Why Ivy?





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Discus: College Search and Selection: March 2004 Archive: Why Ivy?
By Amigos45289 (Amigos45289) on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 08:13 pm: Edit

What's the big deal about Ivy schools? Does it really matter weather a school is Ivy or not?

By Jonathan0386 (Jonathan0386) on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 08:29 pm: Edit

No, It's WHAT you do in the school you decide to attend NOT WHERE you do it at..Although you must choose wisely!

By Voigtrob (Voigtrob) on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 08:47 pm: Edit

I hate threads like this. They pop up constantly. My opinion in a nutshell is that yes, as lots of underachievers who go to state schools love to chant, college is what you make of it. I agree with that to an extent. However the environment you are in does have a huge impact on you, and the environment at Ivy League and other top notch schools is simply better intellectually in about a bajillion ways than, for example, a state school.

By Bunmushroom (Bunmushroom) on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 09:24 pm: Edit

outside of hyp, the other ivies arnt as well known as mit and Stanford. Is your question why ivy or why prestigious school?

By Jomars04 (Jomars04) on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 10:12 pm: Edit

I'm totally with Voigtrob. No one would ever ask why someone would choose a Mercedes or BMW over over a an old pickup truck. We as humans love to do things that not everyone else is capable of doing. Going to an Ivy is like owning an expensive car; you feel special to know you have something others don't. It also means that you're part of a very elite group of people, making it even more desirable. I hope that makes sense...

By Metz (Metz) on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 10:58 pm: Edit

This pisses me off so much. I hear this all the time. There are a million reasons for why to pick an Ivy (and a million reasons to not pick one if it isn't for you). And there is no need to bash the Ivy's. A lot of people seem to think it's for prestige . . . normally that's only SOME of it . . . sometimes that's ALL of it, though. In no way am I saying that someone should pick an Ivy JUST for prestige. But here's a question: Why is it okay to bash someone for going to a school for prestige (which is at least a reason), but no one has a problem with people going to their state school, which they chose simply as an accident of geography.

It's called hypocrisy and more importantly it is simply a sympton of hating the best. People hate the Yankees, America, and the Ivy League for the same reason -- no one likes the best of the best.

By Jordana (Jordana) on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Well everyone has good points here.... There is a good reason to question why people want to go to the Ivy's and there is a good reason for people to question why peole go to their state school. It seems that for both most people just blindly apply. The thing is, is that state schools seem logical and make sence, but then Ivy's can give a great education and of course saying you went to any Ivy league will give you respect and glory (for lack of a better word). Not to say that either are better, a school is only as good as the person who's looking at it thinks. Every school is different for everyone.

So to answer your question...What is the big deal about Ivy schools?
Well we are a society that is attracted to the best. The U.S. has the best and expects the best, most of us are bred with the *best* running throught are veins. And it is also human nature to want the best and be considered the best. So as long as the Ivy's are considered the best schools in the U.S. thousands are going to apply.
But no it doesn't really matter if a school is an Ivy or not. If you like it and are happy with lt then that is all that should matter. I would completly discourage getting caught in all the hype about Ivy's if you dont like any of them. Just as I would discourage applying to your state school if you dont like it.

Hope that helps :)

By Annakat (Annakat) on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:53 pm: Edit

I would ask why someone would choose a Mercedes or a BMW over a Honda Accord.

College should not be about feeling good because you have something others don't or because you're part of an elite group. Ultimately, the association with a school or institution will get you only so far. Later on in life, your achievements and actions, not your associations with a particular college or company, will define you.

