Colleges for Musical Theater Major -Part 10





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Discus: College Search and Selection: March 2004 Archive: Colleges for Musical Theater Major -Part 10
By Doveofpeace (Doveofpeace) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 03:16 pm: Edit

Enjoy!

This thread follows Part 9
Moderator Trinity

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 03:42 pm: Edit

Cuts, level of dance offered, integration with academics, integration with general college population, quality of productions, who gets to be in the productions, opportunities for the students and graduates in the program, type of kids, instructors in the program, etc, etc. Have to visit to sort it out.

S just called me from Boston. Caught a ride with a family who is doing the Boston college rounds and barely got there in time for the info session. Runs into another family with son from same school as S, a pretty good friend and finds that they are looking at nearly the same schools. So the family adopts him-he'll be sharing the hotel room with friend instead of sleeping on the floor at a BU dorm and is going to dinner and theater with the family. I think they are a bit shocked that I let him just be dropped off in Boston. He was going to get a ride from still another family but now he'll be staying with friend and his family. He is a bit conflicted because I think he had some big plans out tonight with former classmates who are now at BU. Friend will join him but they will have to report back to hotel and a theater show is in the works, I believe.

Both S1 and D toured many colleges this way. I did not have the funds or the time to take them for a family tour though I did make an effort to make some visits with them. They got whatever rides they could from friends, acquaintances going to a city where they wanted to visit a college, stayed in the dorm with former students from their highschool or anyone they might know. The cost was only food and sometimes local transportation and a gift to any family who gave the kids a ride. I also have taken kids with us when we went looking.

We did buy an air ticket for S for his cross country tour next week but got it for $419. That is his birthday gift along with some cash to fund him. He will stay at dorms and he has already made arrangements at each stop. I had worried about local transportation from airport to college, then from school to another, but it has all worked itself out! I don't expect any more trips that require airfare unless he ends up auditioning at any of these schools. I think the rest are all within a 6 hour radius.

Funny, about the MT literature. I have a file 6-7 inches thick on Penn State. Some terrific stuff. CMU gave him nothing. And I have been on their mailing list for a while, and nothing from that. I have stuff from a lot of schools but none from that one. NYU was also skimpy on brochures and info and it took me the longest time to figure out the studio system. Had no idea how their theatre system was organized. The Steinhardt/Tisch situation had me greatly confused. This past year S explained it to me as he had several friends who got into either of those schools. This is all new stuff for me.

I don't think it is essential to visit all of the schools before auditioning but visits are a good way to get the kid's mind on the next step of his educational life. S had little interest in the college app process but he was really excited visiting colleges and he was delighted to see other people he knows or from his school in Boston. Apparently several more are visiting as well and they are all staying at the same hotel. It should be some party tonight! I guess Boston is a big scene for college kids. When I get down to my last kid, maybe I'll do a grand tour. I've been doing this in bits and pieces catching what I can.

By Alanz (Alanz) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 05:19 pm: Edit

Just a note: this thread is a continuation from Colleges for Musical Theater... Part 9

Can a moderator please put a pointer at the end of Part 9 that points here (Part 10), so the thread can more easily be followed by people new to the discussion?

Thanks in advance

By Dramaqueen22 (Dramaqueen22) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Well, I'm off tommorow to visit Syracuse and Ithaca. I am going on a theater tour of Ithaca and meeting with some people from the department, but Syracuse's theater is closed on Saturdays :( Hopefully I'll see enough of the campus to convince my mom that I'll be able to survive 6 weeks there this summer for their Musical Theater Program. Plus I figure I'll see enough of their theater then to skip a tour now. I'm going to be sure to ask a lot about Ithaca's dance component, and I will post any information I get here when I get back. Everyone keeps telling me their program is great, but I don't know if I could go if the dance is as weak as people keep saying. Anyway, I will be back on Sunday to report any interesting findings!

Amanda

One more interesting note: My grandmother recently saw the touring production of The Producers, and she sent me the program, since I've been searching through them seeing where people went to school. Not too many people listed their school. The five who did were not very diverse. There were 4 from CCM and one who had a BM from Catholic U. I believe. I just found that interesting, with all the talk about CCM on here. I'm not planning on applying there, but they really do have good placement.

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Following on with the current discussion of being "cut" from the CCM program. Being "cut" does not occur out of the blue. All CCM students are formally evaluated during each quarter to judge if they are progressing as desired by the faculty. There is a performance exam (known as a Board), given each quarter during the school year. The first two Boards in each year are essentially progress reports that are intended give the student feedback on those areas that may need additional work. Typically, only the Board given during the third quarter of the year is "make it or break it" exam. Therefore, unless there are extenuating circumstances it is highly unlikely that a student would be asked to leave the program without substantial warning that they were not making the desired progress.

In practice, it's really only during the freshman and to a lesser extent the sophomore year that students are "cut". Typically, by the time a person has reached the third year of the program they have made the grade and can reasonably expect to graduate. This is not to say that CCM accepts more students than they want to graduate and then uses the "cut" to trim down the class. In fact, CCM accepts exactly the number they hope to graduate (they do not take students knowing they will drop a certain number).

By Psucat (Psucat) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 07:32 pm: Edit

Hey Soozievt--
I do know Nina! I went to Michigan over spring break to visit my boyfriend, and hung out with all of the freshman. I actually trailed along with them to their classes, went to their student-run freshman showcase rehearsals, and even took their ballet class twice! Nina and I stuck together during ballet since she's new to ballet and, for me, it was a very different class than the one I'm used to at PSU! She is a GREAT singer and very sweet. Hopefully I will see her over the summer, if not, I will next year when I visit again!

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 07:57 pm: Edit

I think these programs which "cut" students have entirely the wrong philosophy. A college program should be, first and foremost, about educating and training its students. Through the application and audition process for admission, one would think that these professional educators would have a good idea about whom they choose to accept. It's doubtful that any student admitted to one of these programs is untrainable. I think that it appears that these programs and obviously those who run them, who undoubtedly have structured the programs this way, have misinterpreted their role. They are educators and their students are paying to be educated and trained. It's not like it's an acting company where these students are doing a job. They're there to learn. All students in every program across the country are evaluated on a regular basis. The difference at most programs is that, after the evaluation, the instructors/professors/teachers then work with the students on their areas of 'need' and formulate a plan in order to achieve their goals. I know that there are schools other than CCM who cut students, or require re-auditioning every year, but CCM is the one with the worst reputation in this regard, and has been for years. I think if you're willing to accept the possibility of being cut and go into the program with that knowledge, that's fine but I wouldn't recommend that to anyone, simply because at that point, then where do you go?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 08:17 pm: Edit

Psucat....that is funny you met her...small world. By the way, I had posted back and forth with your mom recently on another forum and it is weird to meet up with you guys on this one. When I read your first post today I realized it was your mom's daughter (YOU) posting! And I knew she said you visited your boyfriend at UMich's program over break.

My D's best friend from her summer program was out visiting UMich this past week and loved it. My D will be going to visit in the fall and maybe we can look your boyfriend up!

My D knows Nina quite well as she spent about four summers with her at a theater camp. My daughter is just fifteen though, so younger. Nina is a wonderful singer and actress. I do not know if she was much of a dancer prior to college though. I have seen her in various shows. My daughter was in a select cabaret troupe with her for four years, a very intensive musical theater performing group. I have seen Nina sing in that for years. If you talk to her again, first off if you simply said my daughter went to Stagedoor with her and is from Vermont, that would be enough. (plus your mom knows my D's name of course). But one major solo Nina had every summer, a coveted one in this production, was Brother Can You Spare a Dime. Her performance of t his song was riveting. This song often stops the show. When Nina left and then went to the summer program at Northwestern her final summer of her childhood, my daughter felt almost honored to follow in Nina's footsteps as she was the one selected to sing Brother Can You Spare a Dime in subsequent summers (this troupe performs at resort hotel nightclubs). So, tell her it is the girl who followed her with "Brother"! I am sure when we visit UMich, my D will be connecting with Nina. I know her friend just did when visiting last week.

Perhaps next fall, when we visit Penn State, we can connect with you. My niece who lives near your hometown is entering Penn State next fall (but not in theater) and my D can stay with her. By the way, my kids saw you years ago on stage in a particular show, though I never had the pleasure. Enjoy the rest of this year at PSU!

Susan

By Psucat (Psucat) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 08:48 pm: Edit

That's funny that you mentioned "Brother..." because my boyfriend, and people who know her here at PSU said that it was her "trademark" song! She sang it for the freshman in the beginning of the year supposedly and was great! I got a chance to hear her a little bit at rehearsals out there and we were talking about songs we love to belt! :o) We are both belt-lovers hehe. Nina's forte is not dancing, as she mentioned to me. We had a lot of fun in beginner's ballet together! (It was interesting to dance with my b/f!!) My mom and often read the same boards, and I encouraged her to post on here. It is so funny that you have been talking to her previously! My boyfriend would love to meet your D when she visits UMich, Ann Arbor is really neat. A totally different experience than Penn State. I was glad to return to my own campus :o) When she visits PSU, please contact me, I would be more than happy to meet up!!

By Dramaqueen22 (Dramaqueen22) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 08:52 pm: Edit

Emilyp114, I completely agree with everything you have said. I don't think I would want to be in a learning environment where I was worried about, essentially, being fired all the time. My drama and dance teachers at my high school are always telling us that this is the place to make mistakes and mess up, because if you don't take risks, you will never learn how far you can take a role, or yourself. I would almost like to visit these schools just to ask them what their philosophy is in teaching performing arts. I know I wouldn't be as willing to step outside my comfort zone in a class if I was worried that every semester would be my last. It would espeically be nerveracking freshman year, when you are already having to adjust to an entirely different living environment than you are used to. This is just my opinion, of course, but I know I would want to feel somewhat safe at a school.

Plus, these students are obviously talented if they got into CCM. How is it that they are so "hopeless" that they could not see even trying to train them further. Plus, these students probably got into other programs, and now they are left out in the cold. I know that sounds kind of harsh, and its probably not as bad as all that, but that is the mental picture I get. Its just a little scary after you have gone through an entire audition process and think that you have finally gotten in and are secure in where your future is going. (I don't want to sound like I'm bashing CCM or their program. I know it is a fabulous school. That aspect of it just really scares me.)

Well, I think I've rambled enough. I have to get up early for my 8 hour drive to New York!

Amanda

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 09:02 pm: Edit

Hi everyone!

I've been out of town since Sunday morning and just got back this evening and am amazed at the number of posts since I left. I haven't had time to read them all in depth, but I did skim the posts and feel compelled to write to lend my support to Idontknow who has been so kind and helpful to my daughter and me over the last year, especially with words of support when my daughter was at CMU this past summer.

Idontknow,

I remember how happy you were to be accepted to CCM and cannot imagine what a difficult time this must be for you. I can only reiterate what a class act you are. To even share this information with us in hopes that we might benefit from your experience is selfless beyond words. You are clearly an enormously talented young woman or you would not have been accepted in the first place. Coupled with the integrity you have shown and your positive attitude, I think I speak for all of us when I say that I am sure a successful career awaits you. CCM was just not the right long term fit for you. You have enough wisdom to accept the positives from this experience and move on. We all know how important and just how hard it is for a performer to be able to stay "in the moment." You clearly have been able to do this and look forward to all the good things the future holds for you. I wish you only happiness and success. You deserve it!!

Mtdad,

From your previous post:
"This is not to say that CCM accepts more students than they want to graduate and then uses the "cut" to trim down the class. In fact, CCM accepts exactly the number they hope to graduate (they do not take students knowing they will drop a certain number)."

I will quote the Director of Admissions at the CCM audition we attended on January 18:

"We are looking to accept enough students to have a freshman class of 22-24 but we expect to graduate no more than 15 of those students."

Do you really think he meant that 7 - 9 students would drop out of their own volition? I don't think you have a cut policy if you don't expect to cut anyone. I'd be interested in your further thoughts on the subject and what you think they expect a student like Idontknow to do now - and do you really think that they care?

By Djr (Djr) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 09:29 pm: Edit

Dancersmom,

Thanks for the recent comments about Baldwin-Wallace and about the CMU voice program -- especailly examples of someone who studied opera and is succeeding in musical theater. I am not surprised to hear that person is in Phantom; Webber works call for more classically trained singers.

Mtaddict,

We've learned through my daughter's pursuit of MT programs that academics matter a lot when it comes to merit awards. The College Conservatory of Music (Cincinnati) and Emerson have both awarded academic scholarships alreeady to her; we're waiting to hear about talent scholarships. Baldwin-Wallace and Otterbein give a lot of merit award based on academics, as well. As you probably know, U of M won't offer an audition until an academic review is completed. On the far end of the spectrum is CMU, which bases 85% of the admission decision on the audition. So, you should think seriously about how you can find some course work in high school to excel at, in addition to getting all the MT exposure that you can. Sorry if I sound like a parent.

Alanz,

Thanks for your encouragement to trust May to arrive. How is Scott's experience with the vocal training at Emerson? It's the area that worries us most about that program.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 09:55 pm: Edit

Idontknow, somehow missed your post--scrolled too quickly. I want to give you a big hug. Please share your experiences if you wish. Don't if it is not the right time. I am thinking about you and wish you the best. With your attitude and outlook, I feel that you will come up with the best venue for yourself. God bless.

By Wct (Wct) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:14 pm: Edit

Regarding CCM and the "cut"-

My heart has been aching since Idontknow's post.

I usually rely on my gut feelings. The "cut" has never felt right to me. They also do this at another BFA program that I am aware of. I have been doing musical theater/club work for 30 years. I teach MT related classes also. A few years ago I was in a CLO production with two very talented, hard working triple threats who had been recently "cut" from their BFA program. To this day I have never understood it.

At the CMU Parent's Weekend this past Fall there was a discussion with the Drama staff about the "cut". CMU stopped this practice several years ago. If you visit there, ask the staff why they stopped the practice. You will appreciate what you hear.


Students need to feel that they can take risks. Especially in this field. Some students take longer than others to develop their craft. If students are being cut because they do not have the work ethic I could understand that, but not because they hadn't "grown as an artist" in a 6 month period. That is my opinion.

I personally feel it is not right to let someone go who you accepted as being talented enough to get into the program in the first place. As long as the student is willing to do the hard work that it takes to complete a BFA. This is not a theater company, it is an educational institution.

The thing that really bothered me is that you make a commitment, financial and emotional, to the program. The program can then cut you. Most BFA programs will not take transfers. You have been cut, I assume, without the ability to audition for other programs because the audition process has ended for that upcoming year.

Idontknow-
You sound to me like a wonderful person. I am sure you did learn a great deal over the last few months. Take what you have learned and go somewhere where you can continue to grow and challenge yourself. This is a tough business and you have dealt with your CCM experience with true courage. I look forward to hearing about all the good things that are waiting for you just around the corner. You go girl!!!!!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:43 pm: Edit

I know I posted earlier this evening about IDontknow and her situation also really concerns me. I know she will move forward and accomplish great things. Just to have gotten into CCM means she has what it takes. Again, work ethic is one thing but a performance review is ok if it is like an improvement/growth thing ,not a cut from the program. What do these kids do then? I mean they likely did get into other programs originally so now they are out?

While someone posted what the statement was at the auditions regarding them expecting much fewer to graduate.....it does seem like they plan on cutting, not having kids drop out. I had heard from someone else that they take more than the plan on keeping. The thing is...the program is highly rated and seems to be very good. This one aspect I wish we knew more about however.

PSUCAT....that is funny that Nina still sings that song. She is excellent at it. My daughter was thrilled to carry on that spot in the show in the following summers. It seems to be a song that is so moving that the show comes to a brief stop when it ends. Like N. and you, my daughter's forte also is belting. When we see Nina, we will have to tell her that in the second session of last summer, the director (she knows that the director of this cabaret cast who had been there for 25 years left so a different director took over and made some changes to the production)...well he decided that the tone of Brother just did not fit what is otherwise a very upbeat production. So, he chose to replace the song. First my daughter told me she was devastated cause she had sung Brother for four different cast productions and like I said, it was a big deal to follow in Nina's footsteps. But then she was quite fine cause the director replaced the song with a song that had been in the show in the past and but not consistently every summer but had been sung by one of the best people in the program who then went onto Cap 21 at NYU/Tisch...the song is Carousel which is from Jacques Brel is Alive and Well and my daughter was thrilled once more to be given a chance to follow in the steps of another great performer who they had sing this song in the past. It is a very challenging song that ends up going very fast by song's end. So, while we gotta tell Nina sometime that Brother is out of the show, I hope my daughter can either follow in her footsteps to get into UMich or the other girl's footsteps to get into Tisch! LOL

Susan

By Allthatjazz70 (Allthatjazz70) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Hey!
I have been a long time reader and finally deceided to start posting, hehehe.

I wanted to know if anyone auditioned for Marymount Manhatten and if they heard anything yet?

Thanks!

-Jen-

By Shauna (Shauna) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:51 pm: Edit

Idontknow--

I'm so sorry to hear about CCM. You seem like a great person and I know that you will make it through. *huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuug*

Shauna

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:56 pm: Edit

I don't believe a MT program should be permitted to cut without extreme cause without giving the student an oportunity to audition elsewhere. By extreme cause, I mean kids who have basically quit coming to class, quit doing the work and/or are destructive to others in the program in behaviour and remarks. That sort of behaviour can be reprimanded and the student told that it will not be tolerated. But to just cut someone because you do not believe they belong in a program at a time when they cannot possibly audition for another spot costs them a year. If someone is not up to a school's standard at this point in time, they should be put on probation and told to audition for other programs the following year even as they continue to work it out in the current program. That way there is no time lost. If the student is truly not placeable, then he may not belong in a MT program and should consider alternatives or find a way to break down the program into more digestible components, focusing on problem areas. Actually a summer workshop on an underdeveloped area can do wonders.

Sometimes a school or program is not the right place for a student. But unless the student is an acute disruptor, there should be a way to ease him out and place him somewhere that is a better fit rather than just cut him and go on. I do hope I am missing something about the CCM cut policy, because it sounds awfully cruel to me.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 11:30 pm: Edit

My D has a friend/castmate who auditioned for Marymount Manhatten and I do not think he has heard yet. Another friend from school/dance is auditioning there this weekend but for dance.
Susan

By Laurenz (Laurenz) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 12:26 am: Edit

Dir,

Scott's vocal training at Emerson has been excellent. His first freshman semester he had private voice, ensemble voice and chorus. There is a strong emphasis on voice, as well as on acting and movement. It is a very hoslitic approach. Dance emphasis does not start until sophomore year, but he is taking private dance lessons with his friends. He says the improvement has been remarkable. And I think his voice was wonderful before he started all this.

There is also a major emphasis on producing "smart actors", so classes outside the MT curriculum expose him to new information, ideas and concepts, and get him to more thoroughly explore the world. Last week they were visited by Edward Albee who spoke with the students about the state of theater in America today. There are master classes and exciting visitors all the time. The students are very eager to take advantage of these wonderful opportunities.

Emerson has proven to be the perfect school for Scott. Students need to visit campuses and trust their instincts to find the right fit.

By Inkyblb (Inkyblb) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 01:25 am: Edit

Soozivet -

Absolutely no problem! I thought it might be a simialar site to this one - and I'm always looking for any information I can get regarding this whole process. Thanks for responding!

By Brownalum (Brownalum) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 04:26 am: Edit

Yale is actually your best bet for theater (of any kind).

By Monkey (Monkey) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 07:58 am: Edit

I am hoping to find someone who might know students who were involved with the acting internship at the Utah Shakespearean Festival. My daughter just received a paid acting internship for this coming summer. She had the opportunity to apply by being a previous ARTS scholarship recipient in Theatre. It appears to be a very special opportunity, especially for a current freshman in musical theatre. She will have a role in The Winter's Tale as well as perform in a pre-show 6 nights a week. They will pay her $3,200 as well as give her a chance to earn additional money by assisting with outreach classes and workshops. ARTS also covers all travel expenses and housing as well as providing insurance and an additional stipend. It is a three month program which starts the day after finals and will mean she'll need to miss the first week of fall classes. She is a bit concerned about that but the director of her program assured her it could be worked out with the university.
If anyone on this board has any specific info to share regarding this program I'd really appericate hearing from you. There will be one other intern as well but my daughter hasn't received any info about her. We are all pretty amazed that she was selected as it was a national search, and I know it will be an incredible experience for her in so many ways. I am pretty sure she will be the youngest player in the company at 18 ( turning 19 in June ) but I imagine she will be busy enough not to mind the change in her social life.
Again, any info to share would be appreciated.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 08:30 am: Edit

I know there are a lot of analytical people on this board...has anyone made a list of all the schools we talk about here and their cut policy? I know now that CCM is on one end of the spectrum and CMU on the other end, but what about Ithaca? Syracuse? Emerson? Baldwin Wallace? Otterbein? etc etc. I guess I'll try to make such a list if noone else has. If you know what the policy is at any particular school (from talking to dept people at that school), chime in please!

