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Discussion continued from Part 6.

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By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Mtheatremom,

I can tell you what happened last year. Approximately 3000 kids applied to Tisch for drama and auditioned. Approximately 300 were admitted. Of those 300, approximately 60 were chosen for CAP21 which is Tisch's MT studio. There are seven main studios at Tisch and only one is for MT. I posted this in another thread and I'd just like to add one thing. Keep in mind that not all of those 3000 applied for MT. The majority want drama, not MT. I don't know how many actually auditioned for MT but perhaps Tisch would give you those figures. I don't know. The day you audition you have to indicate which studio you'd like. Some kids say only CAP21, others say CAP21 but they'd be willing to be placed in one of the other six studios. So I don't know exact numbers, but it's very selective obviously with those numbers.

By Wct (Wct) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 11:36 pm: Edit

Emilyp114-
I know that the studios where Tisch students are assigned, (like Stella Adler, CAP 21, etc.) are studios that also accept people from outside of NYU. Are the classes mixed or do NYU students have their own class?

As you stated in your post 60 students were chosen for CAP 21. Do the students feel they get enough personal attention? Are the 60 students broken down into smaller groups for their classes?

By Thecritic22 (Thecritic22) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 02:03 am: Edit

3000? I went to an NYU informational meeting and they said that Tisch had a 25% acceptence rate. I thought it was too high, but they assured me that the drama program took one out of four.

By Thecritic22 (Thecritic22) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 02:14 am: Edit

Also, do they ever defer students into the regular school? I have fairly high stats (1530 SAT), and I was debating whether to apply to NYU college of arts/sciences or Tisch. I settled on Tisch due to my love for the stage, but I would still love the opportunity to be in New York to study Political Science if I am not accepted.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 08:15 am: Edit

Emily, since we are at it asking you questions...here is mine....

So, you get into NYU and THEY assign you a studio. Let's say you apply ED even. And that you want to major in musical theater. And then if they do not put you into Cap21 but another studio, does that mean you can no longer do voice/dance but just focus on acting? I mean I cannot see just giving up musical theater if that is your main talent/aspirations. And you apply not knowing which studio you will get, unlike other places where you apply for musical theater and you either get in or not. Could you give your thoughts on this? Also if you are in a different studio other than Cap and you are very very into musical theater, do you get anything in those areas or just focus on acting.

As I have mentioned before, my daughter has had her heart set on that school, mostly cause of knowing so many kids who go there that are older than herself and ones entering next year as well. She has had this influence for years and so before ever looking into colleges, so it is already colored by wanting that school. She also is craving to be in NYC. I have not really looked into colleges for her yet (have a senior now so one at a time) but she is chomping at the bit and really wants to apply next year and graduate early which is a much bigger issue that I won't get into. But she now has taken it upon herself to research the whole thing to make a case for herself (with us). I know we can easily ask people we know at Tisch but just would love your perspective on those questions. Over the holidays, my daughter stayed at the house of someone who goes to Cap21 and lives in Florida and talked of her experiences.

Susan

By Gadad (Gadad) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 08:22 am: Edit

Where do you all think you can "have it both ways" in MT? My daughter, a HS sophomore, is a talented vocalist and lives for musical theatre. But she's also got good academic credentials (4.0 / 1400) and would like to be in a strong MT program at a selective university with enough flexibility in the MT curriculum to get a decent liberal arts core. There are a number of top-notch music-based MT programs at schools that aren't very selective academically. Carnegie Mellon is a fine university, but its MT curriculum has almost no academic component.

Where can you come closest to finding a balance? Our leading candidates so far are NYU-Steinhardt, Michigan, and Northwestern's MT certificate option in their Vocal Performance degree.

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 10:23 am: Edit

Soozievt and others,
We asked my daughter last year when she was a jr. what would she rather get into: her top ivy league school (SAT 1450; GPA weighted 4.6) or lowest musical theatre school? She of course wanted whatever MT program she could get into.

When it came time to apply to all those schools this past fall, the NYU-Tisch early decision decision came up. After calling the Tisch dept. and the NYU admissions office at least 2 times each, I got the same pat answer: Early Decision is binding, we cannot guarantee which studio...We even visited there last spring and asked those questions and got the same rehearsed answer...
Therefore, she is applying regular decision to Tisch and auditioning at the "advanced dance" audition of which there are not that many.

What I have learned after our decision was made, was that at the audition, they do ask you if you only want Cap 21. However, with all that said, earlier when we needed to know, noone would go over these options with me in the above offices that I called, much less in person at the on-site campus visit (so what we had to go on by Nov. 1st is different than what we know now.) Maybe you will have better luck with your daughter next year with the ED decision! -Mtheatremom

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 10:38 am: Edit

Ok, lots of questions here. I'll try to answer them all quickly because I don't have a ton of time right now.

Wct,

All of the studios that Tisch uses for its drama program are professional acting studios which yes, also have outside students. No, there is no mixing between Tisch students and the others. I haven't talked to anyone at Tisch who doesn't feel that they get enough individualized attention. Within the studio classes, the 60 or so kids, are then again broken down into smaller classes. My studio class has approximately 13 kids. So yeah, you can't beat that for attention.

Thecritic22,

It's quite possible that they told you that Tisch has a 25% acceptance rate. But that's 25% for all of Tisch, not just the drama program. The other programs in Tisch have higher rates and from what I've been able to gather, are more lenient on academic stats. I was talking simply of the drama department and these were the figures for the year I was admitted. They gave us these figures at our orientation so I can only assume they're accurate. No, students are never "deferred" into another program. That doesn't happen for any NYU applicants in any college, with the exception of CAS, where occasionally some students whose stats don't quite make it are assigned into the General Studies Program for two years. This does not happen to Tisch applicants. At NYU, as you probably know, you can only apply to one college.

Soozie,

Ok perhaps I didn't explain that clearly before. When you audition, they ask you which studio you'd prefer. If you want MT, you'd say CAP21. They will also ask you if you would be willing to accept a studio other than CAP21 if you don't make it in there. Some kids say yes, some say no. There are some kids who would like MT but are more interested in being at Tisch 'period' than only being in CAP21. If you're in one of the other studios, you would have opportunities to do some voice and with one studio in particular there's some singing. It will in no way compare to CAP21, though. So, if you only want CAP21, then tell them that when you audition and you'll get a yes or no answer. I don't know anyone who didn't get the studio they wanted in drama, except some CAP21 kids. It's not a case of applying and not knowing what studio you'll get. If you specify CAP21 and you audition for that, then it's no different than applying at any other school. You either get in or you don't. As I said we all get classes in speech, voice, movement, etc. and one studio, I believe it's Strasburg, has definite singing classes and some dance but like I said, it won't be the same as CAP21. Just for what it's worth, I would not recommend anyone come to Tisch who is going to be a year or more younger than most kids here. Even if that kid is used to being around older kids, or has friends who are already here, I don't think it's a good idea. There are pressures here and an atmosphere that I honestly don't think would be conducive to a 16 or 17 year old. Not to mention the living in the city part, especially if she's used to a small town. Just my two cents.

Gadad,

I can tell you that at NYU, you can have it "both ways", which is what I'm doing. I'll be double majoring in English/Creative Writing along with my Tisch drama major. You must be a Tisch major first though. They do not allow majors in other NYU colleges to double in Tisch. It will mean a heavier workload than normal but it's what I was looking for when I started researching colleges. I definitely wanted that academic component, as did my parents, and I can get that at NYU. It truly was the best fit for me.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 10:44 am: Edit

GaDad, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. My daughter is a vocalist first...lives for musical theater....but has fabulous grades and she's been in "gifted" or honors classes her whole school career. Her GPA 4.2 (weighted) and as yet unknown SAT/ACT will get her into selective schools. But with Musical Theater being sooooo selective, it seems all those good grades don't matter much...EXCEPT at the schools you mention. It is a tough call and I"m trying to get over the fact that she may not be at a school I would have chosen for her...but one that wants her for her musical theater talents primarily...not her grades. It is what she lives for though, and how can you deny that?
From my research, besides those you mention, Emerson has a good honors program for fine students...but we were disappointed in the vocal aspect there. Take a look at Penn State too...we're still looking at them too. Good luck!

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Gadad and Musicalthtrmom--

UCLA could be good. Your grades don't matter much for getting in, but once you are in, you must take the general ed required by the UC's. You can even minor in something else.

And a side note to Gadad - having a 1400 as a sophomore is quite impressive. I'm sure by the time she's a senior she could raise that up even higher, though, with SAT or ACT.

In a totally different vein, I have a plea for some advice. Basically, my mom doesn't realize that the presige of the musical theatre program at a school doesn't necessarily equal the prestige of the school itself. She keeps telling me that a degree from UCLA or UNT will take me farthest in life, though I am applying to other musical theatre schools which may (or may not) have better programs for me. She has no idea why, with my grades, I would want to go to a place like OCU. It's incredibly frustrating. It's also hard because I have done most of this process on my own (research, applications, scheduling, preparation, etc.) and she really doesn't know what's going on. At the UCLA audition, someone asked her if "[her] daughter wanted the B.A. or the B.F.A." She would have had no idea what the person was talking about if I had not expressly briefed five minutes before arriving, because I didn't want her talking about UCLA's fine arts degree in musical theatre (when in fact they offer a B.A. in theatre) while at the audition.

My question is twofold: (1) Is this a pretty normal level of parental involvement, or am I just being petty? (2) Any advice on what I can tell her to show her that a degree from a place like OCU would be absolutely fantastic and beneficial?

Thanks guys.

Shauna <-- who is at home sick with that nasty cold she caught at the audition

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 01:13 pm: Edit

Shauna,

I know what you are talking about with your mom. It took a few years for my husband to realize my MT daughter was not going to go to Duke or somewhere. In fact this fall he was still talking about those schools, but, their applications lay empty on the table - unopened.

Like I mentioned earlier, my daughter would rather go to an MT school than anywhere. If thats your dream, then you need to look at which schools have the MT programs you like and then you audition!

Its also confusing b/c each school offers a different degree with a different focus, ie OCU: has a BM in music; CMU: BFA on drama; CCM: BFA in music, etc...

I applaud your level of involvement. Your Mother is still kind of stuck in what she thinks is best for you and waht she personally wants for you. Go to the OCU website, go to Kristen Chenoweth's, Julie Hanson's, and Kelli O'Hara's websites etc. It will educate her. She just doesn't have enough information...

P.S. Also, go online and check out from the bios where the cast members went to school...

-Mtheatremom

By Peggy (Peggy) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 01:21 pm: Edit

Shauna -- This is my opinion, as one mother who is trying to navitgate through a musical theater world that she knows absolutely nothing about.

I don't know how involved most parents are. The parents in this discussion group are very involved, or else they wouldn't be in this discussion group!

And I have to say I'm very impressed on all that you've done. As much as I love my daughter, if I wasn't pushing her every step of the way, I'm not sure she would have had ANY applications done. It's not that she doesn't care, she's just not into "details". She decided which colleges she might want to apply to. I found out exactly what she needed for each audition, scheduled the dates so that things didn't conflice too much, and printed out information from this group so that she would know what to expect. (You know, 99% of what *I* know is what I've learned from you people. I really hope you all know what you're talking about!, she said with a smile.)

As for getting a degree from a prestigious MT school, in this house, it was the oppisite. I had to convince Stephanie that you can get good training in Michigan or Oklahoma. She wanted to head straight for NEW YORK CITY the day after she graduated. (NYC is in all caps because, to her, it is the center of the universe.)

One more comment. I'm not sure that my daughter knows what kind of degree she hopes to get. She knows she wants to major in MT, but as for the BFA, I don't know if she knows that. I know that when I went to college (back in the old days), I knew I wanted to major in Special Ed, but I don't know if I knew that I was getting a B.S. Just my 2c worth.

Peg

By 5pants (5pants) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Shauna,

You sound like an incredible young woman. I can't imagine assuming all the responsiblity of researching and applying to schools compounded with audition preparation...etc., throw in school maintainence and extra curric. I am the mother of twin sons who are pursuing either acting or musical theatre BFAs....each of us in the family have assumed a role. It has become quite a family effort. This has worked best for our family...doesn't mean this is the "norm". You are gaining great strengths by assuming such responsibilities...I just hope you don't stress out.

Your mother should be very pleased that you have found a path to travel. So many kids these days don't have goals. I don't know what you could tell your mother to help her see things differently. So many times, people...especially parents...have their opiniated minds made up and convincing them differently is difficult.

Personally, I understand how good the program at OCU is simply because I have been reading about it on this thread for quite some time now and that drove me to research it. Perhaps your mother needs to be included in your research...if not too late. That may make her feel more open and educated to your choices.

I appreciate you sharing your audition experience at UCLA...I copied it for my guys to read. No, they are not auditioning at UCLA, but any experience to share with them is valuable.

Good Luck Shauna....you are a daughter any mother would be proud to call hers. Hope you are feeling better real soon!

5pants

By Ohiomom466 (Ohiomom466) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 03:08 pm: Edit

My S was also at Point Park on Friday. Does anyone know anything about Boston Conservatory? He is auditioning in Chicago on Feb.2.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 03:12 pm: Edit

Ohiomom466...what do you want to know about Boston Conservatory? My daughter and I visited this summer. School was not in session. My biggest impression was that they offer very little, if any, financial aid and the cost is $30,000+ per year. Very small school. Very urban, of course. No academics really...just voice, acting, dance. Specific questions?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 04:11 pm: Edit

Soozie, my former neighbor's daughter who was often in workshops with my S when he was much younger, is now at Tisch. She did not get into CAP21 which was her first choice. She loves where she is and does do MT in that studio, takes voice and dance as well as acting. Now what she has told my son is that if you want CAP21, you had better apply early. The spots fill up fast. I have not been able to confirm this statistically, that is find a breakdown for CAP21 or for Tisch in ED vs RD and what percantage of the class is filled early. In your daughter's case because she is so young she could apply ED requesting only CAP21. If she does not get in, she can go with other options, though probably not at NYU if I understand the process--don't think they will permit a second app RD to Tisch or Steinhardt, but you can ask. Or since she is so young just try again next year where she has a bit more pressure to get in since she'll be of age. No sense for her to go somewhere that is not just right at this point. Time enough for that scenerio. She'll have the advantage of knowing exactly how the audition works at that time and she can then entertain going to other studios if she doesn't get in again.
For S, it is more complex. If he states it is his one and only, he would be eliminating NYU from his choices. But he goies ED without stipulating this as his choice, he could end up in a studio that he would rather wait and weigh against other choices (ha, if he gets any, with these numbers, I can't believe I'm even writing this strategy--but you know what I am getting at)Your D may even be able to defer her acceptance if all works out and you decide she really is a bit to young. Emily is pretty direct about that issue. But that is one for the parenting team to decide.
Emily, if you can ferret out specific ED breakdowns for Tisch and the studios, please share them with us. You have been a treasure for all of us. Thank you ever so much for all of your help.

By Laurenz (Laurenz) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 05:18 pm: Edit

gadad,

My son is a freshman at Emerson College in Boston and is in the honors program there, as well as a musical theater major. The honors program is very demanding and encompasses many subjects outside his major. He is getting a top-notch education that is making for a very smart actor. This is a highly-selective liberal arts\communications school that has a wonderful musical theater\theater program, as well as film majors, business majors, etc. I would highly recommend you look into Emerson if your child is looking for a challenge.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Mtheatremom,

What do you mean by the advanced dance audition at Tisch? Is that for a dance major? I'm still trying to find MT programs that help (by including it in their program) their students to keep up their "advanced dance" skills.

And, was it Shauna or someone else who said UCLA doesn't look at high grades? What?!!!! UCLA is all about grades and SAT scores. Period. This is far more important than anything and it is a research institution first and foremost. MT is a brand new addition, like a stepchild in some ways. I hope that doesn't sound rude to contradict someone like that, but I didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea. Or did I read the post wrong (could be !)?

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Hi Musicalthtrmom,

I am glad to hear someone knows something about Boston conservatory.
How many freshman do they take in MT? Also, what's the breakdown of boys admitted and girls admitted?
What do they consider most important in the audition, voice or acting? Interesting, I see there is no dance component to the audition.
Is their promotion situation the same as CCM's board review - is it as difficult to actually graduate there?
What's the graduation retention rate - do you know?
Does anyone out there personally know of someone who graduated from Boston Conservatory's MT program?
Thanks so much!
-mtheatremom

By Umiami (Umiami) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 06:12 pm: Edit

anyone know about university of miami business? how are the students and student life?

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 07:34 pm: Edit

Thanks to all for the support/advice. I guess I'll just keep plugging away at her! :-)

Mtmommy--

I'm not sure where you got your information about UCLA, but the fact that UCLA's MT department does not look heavily at your grades came directly from the mouth of the vice-chair of the theatre, film, and television department when he spoke at the orientation for the musical theatre auditions this past weekend. UCLA *is* all about grades and SAT scores for the rest of its departments, but for musical theatre, I can guarantee that the most heavily looked-upon thing is your audition. He expressly said that the only grades the department cares about are what you got in your fine arts courses.

Perhaps you didn't realize I was talking about the MT program, but otherwise I'm afraid you are mistaken.

Shauna

By Monkey (Monkey) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Musicalthtrmom and gadad,
Penn State does indeed offer a wonderful option for the serious MT student who also wants a strong liberal arts education. The Schreyers Honors College provides a demanding curriculum while still being able to pursue a BFA in a Music Theatre program that rivals many "elite" schools. Anyone looking at schools on the east coast should check them out.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 09:20 pm: Edit

Shauna,

I hope for the sake of a lot of people that you're right. Nevertheless, UCLA's admissions office very curtly informed me that the MT department sends the list of accepted students to the admissions office and the admissions office makes the final determination. The woman I spoke with who shall for her physical safety remain nameless (what a haughty twit)insisted that students must be accepted by the admissions office ALSO and that all the same standards apply regarding grades and SAT scores (that's both SAT I and II). I verified this information with the MT people who said that this is true; they make their own list and then it's up to the university as a whole to admit people. UCLA has become notorious here in southern CA for being very idiosyncratic about who they let in. I'm very surprised that you're hearing something so radically different. And really, I find it hard to believe because it provides a chink of sorts to their admissions armor, even with the horrendous odds against MT hopefuls. So, if what they are telling you is true, it's something the university as a whole is denying. Would it be advisable to find out the average GPAs and test scores of freshmen in MT to know the answer for certain? One other thing about UCLA, it's not for anyone who wants an actual dance component; it's a singing and acting program.

By Dramaqueen22 (Dramaqueen22) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 09:36 pm: Edit

Another quick question I was wondering if most of you, when auditioning, used basically the same monologues and songs for all the auditions or if you had to have a lot of different pieces and select specific ones for certain schools. I'm starting to work on my little portfolio of pieces and I wasn't sure how many I should be looking for. Thanks!

- Amanda

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 09:52 pm: Edit

Mtmommy--

Perhaps the connection is that an MT applicant has to meet the basic qualifications to get into a UC, but not necessarily meet the high standards that a UC like UCLA demands for the rest of its departments. Even then, though, I was under the impression that it could be negotiated somewhat. He said that as long as you meet the the basic qualifications to get into a UC, it's no problem...and they have been known to admit people that didn't even meet these requirements. Also, I assume that this applies not only to MT applicants, but to everyone applying to theatre, film, and television.

I am 100% positive that we were told at orientation that the only grades that mattered were fine arts courses. So either the admissions office at UCLA is trying to cover up how the process works, or the theatre department is downplaying how much grades matter.

It's incredible that there is this much discrepancy between the admissions office and TFT, because there were about four or five questions posed by parents/students on the subject at orientation. I even asked if he could give an actual percentage as to how much grades and the audition were weighted and his response was (almost word-for-word, as I remember it): "It varies. It's really crazy of me to even give a percentage. We don't care about your math and science grades, just as long as you do well in your fine arts courses."

Hrmph.

Shauna

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 09:56 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,

I was chatting online tonight with a friend while reading this thread. This particular friend auditioned for UCLA so I was asking her about this admissions issue. She told me that as far as she knows, the MT applicants have to have all of the same kind of "stats" as any other applicant to UCLA. She looked it up on their website as we were chatting and this is what it says there:

The Department of Theater admits new students once each year in the Fall Quarter, at both the freshman and junior levels. Applicants must satisfy the general freshman or transfer admission requirements of the University of California as well as the additional admission requirements established by the Department of Theater. All applicants must submit the Application for Undergraduate Admission to the University of California and the additional required supporting materials directly to the Department of Theater.


So, it would appear from those statements, that you are correct in assuming that the academic ability is also required in addition to the audition. It's frustrating when you get different information depending on who you're speaking to, isn't it? I know we had that happen at NYU, too, and it drove my parents crazy.

Jamimom,

You're welcome for any help I can give. I'll see what I can find out about E.D. vs. R.D. but I truly have no idea myself. I'll let you know if I can find anything on that.

Amanda,

I think that depends on the applicant. In the months prior to my audition, I played around with several monologues before finding the two that I wanted for Tisch. I had a couple of back-ups but I concentrated on those two once I'd decided to apply E.D. The thing you have to keep in mind, though, is that if you're applying to several schools, you'll have to be familiar with the requirements of those schools. Sometimes they differ in the kind of monologues they want. Some want contemporary and classic, some want contemporary comedic and dramatic, some want them to come from published plays, etc. So you have to make sure you follow the rules to the letter.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Emilyp114--

The "admission requirements" of the UC system are far below what most students at UCLA have. The admission requirements are the bare minimums a student must have in order to even be considered for admission to UC's. A student who met only the minimum admission requirements and applied to a UC for anything that didn't have an audition wouldn't have a prayer of getting in (unless they were an athlete and got in that way).

I guess what we need to find out is whether UCLA MT students must meet only the minimum admission requirements or whether they must meet the admission standards the rest of the UCLA applicants must meet.

Since it doesn't look like I'll be going to school tomorrow, either, I'm going to call them directly. I'll be sure to post what I find out, although it may be stuff we have already heard.

I'm irritated (at UCLA, not at you all!) that there is even such a discrepancy! I mean, we asked him point-blank. Goodness.

Shauna

By Abunchofnerves (Abunchofnerves) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 11:36 pm: Edit

Hey everyone! I'm new to this thread and I'm adding something a little off topic from your current conversation but here goes: Does anyone know how competitive Fordham University's theatre performance program is and how much the audition counts for in your admissions decision. Thank you!

By Musicislife (Musicislife) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 12:25 am: Edit

As a high school student wanting to persue a life of music theatre i want to get some questions answered by all you people who have auditioned to different schools arcoss the nation and parents of those who have been through it.

What are some good schools to look into?
Is it possible to succeed in the music theatre world w/o a dance background?
What are things i can do now to help prepare myself for when it comes times to audition for these colleges?
Do most people audition to more than one college?

Any additional info is good too.
Thanx!

~MusicIsLife

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 08:11 am: Edit

Hi Mtmommy,
Regarding the "advanced dance component"...
When you go online to sign up for the artistic review (audition slots for Tisch), you will be looking at the different concentrations offered by The Tisch School of Drama, i.e., Acting, Directing, Tech, Musical Theatre (I guess that means Cap 21). Anyway, when you click on Musical Theatre, you get two audition options: one without the advanced dance component and one with the advanced dance component. I am assuming it means those students who are MT hopefuls and want Cap 21, have the option to audition with others who have similiar dance skills in the MT auditions...
Mtheatremom

By Peggy (Peggy) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:07 am: Edit

MusicIsLife -- I'm fairly new around here, too, but thought I would take a shot at answering your question. It's either that or sweep the floor again. You win.

My first suggestion to you, and the rest of the new people here, is to read Pages 1 thru 6 of this thread. I know it's long, but there is so much good information. It is well worth the time it takes.

Good schools: check out the beginning of Page 5. There is a huge list of some of the best schools. Where you apply is up to you. It may depend on where you live, your financial situation, and whether acting or singing is your strength.

Dance: It appears that many of the schools don't require a lot of dance. My suggestion, however, is to check with your local studio. Ours has a program for teenagers with no dance experience who want to learn jazz dancing. Even a year or two of dance would help a lot. If nothing else, you'll learn some of the terminology and the basic steps.

Number of colleges: My daughter is applying to five or six. One gal on this board is auditioning at 8. There is so much competition for just a few slots. Some of the colleges will have several hundred students audition, and take between 20 and 30 students. Unless you have several years of professional experience and are on first name basis with the college president, I would think you need to applyl to more than one school

What to do now: I don't know what grade you're in right now, but here are some suggestions. Do some volunteer work. Every application asked about it. Get involved with the math team, the English team, a sports team, something beside theater.

With your theater experience, start keeping a list of what you do. It'll save you from sitting there at the computer, trying to remember everything.

Another thing my daughter did her senior year was start acting lessons. You are going to need to do monologues for your auditions. She's been working with an acting coach strictly on monologues.

Hope some of this helps. But I guess I need to go back to sweeping the floor.

Peg

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:47 am: Edit

MusicIsLife...Peggy wrote you wonderful advice. I concur. Do go back and read the entire seven threads..you will learn alot. Also get some books/directories on this process.

Back to Jamimom.....The issue over my daughter graduating a year early is a separate one from musical theater itself, though a little intertwined. She wants to have a conference with us as soon as possible to give her reasons/plan. Let me just say that though I am not into this idea myself, educating her has been a challenge due to "giftedness". While she already entered school early, it has been suggested to skip her even another year along the way. We did not do that. Rather, she was in classes with older grades (still is for some subjects) , accelerated, did independent studies, did distance learning college level work, etc. Actually if she graduated a year early, she would even have the credits. She will have completed the school's curriculum in a couple areas actually and also got high school credits while in middle school in several subjects cause she took courses there as part of her educational accomodations. So, academically she has some just cause. Socially, she has ALWAYS come across as older and is a leader as well. She has always been closest with kids older than herself who never seem to regard her as younger. Sometimes I have to tell people her real age. She just directed a musical that she created around her fifteenth birthday and the whole cast was older and in fact, the majority were seniors, many age 18. In summer, she is in theater classes and productions with kids older than herself. Her roommates are either now in college already, or just got into Tisch or Emerson, or else are currently juniors. None are her own age. This has been a big influence itself. Theatrically she has done close to 40 productions. She has been the lead numerous times in shows where the cast are all older than herself. In our dance studio, she has been in the highest level classes for years, and got into the dance rep company at a young age for that group. In summer at her theater program, she has been in their acting and dance master classes by audition for a few years already. She got into their very selective cabaret troupe (musical theater kids) at age nine when the cast is normally ages 12-18. She feels she has done what most applicants who are a year ahead of her have done by this time. She says this is nothing left for her to stay in the high school one more year. I understand her points (well, she has not presented them yet but I know the gist of it), but just am in no hurry for her to go off a year earlier than I thought. I could have skipped her another year in middle school when suggested but did not so here we are again. I just did not want to keep skipping. She is not a typical kid and these issues have been there since nursery school when we went through an early entrance granted into public kindergarten, even moved to another town that would consider this. Nobody can imagine if she were not even in this grade cause chronologically she would be in one grade under this one. She could have even skipped to the next one and we did not along the way but now it has come to this once more.