By Chris2121 (Chris2121) on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 11:59 pm: Edit

I think the whole concept of an "Ivy League" is pretty ridiculous. It is something that was coined by some guy somewhere in a newspaper. If there had been 12 teams in the "league", then everyone on this board would be fretting over 12 schools, not just 8...People who want to know "which ivy" just follow the herd mentality, and want the best name, not what is best for them. (usually). I could easily name 5 non-ivy schools that are as good, but probably better than the holy, untouchable 8...That being said, the everyday average joe would never guess that Brown, UPenn, or Dartmouth would be in the ivy league. (most people don't even know how many schools are in the "league") Don't get me wrong, the ivy league schools are some of the best in the nation, but they are not THE BEST in many important areas...I somehow think that the ivy league was unfortunately created so that lazy kids wouldn't have to research colleges: "as long as I apply to an ivy league school, I'm fine."

By Usunkmyb_Ship (Usunkmyb_Ship) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 12:12 am: Edit

Well, might as well get the best education mommy and daddy can buy :/

By Metz (Metz) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 12:14 am: Edit

"I think the whole concept of an "Ivy League" is pretty ridiculous. It is something that was coined by some guy somewhere in a newspaper. If there had been 12 teams in the "league", then everyone on this board would be fretting over 12 schools, not just 8"

Yeah, except for the fact that the name encourages top students and professors to go to the school, which can be very important for many students.

"I could easily name 5 non-ivy schools that are as good, but probably better than the holy, untouchable 8"
Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, Williams, Amherst -- those are all comparable (or better than) most Ivy's. But who cares? If you attend those schools you are no less a prestige whore than if you attend the Ivy's.

I love how people can just proclaim certain schools are better than others, but it is wrong to say that about Ivy's.

"That being said, the everyday average joe would never guess that Brown, UPenn, or Dartmouth would be in the ivy league"
Who cares? Most Ivy grad's don't work for the average joe coming out of college.

How many top investment bank firms recruit at the Cal States as opposed to Dartmouth? Have you ever checked out the internship opportunities that the Ivy's hand out as opposed to your average State U.

"Don't get me wrong, the ivy league schools are some of the best in the nation, but they are not THE BEST in many important areas"
I agree, but what is nice with them is that they are great in a lot more fields than your average school.

"I somehow think that the ivy league was unfortunately created so that lazy kids wouldn't have to research colleges: "as long as I apply to an ivy league school, I'm fine." "
Yeah, the Ivy's are full of lazy kids . . .

By Chris2121 (Chris2121) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 12:28 am: Edit

"Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, Williams, Amherst -- those are all comparable (or better than) most Ivy's. But who cares? If you attend those schools you are no less a prestige whore than if you attend the Ivy's."

Exactly...that's my point. Why are people worrying about "the best ivy", when there are other schools that can be just as good, if not better...people aren' thinking outside of the ivy-boundary if you will.

"Most Ivy grad's don't work for the average joe coming out of college"

I think you are sadly mistaken with this mindset. You will be in for a rude awakening when the first job you land at a prestigious firm or company will involve you working with colleagues who went to no-name schools, and are earning more than you are. Most of your bosses will also have their undergrad degrees from local/non-ivy schools. The better and more prestigious the jobs become, the less they will look at your education, and the more they will look at you. Don't be naive. I've seen plenty of ivy-grads working as high-school teachers making $50,000/yr, and far less of them working in high society. Look at Forbes' list of richest men, and where they got their undergrad degrees--aside from Bill Gates, you would be surprised. WHERE you get a B.A is a lot less important than you would think. It has a lot to do with you as a person, and who you know. Where you get your MBA, or PhD on the other hand, matters...

By Metz (Metz) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 01:03 am: Edit

I agree and disagree. Of course an Ivy degree guarantees you nothing in respect to success. I'm not claiming you will be a success as a result. But the truth is, when you get your first job out of college, it's not gonna be at your local pizza parlor. Ivy's get HEAVILY recruited (assuming the students have good grades). Assuming you are working in the northeast (i.e. NY, Boston, Philly, etc.) the odds are the people you work for will have heard of the Ivy's that aren't HYP.

"Most of your bosses will also have their undergrad degrees from local/non-ivy schools."
Depends on the field.