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 08:35 am: Edit

Monkey,

A girl from my h/s worked at the USF two summers ago. They aren't really internships, so much, as a real job. They usually hire about 75 actors for each season because they have only a small number of full-time 'employees'. It's a repertory company so the actors are expected, and hired by audition, to play more than one role, as is the nature of such companies. Depending on their experience, they are paid accordingly. Your daughter's amount sounds approximately what the girl I know was paid. All actors' travel expenses and living expenses are paid for the season. From what I know, the girl from my school had a great summer there. I think the biggest problem was socially because there weren't many who were near her in age and the older actors tended to spend a lot of time together. And yes, you're right, I remember her being concerned about the end of the season causing difficulty in her getting to school in September. I don't remember what the outcome of that was but I know it was a problem with her college program. They make everyone stay til the end because everyone is involved in strike for the end of the run. Do you know if the internship is something different than her just getting a job with the company? Did she audition? It might be different if they've told her that she has a role only in one show. I'm not sure. It sounds like a great opportunity, though, for her. What a wonderful way to spend a summer!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 09:19 am: Edit

Brownalum...this thread deals mostly with musical theater. Yale is renowned mostly for its graduate program in Drama. You can study theater there as an undergraduate but not musical theater. However, they have many opportunities through various groups on campus to perform in musicals. I know kids going to Yale who do theater.

They do not have a conservatory type program as an undergraduate and they surely do not have a musical theater program. For someone pursuing Drama, going to Yale for graduate school is certainly one of the best.

Most on this forum are pursuing musical theater programs, which Yale is not. A kid interested in musical theater (as one very talented girl we know at Yale is), you can go to Yale, study theater and do some of the musicals on campus but you could not take courses in musical theater.
_______________________________________
Monkey, congrats to your daughter for getting that summer acting job/internship! I think for college theater students to be able to get into summer stock or other summer theater things, like your daughter, is just ideal....gain experience, plus build the resume. Good for her and I hope she enjoys every minute of it. I read that your daughter was an ARTS winner in theater. I have gotten info. online about that scholarship / talent search and I think my daughter will choose to pursue entering it.

Susan

By Gadad (Gadad) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 09:35 am: Edit

Brownalum - What do you know about Theatre at Yale (or Brown too, for that matter)? Yale sends a fair number on to Broadway, in musical as well as straight theatre, though their degree is a BA, not a BFA. What do those who aspire to musical theatre do to prepare at Yale? Do they combine the theatre degree with a voice minor or pursue private coaching in voice and dance?

By Monkey (Monkey) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 11:13 am: Edit

Emily,
The internship my daughter received was through the ARTS organization; not the same as being hired directly by the Utah Shakespeare Festival. It was by audition ( 2 classical and 1 contemporary monologue plus a song ) My understanding is that ARTS awards two acting interships a summer and all expenses as well as a salary are included. When offered the position she was told she was already cast in a small role in The Winter's Tale as well as the pre-show ( 40 minute production of singing, dancing, warming up the audience each evening.
She is a little concerned that she won't have a peer group to mingle with socially. I am hoping there will be enough interesting and challenging things to be involved with that the social part won't matter as much. I know she recognizes how fortunate she is to have this amazing opportunity to perform and work and learn among veteran actors. It is also a good chance to be immersed in classical work; very different focus than the MT program she is in at school.

Susan,
The ARTS organization offers tremendous opportunities for young performers. I really recommend having any serious artist apply. Not only is substantial money awarded, but they continue to make available continuing opportunities for performing like the acting internship mentioned above.

By Baymom (Baymom) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 11:20 am: Edit

I have read all 10 threads in this topic - whew! It has been so eye-opening and enlightening. So many of you parents seem excited and confident of your child's choice to pursue MT. But I'm still leery of the whole thing even though my S is absolutely dying to pursue MT in college. He is a junior, been acting since age 8. We have a fabulous Theatre Academy here in Milwaukee and he was a student there summers and weekends for seven years. He was in several professional shows - musicals and plays (including the juvenile lead in the world premiere of Robert Schenkkan's new play for children). Has already done many shows in high school with great parts (our high school has an incredible theatre program - lots of awards and kids going on to great programs. We did Ragtime last year and our Coalhouse is now at Syracuse) He did a little commercial work too. But he's also a "regular kid." He plays varsity baseball, gets good (B+/A-) grades, makes films as a hobby and is drummer for a successful garage band. He's really creative and I know he has to go into a profession that allows him to express that creativity but I am scared stiff of him limiting his opportunities with an MT degree. Even he knows how hard the actor's life is having worked with professionals since he was so young (never knowing when you will be working again, insurance, etc.). But he is so passionate about theater and he, like all of your kids, just glows on the stage - like he was born to be there. He's a true triple threat - beautiful strong tenor voice, creative actor, even with accents and character roles, and a super dancer even though he hasn't had a lot of formal training (just finished as dance captain in Footloose which had incredibly difficult choreography.) So what do we do? My husband and I are just agonizing over this and I believe this site was heaven sent! You all are a real community here and I so appreciate all of your words of wisdom for those of us who haven't made the leap in our comfort zones yet.

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 11:44 am: Edit

Idontknow is showing a maturity in both appraising and acccepting her CCM experience that makes me feel very good about her future. From her clear headed description of her experience it is evident that she both understood and accepted the program at CCM. It must be kept in mind that CCM and the other institutions that practice a "cut" policy are conservatories not colleges. Yes, they may exist within a college setting but in fact they only give lip service to the ideals of education. Their sole function is to take highly talented and motivated kids who are already trained performers and push, prod, and polish their skills to the point where they can earn a full-time living on the New York stage. In addition, they will protect the reputation of their program by striving to only graduate those actors who seem reasonably assured of success and who in turn will reflect well on the program. The question becomes not one of fairness but of whether or not such a program truly suits the individual young performer. I'd say for most 17 and 18 year-olds CCM and the other rigorous conservatory programs are not the right choice. But, for a limited few the results speak for themselves.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 11:46 am: Edit

Welcome to this world of MT. There are many of us embarking on the journey next year. My son is also a tenor with strong classical music training, lots of drama experience and dance. He is looking at programs in Boston as I write.

I feel that the four years of college that these kids have are really a time and place for them to find themselves and their interests. My son wants to spend the time studying theatre so it is fine with us. No sense in sending him off to study something he does not want to pursue at this point. I am looking more at schools with options in the academics as well because I am still leery of the conservatory for him though he is looking at a few of those as well.

What is scary is how difficult it is to get into these programs. The numbers are much lower than the most selective schools. I am looking for some alternate schools that have good drama departments, theatre facilities, music programs and drama clubs that can serve as safeties as there really are not any safeties in the pure MT programs. And with the time it takes to audition he can apply to only a limited number of schools.

As for limiting opportunities, I was sure my older son who is graduating this year from college was going to have to do another two years before finding a job. Not much out there for anyone and English majors are a dime a dozen. We thought he could go to a state school to get his teaching certification and combine coaching with teaching as a profession. I did not bother feeding expectations of a self supporting job after college since I have seen so few of those. Well, he has a job offer and though the pay is on the low side, the company is solid, the opportunities are good and the job has full benefits.

I expect if S2 graduates in the drama/MT fields, he will find someting in the music, theatre , entertainment industry. The trick will be steady enough work and benefits, health insurance in particular. We suggest starting a slush fund for that because it does not happen with piece meal work and is terribly expensive on an independent basis. If it is not for him, he can go back to school for a few years for teaching or some other certificate program. I have gone through this with a lot of kids both in and out of our family who end up out of college with no job. I think it is wonderful to be able to help a child give it a try for their dreams even when the odds are not good.

Well, you've made a great start reading this thread, all 10 parts. I suggest getting Son involved in putting a list together of schools that have this major and start asking for infor about the programs, visiting them if possible. Look at the audition requirements and start getting a few monologues and vocal selections in your son's pocket along with an accompanyment tape for all the pieces he may want to sing for audition. I also suggest having two original of each audition piece. The audition committee may want to look at one or the accompanyist and you may not want to hand over your dirty ragged personal copy with all the notes and marks on it (I know my son would not want to--his are falling apart but he does not want fresh copies for his use--years of notes in some cases) And making copies is sometimes very much frowned upon though I feel it is perfectly legal for personal use. Better to just buy two copies if you can. It is a drop in the bucket of expenses on the horizon.

My kids all did a lot of their college visits pooling with other kids going to the same city and contacting former school mates now at a school. For example, my son got a ride up to Boston with a family and then went off to look at schools on his list. He was going to stay with an kid who goes to BU from his highschool--just plop on the dorm floor but met up with a family he knows at the Emerson college info session who insisted he share the hotel room with their son who is also looking at BU. He will be getting a ride home with them tonight instead of with a someone from BC who is coming home for the weekend. The cost for us for this trip was very low--I'll have to send a note and gift to the family who took him in and for the ride. But the only cash outlay was for cheap food and local transportation which he did not end up needing. His brother and sister did this during their college searches too and I would take other kids with me when I visited a school. It costs enough without piling it on with visits.

Good luck to your son and to you. Hope you post here and share your experiences. I joined this forum because of the MT thread. Again, welcome.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 11:52 am: Edit

Laurenz, S just visited Emerson and loved it. A definite on his list. Have only spoken very briefly to him but the enthusiasm is unmistakeable. Wish I had contacted you about getting S to say hi to Scott but was too busy juggling 50,000 other things. Am just glad I have him out looking at programs during break.

Your posts from last year have been so helpful to us and so I want to thank you again. Please, please, comment and opine as things come up for us as we run this gauntlet (and try to have run as we do it).

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 12:20 pm: Edit

Baymom, welcome to this message board. It is full of incredible "inside" info. that would be hard to find elsewhere or all in one place!

I do not have an answer for you as to what your son should pursue. As I have a daughter going for musical theater, I can only say what we have done. I am into kids pursuing their dreams and interests whether those things sound like they would earn money or get a job or whatever. I say go for what you love. It will work out in the end. Like your son, my D is so passionate about theater and has been since she was a preschooler! I cannot imagine squashing that dream or drive. Uh, she would not let us get in her way even IF we chose to try.....gotta know this kid to know what I mean.

As Jamimom said, if your child pursues a MT degree, he will have a college degree for one thing. Even IF he does not make it as a performer, that does not mean it was for naught. There are many careers he could pursue with this training. For instance, I can readily see my daughter directing or choreographing as she has dabbled in that quite a bit and is well suited for it. Her aspirations for now are the stage. I cannot see not letting her go after it.

However, I FULLY understand where you are coming from. For some parents, it makes them nervous to see a child going this route. Indeed it is an unsure thing. For starters, just getting into programs with 5% admit rates seems daunting. Then the career of an actor is never steady...always job hunting basically. Not many make it either.

So, one alternative that some might pursue (likely an alternative for your child but HE would have to be happy going this route) would be to major in theater in a liberal arts setting. I know MANY kids who have gone this route. For example, say at Brown. This won't be the same professional type preparation in a conservatory or BFA program but still is quite worthy. A boy I know with a lot of experience and talent....and is a junior, is in the college search process and seems to be going this route (talked to his mom and I can tell the parents prefer this more well rounded education). They were recently up here in my state visiting Middlebury. I know kids doing this at Conn College, Brown, Tufts, Yale, Skidmore, Vassar, and so forth. Perhaps you can visit both BFA programs in musical theater and BA theater majors in liberal arts settings and go from there.

keep posting!
Susan

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 12:33 pm: Edit

Mtdad,

I agree that Idontknow is showing incredible maturity about her situation, at least here on the forum. It's obvious, though, that she must be devastated by her circumstances, regardless of how valuable her last six months were at CCM. While some other conservatory programs might employ a 'cut' policy, none, that I'm aware of, is enacted the way CCM's is, where it's possible to be asked to leave after the third quarter. Even Boston Conservatory guarantees that it won't happen prior to the end of your second year there.

I think it's cruel the way CCM does it because, not only is it devastating to the self-esteem and confidence of the student (regardless of when it happens), it gives the impression that even after a short time, the school feels that they made a mistake in accepting you. That they're not willing to give you the opportunity to prove yourself for even a full year is not right. I realize they clearly state that they accept more than they'll keep but it doesn't seem to me that, even financially for the school, it's worth asking people to leave before completing one year.

The difficulty the student then has is unbelievable. Where do they go from here? Transfers into to other programs are extremely difficult at the best of times. How likely is a school to be willing to accept a transfer for someone who's been cut from another program? Not only that, but most colleges will not accept transfers of any kind unless they've had a full year at their previous college, with a minimum number of hours completed. I know kids who have been in this horrible position and it's no fun.

Not all conservatory programs are like this, and not all only pay 'lip service' to the ideals of education. Tisch and CMU are the obvious ones which come to mind. Of the five individuals I know who attended CCM, none has very good things to say about it. Two graduated, one left to be in a show and never returned and the other two were cut. I realize this is anecdotal but I know from similar stories from friends here at Tisch of people they know who've gone there, that it isn't unusual that people feel this way. I think the training may be great for some people but it's training that can be found elsewhere without the cut policy and the possibility of that messing up your plan for college.

One last comment. You said that it prepares kids for earning a "full-time living on the New York stage". This made me smile. No one earns a full-time living on the New York stage. Or on any other stage, for that matter. It's not the nature of the business. :)

By Baymom (Baymom) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 02:58 pm: Edit

Thanks Jamimom and Soozie - already more great tips and it's only a couple of hours since I first posted! The idea of the "slush fund" is awesome - never would have thought of it and now is a great time for us to do that. The education idea is also good food for thought. S loves working with kids and will be able to teach at the Theatre Academy next summer so he will have a good taste of that - he's really good with and loves kids so that's a good option. I think we will investigate all theatre options. I'm most leery of the conservatory programs with absolutely no "academic" courses but I think you're all correct when you say you have to look into everything, see what options you have and then make the best personal decision for and with your child. I would doubt S would get into the real competitive ones anyway - but he needs to be able to say he tried! One more question - most of the programs talked about here are in the east. How would a midwestern boy fare in one of these schools? I know kids come from all over but I dare say many are from the east. We've been to NYC many times and love it but it is very different from the midwest! S is already young in his class - (though not as young as your daughter will be Soozie - what a go-getter! She sounds like she will be one we'll see on those marquees in shining lghts!) and I worry a bit about culture shock should he decide to go east.

By Keggo (Keggo) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Hi,

I'm new to this, but I have been previewing messages from the past couple of days. And I have to say that I have a lot of respect for you, "Idontknow"!! (I'm still in High School but I'm planning to go into musical theatre. I would really like to attend a conservatory like Boston U. or CCM.) It says a lot in the first place that you actually made it into CCM, and that you came out with such a positive mindset. And what I think is the best is that you are able to think on the positive experiences that you had there, instead of bashing the school (as you could very easily and fairly do) for having cut you. I just want to tell you that you are AWESOME, and don't EVER let your passion for theatre die!

I wish you all the best.

Keggo

By Katiem (Katiem) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 04:23 pm: Edit

I just got my letter from University of Michigan. I was put on the small waitlist where on average they accept 2-5 applicants per year from this list. It just kills me that this is just the beginning of another waiting period. This means that I have to commit to another school (CCM) with Michigan in the back of my mind. At the information meeting they promted the students to visit if they've been accpeted or are on the waitlist. I don't know what I should do.
-Katie

By Mike_Maj (Mike_Maj) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Hi, I've been watching this board for a little while and I'm finally going to post, woo hoo! Well, I am a freshman this year in college, I applied to a few schools last year and auditioned but I wasn't prepared and was not accepted. I was going to go to Cincy as an undecided major but due to a family illness I chose to stay close to home and be with my family. It made it very hard this year because I missed many schools application deadlines due to being mostly concerned with my family member's health. I applied to Otterbein for musical theatre and I auditioned on March 6th. They were extremely understanding of my situation and have been very good to deal with. I just got off the phone with them and I was told I was not accepted into the musical theatre program (there are only 2 transfer student openings...) but that the school of music is making me an offer, I do not know which program as of yet but the woman I spoke to on the phone hinted at vocal performance.

For those that are interested in Otterbein, it was a great audition. The staff and students were all extremely helpful and nice. The hard part of their program is that they accept 16 people into the theatre program overall. 8 into Theatre, 8 into musical theatre which translates into 4 guys and 4 girls in each program. I think they have a great program and the students all seem extremely talented. Idontknow, I am so sorry about your dismissal from CCM, I freqently speak to a current student (do you know Katie Klaus?) and she has told me that it is a very tough program. I was just wondering, are they letting your finish out your freshman year? Good luck with your future endeavors!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 05:12 pm: Edit

Katie....I think making the waitlist may not have been the outcome you were looking for at UMich but it is a mighty fine accomplishment and you are not out yet. If you are realistic about the odds, you will not count on it but you still have a chance. I do not know how many are on the waitlist and maybe you can find out and gear your thoughts better. Do let them know you would attend if accepted. Stay in touch in writing with them. But the fact that you have CCM in your corner as well is still a good situation (I do not recall where else you got in if any). You are at least in a winning situation. I hope UMich comes through but am happy for you that at least you are in at another fine program.

The more I learn of UMich, the more interesting it sounds. My D's best friend from summer program just got back from visiting there (and CCM and CMU) and raved about UMich.

Baymom, I really think kids come from all over to these programs. For instance, my D has friends at NYU Tisch from Boston, Tennessee, Florida, and NY/NJ/PA. You have to think about how far your son wants to go. My kids prefer to stay in the east. However, with musical theater programs, you almost gotta go where they are. So, CMU, CCM, and UMich are not on the east coast but they are still on the list. She just will not look into CA or FL and such. Location does factor in. I mean my D does say that Cinci and Pittsburgh do not thrill her as locations. NYC, Boston, and even Ann Arbor appeal more to her. But as far as midwest...there is CCM, UMich, Otterbein, and well CMU is not that far east either. You may want to look into Oklahoma City for musical theater.

You mention not wanting strictly conservatory. Please be aware that some programs have an academic component more than others, yet still have a conservatory program within a university setting. For instance, NYU and UMich come to mind in that regard. Have fun researching. We can all continue this journey into next year.

Susan

By Psucat (Psucat) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 07:10 pm: Edit

Katiem-
I was talking to my boyfriend last night (who is a freshman Musical Theatre major at UMICH) and he said 4 or 5 people from the freshman class were admitted off the waitlist. Therefore, you definately still have a good chance. I think it's worth it to put yourself on the list if you are still leaning towards UMich. All you can do is hope for the best :o)

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 07:43 pm: Edit

Katie,

Not to be discouraging because you obviously still have a real chance to be admitted to UM, but I know for a fact that UM ACCEPTED 30 kids last year, hoping for their "normal" class of 20 freshman and got a huge surprise when 29 of the 30 accepted students decided to attend UM. So I'm not sure about the info that Psucat's boyfriend provided. True to form (they are a very upbeat, positive bunch), UM calls this year's extra large freshman class an "embarrassment of riches" - they say they are thrilled to have so many talented kids in the program. However, it seems logical that all the deferring and waitlisting that is going on there this year is to prevent what happened last year from happening again. Larger than average classes really strain the resources of a program that is normally configured for a smaller number of students.

Again, this DOES NOT mean you won't make it in off the waitlist - they obviously can see that you have the talent or they wouldn't hold out the possibility of accepting you. It's an indication of just how much they really are interested in you that they HAVE a waitlist. Remember, they have utilized a rolling admissions system. It just becomes a numbers game as they wait to see how many students they have already accepted decide to commit to them. And most likely, they won't know that until the other acceptance letters go out and kids know what their real options are.

Don't give up hope. I know you are also really interested in CMU but if UM is REALLY your first choice, write to them (to Laura Strozeski and Brent Wagner) and tell them that. They were very clear that knowing your intentions is very important. They are more likely to pluck the person off the waiting list who really wants to be there.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you! We have a mutual friend at OCHSA (whose initials are WT) who tells me you are very talented and I'd love for you to be at Michigan with my daughter next fall. Keep us posted!!

PS - All of you juniors out there, keep in mind that the programs that utilize rolling admissions, UM and PSU to name two, do accept kids as they audition them and their files are complete. So waiting to audition later in the audition season at programs like these, may decrease your chances of getting that "happy" letter. Remember that as you plan where and when you will audition next year. Logistics DO matter!

By Djr (Djr) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 08:34 pm: Edit

Laurenz

Thanks for the information about vocal training in the MT program at Emerson. It's reassuring. Since there is no school of music at Emerson, we've been concerned about the quality of voice training. In addition, some earlier posts were disbaraging about the singing in some Emerson productions. In terms of visiting the school, my daughter has been there twice and does 'feel' she would fit.