As far as Tisch, I mentioned what others said about how you specify which studio you prefer at the audition and you CAN say you will only accept Cap21 or can say you will accept other studios if you do not get that one. She said she knew this and would accept other studios. A friend of hers just got into Lee Strasbourg Studio and does musical theater and I think will still get some voice/dance but not as much as at Cap. She has many friends, currently juniors in high school in other states who go to the weekend program at Stella Adler Studio (in fact, is going down that way this weekend and seeing them all). She also maintains that after second year at Tisch, you can switch studios. She just visited a very talented musical theater girl in FL who is in her third year at Tisch and was in Cap21 and apparently she just switched into Playwrights Horizon and was dissatisfied with Cap apparently and wanted more acting training. So, I guess you are not locked into a studio after the first two years.

I surely will want to explore many other theater programs when the time comes. Even if we let her graduate early (she is very persistant even though I am not into this that much)....I am concerned that we have not yet visited schools or all the stuff I would have done with her already as I did not expect this and also have been immersed in the college process with my current senior daughter! My younger one agrees and says that is why she wants to get going on this decision cause she wants to set up an SAT schedule of testing this year and start the process. Oy! I would have to call schools to inquire about how they see students who graduate high school in three years (early). There are parents on the parent forum who have daughters graduating early or younger than 18 as well. It is not a rare phenomenom. My sister in law, who is much younger than myself, graduated high school two years early when turning 16 (this is younger than my own kid's situation), was valedictorian, offered admissions to every elite out there, etc. I know it is done. But I want to particularly inquire of musical theater programs of younger high school graduates. My daughter should have that information before proceeding.

I may just meet you yet at the audition rounds next year...I do not want to contemplate this as I am not done with the college stuff with the first kid!
Susan

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 02:05 pm: Edit

Mtheatremom,

That's so exciting to hear that Tisch has that advanced dance audition option! I can't wait to tell my daughter b/c she'll be happy to hear that. Now, of course, my imagination is stirred up, and I'm wondering if being an advanced dancer gives a student a leg up (sorry) to get into Cap 21. We still aren't sure how good the dance portion is even at Cap 21. If anyone has knowledge of this, we'd appreciate hearing. My 10th grader wants to major in MT very much, but we're both worried she'll lose some of her dance skills at college. It seems like the most well-regarded programs offer the weaker programs in dance, whereas some lesser lights provide stronger training in all three areas.

Shauna,

I can't wait to hear what you find out from UCLA today. I sure hope the info that Rose gave you is correct, and that the school is just "hiding" this happy tidbit.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 04:13 pm: Edit

Mtmommy....I loved the "leg up" reference!

Not sure if this helps but the two girls I know who got into Cap21 were serious dancers with a lot of training, as well as singing and acting. My own daughter is quite interested in going there and like your D, has been dancing since she was a tot and does it five days per week and is in dance companies and so forth. I bet there are alot of kids who go to Cap with dance backgrounds in addition to their musical theater backgrounds. It also sounds like the two groupings for the dance audition acknowledges that some have serious dance technique backgrounds and some do not and simply "move". The thing with musical theater, as you know is to be talented/trainined in singing, dancing, and acting. I find some kids are good at one or two and some really do all three. I bet you will find that many kids in such a program do have dance backgrounds, just not all.

Susan
Susan

By Shauna (Shauna) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 04:57 pm: Edit

OK, I just got off the phone with first the theatre, film, and television department, and then the actual admissions office at UCLA. Here's how it works:

(1) The admissions department looks at the list of theatre applicants. They cross off people who do not meet the minimum admissions requirements that are necessary to be considered eligible for admission to UC's.
(2) This list is sent to those at the theatre department, who then have the last word as to who gets in.

Here's how another relevant portion of my conversation with the admissions officer went:

Shauna: "So, theatre applicants must meet only minimum admissions requirements, and don't have to have the same high level of GPA and test scores that applicants in other departments must have in order to be admitted to UCLA, correct?"
Admissions Officer: "Yes, that is correct."

These minimum admissions requirements are as follows:

Coursework
History/Social Science - 2 years
English - 4 years
Mathematics - 3 years
Laboratory Science - 2 years
Foreign Language - 2 years
Visual/Performing Arts - 1 year
College Preparatory Electives - 1 year

GPA/Test Scores

You satisfy the requirement if your GPA corresponds to your test score total to its right. The test score total is found through this formula: [SAT I composite score] + [2 x (SAT II Writing score + SAT II Mathematics score + third required SAT II score)] (Obviously, it's OK if your test score total is higher than the minimum you need for your GPA range.)

2.80 - 2.84 --- 4640
2.85 - 2.89 --- 4384
2.90 - 2.94 --- 4160
2.95 - 2.99 --- 3984
3.00 - 3.04 --- 3840
3.05 - 3.09 --- 3720
3.10 - 3.14 --- 3616
3.15 - 3.19 --- 3512
3.20 - 3.24 --- 3408
3.25 - 3.29 --- 3320
3.30 - 3.34 --- 3248
3.35 - 3.39 --- 3192
3.40 - 3.44 --- 3152
3.45 - 3.49 --- 3128
> 3.50 --- 3120

More info about minimum requirements can be found here: http://www.ucop.edu/pathways/infoctr/introuc/fresh.html

So there it is! I hope this clears up any confusion.

Shauna

By Musicislife (Musicislife) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 05:13 pm: Edit

Peggy, thanks for all of your advice. I've read some of each of the pages, and it was all very helpful. I may not ever get through it all, for lack of time, but it's good that have it there.

right now i am very interested in OCU. Can any one give me any inside info on that? Iv'e looked at thier web site, but i would like to hear from those who have auditioned there and got accepted or decided they didn't like it, and form parents who have kids audition/ get into it.

Thanks!
MusicIsLife

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 08:22 pm: Edit

Shauna,

Thanks for posting the detailed info for UCLA. I'm sure glad you got to talk to somebody who wasn't out to prove you have to be a skilled mathematician and research scientist to train in musical theater at UCLA. That woman I talked to in admissions acted like my daughter must be a real loser if I even had to ASK.

Soozievt,

Yes, I was really glad to hear about the dance portion of the audition at Tisch. Since even BC seems to ignore the dance component, it really makes me wonder how happy my daughter would be in a program like that. Her dance teacher keeps stressing Tisch to her, but sometimes I get the feeling that it's because she wants her in New York. Period. She gets that from others, too, even from a college acting professor she works with. They keep stressing being in New York, but that's a long way from us in southern CA. So if she isn't securely ensconced in a good college or conservatory program, I would be very unwilling to have her go to New York just "because." UCLA is a lot closer to us, but I worry about the lack of dance there. It's hard to know if the students have time to take classes at a studio like Edge or Millenium. And until Shauna's last post I've been a bit worried about UCLA's admission requirements.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 08:47 pm: Edit

Mtmommy, I have found that it is not helpful to push adcoms at colleges about admission standards for special categories because you can often get someone like the one you spoke to. There are many adcoms that stress that the decisions lie primarily in that office when in practice in nearly every school if there is a department who wants you, the standards can be bent. That is the strongest hook any student can have with admissions--being wanted by the school. One of the problems in school search is trying to find a school that is "In search of" the specific talent. Many adcoms like to stress and give examples of the big development hook that they rejected, few like to talk about the ones they had to swallow.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:08 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,

Don't assume that Boston Conservatory doesn't value dance just because they don't audition for it. Our research actually suggests that they have among the strongest dance programs of any MT program. And remember, your child would be in Boston - great opportunities for dance training abound (not that you want to spend even more money to make up for inadequate training at the school you are already paying a fortune to.... Find out if you can observe dance classes at any school you are really interested in. When my daughter auditions at PSU, students are actually invited to come the day before to meet with faculty and observe classes. The Head of the MT program actually said my daughter should feel free to TAKE the ballet class that will meet the day we are there before her audition. She is really looking forward to that. When she auditioned at Michigan last weekend (and I promise to write about our experiences at UM, CCM and CMU when we get back from Carnegie Mellon where she is auditioning this upcoming weekend.....have just been way too busy this week - it will be a long post, I promise.) they gave a full ballet barre - 45 minutes - as part of the dance audition along with an MT combo performed in small groups. Of all the schools we've researched, by no means an exhaustive list, UM and Syracuse seem to take dance the most seriously. At Emerson, NYU Steinhardt and CMU (our experience there is based on my daughter's attendance at the CMU Pre-College MT program last summer) dance does not appear to be a high priority.

In truth, we're beginning to believe that many of the schools we're looking at value voice first in the audition process. Acting ability is also very important but seems to be something they feel more comfortable about being able to improve once you're admitted, whereas truly special voices are gifts that you either have or you don't. Several programs have actually told us that they are looking for candidates who are strong in two of the three areas. If you've got all three, then you are that much ahead in the game.

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:21 pm: Edit

Susan,
Let her graduate if she wants; been there done that with my oldest. When she was 12 our attorney chatted with her for about 15 minutes at a party - then informed me that he had just talked to my 22 year old daughter. I looked at him funny and he said, “You may say she is twelve but I have a twelve year old, and that kid is not twelve.”

Shauna (this parts for you, this sounds like something you'd do) – My kids get a flat $ amount for college we show them the amount in January of their senior year. We tell them after high school graduation they can use the money for any education expenses they want – if any money is left over after they get their degree, it is theirs to keep. My daughter had looked at schools all over the U.S. When she told her father she had decided on a near-by state school good for technology but known as a party school he nearly flipped. To placate him, she did a comparison chart showing that MIT graduates starting salaries were only $500 more than her choice school. And that 10 years after graduation there was less than a 3% difference in pay – and as she noted since most of the people who go to MIT end up out East and most who go to this school enjoy the lower cost of living in the Midwest there wasn’t really a reason for her to go to a more expensive- prestige school. Unless as she added, “You really need this for your ego Dad.”

She is now a junior physics/math major. It is going to take her five years to graduate because the classes are so intense. …Oh and maybe because she has three jobs, and she talked us into letting her have some of the money early to buy a house near campus that is a real fixer upper because the house payments would be cheaper than rent. So now she will graduate at the ripe old age of 22, as a home owner with a nice chunk of equity.

I have to remind myself every day these three things about my children
1. It is their life to live
2. All I can do is make sure they have the best information for their decisions
3. Give them lots of love and support.
Hope this helps!

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 11:33 pm: Edit

You are all wonderful with your excellent and helpful information. I'll definitely put UM and Syracuse (brrr) on the list to consider--and even leave BC on for now, too. I plan to wittle this list down to a perfect state and then give it to my daughter and have her take it from there. With so many people egging her on to "get into the biz" right after high school, I'm hoping my collection and culling of information will help her make a decision that works best for her.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 09:20 am: Edit

Shauna,
One thing I noticed when I clicked onto the UC site is that the #s you give are for CA residents. The UC min requirements are much more stringent for out of staters.
S will be checking it out there in a month or so. Will post what he finds out.
I really wish you luck in finding the right match and hope you keep us posted right up when you pick the school and even afterwards as Emily is doing. Again many thanks for your valuable info.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Mtmommy--

The woman I talked to wasn't pleasant, per se, but she at least gave me the information I asked for. :-) What worries me more than the fact that the person that you talked to was rude is the fact that they gave you inaccurate information. In my opinion, that - on top of the rudeness - is totally unacceptable.

Cluelessmc2--

Thanks for that. :-) I know that, ultimately, she will let me do what I want to do, but it's just difficult at this stage of the game - when there is so much at stake - to have my viewpoint differ from hers.

Jamimom--

You're right, I'm so sorry. I forgot to add in my post that the information given was for CA residents only.

In case anyone is wondering, non-resident GPA requirements with corresponding test score is as follows (you must have a minimum 3.4 weighted GPA):

3.40 - 3.44 --- 3152
3.45 - 3.49 --- 3128
> 3.50 --- 3120

*cough* *hack* *sneeze* Off to do makeup work!

Shauna

By Monkey (Monkey) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 09:55 pm: Edit

Theatremom,
I'll be interested to read about your daughter's audition experience at PSU. She should take the opportunity to take them up on their offer to take a ballet class, meet the faculty, etc. I think she'll be most impressed with the strength of the dance component of their MT program. Hopefully her audition is scheduled during the run of Ragtime and you'll be able to see a performance
( or at least a rehearsal ) My daughter is having an extremely challenging and successful freshman year so far, both artistically and academically.

By Volygrl (Volygrl) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 10:42 pm: Edit

Northwestern has an excellent theater department, and it is very challenging academically.

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 10:45 pm: Edit

Monkey,

PSU Penn State Univeristy right? This is one of the schools my son (JR)wants to visit over spring break April 1-10. Is there any chance he could meet up with your daughter? He finds it very helpful to talk with MT students when visiting.
You can get me on my e-mail via this post.

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 09:12 am: Edit

I apologize for the delay in responding to the questions from Dancersmom and Peggy. I wanted some time to reflect, and I wanted to consult some of my colleagues in the business. To remind everyone, here are the questions. Dancersmom wrote,

"Prestige is certainly not the top factor in choosing a program for me or I would dare say for most of the posters on this thread, but I would be interested in knowing how the graduates of the many MT programs are perceived by those in the business. Is there any way for us as parents and students to find out which programs are the most highly thought of? NYU, CCM, the Boston Conservatory, Michigan, and CMU come up frequently on this site and I assume that they are highly respected by those in the know. Is there a realistic way for us to find out which programs are well respected by other colleges and universities and casting directors and agents beyond what most of us are already doing? i.e. visiting the schools, checking out degree requirements, seeing productions, etc."

And Peggy wrote,

"This is an absolutely wonderful question. I know that I am shooting in the dark with so much of this. Making it up as I go along. Is it really important for her to go to one of these precious colleges? Does "the business" put as much emphasis on this as the kids do?"

I sent the questions to Arnold Mungioli, a casting director in NY (you may visit his website at mungiolitheatricals.com to see what he has done) and to one of the principals at one of the leading agencies in the city; she asked to remain anonymous. (These two help us in the preparation of our NY showcase.) Here is what Arnold wrote,

"When I am deciding which young people to see for an audition session, the quality of their training and the school is vital. I will always give the appointment slot to a young person with training over one without. In general, I find that any of the schools that participate in the industry presentations in New York are going to win over others that don't. The ones mentioned by [Dancersmom] are serious contenders, as are an additional 10 or 15 others.

"The schools that present in any of the presentations where they team up with a few other equally prestigious schools in the same presentation are more well attended and more well received than many of the individual presentations, since almost every school has started to present something in New York now, and it is impossible for us to get to all of them!

"It is hard to put any of this into an e-mail for posting, since so much of our business is subjective and different casting directors and agents will have different opinions, and I always find e-mail dialogues subject to interpretation by the reader in ways that can misconstrue the original intent.

"Nevertheless, the name on a diploma does matter to most of us in terms of the initial auditions when they first get out of school. The bottom line is going to be about their talent and training whether or not they get the job in the long run."

The agent added,

"Yes, we pay attention to where the person is from... there are certain things one comes to expect from certain schools. But that only counts for the first time or two one sees someone... after that it is about their own talent."

For what it is worth, I hear a mixed answer. Yes, there are a number of schools that the agents and casting directors recognize and it may make it somewhat easier for a new graduate to get that first audition. Being seen in a showcase in the city certainly helps, and Arnold suggests that schools which present together have a slight advantage, at least in getting attendance at the showcase.

(Parenthetical note: As Wct wrote earlier, Carnegie-Mellon is part of the New Leagues, run by the Actors Center--www.theactorscenter.org--in NYC, probably the best-attended of the group presentations. Another group, known as the April Actor Presentations, consists of Northwestern's musical theatre seniors, Otterbein's acting and musical theatre seniors, Baldwin-Wallace's musical theatre seniors, and CCM's acting seniors. CCM's musical theatre showcase is, undoubtedly, the best-attended stand-alone showcase in the city.)

But after that, to quote both of them, it is certainly about talent and training. And good training is happening in lots of places. Shauna listed 60 schools, based on an earlier list from Dancersmom, which offer a musical theatre degree of some kind. (See the beginning of part 5.) I am sure that all of them have graduates working in the business. So do departments of music and departments of dance! Even though it may sound like heresy, I do not believe that it is absolutely essential to major in musical theatre, even though I run such a program. There are too many voice majors who trained in opera and too many dancers who never went to college working on Broadway for me to assert otherwise. We live in a three-dimensional world, and there are an almost infinite number of ways to get from wherever you live to New York City. Some routes may be more circuitous than others, but talent and desire, discipline and persistence will prevail.

That said, I do believe that, just as with college decisions in general, there are programs which are a better fit for any given individual. A musical theatre degree is absolutely right for some students, and within musical theatre degrees, there are programs that are a better fit than others. If your strength is dance, choose a program that will challenge you and make you a stronger dancer, while still paying attention to the other parts of the training. If you have a classical legit voice, and you have a strong musical background, choose a program which will allow you to advance your musical skills, while still paying attention to the other parts of the training. (That might lead you to a B. Music degree instead of a BFA in Musical Theatre.) If you have done "straight" plays, and consider yourself an actor who sings and dances, look for a program which will allow you to grow as an actor, while still paying attention to the other parts of the training. (That might lead you to a program which integrates acting and musical theatre majors, rather than segregating them.) And if you have broad interests, and do not want to neglect other areas of your education, you will want a program with a strong liberal arts component, or (heresy again) you may want to forego a musical theatre program and find a school with a BA degree in Theatre and a strong music department where you can do lots of plays, study voice, and read literature and philosophy. In other words, I recommend playing to your strengths, not your weaknesses.

To return to your final question, Dancersmom, "Is there a realistic way for us to find out which programs are well respected by other colleges and universities and casting directors and agents beyond what most of us are already doing? i.e. visiting the schools, checking out degree requirements, seeing productions?" The answer is, unfortunately, no, not really. Even if we could poll all the agents and casting directors in New York, we would get a smorgasbord of answers. As Arnold said, "So much of our business is subjective and different casting directors and agents will have different opinions." So you may be chasing a chimera.

More important is that you are doing all the right things: visiting the schools, checking out degree requirements, seeing productions and participating in this discussion. The only thing I would add is to make sure that you and your prospective actor talk to the department's leadership and to as many students as you can when she visits or auditions. In my experience, current students tell the truth, warts and all.

Hope this helps.

doctorjohn

P.S. Please drive carefully today and tomorrow! They have predicted bad snow and ice over most of the northern midwest and the east, where all of us are holding auditions this weekend. I recommend you call the department today, and find out how to make contact with us if you are delayed in the morning. Better yet, set out now, so you can take your time! Good luck to all.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 11:03 am: Edit

Doctorjohn...
Wow! THANK YOU so much for your post....very helpful advice. And your insights (particularly regarding the programs which are more music based, or acting based)confirm the direction I have been heading in this research process for my Junior Daughter. I have printed off your post and will share your information with her. Double wow! THANK YOU so much...great response!

By Gadad (Gadad) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 12:03 pm: Edit

OK Doctorjohn, good news and bad news. The good news is that you're a Godsend to those of us who are parents of kids making these decisions - most of us have been sort of the "blind leading the blind" over the past few months. THANK YOU! The bad news is that we're about to inundate you with our burning questions and issues. Here's one: If an utterly devoted prospective Musical Theatre major is also a strong student with a broad range of interests, it would seem that a B.A. in Music with a Theatre minor (or vice versa) might meet some MT needs while allowing the flexibity for a better-rounded liberal education. But what would be lost in the process? The opportunity to participate in an NYC showcase, to be sure. But how about the mentoring, advocacy, and connections of the MT faculty? How significant would the loss of these connections be? Are they important enough to sacrifice the all-around educational nature of a student's college experience for one that's almost all preprofessional?

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 01:50 pm: Edit

Gadad:

If the department in question really has no one with professional experience, no connections to the profession, and no one interested in helping students train for the professional theatre, then yes, that would be a difficult choice, and the trade-off might not be worth it. But you might be surprised at the places ex-professionals are working these days. Getting a position in college teaching is much, much harder than breaking into the theatre, trust me. Lots of very talented professionals who have decided to teach are working at small colleges and even community colleges, as well as at conservatories and professional training programs.

To give you an example from the high school level, I received an e-mail a month ago from a high school teacher in Franklin, Louisiana, about 50 miles south of Baton Rouge. I'm not sure you can get farther away from NY than that, geographically or culturally. This teacher is bringing a dozen kids to NY for the unified auditions next weekend. I'm seeing six of them. Bless this teacher for his dedication. There are people like this at colleges, too. You just need to do the research.

The other side of the coin is that a pre-professional training program does not necessarily mean that a student has to abandon the liberal arts entirely. True, some strict conservatory programs offer very little besides music, theatre and dance. But that is not true of every program, ours included. Other posters have mentioned Penn State and Michigan, and I am certain there are others. Every program is different, and every program has a different philosophy about what belongs in the education and training of someone who wants to work in the American musical theatre. Ask us. We'll tell you.

Hope this helps.

doctorjohn

By Peggy (Peggy) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 01:52 pm: Edit

First, Gadad -- I loved your "blind leading the blind". That's exactly how I feel! It's nice to know I'm not the only one making it up as I go along!

Now, DoctorJohn -- Wonderful, wonderful answers. You don't know how much it helps to be able to talk to someone who really knows what is going on. I forwarded this page to Husband at work, who is trying very hard to figure all of this out. And I'm printing it out for Daughter to read tonight (after school, working out, dance class and attending a basketball game.)

So to summerize what you said: A prestigious school may help you get your foot in the door the first time. But it's talent and hard work (and being in the right place at the right time) that get you the jobs.

What you said about picking out colleges was interesting. I always thought what you said -- go to a college that emphasises your strength. But Stephanie's mentor told her the opposite -- pick a college that emphasises your weakness so that you learn the most. Which also makes sense. But wouldn't it be eaiser to get into a colleges that emphasises your strengths?

Then again, at this point, it doesn't matter. The applications are in, the audition dates are set, and all that's left for me is the praying!

Peg

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 05:49 pm: Edit

Hey everyone. Okay, I have a good question about regional auditions. NYU has informed me that I must bring my own player for the accompaniment. The other schools have not specified, so I am assuming they will provide the players. My question is, must the accompaniment be on a tape? or would a CD be okay too? I'm assuming it would be okay for NYU because i'm taking my own. I just need to know what my vocal coach needs to record the piano on because he's recording it tomorrow and the colleges wouldn't answer my calls for the past three days. If anyone knows, i would really appreciate a response soon. If no one knows, thanks anyway!! Happy auditioning!!!!!

Angie

By Shauna (Shauna) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 06:33 pm: Edit

Dr. John--

Thank you SO much for your post! (I cannot take any credit for that list, however...Dancersmom compiled it in 99.9% of its entirety.) I know we all really appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule to help us.

Gadad/Peggy--

"Blind leading the blind" ... not so! When I first started posting on here (way back on Part I), this thread was an incredible wealth of information that I probably would not have received otherwise. :-)

Angie--

I would go with a CD. The quality will be far better, there's less chance of your music getting physically trashed, and pretty much everyone deals in CDs nowadays. And by the way, what do you mean by your own player? They're not making you bring your own boombox are they?

Shauna

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 09:19 pm: Edit

Shauna --

First of all, Thanks so much!!!! Secondly, yes, NYU stated in the artistic review confirmation that I am to bring my own boombox to the auditions. I thought that was weird too.... I'm planning to call this monday to confirm everything. Thanks again!

Angie

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 09:21 pm: Edit

I just realized that when I said player, it sounded like I meant an accompanist.... and that didn't really make sense at all. Whoops!

Player = Boombox

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Friday, January 23, 2004 - 09:40 pm: Edit

Angie & Shauna:

Yes, they are asking you to bring your own boom box. It may seem unfair, but in fact, it gives you more control of the situation. Have your teacher make a CD for your boombox. But also have your teacher make a tape for the schools that want it. Many of us haven't adopted late 20th century technology. Also, make sure you know which side your accompaniment is on (mark it on the tape), and make sure the tape is cued up to the beginning of your piece or pieces. Nothing will create more nervousness for you than waiting around for the accompaniment to begin. How can you do that? Have a boombox (shared among friends or classmates if possible) that you can have out in the hall to use to cue up the tape.

Good luck!

DoctorJohn

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 01:13 am: Edit

Hey, Thanks for the great info DoctorJohn!!! Keep up the wonderful posts. We all really appreciate them! and thanks for the good luck!

angie

By Cato (Cato) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 11:21 pm: Edit

Anybody know anything about the MT program at Geneseo?

By Peggy (Peggy) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 02:13 pm: Edit

I have a new question. It's kind of off-topic, but one that we're all going to face this year or next. Stephanie will be graduating in June. She will leave several very teachers that have been very important in her life -- her choir teacher, her voice teacher and her dance teachers. These are people that have had more influence on her than anyone else, including her parents! She would like to do something special when she graduates to thank them, but has no idea what to do. She knows what NOT to do -- no coffee mugs, plaques or paperweights. But she want to show her appreciation for all they've done.

Anyone have any suggestions???

Peg

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 04:56 pm: Edit

Musicalthtrmom and others:

What other info do you have about Boston Conservatory? I know the least about that MT program. How many kids do they take for MT? What's the retention rate (i.e. those promoted...)?, New York Showcase?, does anyone know an actual person that went there for MT and liked/or not like it? Any more info is great to have! Whats the housing like? Sorry about so many questions.
-Mtheatremom

By Dirrtytenor (Dirrtytenor) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 05:07 pm: Edit

Ohio Mom,

Im so excited for your son! The reason is because i am also auditioing for BoCo in Chicago on Feb 2. Do you know what time he's auditioning? Tell him I said good luck and maybe we'll see each other there! Also please tell him best of luck on all his auditions, thanx so much! One week until I fly to Chicago.....we'll see what happens!!!!

