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Daughter would like to go into elementary education. She's fininshing her junior year.
SAT: 660V, 780M; bio 710; AP US history 4
just took AP chem, AP calc, AP euro
just took SAT II writing, mathIIC, chem
A's in all honor/AP classes
some ec's: varsity cheerleader 4 yrs, junior class secretary, senior class secretary, NHS secretary, several clubs, teaches spanish in elem school, aide in religious school class, volunteered at art camp, etc.
Considering elem ed major or combined 5 year BA/MA and would like to stay on east coast. Looking at Vassar, Tufts, Penn State honors, Lehigh, U of Penn. What do you think of these and/or other schools? Thanks.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 06:01 pm: Edit

Your daughter is an excellent student and based on the basic stats you wrote, those schools are an appropriate list and a good range of selectivity. I have a daughter who applied to three schools on that list, Tufts, Penn, Lehigh and got in, though is not going to any of them but I can see that those are appropriate for your daughter's qualifications as well.

Please make sure as you look at schools, make sure which ones have programs that lead to teacher certification. My D is not going for that field (though loves teaching kids!). I would have to research it for you to advise you. I can tell you that I have been an elementary school teacher. I went to Tufts and majored in Child Study which is now called Child Development there. I LOVED that department and it was one aspect that drew me to Tufts. It is not a typical education department at all! It is the study of all aspects of young children. A student can elect to take certain courses and internships that lead to certification in that department, however. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

Susan

By Kazz (Kazz) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Michigan State is supposed to be phenomenal in elementary education

By Cama (Cama) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 07:54 am: Edit

Columbia University, Teacher's College... One of the best

By Monkey (Monkey) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 08:47 am: Edit

Penn State Schreyers would be an outstanding option. The education dept. at PSU has a professional development initiative with the local school district which provides many opportunities as well, including an option to be a year long intern in a classroom ( in lieu of traditional one semester student teaching.) A large majority of these interns are hired by the school district upon graduation.

By Toblin (Toblin) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 10:25 am: Edit

The College of New Jersey (TCNJ), highly rated, affordable and has a well-regarded Teachers Ed. program.

By Hollaratme (Hollaratme) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 10:42 am: Edit

swathmore

By Kk19131 (Kk19131) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 11:46 am: Edit

Goodness, look at you all, spelling PA school names incorrectly: Penn State Schreyer Honors College, Swarthmore College; by the way, Certification in Elementary Education is not offered by Swarthmore College. However, if students complete a sequence of courses at Swarthmore and twelve weeks of practice teaching in an elementary school, they can receive certification through Eastern College, with which Swarthmore has a collaborative arrangement.

By Motherof2 (Motherof2) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 02:36 pm: Edit

Thanks for all the input. Coming up with similar schools. Michigan is too far from home. Would like to be able to drive/train home, not that this will happen often! She's not interested in NYC. Swarthmore is too small and it seems to make sense to go to a school that either has an education department or offers certification or a 5 year program.
Does anyone have advice/experience with whether an elem ed teaching certificate (4 yr undergrad) or a Masters is better for job placement after graduation?
Susan, where is your daughter going to school and what is she studying?

By Monkey (Monkey) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 04:55 pm: Edit

The best way to go is with a 4 year undergrad degree and then if lucky, begin to work in the classroom. Most people can earn a Masters as part of the additional credits required now for permanent certification. Being a teacher for almost 20 years, there is no better training than actually doing the work "in the trenches" with the kids!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Motherof2, my daughter is not going into education but admits she loves teaching. She has coached kids in soccer, taught tap dance, teaches twice per week at her old elementary school, and will teach tennis/swimming this summer to elem aged kids. She is heading to Brown University, with the intention of exploring architecture.

I think your daughter might want to get the elem ed teaching certificate as an undergrad. Then she may want to teach a while and then can go back to grad school to get a Masters. Or some pursue a Masters while teaching even.

While I am much older than her generation (lol), I went to Tufts, became certified, taught school for 1 1/2 years (graduated college a half year early senior year), and then got my Master's in Education at Harvard Graduate School of Education (but as I said, was already a certified teacher). I think having experience as a teacher before graduate school was helpful. Even so, I was the youngest in my graduate school as most had even more years in between college and grad school than I did.

Again, if I can help you with Tufts, let me know. Also a student like your daughter (similar to mine academically) may get a major scholarship at a place like Lehigh....that was my daughter's safety school and I had no idea they gave out scholarships but she got a big one from them, so if your daughter likes that school, I say she may be in the running for that type of honor there as well from what I can tell. My daughter loved Tufts and almost went there. She liked it better than Penn where she got in. Ultimately she chose Brown though. I don't know your D's college criteria, only her basic stats, so it is hard to advise.

Susan

By Marcyr (Marcyr) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 06:06 pm: Edit

University of Delaware. The School of Education is exceptional, and with your daughter's grades and SATs she'd be a shoo-in for the Honors program. My daughter will be a junior there in El.Ed., and can't speak highly enough of the program.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 06:21 pm: Edit

I would look at the requirements for certification and where the teachers in some target schools have gone to school. When I lived in Pa, the vast, vast majority of teachers came from Pa state schools. In several of the highly desireable school districts, those colleges dominated the scene and the wait list for a teaching assignment was phenomonally long. I knew several very gifted young people there who had gone to highly selective schools and could not get a local teaching position at a public school which is where the money is in teaching. Also some states are not as welcoming for out of state teachers. The truth of the matter is that teaching is truly an overcrowded field in the more desireable schools. Opening are always available in the inner city school districts and outlying districts and places where the pay scales are still very low.

