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I'm currently finishing my sophomore year, and I'm beginning to look into possible colleges. I have a rough idea of what I want in a school, and I also have a VERY preliminary list of possible colleges. I'm interested in knowing which of these colleges DON'T match my criteria.

WHAT I WANT IN A COLLEGE
Russian/Slavic language/literature/culture major or minor
a biochem/molecular biology major (or a biology or chemistry major I can tailor to biochem)
undergraduate research opportunities in immunology and/or molecular biology
not a lot of TA's teaching introductory classes
nice campus without busy streets running through it
safe campus/surrounding area
a social scene not dominated by drinking/drugs/smoking/frats
relatively nice student housing which is guaranteed (or at least easy to get) for all four years
a good number of Christian student organizations
not a lot of (if any) cutthroat competition (i.e. in premed intro classes)
a registrar that accepts AP scores of 4 and 5 for credit
maybe a Great Books/intellectual history-type of major/minor/program/etc.
ethnic diversity

SCHOOLS I'M THINKING ABOUT
Columbia University
Duke University
Harvard University
Occidental College
Pomona College
Princeton University
Saint Mary's College of California
Santa Clara University
Stanford University
UC Berkeley
UC Davis
UC San Diego
Yale University

Again, tell me which schools DON'T match my criteria. Thanks!

By Tropicanabanana (Tropicanabanana) on Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 06:55 pm: Edit

Harvard doesn't accept a score of 4.
Yale doesn't accept a wide number of 5's.

By Nicksummers (Nicksummers) on Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 07:28 pm: Edit

It seems like you're looking at many of the wrong kind of schools for your interests (if they are that dominant in your college search). Look into more of the so-called "liberal arts" colleges like Pomona and Occidental that you listed above.

By Call_Me_Ishmael (Call_Me_Ishmael) on Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 09:13 pm: Edit

You should check out University of Chicago . . . and don't let people try to scare you with the whole "the campus isn't safe" thing, it's no more dangerous than any of the other school in a major urban center.

But if cites do make you uncomfortable, stay away from Yale and UPenn.

By Tropicanabanana (Tropicanabanana) on Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 09:17 pm: Edit

"nice campus without busy streets running through it"

I misread this and thought you said WITH busy streets.

Cross off Harvard. Columbia doesn't have busy streets on its central campus (right outside, though)and Yale's streets aren't all that busy on the actual campus.

If you don't want TA's, probably cross off the UC's. Yale and Harvard have TA's, but it's also easy to avoid them and find smaller classes.

By Nikelaos (Nikelaos) on Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 09:29 pm: Edit

I can only speak for Columbia, and will be completely biased towards it since I'm going there in the fall (hehe :P) but I think a couple of elements you are looking for match VERY well with what Columbia has to offer:

undergraduate research opportunities in immunology and/or molecular biology

I don't know much about the Biology department at Columbia, as I'm going to major in something quite far from it (Architecture) but I do know that Columbia is known as a leading research institution...

nice campus without busy streets running through it
safe campus/surrounding area

Believe it or not, even though Columbia is located smack in NYC, the campus itself is beautiful (in my opinion) and very, very serene. It's kind of closed off to the rest of the city, but still opens onto the streets of Morningside Heights, a very quaint, peaceful, neighborhood-like environment surrounding Columbia.
Yes, it's located quite close to Harlem, but it takes several city blocks of wandering if you really want to end up there... Moreover, Morningside Heights, the immediately surrounding area, is FAR from "ghetto," and campus security is top-notch.

relatively nice student housing which is guaranteed (or at least easy to get) for all four years

I can't say housing is exactly extraordinary at Columbia, but it's pretty nice I think. The structures themselves are gorgeous (check my pics here, here, here, here, and here) but the rooms are pretty standard I guess. It IS guaranteed for all four years, though ;)

maybe a Great Books/intellectual history-type of major/minor/program/etc.

