Colgate vs Bucknell vs Lafayette

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Discus: College Search and Selection: June 2004 Archive: Colgate vs Bucknell vs Lafayette
By Oldman (Oldman) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 10:18 pm: Edit

Live in the deep south - would like to visit northern LAC's with good academics, sports/spirit, active social life...any opinion about these 3 or others? Thanks.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 10:43 pm: Edit

Colgate is the most selective. Also the the furthest north. I think it is similar to Dartmouth in many respects. Bucknell is a bit more accessible off of route 80, though still 3 and a half hours from any city, about an hour away from Penn State's main campus. Lafayette is the least selective, the only one of three that has merit aid and is closer to NYC and Philly with Lehigh as its neighbor. All three are excellent schools.

By Philvid2 (Philvid2) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 11:06 pm: Edit

Just to add to Jamimon's comments. Colgate is probably as accessible as Bucknell since it is close to I-81. Also, Bucknell is only half an hour from Williamsport, and an hour and 15 minutes from Harrisburg.

By Par72 (Par72) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Might want to look at Holy Cross-very good academics also part of the Patriot League with Colgate,Bucknell,etc. HC has great school spirit and the strongest athletic reputation-Bob Cousy 1947 NCAA Basketball Champs, Orange Bowl team, NCAA baseball champs. Nice campus-1 hour from Boston with strong alumni network.

By Philvid2 (Philvid2) on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 11:39 pm: Edit

Bucknell won the first Orange Bowl in 1935 while Holy Cross lost the only time they played in the game, back in 1946

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 12:59 pm: Edit

What do you want to study? Lafayette has an excellent science program. If you're going to look at Lafayette and Bucknell, I'd suggest you add Lehigh, Dickinson, Gettysburg, and Haverford to your list of places to visit. All are very good schools.

By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 01:04 pm: Edit

not to be biased.. but out of all those schools lehigh is the only actual univeristy...which is pretty cool since it is comparable in size to all the other colleges listed above

By Oldman (Oldman) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 12:17 am: Edit

thanks...can you give me an idea of driving time from say Philly to these places? Also any particular striking posive or negative re: schools cited?

By Caliel130 (Caliel130) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 12:25 am: Edit

Colgate is a University

By Spiffybrownboy (Spiffybrownboy) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 12:46 am: Edit

Colgate is NOT a full-fledged university. "Colgate University" and "Bucknell University" are just names... they don't actually mean university as in schools granting doctoral degrees. Hence, they are classified as liberal arts colleges, regardless of their names.

And to the OP, I really don't know. They are all great schools. If you're not into the whole conservative and preppy thing, you might want to rethink Colgate. Bucknell is very nice from what I hear (I have a very intelligent friend going there next year). I've stayed at Lehigh and I'm sure it's a wonderful school, but their dorms BLOW.

By Par72 (Par72) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 12:59 am: Edit

Colgate-very remote,preppy, very cold with lots of snow-long winters. Holy Cross-Jesuit school with emphasis on recruiting national student body,perhaps best location-less than 1 hour from Boston. Lafayette-smallest enrollment,more regional student body, perhaps in athletic shadow of Lehigh. Bucknell-nice campus but like Colgate remote location.

By Baltodad (Baltodad) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 06:28 am: Edit

We checked out Bucknell. Very nice campus, friendly student body, and good academics. Like Lafayette, it's one of the few LACs to offer a quality engineering program.

By Rhkid005 (Rhkid005) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 01:29 pm: Edit

Lafayette is about an hour away from Philly, and it's just a little further to New York City. The town, Easton, isn't great, but it's gotten better, and the campus is gorgeous and is on a hill pearched above the town.

Colgate and Bucknell are significantly more isolated.

By Oldman (Oldman) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 03:45 pm: Edit

Thanks!! Even though not small any comments about Penn State honors program? Again driving from Philly to Penn State? By the way we are in Alabama - if anybody has a question about southern schools maybe I can return the favor.

By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 05:37 pm: Edit

lehigh is 60miles from philly i believe...if your into the whole social seen it definitely tops the list of the previously mentioned schools

By Philvid2 (Philvid2) on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 09:53 pm: Edit

How are the economic or business departments of Colgate, Bucknell, and Lafayette?

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 08:30 am: Edit

Colgate doesn't have a business program but its economics department is among the best in the country. Most econ majors go onto top MBA programs and/or top financial/banking/investment firms, usually on Wall Street.

As for other LACs in the Northeast for consideration along with all the others posted in this thread, look at Trinity, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Bates, Colby, Tufts, Wesleyan, Vassar, Union, Williams and Amherst.