"The better and more prestigious the jobs become, the less they will look at your education, and the more they will look at you."
Gotta disagree there in respect to getting work out of college. The more prestigious businesses are MORE likely to be impressed by an Ivy (or Stanford, MIT, etc.) degree. Of course you still have to interview well, and if someone else has more experience than you, you'll be out of luck.

"Don't be naive"
I'd say the same to you.

"I've seen plenty of ivy-grads working as high-school teachers making $50,000/yr, and far less of them working in high society"
Yes there are SOME that work for 50,000 a year as teachers, but that is something they obviously chose to do. But to imply that that is the normal salary for an Ivy grad is ridiculous.

"Look at Forbes' list of richest men, and where they got their undergrad degrees--aside from Bill Gates, you would be surprised."
Check out the list of BA degrees of Fortune 500 CEOs. If I remember correctly it was:
1. Harvard
2. Princeton
3. Penn and Northwestern
5. Yale

"WHERE you get a B.A is a lot less important than you would think."
I only think it's important if you are going to work after school or in a very few select occupations (i.e. politician).

But I thinkyou are missing the point. Tons of people want to go to have the opportunity to interact with the nation's top stuents and have some of the country's top academics teaching them. They would simply enjoy a top school more...not just because of prestige...and in fact prestige may be a small portion of why they pick a school.

"Where you get your MBA, or PhD on the other hand, matters... "
No doubt about that. That is definatly more important. Don't forget JD either.

By Momx4 (Momx4) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 01:09 am: Edit

Chris, right off the bat I can think of two Ivy grads (um, no wait, they're Stanford grads) who are teaching in private high schools making less than $50,000 a year and absolutely loving what they are doing. They didn't go to the Ivies in the hopes they would make a lot of money one day; they went to the Ivies in the hopes that they would get an inspiring education. They did, and they are enthusiastic teachers, bringing an idealistic love of learning to the students in the high schools in which they are now teaching.

By Chris2121 (Chris2121) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 02:04 am: Edit

Points well taken Metz...I love engaging in realistic debate without both sides eating each other's heads off...The only point I was trying to make is that the 8 ivies are not the be-all-end-all in the way of a great, elite education. I will be attending NYU this fall, and while it isn't an Ivy, (or even in to top 20, according to most rankings), there is still no doubt that I will be getting one of the best educations in the country, with exposure to all NYC has to offer; I, personally, would take this exposure/academic quality over an Ivy any day, thus being a segue into my original point: it's fruitless to rank ivies when there are other schools that could be better in many areas...It's all up the person who is applying...

By Studentoflife (Studentoflife) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 12:59 pm: Edit

Ivy league will give you some things, state schools will give you some things, LAC's will give you some things, tech schools will give you some things... it's all about YOU and what you need in a college education, etc.

For instance, if you are an elite athlete, and only need college to prove to the NFL, NBA that you are worthy of their attention, then an Ivy league school is completely the WRONG choice and a state school (Florida State, NC State, Ohio State, Penn State, Washington State, etc) would probably get you more noticed.

If you are a complete business person, who has a lot of parental pressure to become the leader of some business somewhere, or to be some really elitist political or legal personage... then maybe the Ivy league is a possible scenario.

If you have a firm desire to be an artist, or interior designer, or elite auto mechanic... maybe an LAC, or technical school is your best bet (and there is NOTHING wrong with that).

Maybe you are a person that just desires more meaningful things in life, (love, family, friends, giving of one's self) then whatever school you choose might need to be one that has great family centered programs. Definately not the 'self-centered, look at me I'm awesome, it's all about just me and my brain' Ivy league stuff.