OK, of all the schools you listed, this is the one domain in which Columbia rules, by FAR (again, rather partial opinion though ;P). Check out Columbia's Core Curriculum (aka The Core)... I think you'll like it.

Of course, Columbia probably is fantastic in the other domains you listed as well.. I just don't have enough information to have a solid opinion, so don't be freaked out if I didn't answer your questions about the TAs teaching undergrad classes haha...

In any case, I just realized I didn't answer your question at all and got way too carried away... haha. Good luck with your search though... Hope others can strike out some colleges for you ;)

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 09:33 pm: Edit

Actually, I would suggest a totally different list for you. Try:
Hope College in Michigan (has one of the most outstanding undergrad science research programs in the country)
Knox College in Illinois (good bio, good russian language and a russian study abroad program)
Lawrence University in Wisconsin
Pepperdine U in Calif (excellent bio)
for starters...

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 11:32 pm: Edit

Rigorous application of all of your criteria will blow away at least half of your schools. I agree with Carolyn, and suggest you dump your current list and build one from the ground up, based on your criteria rather than proximity or prestige.

Review your criteria and split them into two groups: (1) absolutely necessary and (2) nice extras. Then use a variety of resources - Fiske and Princeton Review guides; college websites etc to identify the schools that really satisfy your key criteria. Don't be afraid to adjust your criteria over the next year; just don't adjust it simply to get a few more prestigious schools on the list. If UCs and Ivies make your list. . .fine. . .but don't start with them.

Keep a big list of schools until you have another semester of grades and some PSAT/SAT results. Review financial issues with your parents at that point. Then, adjust your list based on your stats and an analysis of how your family's resources match up with the real cost of each of the schools. And if location is going to be an issue to you or your family, this will be the time to factor that in.

Good luck!

By Mini (Mini) on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 12:02 am: Edit

I agree with Carolyn.

Off the cuff, I think St. Olaf's meets every single one of your criteria.

(But to answer your question, from the ones I know about, which is about half your list, none of them meets all your criteria.)

By Innotof (Innotof) on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 01:15 am: Edit

Out of curiosity (not sarcasm! ) which specific criteria are consistently being inconsistent with the schools on my preliminary list? I can understand the UC's not being suitable for me--I was planning on taking them off the list anyway--but I'm one of those people who appreciates cold hard facts, the why's and the how's. In what type of school environment do you think I would thrive? Obviously, no school will have ALL of my criteria, but I do recognize the fact that the schools listed are dramatically different from each other, each having its own relative srengths and weaknesses as it concerns my criteria. Thanks for your input!

By Mini (Mini) on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 11:33 am: Edit

WHY do you think no schools will meet ALL your criteria? I already named one, and I expect there are quite a few others.

VERY few of the schools on your list have a "good number" of Christian organizations (unless by that you mean "one".)

Some of the schools on your list have lots of TAs, and many of the better ones have "weed-out" pre-med classes.

Few of the schools on your list will accept your APs, either for credit or for placement.

Some of them have heavy drinking and frat scenes.

Some of them have busy streets, some less safe surroundings, and some both.

Some of the schools on your list have cutthroat competition, especially for pre-meds.

As I said, from the ones I know, NONE of them meet ALL of your criteria, and I know there are schools that do.

By Enzom (Enzom) on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 11:45 am: Edit

If you want extensive undergrad research experience and few or no TAs,cross most if not all of the major research universities off your list. Go for a top LAC.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 01:22 pm: Edit

I agree with Enzom - the best bet for what you're looking for is an LAC. Doesn't have to be one of the "top" schools necessarily.

The reason I mentioned Hope is that it has a Christian affiliation AND is recognized as having one of the BEST undergraduate research science programs in the country. In fact, they received more National Science Foundation grants for undergrad summer research this year than any other school in the country - including all research universities. It's really an exceptional school for people who want to do hands on undergrad research.