BTW, about Colgate: it has become very selective with rigorous academics and is considered to be the 9th Ivy.

By Philvid2 (Philvid2) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Thanks Collegeparent!

Do you know anything about Bucknell or Lafayette's departments?

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 02:54 pm: Edit

Bucknell has separate business administration (management) and economics departments; Lafayette has a combined economics and business department. Graduates from both schools have done very well in business, especially in the Northeast and Midwest. You should go on line to their websites for more information, Colgate's too.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 03:55 pm: Edit

I don't know any Ivy alum, students or faculty who consider any school a "9th Ivy." I am sure, though that there are places that are claiming such a title for themselves just as there are many places that claim to be the "Harvard" of their part of the country. My favorite such "Harvard" is the "Harvard on the bayou." :)

I do agree, though, that Colgate has a nice reputation.

By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 04:33 pm: Edit

yeah 9th ivy is a bit exaggerated... I have heard similar connotations for duke and georgetown... but for colgate? I think colgate still has sime time before they get past the toothpaste comparison

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 05:22 pm: Edit

Actually, Colgate falls between the Ivies and the Little Ivies of Amherst, Williams and Wesleyan. It's a hybrid, providing the best of both a large university and an LAC: magnificent campus (even as remote as it is), rigorous academics and top athletic teams. As for the toothpaste comparison, Scubasteve, that's a bit juvenile on your part, but the Colgate students are used to it and have a response of being so happy there, that they have to keep their teeth clean and bright because they're always smiling.

Also, Scubasteve, as for Colgate being the 9th Ivy, if the Ivy League were to expand, the first school to be approached would be Colgate, which is something that has been around since the Ivy's inception in 1954. The Ivy League was originally 10 schools (Army & Navy were part of the original league, got out after a couple of years and is now grouped with Colgate in the Patriot League). Georgetown was rumored to be the 10th school but won't give up its Jesuit connection to do so.

By Oldman (Oldman) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Thanks to everybody...particularly Collegeparent and Northstarmom...we have a kid about to enter UVA and another right behind him...Maybe an odd comparison given UVA is a moderately large state school but how would Colgate compare? Academics-social-whatever...Thanks again.

By Spiffybrownboy (Spiffybrownboy) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 08:55 pm: Edit

Oops.. just checking up on my posts and noticed I wrote that the dorms at Lehigh were bad. I meant Lafayette... sorry!

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 09:39 pm: Edit

UVa is probably the best of the state universities, followed by Cal Berkeley, Michigan, UNC and Wisconsin, IMHO. Colgate is a private and smaller institution (about 2,700 students), equally as remote as UVa and with as beautiful a campus (architecture is different, granite and limestone vs. red brick), but Hamilton, NY is quite small and is no Charlottesville. Colgate's academics are as rigorous as UVa and the spirit on campus is contagious (especially during the Cornell hockey game). The same stats and qualifications would be needed to get into both schools, but the schools offer different campus experiences, although the kids might be basically regional (north vs. south) versions of each other.

By Par72 (Par72) on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 11:59 pm: Edit

Believe there are currently more Holy Cross grads who are Fortune 500 CEO'S than Colgate alums. Also while Colgate has long athletic ties to Princeton and nearby Cornell, Holy Cross is the oldest non-Ivy rival of Harvard, Dartmouth, Yale and Brown ( over 100 years). The Colgate-HC rivalry is also storied aithough not as old as Lafayette-Lehigh. Colgate, Holy Cross and Bucknell are all great LAC's.

By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 12:13 am: Edit

if you think about it.. the whole patriot league is like a second level ivy league

similar size schools, traditions, top selectivity and academics.... just a slight notch down from the ivies

There was a post a while back about how the acc stacks up against the big 10 and pac 10 and so on

If you look at it from a more broad perspective... the ivy league is probably the top conference ... followed by the patriot league

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 04:57 am: Edit

Actually Par72, I think the greatest number of Fortune 500 CEOs are Penn State grads, but I could be wrong on that.

Anyway, the thing to remember in this Ivy vs. Patriot League debate is that we're discussing athletic leagues here, not academic ones. The Ivy may not be the top academic conference either since a couple of schools from the Patriot League are equal to if not better than a few of the Ivies, depending of course on particular departments. For example, one could argue that Lehigh Engineering is comparable to that at Columbia and Cornell, and that the Political Science and Economics departments at Colgate are on a par with Penn, Dartmouth and Brown. All of which could be an apples & oranges situation.