The Ivy league, when all is said and done, is just another option to select for going to school (and yeah, they like to make you seem like you are somehow less likely to have smelly s**t and that you are a more valuable person than anyone else). In the long run and the overall perspective of life--I would have thought 9-11-2001 would have helped teach this, but NO--where you go to school means VERY LITTLE, [I assure you that The Higher Powere doesn't give a rat's.]) and the more important part is what you do with your knowledge to help and assist others (cuz what you do and what you are all about means diddly if you don't express it and/or use it to help/assist others), and there is no real meaning behind a degree from an ivy league school unless you apply yourself and LEARN what it takes to accomplish what you want to accomplish. A degree from Harvard is just as valuable, or devaluable (however one chooses to view it) as a degree from (You decide) State University...it all depends on WHO has the degree, and what they do with it.

By Farrahday (Farrahday) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 01:23 pm: Edit

Look....there have been a lot of sanctimonious posts about how we should not just go to ivy for the prestige. Thats a legitimate point, but there are plenty of reasons to go besides prestige. They have top notch professors and students, and large budgets for research and other educational opportunities. They're also all need-blind, so most who can get in can afford to go. And what annoys me most about posts like these is that there is usually someone piping about how we should think about other schools like Amherst, U Chig, or Wash U, all extremely prestigious schools. If you want to challange the prestige point, then explain how going to some fourth tier private school would serve most people better than an ivy.

Look: Are the ivies good schools? If you answer no to this question you have no credibility. They're always easily in the top 20 of any ranking. My opinion is that amongst the top 25-30, the schools are all so spectacular that its hard to qualitively say that one is better than than another.

And if you think that by going to the "hidden gems" Stanford, Williams, or Amherst, you can escape prestige whores, you're wrong. There will be some at every top school, whether it be a university, a LAC, or a service academy.

By Metz (Metz) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 01:57 pm: Edit

Chris, I agree, every school has something for someone.

But it's funny you mention NYU as it's one of my top choices (just below a couple Ivy's ). It's endowment allows it to hire many top professors, the recent selectivity of it has resulted in a very strong study body, internship/job opportunities are numerous, and of course you are in New York City, which nothing compares to.

By Studentoflife (Studentoflife) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 03:26 pm: Edit

Farrahday, I'm assuming your argument is in response to my post. And, if so, you missed my point. Ofcourse, you might be another one of the "everybody is shooting for exactly the same goal" argumentalists and if you are, I'm barking up the WRONG tree. Anyways, yes, Anybody (who pays a lot of attention to higher education within the United States) will probably tell you that Ivy League schools are good institutions, and earning a degree from an Ivy league school is a great accomplishment. But...

To your argument:
"They're always easily in the top 20 of any ranking"???? Come on.

From this comment, you have just qualified yourself as a USNWR, PR, Kaplan, and all other academics only ranking systems junkie. You too, to this degree, hold no credibility. You are focused on ONE way and ONE way only. Pretty narrow, wouldn't you agree?

Consider this: What about students with disabilities, notably learning disabilities (ADD, Dislexia)? These special few (actually many) would be even more disadvantaged if they only considered your list of top 20 schools.

How about late bloomers--people that didn't live their life for SAT's and EC's while in HS, but are just as intelligent (if not a heck of a lot more intelligent due to life experiences and the leading school in the world, UHK--The University of Hard Knocks for those who don't know) as your HYP enrollees?

Would you suppose that there is a top 20 out there that might be for people looking for a quality education, but belong in the above categories? Are you completely confident that the Ivy league would show up on any list of college top 20's? Will any of the Ivy League Schools be participating in this years NCAA Men's or Women's basketball tourney? I argue NOT.

In a nutshell, searching for school doesn't mean being like everyone wants you to be (which is what the Ivy's and other prestige whore attracting institutions try to portray), but more of a personal endeavor that should hopefully result in life satisfaction for the individual who has, hopefully for the right reasons, chosen to pursue higher education.

By Farrahday (Farrahday) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 05:16 pm: Edit

Actually Student, my post was in response to the general conversation. I didn't miss the point to your rant, I just wasn't commenting on it. But I'm going to answer some of your latest arguments.