By Cato (Cato) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 05:20 pm: Edit

There have been several mentions on here about retention. Do MT programs cut people subjectively, or is it like any other college program where you need to keep a certain objective and pre-determined GPA?

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 05:49 pm: Edit

Cato:

It depends on the school. Almost all MT and other performance BFA programs now admit a limited number of students and then do evaluations on a regular basis, which can be as often as the end of each term. Evaluations usually involve a meeting with the faculty, and sometimes may include mini-performances, or "juries", in voice, dance, and acting. (In this respect, we are not much different than music conservatories, which have been doing this kind of thing for centuries.)

Grades are important, but so is "progress" and that is a judgment call by the faculty. As a result of evaluations, students may be put on probation, and in extreme situations, asked to leave the program. There is almost always a great deal of advance warning in those cases.

However, there are some programs (many fewer now than there used to be) which admit a larger number of students than they can carry all the way through to completion. Inevitably, they have to make hard decisions about who will continue in the program. Often those decisions are made at the end of the sophomore year.

What happens to students who are asked to leave the MT program depends on the school. Many schools have other degree programs which students can transfer into, and give them credit for all the coursework they have done up to that point. Some do not.

It's a critical question, and one which I recommend all parents and prospective students ask of every program. Just say, nicely, "How many students do you admit, how many of those will graduate, and when and how do you make the decision about who continues?"

It would be very interesting to all of us to hear the various answers to that question.

By Idontknow (Idontknow) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 05:56 pm: Edit

As far as good important teacher gifts go... When I graduated last year I also had about three very special teachers to find gifts for. I ended up giving my voice teacher one of my senior pictures in a nice frame and then just writing a letter (about four pages) thanking them for everything they'd done for me... how much they'd added to my life... etc. For other special teachers I just looked in local stores and found things that seemed like they "fit" the people I was buying for... some pottery things... and just meaningful gifts. Basically it's just knowing the person and finding what you think is right for them, but the best thing I can say to give are just very meaningful letters or notes. Hope this helps! Best of luck to all of you auditioning out there...!

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 07:28 pm: Edit

mtheatremom...I"ll check the information we received during our visit to Boston Conservatory to see if any of the questions you ask were answered. We did not meet with a school official, but only had a tour with a student. She was a dance major. We got a tour of the "school"...basically one building...and saw a dorm room (tiny per most college dorm rooms!)...saw the theater. I'll get back to you!
drjohn.....glad to see you are surviving today's snow. Hope your auditions this weekend went well and got everyone out of town before the storm hit! One question regarding your program at Otterbein. How many prospective musical theater students do you audition each year? and what percentage do you accept into the program? Most of the people I have talked to say if you can show strength in one...maybe even two of the areas (vocal, acting, dance)... it's okay if you aren't a true triple threat. Do you find that true in the auditions you conduct? Or are you finding more and more students come prepared in all three areas? And what would you say is the best advance preparation that a student should do before college...is it more important to build a resume with shows and roles, or with lessons? Or a mix of both? There's only so much time in the day! THANKS for your time in answering!

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 10:20 pm: Edit

Musicalthtrmom:

I want to be careful not to turn this thread into a dialogue, but I do want to do my best to answer the questions that are out there. First, our admission rate. Last year, we actively* auditioned 103 women for musical theatre, offered admission to five, and four accepted. We auditioned 41 men, and offered admission to six, and four accepted. Our goal is eight Musical Theatre majors, plus eight Acting majors for a total of 16 performers in the freshman class of 32. For women, that's a 5% acceptance rate, for men, 15%. Based on what I've heard, we see fewer students than some of the better-known programs, but we also take fewer students, so our admission percentage is probably typical. And yes, it's much harder for women to get into musical theatre, simply because there are so many more women auditioning. Fact of life. I wish it were different.

(*By "active" audition, I mean one where a student specifically schedules a personal, individual audition with us either on campus or on the national unified tour. We don't include the group auditions at state and national Thespian festivals, or the like, in our statistics.)

We see very, very few true triple threats. That's partly because the training for dance and the training for voice tend to develop the human body differently. Singers need flexible abdominal and back muscles so they can breathe freely. Dancers are often instructed differently about their torsos. It's no mistake that Mikhail Baryshnikov and Luciano Pavarotti would never be mistaken for twins. This doesn't mean that it's impossible to develop the skill to sing and dance at the same time, but it's not easy, and that's why it takes so long to train.

In my opinion, voice lessons are essential. Natural singers may be able to do all right within a fairly narrow pitch range, but their lack of training will be evident as soon as they try to hit notes above or below that range. There are very few musical theatre pieces that don't require at least an octave. Also, I haven't encountered many untrained students who know how to breathe easily and naturally and how to sing through a phrase. We recommend classical voice training to start. A good voice teacher will teach you the fundamentals of breathing, producing clear tones, singing scales and arpeggios, and creating a legato line. But as you prepare for auditions, you should find a coach (not necessarily the same person as your voice teacher) who can help you find songs that fit your acting and voice type, and then teach you how to act the songs, not just sing them. (But don't quit your voice lessons!)

Although we take dance very seriously, and require it in the curriculum (even for Acting majors), we do accept students with little dance experience, if we see the ability to move well, and we think we can teach them. But we always look seriously at good dancers, if they can also sing. Again, the singing is critical. But students who can really dance (and can sing decently) are great candidates for a musical theatre program, if for no other reason than the break-in jobs out there for 22 year-olds are in chorus roles.

As for acting, let the kids do plays! The joy is getting out there on stage with friends and performing for an audience. If they don't love it now, they're not going to love it in college, much less in the profession. And they need a storehouse of good experiences to carry them through the hard times when they're not getting roles, and the voice lessons aren't going well, and they sprained an ankle in Jazz class yesterday, and they just can't connect emotionally in that Chekov scene, and it's winter and all the snow has turned to slush, and the boyfriend/girlfriend just dumped them, and they wonder why they ever wanted to do this in the first place, and life just sucks. Halfway through the sophomore year, in my experience.

But that doesn't mean they should just go from play to play, in a rush to build a resume. We take just as many students who've done five or six roles as we do those who've done twenty. And we sometimes worry that students who have done a very large number of roles may have developed bad habits that will be difficult to change.

I suppose all of this adds up to a plea for some balance in the kids' lives. Yes, we want our graduates to be successful in the professional theatre. But we think it's critical that they learn how to be good human beings in the process. That, for me, is what justifies the existence of our art, that we try--as Sophocles did 2400 years ago, and Shakespeare 400 years ago, and what Stephen Sondheim does these days--to help audiences understand what it means to be human, and have some fun learning it. If we violate that trust in order to make students "successful" in some narrow economic sense, what have we really achieved?

Hope this helps. Please remember that this is the opinion of one person at one program. I don't presume to speak for anyone else or any other musical theatre program. I'd like to hear what others recommend, or what all of you out there are hearing from other programs.

Thanks for the good wishes, Musicalthtrmom. Everyone made it to the auditions on time, and everyone got out before the storm! Somebody up there deserves some gratitude.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 08:36 am: Edit

drjohn:
Again, THANK YOU for your answers. Your advice is invaluable to us. Not just to hear you confirm what we are doing is what we SHOULD be doing, but to make additions/alterations in time for the crucial auditions. I've suggested to my D we needed to add the vocal coach to the voice lessons this last year....I'll share your recommendation with her!(Maybe I know more than I think!) And you're right about letting them do the roles...when they're really passionate about this, how could you stop them anyway! Again, THANKS!

By Txmommtpbd (Txmommtpbd) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 12:48 pm: Edit

Hi - I'm new to this board. I'm hoping someone who has gone through one of the regional auditions can tell me if it is humanly possible for someone to do 3 auditions in one morning? My son has been scheduled for over a month with 2 overlapping auditions at the Chicago auditions. We are nervous enough about that. Neither of those schools would reschedule. This Saturday we finally received a letter from CMU and they have set the same date/time. Despite what their letter says about rescheduling auditions, their Admissions Office says none will be rescheduled. So, should we cancel the CMU audition or try to fit it in? It just doesn't seem possible to fit in 3 auditions in the same 4 hours but maybe I'm wrong.

What are our chances of getting a refund for the audition fee from CMU? Previous posts make that sound like a lost cause too. Anyone had any luck doing that? The people in the CMU Admissions Office are anything but helpful, so I'd really appreciate anything info you can share. Thanks so much!
TX Mom

By Ohiomom466 (Ohiomom466) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 01:02 pm: Edit

DIRTYTENOR: My son is auditioning for BOCO the morning of Feb.2. Good luck to you also. Are you doing any other auditions in Chicago? I hope the weather is okay. We are taking the train from Ohio. Today is bad-- a s nowday Also, we visited BOCO in the summer. I thought the dorms were nice. They are historical brownstones and seemed unique. The area was interesting with lots of students carrying instruments. Everyone at the school seemed nice and helpful.

By Wct (Wct) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 01:19 pm: Edit

TX Mom-

I would contact someone in the Drama Dept. at CMU to discuss the audition schedule. Last year when we were going through this process I had to make some schedule changes and it was far easier to do that when I discussed it with the theater departments at the particular colleges my son was auditioning for, not the admissions office. At the CMU drama site http://www.cmu.edu/cfa/drama/faculty/index.html
there is a faculty list. You may want to email/call the Option Coordinator for Acting/Musical theater about your scheduling problem.

If CMU is one of your son's top choices I would find a way to reschedule. I definately would not cancel. You could always talk to someone in person in Chicago the day of the auditions. I found that those involved at the auditions in Los Angeles at the Hilton Hotel were very helpful to auditioners in that same perdicament.

I am one who has never had a problem with getting help from CMU. In fact they have been the most helpful out of all the colleges that I have had experience with in my years of having children in college. I am sure all college's aren't perfect when it comes to dealing with the amount of people they have to deal with, but in my opinion I don't think CMU deserves the bad wrap they have gotten on this board. I find it hard to believe that I am the only one who has had a positive experience.

By Txmommtpbd (Txmommtpbd) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Hi WCT -
Thanks so much for getting back. I will try reaching the drama dept today. It's good to hear that your experience with CMU was good. Ours has not been in any of the instances we've contacted them. We've had the reserve - all wonderful experiences with the other schools (including CCM)and only CMU as a bad one. Here's hoping that working with the drama dept matches your experience! Thanks again - you've given me hope!
TX Mom

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 02:14 pm: Edit

Doctorjohn,

Thank you so much for your well considered response to my question. I'm bowled over by the amount of time and effort you put into your post. I'm sure that all of us reading this thread appreciate your forwarding the question to a casting director and an agent, the very people our kids will need to impress upon graduation. I'm sure that more than a few people will be taking a look at Otterbein. I have mentioned your school several times in my posts, particularly when people have inquired about schools with a strong dance component. Most importantly, I believe that most of the parents reading this thread are looking for a program that has a nurturing atmosphere. You've shown us that Otterbein has a thoughtful, caring department chair. It's nice to know that there are great educators out there. Thanks for all the time and advice you have given us. I appreciate hearing that I'm doing a few things right!
I apologize for not responding right away. My family and I just got in from a 3 school audition trip to Pennsylvania around midnight last night. We had the pleasure of driving through the storm. We ran into snow about 120 miles east of Columbus, OH. We left Pittsburgh at 4:00. It normally takes around 4 1/2 to 5 hours to get home. Yesterday it took 7 1/2. I hope everyone who was auditioning this weekend had a safe journey.

Angie and Shauna,

I would advise you to bring your own boombox or CD player to the audition even if the school says it is providing one. My daughter went to the League of Cincinnati Theatres auditions about a year and a half ago. She planned to do one monologue and a song as requested from the MT performers. It was her 2nd or 3rd time out at the unified auditions. Performers were told to bring their own tapes. The boombox was provided by the host location. My D went over the song with the taped accompaniment at home several times before leaving the house. She played the tape in the car several times on the way to the audition. We cued the tape and checked it twice before she went in. At the audition an assistant put the tape into the player and turned it on. Nothing!! She was asked if the tape was cued; she told them yes. They turned up the volume all the way. When my D put her ear on the boombox she could hear the music very faintly. After several minutes of struggling with the tape they gave up and my D was told to just sing a cappella. She did a nice job and was congratulated by the auditors for having a lot of poise. When she told me and my husband what happened, it was clear that she was puzzled and annoyed. We were puzzled too at 1st. Eventually, we concluded that someone in the audition room had probably pushed the CD button instead of the tape button on the boombox. If you do that you will see the tape revolving and hear the music very faintly on some boomboxes. D had performed immediately after the lunch break. We surmise that in the movement after the morning audition rounds the boombox had gotten bumped. No one in the room thought to check the tape selection button! Unfortunately, these kind of things can happen. You have much more control in preventing these kind of technical difficulties when you use your own equipment. We learned the lesson the hard way.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Everyone,
I thought I'd let you know about some news from Point Park. They are a University now. I know someone posted this information a while back. We were at Point Park on Friday and learned that they are instituting a senior showcase in NYC as of this year. The showcase opportunity will be by audition. Not all seniors will get to go. This is true at some other schools also. Point Park will continue to invite casting directors to the campus.

I must give Point Park a plug for being helpful to prospective students and their families. When my D 1st visited the campus last April the school set up a meeting for us with an admissions counselor. Dana wrote my D several times over the summer and the early fall asking if there was anything she could do to help her and just to touch base. When D got accepted academically, Dana wrote her a card congratulating her. She wrote again when my daughter was offered an academic scholarship. When we were there Friday for the audition I went in without an appointment to speak with Dana regarding another scholarship application. D is applying for a Community Service and Leadership Award. I wasn't sure if some of the things that were on D's application to the university should be included on the scholarship application or not. Dana was very helpful. She looked at the scholarship application and my D's applications to both the conservatory and the university and found several items that she believed should be included on the scholarship application that my D had not written down. She photocopied those items and included them in my D's scholarship application. Dana is being as helpful as she can be in getting my D as much academic scholarship money as possible. She told me to mark a date in March on my calendar. She indicated that she believed that D would be awarded the Community Service and Leadership Award and would then become eligible to compete for a Presidential Scholarship, Point Park's highest award. Students have to interview for that scholatship. D will interview in March if she becomes eligible. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I have truly appreciated the personal attention that my D has received from the Office of Admission.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 03:22 pm: Edit

Dancersmom..Congratulations to your daughter on her success at Point Park! Scholarship $$ can make all the difference for many students! Good to hear you are getting good attention at Point Park. I notice you said your daughter auditioned at several schools this last weekend. I hope when you have recuperated from the trip and the snowy drive you will be able to share with us your experiences...we'd be grateful!

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 04:04 pm: Edit

txmommtpbd,

Regarding audition refunds from CMU, I wouldn't count on it. Last year I applied E.D. to NYU, and because CMU's app had an earlier due date than the other schools I was applying to, I had to send it in and book an audition slot before I heard that I'd been accepted E.D. to Tisch. When I got my acceptance, I called CMU to advise them and to cancel the audition spot because I know how quickly they fill and I didn't want to keep the spot when someone else would need it. They told me that I had to send it in writing, which I already knew and explained that I was simply trying to do the polite thing. Very unhelpful individual that I spoke to that day.

Anyway, I wrote and mailed the letter on December 15 ( the audition was scheduled for the end of January). I tracked the letter and it arrived in Pittsburgh three days later. I called to inquire about the audition fee being refunded and was told to call back in a week. I called once a week for the next month and a half. I'm still waiting for the refund a year later! I've met several kids here at Tisch this year who had the same thing happen so it's unlikely you'll ever see that audition fee again.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Everyone,
As I indicated earlier, we just got back from 3 auditions this weekend. D did an audition at Florida State on Jan. 18. We were home for 3 days then we headed for Pennsylvania. She auditioned at Point Park on Jan. 23, Penn State on Jan. 24, and Carnegie Mellon on Jan. 25. I promised to write about the audition experiences, so here goes.

FSU: The weather was delightful. The weekend we were in Florida the daytime temperatures were in the upper 60's. Back home in Cincinnati people were struggling with an ice storm on Saturday. I'm sure it made getting to the audition at CCM interesting for everyone. When we got back Monday night the temperature was 17. But, enough about the weather.

FSU was holding their 1st of 3 MT audition weekends on the 17th and 18th. D auditioned on the 18th. There were 28 kids there that day (only one boy) and about the same number the previous day. As you may recall from some of my previous posts, FSU has 2 tracks for MT students. Students can either get a BFA from the School of Theatre or a BM from the School of Music. Auditions are held for the same committee at the same time for both programs. Students from both degree programs take their core MT classes together. They diverge in that BFA students take more drama courses, including directing and technical theatre labs and BM students take more music theory and music history courses. Students auditioning for the BFA program can be accepted into the School of Theatre as drama majors and students auditioning for the BM program can be accepted into the School of Music as voice majors even if they are not accepted into the MT programs. This does give the kids a 2nd option. Students auditioning for the School of Music are asked to prepare 2 MT songs and 2 art songs so they can be evaluated as potential voice majors. Students auditioning for the BFA only prepare the 2 MT songs. Gayle Seaton, the School of Music MT chair, explained this to the students during orientation. (It seems that there is always some misunderstanding regarding the songs requirements and causes a few kids to panic. Ms. Seaton was very reassuring to the worried students.) Students were told that all voice and drama students are known by the MT faculty and many of the drama and voice majors are used in the MT productions. FSU has a very small MT program so they need the drama and voice majors to fill ensemble roles. It sounded to me that it would be possible for a student who did not get accepted as a freshman into one of the MT programs to get a lot of the same training as a drama or music major.
The audition day began at 1:00. (My daughter always appreciates the later starting times!) Gayle Seaton and Kate Gelabert, the School of Theatre MT chair, spoke to everyone about the program. The dance audition was next. It was held in the same room as orientation, as were the acting and singing portions of the audition. Ms. Gelabert conducted the dance audition. Several current FSU MT majors were in the room to demonstrate the dance steps. The room was a big music rehearsal room with a wooden floor. The students were warned not to wear character shoes because of the slipperiness of the floor. The kids were told that there would be some technically difficult material presented. The auditors said that they wanted to give the dancers their turn to shine just as the singers and actors would have their turn to shine in the drama and vocal auditions. The kids were reassured that the faculty knew that not everyone excelled in all areas and that they didn't have to. The non-dancers were basically told not to worry. My D says that the warmup was inadequate for her. She wished she'd had time to do a warmup on her own, because she felt stiff the next day. Unlike Michigan, which held a full ballet barre, FSU did a very abbreviated warmup. There was no ballet barre, because there was no barre in the room. The ballet portion of the audition was primarily extensions,promenades, and lots of poses. D says it was designed to show the dancer's technique rather than the dancer's ability to perform. The jazz portion of the audition again had quite a bit of posing and again emphasized technique rather than the ability to sell the dance. D says that the slippery floor was an issue. She had to hold back a bit, particularly in the jazz combination. D says that the audition would be difficult for non-dancers, but she thought it was pretty easy for her. As usual, the entire group learned the combinations together and they were later broken into smaller groups. The kids were grouped by ability. The best 6 girls were pulled out at the end of the audition. D says that there were 1 or 2 girls that had had considerable dance training. She did like Point Park's dance audition better. They did a brief ballet barre in a real dance studio with a Marley floor and an interesting jazz combination. The jazz combination at Point Park allowed the students to show their ability to perform. She had fun with Point Park's dance audition, but feels that Michigan had the best dance audition that she's experienced so far.

The vocal and acting auditions were held after a one hour lunch break. Jane Alexander, actress and former president of the National Endowment for the Arts during the Clinton administration and now on the faculty of FSU, was the drama representative for the auditions. Ms. Seaton is a singer and Ms. Gelabert is a dancer / choreographer. Everyone was very excited (scared?) by Ms. Alexander's presence. Several current FSU students sat in on the auditions. The parents were allowed to go pretty much wherever they wanted. We couldn't go into the audition room of course, but many parents sat in the hall outside of the audition room. My D was the last student to audition before the halfway- mark break for the auditors. My husband listened to all of the students who sang before her. (The acting and interview portions of the auditions couldn't be heard through the door.) I went with my daughter to the practice rooms. Practice rooms were very plentiful at FSU so I was able to accompany my D in her warmup. FSU has been the only school so far (we've been to Michigan, Point Park, Penn State, and CMU) where D has had access to a piano before she sang. The accompanist that day liked to play at a very slow tempo. My husband warned D before she went in. Her songs were performed at fairly close to the correct tempos. Other kids did not fare so well. Some pieces that my husband heard were performed at larghissimo and the singers were struggling. Note to student readers: be sure to communicate your desired tempo clearly to the accompanist. Clap or conduct the beat or sing a few bars. If the accompaniment ends up going way too fast or too slow, stop and discuss the tempo again! When students finished the songs and monologues the faculty talked with them briefly . My D's interviews always seem to have a few questions about CCM. She's learned to expect it. (She's trained at CCM prep for almost 9 years.) I'll post a list of common audition questions for you soon. As soon as the interview was over, D was free to go. Auditioners and their families were told that they could take a look around the campus on their own after the audition was concluded. Unfortunately, there were no productions taking place that weekend. We'll have to go back to see one if D gets accepted. D enjoyed the audition on the whole. My husband said he was impressed by the vocal talent he heard in the hallway. I think that D would feel very much at home at FSU and would be trained as a triple threat. She appreciated hearing that they wanted to give the dancers their time to shine. She did wish that the dance combos had been more challenging and had allowed more room for expression (a la the Point Park jazz combo.) FSU does not have rolling admission, so no decisions will be made until a week after the final audition weekend on Feb. 21 and 22. The faculty takes notes on the auditions to help them remember what they saw and heard. I do wonder why more schools don't use 20thc technology -aka video cameras - to help. I've been told by my D's vocal coach that CCM does tape the auditions. I'm holding my breath. I'd really like to see D go to FSU.

Sorry! I'll have to post about the Pennsylvania schools later. It's almost time for me to play piano/violin teacher.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 04:33 pm: Edit

Common Audition/Interview Questions

Why do you want to go to school here?
What 1st attracted you to our program?
What will you bring to our program?
What roles do you see yourself doing professionally?
What has been your favorite role?
Who are your favorite MT performers?
What other schools are you applying to?
Where do you see yourself in 10 years?
If you couldn't perform, what other career could you see yourself doing?
What are your strengths as a performer?
What are your weak areas?
Do you have any special skills?
Do you have any questions about our school or program? (Do your homework - ask intelligent questions. Don't ask things that are easily accessible on the school's website.)
Tell us about your training.

At more than one school students are asked to sing a cappella at the end of the vocal audition.

Several schools will ask the student to present more songs or monologues than were asked for in the written requirements.

Be prepared!

By Txmommtpbd (Txmommtpbd) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 05:06 pm: Edit

Hi Emilyp114 -
Thanks for getting back about your experience with CMU auditions & refunds. I think you're right. I contacted the Drama Dept and no word back. (If they treat people in any manner similar to how the Admissions Office has treated us, I should consider myself lucky I guess.) Seems like a scam doesn't it? Well, thank you for sharing your experience with me. We'll just concentrate on the other great schools!
TX Mom

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 05:49 pm: Edit

Dancersmom...THANKS for all your time in telling us of your experiences. This is invaluable for my daughter's experience next year...I'm ever so grateful!

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 08:05 pm: Edit

I also have been having a bad experience with CMU. I sent my app in on time and I still havn't received any confirmation or audition information, and I'm supposed to audition in Chicago next week. I've been calling and calling and all I hear is, "There's nothing we can tell you." Sounds kind of like either a) a scam, or b) very unorganized. I am not pleased with the way they are "reviewing" the long hours I have spent preparing not only my audition, but the actual application (essays...). This, to me, is a definite testimonial and I don't think i'd go there even if I am accepted. But what do you guys think? I mean, I know they're busy and blah blah blah, but I'm supposed to audition in a week! shouldn't I have some kind of information? a time slot, maybe? My family and I have already made plans to go to Chicago anyway in hopes that i'm on the list (I have 2 other auditions as well there). But oh man! If i'm not on the list, you'd better believe I'll be well, upset. Sending me absolutely zero information on anything having to do with admissions, or my audition is unacceptable. If i don't get to audition, they will have CHEATED me out of applying and auditioning with a different school at which I could potentially be accepted. (By the way, I don't have the means to audition in Pittsburgh, so that's out of the question) It's just the principle of it all. I tracked my app and they received it 2 days after it was postmarked. That has given them PLENTY of time to process it and send me some information!! Not a good experience with them thus far. Just thought I'd share!!! Happy Auditioning!

Angie

By Sopranosmom (Sopranosmom) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:09 pm: Edit

Acavallo1 -- my D has applied to CMU's School of Music in vocal performance. She had her audition this past weekend. We live in Pgh so it has made it (somewhat) easier for the application process. I know this board is devoted to MT applicants and you are applying to the School of Drama for MT or acting but some of this info may be helpful. I have been given the 'run around' on more than one occasion by the office of admissions. I would recommend you call the School of Drama directly -- you have a better shot at getting info about auditions, etc.. Re: admissions office and application receipt. My D enclosed a SASE envelope when she sent her app in and her app was sent priority with delivery confirmation (even from one Pgh address to another!). We tracked it and it arrived on time and her postcard (finally!) was returned a week later. She e-mailed to find out the status of her app -- re: testing, recs, etc., and got nowhere and then I called. In order to access your app status, you have to have a Bio ID#. I got my D's over the phone and a confirmatory letter came way later (her app was in before 12/1 and letter came 10 days ago!). With this Bio ID# as well as your last name and birhtday (mm/dd/yyy) you can access your app status at http://www.cmu.edu/enrollment/admission My D immediately did so and saw that everything was there except her audition. We were told this weekend that music applicants would get a 'yes, we love you,' 'yes, you're OK,' or a 'no, you're not a good match,' letter 2-4 weeks after the audition -- the first two responses indicate that your audition was acceptable and that those results would go to the admissions office where they would look at 'everything else' and then render a decision. I'm not certain but I think MT and acting have a similar decision making process and timeline. If you have not received your app confirmatory letter, call the admissions office and demand your Bio ID# -- you then have some chance of finding out the status of your app. I have found CMU to be, overall, disorganized in their application process and communication skills. My motto is to be pro-active and aggressive in ferreting out the info from them. They seem overwhelmed with several different schools, majors, decsion dates, auditions, etc., to contend with. I hope this helps. I would be glad to answer any questions that I can about CMU. My D's voice teacher is there and we go to all their shows, operas, etc.. It is a good place -- unfortunately, they are not putting on a good public face for everyone who applies!

