Click here to go to the NEW College Discussion Forum

For those interested in the Air Force Academy or if you have questions about its application process, please post your questions here or contact me. I'm have no official attachment to the Academy anymore, but have a great deal of experience with "Zoomie U" as a grad, former prof (astro engr), parent of a son accepted to the Class of 06, brother of a grad who played intercollegiate sports there (football), and former member of a Senator's nominating board. There are a lot of misconceptions out there and I'd just like to clear them up and get the word out about what I consider to be the best education deal & undergrad experience in the US. It's not for everyone, but it may be right for many top students out there considering "elite" schools.

By Marty France (Docfrance) on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 07:41 pm: Edit

bump

By Kat Blair (Katwkittens) on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 10:24 am: Edit

Hi! Am new to this board and saw your message. My second oldest, currently a rising junior in HS is so very interested in becoming an AF pilot, and had always wanted to be a Zoomie but is now trying to decide if that is the best route. He is looking at other schools and going ROTC as an alternative. He is also interested in grad school after undergrad. He has above a 4.0 and his schedule for the fall is 5 AP classes (3 sciences) and 1 honors (math). He had 6 honors classes this past year with a 3.933 uw for the year. He plays Varsity football, which according to his coach, is settling nothing short of state champs this year!! He attends a big public hs 4000+, over 1300 in his class alone. He is top 2%, maybe higher after this past semester grades are posted.
This summer he is attending Embry-Riddle's aeronautical program on scholarship, it looks like a great experience. He is just trying to figure out what would be the best fit for him...he is torn between the academy (if it is a possibilty at all) or if he should focus more on the top tier schools which have strong programs in chemical engineering, aerospace, aeronatuical, or physics.....Princeton, MIT, Cornell.....He loves sports, big football player, loves baseball....most of all loves jets...any advice or wisdom you can impart would be great...

By Marty France (Docfrance) on Monday, June 17, 2002 - 03:20 pm: Edit

If you're goal is to fly in the Air Force, then there's no better route than USAFA. Period. Yes, there are other commissioning sources, but your chances of going to pilot training, and then succeeding there are better out of the Academy than the other sources. My brother was an all-state FB player in Arizona, started at AFA for three years, majored in engineering and ended up an Academic All-America. He then earned a grad fellowship and did an Aerospace MS in the middle of his career as an F-16 pilot. He recently retired after 20 years (he's 42) and a squadron command tour, and will fly for the airlines. My son is entering in 10 days as part of the class of '06, so I know the process well. Sorry for the late response to this, but please feel free to e-Mail directly at mfrance@cox.net I'll be in town for the next 9 days, then we go to USAFA to drop off our new cadet and take 11 days of vacation, returning 7 July.

And by the way, check out the Princeton Review--USAFA is a top tier school. It's ranked as the 5th hardest to get into and as the second best overall undergrad experience among American colleges and universities. My son turned down Johns Hopkins for USAFA, my bro turned down Yale, and me, welll I only applied to one school. From USAFA I did an MS in Aero & Astro at Stanford and a PhD at Virginia Tech. Bottom line is that USAFA is THE place to go if you want to be an engineer, Div I athlete, pilot and serve your country. (It's great on Mom and Dad's bank account, too!

Marty

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Friday, September 13, 2002 - 10:56 am: Edit

Check out the latest Princeton Review that rates USAFA as the #3 overall best undergraduate experience. It also ranks in the top 15 in several other important categories. Anyone interested in applying for the Class of '08 should be working on their application now. It's a very long and involved process. Please le me know if you have any questions.

Marty '81

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 11:27 am: Edit

Just a bump in the polls!

Go Air Force!!! Beat BYU!!!

By Rhett Roberts on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 08:30 am: Edit

wow, i dont even know where to start. Im a senior in my highschool and interested in the airforce academy. Im quite smart(having scored a 84 on the practice asvab test admisistrated by the airforce). Havent recieved my act test grades back yet but they should be around 29. Havent taken sat though. I have viewed the usafa web site many a time. I dont necessarily want to become a pilot but more an officer. I wish to make a career out of. Where do i start.

Help... Rhett slydogg98@yahoo.com

By nacho on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 05:53 pm: Edit

I'm a Junior in HS. I'm very interested in the academy. I ran varsity track last year at a competive school and did very well. I'm in good shape. I'm definently not the strongest guy in my class, but I seem to have the endurance and strength/weight ratio because I ususally do the best in physical tests like situps pullups... Anyways I'm very good academically, I have a 3.9GPA, hardest curriculm I can. I scored a 27 composite on the ACT as a midyear sophmore... I could have done much better preppign for it. I just took teh ASVAB and scored a 99AFQT

By Ryan Barnes on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Hey there,
I'm almost 16, I'm a junior in high school as of right now. I have always been interested in becoming a pilot. I know the Academy will be my best path to get to the pilot's seat. I have an overall 4.0 in HS, 1st Sgt(soon to be commander) in CAP Bellingham Composite squadron, been in boy scouts since 11(will have Eagle in 4 months), as a freshman I did Cross Country and Track, this year I did tennis and will do soccer in the spring. So I'm in fine shape. I have two questions, will this be adequet to get accepted into the USAFA, and about the congressional nomination, will it be hard to get one compared to someone who might have a rich family and has donated mucho dinero to a person's election campaign?
Thanks for your time!
RYAN

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 08:50 am: Edit

Sorry for the slow response, folks, but I was on travel for a few days to L.A. and then through Colo Springs, where I suffered thru the AF-ColoState FB game, but did get to check in with my son, a freshman at USAFA...

First, Rhett: If you're already in your senior year and haven't started the application process to USAFA you are WAY behind the power curve. You need to fill out the on-line questionnaires available at the website, contact your congressmen immediately, and I'd suggest calling the Academy admissions office to get the name of the admissions liaison that serves your local area. You don't have a minute to waste! If it's too late this year (some congressmen have 1 Nov deadlines for applications), then I suggest you consider applying for an ROTC scholarship--which has a much later deadline. You can also enroll in another college and then apply to USAFA next year. About 25% of each entering class has some college experience (up to 3 years!) or went to a year at a prep school. Please read my other answers for more info...

Good luck!

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 09:00 am: Edit

Ryan,

At first glance it looks like you'll probably be competitive for a nomination and appointment. Sports and the other activities you mention are very important--keep it up. Being an Eagle Scout is valued particularly by the admissions folks at USAFA. Academically, grades are important, but it's the type of classes you take that are probably more important. You should be taking the most challenging college prep curriculum you school offers, with an emphasis on math and science classes. If you're already doing that, then that's great. Next, go to the USAFA website and apply for the Summer Scientific Seminar. It's a one-week summer program in June for rising HS seniors held at USAFA. It only costs $200 and will give you a great glimpse at Academy life. It's a VERY competitive selection, but also highly valued. About 75% of SSS selectees who apply to USAFA the next year are admitted.

One you final comment, all I can say is "rest easy." It's really rare these days to hear of any favoritism in service academy admissions based on political factors or campaign contributions. That may have been the case 100 years ago, but today it's just not done. Most congressmen have independent panels with members from all parties choosing their nominees and conducting interviews. The process is so competitive, a congressman just wouldn't generally risk the scandal of nominating a week candidate over stronger ones just for a political reasons. Plus, for every opening at USAFA, a congressman can nominate 10 applicants, then (generally) they leave it to USAFA to pick the best candidate. Often, more than one of those 10 will be offered an appointment anyway, especially from areas with lots of strong candidates.

Anyway, keep up the hard work and GET STARTED EARLY!!! Good luck!

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 09:08 am: Edit

I think I got out of order... Okay, now for Nacho's questions:

My previous comments to Ryan hold true for you, too. Keep doing what you're doing. Work on that ACT/SAT score. You can see from the USAFA site that the AVERAGE entering cadet has a 1310 SAT and I think the ACT avg is in the 27-29 area. I know a LOT of 1350s and 28s that get turned down every year, so you should try to be comfortably above those numbers. All of your other activities will help, too. Apply to SSS and get started early on your application in the Spring. The earlier you get all of your paperwork in, the more "looks" you'll get from the Academy's admissions office.