I'm not a rankings junkie-in fact, I've only seen the USNews ratings once, and that was a year or so ago. And even if I was, I wouldn't have been focused on just one thing. Those studies measure avg gpa, avg sat, peer assesment, size of endowment, teacher-to student ratio, and other fine ways.

Your arguments about students with disabilites, etc are both obvious and unrelated. Of course people with special circumstances should not look only at top schools (ivy or otherwise). But we're talking about things in general, not just a bunch of special exceptions. And when I meant any college list, I meant any academic list. Stop with the semantics.

Question for you: Are the ivies good schools? And I don't want some answer along the lines of "what about people intersted in fashion, or sports?" Could the ivies be good schools for your average smart kid, interested in getting a bachelors degree?

By Studentoflife (Studentoflife) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 05:23 pm: Edit

Farrahday, that's a dumb question. 'nuff said.

By Abz1986 (Abz1986) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 06:14 pm: Edit

Why exactly is that a dumb question?

Just answer it...

By Farrahday (Farrahday) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 06:24 pm: Edit

It's not supposed to be brain surgery. By your "dumb question" comment, can I assume the answer is a clear yes?

By Amigos45289 (Amigos45289) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 07:10 pm: Edit

I just want to go to a school where people are smart and actually have opinions, but I don't want to go to a school where people go around acting like they're smart and their opinion is the only one that matters. From I hear it seems like Ivy school kids think they're all that. That would annoy the heck outta me.

Another thing, aren't Ivy schools expensive? That would be one reason not to pick the BMW. I'd rather not spend the first 10 years of my career trying to get out of debt.

By Abz1986 (Abz1986) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 07:48 pm: Edit

Besides the classification, what makes a school that is a member of the Ivy League different from any other top school? I think Ivy League schools are different from one another as they are from schools outside the Ivy.

Then again, I neither visited nor applied to an Ivy... so I know nothing more about them than the general CC poster.

By Candi1657 (Candi1657) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 07:57 pm: Edit

Amigos

That was a rude and unfair generalization about a whole bunch of people you don't know. There's good and bad people everywhere.

Sure, Ivies are expensive, but if you get a good financial aid package, you might be paying much less than you think. Dartmouth gave me very little in loan, mostly grants.

By Amigos45289 (Amigos45289) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 08:32 pm: Edit

Candi, it wasn't my generalization, it is what I've heard. So calm down.

Say you've got a top school that's not an Ivy, it's pretty selective and full of people who really want to learn and top professors. It's also cheaper than an Ivy. Why an Ivy?

BTW, I'm not saying this to bash Ivies, I simply want to know why people place so much prestige on them. I had no idea people were so sensitive about colleges.

By Yodisistim (Yodisistim) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 09:02 pm: Edit

Well welcome to CC lol. It's crazy in here. We have to remember that this site is primarily here for us to share our experiences and thoughts, NOT to bash anyone for any college choices they may make in the future.

IMO, I think (notice I said "think") many people want to go to a school that would look impressive on an application. Ivy's aren't the only schools that receive the most attention though. There are many other schools that people place heavy emphasis on. Ultimately, it is up to YOU whether it matters if an Ivy is better than any other school. IMO, I could care less; whatever school I decide to choose will have a good enough reputation for ME...that's all that matters.

By Candi1657 (Candi1657) on Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Amigos

That was a generalization, based on what you've heard. If someone told you that all *insert group here* were jerks, would you go around repeating that or would you try to find out if it's true or not?

By Farrahday (Farrahday) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 04:04 pm: Edit

Candi, relax. This is a college site, and he heard something college related and wanted to find out if it was true. It's entirely appropriate to ask. And Amigos-look at it this way. No matter what school you go to, there will be some people who are jerks. At top schools, the jerks are also smart, which gives them that annoying quality of not listening to anyone else. I have not ever heard that the ivies are particularly known for having the qualities you mentioned. Just from my experience in the college search, don't listen to anything along the lines of that. I heard really bad stuff about JHU, until I visited and LOVED it, and discovered what I had heard about the students was wrong. The student body is almost always a positive at top schools, not a negative.