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 01:22 am: Edit

Sopranosmom--

Thank you so much for the info! unfortunately, however, we have called the drama dept. directly and one of two things happens: 1) we're put on hold for 80,000,000 hours, or 2) no answer. It is seriously, the weirdest thing! and, it never fails! But I will keep trying until Friday... you can count on that. But if nothing else, I'm still going to chicago, and my parents will most likely...um... do their thing, i guess. Which probably won't make them look at me as a potential student, but it's the principle of it all that i'm most concerned with. Bottom line, I could have auditioned for a different school in CMU's place, had they informed me in some way. But, I will keep trying to call them!!!! Let's just hope it all gets straighted out so we don't have to spend an extra $100 on a hotel. Good luck to your daugher!!!!!! and thanks again!!!

Angie

By Wct (Wct) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 02:15 am: Edit

Angie-
Try emailing Barbara MacKenzie-Wood and cc Dick Block and Elizabeth Bradley at CMU. Maybe you will have better luck that way. You can get their info at this site: http://www.cmu.edu/cfa/drama/faculty/index.html

I remember that I was able to check online how the application process was going by using the Bio ID# that they gave my son. Because we live so far from CMU I very rarely called. The very few times I did call I did not have a problem, especially when I talked to someone in the HUB. I don't know if it would help but you could try this site:http://www.cmu.edu/enrollment/admission/
and at the bottom click on message board and post a question there. Maybe you could get some help that way. Or call the HUB and find out what your options are about getting the info you need from the right people.

I am so sorry many of you are having such a tough time with CMU. As Sopranosmom has posted it really is a "good place".

By Sunbeam (Sunbeam) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 07:45 am: Edit

I have been reading this thread for a while and found it most informative. Thank you everyone. I have a question about All States and regional singing competitions that I've read about here from time to time. What are these competitions? Who sponsors them? Where can we go to find out more about them? We live in CT and my daughter sings everything from classical to jazz to Broadway.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 08:49 am: Edit

Sunbeam,
The All State and regional singng competitions are opportunities through high school choirs. My daughter was involved in 9th-12th grade with these. In our case they were organized by PMEA
( Pa. Music Educators Association ) I know that they are sponsored differently depending on the state in which you live. The music is mostly classical choral music but the experience has benefits for the MT singer. My daughter honed her sight reading skills, received scholarships and recognition for her singing ability, and thoroughly enjoyed the experience from a social perspective ( meeting kids from lots of different schools). Ask the choral music director at her high school about it.

By Jennysg (Jennysg) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Doctorjohn,
Many thanks to your wonderful insight and information. You have answered many of my questions that I have had lurking in my head for some time. I do have a question to pose. You stated in a recent post that it may be more beneficial to have 2 vocal teachers (one teaching the fundamentals and one for auditions). My D has been working with someone who does the fundamentals AND is very involved with MT in our city. He has been the music director for many shows big and small around our valley (Phoenix). Since his expertise is MT and is very knowledgable in this area, do you think sticking with one teacher may be sufficiant or should I still look for a different coach when the time nears. (My D is a sophmore)

By Abunchofnerves (Abunchofnerves) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 01:08 pm: Edit

Does anyone on this post know anything about Fordham University's theatre program. I would like to get a BA in theatre because, as much as I love acting, I really want a program strong in the liberal arts. This school is my first choice so I was wondering if anyone knew how competitive it is or any other information on it. Thank you!

By Mtjack (Mtjack) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 02:29 pm: Edit

I visited Fordham with my D. last summer. The Theatre facilities were quite unimpressive and there is no MT program. I understand that there is a drama program, it was not in session when we visited and I did not see or learn anything to recommend it except its proximity to Lincoln Center and the theatre district I do not think it is a major that the school emphasizes or puts much money in. My D crossed it off her list after the visit.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 03:14 pm: Edit

Auditions Part II

I forgot to mention a couple of things in my post about FSU. First, students are given a time for their vocal and acting audition when they call to set up the audition. However, the kids were told to check a posted list after the introductory talk to see if their time had changed. My D's audition time was moved 3 1/2 hours earlier. Second, FSU offers admission to 10 to 12 students. They know that probably not all of the students will accept, but they do not have a waiting list. Therefore, some years the class is very small. They have a no cut policy for their program.

Our trip to Point Park on Friday was for our D's 2nd audition with the school. She auditioned in Dec., was accepted, and offered an apprenticeship, which is like work-study. D told me and my husband that the accompanist had major difficulties with her song (he actually seemed to be lost a few times). Unfortunately, Point Park requires only 1 song. The auditors seemed to react well to my D's performance of her monologue. Then she sang. To put it mildly, there was a night and day difference in their reactions to her monologue and her song. There were smiles all around after her monologue. After her song, she got a fake smile or two and a curt thank you. D didn't say anything to the auditors about the problems. She just walked out of the room. We all felt that it would be very difficult for the auditors to fairly evaluate her performance given the problem with the pianist, so D wrote to Point Park 2 days after her audition to request a 2nd hearing. (Point Park allows students who don't get accepted after their 1st audition to re-audition 3 months later.) She got her acceptance letter and an offer for an apprenticeship exactly 1 week after the initial audition. D scheduled a 2nd audition anyway to try to increase her talent award.

The mischief gods were having a good time at my D's expense this week. She's stayed healthy all winter until this past week. She went to a voice lesson last Wednesday. She had a mild sniffle and felt a little gunky. She says she didn't really feel sick. Five minutes into her lesson her teacher stopped her and informed her that her vocal cords were swollen. D by then had noticed that she had trouble producing much sound, the sound was fuzzy, couldn't hit her high notes, vibrato was missing, etc. She told me that it felt like she was trying to sing with 2 sets of vocal cords in her throat. Her teacher spent the rest of the lesson trying to help her find a way to sing through the problem. She told her that she was to go on complete vocal rest until Friday, when she was to re-audition at Point Park. Naturally, this past weekend was the weekend that my D had auditions at 3 different schools scheduled. Her voice teacher indicated that she thought she could still get through the auditions, so we hit the road Thursday night. We were all very worried that she wouldn't be able to sing.

D's audition at Point Park was to start at 1:00. She did some warming up in the shower. When I questioned her about the state of her voice, she said that it still felt swollen and she didn't know how she would sound. She said she felt that she needed to try to sing. Point Park's auditions start in a beautiful ballroom with coffee, lemonade, bagels, various cream cheeses, and cookies. Students take a written diagnostic music theory test. It is not used to determine admission. It is only used for placement purposes. After the theory test the kids and their families are told a little bit about the program. At the end of the talk everyone is given a Point Park t-shirt and invited to take a tour of the campus. We were divided into 4 groups and taken on a tour of the 2 main buildings by a student guide. Parents are sent away after the tour and the students are taken to the 6th floor where the vocal and acting auditions take place. Students did not have access to practice rooms to warmup. This past Friday the students were divided into 3 groups. Each group had their own audition room with a team of 3 auditors. (I'm not sure that I like the idea of different students being judged by different faculty members.) D again did her monologue 1st and then sang. She chose a different song (with an easier accompaniment) for this 2nd audition. Unfortunately, she says that she could not get her voice to work. She says that her tone was weak and fuzzy. But, the accompanist did a good job. D did not tell the auditors that her vocal cords were swollen. She thought it would sound like she was making excuses. I have no idea if she sang as badly as she seems to think she did or not. Thankfully, she's already been accepted into the program and they won't rescind her admission. I don't expect that she'll get any additional talent money this year. We're still hopeful that she'll get more academic scholarship money.

Students were told that as soon as they had enough people finished with their vocal and acting auditions they would be escorted to a dance studio for the dance audition. In December the students did their dance audition in 2 different groups. This past Friday they waited until every student had finished singing and acting and took everyone into the dance studio together. D doesn't know why they didn't take them in smaller groups as they had told them they would. The dance studio was crowded. I think there were about 35 students auditioning that day. The dance instructor remembered my D from the Dec. audition. D saw her pointing at her and whispering to the director of artistic recruitment before the dance audition began. D says they did an excellent ballet warmup then learned a jazz combination. She was asked to demonstrate several times for the group. (She was the only student asked to demonstrate. This happened at the Dec. audition also.) D enjoyed the jazz combo. She felt that it allowed the dancers to show their ability to dance expressively. She enjoyed being given a combo that could be performed. She does feel that the FSU audition had more emphasis on technique. D told me that everyone, non-dancers included, did get through the combination. The big problem on Friday was crowding. The kids were bumping into each other while they were learning the combo as a group. As at all of the schools she's auditioned for, they were broken into small groups so they could be evaluated as individuals.

We left Point Park at around 6:00. The audition day took 5 hours. The time frame was the same in Dec. We crawled through a snowstorm to Penn State. The normal 3 hour trip took 5 hours. We worried that we were wasting the trip given the state of D's vocal cords. My husband and I decided that we were going to have to speak to the department chair along with our D. We feared that she'd have a shyness attack and not say anything to the auditors about her vocal problem. D hardly slept at all the night before the audition.

The audition at Penn State began at 8:30 in the Arts Building. D was very nervous because of her vocal problem. My husband and reassured her that most faculty would be understanding and that we would help her explain her situation to the department chair. We spoke with Cary Libkin as soon as he arrived. He was very understanding. He told D that she could reschedule if she wanted. We decided that she would try to sing and that she and he together would decide if she should come back and sing a 2nd time. He said he'd explain her predicament to the rest of the auditors. I could see D visibly relax after we spoke to Mr. Libkin. She said something to the effect that everything would be all right now.

Parents were escorted to a large rehearsal room and students were taken to a large rehearsal room across the hall. The parents were treated to a talk by Mr. Libkin and a question and answer session while the students were doing their dance warmup and being taught a ballet combo. Mr. Libkin told us that he would be going into the audition room to observe when the kids were ready to dance in groups of 3. D says that the dance audition was in between her FSU and Point Park auditions. Not as much emphasis on technique as FSU and not as much emphasis on the ability to perform as Point Park. When Mr. Libkin left the room two MT students told us about Penn State from their perspective and answered questions. It was nice to hear things from the student side of the table. Mr. Libkin came back in the room when the ballet audition ended and talked a bit more. At that point the kids were learning a jazz combo. Mr. Libkin went back in the audition room when the students were ready to perform in groups of 3. We parents continued our question and answer session with the MT students. After the dance audition a list of individual times was posted for the vocal/acting auditions. Kids and parents were told that some students would be invited to stay for an interview after their auditions. (They didn't tell them that only students they were actually interested in would be invited for an interview.)

The vocal/acting auditions were held in the same room as the dance audition. The room the parents had been in became the holding pen for the students. We grownups were kicked out and allowed to roam the Arts Building, the very cold, snowy campus, or we could lounge in a conference room with the kids auditioning/interviewing for drama and technical theatre and their parents. The kids did a group vocal warmup under the direction of the music director, Beverly Patton. While the kids were waiting to audition they could talk with several current MT students who stayed in the room with them. Cary Libkin, Beverly Patton, and dance instructor Spence Ford observed all portions of the audition. I personally like having all of the auditors see and hear everthing the kids do at their auditions. My D was number 4 out of 32. She says things went surprisingly well. She sang much better than she did at Point Park. She says her voice was at about 70 - 75% normal. Mr. Libkin teased her a bit about the sob story she'd given him that morning. He said that she sounded beautiful and that there was no need to come back and sing again. She was asked to stay for an interview.

Interviews were not held until after all vocal/acting auditions were concluded. D was told she would have about an hour before she needed to come back for her interview. We made a mad dash out to find something to eat. We got back in under an hour and discovered that there'd been no reason to rush. In the 1st half hour of the auditions the auditors listened to 7 kids. It took them an hour to get through the next 7 and they still had 18 more to go. The process seemed to get slower and slower as the day went on. My D finished her interview at 3:30. The other parents in the conference room groaned when they found out that she was number 4.

D felt that her audition went very well considering and that the faculty seemed very interested in her. One interesting side note: there was a dad there from Maryland who was in the original cast of "Parade" and who sings on the cast album. I didn't learn his name. He was there with his daughter who was auditioning for MT. I think that Penn State is the friendliest place we've been to so far. Cary Libkin seems to be very personable and gave me the impression that he is a caring educator. The only thing I've seen so far that seems to be a minus is that kids don't take a private voice lesson during their 1st semester. They take a one hour group voice class and get 15 minutes of individual instruction per week. Private voice lessons begin the 2nd semester, but they are only 1/2 long until the junior year, when they expand to one hour in length. My D currently takes a one hour lesson with a voice faculty member at CCM and a one hour lesson with a vocal coach every week. If she gets accepted I'll definitely ask about the possibility of getting additional time with private teachers. Penn State has rolling admission. We were told we'd get a decision in about 2 weeks. Admission will be offered to around 16 kids. They hope that 10 to 12 kids will enroll. Mr. Libkin told us that some years they get a larger class than they thought they would and sometimes a smaller one. They don't worry about it. We parents were also told that they don't have a quota for boys and girls. They offer admission to the candidates that they feel are the best match for the program regardless of sex. (Reality Check. I'm sure that does not mean that they'd actually offer spots to 15 girls and only 1 boy.) We spent a half hour or so doing a driving tour of the campus, then we headed back to Pittsburgh. The return trip was much quicker -no snow!

D's Carnegie Mellon audition was set for 1:00 on Sunday. She seemed to be in a good mood Saturday night. She was happy that the faculty at Penn State seemed to respond positively. I thought she was pretty relaxed going into the CMU audition. She told me later that she was a nervous wreck Saturday night. I couldn't tell.

The audition day started in a large rehearsal room. There were 20 kids there auditioning for MT and around 6 or 7 auditioning for drama. Auditioners were photographed by CMU student assistants and given a brief questionnaire to fill out. My husband and I took D in hand and spoke to music director Gary Kline about her problem as soon as he came in the room. Just as at Penn State, he agreed that he would evaluate her singing and if necessary invite her to come back for a 2nd hearing. Mr. Kline and MT coordinator Barbara McKenzie-Wood talked to us for about 15 minutes. The MT kids were then divided into 2 groups. One group went to a dance studio for the dance audition. The other 10 kids were escorted to either their acting or their vocal auditions. D was in the acting/singing group 1st. CMU students acted as hosts for the students and were available to answer questions throughout the afternoon. CMU's audition process is very efficient. Gary Kline listened to the songs, one of the acting instructors listened to the monologues, and a dance teacher ran the dance audition. Kids were rotated between the acting teacher's room and Mr. Kline's room. D says her vocal audition went reasonably well. She thinks her voice behaved better at Penn State, but says she sang much better than at Point Park. Mr. Kline said she needn't have even mentioned that she was having a problem. He said she sounded very good and there was no reason to come back. I hope the positive comments at Penn State and CMU can be taken at face value. D of course, wishes that they could have heard her at her best. Both Mr. Kline and the acting teacher talked with her about her training. She's managed to mention that she's SAFD (Society of American Fight Directors) certified in rapier and dagger at both CMU and Penn State. As usual everyone wanted to know about CCM prep and if she's auditioning for CCM.

D says that CMU's dance audition was the easiest one she's had so far. She said all the kids did a pretty good job. They were taught a very short ballet combo and a very short jazz combo. Both involved a lot of posing.

My brain has gone numb after 3 days in a row of auditions. It seems like D finished at CMU around 3:30. It was the quickest audition experience we've had.

CMU does not have rolling admission. Their last audition day is Feb. 29, so I imagine we'll hear something in March.

We found somehing to eat on CMU's campus then hit the road to try to beat the weather. As I mentioned in an earlier post, we found the snow 120 miles east of Columbus, OH. We managed to slog home safely, however. D's next audition is at CCM on Feb. 14. We only have to drive 17 miles for that one. Yea!!! I hope the mischief gods are done with D for awhile. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that the vocal problems will soon be over and that the east coast doesn't get snowed in when she goes to Boston on Feb. 21.

I hope some of you will post regarding your audition experiences. I always enjoy reading them. If any of you have any questions, fire away. Good luck to everyone with the remaining auditions.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 03:31 pm: Edit

Oops! I forgot to tell you that Penn State has kids do an ear training exam after they sing. They are asked to sing back short melodies that are played for them on the piano. D say that some of them were difficult - difficult intervals, big leaps, unexpected contour. There's not anything you seniors can do to prepare at this late date, but you younger students can help yourselves by starting or continuing your music instruction. Sight singing will be a part of the curriculum at all of the better programs. (It can be a fun course - I used to teach it!)

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 05:01 pm: Edit

Jennysq:

Given your d's voice teacher's qualifications, I see no need to hire someone else to prepare her for auditions. His background is in musical theatre, he's served as musical director for reputable companies, and clearly knows theatre and the MT repertoire. She'll do fine with him. I only suggested a coach if the voice teacher does not know MT rep--and many of them do not.

Dancersmom:

I can't thank you enough for the kind words. I hope that I've been helpful. But as anyone could tell from your posts, there are many, many good teachers out there: Cary Libkin and Gary Kline and Kate Gelabert, and the list goes on and on. Thank you for YOUR contributions to this conversation. It's nearly impossible for us in the profession to find out how other departments handle these things, and we all want to learn. Your service is invaluable to us as well.

By Dramaqueen22 (Dramaqueen22) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 07:01 pm: Edit

Dr. John...I have been reading your posts for a while, and for some reason I missed when you said you worked at Otterbein. I just now read that while looking through old posts. I live one exit down from Otterbein, know a number of students there, and have a drama teacher whose husband works there. Because of this, I often go see your shows. My drama program (Eastland Performing Arts Program) is, I believe, coming to see the dress rehersal of your performance of "The Music Man", which I am extremely excited about (its one of my favorite musicals). Anyway, I just wanted to tell you how impressed I have always been with the students in your program and your shows. Although I probably won't be attending Otterbein (I don't think I can be that close to my parents!) I really do have tremendous respect for your program. I just thought I would tell you that, from a fellow Columbus resident. Its nice to have good theater close by ;)

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 07:17 pm: Edit

One more addendum to my litany:

At both Penn State and CMU students were asked to prepare the usual 2 contrasting songs. No restrictions on length were given. When we arrived at both schools, students were asked not to sing both songs in their entirety. They were asked at Penn State to sing one song all the way through, but without any repeats, and to do 16 to 32 bars (32 if it was the up-tempo piece) of the 2nd song. They were told they could consult with the accompanist if they were unsure of how much material to sing. At CMU the kids were asked to try to keep both of their numbers to 32 bars. Gary Kline told the kids not to stop in the middle of a word. I thought he was being facetious. I couldn't believe anyone would be that foolish, but he said that someone had done just that at an earlier audition! He reassured the students that 33 bars or so really would be okay so that the phrase could end. He told the students they could consult with him in the audition room on how much material to sing if they felt unsure. My D already had appropriate cuts marked in both of her pieces. I know that some people are very unnerved by the unexpected, so I'm forwarning you.

Doctorjohn,

Thank you. I'm trying to return the favor that so many other posters have done for me and my daughter. A simple example: D would not have auditioned at either FSU or Penn State if I had not been reading this thread. Penn State was simply not on my radar screen at 1st. I saw the school mentioned by a couple of posters and decided to check it out. PSU has a difficult to navigate website. If you don't type in theatre in the web address you access very little info about the department. As my husband loves to joke, "you can't get there from here!" I tried a couple of times to find out something about their MT program and found out almost nothing. I had decided to write off the program, but the school's name kept popping up on this thread. Another mom wrote about the strength of the dance training and I decided to e-mail the department. I got a packet of information and a letter from Cary Libkin and the School of Theatre web address. I discovered that my daughter and I liked the program on paper and decided to have her audition there.

We had a similar situation with FSU. I had looked very briefly at their website and thought they seemed to have a very strong program, but no one around here knew anything about the program. Around a year ago I scratched it off the list of possible schools. I thought it was too far away from our home and too far away from NYC. I believed the program was probably oriented toward employment at theme parks and on cruise ships rather than Broadway. (I don't think that either of those things is bad, but my D really wants to try her hand in New York after graduation.) When I read a post last year from someone saying that they had the toughest dance audition of any school my ears perked up. My D's strongest area is dance, though I must say I really think she is one of those rare triple threat performers, and we had been looking for a program where she would be able to continue dancing at least at her current skill level. I immediately took a 2nd, much more careful look at the program and loved what I saw.

The number of MT programs is large and it's hard to sift through them all trying to find good matches. The other parents and kids who post their impressions have been invaluable to me. You have brought another dimension to the table and I appreciate it. Thanks so much for your advice.

By Path1 (Path1) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 07:25 pm: Edit

My D had pneumonia last spring and says her voice hasn't returned to its pre-pnuemonia state in quality or range. She has just turned 15 and is a freshman. Has anyone heard of this possibility? She loves singing in the hs choir but we haven't done any privates due to lack of time (piano and massive amounts of soccer).

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 07:49 pm: Edit

This is something of an aside, but I just remembered something that initially struck me as odd about my kid's CCM experience, but that in retrospect reinforces the notion that conservatory programs are focused on the business of theatre, not broad education. The senior year in MT at CCM ends after only two quarters and culminates with the showcase in NYC. As I understand it, this is timed to get the kids to New York in March thereby giving them a head start. Most of them (my daughter included) go to New York, do the showcase, and simply stay. Does anyone know if this is typical of other programs?

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 08:46 pm: Edit

Path1--

That is PRECISELY what happened to me, only with mono. It was very depressing; my voice was awful for a good nine or ten months.

I was fortunate enough to be able to work through it by beginning private voice lessons. My less-than-stellar technique had been all right before the mono, but afterward -- while trying to use that same technique -- my voice couldn't handle it. I would highly, highly suggest finding a voice teacher that you trust and working through it. If that is impossible, you can make an appointment with a laryngologist or a voice specialist who works with singers and see if they have some suggestions as to what you can do.

Best of luck to your daughter.

Dancersmom--

Thanks so much for your in-depth info. I have to go cheer (yes, I know, horrible for the voice), but I will be sure to pepper you with questions when I get a chance. :-)

Shauna

By Monkey (Monkey) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 10:03 pm: Edit

Dancersmom,
Kudos to you and your daughter for your perseverance regarding navigating difficult web sites for MT schools. My daughter was likely one of the students you met at the Jan. 24 Penn State audition. Feel free to e mail me if you have any further questions. Your instinct about Cary Libkin being a caring director is correct. He is the mainstay of a group of amazing intructors in that program.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 10:45 pm: Edit

More reports from the audition front!!

Over the last ten days, my daughter has auditioned at the University of Michigan (UM), Cincinnati Conservatory College of Music (CCM) and Carnegie Mellon (CMU). She is interested in pursuing a BFA in Musical Theatre at all three.

I will spare you all the detailed nightmare stories of our travel - suffice it to say that January in the Midwest, coming from Philadelphia, isn't a vacation wonderland. Just picture cancelled plane flights, lost luggage (buying $85 worth of toiletries and make-up at a 24 hour supermart in Ann Arbor at 11:30pm....) etc. Great for the anxiety level, not to mention sleep patterns.

UM was terrfic. Extremely well organized and "user-friendly." We loved hearing from 3 MT students as a group at our introduction to the program. The Department Chair, Brent Wagner, was fabulous. He said everything I wanted to hear. The UM program is challenging, disciplined, diverse and nurturing. It also seems uniquely well-balanced, with equal attention given to acting, voice and dance. Also, they value intelligence and curiosity in their students. They do not have a cut policy. They believe that academic theatre is a place where students should be encouraged to take risks, as that is the only way to stretch and grow. Accordingly, they believe that an important part of their job is to provide a safe environment that supports the taking of such risks. I couldn't agree more. We had the opportunity to meet many other students over the course of the day as they functioned as monitors of the audition process. My daughter and I both came away feeling that this was a program full of hard-working, really smart, talented kids who had parked their egos at the door. They spoke of their classmates with pride and a sense of community. While they all seemed very highly motivated, there was no sense that these kids were made to feel that they had to compete with each other. They were working toward common goals.
Dancersmom has written earlier of the specifics of their audition process. I can only add that my daughter felt they offered the best dance audition she has had - a full 45 minute ballet barre followed by a jazz combo. Both the acting faculty member she saw (2 different teachers heard monologues) and the faculty judging the vocal portion (she sang for Brent Wagner and one of the dance/MT faculty) did everything they could to put her at ease. We are especially interested in the UM program because it is housed in the UM School of Music and would allow (they would actually encourage!) her to continue to explore her interest in classical vocal performance. Several of the students expressed the opinion that UM actually prefers "legit" style singing. To my mind, that just means they appreciate singers who have learned to use their voices correctly, who don't strain or push their voices. We left there feeling like the UM program would be a fabulous fit for my daughter.

She auditioned the next day at CCM. I have followed the ongoing thread in this discussion that continues to bash CCM and I have tried very hard to keep an open mind. I've said in the past that I appreciate the fact that they seem to clearly articulate what they are looking for in their students and I applaud MtDad for his explanation of the basis for the CCM formula. It makes perfect sense to me. That being said, I wish I could report that our experience at CCM was an enjoyable one. It certainly was consistent with what MtDad has written about the school. Quite the opposite of the experience we have had at several other schools, I felt that the CCM representatives did everything they could to heighten the anxiety of the kids waiting to audition. By the end of the process, I felt that several actions bordered on intimidation. The opening speech to the group was filled with references to the exceptional expectations they have of their students and why it made sense to have a cut policy - "We will accept between 22-24 students, but we will graduate no more than 15." This talk was delivered by two people from Admissions. We (the parents) were never treated to an appearance by the infamous Chair of the Department, Aubrey Berg. Guess he was too busy. He did speak to the kids prior to their dance audition, where he took the opportunity to tell them that the facilities cost 130 million dollars. My daughter did her imitation of him afterwards and it was a dead ringer for Dr Evil ( as in Austin Powers....) They then had three senior boys perform a dance number and two senior girls sing for the kids. They were told that "this is what we are looking for - and they've only been working on these numbers since Wednesday!" And this is BEFORE the kids start their auditions.......