USAFA runs a "rolling" admissions process. They starte evaluating applications/nominations in October each year and continue the process through at least March as more nominees' packages arrive. They have already begun handing out appointments! I personally know one girl who has already received her appointment to the Naval Academy! (All-State XC, 1510 SAT, #1 in her class).

Good luck!

By Ryan Barnes on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Thanks Marty, oh and by the way, I messed up in my post, I'm a sophomore, not a junior this year.

Thanks again,
RYAN

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 06:27 pm: Edit

Ryan, that's great--you've got plenty of time. Make sure that next year you sign up for the Summer Scientific Seminar at USAFA. Applications are due 31 Jan each year for the June classes. They're very competitive! Good luck and don't hesitate to stay in touch if you have any questions. Marty

By Ryan Barnes on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Thanks,
I really like what you have going here, I'll check it regularly for info and to ask questions.

-RYAN

By Dblmom (Dblmom) on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 04:36 pm: Edit

My twin sons received their acceptance letter to NAPS(NAVY PREP), yesterday. After visiting and speaking with Mids and coaches they felt doing the prep route was best for them.

I am one proud mother!

I would love to share my insight about the service academy application process, it isn't really that bad.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 04:55 pm: Edit

Congrats on the double! The Prep School route is a good one and works for a lot of kids. The process for an academy appointment is not all that difficult as it can be time-consuming. The deadlines can sneak up on kids. When they are recruited athletes, coaches can help smooth out some of the bumps and can offer appointments to the prep schools without going through the congressional nomination process--it greases the skids considerably. Anyway, congrats again. Best of luck to your sons. The NAPS experience should give them a big leg up on their fellow plebes in 2004!

By Ryan Barnes on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 06:01 pm: Edit

Hey again,
It is realistic to apply to all of the service academies? That way I kind of have a "back up academy" if the AF Academy doesn't select me for some strange reason, lol. Or would the application processes for each take too long?

Thanks,
RYAN

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 06:36 pm: Edit

Yes! Many people apply to all of the Academies. Be warned, though, that some congressmen and senators will only allow you to apply for a nomination to one. Check with your congressman and senators to be sure. For my son last year, that was the case for his congressman and one of his senators, but not for the other senator--he allowed him to apply to all three. Since your congressman selects from a smaller pool of applicants than your senators (except in states with only one representative), I'd suggest you pick USAFA as your choice if your congressman restricts your number of applications. Good luck!

By Ryan Barnes on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 10:24 am: Edit

Is it possible to request all of the admission papers early on? That way I'd have time to fill them out, instead of being in a rush in my junior year?

Thanks,
RYAN

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Check with the admissions office for each Academy on-line. You can do some pre-candidate work on-line that will get you in the system and speed the process. Plus, you'll get on their mailing lists and they'll send you more info and reminders!

By Ryan Barnes on Thursday, November 28, 2002 - 11:01 am: Edit

It's coming time that I call my ALO, can you give me a brief explanation about what they are really going to do for me? I've heard they answer questions, but I don't really have too many. They must do something else or they wouldn't be so important, what else is it that they do?

Thanks,
RYAN

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Thursday, November 28, 2002 - 12:15 pm: Edit

They interview nominees and make a recommendation to the admissions board at the Academy based on their impressions of you. They probably can't get a mediocre candidate in, but if they don't think much of you, it can be the kiss of death for even the most qualified candidate. They also help make sure you're getting all of your paperwork in on time. If you're accepted, they provide counseling and advice on what to expect, hints and suggestions for preparation, etc.

By Ryan Barnes on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 10:27 am: Edit

What do I say to my ALO?

RYan

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Tuesday, December 03, 2002 - 09:03 pm: Edit

Just tell him about your interest in the Academy and where you are in the process. He'll take it from there.

By Ryan Barnes on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 01:20 pm: Edit

Hey there,
When they say "20/20 or correctable to 20/20," what exactly does the correctable mean?

RYAN

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 02:35 pm: Edit

Correctable means, wearing glasses or contacts, you can be 20/20. In other words, when you're wearing your glasses with the best possible prescription, your eye doctor (or the military eye doctor) can bring you to 20/20.

By Ryan Barnes on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 02:15 am: Edit

So if you can be corrected to 20/20 with glasses or contacts, then they still let you become a pilot? If it says "20/20 or correctable to 20/20?"

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:04 am: Edit

In some cases, yes. But if you need glasses, then a waiver is required. I know people who've received waivers for uncorrected vision as bad as 20/80 or 20/100, but they were VERY highly qualified otherwise. In a few cases now, the Academy is performing PRK (laser surgery) on cadets to make them 20/20 uncorrected and thus pilot qualified. The policy on that, though, is still evolving and I may not have the most current info.

By Ryan Barnes on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 10:10 am: Edit

Thanks a lot,
RYan

By Ryan Barnes on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 08:44 pm: Edit

Hey again,
How do I find my ALO, I have called my local recruiting center and the guy there doesn't even know what an ALO is. He gave me a number to an OTS representative in hopes of maybe finding the number there, but I'm pretty sure he just didn't really understand what I was asking. Please help. I live in Northwest Washington.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 10:00 pm: Edit

Go to the Academy site and find the number to Academy admissions. Call them, they should be able to let you know who it is. Believe it or not, your high school counselor should know, too, but my experience with HS counselors on this type of question has not been good...

By LisafromNY on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 10:06 pm: Edit

Ryan:

If you are a soph it is really too early for an ALO to contact you. They are very busy with candidates that are in the application process. If you are really interested you might contact the local alumni chapter in your area and do some networking that way. My experience is with the Naval Academy and I know Blue Gold Officers won't contact you until you are an official candidate which can't happen until late in your Jr. year.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 10:41 pm: Edit

Ryan,
Lisa is correct. You can also research local parent groups in the area and ask to talk to cadets/midshipmen who are now on leave for their holiday break. My son got home last night--he's a reasonably happy doolie. There's really nothing official you can do until your junior year when you apply for one of the summer programs. For now, just gather info from the website and informally via cadets/parents/alumni.

By Ryan Barnes on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 01:06 am: Edit

Really... I probably would have never contacted my ALO this early either, until I picked up the Air Force Academy book. In it, it explains that, "oh yeah, ALO's start counseling with cadets as early as 8th grade.." So that's why I was asking.

Now that that's out of the way, I have another question. If it is true that you start applying for the academy when you are a junior, then what happens to the final 1/4 of your high school career? Do they even look at it? Because a lot of things could happen in the year of high school and if you have already applied as a junior, then how will the academy be informed of all the things you did that year? -Maybe I am just confused on dates or something, could you please clear this up for me?

Thanks a lot,
RYAN

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 06:56 am: Edit

Ryan, that's a problem no matter where you apply. Schools base most of their decision on what they see through your junior year and then what classes you intend to take (or are enrolled in) during your senior year. Rightly or wrongly, they assume you'll continue on a similar trajectory. If something special happens during your senior year, especially in the Fall, be sure to update your records. Most schools, including the Academy will ask for grades from your fall semester in high school to be forwarded to them also. As for the Spring semester, in most cases, unless you flunk something and have to retake a class for graduation, you'll probably be okay. There are enough stories out there of kids having admissions revoked (it does happen) based on bad spring grades to keep most kids honest. The biggest reason by far to do well in the spring of your senior year is to prepare yourself for college (or the Academy), especially by doing well in any AP classes you have.

By Ryan Barnes on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 10:15 am: Edit

THanks, I understand now

RYAN

By LisafromNY on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 03:33 pm: Edit

Ryan:

If you want to be a pilot; you should check out Navy. Navy has more pilots than Air Force..and the pilots are in better shape(just ask anybody from NavAir). Seriously, if have your heart set on going to a service academy you should apply to more than one.