Today my daughter actually learned, in an unexpected and round-about way, that Emerson admitted her, although official notification won't be mailed until April 1 or shortly thereafter. It'd be great if she could connect with Scott via email in April.

Katie

More encouragement to hang in on U of Michigan: my daughter's admission to MT has been 'deferred.' We called to learn if that status would negatively impact any forthcoming financial aid decisions and were told no. That should be good for you to know. We also learned that 'deferred' and 'waitlisted' are two different status; we had been using the words interchangeably. Deferred students will learn by April 1 whether they are accepted, rejected, or waitlisted. Waitlisted students won't know until June 1 about acceptance. If you are, in fact, waitlisted, that does present a challenge since most schools expect a decision by May 1 -- but they must have some way of dealing with situations like yours.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 08:49 pm: Edit

djr...congrats to your daughter....she has many great options for next year. Choices! What a great thing in this big world of MT! Congrats!

By Brownalum (Brownalum) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 08:52 pm: Edit

SoozieVT wrote:

"Yale is renowned mostly for its graduate program in Drama."

Think again. Yale also has the top graduate opera program in the country. And we're talking about undergraduates here. I stand by my earlier statement on that.

Anyways, we're all entitled to our opinions - I just call the shots as I see them. If you think I'm not familiar with Broadway, think again. I've lived with several well-known Broadway producers and art directors.

Good luck.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 08:55 pm: Edit

Waitlisted kids should send their deposit and acceptance to a school that has accepted them. They will lose the deposit but that is really the only reasonable solution. Have not heard of a school that will let YOU defer THEM!

By Psucat (Psucat) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 09:10 pm: Edit

Theatermom:
UMich's freshman class is large, but he knows for a fact at least two of the kids that were off the waitlist (he is good friends with them) Just thought I'd clarify :o) It will be interesting to see how large their class is for '08!

By Nickdad (Nickdad) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 09:11 pm: Edit

I was reading with great interest the posts about universities with cut programs and remember when I posted about this back last summer and got slammed for my position.

I think a college exisits to train..to see the potential in a students...not the finished product. For a university to at first say "You are great, we want you"..then a year later say "You are not talented enough for us" is disgusting.

And have you thought what thee university with a cut program is getting? How about a year's worth of tuition and other expenses (and they are expenses!).

In our search, we definately did not seek out ANY school with a cut program. Why are we going to pay for a school only to have to go through the possible hassle of spending more money transfering to another school. And..not to mention the fact that most music schools will not transfer many courses from other music schools.

My advice..if they say "cut"....look somewhere else. I truly question the validity of who gets cut. I had read sevreal things about folks who were cut by CCM who are now working professionals. Makes one wonder.

And..in regards to schools mailing information, I have to agree that there are some really weak information packages being sent out. We received a truly confusing one from NYU (Tisch) that seeem to needs a translator in order to figure out academic requirements, classes, etc (and don't bother with their admissions dept...I made two calls to them last February and never heard back!). Also, we never revceived any info requrested and promised from Point Park, UCLA, or Webster.

University of Miami and Oklahoma City University were the only ones who sent practical and relevant information about the MT degree and the school. We even received a call from OCU to make sure we received the information and if we had any questions. Now...that is customer service! Wish more were like that!

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 09:21 pm: Edit

Yale is a fantastic school with strong music and theatre departments. My son's school sends many kids there each year and the top performing arts kids often end up there. It does not have a musical theatre major as this thread is addressing. Yale is a top academic university with a performing arts component. They have no auditions in their application process. The thing that they are most concerned about in screening applications is the academic profile. That with a great "on paper" theatre hook does get kids
in. I know several kids who got into the program who were not strong in the performing arts at all--but they were super strong academically. And I've known these kids over a 10 year span--actually more. I realize there are celebrity students at Yale, as there are at all ivies, in the drama or performing arts, but that is like using YoYo Ma as an example for Harvard's music department vs Juilliard. There really is no comparison--they are not at all the same thing. It would not be easy to put together a traditional MT program at Yale--it is an automatic at the MT schools we are discussing. That is not to say that a student cannot cobble one together at Yale or any school that has music, dance and drama available. We are looking into programs where this is already done for the kids by people who are committed to training students in this specialized field.

As mentioned earlier on this thread, many people on Broadway come from schools that have no MT program or did not take MT type programs in college. But we are seeking this type of program because that is what are kids want to do for the next 4 years. It is the process that most of us parents are investigating in these schools, not the end result which is highly, probably entirely dependent on talent and luck, though training will help that talent shine and make the luck more probable.

By Keggo (Keggo) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 09:29 pm: Edit

I have a question to ask all the people on here who have attended or, have been recently accepted into CCM. I'd like to know how much dance experience you guys have had, prior to auditioning at CCM. I still have 2 years left before I start auditioning for colleges. I'm good in the singing/acting dept. and have done well w/ the little dance experience that I've had, and I'm starting ballet & tap this summer, or maybe fall.
I am just curious as to what you all had more experience in when you auditioned. because I know that CCM specializes in teaching 'triple threats', I wanted to start preparing now, If I actually want to have a chance making it there. Also UofM is another big one on my list (I'm only about 2 hours from Ann Arbor) w/ others being, CMU, Emerson, Milikin, FSU, Syracuse, Ithica & Northwestern. I still have to visit them all yet, which I hope to get to next winter.
Anyway, thanks ahead of time to anyone who feels like sharing any info!

All the Best,

K.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 10:16 pm: Edit

Brownalum, you totally missed my point. Did I ever say Yale did not have other amazing graduate programs, including opera (or anything else for that matter??). We were talking of theater and you said go to Yale for the best program and I was trying to say it is more known for its graduate program in theater than for undergraduate drama, plus has no musical theater program. This does not imply this is the only thing Yale is known for! I went on to say that I know several highly talented theater kids who chose Yale as undergraduates and are active in theater there. That is a different route than a BFA in musical theater. They do not have an undergraduate conservatory type program but do have a wonderfully reknowned graduate one. I was not talking of opera, only theater, and was talking of undergraduate which is what people here are looking for.

On every forum you defend Yale in a very very strong way. No problem loving Yale. Ya know, I have a senior who has Yale as a first choice, so I do not need to be convinced. She is not going into theater as a major but if she were to go to Yale, would likely opt to get involved in musicals there cause she has a background in this too. But my child who is pursuing musical theater as a career, will not be applying to Yale.


Out of curiousity since you post on many threads here about Yale, what are your ties to that school? I get confused by your posting name of Brownalum. Anyway, my daughter also is an applicant to Brown.
Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 10:19 pm: Edit

Djr, congrats to your daughter on Emerson, yay! My daughter will be likely applying. She has some friends there now for MT and one who got in early for next fall.
Susan

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 12:18 am: Edit

Did not recognize the Yale cheerleader. Brownalum's name fooled me too. Pretty sharp, Susan. All of those activities is not making your head spin too much.

By Collegegradmt (Collegegradmt) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 01:25 am: Edit

Hey all. I am a recent college grad from a theatre program at a state college in the Northeast but did not attend a school popular and known for it's Performing Arts program. I have built up my resume and had success with summerstock theatre and college productions but have realized the most important thing right now is to pursue training and discipline. I am auditioning for AMDA in a few weeks but have heard mixed reviews about it. I am looking for a place to concentrate on Acting and singing and I am not interested in simply getting a masters degree (although traditionally that is most likely the smart route.) At most, I am hoping to attend an institution that will push me harder and further in musical theatre. While I have heard mixed reviews, I continue to receive news letters and updates on the successes of recent graduate on broadway, off broadway, and touring. While I hope not be thrown off by the hoards of recently graduated high school students blinded by the lights and mystery of Broadway, I am more worried that I am about to embark on hours of private rehearsing and preparation outside of class, only to attend classes that do not push me to my limit. If anyone has had any experiences with this institution please share them with me. If you would like to feel free to be brutally honest :) please email me at MWetherb@mcla.edu. Thanks A LOT, M. P.S. It's early in the morning and I apologize for any poor grammar. :)

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 01:35 am: Edit

I cannot personally give you info about AMDA but there have been many posts on the 10 chapters of this thread about the programs there from those who seem to be very knowledgeable including kids who are there or were there. I suggest you do a message search and read up. An inexpensive alternative to research would be the studios associated with NYU's Tisch schools. They accept students on a full and part time basis independent of the NYU program. The head of a theatre group here got a BA from a LAC, then took a year or two of classes at one of these studio--Atlantic, I believe, and he has been successful in finding theatre based work both in NYC and here. He does quite well, in fact. I know that CAP21, Stella Adler, Lee Strasburg are a few other such studios but you should peruse the Tisch site to get the list and then check out each of the web sites. Though they are not equivalent to a Tisch degree by any means, they can be a valuable resource to someone who is coming from the West and wants to make contacts with New Yorkers in theatre business.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 08:31 am: Edit

Thanks "wct" and others who e mailed me privately regarding the Utah Shakespeare Festival acting internship. The folks on this CC thread are really great!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 09:37 am: Edit

Collegegradmt....also look into Circle in the Square Theater School in NYC. My daughter's voice teacher (here in VT) teaches voice there (midweek). It is a certificate program. Other faculty from there have come to do intensive workshops up here in VT that my daughter has been in and they are quite good. Just another alternative to look into.
Susan

By Beez (Beez) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 11:32 am: Edit

I have been following this thread for a long time now and am content to just read along until the negative comments about CCM just become more than I can bare. So..... allow me to inject MY thoughts here. For those of you who are hearing second hand information about CCM, it's cut policy, and the satisfaction of it's students, it is TOTALLY off base. It's a wonderful school with terrific students and teachers. IDon'tKnow, who is a very mature and talented young lady, was trying to tell you that although she got cut, which is something that all students know is a possibility, she valued the program, experience, training and relationships she gained during the last six months! Best of luck to you IDon'tKnow - your journey just continues! :) The cut policy (which most writers who have commented on it on this thread do not even know what exactly it really is) is a stressful thing to deal with but so is pursuing a career in a very competitive, rejection-filled industry. You students who are applying for these schools have most probably spent years working with your vocal coaches, dance instructors and acting coaches trying to perfect your talent. You have probably spent months or years with a particular teacher working on your skills. Could you imagine your personal coaches assessing you after only five minutes? The panel who makes the admission decisions at a given school spends five to fifteen minutes or so "getting to know" the prospective applicant. Can you imagine trying out for the lead in a big production and spending five minutes auditioning WITHOUT having to come back for a call-back. The casting director and producer just makes the BIG decision on that five minute initial audition? We don't "know" exactly what each school is looking for... most students don't get accepted into every school they audition for even though they may be incredibly talented because different schools are looking for different things.... (just like not every part in a play one audtions for works out for them because the director is looking for a certain thing) but to assume they always know 100% after that five to fifteen minute audition is pretty amazing! Don't we get upset when our child is having a "bad day" or is nervous before an audition or had a cold or a sore throat or didn't sleep well the night before and we know it wasn't their "best" presentation? Don't we get upset if our child is rejected from a program because that five minute audition is a bad representation of our child's "true" talent? Well, realistically, it probably works both ways. The kids that I know attending CCM LOVE the school and its program just as IDon'tKnow expressed in her earlier e-mail. The success rate for the program is one of the best in the industry - I suppose you could go through a program where you know once you're accepted, you're "in" for the four years, but that doesn't have much to do with what happens in the "real world" after college. I am sorry to be going on and on but I am tired of the CCM bashing and heresay and wanted you all to know that it is a wonderful school which provides the tools for a great chance for success upon graduation. Yes, it's a tough program but it's a tough business. It is a top school turning out very marketable students! The kids that I know in the program (which are many) LOVE it!

By Djr (Djr) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 11:59 am: Edit

To Brownalum, Collegegradmt, Gadad,

Maybe the attached list about MFA drama programs will be useful to you. It's from the March 1997 U.S. News on best graduate schools, so using it to evaluate undergrad isn't straightforward. Several of the players for undergrad MT are included, however: CMU, FSU, NC, Northwestern, PSU. The rankings consider only peer evaluation, and the survey had 53% response rate. The list has been reprinted several times, as late as 2001. In the 2003 issue, the editors said they'll be redoing the evaluation within a few years with additional criteria:

Drama/Theater
(Master of Fine Arts)
1. Yale University(CT) 4.7
2. New York University 4.4
3. University of California-SanDiego 4.0
4. North Carolina School of the Arts 3.9
4. University of Washington 3.9
6. American Conservatory Theater (CA) 3.8
6. Carnegie Mellon University (PA) 3.8
8. California Institute of the Arts 3.7
8. University of Texas-Austin 3.7
10. Northwestern University (IL) 3.6
10. University of Delaware 3.6
12. Boston University 3.5
12. Florida State University 3.5
12. Rutgers University-New Brunswick (NJ)3.5
12. University of California-Irvine 3.5
16. Brandeis University (MA) 3.4
16. Pennsylvania State University-University Park 3.4
16. University of California-Los Angeles 3.4
16. University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign 3.4
16. University of NCarolina-Chapel Hill 3.4

Djr

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Beez,

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone here but I think you're missing the point of many who object to the cut policy. It's the cut policy, and the resulting consequences which many of us find objectionable. You're right that in an audition for any show, big or small, one might not be able to adequately judge a performer. That's why most have callbacks prior to actual casting. The difference here is that CCM is a school, a place of training and education. It's not a production, and they're not casting for a show. We're all well aware that the theatre is a competitive, rejection-filled industry and obviously, those of us who have made the decision to pursue it, realize that that is what we must face. However, the college years where we hope to be further trained so that we're prepared for a future in theatre, are not the place where such a major rejection should occur. As I stated in my last post, it's the college's job to train students, it's a place of education. It's not meant to be the 'real world'. It was the cut policy that people were discussing, not the actual training at the school so you shouldn't take it as 'bashing' and hearsay. Your experience or that of those whom you know who've gone there and enjoyed it is, I might point out, also hearsay. :) Differing opinions are part of what makes this forum so interesting. No one program is going to be what EVERY student wants.

By Collegegradmt (Collegegradmt) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 01:17 pm: Edit

Thanks for the great advice! I wish I had discovered this website a LOONG time ago!

By Nickdad (Nickdad) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 01:32 pm: Edit

Thanks Emily...you are correct. CCM's cut policy is what this discussion is about. The fact that (as THEY love to claim) CCM offers the best musical theater training is not the issue (although that is a ridiculous claim for them to make).

If CCM is speninding only 5 to 10 minutes in an audition situation in order to "get to know" the student...who's fault is that? We've been to auditions that have taken 20 minutes and taken the time to not only hear the person sing but also talk and find out who they are. Those are the schools worth your time.

Always remember....if there's a lot of agreeing opinions about a school, then there's probably some truth to it. Count me in for those who think CCM is not worth it.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 02:08 pm: Edit

Beez--

What bothers me most about your post is that you seem to be totally discounting the opinions on this board that are contrary to yours. Many of us have spent months and months researching, visiting, and contacting the faculty of these schools. In fact, talking on this board is another way of researching. If you have been following the discussion for as long as you say you have, then you know most of us on here well enough to know that there are few that would take a stand on a subject we know nothing about. I am incredibly insulted by your statement that "most writers on this thread who have commented on the [CCM cut policy] do not even know what exactly it is." You have no idea what we know.

As Emily said, the main topic of discussion was not the circumstances surrounding the cut. That, to me, is less important than the consequences of being cut.

I will be the first to claim that I am far from being an expert on CCM. (Being rebuffed by their administrators after flying clear across the country to visit the school made me decide that I would be better off focusing on colleges elsewhere.) What is your knowledge base on the school? You say that you know people going to CCM. That's great; so do I. Is that your only contact with the school? How do you have so much information about CCM that you can make such broad claims about the quality of the program? I would like to know exactly where you are coming form.

CCM could be a great choice for some people. However, I personally think the idea of a cut policy is atrocious and that it's not the place for me.

Shauna

By Brownalum (Brownalum) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 03:36 pm: Edit

SoozieVT, I'm not "defending" Yale or anyone else. I'm pointing out the facts.

In other threads, my posts might be construed as defenses of MIT, or Caltech, or Wellesley, or Brown.

But they are not. They are just the straight facts. I am not a biased poster, despite having graduated from Brown.

Good luck!

By Queenhavok (Queenhavok) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 04:48 pm: Edit

You guys, cant we all just get along? lol.

I've been reading since the first thread, gosh you guys are so helpful! Im a junior vocal major at a performing arts h.s. and Im stressed out trying to find the right college for me. Im stressed about the audition process (i.e. choosing the songs, the monologues...) I wish I had some guidance on the songs and monologues with actual titles and pieces. The selection is so broad and it's driving me nuts because I cant seem to narrow it down.

Also has anyone ATTENDED the precollege CAP21 musical theatre program? Or does anyone have any feedback on it?

thanks much.

By Beez (Beez) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 04:50 pm: Edit

Although I respect all of your opinions about CCM, my knowledge of the program is based on the fact that I have a daughter currently in it. From speaking with her just about every day and also having the pleasure of chatting with some of her classmates, I would have to reiterate that CCM is a wonderful school with an incredible group of kids who realize that CCM, although a tough program, is a great program which will help them achieve the success they are seeking upon graduation.

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 05:30 pm: Edit

Nickdad,
Webster actually sends out a very good brochure about their theater programs and working alumni. You can either call and request one or it will automatically be sent after you apply and are accepted academically. Webster is an awesome school and they are very helpful if and when you make a call to their admissions office.
~Cait

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 05:45 pm: Edit

Again, Beez, no one is denying your right to your opinion. That's what we're all doing here, giving our opinions. Yours is no more valid than anyone else's who has knowledge of the program at CCM. Many individuals here know past or current students and are obviously getting a different perspective than yours. That doesn't make any of us wrong. I'm glad your daughter is enjoying it there. And wow, do you REALLY talk to her everyday? Yikes! :)

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Queenhavok,
When it comes to picking your pieces I would suggest you start now. I can't really give you any advice for pieces because I can't pick them for you. The piece has to speak to you as a performer. If you can't let the piece go, then you nkow it's meant to be. I'd also suggest staying away from overdone pieces. It is possible to find more obscure pieces (don't do anything that's HUGE on broadway currently, cliche - aka: les miz, or one of the classic, well-known musicals). It is very possible to find songs if you search through different scores and shows. I was fortunate enough to be able to get away with doing a song from a HUGE show on broadway because the sheet music has not been published yet - I contacted Stephen Schwartz to obtain a copy of "Popular." I'd suggest contacting composers and showing that you can go the extra mile.
When it comes to monologues I suggest you begin reading every play you can get your hands on. Also, I don't normally suggest this - but for your classical piece - just go find a bunch of different monologue books and don't use Shakespeare unless specifically asked to. Your objective is to set yourself apart. By really doing the research and finding good pieces that aren't seen every 5 minutes and that fit you really well, the people you audition for will take note of this. At my CMU audition, the second acting guy I went to said that he rarely saw my classical piece and that it was a really good choice. So, you will get notice for that. The voice teacher there was also very impressed that I'd gotten my hands on a copy of "Popular."
So, just start looking now and find a piece that really grabs on to your heart and just won't let you walk away from it.
Also, it is very important to remember (you mentioned you're a voice major - you probably already know this): Acting is the key to good singing and most programs want someone who not only can sing but is a phenomonal actor.
Best of luck to you next year!
~Cait

By Yaz42 (Yaz42) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 06:35 pm: Edit

Hello,

I apologize for my brief hiatus from the board and I wish all of you the best of luck in your upcoming decisions.

I am a second-semester BFA Musical Theatre major at Emerson College, and as far as the question of voice training goes at the school, I love it. Although there is no official school of music, there are voice lessons, song analysis, ensemble voice, chorus, music theory, etc, to be taken.

My first semester voice training entailed a half hour voice lesson once a week, and chorus once a week for 2 and a half hours. There was also an Ensemble Voice class, which didn't really live up to its name at all --- basically all the BFA's had a class together and we got up and, one at a time, workshopped musical theatre songs with a different teacher each week. The teachers had different approaches to the music, coming from a composition background, an opera background, or a theatrical background. The faculty at Emerson, including the voice teachers, are all incredible. My voice teacher is Gina Beck and I love her --- she has done so much with my voice since I got to Emerson that other teachers have come up to her and congratulated her on my progress. Also, I'm overflowing with audition material. And obscure, great material at that...more like "Arioso: Lonley House" from "Street Scene" than "Popular" from "Wicked."