In addition, the NESCAC, a D-3 organization, may take Scubasteve to task about his claim on behalf of the Patriot League. You can be sure a few of the Amherst, Williams, Bates, Middlebury and Wesleyan supporters would question a Patriot League school like Towson or American as being academically in the same category, i.e. sub-Ivy.

The point in all of this is that academic excellence in a school is not related to its belonging to a particular athletic league. While some could make a case for a co-dependency of purposes, such is not the case -- or else Stanford and MIT would've joined the Ivies long ago as the 9th & 10th members. Another thing to note is that the Ivy League does little to dissuade a differentiation between an academic vs. an athletic determination since it maintains a cachet or prestige (elitism?) that serves the marketing of all eight schools quite well. However, as fragmentation increases in academe and individual schools specialize and are recognized for their unique qualities, that Ivy cachet will fade. One only has to look at the postings on CC this year of students preferring schools such as Stanford, Duke, Georgetown, Amherst, Swathmore, CalTech, MIT, Northwestern, Colgate, Chicago, CMU, Middlebury and Boston College, for example, to the Ivies.

By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 10:17 am: Edit

I agree with the downplay of athletic conferences in respect to academic superiority
..however athletic conferences do exist, and people pretty much rank EVERYTHING so pitting conferences against one another is just another thing for the enthusiasts to fixate over

on a side note: towson isnt in the patriot league, it is in the colonial athletic conference

patriot league
Holy Cross

I said it is like a second ivy league not just based on raw academics.. the traditions, school sizes, even conference size (8) etc. of the schools are very similar as well

the NESCAC is phenominal as well however they are all small lacs which differs from the ivy league comparison

American isnt that bad, but definitely not up to par with the other schools in the conference
..besides trinity and hamilton arent THAT impressive

By Par72 (Par72) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 01:21 am: Edit

Boston College is overrated-was a scond tier university 15-20 years ago. BC was an average commuter school and while popular as is BU and NYU, it does not have the academic tradition of the Patriot League schools of Colgate,Holy Cross etc.

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 09:30 am: Edit

Par72, your comments about BC are perceptive, but you have to remember "the Flutie factor." After his famous Hail Mary pass got him the Heisman, Flutie was responsible for a 20-25% increase in applications to BC, thus increasing its selectivity and other admission stats. It allowed BC to increase its academic standing from being a commuter school to one of respect within certain circles. There is no doubt that BC is a much better school than it was 10-15 years ago (pre-Flutie factor). Because Boston remains the most popular city in which to go to college, BC is now on a par with Tufts in getting those students who are not quite "Harvard material." Also entering that group is BU -- and because of demand, Northeastern will soon shed its commuter school image as it raises its sights.

I also concur about your comment about the Patriot League schools being proud of their academic tradition, much like the Ivy League in that respect.

By Oldman (Oldman) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 11:10 am: Edit

While not on par with Ivy League,etc. the ACC is overlooked (I am a biased UVA grad). Duke,UVA,North Carolina, Ga Tech and Wake are all good or better.....Maryland and NC State improving....soon to add BC, Miami and Va Tech.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 11:16 am: Edit

BC was a tough school this year from an admissions standpoint. I have no preference among the CBL group and it is truly an individual choice. Don't think you can go far wrong any way you choose. I've known many kids who love all of those schools. And few with negative comments other than the possible seclusion by location that is an issue with any outlying school.

By Oldman (Oldman) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 12:58 pm: Edit

Is it not true that essentially all selective schools this year were tough to get into? Locally bright applicants with solid credentials were hit or miss. For instance kids with SAT>1500,high ranks,varsity sports,etc./ were rejected at Virginia (out of state).

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 01:06 pm: Edit

Gotta agree with you, Oldman, about the ACC. Perhaps Maryland, NC State, Va Tech and Miami are raising their academic stats for admission in order to compete with their fellow ACC schools in that arena as well. It's a win-win situation all around.

Perhaps too that incentive can transfer to a couple of the other athletic conferences, e.g. the Pac-12 where Stanford and CalBerkeley are far ahead of the competition (but being dogged by USC & UWash) and the Big 10 where Michigan, Northwestern and Wisconsin lead the others (but Penn State & Illinois are close behind).

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 04:55 pm: Edit

S, a rising junior, just got a letter from Lafayette, which added to my interest in the school. It does seem like a wonderful place.

Please keep those comments coming about it and similar schools. S is considering majoring in engineering, and also enjoys art and creative writing.

One big question for us is: How accessible are these colleges from airports? S is unlikely to have a car in college, and would be flying in from another part of the country.

I also would be interested in what the admission/social seen is like for URMs. S is black, has many friends of various races. He is not into sports, but really likes academics and community service. He would like to go to a competitive college where the students like academics and the professors enjoy teaching.