GO NAVY

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, December 18, 2002 - 06:36 pm: Edit

Agree that you should check out your options--and I also recommend that Lisa set up her own site to answer questions for those interested in attending Canoe U. and living on boats for months at a time. ;-) As for Navy pilots being in better shape than AF pilots, there's simply no evidence that that's the case. Our pilots that play(ed) football would certainly disagree!

By LisafromNY on Thursday, December 19, 2002 - 09:13 am: Edit

Doc:

Good idea!! You can see that I have been brainwashed by the Canoe Club. The ALO for MD works out at my gym and the first thing he asked me was why Navy???...I said cause it is closer to Mommy..LOL

By AFforME? on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 11:29 pm: Edit

Docfrance, do you have an aol screen name? I am really interested in the academy and I would love to speak to someone who has first hand knowledge and experience with the academy. Thanks!

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 12:47 am: Edit

Yes, I do. It's docfrance12, but I won't be available to IM until tomorrow evening (8 Jan 03)at the earliest. I'm out of town at the moment, just checking e-Mail remotely...

By Asaah kenneth on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 08:47 am: Edit

Docfranc,i am really iterested in the accademy but i don't have access to it's detailed information and application form. please kindly send these to me as fast as possible.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 09:35 am: Edit

You can get all of that info at the Academy's website: www.usafa.edu go to the Admissions Office link. I'm not officially representing the Academy and don't have access to anything that's not available to you on-line. You can also find phone numbers at the website to call the admissions office directly if you have any questions.

By Kate G on Friday, January 10, 2003 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Docfrance,
I have my heart set on going to the AFA and have already begun sending letters to my senators. I will graduate this Dec., so I am applying for the class entering in 2004. I am currently living overseas (my parents work at the embassy). The opportunities that are available to me in terms of clubs and athletic activities are limited compared to what's available for most American high school students. I was wondering if living overseas will be a handicap when I apply to the Academy.
-Kate

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 11:45 pm: Edit

Not at all. Lots of kids apply to USAFA from overseas--especially kids of military and state dept parents. Just be sure to emphasize your participation in other activities, your cultural experiences, etc. Any language skills learned in-country will be a plus, too. If you've been in sports clubs (as opposed to school sports, if no opportunities for school sports exist) then be sure to mention these. If you even just do fun runs, mention them to emphasize your fitness level. Be sure to prepare and do well on the PAE (Physical Aptitude Exam).

By Kate G on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 01:34 pm: Edit

That is such a relief to hear that living overseas won't count against me! But what really is the most important thing that the Academy looks for? I know that athletics, academics, and leadership are all very important. It just seems like the Academy must get letters from hundreds of captains of the football team with 4.0s. Do they tend to pick the same type of students or do they look for diversity? When applying is it important to make yourself stand out, and if so how do you do that?

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 03:20 pm: Edit

That depends on what you mean by diversity... They don't want everyone to look alike or have the same talents, but they won't accept someone who's difficient in one area just to have a cadet who isn't good in sports, doesn't write well, etc. I think you just need to go into the process being very honest with yourself about your strenghts and weakness, realizing that while not every cadet is a 1600, 4.0, all-America with writing and leadership awards, that's the goal they (other other schools) will shoot for. In fact, almost all of them fall shy of perfection in every area, but a few are pretty darn close. Emphasize your strengths and commitment, work on your weaknesses and just hope for the best... Good luck!

By Kate G on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 05:39 pm: Edit

Thanks a lot Docfrance, you've been really helpful. You said that you were an astro. engineer prof. Can you tell me a little about the program at USAFA because truthfully that's one of the main reasons that I am so interested in the Academy. I love science and math, but physics most of all. I was told the Academy has one of the best undergrad. programs in the world. What makes it so great?

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 08:58 pm: Edit

True. The Astro Program is very unique. Cadets get hands on experience building real satellites (small ones) that are launched and then operated at a ground station, at the Academy, by cadets and faculty. The lab is fabulous, and there are summer research opportunities at real AF labs. The classes are small (usually a dozen or so) and the faculty has real operational and research experience in space. The classes you take are worth graduate credit at most schools--I transferred several into Stanford for my Masters. Go to www.usafa.edu and then the Dean's page to track down the Astro Dept web page for more info.

By Rob T on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:09 pm: Edit

I have a couple of questions. I was undecided going into my senior (that being this year, I grad. in May 2003) and thought about joining the military, particularly the Air Force and become a pilot. However, my guidance counselor suggested the Air Force Academy, since she thought my grades were high. Honestly, I am pretty average GPA wise, with a 3.7. I played varsity football, started last 5 games at WR. Play varsity soccer and am in the band. Now that all sounds good, but ultimately, I feel as though I am not intelligent enough to get in. I only scored a 1090 on the SAT and am not bothering with the ACT since they don't except those scores, and many people with a lot higher have been turned down over the years. I DID take the ASVAB and scored a 94 overall, I could tell you the breakdown scores if you like (just tell me if it is relevant or important, and I can get them in a day or so). Since the ASVAB everyone has contacted me about their military branch. But I was really set on the USAFA. Advice?

Also, it should be noted that I filled out the Precandite questionaire online last June, but haven't gotten anything from them. (is there anyway to make sure they got it) I sent out letters to my congressman and the Vice President, still waiting for a reply.

I appreciate your time and energy in replying to my legthy letter. Thank very much.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:18 pm: Edit

If you're a senior right now, scored 1090 on your SATs (USAFA does accept ACTs, by the way, and they do not consider ASVABs), completed a precandidate questionaire (that included you SAT scores), wrote your congressmen, and still haven't heard a reply from any of those sources, then I think it's a pretty safe bet that you're not being considered. Congressmen should've contacted you for interviews. Many (most) have already announced their nominations. If you have any questions about your status, I suggest you call the Academy admissions office. If you're still interested in USAFA, you can apply next year. Good college grades and improved SATs/ACTs will greatly improve your chances of acceptance.

By Rob T on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:26 pm: Edit

I apologize for not including this in my previous message.

I am taking regular courses, except for math, this is my 4th year of it, and I am taking Trig.

Sorry for the incovience

By Rob T on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:27 pm: Edit

Thank you for your time

By Rob T on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:37 pm: Edit

Okay, another question. Should I go into a college (most likely community because it is cheap) or go into the Air Force? Can you transfer from the Air Force to the Academy? And can much harder would it be to enlist and become a pilot?

Thanks again

By Rob T on Tuesday, January 28, 2003 - 10:41 pm: Edit

That last line should read -and how much harder would it be to enlist and then become a pilot?- sorry, was in a rush

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 06:13 am: Edit

Rob T,

There are several routes you can take to being an AF pilot. First, as I said earlier, you can apply to USAFA next year after a year at college. You don't technically "transfer" because you'd still have to spend all four years at USAFA. Second, you can go to a college that offers AFROTC, join that program, maybe earn a scholarship after a year or so, and then be commissioned. You can go to college on your own and then apply for Officer Training School after you graduate. Lastly, you can enlist and then either apply to the Academy after a year or so, or finish your degree during your enlisted time and then apply for officer training. In any of these cases, pilot training is not a sure thing. You'll have to pass physical exams and written tests, as well as pilot screening before you ever get to full-fledged pilot training. Statistically, going to the Academy is the most likely route, since most or all cadets that are physically qualified will at least get to the flight screening level, but I know AF pilots that have come through each of the routes I describe. I suggest you look over the AF's websites, visit a recruiter, and discuss each of these options. Good luck.

By Rob T on Wednesday, January 29, 2003 - 02:32 pm: Edit

Thanks

By Kate G on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 04:54 am: Edit

DocFrance,

Thanks for all the help. I found the astro engineering page and read about the program. To say that I was impressed is an understatement.