The process itself was very well organized and efficient. I felt that it mirrored the $130 million dollars worth of facilities. No question that they are amazingly beautiful and technically advanced, especially inside the theatres themselves. I found the outer spaces (lobbies, hallways, etc) cold and unwelcoming. I felt like the place had everything but a heart. My daughter left saying that although she felt like her audition had gone okay, she had no expectations of being accepted. She just knew that she was not the type of student/performer who would be welcomed or who would thrive there. She said that she is hard enough on herself without having to worry that every choice she made, every risk she would take, might be judged and held against her in an evaluation of her potential to stay in the program. Just not how she wants to work. I understand that they feel they are replicating the world they believe these kids will enter after their college training is complete. We just disagree with their philosophy of training. It's not "wrong." It's just not for my daughter.

This past weekend, we traveled by car to CMU. My daughter had spent six weeks in their Pre-College Musical Theatre program last summer and loved it. She was perhaps a bit more nervous going back there, anticipating seeing faculty members she had worked with last summer. The audition itself was just as Dancersmom described it. We were in a morning session with a like number of applicants. My daughter felt very comfortable with the process and also felt that she was encouraged and supported to show her best. She actually said that they were much more relaxed in these auditions than they were in the mock auditions that were held at the end of the summer. She also participated in the Sleeping Bag weekend. She really had no need to do that, having already lived there, but we were told that she had to do it in order to get an on-campus interview and to audition in January (she really wanted to complete her auditions as early as possible - maybe enjoy some part of her senior year in high school?). Well the weather turned ugly but I'm not sure that is an excuse for what happened on Monday (the auditions were on Sunday and later in the day each kid was matched with a current student and spent the evening and night with them in their dorm) First of all, my daughter was placed with a computer science student who knew nothing of the Drama program and who was too busy to really spend much time with her. The next morning, the MT/drama kids were directed to go to the Theatre at 8:45 in the morning where they were to hear a presentation from the drama faculty and be given a list of classes they could observe during the day. NO ONE from the faculty showed up! My daughter called me at the hotel and when I called the admissions office to find out what was going on, I was told "Well, you know the weather is pretty bad and is affecting things....." The kids ended up following a current student to an acting class which was interesting but my daughter had to leave it early in order to make her interview. Talk about a waste of time. When she got there, she was given to an admissions person who didn't have her file, had never seen her file and who basically said to her "So you want to be an actor - cool! Tell me about that....Do you have any questions for me? Okay, Good luck, Bye." Wow.

I must say that I have never been impressed with the quality of communication skills at CMU. The administration never seems to coordinate its activites with the individual departments. It was a problem last summer and it was a problem last weekend. That being said, I don't think it has anything to do with the quality of the theatre training that goes on there. I believe CMU has the best acting training in the country and the MT program still is very attractive to my daughter, despite a marked weakness in dance. The other stuff is a problem for parents. I don't think it really affects the kids. But if you as parents can't work around this issue, CMU will not be a good fit for you. If I did not think it would cause undue negative attention on my daughter, I would write a long letter and/or call someone in the Administration and share my frustrations. There seem to be just too many people having similar issues with the school and they need to know it and deal with it. Maybe after the audition/acceptance process is complete......

Hope the above is helpful in some way. We have one, maybe two auditions left (depending on the outcome from some of the schools that we should hear from before the last scheduled audition at Boston Conservatory). We'll be very glad when this is completed and we have some outcome or another. I must say I was reminded these past two weekends of how much I have enjoyed meeting and talking to other parents at these auditions who are sharing this path. Many of us have seen each other at more than one audition and everyone has been of wonderful support. Thanks to any of you I have met and who are reading this thread and to the rest of you who continue to contribute to this discussion. We're quite a team!

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 12:11 am: Edit

I need to thank all of you for all these great contributions. But I need more help. Being from MI NA So TA and never having lived east of the Mississippi I am having trouble putting together our spring look see. (April 1 – 10) I am of a belief that it is helpful to tour the school before audition time. (Doctorjohn? Is it helpful seeing the students before the auditions?) My son has voiced his interest in the following schools for this trip: CCM, Otterbein, Carnegie Mellon, Baldwin Wallace, Penn State, Point Park and Michigan. He believes that as long as we are at it we should check out Boston Conservatory and NYU – but I think they are more just to see friends there and get to a Broadway show. (I know we’ve deprived the kid – but he’s been white water rafting in MT and Hobie Cat sailing in the Caribbean. Poor kids stuck with a couple of athletes for parents. Remember I’m the tone deaf parent – I don’t know where this kid came from.)

I need your opinions. I will bore you with a brief refresher of his needs so you can help me tailor this trip. S is a Jr. just short of 3 yrs. in MT. who started with vocal coaching about 18 months ago. His coach teaches at U of M and does Musical Directing at both the Guthrie and (TONY AWARD winning!) Mpls. Children’s Theatre Company. S is presently in CTC audition only training program. He just started heavy duty acting and dancing lessons this past year. He is TDH, somewhat shy and conservative, but extremely mature, takes being a PETA member very seriously. B student, but astounds his teachers with projects they always ask to keep. He wants a REAL college experience – which I understand to mean he wants a campus that looks like he has seen in the movies. He attends a very competitive HS with nearly 4000 students.

I am concerned with:
CCM - he can be very sarcastic when people have attitudes.
CM- more with me than him – I am anal with organization.

We are thinking of flying into Columbus and renting a car. Any suggestions for schools, (either adding or subtracting) travel anything (even hotel recommendations near these schools) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much – you are all the greatest!

Jenifer

By Cato (Cato) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 12:45 am: Edit

I've heard that some classical music faculty from music schools look down on MT programs. Has anyone experienced that at any of the colleges that have MT programs, or is it only at those that don't? Is it anything to be concerned about in looking at colleges? I know Michigan and Ithaca, for example, have excellent classical programs.

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 07:50 am: Edit

Ah- and I forgot to ask the most important part for someone ignorant in NYC. How do we get there? I mean would it be best to drive to somewhere and take a train in or is there a park and ride. I really can't see us driving our car into the city and gaping like yokels to get somewhere. So directions of how to do this and a suggestion of where to stay would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks!
Jenifer

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 10:16 am: Edit

I am trying this post again. It didn't seem to come up last night when I tried. My daughter auditioned in NYC for Shenandoah yesterday. Anybody out there have any experience with the school- positive or negative?

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 10:59 am: Edit

Clueless (you're not) mc2:

Yes, you should visit schools before auditions. Although it is possible to do a campus visit during auditions--especially if you can come the day before the audition--it's really better for prospects to see schools when they can think straight. During auditions, they're crazed. So spring break is ideal, because colleges are in session and there are theatre majors around to talk to. They are, hands down, the best source of information about programs.

Your particular tour seems ambitious and may be exhausting, but if you and your son are up for it, more power to you. Others may want to consider seeing three schools or so during spring break. I'd suggest looking at different kinds of programs, and I also suggest not trying to do more than one school in a day. Give yourself time to meet with admissions counselors and a departmental representative (if available), go on a tour, have lunch with theatre majors, visit some classes and see at least part of a rehearsal or performance in the evening. Too many families leave town before doing this last piece, and miss what they can learn from seeing the actual work that a program produces.

About classes: schools have different policies about who can see what. At my school, for example, prospectives can take a dance class and may sit in on any class. Parents may visit any class except for acting. We've discovered that the presence of parents tends to change the focus of the acting students from process work to performance. Some schools don't want any outsider in their acting classes, for similar reasons. And there may be some critical evening rehearsals where the director doesn't want observers.

So the best thing to do is call ahead and ask these questions: "When is the best time to come and see (or take) class? Can we meet with the program chair, or a faculty member? Is there a rehearsal or performance we can visit? Can the admissions counsellor talk to us about financial aid? When can we talk to students who are majoring in musical theatre?" Be nice, but be persistent.

[Sidebar: Many years ago, when I was consulting with the Kansas Alliance for Arts Education, I met an elementary school principal with a wonderful motto, which she had printed on t-shirts for her entire staff. The motto was, she told us, the way she'd successfully infused the arts into her school curriculum. The t-shirt read, on the front, "Gentle Pressure", and on the back, "Relentlessly Applied."]

As for your particular trip, there are certainly lots of different ways to do it. If you rent a car from a company that will alow you to drop it off somewhere other than the place you picked it up, here's one possibility: fly to Detroit, get the car, see U. Michigan in Ann Arbor, take I-75 to Cincinnati and see CCM, go up I-71 to Columbus and see Otterbein, continue up I-71 to Cleveland to see Baldwin-Wallace, take I-76 to Pittsburgh and visit Carnegie-Mellon and Point Park. Drop the car off and fly to NYC. Don't drive into the city! You can take shuttles from either LaGuardia or Newark straight to your hotel, and then use cabs and the subway. Hotels.com has good listings.

The major school in NY is, of course, NYU, and if you've been reading this thread, you'll know that they have two different MT programs, one housed in Tisch and the other at Steinhardt--both are worth looking at. Go back through previous parts and you'll find lots of comments about both. Then fly to Boston, see Boston Conservatory, and fly home.

It doesn't sound like nearly as much fun as Hobie cat sailing in the Caribbean--you know it's not nice to torture us with that image at this time of year, don't you?--but it should be illuminating.

Good luck.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 11:08 am: Edit

I suggest listing all of the schools you ideally or possibly want to visit. Check websites to see if they are in session during the time S wants to visit. (spring break). Set up a tentative itinerary. It is early enough to get a decent deal on flights. If you come east to NYC, generally take a cab or shuttle into the city. The website for the colleges will generally have some info. In NYC, I generally take cabs, buses and subways depending on mood, weather and finances. If you visit NYU they have listings of hotels they recommend in the area at various price ranges. You can take a train up to Boston and visit school up there from NYC and return to NYC or fly out of Boston. I use Orbitz to sketch out my plans. Boston again has great public transportation.
If you are looking at some outlying NYC schools, you may want to rent a car and drive to Boston IF you are not intimidated by city driving. Both Boston and NYC can be scary for people who are not used to driving in big cities. I do it all of the time though I hate it. There are other schools with strong theatre departments, not necessarily musical theatre in the area between Boston and NYC and you can stay at a hotel in between the two cities. Two schools definitely worth visiting are Harrt and Purchase, both with strong MT programs. Both in between Boston and NY.
Also as far as safeties, is soemone has his heart set on NYC, it is possible to get into a school like Eugene Lang, Pace Universtiy, Fordham and take theatre courese from the same studios that Tisch uses. NYU is the big daddy of the MT schools in NY but it is also the most expensive. There are many ways to get to where you want to go.

By Dramamama (Dramamama) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 01:58 pm: Edit

I do not believe that Purchase has a major for MT. They are big into acting and offer some other things like dance and music but don't offer the BFA in musical theatre per se.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 03:15 pm: Edit

Jamimom,

Although your suggestion that students get into another NYC school and take theatre courses at the studios Tisch uses sounds like a good idea, in reality it wouldn't be possible. At my studio, for instance, they offer a two year conservatory program for non-Tisch students but the time constraints are such that the student would not be able to attend college at the same time. It would be possible to take the part-time program, I suppose, but that is very basic. The other part-time classes are really geared to individuals who have more experience and most would not be appropriate for students who have not taken college-level theatre courses. It's possible that courses offered at the other studios might be different but from what I've heard, I doubt it.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 06:10 pm: Edit

Hi, all.

I was looking for the link on the Tisch website about the "advanced dance" component of the MT audition. This is all I could find about the audition:

Musical Theatre
Two contrasting, two-minute contemporary monologues and one song from a musical - up-tempo or ballad. Applicants must provide accompaniment on a CD or standard cassette tape.


Where is the dance information found? I'd really appreciate a link or something to help find this information.

So far it looks like (possibly with the Tisch) Michigan (from this thread) and Otterbein (from their "dance concentration" and their four year class schedule) have the strongest dance components in their MT programs. Does this sound right? I think Western Michigan University probably is strong in all three areas because the university itself is strong in all, but it looks like they are trying to make classical singers out of their MT students. Anybody know about Northern Colorado University and dance in the MT?

By Marcie (Marcie) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 11:04 pm: Edit

Mtmommy:
My daughter is a theatre major at University of Northern Colorado. She auditioned for musical theatre also, but was not accepted. The dance audition was very minimal (a few steps individually for the head of the program). She has attended both musicals so far this year, and said the singing and dancing were excellent (couldn't say the same about the acting, however). They have a dance major there, so the MT majors take classes with them, I assume.

You left Florida State off your list of programs with strong dance.

One of the things about the MT field that puzzles me is that so few of the MT programs are focused on dance, and yet if you think of it, the majority of jobs in MT are for dancers who sing and act--the chorus of musicals. It's truly a logical disconnect. The MT education programs as a whole in all of the U.S. focus on singers, I think. You have to be able to act, yes, and dance to some extent. But your first jobs out of college, and maybe your only jobs or your whole career, are most likely going to be in the chorus of musicals, often in touring companies, and those people are dancers first or they wouldn't get the jobs (unless some type of character role, which probably wouldn't go to newcomers anyway). The dancers in the chorus of most musicals have been dancing for many years and didn't stop training during college years. So the MT programs without very strong dance (which would be most programs) seem sort of uninformed as to reality, or something similar.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 11:36 pm: Edit

Marcie,

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on the MT/dancer issue. If you look at Broadway shows now and in the past five years, possibly longer, you'll see that most of the individuals who are cast, ensemble included, are singers first and foremost. Even in shows like 42nd St., which is a very dance-driven show, the majority of the cast are singers who can dance. In shows that are less dance-driven, there are even fewer 'dancers who can sing'. The exception might be Movin' Out, but that would be the only one currently running. In many shows, ensemble members are swings who have to cover several different roles. The fact is that you aren't going to be cast in a Broadway, off-Broadway, or national tour (even the non-eq ones) if you can't sing.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 11:38 pm: Edit

Mtmommy...I am TOTALLY uninformed or simply not an authority on this but in regard to the question to do with dance and the auditions for Tisch.....
just tonight my fifteen year old whose heart is set on Tisch and she has many friends who go there .....was telling me on our way home from dance class that one of her friends at Tisch who she saw this past weekend when in the NY area (we live in VT) was telling her that you can attend the dance audition as well and if you do, that helps for those wanting to get into Cap21. Cannot confirm that and surely someone else on here could. If this is true, that would be good for my own child as she sings, acts, and dances. Look into that dance audition. Maybe EmilyP will answer this post.
Susan

By Marcie (Marcie) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 12:34 am: Edit

Emily, I am sure you are more up to date on the field than I am, so I must not have that right. Maybe I am thinking of big production style numbers, maybe also influenced by movie versions of musicals, such as Chicago.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 06:42 am: Edit

MTMommy,
Add Penn State to your list of MT schools with a strong dance component. MT majors that are also serious dance students can add several classes per semester to the requirements listed. The dance instructor in this program is tough and demanding and prepares the students for the reality of the professional world. She has extensive experience on Broadway as a performer and choreographer, and is one of the best components of the Penn State MT program.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 09:18 am: Edit

I would have to agree with Emily that foremost in musical theater, you really have to be able to sing. That said, being a triple threat who sings, dances, and acts is ideal.

Some casting calls are for dancers who sing. Some are for singers who dance. So, yes, for some roles, the emphasis is on one or the other. Like someone said, for ensemble/chorus. But while the chorus might not have to be the most amazing singers, they still have to be able to sing well.

Funny you are discussing this cause my fifteen year old was in NYC a couple days ago to attend an audition. Since we were down there (live in VT), she wanted to take a dance class at Broadway Dance Center. It was the highest level jazz class, all adults, and she loved the challenge. She has taken one tap class there like that too (in fact, the lead from Movin' Out that she saw the previous night on that trip was in her class!). Anyway, she said as she was waiting for her class to begin, and standing in a hallway, she was listening to another class that seemed to be vocals, or maybe musical theater. She said it appeared to perhaps be a class aimed at dancers who sing. She knows that there are chorus calls for such things. She commented about how awful they sounded! No generalizations here but it is coincidental that she made this remark and now we are talking of being great dancers in musical theater but truly you also have to be able to sing!!

Susan

By Cato (Cato) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 01:22 pm: Edit

Isn't the bottom-line that you have to be at least good in all 3 areas of acting, singing and dance, and excellent in at least 1 (whichever 1 or more the part emphasizes?)

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Of course any aspiring MT performer should be able to sing well. I don't know of any college MT programs that admit students who are strong dancers that don't sing well. That being said, I know that there are kids who are very strong dancers who are also very talented singers (and actors for that matter). I know that my D, Theatermom's D, and Mtheatremom's D are all very very talented dancers. (I'm sure there are more of you out there - sorry if I left you out.) In my D's case she started dancing at the age of 5. Like most dancers who have a very high skill level, she started at a very young age. Singers typically start their instruction much older. Most of the teachers in my area recommend waiting until a student is well into adolescence before beginning voice lessons. As Doctorjohn mentioned it is hard for many young dancers to learn to use their chest and abdominal muscles correctly when they sing. BUT, it is certainly not impossible. I've had the feeling before on this forum that some people believe that those of us who have said we are looking for a program with a strong dance emphasis must have kids who can't sing well. That is certainly not the case. I said when I 1st began posting on this forum around a year ago that dance is my D's strongest area. That's because dance skill develops early. Most dancers who will have a professional ballet career enter a company in their mid to late teens. The career starts early and typically ends early. Most dancers stop dancing professionally in their early 30's. A teenaged singer's voice is still developing. An opera singer's voice is not considered mature until the 30's. When I and others say that dance is a student's strongest skill, we are saying that that student's dance skill has developed to a professional or close to a professional level, as it should by the age of 17. The student's voice is still developing. My husband and I are both musicians, so I feel somewhat qualified in saying that our D has a great deal of vocal talent. I simply expect that she will make more progress as a singer over the next few years than she will as a dancer. I believe that she and the other strong dancers that I have met through this forum are very competitive singers. I can see no disadvantage to being able to go into either a college or a professional dance audition as a very strong dancer.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 05:52 pm: Edit

For all of you who have had difficulty with CMU, I have some interesting news to report. I got a telephone call this afternoon from the Director of Admissions at CMU. I am still trying to figure out how he found out about the difficulties we had this weekend (on Monday actually - drama faculty not showing up to give the kids a schedule of classes to observe, unprepared interviewer, etc.) He said he heard from the admissions person who helped coordinate the audition process, but we never talked to her.

Regardless of how he got the information, he could not have been nicer or more solicitous. He was not in the least bit defensive and seemed only to want the feedback so they could improve the experience for all involved. We talked for almost 45 minutes. In addition to recounting our experiences, I shared the information I have read here about the difficulty some people have reported regarding refunds due for cancelled auditions, scheduling issues, etc. He said that in very busy times like these, they do have people answering the phones who are there to do just that - answer the phones and answer simple questions. Anything complicated or out of the ordinary they are usually not equipped to answer and should pass along to a counselor. He said people should always feel free to request to speak to an admissions counselor. I told him that people don't always know that they are NOT speaking to one and he agreed. He told me I should feel free to tell people who have had problems to contact him personally and he would try to resolve the issues. He did say that their policy is to refund audition fees so long as the audition is cancelled PRIOR to the audition date. Otherwise they have lost a slot they could have offered to another candidate. That makes sense and seems fair to me.

I don't want to post the contact info he gave me on this website, but anyone who has a real issue they think he could resolve, please email me, and I'll be happy to pass along his info to you.

I'll reiterate, I really believe this to be a quality program and a caring university. I hope everyone who is really interested will give them a chance.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 07:49 pm: Edit

Thank you, all, for your responses to my post. I get something necessary from every one of you. Yes, dancersmom, I agree. I think there is a bit of an assumption that by looking for an MT program with good dance my daughter must stink as a singer. In defense of her, I'll brag so you know it's not true. I promise I won't brag again. Haha. My daughter is definitely a triple (maybe quadruple talent (I hate that phrase "triple threat"--it sounds so hostile). She's an advanced dancer who has attended summer intensives like American Ballet Theater (while jazz, lyrical, and tap are her specialties). She's also a very talented choreographer. But she's got a really powerful and lovely sounding belting voice. Her voice teacher is just wonderful. She just started competing in drama and first time out took top placing female in an important southern California drama competition.
However, I've been told by a few people, including the director of her high school musicals, that being a dancer will get her ahead faster and earlier on than the kids who can sing well and not dance very well. It's true that dance training must start early to be truly effective. That's not to say that people with talent can't learn darn passable dance at an older age. Anyway, I had to set the record straight about daughter so you guys don't think she's a hack.

You are all great about writing such great reports on schools and offering such good info. I'll definitely put Penn and Florida on the list then!

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 08:24 pm: Edit

My daughter and I are planning a trip to see Florida State over spring break. I had planned to see the U of Miami (FL) during the same trip. Looking at the map, however, it is a good 7 hour drive. Adding yet another flight from Tallahassee to Miami on top of flying to Tallahassee already gets a bit pricey. Does anyone know anything about Miami's program? Is it worth the trip? My daughter needs a program with a strong music base. Her biggest strength is her voice, but she too has been dancing since age 4. She's been taking acting lessons a couple of years and is being cast in lead roles of late so she's no slackard there either. She REALLY needs a strong vocal department to keep advancing her skill though. Any tidbits of information from anyone here on the Miami program? I'm grateful for your help!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 11:05 pm: Edit

I'd be the first to say that being a triple threat is the best in musical theater. Also, I would be one to want the musical theater program to be strong in dance, cause my child too has been dancing since age three. She dances five days per week, in all disciplines and in two dance repertory troupes. It would not be that satisfying to be in a program where dance was insignificant or too basic. Before I was just commenting on that while it is best to be able to dance very well for theater, you still need to be able to sing. Singing, afterall, is a major piece of every musical theater audition. Hopefully, a person can do both.

I find with many kids I see, that they are good in one or two areas, but not all three. I feel one thing going for my own child is having talent in each aspect, like some of your daughters. I noticed in one role she was cast in this past summer, The Leading Player in Pippin (played by Ben Vereen on Broadway), while originally meant for a male, I think they may have chosen her to play the role cause it really requires a person to be able to sing, dance and act (not every musical theater role needs all three). Like some of your kids, my daughter has also done choreography. She just directed and choreographed a musical production. She also has been choreographing for her tap dance troupe. So, yeah, I like hearing which programs involve dance as part of the audition. That is why when my daughter heard from one friend that at Tisch, you can participate at the dance audition besides the singing and monologues, if you want Cap 21 (hope this is correct!), she said that would be great.

While she does sing, dance and act, I would say as far as actual training/lessons, more have been in dance and voice than acting though has had some in that area as well...and of course actual productions. I think it is good to have both training and production experience. Most of the 40 or so productions she has done are musicals but she has done a few dramas. She prefers musicals by far but I have said that when she does a drama, it is nice to be able to focus purely on acting. Most recently she did The Crucible which is a departure for her cause a majority of the plays she has done before were more comedies and I think of her more as comedic. This was way more serious of a role. She was just cast as Dorothy in the HS production of Wizard of Oz, a role I guess every girl should play someday....sort of like Annie (lol) which she has played. She is not thrilled w/ the choice of production (last year they did Sondheim afterall!) but playing Dorothy at least made it easier to swallow. Surely not much dance with this role though.

Susan

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 12:17 am: Edit

Since we are on the subject of triple threats and such I thought I would throw in my two sense worth. This opinion is based on my personal experience.

The reality is, just being a good singer or dancer in a musical isn't enough anymore. Even if you are playing a role in an ensemble/chorus you must be a good actor. Every cast member in a show must be able to create a character on stage no matter if you have lines or not. The job of every performer in a musical or play, lead or not, is to create a believable character and that takes acting skills. Please do not diminish the importance of being a good actor in the MT field. The best ensembles are made up of talented singers and or dancers who can ACT.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 11:16 am: Edit

Musicalthtrmom,

I don't know anything about the MT program at U of Miami, so I can't help you there at all. About ten years ago, though, we traveled to Miami to check out the school for another discipline and were disappointed in the extreme in the school. It's possible that the school has improved in the past ten years and that they have a great MT program, but from what I saw ten years ago I wouldn't even consider that school for my daughter. I don't know if this helps or not, but I thought I'd share it since nobody else has responded yet. Good luck with your visit to schools!

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 11:30 am: Edit

Mtmommy...
THANKS for your response..can you elaborate on what disappointed you in particular?
From the website information, it's not an easy school to get into academically...and the music school is strong (one of our big requirements!). I do see that they ask for an art song to be among the songs sung during MT auditions. Those things speak strongly to me but because I haven't heard anyone on this thread talk about it or any one in our circle of MT contacts, I wonder about it!

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 11:36 am: Edit

I know that I said earlier that I would not say anything about other programs, but I do happen to know from a variety of sources, including a former student at Miami, that the program housed in the School of Music is quite good. David Alt, a classically trained singer, is in charge of the program, which offers a Bachelor of Music degree. I've met him, he's a good man, and his reputation in the business is quite strong. The alumni are doing well.

Interestingly, Miami also offers a BFA in Musical Theatre through the College of Arts and Sciences. Regrettably, I don't know anything about this program.

Hope this helps.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 12:06 pm: Edit

drjohn..
THANKS for your tidbit of information...the program within the MUSIC department is the one best suited for my daughter. Your professional opinion is appreciated, once again!

By Doctorjohn (Doctorjohn) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 12:36 pm: Edit

You're welcome.

I'm about to leave on the national unified audition tour, and just wanted to remind everyone that it's not too late to schedule auditions, particularly on the west coast. Most schools will have New York and Chicago (almost) fully booked, but I know from conversations that many have space in Seattle and Los Angeles. If you're planning on being in one of the unified cities when the tour is there, it may be worth contacting another school or two to see if they have audition space available. The dates, to remind everyone, are:

New York, January 31 and February 1 (some schools, including mine, will be there only on Sunday)

Chicago, February 2-4

Las Vegas, February 5

Seattle, February 7

Los Angeles, February 8

Here's the link to the website with the contact information for the schools on the unified tour:

http://www.otterbein.edu/dept/thr/unified.htm

Final note: Because I have lots of time in Seattle and LA, if any students who are sophomores or juniors would like to see me, to talk about programs in general and to receive some feedback on their work, I would be happy to do that. You can phone my office at the number listed in my profile and talk to our administrative assistant to make an appointment.

Thanks to all of you for the great support you're giving to each other. It can only make life better for the kids we get to share. And good luck to all on their auditions!

