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how prestigious would a joint ba in math and philosophy from oxford be? how would it rank compared to double majoring in those subjects, at say princeton or harvard? how about placement into graduate schools

By James on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 08:17 am: Edit

I wouldn't bother asking the people on here because most of them know nothing about the British system.

I'm English, studying in the US and I can tell you that Oxford University will be much more challenging than the Ivies. You would be very hard pushed to get a first class degree, most people come out with 1:2's and 2:1's.

Soi if you want a challenge that's where you should go. Do well and you are bound to get into any grad school you want!

Doing a combined degree wouldn't be like double majoring as it would still be the work load of one degree.

By Rachel on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 04:20 pm: Edit

I don't know that it would be 'much more challenging than the Ivies'. The program of study in most British universities is so specialised (i.e. narrowly focused on the subject being 'read') that it's really an entirely different experience. It almost seems easier, in a sense, because you can avoid areas of study in which you do not excel or which you find more difficult (there are no general/core requirements).
As far as prestige goes, a degree from Oxford will be well respected anywhere but, in my opinion, you'd get a better education at princeton or harvard.
(Oxbridge requirements seem to be considerably lower, however. When I applied to Cambridge, they made a big issue out of asking for 1300 on the SAT!)
Good luck in your decision!

By roller on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 05:31 pm: Edit

yeah Rachel i noticed that. for American applicants they seem to care a lot about test scores (SAT I, SAT II, APs)

By Etonian on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 08:09 pm: Edit

James,
How difficult is it to gain acceptance to a US uni from a British secondary school? I'm currently taking A-levels at Eton and would like to go Princeton or Harvard in a couple years.

By James on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 10:33 pm: Edit

Hey Etonian,

So long as you do well in your A-Levels you stand a really good chance. However sometimes Americans don't realize how hard A-LEVELS are. When I was in the 6th form, I was always told that A-LEVELS were harder than university because of the work load, and so far I would agree. Also most universities will give you adavnced standing for A-levels grade C or D and above.

Also Eton must be the most prestigous school in the world so that will help your chances. The down side is that you are competing with some of the best international applicants for 7% of the spots available at the top Uni's.

You need more than just good grades to get into the top schools. US schools really look for high level extra-curricular activities.

By James on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 10:41 pm: Edit

Rachel,

you are right that British degrees are a lot more focused. Also it's important to realise that British students have finished the equiv of core general ed at 16.

I chose to study in America because of the broader curriculum. For me it was definately the right thing to do because at the time I didn't have any idea what I wanted to study. It's not like you can just change majors half way through a British degree.

By Etonian on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 05:06 am: Edit

Thanks James

By Rachel on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 03:33 pm: Edit

I'm currently in the British system and don't know that I could be confident I had finished my 'gen. eds' by 16. I'm still encountering stuff (at 18) that some of my US high school friends met long before. To be fair, however, this does work both ways as my courses tend to go into a lot of detail in a few areas.

The limitations of the narrowly focused system here is what worries me as well (I've finally decided to pursue English after years of planning to study Theoretical Physics!). I think I've finally decided to reject Cambridge in favour of a US education (I'm just waiting for all hell to break loose when my current school gets the news - we don't get too many Oxbridge offers and they see it as my duty to accept).
Anyway...
Etonian, you should have no problems with applications to US institutions as long as you show the proper motivation. American universities tend to be particularly receptive to international students (a friend of my received a scholarship simply because she matriculated from a British school!). It might be advantageous to take the SAT just to see where you figure in to the average student profile. Don't worry if you original score is a little discouraging - it's a very different kind of test than you might be used to (I managed to pull my Verbal up to 800 on a second try so it's usually worthwhile). Good Luck!
Rachel

By Etonian on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - 05:58 pm: Edit

Thanks for the insight Rachel,
If I don't get into a US uni, I was planning on enrolling at Exeter and reapplying from the US. Hopefully, I won't need to do that. I recently took the SAT a couple months ago and scored a 1560. Hopefully I don't need to take anymore tests.

What american school are you going to? Personally, I want to attend Wharton business school but my parents will only let me go to Princeton or Harvard. Otherwise, I will have to go to Cambridge. Which isn't bad but the Atlantic Ocean would sure help keep my parents off my back =)

Cheers

By MegB on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 01:12 am: Edit

Heheh -- Rachel, I'm in the reverse situation. I was accepted by Harvard, but I'd rather go to Cambridge. My school hasn't had a Harvard acceptance in several years ago, and I'm counting my lucky stars that at least my college guidance counselor isn't pressuring me to go there. Where I end up next year remains to be seen, but I'm sure I'll get a good education wherever. Good luck with muddling through the American system and tests.