I have also visited the different senators' websites, but they don't offer much information when it comes to getting an appointment, they just list addresses. As far as nominations go, do senators look for something other than the qualities that the Academy expects. And is location a big factor? It seems that smaller states in terms of size or population would be less competitive. I'm from Texas so I was hoping that you could tell me what to expect. For example, interviews, timelines, ect. Do you know any grads or cadets from TX?

Again, thank you for helping all of us. Applying for college is a pretty daunting task. Its really great to have someone to answer our questions!
Kate

By Bekki Achey on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 09:03 am: Edit

DocFrance,
I'm really young to be asking but I have tons of questions! I'm in 8th grade and I recently looked up the AFA. Now it's the only thing I want to do in life. I get very good grades, especially in math and science, and I'm very athletic but I don't do much in the way of leadership stuff. Is that going to be an issue?

I really want to major in astronautical engineering, become a test pilot and then be an astronaut but do you think the AFA would be the best place for me to go? What should I do to start preparing now, mentally and physically?
How do you get on the AFA mailing list?
Thanks for your time,
Bekki

By igotpants on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 03:35 pm: Edit

damn, this is one old post

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 04:01 pm: Edit

Okay, I've been traveling for a few days and just got back home, so let's catch up...

First, for Kate G:
How competitive a state is for nominations depends ona lot of factors: location; presence of military in the area and overall awareness of the Academies; school systems; population, etc. The latter is especially true for senators' nominations. As for different requirements, each senator and congressman can give instructions to his/her selection board that shape how they make their choices. Of course, these can't discriminate in any way based on sex, race, religion, etc, but they may affect how they weigh SATs vs athletics vs leadership, how interviews go, etc. It's a bit of a crapshoot, but that's just a fact of life. If you're worried, try to find others in the area who've gone through the same process and get their feedback.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 04:04 pm: Edit

Bekki,

the Academy website has information for early high school and even middle school students (www.usafa.edu) Go the admissions area and look around. Is USAFA the best place for a degree in astro? I think that's obvious, but then as a former astro profressor there, I'm probably biased. I can tell you that on the uhdergrad level it's much better than what I saw Stanford or Virginia Tech (where I did my MS and PhD, respectively) and most of my colleagues that went to other schools agree. Don't get too excited right now. Just take tough classes, lots of math, do well, stay involved and informed and you'll be fine.

By Bekki Achey on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 07:20 pm: Edit

DocFrance,
Thanx a lot. Nice to hear a reassuring voice (my parents are somewhat skeptical about the military)!
Sorry but I just have two last questions.
After the AFA, can you become an astronaut immediately after grad school or do you have to be a pilot too? How hard is it to major in astronautical engineering and get a minor in mathetics too? Is that the best way to go or is just the major sufficient?
Thanks again
Bekki

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 07:41 pm: Edit

Bekki,
First, while it's not easy to do an Astro Major/Math Minor, it is doable. You'd have to have a very strong math background going into USAFA and then probably overload with some extra courses to do it, but it's been done before.
As for your second question, the route to becoming an astronaut is VERY difficult and not something one can schedule. On average, only about one member of each class (800-1000) becomes an astronaut. For most, that path has meant pilot training, a masters degree, flying time in the Air Force, selection to test pilot school, time as a test pilot, then selection by NASA. Each step is VERY competitive and only a few even become astronaut candidates. For engineers (non-pilots), the course is similar: graduation, engineering duty, masters degree in engr, selection for flight test school as a flight test engineer, work as a test engineer, then an application to NASA. That's how it's been done in the past. What the future holds, in light of recent events, is anyone's guess. My personal opinion is that the number of people (astronauts) we send into space will shrink and the whole idea of a manned component of the space program will be rethought. Putting people in space simply costs a lot of money and adds tremendous complexity and risk, ultimately reducing the amount of real work we can do in space. IMHO. We will, however, have a continuing and growing need for engineers working in space-related fields, both in the military and in NASA. The AF recently announced that they're paying $10K/yr bonuses to engineers after 4 years of service!

By Bekki A. on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Wow!!! I guess I'll just have to work really hard. It be a real shame if they stopped funding manned space operations. Thanx for your time, I really appreciate it.
Bekki

By KentTylerWhitney on Monday, February 10, 2003 - 11:15 pm: Edit

Hello Eveybody. I'm just here to do some stressing. Everthing I need to have in for the AFA and the CGA is in. I just want to get Doc France's opinions' on my chances. I'm at the point where I applied in november and have heard nothing since getting my nomination in mid/late Jan. I have a 1450 SAT, and 30 ACT. Top 25% Class Rank at a very challenging school (usualy top 10 got to ivys). My GPA is 3.8 or 3.7 (ouch but that's what you get for taking AP insted of honors). I also do 3 sports a year adding one a year every year since freshman year. (1 sport freashman year, 2 soph, 3 jun. 3 sen.). I am an EAGE Scout and Have more service hours than I care to count. However I did very poorly on the hidden evil of the kneeling basketball throw. Mediochre on the rest of the CFT. My DoDmerb cleared up fine after a problem with too much earwax (maybe that can be an excuse as to why i'm not listening). I know I'm rambling, but I'm starting to stress over this, and I have never stressed over much in my life.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 06:06 am: Edit

Kent,

I think your chances are very good--don't apologize for the gpa if you took all of the math and science, AP, etc, available. Did you pass the bball throw minimum? I think it's 54 ft or something like that. If you met the minimum there, then I think you'll be good. If not, then it's probably a coin flip. How about nominations? What kind did you get from your congressman and senators?

In any case, try not to stress out too much. You've done what you can, and now just wait for the (hopefully) good news!

By KentTylerWhitney on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 05:27 pm: Edit

Thanks,

Yes I met the minimum for the basketball throw. The other thing is I am more English/History oriented than Math/Science oriented. I have taken all Honors MAth/Science, and all AP English/History. I tried to take AP Statistics this year but it got filled up too quickly. Oh well. Thank you very much.

Stressing out- Kent

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 - 05:52 pm: Edit

I'd put money on you, Kent. Let me know when it comes through. Of course, I can't guarantee anything, and the first thing you learn about the AF is to assume nothing, but I like your chances...

By Bekki A. on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 03:56 pm: Edit

Hey it's me again,
I have a sort of random question. Do you know if they have equestrian sports? I work with horses (mostly dressage training) a lot and I was wondering if I could include that in my list of sports? Also, is it relevant if I play the violin well? Do they look at things like this?
Thanx,
Bekki

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 04:19 pm: Edit

USAFA doesn't have competitive equestrian sports. They do have riding stables on the base, though, and I believe there is a cadet rodeo club!

The fact that you play the violin well--or do anything particularly well--is considered positively when you apply. Maybe not as highly as at a liberal arts school with a student orchestra, but it's still a plus. You may be on your own playing the violin once you get there, unless you organize something on your own. Good luck!

By Rob T on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Hey again, it's me checking in. A couple more questions for you. Sorry about taking up so much of your time.

First, who do we see about the physical type forms with the testing? Right now I doubt I'll get in, but I plan to try again next year, and my understanding was that we got inspected "physically" when we got there. Then I saw something about passing the mininum on the Basketball throw, and I am beginning to wonder if I screwed up my application. Kent called it a CFT or something. Sorry if this is a pathetically stupid question, but I must have overlooked it, and that annoys me to no end considering how much time I spent writing the letters to my representatives in DC, reading requirements to get in, ect, in an attempt to get in and did not do a basic form.

Next, does the competitiveness of my school reflect my chances of getting in? I have a 3.73 GPA and am considered in the top 5%, but Kent stated that he had that or better and was 30%. Will that be reflected in my chances of getting in?