This semester, I still have chorus for 2 hours and 45 minutes on Fridays and no longer have Ensemble Voice, but I now have an hour voice lesson in its place. I enjoy the hour lesson much more, although Ensemble Voice was a great opportunity to get to know each other as a class the first semester as well as the teachers. My acting work right now is based on the voice work of Kristen Linklater (a former head of the Emerson theatre department) --- my teacher is one of only 100 Linklater designated teachers in the world --- I love her. As for those of you who are turned off by Emerson's lack of a physical music department, I promise that your voice will not be neglected. Mine, personally, has been flourishing.

Also, in regards to the girl who was cut by CCM, I should add that Emerson requires a reaudition for the BFA's at the end of the sophomore year. There's a general attrition rate in musical theatre students (two of the thirty have already transferred since the first semester) and the goal is to have a BFA studio of about 17. The BFA studio shifts the program to more of a conservatory-like style, and the teachers say that such intense work cannot be done with a larger class. They also say that if you do your work, you will not be cut.

I love it in Boston. I love it at Emerson.

Scott

By Alanz (Alanz) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 06:41 pm: Edit

When I heard "Popular" for the first time, I loved it. I then realized that thousands of girls will use it for their audition songs in the first year.

Kip Nevin, who was the head of Emerson's MT department last year said "Never, ever audition with a song that's been on Broadway in the last five years"

Sounds like fine advice to me

By Queenhavok (Queenhavok) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 06:42 pm: Edit

Caitie531

Thanks so much! I do have a list of songs and monologues that I want to do, but choosing one is hard...I know about not picking things that are incredibly popular like Les Miz, Rent, etc...

Hey! I was reading past threads and I came across one of your posts that said you'd be performing as Eponine in Les Miz. For a moment, I thought you attended my school because they did a production of Les Miz this year too!

Can I email you with specific questions? If not, that's totally ok.

By the way, WOW! You were able to get the music sheet to "Popular" ? Go you!

Thanks again.

By Dknysinger (Dknysinger) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 07:31 pm: Edit

Well, I'm done with the whole college process! It was long, tiring, but so exciting. I'm 4 for 4. I just heard from Ithaca today! Now it's time to make some choices. I was so nervous because I felt as if I auditioned for too few schools, but I knew what I wanted from my future college and I went for it.
-The only advice I can give is to be yourself!
I used golden age broadway songs that showed off the legit sound of my voice, but also the abilty to transfer to neo/broadway pop. For men, they really want you to show your vocal range. I've been told that a good range for training a male, is a low g to a high g. (Full voice) They also want to see if you have a falcetto. (Head voice) In fact at two of my auditions they vocalized me up to a high c, (Yes, the high note for a soprano. I'm a freak!) The presence of a falcetto shows that your voice has the abilty to strech and change with training.
-Both of my monologes were very original and every adjudicator made a statement about this. In the fall i spent my weekends in libraries reading plays and picking out possibilities.
-I'm so excited for the fall, I just don't know where i'll be going. I think will go and observe classes at a few of the colleges.

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Hey Emily-

I can understand talking to your daughter almost everyday. I don't see anything surprising about that. Many parents do.

Probably enough has been said about the CCM cut issue, however, I appreciated hearing first hand from someone who has a child in the program. For those considering CCM, it can be a great disservice to try and qualify the CCM policy without having first hand information or even knowing the circumstances of "Idontknow". Both sides of the story need to be presented so that decisions can be made based on fact rather than perceptions.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 11:20 pm: Edit

Mnmom,

Well, maybe you don't see anything surprising about that, and that's fine. I know lots of college kids and I must say, I don't know any who talk to their mother everyday, or even almost everyday. It's not that big a deal, I was just expressing my surprise.

I'm not sure if you were hinting to me that the discussion about CCM should be stopped, with your comment. I hope not. As I said before, everyone is presenting their opinions here. Beez has a child in the program, Idontknow was herself in the program, others have auditioned for CCM, I know five people who are past or present students. We all have opinions on it and no one was suggesting that both sides of the story shouldn't be presented. If you were directing your comments to me, I don't appreciate the insinuation that my opinion was based on perception while hers was based on fact. That just isn't the case.

By Queenhavok (Queenhavok) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 12:35 am: Edit

Emilyp114,

Take a chill pill. You're getting boring.

By Psucat (Psucat) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 01:08 am: Edit

I talk to my mom every day from college She is my best friend, so she always knows what is going on from day to day! She could probably talk about PSU's program as much as I could and how I am feeling!

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 03:55 am: Edit

Alanz,
I completely agree with you about "Popular." Thus, the reason I'm glad I used it now while not many people have a copy. Heh heh heh... I lucked out on that one...
QueenHavok,
Anytime! Yeh... we closed tonight for Les Miz... I wasn't in it (double casting)... but it was a pretty remarkable show for a high school... I was sobbing by the end of it... a very emotionally draining night for all of us seniors. Eponine was an amazing role to take on and I am glad that I had the opportunity. If you wanna see pictures feel free to check them out... they're way fun (I am the short, brown-haired Eponine):
www.campochoir.com
Oh, and feel free to email me anytime. Especially about CMU - I did their summer program and have a brother there... so I can definately help you out with info about the school...
~Cait

By Bdwaymom (Bdwaymom) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 08:36 am: Edit

Thank you dear sweet daughter(PSUcat) I was just about to write that we talk every day, some times lots of times just to say hi and touch base and then saw that you had! Every person is different and some don't feel the need or want to talk to home more than once a week. My daughter and I enjoy catching up on life every day. Happy 19th again CAT!

DKNY...what are your 4 choices? Great position to be in, but hard to make that final choice. Visiting one last time is a good idea and then follow your heart and gut instinct.

Michele

By Dknysinger (Dknysinger) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 10:35 am: Edit

My choices are-

ITHACA (1 of 12)
Syracuse (1 of 30)
PSU (1 of 18)
U of the Arts (1 of 20)

I think it is just going to be between ITHACA and PSU.

By Bdwaymom (Bdwaymom) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 10:45 am: Edit

DKNY...please feel free to E mail my daughter at cat190@psu.edu and talk to her more in depth about PSU's program. If you want to go for a day and sit in on classes, she'd be more than happy to meet up with you. She loves the program and has had a great first year!

Michele

By Bookiemom (Bookiemom) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 11:45 am: Edit

Emilyp114: Please ignore that unkind post from Queenhavok. Your posts are not boring at all, and I enjoy hearing about NYU and Tisch. You are an excellent writer, and I can see why you are double-majoring in English.

I talk to my daughter at college every day as well. (She calls me.)

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 11:54 am: Edit

Nickdad,

you said: "We've been to auditions that have taken 20 minutes and taken the time to not only hear the person sing but also talk and find out who they are. Those are the schools worth your time."

Which schools were those, if you don't mind? !! Thanks.

By Queenhavok (Queenhavok) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 12:07 pm: Edit

Bookiemom,

I was specifically referring to the back and forth banter about CCM, not about Emilyp114 knowledge on NYU and Tisch or her excellent use of the english language. In fact, I enjoy reading her posts because I find them very informative and helpful. Obviously, you did not understand what you refer to as my "unkind" post.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 05:17 pm: Edit

I have so enjoyed this forum because of all of the DIFFERENT observations and opinions about the many programs and processes out here in MT. I am getting concerned about some of the offence taken about negative info about some of the programs.

We are in the process of visiting these schools and I really want to share OUR experience. In most cases, it will just be a second hand conveyance of my son's take on a school or program since I am not accompanying him on many of his visits. I would like to give open comments on the schools without feeling like I am insulting anyone. No comment, observation, opinion given on this forum should be taken without a personal examination of the situation and appraisal of where the student falls in the context of the school. And really so it should be with information gathered from other sources as well.

Just to go through the training that enables you to go through the audition process makes the applicants in these programs a special and unusual group. Top nth percent in talent, dreams and fortitude. To get into these programs with the numbers I have seen is an enormous accomplishment.

I have made some observations about two top programs Penn State and CCM. Both are on the top of MY list for a variety reasons. The location and familiarity of Penn State figures largely. CCM is in a city where my older son and daughter are likely to be and it would be so wonderful to have them together instead of spread out. Both programs have excellent reputations and frankly, for anyone to get into these schools is a dream come true. Who in their right minds would diss these schools? All discussions are just that--not attempts to downgrade or insult the schools and their programs. Issues are brought up that need to be investigated further and brought into personal perspective. To not bring them up is a disfavor to all who are hungry for the inside scoop on these schools. And the inside scoop will differ from visitor to visitor, participant to participant, family to family. Nothing personal intended towards anyone. And of course we want additional info or rebuttal info on such observations. Just please don't get so steamed about things that really do belong on this forum.

I am feeling a bit hesitant about posting things that I know I would like to know and consider in a school because I am afraid of offending someone when the intent is not there at all. My son will be ever so lucky to get into any of the MT schools. The acceptance rate is one of the most negative factors in taking a chance on this field of study. Never mind the rough road when you finish the studies, just getting your toe in the door is difficult.

So please post away, those with info to offer, and please do not feel that any program is being degraded.

By Queenhavok (Queenhavok) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 05:27 pm: Edit

Well said...I agree.

By Theaternutt (Theaternutt) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 05:47 pm: Edit

Have any of you heard about the new music theater program at Westminster Choir College in Princeton, New Jersey? I always knew they had a wonderful voice program for opera and obviously their choirs are world class, but I just heard from a friend whose daughter auditioned there for music theater and they loved it. They were very impressed by the level of vocal training the students would be getting and thought the people there were incredibly friendly (something that's refreshing in this process!). Since it's a new program, it is still pretty small. The students will be getting plenty of personal attention. They have several alumni of their voice program who are already successful on Broadway (and many who are on opera stages). It sounds great. I just thought I'd pass on the info. My daughter will be auditioning there soon herself (they have rolling admissions...so we didn't have to rush it as much as with some of the others), and we're now looking forward to the experience.

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 05:51 pm: Edit

Emily,

No, I was not meaning you were not to continue speaking to the CCM cut issue, I was actually feeling bad about continuing it myself! And I certainly was not directing any insinuation at you pertaining to fact or perception. I actually meant that we hadn't heard any first hand info or circumstances from "Idon'tknow".

My MT child had a great audition experience with the CCM staff, was accepted by CCM and is quite excited about the opportunity. I imagine there are others out there that have had the same experience and also received acceptance--- and as they face the difficult decision of choosing the right school for them, I just think we need to be careful to share as much factual information as we can.

But....I am cool with opinions and hopefully you are cool with mine...

So keep sharing..

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 06:05 pm: Edit

Thanks Jamimom!

I think you've articulated what many of us have been thinking as these discussions have heated up a bit. This forum is a place for us to relate our experiences and impressions and it is up to each family to follow up and gather information from as many reliable sources as they can before making their own decisions. These are, after all, personal decisions. What's good for the goose may NOT be good for the gander.

Let's keep our focus on helping each other and sharing information while understanding that we all come to this challenge with our own individual needs, experiences, expectations, hopes and dreams. Especially as we are getting into "decision times," things do get tense and it is only human nature to want to defend our own choices and points of view. Let's just continue to respect each other when those points of view diverge and not discourage anyone from expressing theirs. There has been a depth and breadth of information and support here that is not available anywhere else that I know of. Let's keep it coming!

By Ayam (Ayam) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 06:07 pm: Edit

My dad's been reading this message board and pointing out various posts for me to read for a while now. I auditioned for MT at Ithaca, NYU, Hartt, Elon, Emerson, Muhlenberg (BA program), Bard (BA, not MT, just Theatre), USC (not MT, just Theatre), CMU, and Otterbein. Thus far I've heard from and been accepted to both Ithaca and Muhlenberg. I still have yet to hear from the rest of the schools, but I see myself most likely ending up at Ithaca.
I hope the next few weeks bears good news for all!
~ A Yam

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 06:20 pm: Edit

Good luck to you, Ayam.. My son is looking at many of the same schools you did only for next year. Do tell us what your experiences have been at your auditions. We are looking forward to hearing the results as well. Congrats on the Ithaca and Muhlenberg acceptances. Both schools were highly recommended by S's school counselor who is well informed about performing arts. I'll keep my fingers crossed for more choices for you.

By Psucat (Psucat) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Ayam--
I auditioned for Elon last year! It is one of those schools that hasn't been mentioned much on this board. I actually visited during the middle of an ice storm and my audition was in a building with no heat or light (when I had to go to the bathroom, I took a huge flashlight with me!!) How did you feel about the program and the school? Just curious!

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 07:21 pm: Edit

jrmom,
Schools that were like that for me were:
CMU
U of Miami (FL)
Webster
All three spent a lotof time getting to know me! Fabulous schools!

By Shauna (Shauna) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 08:36 pm: Edit

Emily--

I hardly find you boring. And anyway, someone who thinks a few posts about CCM are boring is bound to find 10 pages of musical theatre programs boring as well, and I think we are hardly that.

In other news, CMU sends letters tomorrow. I'm incredibly anxious. Good luck to all!

Shauna

EDITED TO ADD: Susan, I was going to email you but I couldn't find your email address. As I remember, your daughter is a sophomore or a junior, correct? She should really think about participating in a program called America's Junior Miss. I have spent the past year participating in this program and have really gained a lot from it. I just got back from a JM get-together today and when I came to post on here I realized that this might be something your daughter would enjoy. Techinically it is a scholarship program, so I should be OK to post a link on here...if you go to http://www.ajm.org you can find a lot of information on what it's all about.

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 08:46 pm: Edit

Theaternutt,

I would be happy to discuss our impressions of Westminster where my daughter auditioned and was accepted.

Westminster has been acquired by Rider but is separate from the campus and is itself in Princeton. (You can get to take courses at Princeton, by the way)

It is a lovely small college that we think does a great job with what it's been doing for a long time. The musical theatre program is in its first year. The voice training appears to be excellent. We had an opportunity to sit in on one of the choir classes and we were very impressed. Everyone must participate in choir.

The training appears to be heavily classically oriented so depending on what your needs/likes are, you may or may not like it.

The facilities were in our judgment poor. This may be because it is a new program. They do NOT do dance anywhere on campus. The dance is held at the Princeton Ballet Company (or some name similar- can't remember a few blocks away). Does not appear to be affiliated with Princeton University. We didn't get much of a feel one way or other for the acting piece.

You can travel between Westminster and Rider by public bus (they no longer run shuttles) but they said the public buses worked out fine for students who wish to go there for classes. However, you can do an entire program (including electives and general ed requirements) by remaining on the Westminster Campus.

It appeared like a friendly and nurturing environment. Biggest drawbacks for us were the classical orientation and lack of facilities. The former might actually be a draw for others.

By Djr (Djr) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 09:32 pm: Edit

Jrmom

The level of engagement with the faculty during auditions was highest at Baldwin-Wallace, Carnegie Mellon, and Emerson. Carnegie Mellon by far spent the most time and had the longest conversation after the audition. My daughter wrote to the faculty after returning home. Every faculty member at CMU wrote back to her -- and not just with a "thanks for your note" but with personal comments to her. All this, and we will be very surprised if she gets accepted. We just think that the faculty is so caring and professional that they will respond to anyone this way, whether they see a future for them at CMU or elsewhere. Very very impressive people. Emerson faculty members were not far behind.

Djr

By Monkey (Monkey) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 09:47 pm: Edit

Jrmom,
I agree with Djr on the receptiveness of the CMU audition and faculty. This was my daughter's first audition ( as well as the first one CMU held )and she was thinking of it as a way to try out the process, not ever thinking she'd be accepted. She left feeling so positive about the experience and the MT program and faculty. They spent lots of time with her, having her try her monologue different ways and she sang for more than one audition team. This was true for about a third of the students who auditioned that day. She wound up being accepted ( after waitlisted ) but ultimately chose another school. However, that first audition experience started her off on such a positive note, and we all left feeling that CMU had a nurturing faculty with top notch training.

By Djr (Djr) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Jrmom

One more comment -- the administrative offices (deans, directors, etc., of enrollment, etc.) at the following schools were great: Baldwin-Wallace, Carnegie Mellon, and Hartt. In this case, Hartt stood out the most.

By Musicmom (Musicmom) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 05:54 am: Edit

Our family has had great experiences with the staff (deans, admissions office, professors) at Hartt as well.
They seem to care who your student is (ie not just a number) and are very responsive.
It is a school that could be a fit for our son. They also have a very humane non-binding early action plan and generous merit money.

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 08:23 am: Edit

Emilyp114,
Please disregard the rude comment that was said earlier by a poster. I think you are one of the most informative and articulate posters on this thread. And as far as NYU - Tisch info goes, you are better at giving a true perspective on the school than anyone we have had contact with there. I also admire your ability to double major in English and drama. If my child gets in, I would hope that she could double major as well there. Also, your sentiments about the programs that cut students are precisely those of the MT director at Michigan. Let the 4 years in college be a time for training and risk taking - not fear and the possibility of not graduating anywhere if one was cut. Thanks for everything you've ever written Emily - I only wish I could have spoken to you earlier (like last summer or fall).
Sincerely,
Mtheatremom

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 09:22 am: Edit

My daughter's application/audition experiences have been quite varied and I'm happy to share our impressions. I've detailed the specific audition day experiences in several posts in earlier parts of this thread (NYU Steinhardt in November, Emerson and Syracuse in December, and Michigan, CCM and CMU in January). We also had lovely non-audition visits at UM and PSU in October. If you are interested in reading them, once the message search function is restored the posts should be easy to find or just go into the Archives listed at the bottom of the Main Topics screen.

We got lots of personal attention at NYU Steinhardt. They have maintained consistent, personal contact with us since her audition in November. I strongly advise any of you who are considering NYU to take them up on the offer to do the Open Audition in November. Otherwise you have to wait to be invited to audition after the application and supporting documents are reviewed. While they would never confirm this, it is widely believed that if they like your audition, they will go to bat for you with the admissions office.

We thought the folks at Syracuse were warm, welcoming and refreshingly honest. Our student tour giver was incredibly well informed and also honest. It was a positive experience all around. Their admissions office has had some problems with coordinating and keeping track of submitted materials, which was a bit scarey at times, but they have been very communicative.

Our visit to Emerson was colored by the fact that it took place in the middle of the worst blizzard of the winter - no one there seemed especially impressed that we had all managed to get there (an AMAZING achievement!) and while the interaction with the students was okay (not great, my daughter reported) most of the parents felt like prisoners. They couldn't even be bothered to scare up a cup of coffee - told us that we weren't allowed to walk anywhere else around the building without an escort and suggested we walk back out into the storm to find food or drink for the 5 hours we were there. Thanks!

The folks at UM have been friendly and accommodating from Day 1 - set up meetings and class observations when my husband and daughter visited in October, had lots of great communication with us by email and letters leading up to the audition in January, had an assigned Auditions Coordinator who handled any questions or issues related to the audition process (he even gave us earlier time slots at our request when we told him of our tight travel plans) and ran the auditions like bunch of friendly Marines - totally scheduled so you knew what to expect and when - and many, many current students participated in the day's activities and were available to talk to students and parents all day long.

While we had nothing but a positive experience in applying to CCM and getting information from them, CCM's auditions were also run like the Marines, but more like the ones from the SEAL boot camp in the movie GI JANE. Not a happy day. 'Nuf said......

Our CMU audition experience was also colored by a blizzard but we were predisposed to be forgiving because of my daughter's stellar pre-college MT experience there last summer. But I must confess that I thought that while they were really friendly and tried hard to put the kids at ease, the day felt very disorganized, which I find to be anxiety provoking. In their defense, we received a call afterwards from the Director of Admissions (to this day, I have no idea how he knew about all the problems we encountered there). He was wonderful and sincerely interested in getting input as to how we thought the experience could be improved and was very hungry for information about how the other programs handled the same process. I think there are communication issues there but totally believe they are committed to dealing with them.

My daughter had two additional applications on file and auditions scheduled at PSU and Boston Conservatory. However, when she was accepted by UM about two weeks after her audition, she opted to withdraw her applications at those schools and cancelled the auditions. Just for the record, PSU was gracious, understanding and supportive when I told them why we were doing that (THEY asked why). I have had nothing but warm and fuzzy feelings about PSU all along and was very impressed by the MT voice class we observed there. I would have been thrilled had my daughter elected to go there (on many levels - I think the program is strong, it receives unparalled support from the University and as PA residents, it would have been a relative bargain for us - Sigh......) The woman at BC basically hung up the phone on me when I told her we were trying to do the right thing by cancelling because my daughter knew she would accept UM over BC. Thanks again........

So there is our story in a (big) nutshell. Anyone with more specific questions should feel free to email me. I've been able to have lots of my questions answered and have exchanged wonderful, informative, supportive emails with several people on this forum and I'd be happy to return the favor!