By Dramaqueen22 (Dramaqueen22) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 04:18 pm: Edit

I know everyone talks about all the major musical theater schools (CMU, CCM, NYU, FSU, Michigan, Penn State, etc) but as I search, there are so many smaller schools with musical theater. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about these programs...(their websites didn't provide a lot of information)

Ithaca College, NY
Wright State, OH
Syracuse (this has been mentioned before, but not much. Has anyone auditioned there?)

I had more schools to ask about, but I lost my list. I'm trying to get a well-rounded college list and I need a lot more safety schools! If anyone has any information on these or any other smaller programs (or where to get information) I would really appriciate it!

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit

Dramaqueen...My daughter and I visited Syracuse over the summer. One of the best things about the program there is that they are share a building with the equity theater there in Syracuse and they do a show together with them each year. The productions, I understand, are quite something! The Musical Theater program there is quite large which can be good for the admittance rate but it is harder to get in a mainstage show since there are more students involved. They do a lot of student directed shows and you can get cast in those though. The theater and dance facility is a good hike to the music department...and up a sizeable hill....which may lead to an impression I got that the music aspect of the program is not the strongest part. The acting part looks the strongest to me. If you want a program where good opera theater is available too, this is not the place. Any other questions, I'll try to answer!

By Cato (Cato) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 07:03 pm: Edit

The best list I've seen is at the beginning of Part 4 of this thread.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 07:18 pm: Edit

The list is actually at the beginning of Part 5.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 09:41 pm: Edit

I do not have a lot of info. to share, sorry. But the two top musical theater girls at our high school a couple years ago went onto the program at Ithaca. I also know someone who went to Wright State. I believe the Ithaca program is a good one. Sorry to not know more.
Susan

By Chrisru (Chrisru) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 10:46 pm: Edit

We visited Syracuse in the fall and were very impressed with the program. The theatre department is at the bottom of a large hill, but there are shuttles that run frequently to help the students get up and down the hill. We saw a production of Floyd Collins while we were there, and it was excellent - including the singing.

By Dramaqueen22 (Dramaqueen22) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 12:54 am: Edit

Thanks so much for the information. I'm actually attending a summer college for high school students at Syracuse this summer for Acting/Musical theater, so I know I'll be learning a lot more about that program later on. Anyway, I appreiciate the help!

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 02:20 am: Edit

Wow, I am definitely feeling the audition crunch here...I've got 5 auditions in one week that're coming up, starting with the CCM regional in L.A. Hopefully you all (and all your children) are holding up well and are confident that you have made the right decision in your choice of colleges to apply to.

Now here is something I think would be helpful and interesting: what would you all recommend to bring to auditions as a sort of "audition survival kit?" I have been bringing (besides the usual water, makeup, deodorant, etc.):

*Entertainer's Secret (a throat soother)
*Tea and honey
*Salt water for gargling

Plus, I think I'm going to get a steamer, for auditions and for general use. Obviously, I'm mainly a singer and it would be interesting to hear what all you dancers are bringing. Any thoughts?

Shauna

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 08:30 am: Edit

Hi Everyone,

I also wanted to wish you all good luck with you auditions and offer another bit of advice for anyone struggling with vocal problems.

GINGER ROOT TEA! It really works. My daughter had a job at a theme park this summer and had to sing 6 or 7 days per week and she swears by it. The best thing is to actually get the ginger root at the food store, cut it up and boil it to make a tea that you can store in the refridgerator for about a week and heat up when needed. But GNC does sell ginger tea bags.

Hope this helps!

By Lamw (Lamw) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 09:40 am: Edit

Dramaqueen22,

My son attends Syracuse for musical theater and
loves it. He was going through the audition process last year at this time and so when I read all these posts about bad weather and sore throats and crazy travel weekends it brings back all those lovely memories.And makes me glad its over.

Syracuse's theater department is housed in the
same building as Syracuse Stage which is a regional equity theater. This building is about 10 blocks off campus down a hill. Jim Clark, the director of the drama department is actually also the producing director of Syracuse Stage. So there
is some crossover. Some of the drama students are
cast in the equity productions,mostly in the ensemble, but some do get to do principle roles. In fact some of them get their equity cards because of this. Son tells me this is somewhat of a mixed blessing so soon. The travel to and from
the theater doesn't seem to bother him. He gets the bus down in the morning and either buses or walks back. His theater classes are in blocks so
that makes it more organized. He has writing
class,theory and a voice lesson on the campus proper(the music department is on campus). There is also a meeting of the entire theater department every Wed. at 5PM where they share news and someone performs and so on, and of course he has go down for any nightime or weekend rehearsals. (freshman can't be in any of the productions but they are required to tech for one, and he is actully working two)There is usually a group of them traveling back and forth at any given time.

Syracuse requires their students to live on campus for 2 years but the theater students often petition the housing department to be released from the requirement so they can start living off campus in their sophmore year. Next year he'll be living in an apartment building filled with theater majors about 3 blocks from the theater. This will also be much less expensive. But he will still have to go up to the campus for some of his clases.

We were told that last year 700 kids auditioned for Syracuse (both acting and MT).
They accept 60 and hope to wind up with 30.
This group is split in half for most classes.
They have what they call Core on Mon,Wed and
Fri mornings for 3 hours. He had speech,acting
and stage combat last semester during this time.
He also took ballet, theater crafts,introduction to theater, writing, music theory and a voice lesson. This semester in addition to those subjects he is getting musical theater performance
and another singing class in addition to his private lesson. In his sophmore year he has to take piano as well. Looking ahead it seems like there is one dance class every semester although
there may be an opportunity to take dance as one of the electives. Don't know yet, we'll have to see.

My son is very pleased with the quality of his classes and with the faculty members that he's had the oportunity to work with so far. He's very happy there.

Good luck with your summer program. My son went to
CMU's summer program and learned a lot, met some great people, and had a wondeful time.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 10:01 am: Edit

Lamw,

Syracuse does have a good theatre department. I have a friend who went there and who is now touring in Rent. The equity card possibility is a definite issue and one that they've been struggling with for a while. The problem is, that though it sounds great to get your card so early, it precludes you from participating in any non-equity productions when you graduate. These are the productions where most theatre majors get their professional start and most national tours are now non-eq (another contentious issue). So, it's definitely a mixed blessing.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 11:07 am: Edit

Just wanted to comment on the actor/singer/dancer issue and the importance of each. For MT, it's true that if you can't sing, you won't be cast. That is definitely the top priority for any MT production. The first thing in every audition is for the individual to sing. If they happen to make it further than that, they'll probably be asked to dance and also, depending on the role, to do something to show their acting ability, a reading perhaps. For most current Broadway musicals, and I've seen almost all of them, the actors must not only be great singers but they need to be great actors, too. There are a few shows where they need to be good dancers, but these are definitely in the minority. Shows like 42nd St. and Movin' Out (which is actually a ballet) probably employ the real dancers on Broadway at the moment. There are certainly shows which have a dancing component to them, like Chicago or TMM but those are very different from the others I mentioned.

The acting ability is a definite must, even in musicals. For example, in Rent, the cast has great voices and the acting is superb, but there is only one castmember I know of who is actually a trained dancer. This has been the case for most of the actors who have participated in this show, both on Broadway and in the various tours. This is the case with most big musical productions, like Les Mis, Phantom, Miss Saigon, B&B, AIDA, The Lion King, etc.

The other thing to keep in mind (and I know this thread is about MT ) is that a large number of stage productions are straight plays. At any given time on Broadway, approximately one third of the shows are non-musicals. Off-Broadway in the city it's a majority of the shows that are non-musicals. This is also the case with most regional productions across the country. So, it's important that kids who are interested in MT don't concentrate on the dancing and singing to the exclusion of acting training because if they do, they'll be at a definite disadvantage.

Oh, just one more comment about singers. I'm assuming that most of your kids who are singers have had some sort of vocal training. If they haven't, make sure they get it. It is so easy to ruin your voice very quickly by not employing the correct techniques and it could have longlasting effects. Proper technique and training is really necessary on an ongoing basis, even for professionals. I know of one actor who was cast in a lead role on Broadway in the fall after having been an u/s on a national tour of another show. In less than a month, he'd damaged his vocal chords to such an extent that he had to go on vocal rest. It lead to the producers of the show buying out his contract and he's now unemployed. Which is a real shame I think.

To everyone who's auditioning in the next week or so, break a leg!

Oh and Soozie, I'm sorry but I don't know the answer to the Tisch dance audition question. It might be worthwhile calling the audition hotline and having one of the people in the office answer that for you. Oh and I see you mentioned in one post that you grew up in south Jersey. So did my mom!

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 12:25 pm: Edit

Shauna,
Great, great luck on your auditions this week! Thanks so much for the tips to others. Another one is a product called "Throat Power" made by (I think) Vitastic. I don't know where you can find it by you, but out in CA it's available in Sprouts. Try health food stores. It's excellent.

Dancers might want to bring an ankle brace (the pullon stretch kind) in case an ankle gets out of whack. Some dancers like a theraband to help warmup on their own. Have a second pair of dance shoes, just in case. Ballet flats and jazz slipons can always substitute for each other, though.

Has anyone considered bringing an extra tape (if you're doing a tape as well as cd)--or am I being paranoid?

By Dramaqueen22 (Dramaqueen22) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 01:43 pm: Edit

I thought of the other school I wanted to know more about. It was Ball State. If anyone knows anything about their musisical theater program, I am looking for any information! I read their entire website and it seems the same as others. Its just so hard to get a real feel for the school from the website. Anyway, thanks!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 03:04 pm: Edit

Emily P, yes, when the time comes for my younger daughter, I would definitely look into it all further.

Where did your mom grow up? I grew up in Cherry Hill, which is a suburb of Philadelphia. I currently live in Vermont, however.
Susan

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Soozievt,

She grew up in Medford.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 04:13 pm: Edit

Emily...that is where my brother lives!
Soozie

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Soozie,

Small world! She lived in Birchwood Lakes, to be exact.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 04:33 pm: Edit

dramaqueen...The only information I have about Ball State is the experience of an acquaintance of my daughter. This girl is an excellent singer and actress with little dance training. She is a freshman at Ball State this year. She has gotten quite a bit of stage experience this year at Ball State. Not lead roles, but she's been cast in ensembles and had small character roles. Since she's a freshman, this is great. However, I also know that she recently auditioned at CCM as a transfer. So, however happy she is at Ball State, she still is trying to break into an elite program. She auditioned at CCM a year ago and didn't make it. Maybe she'll have better luck this year! Don't know that this story is much help, but it's all I have!

By Dramaqueen22 (Dramaqueen22) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 05:31 pm: Edit

Thanks for the information, Musicalthtrmom. I really just wanted to know if people feel they get just as good as an education and experience at less known programs as they do at the better known ones. Stories like that are really the best indication as to how people feel about them. Obviously, I would love to get into a more established program. I am just trying to explore options that might be a little less of a risk, in case I don't get into my first choices. Anyway, thanks again!

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 08:07 pm: Edit

HELP!
I'm ready to have a nervous breakdown. I finally got enough of my financial documents to do my and my D's income tax forms. I got mine done yesterday and did my D's this afternoon. I filed the FAFSA electronically about 1 1/2 hours ago. I made the mistake of not applying for a PIN ahead of time, therefore I couldn't sign the form electronically. I'll be mailing a signature page tonight. I'm not sure whether or not I've met a Jan 31 application date because of the missing signature. I decided to check each school's website to make sure I had filed or would remember to file all of the correct documents. I discovered that the Boston Conservatory has a Feb. 1 deadline. They have their own financial aid form that has to be filled out. I can't find one anywhere on their website. I know they didn't send us one. I'm unsure whether or not that form has to be in by tomorrow or not. Do any of you happen to know? Do any of you have any idea where to find their application? Any help would be appreciated.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 08:14 pm: Edit

Mtmommy--

Oh, yes, bring an extra CD/tape! Mine got misplaced the day after I had it made, but luckily I had a backup. (It mysteriously reappeared along with my Josh Groban CD two days ago. Go figure.) Thank you for your kind words. Luckily my auditions don't start until next week, so hopefully this nagging cold/phlegm will be better by then.

Emily--

Coincidentally, I'm pretty sure I've spoken with a friend of the castmember on Broadway you were talking about...they bought out his contract just a few days before Christmas, when he was set to go on vacation. It seems rather coldhearted, from what I heard of the situation.

As far as the acting ability thing goes, were you talking about the tour or the Broadway cast of Rent? If it was the tour, I can also vouch for the fact that the majority of them are AMAZING actors. The man playing Collins was simply astonishing...easily one of the best performances I have ever seen on stage, both vocally and acting-wise. Mimi was also a fantastic actress. Interestingly enough, Roger has never had any voice training and still has the vocal stamina to sing two shows a day and play a concert with his band afterward.

Cbs57--

Thanks for the tip about the tea! I'll definitely check it out!

Shauna

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 08:23 pm: Edit

Shauna,

Yes, apparently it is true that they bought out his contract a few days before Christmas. From what I understand, it was necessary in order for them to sign his replacement to a longer contract. He originally was only supposed to be there temporarily, had other offers to consider so they needed to lock him in to keep him. And yes, it is kind of coldhearted but that's show biz. And he may have been set to go on vacation, but he also had been travelling in Europe for a good portion of the time he was on vocal rest.

I was specifically referring to the Broadway cast but, like I said, it's run true for all of the North American tours as well. (I've seen them all ;)) Yes, I know about Constantine and his vocal stamina. Much like Adam Pascal and never having had any voice training.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 09:04 pm: Edit

Emily--

I'm glad you used first names; I didn't want to seem like I was name-dropping or something. Not that I am really in a position to be dropping names, but still. :-)

My impression was that the performer in question had had quite a bit of vocal training, and still wrecked his voice. Interesting to compare to Constantine...don't get me wrong, Constantine is one of the sweetest cast members I've ever met (well, entire touring cast is just plain sweet, not to mention gorgeous) but I'm definitely a fan of vocal technique. For his sake, I hope it doesn't catch up with him.

But Marcus (Collins)...just amazing, don't you think? I was just floored. Both times I saw the cast I had rush seats...those were my first live Rent experiences despite having the CD memorized backwards and forwards...there are no words. I sobbed throughout almost the entire show the first time I saw it because it was just so beautiful, and it reaffirmed to me that MT was something I have to be a part of.

Shauna

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 12:40 am: Edit

Mtmommy,
In order to find the link about the "advanced dance audition" on the Tisch/Drama
website, you actually have to register for an audition. By that I mean, when my daughter signed up for her Tisch School of Drama audition, she had to go through many steps, one that led to the option to audition for Tisch School of Drama with a dance compononent (not advanced) or one with the Advanced Dance component. It seemed to me a way the auditioner could show them their level of dance, and therefore maybe improve their Cap 21 chances... Obviously, someone only interested in one of the acting studios would not choose this audition option. Also, you won't run into this info until you go through the steps to actually "sign up" for the audition. Hope this helps..
-Mtheatremom

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 01:18 am: Edit

Thanks for the clarification Mtheatremom. That was basically the gist of what my D heard from friends who go there.
Susan

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 11:27 am: Edit

Thanks, Mtheatremom! Yes, that helps a lot and sounds fantastic.

Dancersmom, I'm so sorry, I don't have an answer for you. I remember going through that nightmare of FAFSA for my son.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Mtmommy

I found a financial aid application in a unified audition application packet from the 2003 school year last night. I filled it out and my husband attempted to fax it last night from home. The attempt wasn't succesful, so he went to Office Depot today to have them fax it. They couldn't get it to go through either, so we're assuming the machine at TBC is out of paper and its memory is full. I'm beginning to suspect that TBC no longer requires their own financial aid application since I can't find it anywhere. It was not in this year's unified application materials. I'll be calling them in the morning. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping that I met their deadline for submitting the FAFSA. Hopefully, I haven't screwed up.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 10:27 pm: Edit

Dancersmom,

I'll be crossing my fingers for you! Good luck and keep us posted!

By Momkallie (Momkallie) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 01:10 am: Edit

Hi all!

I haven't posted here for some months and have enjoyed reading all the updates!

I haven't been around as we're celebrating some fabulous news..our daughter has been accepted to the MT program at Oklahoma City University. I can't tell you how excited she is and we all are!

In regards to the above question about ACT scores and scholarships, you simply must check out OCU. My daughter not only received a sizeable academic scholarship, but also a music scholarship. We will be paying much less than we expected for college! We were told about some wonderful scholarships that many prospective students don't even know about (one..our daughter received!).

In regards to schools with excellent dance programs, you must put OCU near the top of the list. Dance Magazine named it one of the top 5 theater dance schools and there are currently 5 OCU performers in the Broadway cast of 42nd Street. The MT dept uses the dance school to train their dancers and, from the audition we saw, they do not pull any punches when it comes to MT majors! They were given a very demanding combo (both jazz and tap), taught by the dance school dance instructors..not a student (we're not a fan of having students teach kids combos at auditions). At OCU, you can "level" and move up the dance class roster just like a student who is studying dance full time.

I found it very odd when someone above mentioned that an NYU audition wanted the student to bring their own boombox and CD/tape. Is that right? I find that highly unprofessional. Since singing is a major part of MT, they should have an accompanist play for your audition. That's the professional way to do things. I would question any program that wants you to sing to a CD.

In regards to music theory being tested at auditions, OCU does that as well. At OCU, theory is very imprortant as you graduate with a minor in music theory along with your BM in MT. That was a very attractive addition to their program as we found many MT programs that put theory training second to everything else. We were told of a story that one graduate (Kelli O'Hara from "Sweet Smell of Success") who was given a selection of a song during an audition and, out of four other girls, she was the only one with enough skill to perform the selection due to her extensive training.

OK..I've bored you folks enough. We're taking a trip back to OCU this coming week (Feb 9th) for their big open house, Spotlight Day. It will be very exciting as they have started construction on their new $30 million dollar music school. If anyone is intersted in OCU, you might want to visit on that day (I believe their web site is www.youatocu.com). Look for us!

Take care all and best wishes!

By Miamimtparent (Miamimtparent) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 02:30 am: Edit

MT Mom,
I periodically read this website. Though I've never commented before, I thought I could now answer your question about the University of Miami in Florida.

Our son is now a freshman in their Bachelor of Music Musical Theater program, loves it, and is growing by leaps and bounds. How very right you are, Doctor John, to say that Dr Alt is an excellent department head and voice instructor. U Miami has superb vocal training, excellent acting, and decent dance training in a personalized program and beautiful friendly setting. We couldn't be happier with his choice and his experience.

Last year our son applied to 9 schools, and was accepted to 8. His final choice was between NYU (Steinhardt), Oberlin Conservatory and U Miami. He chose Miami because it had more dance, he was really impressed with the acting and music program, and really liked the school setting. The U Miami School of Music just got a $33 million endowment which can only help to increase the talent and instruction. Although it has not been talked about on this website, we think U Miami is a hidden gem.

FYI, you can enter into the musical theater program at U Miami through either the School of Music (BM) or the Theatre Program (BFA). Regardless of how one enters the musical theatre program, be prepared for a very rigorous and rewarding learning experience.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 07:02 am: Edit

Momkallie,

I know I speak for all of us when I send a heartfelt congratulations to you and your daughter. You must be so proud, happy and, of course, relieved! I have heard nothing but fabulous things about OCU. My daughter has a good friend who is a junior in the dance program there and he loves it! (They danced at the same ballet studio here in Philadelphia and he partnered her in a few productions, and he is a wonderful dancer and strong, caring partner.)

Was your daughter able to cancel any other auditions she still had scheduled or had she finished them? If you wouldn't mind telling us, where else did she apply and has she heard back from any of the other schools yet? We're off to Penn State this weekend. We'll actually go on Thursday evening so she can observe and take class on Friday. Her audition is Saturday. Of course, there is a storm predicted. Aaaargh!

I tried to interest my daughter in OCU, but she couldn't see herself living in Oklahoma City for 4 years. I guess at this age it is sometimes hard to see the "bigger picture".....

Anyway, congrats again! Relax and enjoy the rest of her senior year. Work well done!

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 08:19 am: Edit

momkallie...CONGRATS to you and your daughter. You must be so relieved! As the mom of a junior, I"m ALREADY feeling the stress of the upcoming audition process! Would you be so kind as to tell us a bit about your daughter and her experience and what, in your opinion, may have been her strength that got her accepted at OCU? It's always nice to know what caliber of student/performer goes to the schools that interest you. It helps with the reality check! THANKS! Keep on celebrating!

By Peggy (Peggy) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 08:26 am: Edit

My next child is going to be a brain surgeon! It's got to be easier!

OK, we have that out of our system. As I sit here, Stephanie and Husband are in Chicago, hoping to audition with CCM. You might remember that she had an audition scheduled with CCM last month, but she got sick. They told me they would put her on the waiting list for the Chicago regional audition, and the March audition in Cincinnati. I called last Thursday to see how the waiting list was going and found out that she wasn't on it! I talked to them again on Friday, and, according to the gal I talked to (I believe a secretary), "her boss" told her to tell Stephanie to go ahead and go to Chicago and they would see if they could fit her in. "Her boss" turned out to be the head of the Opera, Musical Theater, Drama and Arts Department, so I guess he knows what he's talking about! I also talked to Stephanie's voice teacher/coach and her acting coach and they both said the same thing -- go, even without an audition time.

Now, my husband is an Engineer, and I have a degree in Education. We are used to nice orderly things. The idea of driving to Chicago without a confirmed time blew both our minds. But he's there, hoping this all works out. And I'm at home, pacing the floor. Fun, fun, fun.

And to make life even more interesting, he and Steph will be back on Wednesday for Otterbein audition. At least this time he'll know where he's going and what time to be there.

On a side note, thanks to you all, we knew to take a boombox with us.

Peg

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 09:17 am: Edit

Momkallie,

Just a comment about bringing your own cd and boombox to college auditions. Many schools do this and the reason is that they want students to be in control, as much as possible, of their performance at the audition. Anyone who has auditioned with an accompanist knows that they are highly unreliable. Some are excellent and some are not. This way, the students know exactly what is prepared on their cd or tape, they can rehearse to THAT music and not wonder if their accompanist is going to play at the proper tempo, etc. Too many times I've seen auditions where the accompanist gets the music two minutes before the audition starts and screws it up. This is the reason. It has nothing to do with being unprofessional, it's the generous and right thing to do for nervous auditionees. If you'd question any school who requires you to sing to a cd, you'd be questioning some of the best schools in the country!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 10:27 am: Edit

Momkalie, mucho congrats on that wonderful news at OCU for your daughter! That must feel so great for her and you too. It sounds like a terrific program. I mentioned it to my D (who is fifteen) and she was like, Oklahoma????? We live in Vermont, lol. Also she has NYC on the brain. I am grateful to all of you guys w/ older kids who are going through the process and sharing these experiences, plus to students on here. It is invaluable inside information!!!

Peggy, I hear ya on going all the way there without a firm appointment. I would feel like you (maybe cause I am in education like you???) but it sounds like it should work out. I have fingers crossed on all her auditions.

Our soph daughter "conferenced" with us last night over her ongoing strong strong desire to graduate high school early (has done a bunch of accelerating over the years, does have the credits, etc). We are going to allow the next step of this process though I am not anxious to do it but she is persistant in her desire and drive. So, while I had no idea I would even be in this process yet, we may be on the road to applying next fall for musical theater. I have not begun any of this yet and we would have all those visits to make, but I have been immersed in the process all year with my senior as it is! So, I am going to read even more closely this thread!
Susan

By Peggy (Peggy) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 11:06 am: Edit

Soozievt -- I have to tell you. That was the same reaction that *my* daughter had when I first suggested Oklahoma. OklaHOMA???? Said with her nose wrinkled. To be honest, we had the same problem with U of Mich. Lots of the kids from our high school go to U of M. It's 50 miles down the road. In fact, her Dad worked in Ann Arbor for a while. Musical Theater is exciting and different, and obviously you have to go to a college that is exciting and different. Not U of M! There is nothing exciting and different in Michigan (said in disgust).

She has since decided that OCU is one of her top choices, and maybe U of M *does* have a good MT program. Jackson, Michigan, however, is still in the middle nowhere and the most boring place in the world.

As for her CCM audition, she is dancing as we speak! Just got a call from Husband (thank Heavens for cell phones!). There was a cancellation today, and she will get to audition. Steve didn't know the time, but to be honest, at this point it doesn't matter. CCM has been a dream of hers for several years. And she's getting to audition.

Peg

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 11:47 am: Edit

Peggy, yay for your daughter!!!

I have not even began the college search process with this child cause as I said she is in tenth grade but I think it is going to proceed in full swing if we go along with the graduating in three years thing. I told her in this "conference" that she is going at the process of thinking of colleges way different than her seventeen year old sister who first researched schools, then narrowed them down according to her criteria/preferences. This child has wanted NYU from a very young age (many influences from having older theater peers), plus wanting NYC. I told her she has to look into this with an open mind given the selectivity issue in the first place, plus just really researching the best programs for what she will want. She says she is going to do that. She recently visited with a theater friend whose older sister is a freshman at CCM (my daughter also knows her from theater camp) who said her sister likes it but not Cincinnatti and I am like, but this girl grew up in Manhatten so it is all relative. My D grew up in VT so Cinci could end up exciting, ya never know! When I mention UMich, she says, Michigan???? And I am like, it is supposed to be a very fun college town. She is well aware that these are some of the top musical theater programs and alas, they mostly are NOT in NYC (other than Tisch). Then she just saw a friend who is a freshman at Tisch and another who just got in....and the freshman is ooohing and ahhhing about how it is like being on your own in NYC (music to my D's ears), and not really like a campus life there. I go on to tell my daughter how fun campus life can be in college but mom does not know much, right? Anyway, I am sure she will look into all these schools and the hard part is to start this late as we have done no visits yet. With my seventeen year old, we visited all her schools in junior year, and returned to top choices in fall of senior year. This child's schools involves flights! Plus it is already Feb. We should visit them and of course will have to return for the auditions next year. Did you visit these first before the application process? My D reminds me that she has friends at each of the schools she could visit, which is a good thing too. It just is different to enter the search process with a school in one's mind as a strong first choice, whereas my other daughter developed first choices after much research and comparison. I just ordered some college guidebooks specific to performing arts. Of course, in this selection process, we are talking of already knowing the names of the relevant schools for musical theater whereas we were starting from a MUCH larger initial list with our other daughter before narrowing it down. This process begins already with a narrower list. The criteria of location cannot be weighed as heavily when there are fewer musical theater programs out there compared to older daughter who could say "east coast" and still have tons of schools to consider.