As for the expense issue. Yes, ivies are expensive, as are most top schools. Ivies are so old that they have high endowments, which has allowed them to all become need blind, meaning that most people can afford to go there. Some other top schools are not need blind, but a lot are. The only drawback for the money issue is that ivies do not give any merit or athletic scholarships, unlike some oteher schools. (It's part of the ivy contract or something) So other schools might cost less with merit aid.

As for the question in your most recent post, sure go wherever you want. It's just that there are some kids ont his forum who love to bash anyone who likes the ivies as blind, prestige whores. We're just arguing that choosing to go to an ivy is as good of a choice as going to Stanford, Swarthmore, WUSTL, UChig, JHU, etc. as long as the student is happy.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 04:16 pm: Edit

I loved that comment that the ivy designation makes it easy for lazy kids to make their college list. I see this all of the time. Kids and their parent who want to apply to all 8 ivies for no other reason than they heard that they are the best. I have gotten to the point where I just tell them to apply and get it out of their systems and then they have to start the real search and find some school in varying selectivities that match what they want to get out of college. That usually works. They are so defensive about wanting the "best" that they cannot see straight until you tell them to go for it and then let's start the real job. Anyone can pick a group of colleges by saying, all 8 ivies. What UPenn has in common with Dartmouth is a mystery to me. A kid who wants a school like Dartmouth should be looking a other small school, LACs in particular with less selectivity. Perhaps Union, Hamilton, St Lawrence U. Maybe look at some schools in Minnesota. If the cold is not a detererent Macalester, St Olafs , Carleton or Lawrence in Wisconsin or Grinnell in Iowa are all good choices for Dartmouth applicants.

Like Columbia? Look at some other NYC schools or schools in a big city. Cornell is just not comparable.

Once you get the ivies out of the way, you can figure out what you really want.

By Hoping (Hoping) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 05:15 pm: Edit

are you saying that union grinnell etc, are on a par with Dartmouth? they are not even close,not in any category of measurement,ivy or not those schools do not rank anywhere near Dartmouth.They are all fine schools but they are not D

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 05:48 pm: Edit

They are more similar to Dartmouth than say UPenn. The whole idea is to find fine schools with VARYING selectivity. Dartmouth is a reach school. The chances of getting into Dartmouth are very, very small. You pick a school similar to Dartmouth that is easier to get in. Not a school that is nearly as difficult to get in and very different. You are looking for variable selectivities. You want to add another reach for the sky school, add Williams or Amherst, but you are not changing your chances of getting into a college by much. The problem is that a lot of kids want to load up with schools that have a 30% or less accept rate which is not a smart thing to do if you want to guarantee some choices in April. If you apply to all 8 ivies and your state school as your safety, you could end up with a school that is nothing like what you want if Dartmouth is your dream school. A school like Union is much more like Dartmouth. It takes more work to find a group of colleges that have the characteristics you want at varying selectivities than to just pick schools by their prestige factor and high selectivity. If those are important to you ,sure, load up on them first, get them out of the way. That's easy to pick. Then get on with the work and look for some schools that have other things that are important. You might be surprised at how similar some of these schools are in terms of courses, professors, quality of education. Some might even get you into med or law school better than Dartmouth would.

By Farrahday (Farrahday) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 06:50 pm: Edit

Is it silly to apply to all 8 ivies? Of course. But be careful when you say that someone who liked Dartmouth could not possibly like UPenn. Sometimes, there are different, even contradicting, things you want in a college, and different colleges offer them. For example, I once read a post that declared that no one who liked Brown could like UPenn. As a matter of fact, I loved both, and would have applied to UPenn had I not gotten into Brown. (Those would have been the only two ivies.) When I visited UPenn I found a realy great atmosphere: I saw all these people studying, and still others involved in their clubs (there's some big walkway where all the clubs have booths) and everyone seemed to be really involved in their thing,which I liked.