By Shelinda (Shelinda) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 04:28 am: Edit

James, you can't get a 1:2. It's either a first, a 2:1, 2:2 or third. (maybe something after that? not sure)

By Lysenko on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 10:40 am: Edit

I am a British student who has been accepted at Oxford (New college) to study Biological sciences and might be able to clarify some of the differeces between the Ivy's and Oxbridge degrees.

The Ivy league Unis have 4 year degree programmes and are focussed on 'broad liberal expansion' of ones academic horizons, by making the degrees as de-subject-centric (to varying degrees) as possible. Oxbridge on the other hand allows the student to specialise in a field, HOWEVER only to an extent. Sciences at Oxbridge for example are very broad based, the biological science course at Oxford will teach you zoology, genetics, data collection/manipulation + many other key disciplins, you can not study any one of those disciplins for a degree, you need to study them all to get a Bio degree. At Cambridge sciences run along even more broad lines, they have a natural sciences degree which you can use to study many disciplins from Biology, Chemistry and Physics up untill the diploma (second) year, then for the third year you can specialise.
I am using sciences as an example of the way in which degrees tend to be structured at Oxbridge, they may seem 'singular' and narrow to most Ivy students, but they are in fact very broad based and often are pyramid shaped (as in the case of NatSci at Cambridge). Where as at an Ivy you might be encouraged to take courses for credit that have little to do with your subject (simply learning for learnings sake) at Oxbridge there is nothing stopping you from sitting in on lectures on subjects that might be wholely unrelated to your degree (if time permits-although there will be no extra credit for this)

All in all I would have to say from experience that an Oxbridge education would be tough for many American scholars, this is why Oxbridge want APs for admissions purposes (something that not even Harvard strictly requires). In the case of Cambridge, they will be looking for 5 APs at grade 4/5 and a SAT I performance of around 1300ish, Oxford Usually requires 2 APs at grade 4/5, 3 SAT II tests in relevant subjects (675+) and a SAT I performance of around 1300ish. Dont let the seemingly 'low' SAT scores fool you, remember Oxbridge WANT APs which again are not something that is required by even the most selective Ivys, so Oxbridge won't put alot of stock in the SATs.

The whole point is, as people have already pointed out, is that at Oxbridge you can expect VERY short terms with onwards and upwards 30 hours a week work and you can expect an honours degree at the end of the three years, AND an honorary MA to boot (although I have heard that they might be stopping this soon, at Oxford at least) Even at Harvard you can expect a far more relaxed atmosphere with 4 years (unless you skip the first year) instead of the non optional 3 years at Oxbridge in which you can complete your 'Broad liberal arts/sciences' degree.

I am not biased against the Ivys, infact I made an application to Cornell university through the regular application cycle and won't expect to hear from them untill this April. I don't expect that I'll get in though (My SATs are not very impressive compared to some I have seen and my A levels were a shambles-I used my SATs to get into Oxford-along with AP predictions + my ECs arn't that exciting-unless you happen to like lecturing!) As for my essays well thats for them to decide isn't it! Quite frankly I'll be very suprised if a 'fat' envelope arrives in April. (interestingly the Oxford letter came in a 'smallish' letter)
I hope that my information will be of some use.

By Rachel on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 05:25 pm: Edit

Etonian - My first choice (don't laugh) is either the US Air Force or US Naval Academy. I really want to join the forces but Cambridge makes a decent back-up plan.
I think, to be honest, there's not too much between Oxbridge and the Ivy League as far as prestige goes - the real question is where you want to live and spend 3/4 years of your life.

By Quink (Quink) on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 09:23 am: Edit

My son is possibly interested in Oxbridge in the areas of classics, philosophy, and/or linguistics. He is kind of an Anglophile (for instance, he's playing Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady this spring). He will have 7-8 APs and 6-10 college courses completed by the time he graduates.

My question is: How would someone from the US go about selecting the colleges within the universities? How can we research the differences, determine which are best in his area of interest, rooming situations, activity interests emphasized,etc.? Are there any web sites or guidebooks that describe the individual colleges in a way that would allow him to discriminate? For example, he knows that Exeter is where Tolkein went and that they have a chorus - we have found tidbits here and there but no real substantive info.

Any info appreciated - thanks!

By Smith (Smith) on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 10:19 am: Edit

For Oxford and Cambridge, if you go to their website (probably www.oxford.ac.uk, or www.cambridge.ac.uk) you can request a prospectus.

By Sybil_Vain (Sybil_Vain) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 06:40 pm: Edit

Help!
I received an offer from oxford (which i think I can meet, although one can never be sure) and got accepted to Yale!(what should I do?)

I'm doing IB and I'm from greece.

I'm totally in favour of a not- too- focused educational programme but then i also know that in i go to oxford i'll be closer home & it's also less expensive! (i'm an EU resident so...)

What should I do?