And finally, does it matter which sports I played or, how as my mother puts it "well-rounded" I am? Example: This year I have participated in Football, soccer, band, and robotics. Not impressive in my opinion, but my mother says differently. Shows the scope of your character and stuff like that. Also, my friend "said" that you get a boost if you have divorced parents, or they were together, I don't really know. But I was wondering if anything in that area would affect my chances.

Thank you very much, I appreciate your time and energy in doing this. In the future I'll try to keep my posts concise and to the point, rather than rambling.

By Rob T on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 05:08 pm: Edit

"Everthing I need to have in for the AFA and the CGA is in." Kent

What is the CGA? To either you or Doc, I would love to know.

"DoDmerb cleared up fine after a problem with too much earwax" Kent (again)

What is the DoDmerb?

Trying to keep them short

By Rob T on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 05:56 pm: Edit

Jeez, when it rains it pours.....
I thought I should toss this in since it is so fresh in my mind. I applied to the academy last year and filled out a PCQ form online and have chatted infrequently back and forth with the academy. Then this January, checking up on my file, I was informed that I did not have a file in their computer system, and was not being looked at. I was shocked, and tricked myself into believing that perhaps, in a pique of stupidity, I did not finish the form and sent it in incomplete. Luckily, I had printed it out after completion and had it filed away. I faxed it to them within the week, and they apologized profusely. However, I was wondering if have ever heard of something like this happening before? I'll try not to fill up your thread =P

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 06:31 pm: Edit

Rob,

Lots of questions! I'll try to answer most of them. Remind me of those I miss...

DoDMERB: Dept of Defense Medical Evaluation and Review Board--the folks that decide if you're medically acceptable, pilot qualified, etc.

The slip up with your form and the admissions office has happened before. This is why I think it's in a candidate's best interest to call the admissions office regularly, get the name of the person you're talking to, and have them tell you the "state" of your application. Are you missing anything? When will my file be reviewed, etc. Don't ask them about your chances, just amke sure they have all the info they need and that you've supplied.

CGA: Coast Guard Academy--he's applying there, too, I think.

Th Academy values class rank higher than GPA. They realize that GPAs can be very missleading from school to school and some schools are more competitive than others. They also have profiles on every school, virtually, and know which ones are more competitive. Your conselor can send a school profile to the Academy to insure they have one. It cites things like percentage that go to 4 year college, number of AP courses, average SAT, etc.

CFT: I think Kent used this term meaning "Cadet Fitness Test." The real terminilogy is PAE (Physical Aptitude Exam--the one you take to qualify for admission, and NEVER take again as a cadet) and PFT (Physical Fitness Test--that cadets take twice during BCT and twice a year after that).

I'll stop there for now. It's dinner time and I fixed Buffalo Chicken Wings. The beer's cold, too! Read this, refocus and rewrite your questions to cover what I missed. OK?

By Rob T on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 10:27 pm: Edit

Alright thank you.

For the CFT thing, is that something I should have done already? Or is that something they make you do once you have secured your nomination? Also, does a diversified background help and how it that evaluted? My previously mentioned activities are football, soccer, band, and robotics. (as of this year) Thanks again for your time, enjoy your dinner.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Saturday, February 15, 2003 - 10:39 pm: Edit

You don't take the PFT (there is no CFT) until you report to the Academy and are in Basic Training. The candidate and appointee guides should tell you more about that. If you have an appointment in hand, then it's a good idea to practice for the PFT before BCT (Basic Cadet Training). the PFT is pullups, standing long jump, pushups, situps and a 600 yard run, all done in 15 minutes. A diverse background is good, but I don't think it's necessarily better than being very good in a few things.

By Rachel on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 07:40 am: Edit

Wow, a lot happens if you don't revisit the threads for a few days!
Kent - I'm releived to hear someone else found the kneeling basketball throw evil - it was my lowest score on the PAE (I just passed the minimum). If it's any consolation, my ALO told me they don't pay much attention to it at the AFA (it's more important for the USNA and USMA, apparently). Has anyone else heard the same?

By KentTylerWhitney on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:25 am: Edit

My ALO said he always hated it (the basketball throw), and thought it should be removed. I don't know how important it is, but I cant beleve that the average was 12 feet longer than the minimum for guys, unless everybody applying is a football quarterback.

The test for the Coast Guard Academy is significantly different than the Physical aptitude exam for USAFA. It doesn't have a basketball throw, and it has a 1.5 mile run. It is the same as the test they take at the academy. Thanks for the reassureance Doc. I just found out that there is a whole extra packet of CGA stuff due in a month. Looks like I still have my work cut out for me.

By tom on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 05:24 pm: Edit

Docfrance,
My son is a junior and interested in attending the Academy. I think he has the sports, clubs, and service activities. His GPA and class rank are excellent. He is taking primarily honors or AP courses. He scored 750 on the verbal part of the SAT, but only 580 on the math. Math is not his favorite or strongest area. What are his chances of getting in and doing well at the Academy?
Thanks!
tom

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit

580 is definitely below avg at USAFA. The core curriculum is so math and science intensive that it might present a challenge if he got in. That being said, he's just a junior and I know people who've made it through with 580 Math SAT or a little lower. If he really wants to go and succeed--and be more competitive for a nomination and appointment--then he needs to buckle down, take some challenging math courses (Pre-Calc and AP Calc, if available), and do well, then retest.

By Rob T on Monday, February 17, 2003 - 09:29 pm: Edit

Question: Does a high SAT score in the math section offset taking regular classes?

Taking Trig, and got a 615 on the math portion. Just wondering. Thanks

By Kate (Kate) on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 11:47 pm: Edit

Docfrance,

I have calculated my GPA and I have a 3.2, which is very low by the Academy's standards. Some of these classes (including the equivalent of a college psychology course) in my second language. I am taking all advanced classes, with a focus on science and math. I know that this will not help my class standing because the GPAs are not weighted (and my school uses a different grading system). Will the Academy compare me to my peers that are taking classes that are easier and at lower levels? I know that well over half of the cadets were in the top 10% of their classes. This really worries me. Will the Academy consider the circumstances, and what can I do to make up for my low GPA?

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 09:44 pm: Edit

The gpa may hurt you, and the best way to make up for it is to show that you took the most challenging curriculum available and you did well on the SAT/ACT. Make sure your counselor sends along a school profile when your transcript goes in so they understand that gpas are not waited.

By Kate (Kate) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 10:17 pm: Edit

Is there a strategy as far as trying to get a nomination? Is it better to be one of the first to send in your information or one of the last? And how long should it take to receive a response?

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 10:53 pm: Edit

I'd always try to be among the first, then send updates as needed--shows your enthusiasm. Response time varies widely among congressmen/senators. You'll probably get aknowledgment that your application was received. If not, I'd call and ask for it two weeks after you send it. When you do this would also be a good time to find out about your congr/sen's particular schedule.

By Keith (Keith) on Thursday, March 13, 2003 - 10:43 am: Edit

Hey Marty,
how does the admission panel go?
Do they meet once a week? When a candidate is chosen that time, how long does it take for him/her to be notified?
Thank you.

By Jrad (Jrad) on Tuesday, March 18, 2003 - 08:17 pm: Edit

Wow! I just found this site this evening and it's wonderful. Here's my situation, tell me what you think. I am a senior is HS with a completed admissions file with the USAFA and whom has received the honor of being selected as the PRINCIPAL NOMINEE from my congressman here in florida. I was told by my congressman that I would be appointed to the class of 2007 as long as I meet all qualifications. SO--- here it is March 18th and I have not heard anything from the academy. My college assessment test scores are SAT 580/570 and ACT 26/28/27, GPA 3.9,,top 3% in my class, 2 year letterman in football and weightlifting,Beta Club, treasurer in Nat'l Honor Society,Key Club,part time employeed, and volunteer work. I passed my PAE and medical exam where I am potentially pilot qualified. So why havent I heard anything yet?
Thanks for your time

By Sirokai (Sirokai) on Monday, March 24, 2003 - 10:49 pm: Edit

It's possible that you didn't hear anything yet because they haven't received all of your medical information. They might not send anything until they get all the paperwork from the medical exams.

