (Bellevueteen) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 09:40 pm: Edit

One verdict does not racist a region make, although I do agree that's a particularly strong example. And I've lived in the South. It's not as bad as people think. In addition, higher institutions tend to be less racist/extreme/conservate than their surrounding areas and this doesn't affect their quality of education...but the most important thing: If people think the South is so racist, why are they so hesitant to visit/move there? The surest sign of your committment to tolerance and acceptance is the ability to tolerate the intolerant. That's the reason the South is so racist anyways, no one with a more open mind is willing to take the initiative to move.

By Bellevueteen (Bellevueteen) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 09:43 pm: Edit

And tropicanabanana, I do not, but I did live in Atlanta Georgia for 13 years before moving to the Northwest.

By Benjamin (Benjamin) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 02:21 am: Edit

The South is no more, no less racist than any other part of the country...its just that they've been given that stereotype, so everyone believes it.

By Macsuile (Macsuile) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 11:07 pm: Edit

Here are some stats on William & Mary:

- Second oldest U.S. university (Harvard is first)
- Oldest U.S. law school
- Birthplace of Phi Beta Kappa
- Alma mater of Washington, Jefferson, Monroe and Tyler
- Most selective U.S. public university
- Third highest SAT scores in the South (only Duke and Rice are higher)
- Highest entering freshman GPAs of any public university (Berkeley is close)
- Fastest growing public university endowment
- Outstanding accounting, biology, chemistry, history and physics departments

As you can see, William & Mary has an amazing academic tradition. Yes, the grading scale is somewhat deflationary and the course offerings are not as extensive as some other schools, but William & Mary is a school high on tradition which doesn't subscribe to fads where everyone graduates cum laude and there is a supermarket of course offerings. The school is committed to the British university model which is human-scale as opposed to other university models which focus on research and increasing enrollments. W&M may not be for everyone but a degree from there has timeless substance, something you can't find from most other U.S. schools which are constantly trying to reposition or recreate themselves.

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