Let us know what your D thinks of her audition!

Susan

By Momkallie (Momkallie) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Hi all!

Thanks for your kind words! WE are all excited about OCU for our daughter and so is she.

I can understand the several students here who have expressed the thought of "me..living in Oklahoma? Are you crazy?". However, we're from Dallas, and you would think that being near OK would have made it easier. But our daughter was just as skeptial..until she came to the school! I think it's important to remind kids that it doesn't matter where the school is located..it's the final results that matter. I mean, Kristen Chenoweth came from OCU and she hasn't done badly!! I was also hesitant about having our daughter go to NY and study. I think there is too much temptation when you are actually there. I know of several NYU students who have done poorly in their MT program because they are so focused on auditioning and spending their time waiting in audition lines instead of rehearsing or developing their craft. I heard of one Tisch student who was offered an Equity card for doing a children's theater tour. He was so excited to be offerded his card that he jumped at the chance. 5 months later the tour was over and he hasn't worked for three years now. I'd rather have my daughter at a school where you need to continually practice and build your skills without the feeeling of "wel..I'll just go to this audition and see what happens".

Also, in regards to brining the boombox and CD to an audition, I'm sorry but I have to disagree. These schools claim that they are preparing you for the real world. At what Equity audition will you bring your own taped music and boombox to audition? In MT, singing with the piano and an accompanist is a way of life and a fact of life. Sure, there are some bad accompanists out there but if your child has one in a school audition: 1) that probably tells you something about the quality of the school and/or 2) the school knows when an accompanist is playing badly and knows it is not the student's fault. I've seen many schools that state (like OCU) that taped accompaniment is not allowed. I think that is best.

One thing that I strongly suggest to all is if your child has not applied to a school that they are interested in..they should do so ASAP. Not only do most MT programs have a limited number of audition slots, but the longer you wait, the less scholarship money is available. My daughter applied to OCU in November and received a sizeable scholarship because she applied early. We were told by OCU admissions that many students wait till February or March, and by that time, a sizeable amount of scholarship money is gone and your child might not receive all that they are entitled to.

Finally (sorry..I'm in a rush and I apoligize for not spell checking this!), we looked at Florida State and University of Oklahoma. We were impressed with Florida State but found it too much of a party school and they didn't seem to focus too much on music theory. OU is..sorry to say...rather a joke. Nice facilities but we were very unimpressed with the knowledge and ability of several professors. They loved to tell us they only accept "10" students each year, but we met about 22 freshmen MT students on our vist..so you go figure that out!

Best of luck to you all!!

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 03:28 pm: Edit

With all due respect, Momkallie, the way in which the schools are preparing us for the real world is in the training we receive there, and not in how they handle our auditions. Yes, Eq auditions would have an accompanist but we're not talking about Eq auditions here, are we? It's a totally different experience (I've done both ). At my school, the artistic review was weighted 50% of my admissions decision. At other schools, it's even greater. So, the kids who are auditioning for MT programs need everything to go as smoothly as possible and to be in total control of their music and audition is a courtesy that many of the top schools think is important. I agree with them. This is a one time decision that may not only affect the applicant's next four years, but also their entire future in the arts. This is not a one time Eq audition which you can say oh well, that didn't work out, on to the next one. I've seen way too many accompanists who are unable to play the chosen numbers (and some MT songs are incredibly difficult to play well, quickly. Anything Sondheim or JRB comes to mind.) We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 03:42 pm: Edit

I was under the impression that NYU frowns upon kids auditioning outside of school during the school year. I could be wrong.
Susan

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 03:48 pm: Edit

Momkallie,
Congratulations on your D's acceptance to OCU. I'm sure you are relieved and pleased to have your D accepted to a program you all like. Bravo!

Today was a good day at my house. I called Boston and found out that I had completed their financial aid and scholarship application when I did my D's unified application online. They did say that they had been getting complaints for months about their website. I'm apparently okay with them on the FAFSA also. All the other schools my D is auditioning for have a Feb. 15 deadline.

The best news is that my D got another acceptance letter in the mail today. Penn State has offered her a spot. Yea! She got in despite having swollen vocal cords at her audition. It's nice to know that she'll have at least 2 schools to choose from.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 04:09 pm: Edit

You're right, Soozie. They do frown on it. Heavily. I don't know of many kids who break this 'rule'. There certainly aren't lots of kids jeopardizing their schooling by doing it, as some have stated. Sure, there are distractions when you go to school in Manhattan but lots of kids are mature enough to handle those distractions and still do well at school. The majority, I'd say. The benefits of being in the theatre capital of the world for the college years certainly outweigh the negatives for most of us here.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 04:11 pm: Edit

Dancersmom...and other moms of auditioners...just wondering if you are cancelling auditions as you find out about acceptances...or are you continuing the process since not all scholarship/financial aid information is sent with acceptances?
What great news for you Dancersmom...congrats to your daughter. Choices! That's great! With a field so selective, even ONE acceptance is great...more than one...even BETTER!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 04:25 pm: Edit

Dancersmom, wow, your daughter is on a roll! Great for her! I hope it continues. How relieved you guys can be that she is in some good places already! congratulations! Does she even know yet? What a happy day.....
hoping to hear more good news from this talented bunch of kids/parents.
Susan
(gotta go pick my aspiring one up from rehearsal!)

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 04:46 pm: Edit

Musicalthtrmom,

I'd suggest, unless it's a true financial hardship, to finish out all scheduled auditions. In never hurts to garner as many acceptances as possible, if for no other reason than as a hedge against the future. It's not entirely unknown for students to change schools, either by choice or by necessity, and to have been seen and accepted elsewhere enhances the chances of making a change. Also, there just might be a better offer ahead. But, as with most things, it never hurts to keep as many options open as possible.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 05:58 pm: Edit

Musicalthtrmom,
My D will be finishing all of her auditions. She only has 2 more to go, CCM and the Boston Conservatory, but we would have her finish all of her auditions regardless of how many were remaining. I agree with Mtdad. We want her to have as many options as possible. When audition season is over and we know which schools have accepted her, we plan to make return visits. At some of the schools my D has auditioned for we were not able to sit in on any classes or see a production. We want to know as much as possible about each school before she chooses.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 06:27 pm: Edit

Before I start, congrats to Dancersmom and Momkallie!!!

OK...I have to give MAJOR props to OCU right now. Because of extenuating circumstances (father's major medical problems and grandmother's deteriorating health), OCU is letting me audition when I will be in the area visiting them both. This school is looking better and better...and to think I almost didn't apply!

Shauna

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 07:30 pm: Edit

Settle an argument please if you can. Up here in snowy Minnesota 16" and still snowing! My son comes home from school today (no rehearsal) and tells me his friend, a senior girl who had the lead in the school musical this year just got into NYU voice major. I asked if she was excited. He said he guessed so but she is stuck in NY because of the snow. I asked when she auditioned. He told me this weekend and that they told her right away she was in. Do they do that with NYU voice majors? I told him I didn’t think so, that it wasn’t like Star Search. So if someone could settle this for me – better if I win one – you know how 16 yr olds can be.

About our spring break trip. We convinced son that 3 states and 7 schools in 10 days was enough. New York and Boston will have to wait! I will keep you informed of what we find.

Jenifer

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 08:07 pm: Edit

Cluelessmc2,

I'm a Tisch student and I've never heard of anyone at NYU being told they've "gotten in" at their audition. It just doesn't happen that way. Also, it was a clear day here today so there's no way she was stuck in the snow in NYC.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 09:59 pm: Edit

Is there a full moon tonight or do good things happen in three's?

I'm so happy to join Momkallie and Dancersmom in reporting very exciting news. My daughter heard today that she's been accepted to Michigan as a BFA candidate in Musical Theatre!! I'm surprised that you all didn't hear her scream across the country. We had been told that we would hear 4-5 weeks after she auditioned (Jan 16) so this came as an early surprise. We were also told that all responses (positive or negative) would come from the School of Music in a regular business size envelope to be followed a few days later by a large envelope from the UM Admissions office if you were accepted. Well, the big envelope is what arrived today (maybe the small one from the Music School will follow?) and happiness reigns under our roof. Thanks to everyone for your support, information sharing, etc. May you all get the same good news that your children are dreaming of.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 10:23 pm: Edit

Cluelessmc2

Just an addition to the discussion about "instant" acceptance at NYU as a voice major. I'm assuming your son's friend auditioned at Steinhardt as that is where the vocal performance program is based. I can only report my daughter's experience there was a little different from any other program at which she has auditioned so far. She auditioned for MT on Nov 2 at one of the 2 open audition days (the other was Nov 16). Both classical voice candidates and MT's auditioned that day. Four days after her audition, she received an email from the Director of the Program saying that "the faculty was most impressed" with her work. He invited our family to come back to NYU to meet with him and discuss her opportunities at NYU. He was wonderful to us and for the second time, they treated us to the performance that was taking place while we were there (the first was the MT dept production of A New Brain on the day she auditioned and the second was a Chamber Opera performance - both quite wonderful, especially the MT show.) At the end of our meeting, while he didn't formally offer her admission, he did say that he thought she "was a young lady who will have lots of choices and we just hope she will seriously consider NYU." They don't issue acceptances until April I believe. He has stayed in touch, so we would be very surprised if she were not accepted. But accepted on the spot? No. I guess it could happen but even though Steinhardt expresses strong interest, you still have to be accepted academically by NYU. Michigan has the same requirement.

By the way, I should also report that my daughter did not get in to CCM. As I reported above, our audition experience there convinced us that it would not have been the right place for her and it's clear that they agreed. She got her rejection letter a week after the audition. Quick and to the point. I guess you could call it a merciful beheading. I'll repeat that I'm sure the caliber of the training there is exceptional, it just didn't seem the right fit for her so no tears were shed. I will tell you that her confidence was a bit shaken, but her acceptance at Michigan today has taken care of that issue. Wahoo!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 10:39 pm: Edit

Theatermom, CONGRATS to your daughter!!!!!!! How exciting! Is she going to go to Michigan then? I say all this news of positive results is great on here and I hope it keeps coming for all the others. I have a gut feeling the participants on here (or the MT kids of parents on here) represent perhaps a self selected group of talented theater kids. Very impressive results you guys. Hope it keeps up. And I hope in the future I can share the same.

Applause to your kids!
Susan

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 10:50 pm: Edit

Thanks so much Susan!

My daughter will complete her audition at PSU this weekend. I really like that program as well and think MtDad's advice makes sense. We will probably cancel our last audition at Boston Conservatory because I know she would choose UM over BC. I want her to wait and see what her final choices are (also want to see if she is offered any merit scholarship money) but my gut feeling is that she will choose Michigan. It is one of the very top schools and it seemed like a really good fit for her. Time will tell.

Thanks again!

By Sarahsmom (Sarahsmom) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 12:09 am: Edit

We too have been doing the audition circuit. My daughter has decided to pursue an MT BFA in programs that she can have more access to liberal arts or non-performance area training so she excluded the conservatory programs from her list. So far she has auditioned at Emerson, Hartt, Syracuse, Ithaca, and has Marymt. Man., NYU-Steinhardt, and Elon still to come. She applied early action to Emerson and Hartt, and was deferred from Emerson, and admitted with an excellent scholarship to Hartt. Having an admission under her belt has helped her greatly as she moved to the next round of auditions. Currently we are traveling to NYC every weekend for an audition for about 4 consecutive weeks. Overall, all the auditions are very busy, with 25-40 kids auditioning in each session. My daughter has met other kids that she knows from CMU and CCY precollege programs in the auditions, and the kids all connect with eachother on an empathic basis. Ithaca seems like an excellent program, with a very high level of balanced training. The audition was unique in that it did not have a dance component ("..we will teach you what you need to know..."), although it did have a group movement/vocal warm-up - which my daughter found to be a great way to start. They seemed to try to run a level playing field, and make the kids feel comfortable, but it was a very rapid audition. Songs (16 bars ballad/32 bars uptempo) and interview with 2 adjudicators, and monologues (1 serious/1 comedic - 60 secs each) and interview with two other interviewers. Very efficient, kind of like an assembly line, but as nice as can be in that kind of environment. My D. felt rushed in her interview and felt that she stumbled over a question or two in the interview, and the pianist forgot to play a repeat robbing her of her "great finish". None the less, she left with a very good feel. At the Syracuse audition they stressed the warmth of the dept - "ok to make mistakes..not run by intimidation..." The Syracuse auditions led by a brief dance audition, followed by songs/monologue by only one adjudicator. My dtr felt the dance audition was too short and wished to have more time with the material. She left feeling that she did not do her best in dance, although she was comfortable with the voice/drama part. We spoke with the Drama Dept a few days later, and the Chair strongly encouraged her to submit a video audition to get another look. It was an effort to put together, but my D. likes the Syr. program and wanted to 'put her best foot forward'. After several auditions, she feels she is getting far more proficient at this thing, although she really looks forward to it all ending and seeing where the chips fall.

Certainly there are many lessons to learn to successfully approach college auditions. Books,pamphlets on audition tips and precollege programs, like CMU, give great info. However we are learning many little things on how to get thru this.
1. Stability in routine before auditions is helpful - sleep, good food, building in extra time for transit and unexpected things (like blizzards!)
2. Cutting a high quality CD in the studio was an investment worth making. My D. cut several selections along with seperate accompanyment tracks, and she has wound up using them in several auditions, and giving the CD after her audition a couple of times. I originally thought she would use it only for practice, but it has gotten very good use, and we would encourage it.
3. If you can get your materials together early it is good to get some early action auditions done, or to schedule some "early" regular decision auditions. Some people like to start with schools that are lower on their wish list to serve as practice auditions. She has auditioned extensively in the community before, but, this - more than anything else, helped my D. get her college audition legs together. Getting accepted at a good place also helped lower her anxiety level and boost her confidence in subsequent auditions.
4. Overall, we have found that some schools can be very human and approachable despite this horrible level of competition. My D. has had many discussions with the admission committee at her top choice school, and while it has appeared somewhat disorganized at times they have been directing her on materials to send to move her status from deferred to admitted. Also, some departments (eg, Syracuse) has been very encouraging about resubmitting tapes or returning for second looks, and they have been very warm about feedback. It seems that if the program is a high choice, then followups with programs can be very informative and helpful.
5. We parents play an important role in this process, and each one of us has to figure out the best way to support our kids through it. For me and my D., it seems best to leave the artistic decisions to her and her coaches/teachers, and to focus on figuring out the logistics of travel, etc, and setting stablizing and comfortable plans to reduce stress. Also, I try to give her space to prepare and relax, and limit my statements to supportive ones rather than instructive ones. Mainly I want her to know that no matter the outcome I am proud of her for having the fortitude to go thru this, and of her talent, drive and determination. This role seems to work best for us. Each family needs to figure out the best relationship for themselves, and I think when we do then we can play an important role in minimizing their anxiety and helping them do their best.

Good luck to all of us thru this process. Although this is horribly competitive, I would like to believe that there are many good programs out there, and that the best programs are a matter of fit not of name. While many kids (and their parents) hope for a marquis program, talented and determined students can learn and thrive whereever they go.

By Mamadee (Mamadee) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 09:33 am: Edit

Wow, this board is amazingingly helpful. I have enjoyed the many hours of reading! Anyway, I am new here and just learning about MT. My daughter is a HS jr and was always interested in acting and singing, but has trained as a serious ballet dancer. She is unsure what she wants to pursue in college. She has a good role in her school musical this year and seems to be well suited to MT. I would like some advice on what she should do this summer. She was accepted to a prestigious ballet program (they have a 10% acceptance rate.) We are also considering a MT program, specifically at either UArts or CMU. I would lean towards UArts because she is not a stellar student academically and would have a better chance of college admission there. However, she would lose her ballet level if she didn't go to the ballet program and she wants to maintain her technique. I am learning how competitive it is to be accepted into MT BFA colleges. Do you think if she went to the ballet program she would have enough time with maybe private coaching to audition for MT next year? Even if she went to a MT summer program, would she be so behind everyone who has concentrated in MT training anyway? Maybe she should just plan to be a dance major? Is it possible to change from dance to MT once you are in college? Sorry this got so long but I really appreciate your comments. Thank you.

By Peggy (Peggy) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 10:18 am: Edit

Mamadee -- Welcome! You are right, this is a wonderful place. I just wish I had found it when Stephanie was a junior. There are things I would have done differently.

As for a summer program, Steph went to the CMU Pre-College MT program last summer. She absolutely loved it. And learned an awful lot. She's told me several times that if it weren't for that program, there is no way she would even be considered for a college program. You see, our school has absolutely no drama department. They do one musical every two years. Until CMU, she had had no acting classes or learned anything about monologues. She is still weak in that area, even with an acting coach.

As for the dancing, this is what I have picked up from this group. It is by no means 100% correct, just my opinion. Very few, if any, of the MT program require an extremely high level of dancing, especially ballet. There seems to be a lot more emphasis on singing and acting. I think it was Ithica that said "we'll teach you all the dancing you need to know".

And as far as time to fit in yet another activity, it's amazing what these kids can do! We had about two months where Steph had voice lessons on Saturday morning, I picked her up and drove 50 miles to 2 hours of dance lessons. They had a 45 minute break before Nutcracker practice. I picked her up at 6:00, drove 50 miles back, then dropped her off at acting lessons. And now that the Nutcracker is over, we start the high school muscical! But you know what, these kids wouldn't have it any other way!

Peg

By Longport49 (Longport49) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 10:35 am: Edit

My daughter and I just returned from auditions 3 and 4 out of 6. So far, 2 of the auditions were pretty quick, with little interaction. She fears she may have walked out after performing without giving the reviewers a chance to talk with her. At another audition she was interviewed, and at the last she was asked to perform for another reviewer and make adjustments. Should I assume that this means anything? I know she may still be rejected even if interest was expressed, but should we assume that the quick ones are definite rejections? Thanks.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 10:53 am: Edit

Peggy...your daughter's life/routine sounds like at my house and your driving is the same, or actually less, than mine on a Saturday doing very similar stuff. Some theater kids are driven, both literally and figuratively!
Susan

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 12:24 pm: Edit

Monkey,

I do have a question about Penn State's program. Do you know if it is possible for MT students to take more than the required vocal study? I have noted that PSU has 1st semester freshmen take a group voice class that includes 15 minutes of private voice instruction per week. During the following 3 semesters students take a half hour private voice lesson. One hour private lessons begin during the junior year. My daughter has been taking a one hour private lesson for the past couple of years and added sessions with a vocal coach this summer. We hate to see her contact time with vocal instructors go down in college. This is currently my biggest hangup regarding PSU. I will be discussing this with the MT faculty, but I wonder if you might know anything about the private lesson policy.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 01:15 pm: Edit

Dancersmom,
I don't know specifics about their policy regarding private voice study. I would suspect they structure the program intentionally so you would probably get the most out of speaking with the MT faculty. My daughter also had an hour weekly private lesson prior to her first semester at Penn State, and she continues to feel challenged vocally. There are additional opportunities for vocal work; my daughter currently is in rehearsal for the School of Theatre production of Ragtime which takes a huge amount of time on top of her coursework. This is really a well-rounded program (voice,acting,dance)
and the intensity of study increases each semester. Your best bet is contacting the director, Cary Libkin, for specifics. He is really open and willing to discuss any questions with students and families.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 02:05 pm: Edit

Monkey,
Thanks for your reply. Is "Ragtime" running from Feb. 17 - 28? I've seen different dates listed in different sections of the PSU website. March 25 - April 5 is also listed. I'd like to see the production. My D's high school did the show in October. We'll have to miss it if it's in February. D is performing in her school's production of "Once On This Island" at the end of February, has a Boston Conservatory audition on the 21st, and a University of Cincinnati scholarship competition on the 23rd. Tell your D to break a leg. I'm sure she'll be great. (She may have seen my D at the Jan. 24 audition. D was wearing a black halter dress and is a brunette with shoulder-length spiral curls.)

I will be definitely be pumping Cary Libkin for more info. I will be trying to find out as much as possible about every school my D has the good fortune to be accepted to.

By Deidre (Deidre) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Hello everyone
I just found this site you guys all have some really valuble information. I was wondering if you could help me out with some questions I have or if you have any information you think would be helpfull to me.
I am just a freshman in highschol but I already know I want to major in MT. I am looking into schools and I know that the the amount of prestige the school name has in the business does have a big effect. I have heard that CCM, Boston conservatory and of course Julliard are great but I have found that Julliard doesn't have a MT program if you know of any schools with good programs as well as names I would be very greatfull for that information.I would like a school that places importance on all three areas dramatic, voice and dance as I do all three.
thankyou for your help
it is greatly appreciated
Deidre

By Monkey (Monkey) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 02:29 pm: Edit

Dancersmom,
Ragtime runs Feb. 20 - 28 so it looks like you'll miss it. That is an impressive musical for a high school to take on! You must have a diverse, multi-talented student community. At Penn State they opened auditions to the general community, though all leads except Coalhouse are played by students. They hired an equity actor for Coalhouse ( PSU grad ) since it is such a pivotal role. They also have quite a few students from the School of Music in this producton.
Your daughter sounds like her plate is full for the next month or so. Best of luck to her. If she has any other questions regarding the MT program or Penn State in general, I'm sure my daughter would be happy to talk with her.

By Noccadad (Noccadad) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 06:03 pm: Edit

D is sophmore and applying to summer camps and needing to produce a resume' Is there a standard format that is recognized within the MT programs that someone could share. ie: name, stats, education, performance experience -versus- name, stats, performance experience also for chorus roles would you just put "chorus" or something more definitive?

Also, just want to say how much we appreciate you folks and the time you have put into sharing your experiences and your childrens' passion. Just found this site recently and have found it to be very very helpful and tremendously inspiring to my d, as well as a life saver for us parents. Thanks to all!!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 09:06 pm: Edit

Monkey....that is very cool that your daughter's program is doing Ragtime and actually that Dancersmom's D's high school did it! I love that musical and saw it on Broadway with my kids shortly before it closed. The music is great, as is the story. My D has done shows with a woman who was in the Broadway cast. Her boyfriend was too. Once they came to VT to visit us for a weekend and ski and my kids were really into being able to talk with them about their experiences in Ragtime. Monkey, what role is your D playing? Also, Dancersmom, what role is your D playing in Once on This Island? I love that musical too. My daughter was in it twice. The first time she was just ten and played Little TiMoune in a college production. She was lucky to have that experience as they needed one child for it and the theater department head had seen her onstage in a theater in that city and called and offered this role to her. My D loved being among all these college theater majors and had a blast. Then she played the role of Ti Moune in a production at her theater camp. The music is just great!

Noccadad, I am not sure exactly what you might want on a resume for a summer program. But I can tell you what normally would be on a theatrical resume as my D has one that she uses for auditioning purposes. someone could correct me if what the summer program wants is any different. At the top would be your child's name and contact information. We list an agent and her number but you could give your home or cell number. Then list date of birth, height, weight, hair and eye color. Next we list theater production experience under the category: Theater. These are listed using a column format. First comes the show, then the role played (if just chorus, you could write "Ensemble"), and then the theater. We choose to add the state as well as the theaters are not all that well known. Usually one would list the most significant roles first, rather than a chronological order. We sorta combine both those approaches. The lead roles are ones at the top of her list but often we put the most recent of those in above the less recent ones and same with any that are lower on the list such as supporting roles. While not everyone does this, we like to break the theater production experiences into two headings/lists. One is simply "Theater" for adult productions. The second list we title "Youth Theater" for shows that are all under age 18, such as school productions or theater camp. If your child has any film, TV, or recordings, this can be another category after theater. After listing these experienes, next would be the category of Training. Under training, list the type of training (ie., jazz dance, voice, acting class), and where the child took it. We like to add the number of years for each of these as it is significant (cause I notice some list training where it is simply a short workshop which is not the same as 10 years or some such). The last category is Special Skills where you might add something your child can do that is related, such as 10 years of piano, or 8 years of French, or any other special skills. The typical format is one full page. As your child garners more and more credits, then you start taking off the more minor ones.

Again, I am not sure the summer thing you are applying for uses a theatrical resume or not. But what I just shared is a typical theatrical resume. It does not have academic education or stats on it. It all relates to performing arts/theater.

Susan

By Shauna (Shauna) on Tuesday, February 03, 2004 - 09:58 pm: Edit

Noccadad--

This is a link from Steven M. Alper and Sarah Knapp's website. Mr. Alper has written a great book on auditioning called Next! Auditioning for the Musical Theatre. It is a fantastic book, and this page is meant to show what a (professional) resume should look like.

Sarah Knapp's Resume

However, your child is not a professional, so you may need to divide up her roles into, like Susan said, "Theatre" and "Youth Theatre" instead of "Broadway" and "Off-Broadway." :-)

It is great to see so many new posters!

Shauna

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 12:30 am: Edit

OK, this is going to sound really dumb. For anyone who has auditioned for CMU and or NYU (without heavy dance component)

What kind of shoes do I need to bring? Will jazz shoes do?

By Txmommtpbd (Txmommtpbd) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 09:34 am: Edit

Just an update on what happened at regional auditions in Chicago:
CMU - Very nice, friendly, well-organized setup. It took about 3 hours because you didn't know when your monologues/song were scheduled. Group (approx. 25 kids) were divided in 2 for dance audition (45 mins), which was easy to moderate based on your dance experience. They had an accompaniest, so bring your sheet music if you are auditioning in LA, etc. Bring recorded music as well just in case.

CCM - Staff was very nice and well-organized. 1 dance audition (45 mins) held first. This was exiciting for those with dance experience and appeared to overwhelm those with minimal dance experience (you could see it on their faces when they came out of the room). Monologue and 2 songs performed in front of staff and a video camera. You will know when you're scheduled to perform those. Staff was nice but did not give feedback. One dad said there were 50 kids but it looked like 25-30 to me.

Emerson - Nice staff and well organized. Orientation (30 mins) followed by dance audition (45 mins) of easy to moderate difficulty. Staff did "respond" to singing and monologues. They also had an accompaniest. Approx. 25 kids in a.m. session.