By Puzzled (Puzzled) on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 01:24 pm: Edit

My son takes zoloft for infrequent anxiety attacks. Would this preclude him from a service academy? thanks

By Puzzled (Puzzled) on Tuesday, March 25, 2003 - 01:24 pm: Edit

My son takes zoloft for infrequent anxiety attacks. Would this preclude him from a service academy? thanks

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 05:51 pm: Edit

OK, gang, just getting back home after a week and a half. I'll try to catch up...

Keith, panels meet every week or two. Ýou may get more than one look depending on the strength of your application. All accepted (appointed) cadets are notified immediately after their particular baord makes a decisions. All others are thrown into the alternate pile and may be considered by later boards. Those notifications may happen as late as mid-June!!!

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 06:05 pm: Edit

Jrad,

When you are notified depends on when your record meets an admissions board, and that depends on when your nomination is received from your congressman and when your file is complete. I suggest you call the admissions office to check on the status of your file/application. One more note... While your record looks generally good, you'd better be ready to study and study hard. Your SAT/ACT scroes are significantly below what the Class of 2007 will average. The Class of 2006's avg was 1310 on the SAT. You'd better bring your "A" game... Good luck.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 06:07 pm: Edit

Sirokai (AND EVERYONE),

Yes, it's possible that you're not hearing anything because your file is not complete for some reason. While the admissions office and your liaison officer MAY call you to remind you of something that is missing, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILIITY to make sure your file is complete and ready to meet the board. Assure yourself that is the case by calling the admissions office and asking the question!!!

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Puzzled,

While in the Air Force we occasionally may say "everything is waiverable," some waivers are much harder to obtain than others. Having taken Zoloft for anxiety issues is almost certainly a hard disqualifier for an appointment to the Academy. You may go ahead and apply, then see what they say, but I would not at all be optimistic. The same goes for those who have taken Ritalin or other ADHD drugs, and those that are on prescription asthma medication.

By Jrad (Jrad) on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 06:18 pm: Edit

Thanks, I'll be sure to do that. Those SAT scores were my 2nd try taken in September. I did'nt do any of the prep courses. My ACT scores fell in the 50% range. I did call my admissions counselor a week ago and they were waiting for my congressman to first notify me. Well my congressman was not re-elected and my records were not forwarded to the new congressman. I got my appointment letter March 20! I'm pumped and ready to go!!!

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 06:26 pm: Edit

Congrats, Jrad! If you see my son, who'll be a sophomore, don't say "hi!" "Good morning, Cadet France," would be more appropriate! ;-)

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 08:44 pm: Edit

I hope you don't mind if I ask a general question. I know that after ROTC you must serve for 8 years (whether active, reserve, or citizen soldier), and have a general question about the military. Do you get called up often, and/or move around a lot? Does your military life interfere with you getting an advanced college degree.

To be honest, I'm not considering AFA, but might go the ROTC route for the Army (don't want to join the AF, because I don't have 20/20). Any help would be appreciated...

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Thursday, March 27, 2003 - 09:36 pm: Edit

As far as I know, the active duty commitment for ROTC is 4 years, then, if you resign your commission you may have to serve some additional number of years in the reserve--I'm no expert on this. During those reserve years, it just matters what's going on in the world whether you'll be called up or not. There's no way to predict.

I can say that while you are active duty there are lots of opportunities to pursue advanced degrees, both full-time and part-time based on your particular specialty, job performance, and location.

Why would you go Army instead of AF just because you're not 20/20? There are still lots of great AF opportunities for those that aren't pilots--I've had a pretty good run, and I'm about 20/400!

By Kate (Kate) on Sunday, March 30, 2003 - 04:47 pm: Edit

Do you think that recent events will affect the number of applicants this year? On the one hand the Academy has been getting a lot of bad publicity due to the sexual assault reports, but on the other hand, the nation is at war and we are constantly flooded with images of American troops. A lot of people are feeling very patriotic right now. What effect do you think this will have?

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Sunday, March 30, 2003 - 06:12 pm: Edit

I don't expect a big difference. The scandal won't have much effect--I think most people realize that it's an unfortunate situation that was probably over-reported, that some changes need to be made and will, and that USAFA will go on...

By Hyomax (Hyomax) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 08:00 pm: Edit

Hi, this is my first time posting messages. I would love to get in to USAF academy (only wish) but I do not know exact steps to apply. I have about 3.8 ~ 9 GPA and ranking about 80 out of 440 students. I haven't take SAT yet, but my practice shows that I will probably get around 1350. Am I a strong applicant to apply for USAFA or not? I've heard that it is one of hardest college to get accepted in. I am also confused about nomination from Senators and stuff.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 10:08 pm: Edit

At first glance, it looks like you may have what it takes, Hyomax. I'll give you the advice I give all "first-timers" to the board: Go to www.usafa.edu and check out the admissions sections. They've got a good outline of what you need to do to get started. I'll be glad to answer specific questions you may have after you've done this. Good luck, and keep me posted...

By Hyomax (Hyomax) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 12:00 am: Edit

Hello again, thanks for the web site =). I am just wondering if USAFA is transferable from like community college or any Universities. And also, can I still apply to USAFA without Senator's nomination?

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Friday, April 04, 2003 - 06:31 am: Edit

You can transfer to USAFA from a CC or univ, but it doesn't reduce the requirement to stay at USAFA for a full 4 years. It may ease your academic load by transferring some credits, though.

For your second question, there are other types of nominations available, too. Of course, you can also apply to your congressional representative and to the vice president. Children of career military can apply for a presidential nomination. But, the bottom line is you must apply for and gain some sort of nomination from the list above before USAFA will consider you for admittance.

By Hyomax (Hyomax) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 04:41 pm: Edit

What should I do if I am an immigrant? I got my green card 2 years ago and must wait 3 more years to gain a citizenship. I asked this question directly to USAFA by e-mail but they are not responding to any of my letters =(.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 07:09 pm: Edit

You're not eligible for admission until you are a resident. That may take you out of the eligible age range, I know, but that's the rule.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 07:10 pm: Edit

Corrent that--I meant CITIZEN. Sorry for the confusion.

By Kate (Kate) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 10:53 pm: Edit

As far as grades go, is it preferable to have high grades in easy classes or lower grades in advanced/difficult classes?

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Saturday, April 05, 2003 - 11:24 pm: Edit

Probably the latter. B+/A- avg with lots of math/sci and APs, is better than A+ without things like physics, AP Calc, etc. Most applicants have both, though...

By Hyomax (Hyomax) on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 03:28 pm: Edit

If most applicants have both classes, does it mean they had those classes on their junior year?

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 04:34 pm: Edit

I meant that most applicants have both good grades AND a challenging schedule. Most recent data for those already offered USAFA ppointments for the Class of '07 are an SAT average of 1340 and a gpa (weighted) of 3.95. Most will take both AP Physics and AP Calc as seniors if the courses are available at their school.

By Hyomax (Hyomax) on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 10:35 pm: Edit

I don't have much hard class right now (1 honor and 1 AP class) but next year I am taking about 4 AP classes. So when we apply to USAFA, is senior year just as important as junior year?

Sorry for too many questions =)

By Hyomax (Hyomax) on Sunday, April 06, 2003 - 10:39 pm: Edit

I don't have that many hard classes this year (1 honor and 1 AP) but I am taking about 4 AP classes on my senior year. So when I apply to USAFA, is senior year just as important as junior year?

Sorry for too many questions =)

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 05:29 am: Edit

Yes, they'll see those on your transcript.

By Hyomax (Hyomax) on Monday, April 07, 2003 - 05:20 pm: Edit

OOPS sorry for same question!!