Finally, my daughter and, of course, my husband and I feel so lucky. Thus far she has been accepted to Emerson(Early Action), to the University of Michigan and to Syracuse (all BFA's in MT), rejected by CCM, and we await word from CMU (she considers this a total longshot) and NYU Steinhardt. We can't wait to hear everyone's results and I hope someday to meet more of you out there in the real world.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 09:25 am: Edit

OOOPS!!

Just checked, and the Archives are listed on the College Search and Selection page, NOT the Main Topics page - Sorry.....

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 09:50 am: Edit

Theatermom, thanks for that overview though I remember reading the specific posts a while back. All that kind of first hand information is part of what makes this thread invaluable.

Personally, I am glad there was discussion on the CCM cut issue. I like hearing as much info. as I can and first hand experiences. Anyone knows to not weigh just one person's account as the definitive answer on things such as this. I respect all views of this issue. I certainly do not think that those who knocked the cut policy were knocking the actual program at CCM. CCM is highly regarded in musical theater training. I know my daughter is quite interested in the school. That is why it is good to hear how the cuts work and whatever else is related to that. Just learning more about that issue or even views on that issue does not imply that people are knocking CCM's program itself. I noticed people defending CCM. I think people just want to learn about these specific things and it is ok to not believe in the cut and still think CCM is an excellent program. I hope people keep posting their experiences.

Emily, your inside views on NYU are valuable and I enjoy your posts. By the way, I am taking my daughter to visit NYU and Tisch next Monday. So far, she is spending the night in the dorm with a close friend / former roomie at theater camp who is at Tisch for film. She is taking or observing a dance class at Cap21 with a friend who is a soph in that program. She is going to do the tour and info. session for NYU in general, and also the Tisch session. Her Cap 21 friend was trying to get her into observe a voice related class with someone she says is fantastic who was recently in a musical that my daughter loves, but I think we might have to pass on that as it overlaps the Tisch session which I think is important to attend on this first visit, plus the voice class gets out so late and we have a six hour trip home that night. I will let ya know how it goes.

Congrats to Ayam on your acceptances so far! And good luck on the rest of the letters to come.

Shauna...I have not posted my email on here. I do not know how private what you wanted to mail me is or if you can just post it? I have a feeling you could figure out my email from my posting name. It is really sweet of you to have thought of my daughter in the way that you did. To answer, she is a soph in high school but is now graduating high school one year early so will be applying to college this coming fall. I suppose she would be considered a senior next year. I will read about that program but is that the pageant thing we see on TV? In general, while I do agree that it is great as a scholarhip opportunity, my daughter is not into pageants and has never participated in that type of thing. It sounds like you have had some wonderful experiences. She performs a lot but does not compete in things. I do think she will submit for that ARTS scholarship awards as the prep for it is not that different than prepping for college auditions. Right now, there is no time to look into doing the ARTS award submission but perhaps she will in August. I don't think we can add much more to her plate at the moment! We already have umpteen conflicts in her schedule as it is (this past weekend had several as does this coming week)! LOL

My fingers are crossed for you on your final decision letters. If I recall, you are in at one school, so keep the faith cause you have something, even if not your first choice. The main thing is you can be successful anywhere. It is you who will succeed, not the school you attend. Good luck to you.

Susan

By Peggy (Peggy) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 09:51 am: Edit

While we're sitting here waiting for two notification letters, I thought I would throw out something.

For any of you that end out at UMich that are dancers, feel free to e-mail me privately. My daughter takes her dance lessons in Ann Arbor, and there is a wonderful, high-level class that takes drop-ins. The classes are Friday night and Sunday noon-ish, so they don't conflict with college classes. According to my daughter, they are "kick-butt" classes. And she dearly loves theml!

Back to waiting,

Peg

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 10:30 am: Edit

Susan,

One piece of advice re the ARTS competition. If you really think she will enter the competition, take the time to download and submit her application before the "early bird" deadline, which if I remember correctly was June 1 last year. It's a very short, mostly facts, application and there is a discount for applying early. The submission materials themselves, e.g. CD or video, etc., are not due until November 1. I just checked the website (www.nfaa.org) and the application is not available yet but should be soon.

My daughter entered this year in Classical Voice and MT and even just doing the prep work for the submission was invaluable for her audition process. As a result of her winning Honorable Mention in Voice/Soprano, we received many letters of interest from schools she had not thought of applying to. It is also a VERY WELL respected competition and any recognition that comes as a result of entering it is viewed very positively on a college application. The three categories of recognition are Finalist (@ top 1-2%, depending on category), Honorable Mention (top 5%) and Merit (top 10%).

By the way, it is from the finalists in this competition that the Presidential Scholars in the Arts are chosen. Wct, a frequent poster to this forum, has a son who entered NFAA in 2003 in the Theater/Acting category who was a finalist and eventually was declared a Presidential Scholar in the Arts. As a result, along with the great recognition, he got a nice little scholarship and was able to perform at the Kennedy Center in a gala attended by the First Lady. He's an extremely talented young man who is now pursuing a BFA in Acting at CMU.

Good luck!

By 5pants (5pants) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 10:46 am: Edit

Goodness Sakes...I have been reading this post for a little over a year. It's amazing how emotions are rather high right now....must be the anxiety of waiting for those letters. We must all remember that we all have our own opinions and must stay open minded...one way is not always "the" way.

So how would you like to deal with twins waiting for their letters? Its been a tad bittersweet. One was invited to a great acting school and the other waitlisted for the very same one....because they are identical we are beginning to wonder if that has become a saturation of a particular look into the casting pool....although it is novel, it can also be a drawback to look just like another person.

We are still waiting on one more set of letters (from a MT program) and they should come this week. I have my fingers crossed that the one twin that got waitlisted will be invited into this next school (he happens to be the better singer). BUT if he doesn't I guess that is just life....when you're given lemons make lemonade.

I keep using the analogy that these letters are a bit like Christmas....you can wait and wait and hope to get what you always wanted....but sometimes you open the package and see that it is just another pair of slippers knitted by Grandma...it isn't always what you want, but oh well....you have to go from there.

Break a leg to all of you still waiting for responses! I'll stay posted!

5pants

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 12:01 pm: Edit

Theatermom, that was very thoughtful of you to share what you know of the ARTs process. I had visited the site back in early Feb. and printed out all the information. At that time, the application for this coming year was not yet available. I have not read over this packet I printed out lately. I did recall the early date of June but the final date of November. I recently was chatting with my D about it and she agreed that in no way could she have it all ready for early June, with her musical, dance shows, SATs, SAT2s, piano national auditions, and umpteen other things prior to June going on...trip to Italy/Greece, too. She said that since it is a little similar to preparing for college auditions, she thought August when she is home might work out (she goes away six weeks every summer to a theater program out of state). I am so glad you posted what you did just now cause I made an assumption that she had to wait til fall then to submit, whereas you are saying that the paper work can go in by June 1 but the audition tape can be sent later. Well, I did not realize that and that sounds very wise. I noticed your daughter on there and also actually a few kids my daughter knows out of state (from her summer program) who have been honored in the listings for theater. I will look it over sometime again this spring....and yes, I saw you can enter for more than one category....so maybe voice, musical theater, and jazz but ya know, right now, my guess is to go for musical theater. She recently won the state scholarship award for vocal performance (had to sing classical for that) and for jazz vocals. Her forte is more the musical theater repetoire but I guess she can sing a variety of stuff. This past weekend she sang in a variety show, accompanying herself on piano and did not sing MT at all but sang Nora Jones and Stevie Wonder! But I think of her as a MT type anyway, lol. How she won at the state level for classical or jazz...I dunno!

I do appreciate your sharing this information. Also, my D most definitely will be visiting UMich as it is one of the most appealing programs to her of all of them (on paper at this juncture). The pull of NYC, however, is still prevalent, thus NYU is still a preference at this point.

Thanks again.
Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 12:04 pm: Edit

PS...not only is your daughter's award impressive, congrats to WCT's son...what an honor. And to perform at the Kennedy Center is a big thrill. My daughter also performed at the Kennedy Center a couple years ago and it was one of the most thrilling things she has done to date, particularly coming from a little town in VT! She got her own dressing room backstage and just seeing all the famous performer's photos and signatures lining the hallway to her dressing room, it just felt like, so neat.
Susan

By Dramamommy (Dramamommy) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 01:37 pm: Edit

Hi everyone. I haven't posted in a while. I have just been too busy reading and absorbing everyone's invaluable advice and wisdom. I can't even begin to verbalize how helpful this board has been. My questions are answered before they are even asked!!

My daughter (HS junior) will be making her first serious college visit in a couple of weeks to Florida State. She will also have a one-on-one interview in the Theater Department. Could anyone out there give us some advice on what to ask and maybe more specifically, what not to ask? I guess I am just concerned that she gets all her specific questions answered but she really doesn't know what the staff will want to know from her. Should she have her headshot and resume ready to hand over or is that too inappropriate at this early stage of the game? Any advice anyone could offer as well as opinions on FSU would be appreciated.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 01:53 pm: Edit

My son took his resume and head shot with him just in case, but has not had an opportunity to hand it over. I think they just need to feel that one out. I always tell kids to bring it with them because it is a lost opportunity if someone asks for it and you don't have it on you. Sometimes it can jumpstart an interview.

When S1 (non MT) interviewed for colleges, he had some alumni interviewers who seemed to have nothing to say and little profile info. In case like that, whipping out the resume could get the conversation going. And S1 was great at interviews--one of his strongpoints, so if he was quagmired, I felt that it was the interviewer who needed some help. Now this son, S2 can strike up conversation with a fencepost and have it talking back, so it is doubtful he will need any strike up device but you never know. So far the info has been very general and it's more for him to see how the schools and programs are run than for the school to look at him. He has visited some classes and really talked more with the kids than the professors or departement chairs, though what he is doing now may be different.

By Psucat (Psucat) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 07:27 pm: Edit

Dramamommy--
My mom and I went through the same thing with college interviews when we visited each school! We went over what and what not to ask...de ja voo!!
Some questions that we asked were:
-Are freshman able to perform freshman year?
-What kind of performance opportunities are offered? (mainstage, black box, student-run, etc...)
-What is the curriculum like over the course of the four years?
-What sort of scholarship $ is available for students?
-# accepted each year
-How early on are voice lessons offered?

I hope this helps!

By Wct (Wct) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 11:12 pm: Edit

My son got lucky with his CMU interview. There was an alumni that lived less than an hour away from us on the West Coast, (she lives in Los Angeles) who is a working actress. She is still with the same agent that she met at Leagues her senior year I believe, (she graduated in the 80's). My son says it will be forever etched in his memory that when he walked into her home she had a script from ER on her table. She spent a great deal of time with him and he really enjoyed the interview.

By Inkyblb (Inkyblb) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 11:14 pm: Edit

Dramamommy -

There was a great post about questions to ask a while back - not sure on which part# - I'm losing track, there are so many now! It was given out by the University of Michigan and consisted of about 15-20 questions to ask in evaluating MT programs -might be helpful!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 11:36 pm: Edit

I think it was fairly recent and in part nine of this thread. I printed it out for my daughter and thought it was a good list.

Susan

By Sarahsmom (Sarahsmom) on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 11:57 pm: Edit

These are anxious days waiting for the mail to come with the results!!

AllthatJazz70 - you asked about Marymount Manhattan - my daughter got a letter of acceptance to the Dept last week, and to the school some months ago. She was accepted to the BA Theatre Arts with MT concentration program. The different programs may send out at different times.

DJR - can you say how you heard about your daughter getting into Emerson? - you said it was a round-about way. My daughter is anxious to hear from this school as she was deferred from Early Action and has been communicating with the admissions dept for several months since.

I notice that several people have heard from Ithaca. So far no word from Ithaca here, I hope that is not a bad sign.

Anyone hear yet from NYU - Steinhardt?

Good luck to everyone over the next few weeks.

By Nickdad (Nickdad) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 01:16 am: Edit

jrmom: Hi... About my "schools that spend time with the student"....

I have found some schools to be in a rush like a factory assembly line. I know there have discussions on this but CCM is my mind was the worst. So impersonal and rude. At the end of our sons audition, instead of taking the time to ask a revelant questions, he was told that "CCM is the best school for MT training and that they accept very few. Do you understand that?"

Come on..what is this this crap. CCM is NOT and never will be the end all of MT training. From the moment we walked in, we encountered unfriendly and unhelpful people. We had to ask three different people where the bathroom was till we got an answer.

The best audition process we found was Oklahoma City University. They took at least 15 minutes talking to my son, asking him about the song, his background, what he thought he would get from studying there and...suprisingly...what he thought he could bring to OCU. He was so pleased that they were honest and straight forward and accomodating. He didn't feel rushed or like he had to speed up his answers so another person could come in.

In short, we were thrilled upon his acceptance and know that OCU is one of the best kept secrets of MT training. Especially since it is cheaper than most other schools with big reps. Plus two nice scholarships can't hurt!

Also, the school had the best, most colorful, and helpful mailing information. If you have not seen the video CD of the school...get one. I thought it was a movie documentary!

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 06:48 am: Edit

Thanks to everyone, esp nickdad, who answered my question about where the audition experience was good and where not. Very interesting, indeed.

I copied the list of questions (I think from UM) and can post it if anyone wants it again.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 07:48 am: Edit

Has anyone here auditioned/interviewed for the programs at SUNY Fredonia or Buffalo? If so I"d love to hear your impressions (on anything).

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 09:46 am: Edit

Since a couple of you have asked, here's my post again:

I thought I'd share some information I received from the University of Michigan. They hand out an excellent paper to prospective students with questions to ask in evaluating MT programs. Here they are:

1. What kind of degree is offered? BFA? BA? (These 2 degrees are philosophically quite different.) Is the BFA designed specifically for MT, or just for theatre in general?
2. How large is the program? Where do the students come from? What is the make-up of the student body? Does the size of the university have an impact on the program?
3. What is the response of current students? Is the environment at the school supportive, creative, stimulating? Do casting policies for productions seem fair and ethical? (It is particularly useful to speak with seniors and graduates.) Does the program have a philosophical approach to education/training which is clearly stated to the students?
4. Where are the graduates working?
5. How large are the classes, especially those which are performance related?
6. What is the faculty/student relationship? Ratio? Do the students primarily have faculty members as teachers, or graduate assistants?
7. How many musicals are presented each year? What are the casting policies? How are the shows chosen? What are examples of past productions?
8. Does the school promote new works?
9. Do the students have opportunities to be in plays as well as musicals? What about opera, dance concerts, films, and recitals?
10. Do the students have the opportunity to perform in theatres of differing sizes (opera house to "black box") and differing styles (proscenium to in-the-round)?
11. Are the students taught specifically about the field as a profession, and how to go about making a living after they graduate? (Equity, agents, casting directors, audition techniques, commercial and non-profit theatres, etc.)
12. How well do the music department and the theatre department cooperate? Dowes the school have a dance department? (Almost always, the real success of a musical theatre program lies at the core of the inter-disciplinary relationship of these three areas.)
13. Does the faculty work professionally away from the school?
14. How often does the school bring in professionals to work with or speak to the students?
15. Does the school have a cut or review policy? What are the standards a student must maintain in order to remain in the program, and how is this monitored?
16. How complete is the school's library of musical theatre resource materials? (Songs, scores, scripts, vocal books, etc., are often rare, unpublished, or out-of-print.)
17. Is the program of department firmly established? How long has it been in existence? How is it regarded by people in the profession, such as casting directors and agents?

By Peggy (Peggy) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 09:51 am: Edit

I saw that someone had heard from Otterbein. Is anyone else still waiting? Letters were supposed to go out last Wednesday . . .

Peg

By Limelighter (Limelighter) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 01:32 pm: Edit

So I go to to NC School of the Arts, im a senior in HS in the drama program. Myself and a fellow classmate were just excepted to the UofMichigan Musical Theatre program. Is this a good thing?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 01:41 pm: Edit

congratulations....of course it is good...in that it is a very well regarded musical theater program! Is it a good thing for you? Only you can answer that in terms of preferences you have. I am not sure why you are asking if it is a good thing as I assume you looked into the programs you applied to and visited. Did you have a list of favorites?

That is a great accomplishment and good luck deciding on your program for next year!

Susan

By Nanners20 (Nanners20) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 01:47 pm: Edit

HAS ANYONE RECEIVED THERE MAIL TODAY AND IF SO ANYTHING FROM CMU?

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 02:25 pm: Edit

I got my mail, and nothing from CMU yet. I'm guessing it'll be Thursday or Friday before I hear... before anyone does for that matter. US Mail is sloooow these days. I recently sent something to Chicago (which is only a 2.5 hour drive from here) Priority 2-3 day mail, and it arrived 6 days later. Therefore, I'm not counting on anything until late in the week. it'd be nice to know tomorrow though.

By Wct (Wct) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 02:32 pm: Edit

I posted this today on the Carnegie Mellon thread at College Confidential. I hope this helps here too. It appears that if "your letter" went out on Monday you should be able to check online with your bio ID and get your answer on Thursday.

I found the info below on the Carnegie Mellon Undergraduate message board:
(Question)
On the website it states that the decision will come out from March 15-April 15. Is there a specific date when certain schools inside Carnegie Mellon start sending out their decision or will they just start sending them out between now and the 15th? And when will the decisions become available online?
(Answer)
There is no specific date that the decisions will be mailed. We send them out in "batches", so you may receive your letter at any time during that period. Decisions are available online 3 days after the letter was mailed.


The quickest way to retrieve your BioID if you have forgotten it or never received one is to call our Office of Undergraduate Admissions at (412) 268-2082. Our hours are M-F 8:30am-5pm EST.


To look at postings on the CMU Undergrad Message Board go to the web addresss below. At the bottom right click on "messages":
http://www.cmu.edu/enrollment/admission/

By Ayam (Ayam) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 04:40 pm: Edit

PSUcat-

when i auditioned at Elon,I found everyone there to be very responsive and friendly, which is nice, considering some of the stoic faces i auditioned for during the past few months. I didn't get to sit in on any classes or receive a big speech about the program. However, I did attend the Mystery of Edwin Drood that evening. All the musical theatre majors in the show (all of the principals except one) had excellent vocal technique, and good dance skills. I can only assume that's where a lot of emphasis is placed in the actual program.

I hope this helps!

~ A Yam

By Mtpop (Mtpop) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 04:55 pm: Edit

New User!! Musical theater is definitely where my son (now a jr.) is headed. Looking at schools in Texas and Oklahoma. I know OCU is great. What is the word on Texas State, Sam Houston and OU? He's a gifted singer/actor, but not a dancer. How important is that component to the auditions?

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 07:21 pm: Edit

No news from CMU til probably Thurs or Fri...
~Cait

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 07:58 pm: Edit

Jrmom,

My daugher liked SUNY Buffalo very much. She liked the kids, the program, and the facilities. Heavy emphasis on dance. The dance B.F.A. is a more established program than the M.T.The head of the program was delightful, well-informed and understanding. She really understood the applicants. Adminstrative office was terrific. We should say that we had the opportunity to see a video of their past performances and frankly, we weren't overwhelmed.

Fredonia- Facilities were good. Very little else impressed us. Seemed to be classically oriented.
Disorganized interview process. Left us very cold.

By Psucat (Psucat) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 08:09 pm: Edit

A yam--

I auditioned last year (I'm now a frosh at PSU for MT) so I was just curious to see what you thought. I also thought that the faculty was very nice and not intimidating, like others. I sang "Rags" from RAGS and they actually did the production earlier that year. One of the faculty members that was present in the audition played "Father" and sang the beginning of the song when I started singing! It was startling but we had a good laugh and I started over (this time he didn't interrupt :o) ) They made the atmosphere very relaxed. I am glad you had a good experience as well!

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 09:32 pm: Edit

Mtpop--

On this board, I have heard good things about Sam Houston and bad things about OU. Another place to consider is University of North Texas. I'm a senior right now, and there is about a 90% chance I'll be going there next year (unless pigs fly and I get into CMU *LOL*). UNT has an MT BFA.

Actually, that reminds me...after I post this I'm going to do my long-overdue UNT post.

Shauna -- who has summer stock auditions in a week and just lost her voice from a cold! Aaaaaaaahhhhhh...

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 10:02 pm: Edit

Shauna,

Get better fast!!

Did you read something bad about OU on this board? I did a search and can't find anything bad about OU. What did you read?

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 10:16 pm: Edit

ALL ABOUT UNT, BABY (about a month late)!

Well, OK. UNT is located in Denton, about a half hour north of Dallas. When we went, it was snowing. Beautiful white snow everywhere. My dad and I got there a little early and decided to explore. The campus seemed really pretty, although you couldn't tell much from the snow. The students that happened to be out and about on a Saturday mid-morning were really friendly. There were a couple of pranksters around, though: a couple of guys in the back of a pickup that were driving around nailing people with snowballs. They got me twice. :-)

Once I got into the building, I managed to sneak a peek inside the theatre. While it wasn't enormous, it seemed perfectly adequate. There was a board in the lobby that had a bunch of auditions on it, and it looked like the school encouraged people to perform outside of the school. As UNT is so near Dallas -- and judging from the number of auditions on the board -- there seemed to be plenty of quality opportunities to do so.

