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Hello,

If anyone could be helpful I would appreciate it.

My Son will be a Senior next year. He just got his SAT scores of 780 Math and 700 verbal. He has a GPA of 3.5 a little low because he is a nationally ranked tennis player and spends two hours minimum per day on it. He is also 50% American Indian.

We have no idea where to start the process of which schools he would qualify for. Obviously he wants to attend the best school possible but how can we determine what category or criteria he would fit?

Thank you in advance for any comments.

By Creamer515 (Creamer515) on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 02:25 pm: Edit

I have 1480 (780 M 700 V) and 3.7, and i play tennis! im going to cornell... definitely check it out.

By Playtothebeat (Playtothebeat) on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 02:27 pm: Edit

you should probably look for scholarships in tennis first of all..
sounds like he's a rather good player (what's his name, by the way?).

after that, if none of the prestige schools give you any scholarships (such as UCLA, USC, Stanford, Illinois etc - the top tennis schools in the nation), look for just academic scholarships.
maybe he can go into a great, instead of awesome, school but play tennis there?

look at schools like Univ. of Washington - one of the better colleges in the nation with one of the better tennis teams

By Momx4 (Momx4) on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Espressoguy, your son has high enough SAT's to get him into any college; in addition he is an athlete and an under-represented minority. Remember that the Ivies and the other top schools are a crap shoot for everybody so he shouldn't assume he will get in- he should still apply to safety schools but I think he has an excellent chance at the top schools.

By Haon (Haon) on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 09:51 pm: Edit

Your son has the qualifications to apply anywhere he wants. While obviously he should not assume admittance to the Ivies and apply to some safety school, I think his chances are fairly positive to even the top-most schools in the country.

By Bigtymer2454 (Bigtymer2454) on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 09:58 pm: Edit

"He is also 50% American Indian"

try dartmouth, they absolutely LOVE native americans - add that w/ a nationally ranked tennis player and his SAT and I would be shocked if he didn't get in

By Espressoguy (Espressoguy) on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 12:28 am: Edit

Thank you all very much for your input. I knew he scored well on the SAT's but was concerned his 3.5GPA might disqualify him from the top schools.

This is very encouraging.

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 01:43 am: Edit

Espressoguy -

Start by sorting out his academic and career interests, his preferences for big school vs. small; urban vs. rural; east coast vs. midwest vs etc. These issues are more important that rankings, prestige factors etc..

Also figure out if he wants to play tennis in college. It's fun, but as you have already realized, it takes time away from schoolwork. Both the tennis and the academics are going to be tougher at college; maybe a lot tougher.

If he is nationally ranked, he would certainly have a shot at a Div I university scholarship, and could get a big application boost at a selective liberal arts school with Div III athletics. URM status is another big boost -- everywhere.

Family financial situation is another factor to sort out. If money is not an issue - then forget about it. If it is, and he is willing to play tennis, a Div I uni scholarship or an LAC that would give someone with his stats merit aid are going to be your best bets.

If you've got answers on some of these issues I'd post more detail on the Parent's Forum and see what sort of responses you get. Good luck.

By Espressoguy (Espressoguy) on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 02:42 am: Edit

Reidmc, At this point he thinks he wants to take business and then law. He is nationally ranked but not a good enough ranking to play on say Harvards team. He is 200 nationally. He wants to play tennis in College and I think it would be good for him for focus but he REALLY wants to further his education and not give it up just to play tennis. Financially we are going to need help.

By Any1can (Any1can) on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 08:56 am: Edit

If your son is a nationally ranked tennis player and wants to play in college, make sure he fills out the NCAA form (on-line)if he hasn't already by the end of this year so coaches can look him up for academic standing and he can start the process of getting cleared. You really should do it now rather than later. Make sure he fills out recruiting forms at the colleges he is interested in. Follow up if he doesn't here anything because sometimes they get lost.There is usually a recruiting form on most college athletics web-sites somewhere. Do that now also because soon there will be a period that coaches can't call you for awhile. Maybe a Div. 1AA or 11 would be good. Have him fill out Div. 1 also. You never know. Maybe his coach would be of some help.

By Interesteddad (Interesteddad) on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 12:46 pm: Edit

You need to read a book called "The Gatekeepers" about a year with an admissions officer at Wesleyan.

A Native American is one of the most highly prized "catches" for any elite college admissions office. Combine that with a national ranking in tennis and very good SAT scores and I would say that your son's chances are very good at almost any school to which he applies. I say almost any because I really can't translate the GPA. It's easier to gauge class rank, especially relative to the type of high school.

Go to the library and read the suggested book. It will be eye-opening, I assure you.

By Haon (Haon) on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 01:27 pm: Edit

If your son is at all interested in liberal arts colleges I'd recommend looking at Middlebury and Williams. Both have phenomenal tennis programs (1st and 2nd in the country this year respectively) and both have exceptional econ departments. Williams in particular has an amazing reputation in the business and i-banking world.

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 03:15 pm: Edit

Espressoguy -

Bottom-line, your son is in very good shape for top schools even though his GPA is not stellar. Though his GPA and his tennis game may not be quite up to elite university standards, his SAT score and URM status give him a shot.