Just take a perusal of your local situation and draw your own conclusions. My S's private school pays a pittance to their staff and their teachers' roster is star studded as far as where they went to college. All ivies, little ivies and top 25 schools represented there. The local public school has no one from any ivy league school and the bulk of the teachers came from former teachers' colleges and state schools.

By Toblin (Toblin) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 06:44 pm: Edit

Jamimom said:

"The local public school has no one from any ivy league school and the bulk of the teachers came from former teachers' colleges and state schools."

SHOCKING!!! Now that's cultural/economic elitism at it's very worse. What a snob!

By Kk19131 (Kk19131) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 08:05 pm: Edit

"The local public school has no one from any ivy league school and the bulk of the teachers came from former teachers' colleges and state schools."

Here are the schools from where my teachers graduated (I’m in a public school in Philadelphia).

English: University of Pennsylvania
Math: Columbia University
History: University of Michigan
Design/Architecture: Rhode Island school of Design/Harvard School of Design
Science: Swarthmore College/University of Pennsylvania

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 08:19 pm: Edit

Then your public schools do have teachers from schools other than the state university system. My public school does not if the current directory that I have is accurate. And when I lived in Pittsburgh the vast majority of teachers came from regional colleges or the Pa state university system with a sprinking of imports from Ohio and West Virginia and I believe Michigan. I am only stating the situation. There are some districts that tend to hire more locally than others. If you are eyeing such districts for a job, then it behooves you to get your degree from a school where you are likely to be hired.

My personal opinion is for those who are not as specifically motivated to go into education to go where ever they want to college and get your education credentials on the side, over the summer and take a post grad year for the student teaching and certification. That way you have the best of both worlds. But I know several kids who already know they want to teach as soon as they are out of college, want to be an early childhood teacher (elementary ed), do not want study anything else, have a good idea where they want to teach and are very directed. For such kids, going to Clarion or Slippery Rock is good choice if they want to teach in Western Pa. Most of those who have gone that route have been successful in immediately making their goals.

I know several kids who are in that "Teach for America" program. They went to highly selective colleges, did not get certified but can teach in some high risk schools. But they are finding it difficult to get any other kind of teaching jobs. Their best bet is to go back to school and get their certification. And things differ from state to state, district to district. In some places it is to your disadvantage to earn a masters. You have a higher starting level which the cost conscious district does not want. They prefer teachers that are not quite there yet with minimum standards. Other areas require a masters to get your foot in the door. Teaching certificates are not always portable from state to state.

Toblin, don't know if the district is being snobbish (reverse snobbish) in the way they hire or if you think I am being a snob just sharing some facts that are in this directory in front of me.

By Kk19131 (Kk19131) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 08:48 pm: Edit

“In some places it is to your disadvantage to earn a masters. You have a higher starting level which the cost conscious district does not want. They prefer teachers that are not quite there yet with minimum standards. Other areas require a masters to get your foot in the door.”

This is very true, epically in large districts like Philadelphia, NYC, Chicago, etc; although the districts would rather have teachers with masters degrees, they just don’t have the funds to maintain such a district-wide faculty.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 08:55 pm: Edit

Don't think NYC anymore, KK19131. I believe NY now has a masters requirement for certification. Western Pa and possibly Ohio (when I lived in those places), it was better to be seeking employment as a teacher without that master's. The union in Pa, particularly, was powerful so salaries were good, and school districts often sought to keep costs down by hiring the teachers that cost the least at the onset. A masters required a higher pay basis. Forget getting hired with a phd. The trick was to get it after you were hired. Ideally, you would be just a course or two short of a master's and not mention it and get into the master's range after getting the job.

By Kk19131 (Kk19131) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 10:59 pm: Edit

That makes sense.

By Admissionsrep (Admissionsrep) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 12:22 am: Edit

You may want to be a little more open to Michigan St. It's an unbelievable school for elementary and secondary education and you can get some great plane prices from Philly to Detroit. Lansing is only 85 miles away.

There certainly are other great schools besides MSU, but MSU is the top rated one and it may be worth it; it's 600 miles away so it's not like it's in Colorado, Texas or Florida.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 12:45 pm: Edit

To the original poster - you might want to take a look at Skidmore. They have a very good early childhood education program. I believe Connecticut College may as well.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Yes, Conn College is an excellent choice. I applied there way back when for that program though ended up at Tufts instead. But Conn College is a good choice for the OP given her academic credentials, so glad you thought of it, Carolyn! My D had that as a safety school and she was in the ballpark of the OP's daughter.

Susan

By Motherof2 (Motherof2) on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 09:35 am: Edit

Thanks for the ideas.
Yes, most teachers in our elementary schools have gone to PA state schools.
Connecticut College is smaller than what my daughter thinks she wants.
Is anyone familiar with the elem ed/teacher certification programs at Brandeis, William and Mary, Boston U, Dickinson, Lehigh or Vassar?