By Bud876 (Bud876) on Wednesday, April 09, 2003 - 08:04 pm: Edit

I知 currently 15 years old born into a military family and in 9th grade and making a 3.0 average in all honors classes in a really hard high school (Even the grading scale is difficult).
Grading Scale
94-100 A (4)
90-93 B+ (3)
84-89 B (3)
80-83 C+ (2)
74-49 C (2)
70-73 D+ (1)
64-49 D (1)
64 Below F (0)
I知 skimming through these post and I see many people making 4.0痴 and above and I really have my heart set on making it into the Air force Academy. I知 wandering if this year would maybe hold me back or keep me from getting into the Air Force Academy. I do have my mind set to buckle down and try to make a 3.5-4.0 average in the following years. I知 currently in CAP (Civil Air Patrol) as a C/Msgt and I have logged 40 hours of flight time in the air and around 5 are so in the simulator with my father who is both qualified to be an instructor for helicopter and single prop airplanes (He is currently a LTC in the Army). I know the basics of flying (enough to land and take off solo) and plan on getting my pilots license if I can bring my grades up my dad plans on teaching me how to fly and getting his own airplane (Piper Arrow). I知 also in JROTC as a C/Cpl first year squad leader about to get promoted to SGT. I do however score very high on my SAT痴 and the rest of the test at the end of the year I usually always score in the top 90% and I知 also very athletic compared to all my other classmates. I play football, baseball, and soccer.

Well I guess my main question is do I still have a chance making it into the AF Academy?

If I do what can I do to increase my chance in getting in?

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 06:16 am: Edit

Bud, yes you do have a shot at USAFA. You must improve your grades, though, and sign up for as difficult and challenging a curriculum as possible--lots of math, english, foreign language, science, etc. since your dad's active military, you'll qualify to apply for a presidential nomination, too, which will improve your chances somewhat. If you get your gpa over 3.5 and continue doing what you're doing, you'll have a strong chance--just don't waste any time! Keep up the sports, too, and work on getting varsity letters. Good luck!

By Keith (Keith) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 09:52 am: Edit

Just a trivial question: Is there any immigrants who had come to the U.S. after their age of 15, and got accepted to the Academy? If you don't know, is there any way to find that out?
Thank you.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 01:19 pm: Edit

If they are full-fledged citizens, yes. You must be a citizen to apply to a service academy.

By Bud876 (Bud876) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 03:58 pm: Edit

Thanx for the reply (I really like what you got goin here). I greatly appreciate it. I still have one more quarter to bring my GPA up. How would they determine my grades? If I were on a grading scale like 90-100A then my GPA would be a 3.7 instead of a 3.0. Will they take the hard grading scale into consideration and how about moving to different schools every other year? It really affects my SAT's scores (I still score high on them.)
Or
Would they just look at it like the school is easy and it moves its grading scale up so that it could be related to school that are harder and have a lower grading scales. (Hard to explain)

And the school I知 currently attending is not at all easy it's the most difficult school I have ever been too and I am taking the most challenging courses I took Geometry during summer and taking Algebra 2 in 9 grade with 11th graders.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Thursday, April 10, 2003 - 04:11 pm: Edit

They'll look at your transcript to see what courses you took, then they'll look at your gpa and class rank, then they'll see what grades you got in your tough courses. Most schools, when they send a transcript, include a page on grading policy, the percentage of kids from that school that go to 4-year colleges, and other stats. If your school does this, make sure your counselor includes this info when he/she sends your transcript. That will be the only way the Academy can judge how difficult your program is graded compared to other schools. My son's school had the same grading policy as yours. His gpa was closer to 3.5, but he still got in because of his tough course schedule and high SAT scores.

By Hyomax (Hyomax) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:40 pm: Edit

If you have to be U.S citizen, how can students from foreign country apply to USAFA as an international student?

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Friday, April 11, 2003 - 05:47 pm: Edit

They can't apply directly. At any given time there are 30-60 foreign students at USAFA, but they are all sponsored by their home country's Air Force. You'd have to apply through your home nation and if they have an agreement to send someone to USAFA, then you might be considered. Most choose someone already in their home country's AF or at their AF Academy.

By Rh_Mccjsc (Rh_Mccjsc) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 09:47 am: Edit

Does anyone know a Cadet or AF pilot that has recieved a DoDMERB wavier for a repaired ACL, if so who.

Thanks,
RH_MCCJSC

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Friday, April 18, 2003 - 11:28 am: Edit

No names, but with all the ACL surgeries that go on within the athletic teams at the Academy, I can't believe it's that uncommon...

By Hyomax (Hyomax) on Sunday, April 20, 2003 - 08:20 pm: Edit

I just tried to get the application for USFAFA, and when they ask if I am a citizen or not they have a link that says :

Air Force Academy Application and
The Air Force ROTC Scholarship.

You must be a citizen of the United States to apply for Air Force ROTC or the Air Force Academy. Noncitizens who can obtain United States citizenship prior to the end of their first academic term in college can apply for an Air Force ROTC scholarship. More detailed information on naturalization can be found at the Immigration and Naturalization>> website.

And i am kinda confused by 'end of their first avademic term...' Is this mean i can somehow obtain citizenship by ROTC scholarship? (since i am noncitizen)

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Sunday, April 20, 2003 - 09:03 pm: Edit

I really don't know. I'd contact them directly.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Sunday, April 20, 2003 - 09:03 pm: Edit

I really don't know. I'd contact them directly.

By Hyomax (Hyomax) on Monday, April 21, 2003 - 05:33 pm: Edit

Ok and by the way, do you know the average GPA for transfered students?

By Falconaf03 (Falconaf03) on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 01:52 am: Edit

Hey, this is the first time I have posted on this, but I was appointed to the Class of 2007 and received my appointment on March 25th. I'm really excited for June 26th to roll around the corner. I had a couple questions though. When you go to the Academy and can't take personal stuff, what essentials are you allowed to take with you? Also, is in-processing and BCT a real shock to most people? Any suggestions to a future cadet? Thanks a lot.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 07:45 am: Edit

1. Hyomax -- at least a 3.5 average for those that come in with prior college credits is a good bet.

2. Falconaf03 -- Congrats on the appt. You're now Falconaf07. For in-processing you bring the clothes on your back and what the Academy tells you to bring. Nothing else, nothing more. They'll give you a list. Simple is best. Where running shoes, socks, shorts and a T-shirt. You won't see these for many months afterwards.

Suggestions: Keep a sense of humor, don't whine, keep busy so you don't think about home too much, realize that over 30,000 have successfully completed what you're about to start--so it's not THAT hard an impossible, stay humble, keep your head low, and always, always, ALWAYS strive to do your best, honorably. Do those things and you'll be a success at USAFA. Oh, yeah, stay in GREAT shape and do a lot of running, pull-ups and push-ups between now and then...

By Jdean (Jdean) on Sunday, April 27, 2003 - 11:52 pm: Edit

Docfrance,

I'm a former AOCS commisioned Naval Aviator whose 15yr old daughter is starting to consider service academies. She will probably be competitive if she choses to apply. She's taking the AP track in private school and maintaining a 4.0. She's also running track and has been taking flying lessons for the last 18 months (airplane and sailplane). I frankly have some misgivings about a military career for her, but I will fully support any direction she choses. I wonder if you could address a couple of questions for a concerned dad.

First, does the AFA give preference to females in the application process? And is the AF a good place for a female to serve? I love the Navy and loved my time there, but I thought it was not the best place for a girl to fly. It may have changed in the 12 years I've been out, but unfortunately I wouldn't be thrilled to see one of my daughters flying in the Nav. I had assumed that the AF would be a better place for a female to fly, but the recent AFA rape scandal makes me wonder. I'm sure that you are disappointed as well. I'm just looking for an opinion on the current atmosphere.

BTW. I got to train and fly with the AF on many occasions. It was always a professional and fun experience.