Other, similar schools that you should look at:
University of San Diego (just built a new state of the art $50 million science laboratory building), Pepperdine (excellent biology program with strong undergrad focus), St. Olaf (already mentioned), possibly Earlham in Indiana and many others. In other words, broaden your search beyond research universities and you'll have a better chance of finding more of what you're seeking.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 01:31 pm: Edit

I agree with Enzom - the best bet for what you're looking for is an LAC. Doesn't have to be one of the "top" schools necessarily.

The reason I mentioned Hope is that it has a Christian affiliation AND is recognized as having one of the BEST undergraduate research science programs in the country. In fact, they received more National Science Foundation grants for undergrad summer research this year than any other school in the country - including all research universities. It's really an exceptional school for people who want to do hands on undergrad research. But don't take my word for it: here's an article from the Howard Huges Medical Institute: www.hhmi.org/BeyondBio101/smcoll.htm

This same article has some other descriptions on other undergrad science schools that you may find useful and interesting.


If you want to stay in Calif, I'd suggest you add the University of San Diego (the private school, not the UC!) and Pepperdine to your list. USD just opened a state-of-the art $50 million science research center that is focused on undergraduate education; Pepperdine has an excellent undergrad science program as well.

If you have your heart set on a large research institution, I'd recommend you look at the University of Wisconsin - Madison. They do a good job of making research opportunities available to undergrads.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 01:47 pm: Edit

By the way, I'll bite on describing why schools on your list aren't "matches" for what you're looking for. FIRST: A disclaimer: I am not saying any of these schools is "bad" just pointing out how they fall short of your stated "wants" as listed in your original post:

WHAT I WANT IN A COLLEGE
Russian/Slavic language/literature/culture major or minor
a biochem/molecular biology major (or a biology or chemistry major I can tailor to biochem)
undergraduate research opportunities in immunology and/or molecular biology
not a lot of TA's teaching introductory classes
nice campus without busy streets running through it
safe campus/surrounding area
a social scene not dominated by drinking/drugs/smoking/frats
relatively nice student housing which is guaranteed (or at least easy to get) for all four years
a good number of Christian student organizations
not a lot of (if any) cutthroat competition (i.e. in premed intro classes)
a registrar that accepts AP scores of 4 and 5 for credit
maybe a Great Books/intellectual history-type of major/minor/program/etc.
ethnic diversity

SCHOOLS I'M THINKING ABOUT
Neither St. Marys or Santa Clara has a particularly strong Science program - IF you want a Catholic school in California that does, go for USD. Also, Santa Clara has limited housing available after freshman year. St. Mary's has something of a drinking/party culture and language departments are limited at both schools.

Columbia University, Harvard University, Princeton, Yale, UCB, UCLA, Stanford - All great schools with lots of prestige but you'll face lots of TA's in science classes at all of these schools. While they are all research universities, it's also very competitive to line up undergrad research opportunities at these schools because the "best" research opportunities are often reserved for grad and doctoral students. You can work in a lab, yes, but you probably won't be doing any original research as an undergrad. And, you won't find more "cut throat" students at any other schools in the country than you will at the schools on this list, especially in the sciences. Again, as Reidmc noted, you have to decide which items on your list of "wants" are most important.

Occidental College
Pomona College

These are both good schools but not sure how many
"Christian" groups you'll find at either school.
Do a search on each schools web site to see what exists. Both schools do offer good undergrad research opportunities as well. Occidental is very ethinically diverse. The great thing about Pomona is the proximity of Harvey Mudd and the chance to take classes there - HM is strong in chemistry and has really ramped up its bio and biochem programs in the past few years.


UC Davis
UC San Diego
You'll still face large lectures and TAs for intro courses but these two schools tend to be somewhat less cut throat. Both offer a fair number of undergrad research opportunities but again you'll have to compete with more people to get them. UCSD has the advantage of being located in the heart of San Diego's Bio tech industry so it's a good place for internships. UCSD's affiliation with the Salk Institute also offers internship opportunities to undergrads. However, housing is very tight at UCSD - expect to move into an apartment after sophomore year.