I'd definitely get him to think about small vs. large schools. To my mind, selective small schools are the best law school prep and a better bet for integrating athletics and academics. Downside here is that small schools (Div III) do not offer athletic scholarships and not many top small schools offer undergrad business degrees. The latter can be tempered with interships and summer work, and to my mind not that big a deal if law school is the ultimate goal. A large university would have the opportunity to offer an athletic scholarship and in most cases a business undergrad degree. Negatives here are the demands of Div I athletics (even tennis)and the possibility for a student to get lost or distracted in the crowd.

Three other thoughts:

1) Check to see where some of the players your son has competed with have gone to school and whether or not they got scholarships. That should help you gauge his chances to play for a particular school or "level" of school.

2) If you have not done it already there is some important homework for you on the financial side. Grab a book or two on the subject. Also, you can go to www.finaid.com, click on "Calculators," and "Expected Family Contribution" to get an idea of where you stand. Small liberal arts schools and private universities will use the Institutional Methodology to determine what aid you would qualify for on a need basis. I am not as familiar with need aid at public universities, but that is where his tennis could override the standard aid guidelines with an athletic scholarship.

3) If your expected family contribution (EFC)is one you can manage, most any selective school would be fair game for your son. If that EFC is too high, you will want to research three types of schools - a) Div I universities that would offer him a tennis scholarship, b) Div III colleges and universities that would offer merit aid to someone with his academic record and test scores, c) schools that would have merit aid and scholarships for Native Americans. This is a lot of work but worth the effort.

Search the Parent's Forum under "Best Merit Awards From Where?" to get some schools that offer merit aid. Also, one of a very few small liberal arts colleges with Div I athletics (read: athletic scholarships) is Colgate. Well-respected by law schools and corporate employers in the Northeast. Good luck.

By Cangel (Cangel) on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 03:41 pm: Edit

Look into Davidson College in NC. It has both athletic (small Division I like Colgate) and some merit scholarships, and would most likely be interested in his URM status.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 02:17 am: Edit

His scores are sky high for any URM. His being a nationally ranked athlete also is a big deal, and would be a tip even without his being Native American.

I know a Native American with a very similar background and stats who got into Dartmouth. The bottom stats for Ivies are 1200 SAT and a 3.0. The candidates that come in with such stats are rare and tend to be big donor's kids, recruited athletes, first generation college students, students who have had major disadvantages, and some URMs. Your son clearly has stats well above those. Based on his sky high SAT scores, I also assume that he is taking a rigorous curriculum, which is a big plus.

I think your son has a more than average chance at any college, including Harvard. Do, though, keep in mind the finances. While Ivies give aid up to the level of financial need, depending on your own income, you could be paying $15 k or even more each year. (If you happen to have a household income of $40 k or lower, though, I am fairly sure that Harvard and Princeton would give him a full ride. Check their web sites on this.)

Your son's profile is good enough that he should have decent chances to qualify for admission plus major aid, possibly full scholarships from several top 30 colleges. and many other colleges in the country. In fact, come fall, I anticipate your son's problem will be gracefully turning down college's offers to fly him in for free visits. With his tennis schedule, he won't have the time to accept all of those offers.

Some top colleges that give great merit aid plus are places for him to consider are: Washington U in St. Louis (ranked #10 in the country), Duke, University of North Carolina, University of Wisconsin, Wake Forest, and Davidson, which Cangel also mentioned. Stanford not only is very diverse and guarantees to meet 100% of students' demonstrated financial need, it also gives athletic scholarships, something few colleges of its caliber do.

I do not suggest applying ED because your son is a highly desireable candidate for elite colleges, and ED would reduce his options, including for assessing various financial aid offers. He doesn't need the tip that ED gives at some schools.

Instead of asking what is the best college your son can get into, think about what kind of environment your son wants for college, and what kinds of places in which he feels fulfilled, what he wants to major in and what he wants to do in terms of ECs when he's in college.

Post again so we can give suggestions about what colleges would best fill his own needs. Picking the best fit is a big part of the college application process.

Even if he can get into a Harvard or a Stanford, that may not be the kind of atmosphere that he wants. For instance, he may wish to be in a smaller environment or in a different part of the country. He also could have specialized interests that would narrow the field of potential match colleges considerably.

I am an alumni interviewer for Harvard and am black, so have some personal familiarity with admissions for URMs.

Stick around. CC is a great place to get info!

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Thursday, May 20, 2004 - 02:32 am: Edit

Also do a google search and find a Washington Post article last Oct. or Nov. that was about how colleges are desperate to recruit underrepresented minorities with high SAT scores.

The article tends to focus on African Americans, but you can extrapolate to Native Americans. For instance, there were fewer than 100 African Americans in the country who scored higher than 1500 on the SAT. Imagine how few Native Americans scored as high as your son did!

The article is archived now, and you have to pay a couple of bucks to get it, but the price is well worth it.

I think that if you also look in the counselors' section of the College Board's web site, you'll find charts showing SAT scores by racial/ethnic group. That also will help you develop a fuller understanding of how much your son will stand out in the application pool at any college.