Jeff

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 05:49 am: Edit

Jeff,

1. Not that I'm aware of. In fact, it may be a little tougher.
2. I think the whole scandal at USAFA has been blown way out of hand. While any assault is a tragedy, the overwhelming majority of cases involved alcohol and fraternization that aren't allowed anyway. There were 56 cases reported over 10 years. Harvard had 200 LAST YEAR according to a Washington Post article last week. My view is that the whole thing is really more of a leadership issue that is being solved than a pervasive atmosphere condoning sexual assault. Anecdotal information from male and female cadets I know support that. Most were as shocked by the accusations as we were. As you know, there are always a few bad apples in even the most rigorously selected group and unfortunately, this time they grabbed the headlines. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't hesitate to send her to USAFA or any of the service academies.

Best of luck to your daughter!

By Jdean (Jdean) on Monday, April 28, 2003 - 09:29 am: Edit

Thanks Docfrance. My daughter is just in the early stages of making a decision of her future direction. She's actually considering the Coast Guard as well. I plan on taking her for some campus visits this summer to give her more info.

By Hyomax (Hyomax) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 12:55 am: Edit

Hi I just have questions regarding AFROTC. I have heard that if you are not enlisted to Academy, you can still pursue your education and a career as an Air Force officer. What are the requirements to attend AFROTC? Will i be in disadvange compare to those of who got into Academy at first place?

Max

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 05:06 am: Edit

No, you won't be at a disadvantage. ROTC grads, including the current Chief of Staff of the AF, do very well. Go to www.afrotc.com for details about ROTC--I'm by no means an experts on that.

By Fighterpilot1 (Fighterpilot1) on Tuesday, April 29, 2003 - 05:34 pm: Edit

Hello. I have dreamed of being a fighter jet pilot and commander on a space shuttle since I was five years old. For the past four years I have been wanting to go to the AirForce Acdemy. I am currently at the end of my junior year and I am a female. I just wanted to let you in on my background and see what you have to say about my chances on getting in. I have a 4.5 GPA and by the end of the first quarter I should be #1 in my class, but currently I am #6. There are limited AP classes at my school, but I have taken all AP and honors classes available to me. This summer I will probably take a class or two at the community college. My school isn't one of the best though. It is very inter-racially mixed which has given me good experience with all different types of cultured peple. I take the hardest classes at my school available. Currently I am in AP Calculus, AP English Language & Composition, and AP American History. I have got straight A's all year. Next year I am trying to take 4 AP classes. I have been in four clubs for three years. I'm charge of propaganda this year for my Ecology Club and will be president next year. I am in National Honor Society. My sophmore year I played varsiy soccer. This year I played varsity golf, captain and MVP, along with flag football. Next year I plan on playing golf, which I wil be captain, and flag football again along with working. I have had a job every year since freshman year. Currently I am Area Supervisior of a growing business and work at a restaurant on the weekend to help out my mother with bills. I was a firefighter explorer for a few months and have recived lifeguard certification. By senior year I should have about 200 community service hours and by the end of senior year even more. I have won 1st place in three schoolwide essay contests. I worked on my junior class homecoming float. My freshman year I helped put together a mock DUI and was in the presentation. My current SAT scores are an 1130, but I am going to take it again next month and my ACT. I haven't applied for nominations yet, but I am a precandidate for the AirForce Academy. I had a problem last year with my physics teacher and stopped going to the class. That resulted in an F. I am retaking it next year, first semester, since we finally got a new physics teacher. After I retake that I should be #1 in my class, but we don't get report cards until november. Should I say I am #1 in my class anyways? How big of a difference do you think being #6 to being #1 is? Maybe I should have the principle or guidence director write a note about the situation. I apologize for this being so long, but I would appreciate any advice you might have being this is my life long dream.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Wednesday, April 30, 2003 - 10:31 pm: Edit

No. Don't state something that you aren't and can''t be sure you will be. You will have considerable trouble getting into USAFA with your current SAT scores. The avg for the entering class this summer is over 1320. #1 or #6? How many in your class, total?

By Fighterpilot1 (Fighterpilot1) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 03:39 pm: Edit

i am currently #6 out of 594, but after i retake my physics class i will be number 1 or 2 and my guidence director could vouch for it. i am retaking the sats june 7th. i know i will do better. i will take it over again if i have to in order to get the scores i need. one of my friends got a letter form the acadmey today at school and he never even applied or anything. he got a 1320 on his sats. is it considerablly harder for women to get in?

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Thursday, May 01, 2003 - 05:52 pm: Edit

1. Do NOT (under any circumstances) state a projected class rank or ask anyone else to do so. That's called a LIE. I don't understand, frankly, how you can be so sure you'll get an A and move up in rank in a class like physics before you retake it. State the facts as they are when you submit your work.

2. It is not considerably harder for women to get in. That's something that varies a little every year. Generally, it's not much of a factor.

Your friend got a letter because a 1320 is competitive for admission.

Good luck on your retake--and in physics. I'd also suggest working on the attitude, because someone who just decides not to go to physics and takes an "F" in the course will not succeed at a military academy without making some very serious personal changes. Sorry if that comes off a little too frank, but I call 'em as I see 'em.

By Fighterpilot1 (Fighterpilot1) on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 05:10 pm: Edit

i wouldn't lie. just by the time the actual report card comes out i would of already of had to send out my application but grades would already be in. i'm not a liar especially if a principle or guidence counselor wrote a letter. it was just a question...that's all. if i get straight a's next quarter...even if other people do then my class rank will go up to at least what i was (#2) because i have gotten all the grades to keep up the rank i have. also only two other people in my grade are taking as many ap classes as me. look i'm just trying to see what the best thing for me to do is. i didn't just stop going to physics...the teacher was mentally abusive and isnt working at my school anymore, but my mother told me not to go to the class and i had no choice but to take the f until i retake it. i know 1320 is competitive but i just would of thought that he would of had to write to the academy or something of the sort. be as frank as you like...it doesn't bother me. these are questions i wanted answered and that's what i got. so when did you graduate from the airforce academy and what did you major in? what did you get on your sats if you don't mind me asking.

By Docfrance (Docfrance) on Friday, May 02, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Thanks for the explanation. Is it clear, though, that claiming a class rank you do not currently have, that's based on assuming you get an A in a class is not being truthful. Another term for that is "quibbling." Don't do it. Whether you're #2 or #1 or #6 or #15 in a class of over 500 won't make a hill of beans difference to the admissions board. Top 5% is good enough. Your SATs are much more important at this point, and most likely to keep you from getting a nomination or an appt. When you get an "A" you can send a letter with your revised class standing--better yet have your counselor do it--and send me an e-Mail saying you told me so.

I graduated in 1981, double majoring in Engineering Mechanics and Engineering Sciences. I took the ACT not that SAT and don't recall what my scores were.

By Parentsc (Parentsc) on Wednesday, June 16, 2004 - 01:36 pm: Edit

Are you still out there?
I just found this website and hoped to still find you. If you are --
I have a rising senior. He has a GPA 3.8 ish, Math 720, Verbal 600. Has taken Physics Honors (A), Trig/Pre-Calc (A-), taking AP Physics, AP Calc BC, AP Computer Science next year. Has been Track Team Captain, has earned 5 Varsity Letters for XC & Track , Eagle Scout, National Honor Society, Math Honor Society Business HOnor Society, and FBLA member. Has already filled his application with the AFA, got an intial positive letter back, (dont know if those go to everybody or good potentials). Have a chance at Presidential nomination, working on congressional and sentor packages. How do presidential nominations work? What is the next step, are there little indications that help you relax if you will make it or not? Have to schedule his physical this week. What do you think?

Thanks
Sandy

By Gorgeousblues (Gorgeousblues) on Thursday, July 29, 2004 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Is it really hard to live with someone who's in the air force? Do these marriages work? I'm in love with someone in the air force, he's even proposed, but im wondering if those marriages ever last.