I was the first scheduled audition. While the program doesn't currently have admissions auditions, these auditions were for departmental scholarships. We were to do two of the following: a song, a dance, or a monologue. It was really, really, low-key. I was more dressed-up than the faculty members were. *L* The professor came down from his office and ushered me into a side room. I'm not quite sure what it was; I think it might have been an old dance room. He let my dad sit in on the audition (I forgot to tell my dad that parents aren't supposed to ask to sit in, but he did and they let him!). There were two faculty members there; and they had my entire application file on the table in front of them. I did my song and my monologue and was in and out.

The more interesting part came later when I spoke to some of the people exactly how the program worked. To be perfectly honest, the woman I spoke to on the phone seemed to have no idea what was going on with the program whatsoever, and she was the person I reached when I asked to speak to someone in the musical theatre department. What I managed to gather from her was that one signs up for the MT BFA when they enroll their freshman year. After their sophomore year, they must audition to continue in the program. After putting me on hold to ask someone else, she said the program was so new that they (or at least she) didn't have statistics for their retention rate. I'm not sure if this means that this is the first year they're doing the BFA or what, and I've been procrastinating calling back and getting some detailed information about exactly what the coursework is like.

They put on four shows per year, I think. I think they are half straight plays, half musicals, and the musicals are done in conjunction with the opera program. This -- plus the fact that UNT is known for its music program -- leads me to believe that it is very classically based.

You can find a lot of sample coursework for an MT BFA here:

http://www.unt.edu/catalogs/2002-03/udancetheatre.html#bfadegreereq

However, it is poorly worded and doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It appears that one may take concentrations in acting, singing, or dancing, and these concentrations take effect during the junior and senior years. I guess you get that concentration by taking certain electives.

OK...I think that's basically it!

Shauna

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 10:22 pm: Edit

Mtmommy and Mtpop--

Read Momkallie's post a little over halfway down the page on Part 7. I will quote her: "OU is..sorry to say...rather a joke. Nice facilities but we were very unimpressed with the knowledge and ability of several professors. They loved to tell us they only accept "10" students each year, but we met about 22 freshmen MT students on our vist..so you go figure that out!"

Shauna

By Katiem (Katiem) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 10:39 pm: Edit

Hey Shauna,
I was just wondering what summer stock audition you were going on? I can understand if you don't want to relay the info but I've been trying to find summer stock auditions for months. I would greatly appreciate it if you helped a sister out. Otherwise good luck on Carnegie Mellon!
All the Best,
Katie

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 11:22 pm: Edit

Shauna--

Thanks for the OU info from Part 7. You're right--that doesn't sound very promising. Is the scholarship you got at UNT the departmental one? Do you know if the professors who held your audition were "MT" ones--or was one voice and one drama or something? I'm just wondering if the department is blended into its own--or if it's still operating as separate drama, vocal, dance. We're (my d and I) anxiously awaiting info on UNT next year from you if you go there.

We checked out SMU (no MT degree) which is near there, I think, to see about putting together a theatre major with vocal performance and dance minors. The theatre and dance look strong, but it would be a music minor with private voice lessons (as opposed to a vocal performance minor). I looked up LA auditions for the three departments--no cohesion at all. The music department doesn't even do an LA audition. The drama and dance are in different months!

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 11:38 pm: Edit

Mtmommy--

I don't know if I got the departmental scholarship yet. The scholarship I did get was an academic one. I'm not sure exactly what the specialty of the MT professors at my audition were...but I do know they were both involved in the musical theatre program. (You'll have to forgive me for that; at that point I was SO jet-lagged I was just in a daze.) The department is called "Dance and Theatre Arts" so I think the program is pretty blended. However, it sounds like voice is a little more separate (the opera stuff).

My mom went to SMU and I checked out the same thing. I just don't think it would work.

Katie--

I will email you. :-)

Shauna

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 11:48 pm: Edit

Mtmommy, there are negatives to every program, and negative experiences can occur at any program. This site is great in that it brings up details that may not come up in your experience with a school and you can think about how this fits with your perspective of a program.
For instance, many, many kids and parents love the CCM program. And it is very highly regarded among professionals. The quality of instruction is considered among the best of these type of programs. But the cut situation is something that anyone considering this school should consider. It is a risk when entering a program where cuts are built into the process.It is a risk some kids want to take.

I have heard wonderful things about the OCU program. The thing that makes me pause is the location of the school and that I know so little about the university itself. I feel a little bit like that about Hartt school as well. But that is my personal predjudice, and my son does not seem to be bothered by it. He is visiting schools right now, and he found things that bothered him more. He did not like the idea of an all conservatory program. He likes the MT program housed in a university or college rather than a conservatory. He likes a city. When this week ends, hopefully he finds some more things that can narrow down his choices. I am hoping that we can find some schools that serve as safeties of sorts since all of the MT programs are so selective. Perhaps a strong department housed in a college that is not so selective and where an audition is not crucial. Also cobbling together a program from theatre, voice and dance programs is an option. A pain, but it can be done and if the programs are all good, it can be worth a try.

The nice thing about a MT major is that you don't have to worry as much about putting together a program, because it is already done for you. No running around getting permission to combine this class with that or getting a dispensation for crossing departments, a real pain. Shauna, I am glad you got into a school where the curriculum is drawn up and the classes set up so that you don't have to carve out a niche for yourself. Someone knowledgeable about such programs have done so for you already. It just makes it a lot easier.

Have fun checking out the schools and good luck on your auditions. Maybe we shall see you during the audition rounds.

By Katiem (Katiem) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:36 am: Edit

I was also wondering has anyone heard of Chicago College of the Performing Arts. I applied there as a back up school and I got accepted with a $4,000 scholarship. I was wondering if anyone has heard anything about the program. I love Chicago as a city but that's all I really know about it.
Thanks,
Katie

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 08:55 am: Edit

Folks, a new wrinkle. My jr has decided that the prospect of continuing in high school next year is too much - wants to start college sooner but realizes can't apply for early admission. Wants more unstructured time to do local theater, voice, dance, etc. Anyone have any thoughts on doing a homeschool year senior year (while taking English and Chem at a local college and taking math by tutoring)? This kid is miserable in high school and grades are suffering because of it. Is definitely smart enough to take local college classes. help!

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 09:46 am: Edit

Jrmom,

A number of students at my son's high school have taken their senior year classes at the community college, but still graduated with their class at the end of the year. I would check with your school district to see if that is an option.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 09:49 am: Edit

Are there any highschools public or private that have a theater internship program? I know several that have the kid take maybe a few courses in the morning just to get grad requirements out of the way and then the kid goes to a theatre for the rest of the day. Pittsburgh Public theatre offers this program for kids in greater Pittsburgh and many of the schools there integrate their curriculum with them. There are a few here as well. Where do you live? That might be a better option if available. My son's friend got into Tisch from such a program as well as into other MT schools.

The problem with homeschooling is that some schools and states and financial aid programs are sticklers about the paper work. Like you have to have the GRE and in some states they won't let you take it until you are 18 which is a problem if you have a late birthday. Also your SATs will be really important if you homeschool. It also does not look good to dropout and homeschool because the going is getting rough which is the story the transcripts can easily tell. My experience with kids trying to supplement highschool records with comm college courses has been mixed and usually not great. I know that is a different story, however, in California, for instance, so your location is important.

By Mtpop (Mtpop) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 09:55 am: Edit

Shauna - thanks for the input on Sam Houston. UNT is definitely an option, but my son thinks it's too close to home (Dallas). Texas has four schools with MT BFA - Sam Houston, UNT, Texas State and West Texas A&M (no way!). So, does anyone know anything about the program at Texas State (formerly known as Southwest Texas State) in San Marcos.

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 10:19 am: Edit

Jamimom,

You said "My experience with kids trying to supplement high school records with comm college courses has been mixed and usually not great."

I'm just curious what you mean by that. What kind of problems have they had?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 10:58 am: Edit

I have worked with many homeschool kids. What usually happens with these kids is that they supplement their homeschooling by taking community college courses. Which is a natural, easy and logical step. They generally do very well in those courses. I have found that though this is well and good for those kids going on to lower tiered local schools and state schools, the results have not been good for those going on to the more competitive schools.

In general, what the top schools want from homeschoolers is high test scores. Usually in the form of SAT1s and 5 SAT2s. They are not impressed with the Shakespeare course from cc and they cast a jaundiced eye on the math and science courses unless supplemented with SAT2 test scores that are very good. AP test scores are also welcomed. The reason for this given to me for several admissions officere in some selective schools is that the standards vary so widely among community colleges that they find it difficult to assess the material taught. Also what is missing is a component selective colleges find very important; direct comparison with the peer group. Though I know of several homeschooled kid with cc supplements who did get into very top schools, those kids were truly academic superstars with sterling stats and outside activities that were eyepoppers even on these boards. The kids not in that catergory do not do as well if they do not score high on the SATs despite excellent grades in cc courses. I have seen very good students in schools get into excellent colleges despite low test scores much more often than the homeschooled kids.

Empirically, I have found that kids who take the toughest courses at their high school to exhaustion of the program there do much better at elite college admissions than those who start going off to community college to take advanced courses. I would recommend kids who have finished what Physics is available at their highschool to take a strong course at good local college or through a known on line program rather than taking general physics at the local cc.

It is not that these kids have had specific problems as much as they, as a group are not getting the expected results as similar kids going through highschool walking the party line. If you break from the route, you had better do it with excellence and good reason because it certainly is not the easy way out.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 11:02 am: Edit

Thanks everyone for responding. I'm in a bit of panic. Looking forward to next year was complicated enough without adding an unconventional senior year to the mix.

I'm curious too what Janimom meant by a mixed experience with comm college courses.

Thanks for the other options, not available in our area, but started me thinking what else we could cob together that might work. Taking classes in the afternoon and interning in the morning/night at a theater? hmmm...

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 11:37 am: Edit

Janimom,
Thanks for your insights. Actually we have the option of a local comm college or a very good regular 4 yr LA college nearby.

I guess we choose the latter if possible. I've already checked and they will take high school kids' enrollment for classes if there is room.

I think this might be doable. My jr does not aspire to NYU - just wants a very good MT program. Will be applying to MarymountM, SUNY's, Syracuse, Ithaca, Baldwin W. That level.

thanks for the help on this issue.

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 11:42 am: Edit

Jrmom,
I would not advise the homeschool senior year. That senior year is so unbelievably hard as it is. The other posters are right on. It would not look right on the transcript and would decrease your son's chances even further. It would be a red flag.
No matter what school you go to, there is not much unstructured time that your son is needing and those schools want to see that you can make it through your senior year.
Try to find out what it is your son is so unhappy with at school. Being in school productions helps with the social/fitting in needs of school. Maybe he does indeed need to supplement his school day with local theatre, dance and voice, etc. but you can still do that and go to school. Also a tutor would help with his studies and grades.
Good luck. I always tell my child that although she doesn't see high school as necessary to her future career - I tell her its a "game" that she must finish playing to get toward her goal. Also, her senior year, she did not take a 4th year of math (much to everyone's surprise) but that indeed helped with her senior year happiness.
-Mtheatremom

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 11:51 am: Edit

Mtheatremom,
He does that now. Takes usual high school day, is in 2 productions, takes voice, dance etc. Is exhausted and cranky and is saying most of the high school classes are a waste of time. Wants to get going on the career. Is very frustrated. Any advice to keeping him in school, given this picture? thanks so much. PS. this is a real "different drummer" kid, always has been.

By Peggy (Peggy) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Dear Friends,

First, I want to thank you all for your encouragement and support. For sharing your experiences, and for answering the same question over and over again! You've made this trip a lot easier.

Unfortunately, it looks like we're done. Steph got her fourth rejection letter yesterday -- from Otterbein. That was the college we thought she had the best chance of getting into. She still has an audition with UofMich, and we haven't heard from CMU. But after four rejection letters, she doesn't have much hope of getting in anywhere.

Today we start "Plan B". Actually, we have two Plan B's". One is to attend a place like UNT where you don't have to audition quite yet. Or Point Park allows you to take core classes and re-audition next year.

The second is to spend a year majoring in English or French, taking lessons, and decide later if she wants to audition again. Unfortunately, we can't make any decisions on anything yet. The high school musical opens tomorrow, and she has a dance competition on Saturday. Real decisions will have to wait!

There is also a twist that has been thrown in. We have a regional community theater about an hour from here. It's a high level theater -- uses Equity Actors and students from the Preforming Arts high school that's about a hour on the other side of this place. (I wish I had known this high school existed about four years ago!) Anyway, yesterday Steph was offered a part in one of their summer shows. This may be just what she needs to help her figure out what she wants to do with her life.

Thanks again for your friendship. And good luck to your kids. They are very special people, with very special parents!

Peg

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:23 pm: Edit

Peg, a hug for your daughter. And kudos to your for having a good Plan B in place and being so supportive to your daughter through this entire process.

I worry about how next year will go for S. The numbers are what I tend to focus on and they are not good. Your D really applied to an all ivy slate in terms of selectivity.

We are applying to schools that have non audition theatre programs and respectable music programs where S can cobble together something if the all in one does not work out. And I am well aware it is possible. There are many roads to theatre and the MT program path is but one small one. It just makes it easier for the next 4 years to follow a program rather than tailoring a curriculum to ones self. It can also leave more room for business and liberal arts courses that can help in theatre related careers that are not necessarily song and dance scenes. And for opportunities in other venues. I have a good deal of respect for any of these young people who spent senior year preparing and then auditioning while still holding it together at school. I am going to be holding my breath at that aspect of the process with my son.

Good luck. And thank you for your insights. They will help the next round of kids and parents. Please show up and let us know how your daughter is doing next year. And a great big hug to her and you.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:30 pm: Edit

Jamimom,

re: "non audition theatre programs". Where did you find those? I'd like to add a couple to our list as a plan B, too. We might also seriously consider places like Circle in the Square, AADA, etc.

By Inkyblb (Inkyblb) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:40 pm: Edit

Jrmom -

Just wondering if you and your son would or could consider going to a private boarding school for the arts senior year? It was the answer for our son, a junior, who chose this option this year. It's the best thing we ever could have done for him - expensive , but worth every penny. He's happy, and flourishing, getting great academics, and doing what he loves! They have a MT emphasis, and he's getting great acting, and vocal training, and some dance. The best thing is that it is a VERY diverse community, very accepting of everyone, no matter what beat you happen to march to. He has a friend who went as a senior also. Not unusual. If you'd like any more info, feel free to e-mail me, inkyblb@aol.com. Good luck!

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 12:52 pm: Edit

I did not look for them in any one source. I looked for LACs that would be amenable to accepting my son with his miserable academic stats. Going through his prepschools resources and talking to the counselor there gave me some hits too. From there, we checked out the theatre and music programs. We looked at how many kids are in these programs and how many fulltime and parttime faculty are there so we don't end up at a cart and pony show rented out,so to speak. The counselor also gave us some names of schools where having a great theatre profile and resume could bolster his apps a bit even without an audition process. These are schools where the theatre department is aggresive in getting interesting kids and where the adcoms will give the theatre hook a strong hand. Then there are schools that have just theatre auditions where the accept numbers are quite high. We are looking at all of these schools at the moment and are trying to cut them down to a manageable size and making sure they are true safeties for S rather than more reaches. It is so easy to get into that mode--I am always warning people about it and yet can slip into it myself.

Some schools that come to mind are Muhlenburg, Goucher, Wagner, Lawrence, Lehigh (they just built a new complex and are looking to bolster their theatre and other humanities offerings, I hear), Kenyon (a reach though, I 'm afraid) and Fordham. Also Hofstra, Mary washington, American. I am really at the very beginning of all of this. S needs to get the big boys in perspective first and is finding out what he likes in those colleges so I can find matches in schools that are not so selective for drama and music. Will post as I go along this trail. Appreciate any suggestions from any of you.

By Wct (Wct) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 01:56 pm: Edit

Just saw a post on a different thread that someone got an acceptance packet from CMU, (not from the Drama school). Check your mailbox!

By Baymom (Baymom) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 02:09 pm: Edit

One of the biggest things I've learned from this board is not to put all of our eggs in the "MT Iveys" basket. I am just so sorry that many of us are getting this education because of the tough experiences like that of Peggy and her daughter. I have already researched "other" MT programs in our area and there are some fine ones (University of Wisconsin-Steven's Point that has several young alums on Broadway or touring shows right now and Viterbo in LaCrosse, WI). Still not a "lock" but easier than CMU, CCM, etc. There are also good theatre schools around here that don't require an audition (Marquette U for one) except for talent scholarships. I know S is good but not a prodigy - we're going to definitely keep expectations realistic and have a lot of options at the end of the day.

To Peggy and Steph: Although I am a new poster, I have been following your story - my heart goes out to you both and am hoping the right "Plan B" surfaces.

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 04:07 pm: Edit

Jrmom,

One nonaudition school that my daughter applied to was Drake. It does have a B.F.A. program in MT. They do require auditions for some scholarships. I have no idea about the quality of the program. It was recommended to us by our college counselor as our bottome line safety. Had she not had any other acceptances, we would have gone out to take a look.

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 05:35 pm: Edit

Wct,
Do you know where in the country this person (who was accepted/received news)lives?
~Cait

By Noccadad (Noccadad) on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 05:43 pm: Edit

Does anyone have any feedback on the Summer Pre-college program in Musical Theater at CCY, Center for Creative Youth, affiliated with Wesleyan University? Would appreciate any comments!

By Sarahsmom (Sarahsmom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 06:19 am: Edit

Noccadad - my daughter went to CCY in the summer between her freshman and sophomore year (although most of the kids were bet. jr-sr year) - she absolutely adored it. She had been to theater/MT camps for many years, but we saw that this passion was blooming into a real career interest and we wanted her to have a bigger challenge and to test the waters. She totally thrived there. CCY is staffed largely by faculty associated with the Greater Hartford Academy of Performing Arts, the regional arts magnet school. It draws largely from New England and New York students, but many came from all around the country. CCY has arts programs in MT, drama, dance, orchestra, writing, theatre tech and several visual arts programs. The MT program had about 17 kids, and it formed a tight-knit and very supportive grp. They took morning classes together in voice, acting, dance, etc and rehearsed in late afternoons and evenings toward their end of the summer production, which was a terrific musical revue. Afternoon classes were sort of mini-majors, I believe that my daughter took mask-making, and some writing course, but I dont truly recall. The MT faculty was headed by Caroline Kirsch, who was in the original Bdwy production of Chorus Line and Chicago, and she taught them original Fosse choreography. The program ended with audition prep and mock audition. The kids were very close, and spent much of their free time together spontaneously singing in music rooms, etc. The had fun weekend/evening activities - very artsy and campy. My daughter was never happier. We are not current with all the kids, but we do know that of the 4 other kids that my D. still is in close contact with, one went to NYU - Tisch, another to Steinhardt, another to Syracuse, another got an off-Bdwy part and she has been auditioning this year along with my daughter. So while we are not sure if all of the kids continue professional aspirations, we believe that those who did have fared well.

Last summer, between her jr-sr year, my daughter went to CMU. Certainly you've heard a lot about that program in this site. In comparison, CMU is bigger, with less of a core group. She found the environment to be much more intense and competitive, and less supportive than CCY. My daughter profitted enormously from CMU as it further challenged her and refined her skills, and focussed greatly on audition prep. It also toughened her for the tough road of auditions and for the MT life in general. While CCY sealed the deal for her to chose to go on, CMU added the grit and the polish so to speak. I think they are different programs, and both added to her repertoire and confidence, and it was great that she did both in the order that she did. However, she was happier at CCY.

Feel free to contact us for further information.

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 07:19 am: Edit

Dear all,
I've been looking at the unified auditions website for this year (spring 2004), and thinking that it looks like a great way to save time and money on travel next year, especially if one anticipates auditioning at schools from Boston to Ohio.

What's the thinking on auditioning away from campus? Do the kids who do that get less consideration than kids who actually made the effort to get to a real campus and audition on-campus?

Also, if there are 4 schools on the list that one would want to audition for, how do you do 4 auditions in 2 days? I mean time-wise. They must be very short.

jrmom

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 08:15 am: Edit

jrmom--

We found the unified (regional) auditions to be the way to go. And I know that my kid has been accepted into programs that another MT kid from our city , who visited the actual campus audition - did not. It really does come down to whether they feel the student has what they are looking for.