He is carrying a 3.0 unweighted in an IB program. His predicted SAT scores are in the low 1400s based on his previous tests, including his soph PSATs and 7th grade SAT.

He is unlikely to qualify for need-based aid, and merit aid would be very important to us.

By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 05:10 pm: Edit


If you are going to consider any school in the patrtiot league for engineering, look no further than lehigh. It is hands down the best. Lehigh is actually a university but with only 4,656 total enrollment. Similar to lafayette, the two schools actually have a tradition rich rivalry with one another. The Lehigh ciriculum encourages cross disciplinary learning, so your son would take classes not only in the engineering school but also in arts and sciences and even in their business college if he wanted to. I'm not sure how accessible Lehigh is to airports, I would imagine its not so bad. Philly is only 50 miles aways, and nyc is 75miles from it. Beautiful campus check it out on their website.

Your son may even have some merit aid thrown his way as nearly all schools in the patriot league are desperate for minorities

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 05:59 pm: Edit

Thanks for the tip on Lehigh. Why does the Patriot League have trouble attracting minorities?

By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 06:19 pm: Edit

To tell you the truth i dont really know.. I guess old school tradition, which is now finally changing. I mean historically most lacs tend to be filled with upper middle class whites. Even a premiere school like Colgate is 81% Caucasian. However times have changed and now URM's are extremely desirable candidates at these schools. It also appears that they are opening more doors up to the lower class, by giving out hefty fin aid packages.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 07:00 pm: Edit

The Patriot League is a group of schools that are not as well known as the ivies or "little ivies". They tend to be located in outlying locations that are not easy to get to. They do not have the name recognition, in part for that reason and also because of their size. They tend to be located in areas that have few minorities and most kids go to school within a hour or so from home or to a large city. For division 1 sports, they are small schools. They are also very expensive schools and have long been on the lists of the prep schools as they still are. As a result their legacy pools and feeder schools do not tend to include URMs.

It would be well worth a trip there for you and S since Lehigh and Lafeyette are within spitting distance of each other. Both great schools. Also you might want to take a peek at Swarthmore if you fly in via Philly as it also has engineering along with being a strong LAC. Though they give very few merit awards, they do have a few. They just might have something for URMs; there are some special categories, I know.

By Par72 (Par72) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 12:01 am: Edit

Excertion being Holy Cross location wise-1 hour from Boston

Holy Cross has the best location-1 hour from Boston. Also due to its 'old' athletic tradition has one of the largest on-campus football stadiums -25,000 capacity built in the 1920's when they played Syracuse,Penn State,BC etc.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 01:03 am: Edit

Yes, I am excluding Holy Cross and the academies.
Did not know American was in that league; being in DC it is also does not fit my isolated description. Really, I was referring to Bucknell, Colgate, Lehigh and Lafeyette regardless of what league they are in.

My son should have looked at Holy Cross more carefully but the name turned him off. Said that many of those Catholic schools should do a name change to boost their application numbers. LOL And we are Catholic.

By Nealious (Nealious) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 01:38 am: Edit

Northstarmom, Lehigh's a very good university with focus on Engineering. Its acceptance rate is around 17% I believe, and average SAT score is in the area of 1300. May not be near the Ivy league level of awesomeness, but its pretty darn good. Word on the street is that most of the undergraduate students tend to be upperclass/preppy and white. Maybe you should check out diversity if thats a factor in your sons decision?

It's really close to Lehigh Valley ABE area airport, probably a 15 minute drive at most, or a 25 minute bus ride. While you are up in the area, its only a 45 minute drive to UPenn, Drexel, Lafayette, and some other places.

OldMan, Lafayette has good academics and a great social scene. Bucknell is really rural, and probably not that fun because of its location. It's a good school that recently contructed a new biomedical research building. Don't know much about Colgate.

By Nealious (Nealious) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 01:44 am: Edit

Link to Lehigh's engineering website. I'm sure it knows much more than I do.

Am I allowed to post links on here? I apologize if I'm not.

By Nealious (Nealious) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 02:02 am: Edit

ugh, i lied. Acceptance rate is 17% for their special integrated business/engineering program. Not the normal undergrad programs.

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 08:36 am: Edit

I believe Colgate shares an engineering program with Columbia in NYC; it'd be worth looking into that. Also, check out Cornell for engineering; it's hardly a small campus (13,000 undergrads). Of the three schools mentioned, Bucknell has a very solid engineering program. But again Lehigh is the place for engineering (they used to be called the Engineers, but changed to Mountain Hawks to get away from the "pocket-protector" image). All four of these schools are remote, especially Colgate; the others are closer to an interstate. Visits to all of these campuses are definitely encouraged.