If someone applies to all 8 ivies, chances are they didn't really do a thorough college search. But if someone applies to a couple of different schools, that doesn't mean that they're prestige whores, just that they have found something they liked at varying schools. Look at it this way-are all your friends the same, or even similar? I have a lot of different friends, who all have something cool to offer.

By Hoping (Hoping) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 07:02 pm: Edit

you are right.I agree that you are better off picking like schools of varying levels to assure yourself the most success in your apps process,although I am a firm believer that your best choice is the one you get into!

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 07:05 pm: Edit

I agree. I don't even mind that someone applies to all 8 ivies. They should also look at some other selectivities if they do not want to scampering around looking for a school that still is accepting apps in April. Or if they are stuck with a safety they just tacked onto the list as a "just in case". Though it takes some work, you can find schools that are not so selective that can be a great experience for you. It is a good exercise in looking for what you really want in a college other than the prestige factor. It forces another level of thinking.

By Hoping (Hoping) on Monday, March 08, 2004 - 07:50 pm: Edit

Im sure that students who are applying to top schools are probably applying to 4 or 5 ivies as well as several other schools of varying selectivity in fact,with over 135,000 apps for roughly 16,000 slots you d be crazy not to.Actually in todays world you have to back yourself up regardless of where you apply.I would also think that geography plays less of a role than just being greatful you got in!!

By Mjl86 (Mjl86) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 09:48 am: Edit

I agree with all this hating. People in my school hate ivy bound people, the top 10%, people on NHS etc. They prefer jocks and jills. And most parenst hate to admit that their son/daughter is below average. It has gotten to the point where we no longer have a class rank, and we no longer recognize those who win academic awards, such as being a national merit finalist/semifinalist. What is stupid is taht we don't even announce who is val and sal to the school until the last day of school. We do, however, recognize the sports teams and stuff. Maybe people realized that people who are all into sports and not into books will be working in McDs in the future. i know that people hate the fact taht they are in, e.g. the bottom 50%, but it is reality and someone has to fail for another to succeed.

By Mundanesundays (Mundanesundays) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 10:51 pm: Edit

hi everyone.
here is my input, which I think is relevant because I've been conflicted over this issue myself, lately.
I am going to Vassar next year. Vassar is an excellent school, but doesn't have anywhere near the prestige of the Ivies, which many of my friends and classmates are going to. Honestly, it is a little disappointing to have considered myself the equal of these people for so many years, and then to be looked down upon because I'm not going to a big name school.
The thing is, though, I didn't even look at most of the Ivies. Those that I did look at didn't appeal to me. The frat and party scene was crazy at most of the schools. They are all very big, and very impersonal. The biggest deterant for me from the Ivies was the lack of attention it seems that professors give undergrads. At the LACs I visited, students raved about their professors whom they often took out to lunch, chatted casually with, etc, and that would be a very rare occurance at an Ivy, from what I can tell. Of course, you'll get some of the greatest teachers that exist if you go to an Ivy, but it's really up to you if you want a mindblowingly, amazingly intelligent, nobel prize winning calibur teacher that will never know your name, or an excellent and intelligent teacher who will invite you out for dinner.

That's what I figure, anyway. But just because the Ivies weren't for me, doesn't mean they're not for you. I just think the blind Ivy worshipping (which is certainly rampant at my school) is slightly unfounded.

By Ceo1093 (Ceo1093) on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 11:13 pm: Edit

Hard-working students get the highest SAT scores, SAT scores get them to the Ivy League schools; the very same students work as hard in University as they did in HS.. thus hard-working students get the best jobs and finally, because they work hard, they as well success in their career etc.

it is as simple as that, from my point of view . I go to State U and I am happy about it, because I know I will be doing Graduate School in Ivy league. :)


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