We attended the Chicago auditions and had CCM our first morning, and Boston Conservatory in the afternoon. The following day, U of Miami in the am, and CMU in the afternoon. CMU did take the entire afternoon, but most of them are not that long. CCM was about an hour and a half with a group dance session and then for each audition another 10 - 15 minutes (monologue, 2 partial songs, and few minutes of interview); Boston C. allowed 15 mins./per student. Two a day works well, I know some other kids that were trying to do 3 or more and were feeling a little more stress. The one thing they don't need more of -- so why push it.

We liked this approach, as we had thought rather than flying all over and spending a lot of time and money, we would attend the schools that granted acceptance. Now, we will be making some campus visits to aid in the final decision.

Good luck planning...
mnmom

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 09:06 am: Edit

mnmom,

yes, that's just the approach I was thinking of taking. The chances are so small at any one school, why not wait and see if there are any acceptances and THEN visit the campus of any school that offers a spot.

That's really helpful info, thanks.

jrmom

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 09:36 am: Edit

In light of previous discussion on "cut" policies, this from CMU's handbook is interesting. I appreciate the way the policy, and the student's options, are spelled out exactly.

jrmom

*****************
http://www.cmu.edu/cfa/drama/Handbook/underhandbook.html#policy

DROP FROM THE SCHOOL OF DRAMA

This is an action imposed by the School of Drama in the case of any student whose progress in the professional training offered is considered insufficient to warrant continuing in the current professional field of study in this college. This action terminates the studentís enrollment in the School of Drama, but is not intended to prejudice admission to another school or college of the university, or to another institution.

This academic action allows the student three choices:

1. Transfer to another Carnegie Mellon University department/school. A student must contact that department/school of choice to discuss possible transfer.

2. Request for Transitional Student status in the College of Fine Arts for one semester. A student must make an appointment with the Associate Dean in the Office of the Dean of the College of Fine Arts to discuss this option.

3. Withdraw from Carnegie Mellon University. An application for Withdrawal form is forwarded with the action letter.

In the event that the student so advised does not, by the effective date of this action, follow through with one of the options listed above, this action will be changed to Drop at the discretion of the faculty concerned without additional College Council action.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 11:18 am: Edit

All colleges have some sort of cut policy in all departments in the event the student is not performing up to university standards. This is true in all endeavors, academics, music, theatre, athletics. Even "no cut" programs ultimately have cuts for cause.

The real issue in evaluating a school or a program is in how the policies are used more than what they say. You can get identical wording from two schools and find that one school rarely cuts and then does so only after repeated warnings and severe transgressions or lack of interest whereas another may over accept with the intention of cutting down to size or what they want in a group. The wording can even be more ominous for the institution with the more liberal policies. Each student needs to find out how the cut policies are actually used in the programs and the actual experience in the last several years. That is the case with any attrition statistics. The reason is extremely important as it can be for going to greener pastures or because the school cut them or because the students are not happy with the program and left. The implications of those reasons are quite different.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 11:25 am: Edit

Yes, that is the kind of policy that most would not argue against. Any school needs a policy that lets them keep a child from continuing on if doing poorly. I like a policy like this one that has a "warning" of sorts built into it cause then there is a transitional semester to allow the student to show improvement. I would have to hear just what behaviors or grades would warrant such a warning but I could see some things that would fit such an action.

The only thing I do not get with the CCM one (which is not that clear to me, I admit) is how the cut is before freshman year ends, it seems as though their assessment of your talent might warrant the cut as opposed to just not working up to par, and that such a large number of kids get cut, considering how selective it is just to get in so kids had to be mighty good to get in in the first place. Again, no knocking of it, just trying to understand it. My child is definitely interested in looking into CCM and likely applying. But the little bit I am learning makes me think that the cut policy at CCM differs than at some other schools, such as Boston Conservatory which has more of a warning or transitional time like this CMU policy has built in. That seems a bit more appropriate to me in an educational setting, as well as more typical of what you might find in college in general (not just in theater programs). I am saying that having taught college myself. It does seem unusual to see so many students in CCM not get to stay til graduation, considering that the pool of students admitted are very strong in the first place. The graduation rate seems more akin to a school that takes anyone where you often see many kids not making it til graduation.

Susan
PS...I hope this post is seen as a discussion or attempt to understand different policies rather than be for or against a school cause clearly I am NOT against CCM as my kid is very interested in the school!

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 11:38 am: Edit

Yes, programs need a cut policy because there unfortunately are always some highly talented kids who end up as slackers. Detrimental slackers that can impede the program and others in it when they make no effort to work, are disruptive and often do not even bother to show up. Those kids should be cut and there has to be a policy in place to get rid of them. I don't think any of us are against such cut policies.

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 11:49 am: Edit

Where have you found information on how many kids are cut at CCM? I am interested/curious. I searched on their site and found their graduating class of 2003 was 12 students, and it showed a previous picture of them as freshman, and there were thirteen. Does that mean that only one did not finish that had started?

Does anyone have any numbers of these cuts?

Would appreciate any info you may have....
Mnmom

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 11:52 am: Edit

I guess we would need to know if that picture was taken after freshman cuts. LOL

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 01:10 pm: Edit

I don't have the numbers of cuts. I only know what I keep reading on this forum or what others keep saying, which is not solid fact that I can quote you. If I recall prior posts, I thought a father of a past CCM student talked of a third of the freshman class not graduating with the rest. Also I thought they take about 20 freshman, no? Not sure, so don't quote me. So, if the senior class picture had a dozen kids, that seems less than the numbers that matriculate freshman year. The talk of this cut policy during freshman year almost implies they are talking of more than just one student or it would not likely be such a source of discussion. I mean most of us parents would agree that colleges have to have a way to rid the school of students who are getting poor grades, or slacking off, or not following rules of conduct or something along those lines. Even those kids should be given an opportunity for warning and a semester to improve. The CCM cut thing that people seem to be talking of on here (again, I clearly do not have the facts, that is why I would love to learn more) seems to be referring to talent reviews, not so much necessarily other things, and apparently there is no semester of warning/transition to improve but you are just out midstream during freshman year as a student on here says happened to her. Again, maybe there is just cause. It is just good to know as much as possible when applying to a school so there are fewer suprises. This program is supposed to be intense and my daughter tends to like serious intensive programs so that is why she is looking into it. I definitely am not knowledgeable enough to discern the cut policy issues with the school. The program itself is very highly regarded in the field, in any case.

It does seem a bit scary to contemplate that after all it took to get into CCM to think that you could be out in the middle of freshman year and not have a program to attend when clearly the student had to have merit just to get into such a selective program in the first place and likely could have gone somewhere else. That part does give me jitters, and it might be ok if we knew the types of things that would constitute letting a student go....if it is grades, behavior, slacking off in seriousness, it might be well justified. If it is simply an assessment of talent, that is harder to comprehend cause the audition was meant to discern that, as well as the application, and after that, the program is meant as a training grounds. I dunno, but it is all food for thought.

And remember, this is just a message board, albeit full of great first hand accounts (which my post is NOT) and so it is very helpful but must be taken as just various opinions or persepectives. One must look into the programs on campus and ask pertinent questions. I would not hesitate to look into CCM no matter what I read on here. We are going to do that. Still this is an interesting discussion of various perspectives!
Susan

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 01:27 pm: Edit

This web site was passed on to me...some of you may find it interesting.
www.geocities.com/Broadway/Mezzanine/4089/ -

Gives a few tips about auditioning, schools, head shots etc....

Anyone heard from CMU, yet?

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Now that we're back to the CCM "cut" situation I'll replay what happened to my daughter's class. Keep in mind, this is the experience of only one class, but it may be instructive. The freshman class was 17 students. Of those, about 5 kids elected not to return for the sophomore year. None of these were cut by the school, but left for their own reasons to attend other schools or take theatical jobs. There were however two kids who did return for the sophomore year who were on notice that they were on thin ice with the program; one for inadequate progress and one for attitude. During the sophomore year the two kids who were on notice did get cut from the program and a couple more left of their own accord, mostly to take jobs in the theatre. That class graduated something like 15 students, with approximately half or a little more being from the original group of freshman and the remainder were transfers, mostly coming in as sophomores.

There is a formal process of evaluation that occurs and kids are not cut from the program with no warning (with the potential exception of severe behavioral problems). Every student is evaluated in an audition setting towards the end of each quarter, with the first two evaluations used to give the student feedback on their progress leading up to the third and final evaluation each year. If a cut is to be made, it is based on the final evaluation of the school year.

Many of the contributors, or maybe it's just the more vocal ones, to this thread paint a very negative picture of the CCM program. But keep in mind that the program is not structured to cater to most people, and the majority of the negative comments come from those who were (a) not accepted to the program, (b)attributed to people who either left or were cut from the program, or (c) in rare cases from people who were both talented and fortunate enough to be accepted to several programs and had the opportunity to pick among several elite schools. However, the one contributor who both attended CCM and was cut from the program had nothing but good things to say (go figure). To put things in perspective, keep in mind that most if not all those who are accepted to CCM have received numerous acceptances and have the luxury of being able to choose among many training opportunities. However, even within such a group of talented and motivated kids there are those who do not ultimately make it through the program. But, those who do graduate generally reap the rewards of their success. Right now, I believe something like 12 or 13 of the 15 graduates from my daughter's class are engaged in successful theatrical careers . . . . and the one kid who was cut for attitude way back at the end of the sophomore year is also successfully running his own production company.

By Wct (Wct) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 01:41 pm: Edit

I tell you, I am getting worse than the kids on the wait to hear from CMU!!!!!! I have been checking this site all morning, (I am in California) to see if anyone has heard. It appears that students are getting envelopes on the East, and areas near there, yesterday and today for colleges other than Drama. I have not heard about anyone getting anything from Drama yet. The suspense is really getting to me!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 02:13 pm: Edit

Thanks Mtdad for explaining it more thoroughly. It does sound more fair with your specific details when you add that there is more than one review and the types of things that cuts are made over, and not simply talent. I am also glad that you clarified that the majority of kids who did not stay with the original class of freshmen, left of their own accord. That paints a different picture than previous posts about a third of the matriculating freshmen not there at your D's graduation. So, thanks for the first hand information.

Certainly it is of no question the reputation of the program and the success of its graduates. Also it is interesting to read that kids transferred into the program. I thank you for that information cause that is exactly what is needed...real info. not speculation. The discussion is worthwhile and it is best to garner as much first hand information as possible. I also think it is ok if others offer perspectives. People then can make their own decisions about the type of program that is the right fit for them.

Susan

By Noccadad (Noccadad) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 02:32 pm: Edit

Sarahsmom, Thankyou very much for your comments. The staff at CCY has been fantastic and it is among the programs D is applying to including CMU.She is a sophomore so your thoughts were very useful for us parents in considering this summers options versus next.

To all posters, you guys are great! Your committment, passion, and candor in participating here is a god send to the kids and to parents facing the task of assisting our kids in the important process of planning and choosing a college and a life in the Performing Arts.

By Nanners20 (Nanners20) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 02:34 pm: Edit

Wow can we be so done with the topic of CCM and people being released from programs? These post are marathon posts. Anyone hear from CMU or Cap21 or the dance program at NYU?

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 03:53 pm: Edit

A little info on CMU. A friend, who's son auditioned for MT at CMU couldn't stand the wait anymore and called. They told her his letter had been mailed today, and they are mailing in bunches each day, having begun on Monday. All deparments, too. Mailings should continue into next week. So....the wait continues.

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 04:44 pm: Edit

I keep reading about TISCH film applicants getting those Sunday/Weekend In The Square invitations. I'm wondering if Theatre applicants are part of that whole thing... hmm.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 06:18 pm: Edit

For CMU: I called once to see when they would be online...they said Wednesday. I called today to see what happened, and they said Saturday. So who knows?

Shauna

By Monkey (Monkey) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 06:28 pm: Edit

Acavallo,
Yes, Sunday in the Square invitations have been sent to NYU theatre applicants.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 06:31 pm: Edit

The cut issue lies at the heart of musical theatre itself, I believe. One of the reasons to get an MT BFA is for the security it offers while training for four years; otherwise, why wouldn't MT prospectives train on their own and audition, audition, audition? So the idea of investing in a degree program and having it aborted involuntarily defeats a major purpose of the education itself. On the other hand, musical theatre as a "career" is a "reward" for the best talent most well-developed--what would be the purpose of graduating countless hopefuls who have no chance of "making it"? I do NOT mean that anyone who gets cut has no chance; I am looking at this from a forest (rather than tree) view. We are sort of trying to have it both ways with an MT BFA, but I can see that it is not comparable to a bachelor's in engineering or history or accounting or nursing. I want my daughter to have security for those four years, but how can I provide that for her? By sending her to a school that is so weak it doesn't have to cut? Imagine you're the MT department chair and you have 30 spots for MT majors and only five opening. At the auduitions you identify at least ten hopefuls who are more talented than a couple you already have in the program. What do you do? Send those hopefuls away? Make them feel like they aren't good enough for your program?

Also, I was told that the reason the schools keep the numbers down so much is because the training for MT is so great because of all the private voice classes. The schools supposedly can't afford to take on more students. I am in a field that was saturated with far more graduates with graduate degrees than could ever find jobs. I don't think that's any better solution. I think that's a truly valid reason for keeping the numbers down, although it's certainly a worry to me for my daughter.

I didn't bring this up as anything re CCM. I'm talking about cuts in general here.:)

By Nanners20 (Nanners20) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 07:10 pm: Edit

Monkey
I called NYU and talked directly to admissions and the tisch dept. and they said no invites have been sent to the theatre dept.

By Nanners20 (Nanners20) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 07:22 pm: Edit

Has anyone heard anything from Boston Conservatory? I DON'T HEAR ANYONE TALKING ABOUT THIS SCHOOL.

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Nanners-

You are right, it is kinda strange - because there really hasn't been much talk about Boston Cons., which is supposedly one of the top schools for MT.

In fact, we are waiting for news from them, but have heard it will be about the first of April.

I think they select a somewhat larger number of freshman for their program.....who out there auditioned for them?

Does anybody know anyone in the program and have any info to share?

Thanks......

By Limelighter (Limelighter) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 08:32 pm: Edit

Why doesnt anyone talk about UofMichigans Musical Theatre program? Isnt that suppose to be one of the top programs in the country??

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 08:35 pm: Edit

To whom it may concern,
Concerning schools who cut students who SUPPOSEDLY have no chance of making it, I have a name for you:
Juliana Hansen
She was cut from CCM because she wasn not talented enough... ahahaha
She is currently understudying Millie in the tour of Thoroughly Modern Millie.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 08:37 pm: Edit

Nanners20,
All I can say is that someone I know who applied to Tisch for Drama has received an invitation to the Sunday in the Square weekend. It arrived on Monday.

By Wct (Wct) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 09:00 pm: Edit

Nanners20-
Just today as I was in a music store buying a vocal score, I ran into a mom I knew who's son went to school with my son his sophmore year. Her son is at Boston Conservatory studying Musical Theater, (a very talented boy). In fact she had just flown in this morning because she went to see him perform last night! Her son is very happy at the school and is already performing, (he is a freshman there). She said that he does carry one liberal arts course per semester and the rest of the classes relate to musical theater.

I know another boy there who got in this year. He graduated a year before my son but waited to audition for Boston Conservatory almost year after his graduation. He too is very happy. Another graduate from our high school left Boston Conservatory after his freshman year because he landed a lead in a national tour and decided he wanted that experience. I have heard only positive things about the program from students I know who are/have attended there.

A couple of our students at the high school are still waiting to hear if they have been accepted.

By Ayam (Ayam) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 09:38 pm: Edit

i got the letter from emerson today.
accepted to the college, rejected from drama department.

i'm not really surprised, i think i may have appeared too "polished".

i still have yet to hear from CMU, USC, Bard, Elon and NYU.

~ A Yam

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 10:33 pm: Edit

I, too, am waiting to hear from Boston Conservatory. I know that they also have a "cut" policy. I don't know any specifics but I do know that even though they are very stong in dance, emphasis during the trial is mainly based on voice and acting ability. I was told this during my audition... they didn't go into complete detail. The student is given a trial, then a probation period, and finally a re-trial at the conclusion of the semester. I think someone mentioned something about that previously on this post, but for those of you who didn't read it, here it is again. :)

Good luck to everyone during this crazy emotional time.

angie

By Nanners20 (Nanners20) on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 10:40 pm: Edit

Thank you everyone for the info about Boston! It is really nice to hear people out there waiting to hear from them. I know a few people there that love the program. They called about 6 weeks ago saying that hadn't received my recommendations and they need them ASAP and had the people fax them to them. Then I also received a letter wanting my parents 2003 tax return so I am hoping this is a good sign! They said by April 1st we all should hear!

By Waitingforever (Waitingforever) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:18 am: Edit

MY WAIT IS FINALLY OVER! I just found out online that I have been accepted to CARNEGIE MELLON DRAMA!!!! I auditioned in november, and have had to wait all this time! Thank the Lord for His awesome blessings!!!

Good luck to all who are still waiting! My prayers are DEF with u!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:18 am: Edit

Good luck to all of you waiting on decisions! I have a senior waiting for decisions that all come out about April 1, but not for theater.

Anyway, with my daughter who is looking into college musical theater programs, Boston Conservatory is high on her list of interest and we have plans to visit in one month. I do not know any current students there. In past years, I have seen many summer shows at a professional theater in NH and there are a lot of cast members in those shows from Boston Conservatory (current students) and they have always been very good!

I think we do hear about UMich on this forum. There is a mom whose daughter was recently admitted there who posts often here. We hope to visit there in fall as it is also one of my D's faves at this juncture.

We are going to visit NYU/Tisch this Monday, so maybe I can write about that when we get back, though it will be a big week on college admissions.

Susan

By Nickdad (Nickdad) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:19 am: Edit

Thanks for the in depth CCM cut info, but I am still not convinced that it is an appropriate thing to do. People are cut because they are deemed not up to "their" standards? And let's see how many cut CCM people are out there making it..no thanks to CCM. The person above who mentioned Juliana Hansen in TMM is correct. You should read her journal as she tells it very straight forward what CCM was like and about her dislike for them after being cut as not being talented enough for CCM. Hmmmmm..make on think.

And the fact that CCM has people working in the industry doesn't mean a great deal. Look at any other major MT non cut university and you'll see just the same amount of alumni working.

By Brdwydiva05 (Brdwydiva05) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:36 am: Edit

Hi! I'm new to this message board:

katiem-
One of my very good friends is currently a sophmore MT at Roosevelt(Chicago College of the Performing Arts). She is totally in love with the school. THe facility itself did not impress me, but the instructors and students there were so friendly and helpful. The school is really good because they offer a lot of opportunities within Chicago. When I auditioned in Chicago I went with my friend to see a production of "A Little Night Music" at The Chicago Shakespeare Theatre. Five or six of the Musical Theatre kids were non-speaking characters featured in the play as part of an internship. The school also allows its students to audition for certain productions in Chicago. They do not allow the freshman to audition and the faculty usually appoints who they feel is ready. My friend's boyfriend just appeared in a professional production in Chicago. The school also works with the students to count these experiences as their performance credits for the semester.
Hope that helps!

For those of you expecting replies:
I'm waiting to hear from Otterbein, Boston Conservatory, CMU, Emerson (regular decision), and Roosevelt

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:46 am: Edit

Waitingforever-
May I be the first to congratulate you!!! I did send you a personal email. It sounds like CMU may be your first choice for Drama. We would love to hear what your audition experience was like. Whatever you are willing to share will be greatly appreciated by those on this board. If you chose CMU I will look forward to meeting you during one of my visits there to see my son.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 02:00 am: Edit

Waitingforever...oops, I missed your fantastic news above as my post was going up when yours did, and I just discovered yours! Well, you can change your posting name now, lol! That is an awesome accomplishment given how hard it is to get in and so many talented people aspiring to gain admission!! Celebrate!!! Congratulations to you!
Susan

By Katiem (Katiem) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 02:49 am: Edit

Brdwydiva05,
Thanks so much for the info about Chicago's program! It's nice to know that someone else has heard of it. Thanks!
...
The CMU wait is killing me! Congratulations Waitingforever (or now not waiting forever.) I'm so proud of you!

Katie

By Janenw (Janenw) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 02:53 am: Edit

Has anyone attended Cap 21's 6 week summer program? (The one that requires an audition and does not provide housing) My D (16) was accepted and is curious about how many kids attend. We would have to rely on friends and possibly rent an apt as well - which means one of us as a chaperon. She would really like to stay in the dorms - but you must be 17.

Emily? You probably get out of the city for the summer
- but do you have any feedback? Any one else attended this program?

By Mtmomtok (Mtmomtok) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 08:28 am: Edit

Nickdad,
Where can I find this journal about Juliana Hanson?