By Oldman (Oldman) on Saturday, June 12, 2004 - 04:16 pm: Edit

What is Lehigh like re: social - have read it is ~60% male. Is that a problem?

By Philvid2 (Philvid2) on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 11:27 pm: Edit

I don't mean to steal this thread, but since it fits here, I'll ask it here. I just learned that all three of these schools dropped their SAT II requirements, but they still recommend them. How would submitting them, or not submitting them, help or hurt you at Colgate, Bucknell, and Lafayette?

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 02:47 am: Edit

Par 72 - great plug for Holy Cross athletics - a Basketball championship 57 years ago. You forgot their 1953 badminton team. . .I think they almost beat Notre Dame that year.

Northstarmom - I know of a couple of Midwestern students who have liked Union College. A liberal arts school with good engineering and a solid English department. Some merit awards too. Greek system is strong but not dominant. 30 minutes from the Albany airport.

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 08:23 am: Edit

Philvid2, your comment about these three schools dropping their SAT II requirements seems to fly in the face of their increasingly competitive admissions qualifications, especially as demonstrated this year. They raised the bar very high this year; for example, the kids who were accepted by Colgate this year from a local high school all had over 1450 on their SAT Is and nothing lower than 680 on SAT IIs (most were over 740); for Lafayette and Bucknell, the kids accepted were over 650 on the SAT IIs. With the success of their admission classes this year, it seems almost improbable that they would lower their standards while they are in fact so obviously raising them. I think your statement requires further investigation.

By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 10:20 am: Edit

"What is Lehigh like re: social - have read it is ~60% male. Is that a problem? "


simply put the social scene at lehigh is phenominal. I'm a social kind of guy, enjoy parties and such which is why lehigh is great. It was ranked as the #20 best party school by playboy magazine a few years ago, yet it still maintains its academic greatness. Greek scene is very big there. The schools motto is "work hard, party harder." However its hard to get past the work hard part of that motto. Their courseload, especially for engineering has been compared with cornell's in terms of difficulty.

By Philvid2 (Philvid2) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 11:45 am: Edit

Go to:
or download the application instructions which specifically state their SAT II policy

Now back to my question

By Collegeparent (Collegeparent) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 12:14 pm: Edit

Philvid2 -- I stand corrected. Thanks for the links. While not required, they are recommended, but I don't think that submitting them would hurt -- Perhaps with the changeover to the new SATs next March, the thinking must be that the SAT IIs won't be as necessary or add to the mix. However, I think that the SAT IIs could be helpful, especially if the scores are quite solid. There are schools such as Bowdoin and Sarah Lawrence which have discontinued the SAT Is, but am sure that they can't help but be considered if they're submitted. Anything that can raise a candidate above others with the same stats and qualifications (such as good SAT II scores) would be recommended.

By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 12:26 pm: Edit

Little trick with sat II's and schools that only "recommend" them.

Take all three on the same day (or however many you want to take) however make sure these are the last collegeboard tests you take (ie. finished with sat) and that your sat scores have already been sent.

By doing this you have just brought back score choice for yourself. Once you get the results, if you liek the scores send them to the school... if you dont like the scores, don't send and no one will ever see since you have already sent your sat scores. By doing this you have optimized your situation for a school that only "recommends."

Better to send no score at all than a bad score in that case since it is not required

By Rhkid005 (Rhkid005) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 12:28 pm: Edit

Northstarmom: Lafayette has a GREAT art department. They just built an incredible new art building, and both the art and art history professors are top notch.

If your son is more into the arts than sports, the Patriot League schools might not be the best place for him (although engineering is a plus). They all attract sporty students. Also, they aren't quite as good for URMs as some other liberal arts colleges (simply because they have a more conservative image and are located in more rural locations).

By Cangel (Cangel) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 01:50 pm: Edit

Oldman, we too, are visiting "up North" LACs from the deep South, and would be interested in exchanging info, as our visit list is a little different, but DD has expressed interest in Colgate and Lafayette. I also e-mailed you, if you have info.
Access to an airport is a concern for us as well.

By Njjunior (Njjunior) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 04:56 pm: Edit


By Oldman (Oldman) on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 09:07 pm: Edit

Cangel, sent you an email. Of note a good # of these schools are remote...not near a "major" airport anyhow...nevertheless all accesible.

By Scubasteve (Scubasteve) on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 - 12:54 am: Edit

lehigh is about an hour from both nyc and philly...

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