Janenw,
I posted a while back asking info on Cap21's summer program, didn't get any feedback.
I found out late about the program, still going to apply though. How was the audition process?
Any info would be greatly apprecited. Thanks.

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 08:31 am: Edit

Check your online status at CMU. We received good news, also. Thanks to "Waitingforever" we discovered the acceptance!

Wishing everyone news they want to hear...

By Peggy (Peggy) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 09:42 am: Edit

Two questions --

Has anyone ever made a list of non-audition MT programs, kinda as a back-up?

Secondly, has anyone ever heard of the MT program at Milliken University in Chicago?

Thanks,

Peg

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 09:52 am: Edit

Mnmom....wow, that is great news and congrats to your child!

Peggy, I do not have such a list but I want to say I admire your support of your daughter as you seek out alternatives and I just know something is going to work out. It is very difficult when most of these MT programs are what one would call "reach" schools that you cannot count on admission.

There are alot of theater majors and opportunities at colleges that do not have BFA in MT though and do not require auditions.

Another option might be to enter a program like Circle in the Square in NYC for two years....it is a certificate program where she can train in musical theater, and if she wants move on and transfer into a four year program. My D's voice teacher here in VT, teaches at Circle in the Square in NYC midweek. He has brought faculty up to VT for workshops and they are really good. Thought I would mention that option to you.


Good luck...keep us posted.

Susan

By 5pants (5pants) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 09:59 am: Edit

Peg,

Millikin is in Decatur, about 2 hours from Chicago. I have heard they have program that cuts students each semester during the first year.

By 5pants (5pants) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 10:02 am: Edit

University of Minnesota has a wonderful theatre program...that Univesity allows you to create your own major. That was our backup plan, but my guys got into their BFA MT programs.

5pants

By Peggy (Peggy) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 10:18 am: Edit

Susan --

Thank you for the suggestion. "Circle in the Square" looks like the kind of thing I'm looking for. Unfortunately, the whole world is on hold until next week. Musical opened last night. For the life of me, I don't know why they have to have an 8:00 show on Thursday :)

Peg

By Nanners20 (Nanners20) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 10:25 am: Edit

Hey all still waiting to hear from CMU - i just got off the phone with them and they were EXTREMELY nice. My daughter auditioned for MT and they said there is still no decision on her. They are still reviewing her. She is a tough one because her talent definitely out weighs her stats. private high school in Cali with 1120 SAT's and a 3.3 and only 1 AP class in french. So this is totally a long shot for us but you never know unless you try. They also told me they have been sending out acceptance and rejection letters all week.

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 11:10 am: Edit

Mnmom-
Congratulations on being accepted to CMU ! Is CMU your child's first choice? Is the acceptance for MT or Drama?

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 11:18 am: Edit

Nanners-
CMU's decision for the Drama school is based not so much on academics as it is for majors in the other colleges. We were told it is 85-90 percent based on the audition. Good Luck!

By Nanners20 (Nanners20) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:04 pm: Edit

WCT

well that is good to know. Then there is still hope! But is it true they only take like 12 students for MT?

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:10 pm: Edit

Mtmomtok,
Juliana's journal can be found at this site:
http://haineshisway.com/juliana/

Juliana is one of the sweetest people you will ever get the chance to meet! She is very willing to answer questions and whatnot if you email her. We've actually become pretty good friends over the past couple of months.

I agree with what Nickdad has to say and I would definately trust Juliana's judgement about CCM - she told me that if she could do it over again she would have gone to Carnegie Mellon or University of Michigan.

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:15 pm: Edit

Wct--

Thanks!! CMU acceptance is for MT. Still trying to decide. Acceptances so far include, CCM, University of Miami and now, CMU. All MT programs.

I had emailed you earlier about CMU and you had kindly suggested contacting your son. That is definitely on the "to do list" now, as decision time is around the corner.

The only school left to hear from is Boston Conservatory. The lean is toward CCM and CMU, I believe. We will try to make some campus visits in the near future, so will be checking to see if there are shows to take in or freshman reviews, etc...
Scholarships will definitely be of interest!! If anyone has info on scholarship history of any schools -- please share.

Thanks again....

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:34 pm: Edit

Peggy, our school concert was last night. But as far as our school musical which opens in two weeks, the first show here is also on a Thursday night. Every year he keeps the students til midnight at school the night before which I think is nuts going into a four show run and school on top of that. But we all do what we gotta do. Which show was she in? I am sure you got great pleasure seeing her on stage.

I hope you look into Circle in the Square if it comes to that. They have a website online.

Susan

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 12:40 pm: Edit

Nickdad--

Where in Julianna's journal does she reference CCM? I read quite a number of entries and had yet to read anything pertaining to CCM -- did I miss it?

What schools is your kid interested in?

Thanks

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 01:48 pm: Edit

I just about have all my schedules for S college visit. Neither CCM or UofMI has students to meet with to show us around. Does anyone on the list have contacts? UofMI doesn't seem as coordinated as far as visits as other schools. I am having to set up everything on my own with the individual professors, which is kind of a turn off. Help anyone?
Thanks - Jenifer

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 01:53 pm: Edit

Peg,
I noticed the AADA web site mentions that after completing their 2 year program (they have MT)kids can transfer to a BFA program. It sounded like they had done this as a regular thing. I was going to call them to talk about this option (where they've had kids transfer to, for instance) but just haven't taken the time to do it yet. Why not give them a call?
jrmom

By 5pants (5pants) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 01:57 pm: Edit

I have to add a suggestion to you all....have your kids call to make the appointment for a visit. They need to make that initial contact themselves. I have never called ...my guys have sold themselves and learned to make the important contacts on their own!

By Jrmom (Jrmom) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 01:57 pm: Edit

Peg, here's the AADA info:
http://www.aada.org/html/admission/request.html

"5. It is recommended that applicants planning to pursue a BFA with an affiliated college submit SAT/ACT records."

Phone for more info:
800-463-8990 (New York)
800-222-2867 (Hollywood)

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Nanners20-
This year there are 10 MT majors at CMU. That seems to be the number they shoot for. You can look at this web site to see the names of the students in each department: http://www.cmu.edu/cfa/drama/students/undergrad.html

You will notice that there are only 9 names under First Year MT. That is because one student left by choice. I believe this student decided to try going pro now instead of continuing her studies.

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 04:47 pm: Edit

FYI--

Just heard that Boston Conservatory mailed out their letters today. So those waiting, should hear soon!!

By Janenw (Janenw) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 05:38 pm: Edit

Mtmomtok -

We live in the NW so sent in a tape. Call them. They were very nice and helpful and I think are doing live auditions in NYC until mid-April. (if you live relatively close). Web site is www.CAP21.org.
Looks like a good program - but if anyone has attended - would appreciated input.

Thanks!

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 05:39 pm: Edit

YAY! Priority waitlisted for Carnegie Mellon MT option!!!
~Caitie

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 05:43 pm: Edit

5pants,
It wonderful that your boys can make all these calls and arrangements themselves. I find this is one thing I can do to help my son in his crazy schedule. Most of the time between work, shows rehearsals, lessons and his job he is just lucky to study and sleep. This month he had school at 8, a professional show for matinees, lessons after that with homework and his job thrown in and rehearsals for his next show started at 4 PM. Weekends shows, auditions and rehearsals Oh - work and study. Let me not forget finishing his Eagle Scout and with our record snow fall this year he has been shoveling the neighborís, who has cancer, driveway many mornings. Letís see he is also choreographing two numbers for the schoolís spring Broadway show and playing ďbig brotherĒ to one of my friendís eighth grader who is trying to loose weight and fit in. I donít think he is unusual from what I see of these kids on this board, they are very special kids and if we as parents can help by setting up plane, rental car and hotel reservations and contacting a few schools who are we to complain?

Jenifer

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 05:45 pm: Edit

Caitie531-
Congrats to you!!!!!!!!!
What does this mean? Can you find out where you are on the list? Did you get the letter or did you find out online?

By Sasha1 (Sasha1) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 07:49 pm: Edit

MNMOM

Congrats to your gifted child!

My daughter will not be auditioning for a long while but we are searching for schools and she is trying to be as prepared as possible. Given your childs success in gaining entrance to so many programs can you share with us what she did to prepare artistically and academically for success. I'm sure that there is that God given talent element that you have or you don't but other than that --what do you see as the most important factors of success?

Any pearls of wisdom would be appreciated

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 08:08 pm: Edit

Mnmom...your child has met with great success in this very cut-throat MT college admissions process....very impressive! good luck on her decisions with it all...a nice "problem" to have!

Caitie....wow, sounds really promising on the priority waitlist...you should find out how many they have taken from it in years past. I forget where else you got into but congrats on getting this far.

Susan

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 08:13 pm: Edit

Sasha1-
I hope you don't mind me commenting on your post. The things I notice with my son and other talented students is that it just isn't the talent, (of course the talent aspect is VERY important)but what really makes the difference, (in my opinion) is the passion and the drive that a person has.

I teach MT voice/drama at a performing arts high school and there is definately a difference between the real focused kids and those who do it for fun. I see very talented kids every day, (they audition to get into the school) but the ones I know who will go the extra mile, have a positive attitude, practice, really do the WORK, are the ones that will succeed. You really have to take it, (the work) very seriously. I tell my students that it is like building a house. There is first a foundation and the house gets built up from there. A lot of kids don't get that. They want it to be easy. They won't do the prep work that most of the time is not the "fun" stuff. The prep work and the willingness to do it, and do it well, is in my opinion, what separates the "men from the boys" so to speak.

By Sarahsmom (Sarahsmom) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 08:49 pm: Edit

To those who talked about the NYU Sunday in the Square invites.....My d. applied to the Steinhardt program and she got an invitation to the University Day Receptions at Steinhardt on Apr 4. We have not gotten a letter of acceptance or rejection to the school or program there yet....We called about this invitation asking for more information about the event, they said that while letters have not yet been sent an invitation is a "..very good sign...of good news coming...and that letters would be sent around Apr 1". I imagine this is the same kind of recruitment program for accepted students that may be held at Tisch. They are releasing these invites prior to the letters as Apr 4 is just one week away and people need to make plans to come to NYC. Very exciting....

We have yet to hear from Emerson and Ithaca, but have heard positively from Hartt, Elon, Marymt Manhattan, and now hopefully NYU!!!!

Good luck to all.....the activity on this board is electric!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 09:59 pm: Edit

Sasha--
Thanks for the kind words. Really I would have to say it is hard work, and a really good attitude. Dance, acting and voice lessons have been a part of it and also summer theatre and school theatre and speech experiences for the last 8 years.

I will email you with some other details that I won't bore everyone with....ha!

Thanks again.

By Mnmom (Mnmom) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 10:05 pm: Edit

Soozievt--

Thank you -- too. We are very thankful, and appreciate yours and everyone's elses info sharing and support.

You are very encouraging!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 10:12 pm: Edit

Sarahsmom...pretty great that your daughter actually has several choices! congrats on the NYU promising information! We are going to visit NYU Sunday and Monday. But her plan is to apply to Tisch for Cap21, not Steinhardt but hear very good things about Steinhardt as well.

A schoolmate recently got into Ithaca but not Marymount so perhaps Ithaca is on your daughter's horizon!

Susan

By Somanymiles (Somanymiles) on Friday, March 26, 2004 - 11:52 pm: Edit

My son's invitation from Tisch for Saturday at the Square on April 10th was delivered Monday, the 22nd, and although that seems premature, a question about it was answered by the BB monitor on the NYU undergrad site: "Congratulations! Receiving an invitation to Saturday at the Square does indicate that good news will be on its way come April 1st. The Tisch program should be over by 1:00pm. You may also stick around longer if you wish to go on a campus tour." We live in Colorado, and a friend of my son's here has received a similar invitation to a Steinhardt event. It's starting to sink in and we've made our travel reservations . . .

By Caitie531 (Caitie531) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 12:36 am: Edit

To those of you lucky ones with multipal acceptances:
I am on the waiting list of the college of my first choice. For those of you who already know what your first choice is and have been accepted by it, please respond promptly so that those of us on the waitlist won't have to wait too long! :) Hint hint? Heh... thank you very much! Best of luck,
Caitie

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 12:47 am: Edit

Where exactly online do we go for CMU?

Shauna

By Wct (Wct) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 01:37 am: Edit

Shauna-
Go here:
http://www.cmu.edu/enrollment/admission/

Once you are there look under Application Process and click on "Where am I in the process". You will need your BIO ID. From there it should be self explanitory. Good Luck!

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 07:46 am: Edit

Good morning, everyone. Peggy and others have asked for a list of colleges with strong theatre programs, not necessarily in MT, and not conservatories. I can't do it for the entire country, but I can help with Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana and Ohio, which is Region III of the Kennedy Center-American College Theater Festival. Sorry I don't have time this morning to go into a history of KCACTF (see website link below), but I can tell you that schools which participate in the organization have faculty who are committed to helping their students learn through shared experiences, including the regional festivals. It's a college version of Thespians, if that helps.

I've run two festivals in Region III, and chaired the region for two years. The list which follows is not exhaustive, but it does include schools whose good work I've seen at festival or on their home campuses. The first two schools listed in each state are particularly known for doing musicals, even if they don't have MT degrees. (And some may; sorry I don't know for sure.) Most of the schools listed do not hold auditions for entrance into their theatre programs, although many may hold scholarship auditions. I have not listed schools from the standard MT list, like Michigan, Otterbein, CCM, Baldwin-Wallace, Roosevelt, and so on, who do hold auditions for entrance.

For more information on KCACTF, go to their homepage: http://www.kennedy-center.org/education/actf/

I'm off to NYC this morning with the seniors, who do their showcase (along with Northwestern and Baldwin-Wallace's MTs and CCM's drama majors) on Monday and Tuesday night. Wanted to get this sent off before I left.

Best wishes to all. Hope this helps.

MICHIGAN
Oakland University, Rochester
Western Michigan University, Kalamazoo
Calvin College, Grand Rapids
Hope College, Holland
University of Michigan-Flint

WISCONSIN
Viterbo University, La Crosse
UW Stevens Point
Marquette University, Milwaukee
Lawrence University, Appleton
UW Parkside

ILLNOIS
North Central College, Naperville
Illinois Wesleyan University, Bloomington
National-Louis University, Evanston
Loyola University, Chicago

INDIANA
Ball State University, Muncie
Butler University, Indianapolis
Earlham College, Richmond
Saint Mary's College, Notre Dame
University of Indianapolis
University of Southern Indiana, Evansville
Valparaiso University, Valparaiso

OHIO
Ohio Northern University, Ada
College of Wooster, Wooster
Miami University, Oxford
Oberlin College, Oberlin
University of Akron
University of Dayton
Wittenberg University, Springfield

By Sarahsmom (Sarahsmom) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 09:56 am: Edit

Soozievt - thanks for your warm wishes and kind comments.....they are well appreciated!

We wish you the best on your NYU visit. We had been visiting there for several years as NYU had always been at the very top of my daughter's list. She has friends both at Tish and Steinhardt and we very carefully explored the two programs. Certainly much is on this board about Tisch, and some info is on about Steinhardt as well. Both programs have their strengths and weaknesses, however ultimately and surprisingly, Sarah chose to apply to Steinhardt. This had surprised me for she had always talked about Tisch. Her final decision, after much deliberation, came from the far greater training in voice (she is a most strong singer), comparable acting training, much smaller and seemingly warmer and more supportive program, training with known and very well-connected faculty rather than in a studio, etc. She also didn't like that you are not sure of your studio assignments in Tisch and may wind up in a nonMT studio. Tisch is better in dance prep - an area that Sarah needs, but we believe that she can more easily acquire additional dance training in NY. Word 'on the street' is that Tisch trains the chorus, Steinhardt trains the 'leads', although frankly I question that. Additionally, as we went around the country looking at MT programs, many faculty at other reknowned programs told us that they thought the Steinhardt program was better than the Tisch program for they liked the faculty-training model rather than the studio model where instructors are not scrutinized by the university. I am sure this is a matter of debate, and that both are terrific. Ultimately it is an issue of fit, and with my D. she went with Steinhardt as it better fit her strengths. All of this is to encourage you to look at both programs when you go to NYC, and best of luck with your decisions......

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 10:21 am: Edit

Sarahsmom, that was very thoughtful of you to describe the differences as you observed or heard between both NYU programs. Once a while back there was some discussion on this exact topic on this forum but it may have been before you joined in.

Like your daughter, mine has had her eyes on NYU for many years, alot of that has had to do with older friends who go there (plus her desire to be in NYC as icing on that cake). Her college process which has just begun recently is a bit weird for me cause she begins it with this strong preference before we even researched colleges/programs. She now HAS researched others and is open to others and we will visit others as well.

I do worry a little bit that with Tisch you are not guaranteed your studio and she truly wants musical theater which is Cap21. I know if she got into another studio, you can switch after two years but I think she would be happiest in a program that had singing, dance, and acting...all three, as she has always done all three disciplines. The other colleges involve applying for MT and you are either in or out. One school of thought that her best friend I think is considering it applying to all of them RD so she is not tied to Tisch if she does not get Cap21. The other school of thought we have heard is applying ED to Tisch increases one's chances to get into Cap21 (we know two girls who got into it ED). My daughter says she is open to all programs now that she has begun the search/selection process but she still has this preference for NYU/Tisch. On paper, she seemed to really like UMich and CCM.

I am going to show her your post (she is at the SATs right now! and then has a six hour rehearsal for the musical) but I will show it to her eventually. She knows one girl from her summer program who got into Steinhardt as a freshman this year but deferred a year cause she got the understudy for the lead in a national tour (her name is also Sarah!). Like your daughter, she is an excellent singer. Singing is my daughter's forte as well but she also is a dancer and I think she would prefer a program that had dance in it though as you say, you can take dance in the city elsewhere.

The main drawbacks I see that could be at Tisch are not being sure which studio you get....and then also how many kids are in the program compared to most of the other programs she is looking at. I can't imagine her on her own in the city (mostly cause I am not ready for that....she SOOO is, lol) and there is no campus. She has wanted this for a long time and so I will see where she goes with all this. Meanwhile she is spending the night in the dorm with a friend she used to room with in summer, seeing a bunch of other kids likely, going to two dance classes in Cap21 with a friend in the program, doing the NYU tour/info. session, the Tisch info. session, plus Tisch arranged for her to talk to a student in the program she does not know (my D decided to do that and felt the opinions would not be of the same bias of all the friends she knows who go to Tisch). This is the first college visit. I will tell her about Steinhardt and see if she wishes to look into it. I told her about it once previously and had it on an initial list. She took it off. She has a mind of her own....lol....at fifteen going on 30 ! I will share what you said though. Ultimately it is about what she wants to do. My role would be to show her various resources cause she does not know it all (yet anyway, lol).

Hope she can follow in your daughter's successful footsteps though!
Susan

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 10:28 am: Edit

Arg...nothing yet for CMU, even online...no change from how the page has looked for the last two months.

Shauna

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 10:32 am: Edit

Since we're at about 240 posts, I think it's time for...

PART 11!

HTML doesn't seem to be working on this page, so I'll just type the URL here:

http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?4/56152

Whoo hoo!

Shauna

By Showstopmom (Showstopmom) on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 03:56 pm: Edit

I just received some great news. I applied to 4 schools for musical theater and heard from 3 that I got in and was waiting for the fourth which was my top choice. I just heard today and I'm so happy to share that I got into the Boston Conservatory. Thank you all for sharing your stories and best of luck to all of you.

By Alanz (Alanz) on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 12:09 am: Edit

Shauna,

Please close this thread so folk will use Part 10 and subsequent threads.

Thanks

By Abcde (Abcde) on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 11:27 am: Edit

Does anyone have any information on the James Madison Music Theatre Major. My daughter is a dancer but wants a complete theatre experience -acting , music and dance.

By Sunbeam (Sunbeam) on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 01:48 pm: Edit

I haven't read very much about Northwestern U.'s musical theater program. I know there are no auditions and that the musical theater option is only an option after your freshman year. But, does anyone know any of the plusses and minuses of their program?

This thread continues ... Hit Part 11
Trinity

By Seashells29 (Seashells29) on Monday, August 23, 2004 - 09:25 pm: Edit

I have been reading this chat about musical theater for a few months now and have a question. Does it make a difference in terms of acceptance into a MT program if you audition at the college itself or at the regional auditions? Because my daughter will be applying to about 10 schools, we cannot financially or logistically go to all ten schools, so we are strongly considering the regional auditons in NYC. Of course, she will have to audition at the schools that don't attend the regional auditions. I appreciate any insights, especially from those out there who got accepted into a MT program. I'd be curious to know if you auditioned at the college or at regional auditions. Thanks!


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