Ithaca - Staff not as friendly but head of dept held orientation (30 minutes) and he was very nice. No dance call. Bring machine to play your recorded music and a tape of you singing it to give them. Again, about 25 kids in a.m. session.

All in all it was a very nice experience. They do work with you on issues of double-booked auditions. Some schools (not these 4) allow walk-ins if you don't have a scheduled time. The ratio of boys to girls seems to be about 1 to 4. Be sure to invest in appropriate dance attire. Some of the guys didn't seem to do that. Jazz shoes is all you will need.

Good luck, break a leg! TX Mom

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 01:25 pm: Edit

Soozievt,

D is playing Andrea and a storyteller in "Once On This Island". Naturally, she wanted to play TiMoune, but her director wouldn't allow it because she had to miss a couple of rehearsals for college auditions. She is choreographing TiMoune's big number along with a few other pieces. The rest of the show is being choreographed by CCM's tap teacher, Patti James.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 02:03 pm: Edit

Dancersmom, Andrea is a great role! At least she is getting to participate considering her travel for college auditions so in all, that is great. I always worried if they would let my D even do the school musicals cause she can never rehearse on Fridays cause that is the day her dance troupe rehearses at our dance studio. She has been very lucky to still get parts and leads. This year she recently was cast as Dorothy in Wizard of Oz, but they cast an 8th grader as understudy (normally do not have understudies) which allows them to have a Dorothy on Fridays and also to establish some talent base for the future. They will let the younger girl do the matinee performance. So it worked out for my daughter. Andrea is more of a soprano role and my daughter is more of a belter type. I remember in her first Once on this Isand, the one at the college when she was ten and played Little TiMoune, they had her onstage for the whole show, kinda like the girl that Ti Moune told the story to. They gave her more to sing than normally is written for Little TiMoune. Then the big TiMoune really was not that good of a dancer and so for the big TiMoune dance number you refer to, they ended up asking my daughter to dance it as well and choregraph her own part as it added to it. So, she was lucky. I think it is great that your daughter is going to do some choreography. My daughter has enjoyed that too, having just choreographed a musical revue at her school and also choreographs some numbers for her tap troupe. She says she likes that aspect. I tell her some day if she does not make it as a performer (that does not sound nice as I do have faith in her but it is a difficult field), she can always see if she wants to do this other end of it, ya know?

Susan

By Noccadad (Noccadad) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 02:23 pm: Edit

Thanks to all who responded regarding resume prep, very helpful. It is for CAP 21 Summer Program. Once again to all contributors on this thread, keep those experiences and thoughts coming as they are invaluable to the underclassmen and their parents.We really appreciate it!

By Wct (Wct) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 07:33 pm: Edit

txmommtpbd-
Hi,
I am just curious. At the Chicago auditions for CMU did you notice any MT auditionees going in to do their monologue for more than one person?

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 08:08 pm: Edit

Noccadad,

The resume needed for the CAP21 program is one just as Susan has described. They do not need her academic stats, just a headshot, the application, and tons of money! It's a great program. It's very intense, though, just so she knows. It's run at a professional level, just as all of their other programs. When does she audition? Best of luck to her. Has she found a place to stay while there?

By Txmommtpbd (Txmommtpbd) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 08:17 pm: Edit

Hi Wct -
Yes, I did. I believe that was a very good sign for those people. It certainly wasn't an option given to everyone. My understanding is that CMU places emphasis on acting, so those 6-8 people that I saw called back for someone else to see them probably have a very good chance. If you've been called back by CMU at an audition, I think you're in good standing. You made an impression!
Good luck from this point forward!
TX Mom

By Musicislife (Musicislife) on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 08:29 pm: Edit

When auditiong to different colleges for Mucial theatre and voice, how much do your grades and GPA matter? or mostly just your audition?

what are some things that they look at the most?

this has probably been asked before, but i couldn't find it just by skimming.

thank you for your time!
~MusicIsLife

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 07:44 am: Edit

Musicislife,

It varies school to school, so there's no one definitive answer. At Tisch, the admissions process is two-fold. The academic review and the artistic review are equally weighted, so you have to have the academic stats to satisfy NYU as every NYU applicant does but you also have to have an excellent audition. At other colleges, the audition is more important, and at a lot of conservatory programs, they don't consider your academics at all.

By Noccadad (Noccadad) on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 10:42 am: Edit

Emily, it's the precollege summer program, which is residential and their is no audition process. Thanks for the tip on intensity, we are also looking at CMU and the Broadway Theater Project in Tampa.
As many other parents have mentioned these kids are workhorses and are not intimidated by the workload or the inherent stress juggling both academics and the pre-professional musical theater program which has significant written and research work as well. Summer programs while tough seem to be a treat although some serious catching up on sleep occurs as well.
It is amazing and heart wrenching to watch especially during rehearsals for a show.
My D is currently a soph in high school and since 9th grade has attended regular high school in the a.m. for core academics and then New Orleans Center for Creative Arts (NOCCA) for the preprofessional program in Musical Theater that provides all her high school elective credits so most of her days are in the 14 to 16 hour range. However she has never done better academically and her growth as a performer as well as a person has been all a parent could hope for. Primarily due to the instructors at NOCCA and the cooperation at her high school. Oh yeah, and good parenting.
To all posters keep those audition experiences coming they are great! The seniors from NOCCA were at the unifieds this week in Chicago and they are truely a fine group of young people as well as performers. Can't wait to hear their perspective.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 02:26 pm: Edit

Noccadad,

Hmm, is it a different program than this one?

http://cap21.org/music.htm

My younger sister is applying and auditioning for that one. I wasn't aware that CAP21 had more than one pre-college program. And I know that with this one, she will have to find housing, probably here at NYU.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 03:08 pm: Edit

I thought that CAP21's summer program for high schoolers required auditions also. My daughter would not consider it (though wants to go to college there) cause she would never give up the summer theater program she has gone to for years. However, it sounds like a great program. Good luck to your D and also to Emily's sister.

Noccadad, glad you gave what the letters in your posting name stood for....cause I kept reading it as a performer who would "NOCCA ya socks off!"

Susan

By Noccadad (Noccadad) on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 04:17 pm: Edit

Tisch School of The Arts: Summer High School Programs, Musical Theater Performance at CAP21

I just called to make sure 212-998-1500 and they confirmed, no audition and it is residential. You guys scared me for a second but it is a very complicated arrangement of programs.

Susan, Thats excellent! we may have to use that for a T-shirt or something. Grads from Nocca include Harry Connick, Jr. Wendal Pierce (HBO's The Wire), Wynton Marsalis, and the young lady that played the AIDA supporting female lead, last summer on Broadway. Sorry don't know her name or the characters. My wife and daughter saw it while they were there, I was at home

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 04:24 pm: Edit

Ah, okay, Noccadad. It's a Tisch program your daughter's interested in, not the CAP21 summer program. There's a big difference there! The Tisch program is more like the various other theatre programs and arts camps across the country. There's some training involved but also outside activities, seeing a couple of shows, site-seeing, and no final performance. The CAP21 program is quite different and at a more professional level of performance. It's very selective, and I believe they take only 16 students per year. Good luck to her!

By Gadad (Gadad) on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 06:19 pm: Edit

Folks - I was poking around the Tulane website recently and found that it offers a BFA in Musical Theatre. The course requirements aren't as intense as the schools most prominently mentioned in this thread, but that makes it the one Top 50, moderately-sized university at which one could conceivably get a MT degree and have a good number of elective hours with which to customize the experience. Does anyone know about MT at Tulane? It's in the Music Dept. - any info on Music in general there?

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 09:09 pm: Edit

Hi Everyone,

Just thought I'd update you with a decision my daughter made. I mentioned she was scheduled for her audition at PSU this weekend but heard on Monday that she had been accepted into Michigan. I thought she'd go ahead and do the Penn State audition anyway and see what happened. Well, she came to us on Tuesday evening and asked to cancel that audition as well as her one other remaining audition at Boston Conservatory on Feb 22. I had read what MtDad posted about completing the scheduled auditions to see what all the results were (and also perhaps to have an additional acceptance as a hedge against a future desire to transfer programs) and I have to say that I thought that was good advice. But when my daughter came to me, I had to agree that enough was enough. She has a big a capella concert this weekend at her school (several neighboring high schools and two colleges send groups to this annual event which is always sold out) and we would have had to rush back from PSU to make it on time. She is also in rehearsals for a mid March production of West Side Story and is feeling like her voice is getting tired. She also said that she hoped that her dropping out would make room for someone else to audition (maybe, maybe not enough time for PSU this weekend but surely for BC) and I was happy to know that she was thinking of other people.

So that's it! The audition merry-go-round is officially over for us. We'll wait to hear from the other schools where she has completed the process and also to see if she is offered any merit scholarship aid. Regardless, unless there is some amazing offer that we do not anticipate, I think we are the proud parents of a little wolverine! While I am very happy that we have survived AND have a happy ending in sight, I must confess to some "post partum" feelings. Things have been so "busy and intense" for so long, I'm not sure I know what to do with "calm and happy!"

Reading that last bit back, I hope I don't sound obnoxious. I apologize in advance if I do. It's just that I feel like we have all shared fears, dreams and questions as well as information; so I'm hopeful that we can support each other with whatever news comes and with the inevitable decisions that will have to be made by many of us. I'll be hanging in here for as long as I think I can contribute to the dialogue. As always, thanks to everyone for your continuing contributions and support as well.

PS. If anyone has a child who is accepted to Michigan as an MT major or knows someone else who might be going, please let us know.

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 09:21 pm: Edit

Theatermom,

Congratulations to your daughter! I remember what a great feeling it was to get into a program that I wanted. Yay for her!

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 10:00 pm: Edit

Thanks Emily! It's a pretty happy time around here. And continuing thanks to you for all you are contributing to this discussion. We as parents can do all kinds of "research" but it can't hold a candle to the information real students like you provide from the inside of these programs. You are helping so many people. Brava!

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 11:30 pm: Edit

Theatermom,

Congratulations! I hope that your D will be a very happy Wolverine. I must confess to being a little jealous that you're stepping off the merry-go-round already. But,if I were in your shoes I'm sure I'd make the same decision. I hope that Michigan will be everything you and your D are hoping for. I hope that all of our kids will end up in nurturing programs that will help them become the best they can be. I have appreciated all your support this year. Keep sending positive thoughts our way!

By Janenw (Janenw) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 12:59 am: Edit

Hello everyone! I am joining in from the Pacific NW - mother of a sophomore girl in HS - (a senior boy too - but his was a different search..no performing for him!) I have found you all to be very helpful with info for our future - and I wanted to share the small bit that I know. There ARE two (2) programs at Tisch/CAP 21 for the summer. One is residential and 4 weeks (Tisch) no audition and 16 students and the other (CAP 21) is 6 weeks with no housing provided and an audition is required. Not sure how many students are accepted. Two different web sites - different procedures. The weeks overlap.

A little off the topic of auditions for college acceptance - but since I have noticed some parents of younger HS kids joining in - thought I would too.
For you parents of the students that are in their senior year - what programs did you find most fun, helpful, worthwhile? I have seen CMU, NHSI, Tisch/CAP21, Broadway Theatre Project, Interlochen, Perry-Mansfield mentioned at one time or another. Any others worth talking about?

Thanks in advance!

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 08:04 am: Edit

Janenw,

Yes, I think that's what I indicated, there are two programs but only one is a Tisch program. Tisch has several summer drama programs and one happens to work with CAP21. It's more like a camp experience even though not the typical one. The actual CAP21 program is very different and much more intense. It's run at a professional level and the experience of those involved will usually be different than those who attend the Tisch program. The Tisch program includes NYU housing and the CAP21 program requires you to arrange your own housing, usually also at NYU. I know a lot of kids who have attended the various and assorted drama programs and camps and from what I've seen, the most talented kids (and I'm not sure if this was innate or learned at their choice of program) came from places like Stagedoor, French Woods, Centauri, and the CAP21 program. Having said that, the majority of kids that I know at Tisch haven't ever attended any of these programs so take that for what it's worth. There were several kids who were in my audition block last year who had attended a few of these and I remember their parents being sure that they were pretty much a shoo-in for Tisch because of it. That didn't happen. I guess my advice is let your kids choose the program they want, for the right reasons; that they'll have fun or be with friends, etc. Don't look at it as something to add to their resume. Just my two cents.

By Noccadad (Noccadad) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 08:17 am: Edit

Thanks Emily and Janenw for the clarification, I got a chance to review (and clarify for myself and d)the pure Cap 21 program last night.

Gadad, we live close to tulane and it is a fine program while not as well known as the others you see here. Very costly and unsure of financial aid patterns but academic standards are very rigorous.

They have a fantastic Summer Lyric Program

By Chrisru (Chrisru) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 08:38 am: Edit

Janenw,
For folks who cannot for one reason or another fit a five to eight week summer program into their budgets or schedules, OCU offers a 17 or 18 day MT program for high school students. My son went last summer and will go again this year. Last summer they did The Pajama Game, and the production is directed by the director of the MT program. Their website is not up to date but we have spoken with them and they are doing a camp this summer from July 7 - 24. Here is the website to watch for details. http://www.okcu.edu/music/academy/classes.asp
We were disappointed because my son's high school starts the first week in August, and that is preceded by a week of required show choir camp, so it was impossible to fit any of the other programs into his schedule. But we were extremely pleased with the experience at OCU.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 09:25 am: Edit

Welcome Janenw! I am a parent a senior and soph as well. While both have done musical theater, the older one is not pursuing this in college (other than as an EC) but is waiting like your son, to hear where she is admitted for next year. My soph is going into musical theater for college and beyond. A very recent decision was made to allow her to file for early graduation, and graduate in three years instead of four so we are putting the wheels in motion as I had no idea we'd be looking into colleges with her already. I just got her some performing arts directories (though honestly the names of the programs out there we pretty much know) and she took it to school to peruse today.

As far as your question on summer theater programs, I can speak to that. Let me first say that sending my kids to these programs never was with college in mind. They begged to go at a young age to these programs, loved them and did them for many years. I never even thought of it in terms of looking good for college or any of that. I have since discovered that so many of the most talented kids at my younger D's program have gotten into the best college musical theater programs out there. Actually she has been exposed to these college programs from a young age cause of so many friends who have gone onto them and that is why she already has on the brain where she wants to go!

I will just give you the basics here but please, if you want more details, I would be more than happy to share them with you as I have with other parents, cause it is very helpful to get first hand information about programs. We have had many families call to talk to me and to my child to learn more. We did that very thing when we looked into performing arts summer programs for our daughters years ago and did not know anyone who had attended them (we live in VT) and called and asked for references.

My 15 year old has attended Stagedoor Manor in the Catskills of NY for six summers and is returning this summer for her seventh. This theater program has three 3-week sessions and so a child can attend for 3, 6, or 9 weeks. My daughter goes for six, though once stayed for nine. Most go for three or six. Each session is a complete session. The program produces 36 full scale musicals and dramas per summer. The level of these shows are very high. They have professional directors, musical directors, and choreographers. Every child is cast in a show. As well, they offer classes in all facets of theater, including many levels and kinds of dance, acting, singing, auditioning, tech, etc. Each child is normally enrolled in 8 classes per session. Some are by audition, such as Acting Master Class or Dance Master Class and those are longer classes. There is also a select (by audition) cabaret troupe that performs off campus at resort hotels. If your child makes that, they take less classes per session cause they are rehearsing basically for two shows, that and their musical/drama. My daughter has been in that all six summers and it is an intensive group. There is so much more I could tell you but that is the basic program. The bonds between the kids who attend is hard to describe. Stagedoor is my daughter's life.

My other daughter went for four summers to French Woods Festival of the Performing Arts, also in the Catskills of NY. Like Stagedoor, they offer three 3-week sessions and my daughter always went for six weeks. Like Stagedoor, they put on 36 full scale productions per summer, very top notch. I forgot to say but both programs are for ages 8-18 but the shows are grouped by age ranges. You could put all of Stagedoor into French Woods, same offerings. But French Woods offers more beyond the theater program. They also have a full range of music programs and some kids attend for that as their focus. The musicals are accompanied there by full pit orchestras. They also offer everything else under the sun. Each child selects their individualized program. You could attend there and JUST do theater...your show, and classes and stuff like dance classes (audition for levels, like at Stagedoor). Not every child is there for theater, whereas they are at Stagedoor. My daughter focused on three things at FWF....her musical, dance, waterskiing and tennis. FWF has a setting that looks like a camp, though has many theaters on campus. Stagedoor's facility was once a resort hotel complex and so it is smaller and not camp-like. The kids live in rooms with roommates at Stagedoor, and in cabins at FWF. Both camps have many talented kids. FWF is way bigger in size and number of kids attending, than is Stagedoor.

If you saw the movie that was released last summer, entitled "Camp", it was loosely based on Stagedoor Manor and was filmed there. I believe it is soon to be released on video. It is not that accurate as to what the camp is really like but it was written by an alum of the camp. In any case, you can "see" the camp in the movie.

If you want more specific information about either program, I would be happy to provide it. I cannot say enough about either program. If your child loves the intensity of theater, I must say, Stagedoor is that kind of intense program.
Susan

PS...kids come from all over the country (and out of the country) to these summer theater programs. You live in the northwest and funny thing but a week or so ago, I was in NYC with my younger D who had an audition there and she took a dance class in the city and while she was in it, I was walking around and went into The Gap. A young man rang up my sale and I thought he would think I was nuts but I recognized him as a boy who used to go to Stagedoor with my daughter and is now in college. I told him that he looks like one of my D's friends and he said, well, I am not from here but from Seattle and I was like, I am not from here either and I know you are from the northwest and are so and so who was in Merrily We Roll Along at Stagedoor Manor! The boy was surprised. Anyway, even kids from your neck of the woods come to Stagedoor (and French Woods) in summer.

By Janenw (Janenw) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 11:54 am: Edit

Thanks everyone for the info about some of the summer programs. My D is shifting her focus from ballet (2 summers spent at ballet intensives) to musical theatre - so wanted to point her in the right direction. Like the other kids involved in theatre and the arts in general - she has a passion that must be fed! I just want to make sure that we get the most 'bang for the buck' as it were.

Before moving to Portland OR 15 years ago - I was a casting director in LA - so I am well aware of how actors,singers,dancers can be taken advantage of. We take our kids out of that environment -(my husband was a writer/producer for TV) and 2 of the 3 are clamoring to get back in! Such is life!

So - I just want to keep them safe - with a positive summer experience (and beyond).
I have gleaned lots of good advice from this list - and look forward to many more posts!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 01:45 pm: Edit

Emilyp....Since I recall we discussed on here the idea of graduating high school early (in three years) and going onto Tisch and you MAY have said that they would not look upon that favorably...I thought I would share something with you....

I mentioned that my current tenth grader has pushed us to let her graduate early and pursue going to college for musical theater a year earlier than we would have done. We talked about it and though I do not love the idea, she has her reasons and is very strong willed and driven. She will have enough credits to graduate early as she has accelerated alot and will have nearly exhausted her school's curriculum anyway. One of my many hesitations is wondering how these programs she wants to apply to would view an early graduate cause if it is going to be detrimental to admissions, then it is not to her benefit to let her apply a year earlier than she normally would have. So, as we take the very first steps in this process, and as she is currently signing up for next year's courses and putting in to become a senior and not a junior, she wanted me to call the programs and inquire their perspective on this before we go any further. I have only spoken to three so far...CCM, CMU and NYUTisch. Just so you know, the admissions person at Tisch just spoke to me and said that it is absolutely fine to apply after graduating high school in less than four years as long as she earns a diploma and in fact they have admitted students like that. Often such students choose to write an essay addressing why they graduated early and their readiness and so forth. In any case, it is perfectly fine to do there. Also, so far CMU and CCM both said it is totally a NON issue. My daughter will have proven me wrong (once again). Anyway, I am sharing it with you cause I thought you had said that the school might not want early graduates who are younger. It seems I will be embarking on this journey sooner than I thought. I would love to be done the journey with my current senior first!
Susan

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Hi Susan,

Oh I know that they have admitted students to NYU who graduate after their junior year. I know that the Admissions office will not consider it a problem as long as the applicant realizes that they will be considered the same as the student who takes four years to graduate. So, if they have all the requisite classes, then that part of it won't be a problem.

The concern I had was strictly personal. From my experience, I wouldn't recommend that a student apply at that age, especially for Tisch. It's strictly my own opinion. The Tisch classes are made up of students of varying ages, probably moreso than in any other college at NYU, but generally that range in ages tends to be older. It's not unusual for there to be 22 or 23 year olds in first year studio. That combined with living in the city would lead me to discourage someone who's that age from applying early. I realize you've said that your daughter is very mature and is used to being with older kids in her summer program. There's a big difference, though, from six weeks in the summer to living 24/7 all through the year with the adjustment to college, following a strenuous academic and artistic regimen, to being in Manhattan, to living in very close quarters with a roommate that may not be ideal, to being faced with issues and choices for the first time, and coming, as you've said, from a small town in Vermont. I'm not saying that she couldn't handle it and be successful, I'm just saying that it's important to be aware of all of the issues and not just the fact that she'd like to come to NYC a year early. I visited the city numerous times a year for years prior to coming here for school, but I can tell you that it is just nowhere near the same experience as living here. I wish her the best of luck.

By Star_Dancer517 (Star_Dancer517) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 04:50 pm: Edit

Hello all,
I am a female freshman theatre major in Milwaukee Wisconsin, but my heart is really set in musical theatre. As crazy as it may sound, I am starting to look into grad schools for music theatre, or I may even eventually transfer to a school with a musical theatre major. Any advice on this would be highly appreciated, since I am not always sure where to start!! :-D

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Emily, I can appreciate your thoughts on this matter! Let me also say that while she would be graduating in three years, she would be considered a senior next year I think at our school. In middle school she took many courses in high school and thus entered ninth grade with many credits already. The social piece actually is not my concern cause both home and at her summer program, she has always gravitated toward older peers. Her roomies and closest buddies every summer are much older than herself. Some are already at schools like Tisch, some are entering next fall. She is very close with the ones who will all be seniors next fall in high school. She seems part of that group who would be entering college when she now wants to (geez, this reminds me of back when she was four and had an early entrance into kindergarten and entered with what was considered her peer group but actually was the group a year ahead of her!). Here where we live, she also is very tight with current juniors and seniors, for instance particularly in theater activities. Nobody ever considers her as younger even though she is quite a bit younger as she is ahead in school already. So, socially and academically, it is not of issue even for me.

For me, the biggest issue is just the maturity of being independent at just under age 17, when normally people go off to college at 18. I know she feels that is a nonissue and it very well might be (as she is a very independent type in the first place and would love to live away from home as she has every summer since age 8). But still I feel that is young to be on one's own. But it is still a year and a half away. And yes, city life is WAY different than here. I cannot explain the kind of person she is but she is very driven and has known what she has wanted and feels a need to guide her learning and what stage she is ready for what. She has always done stuff or gotten into stuff at a young age. Schooling her has been challenging (anyone with gifted kids will know what I mean). It is not like I love this idea but it is hard stopping her. She will love being on her own, it is just that I will be nervous thinking of her being unsupervised and all that but she is really into wanting to go this route. She feels there is no value for her to spend two more years here and that she has gotten everything she could out of school and what she has wanted to accomplish in other areas prior to college. She just won the state scholarship award for voice and also the state scholarship award for jazz (on vocals) and is fifteen. She has done lead here for years, just directed a show, got in the select dance troupe here on the young side, so she kinda has done what she aspired to for her high school years. She will have finished a lot of the high school curriculum in several subjects. She has good reasons, but you also have good points. Believe me, I think about it alot. Mixing with older kids is a problem for some but would not be for her. The intensity of the work is very appropriate for her too. She is beyond her years in that regard. But being on her own is something I am not ready for!!! That is the piece that concerns me the most. On paper, she can make a great case for herself, that is true. Emotionally for me, it is still hard to go along with.

Susan

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 06:24 pm: Edit

Oh, Susan, I can identify with your daughter very much. It seems we have similar experiences and similar passions. I'm sure you and my mom would have a good time comparing notes. I was in a self-contained gifted program for four years prior to high school and it was great. My arts h/s provided me with another form of challenge and enrichment for my years there, in addition to being very challenging academically. I think I've mentioned before that it was admission by audition and academic review only, and if you didn't keep up your grades, you were asked to leave. I probably could have graduated a year early but I chose to stay because, truthfully, I hated the thought of leaving. I loved my school, my classmates, and my teachers and really hated it when my years there came to an end.

Going to Tisch was my dream and goal for years, too. My parents were always supportive, although my dad did occasionally try to inquire as to whether I'd like to try something else, perhaps something such as medicine or law. My grandma still can't believe I'm not in med school! She thinks I'm crazy, but she also brags constantly to her friends about me, and always came to all my performances in h/s. It's a challenge, I think, for a lot of families when they have kids who are academically gifted but who want to study something in the arts rather than the more conventional subjects. That's one reason that NYU is such a good fit for me because it has arguably the best theatre training in the country along with the opportunity to get an excellent academic education, by allowing me to double major. So, even though I'm not in med school, my grandma is pretty happy.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 09:30 pm: Edit

Emily, thanks for sharing! Yes, it has been an interesting ride with this child cause she is on the one hand quite gifted academically, could go into most anything, is particularly a gifted writer, but has had the passion for musical theater since preschool. I do not mind, cause I think it is good to go after what you love. And your intelligence and skills in other areas will never go away. I know she wants to go into a life of the stage and I hope it happens for her but I also know there are other things she can always do...my hubby used to say she is like Jodie Foster.....a writer, a director, an actor. Ya never know. She enjoyed creating, directing and choreographing a musical recently, though still performed in it but found she enjoyed the other end of it too. What are you double majoring in? I like the idea of a conservatory training in a regular university, like the situation at Tisch. She will want to apply to CCM and Boston Conservatory I am sure but I see benefits from having college beyond the conservatory, though she reminds me that that is there at CCM. She wants to apply ED to Tisch.

You are in Playwrights Horizon, right? A friend who was in Cap21 switched to that this year, Julie K., a junior from Florida, not sure you know her, but I think she may also have double majored in chemistry. What is your other major? And do you want to act in theater, tv, or film or are you interested in musical theater? My D really loves all three areas of singing, dancing and acting. I have to say she does have our support and we are not one of those families who tried to dissuade their child from this field. I have no idea how she got so into this though both my kids did a professional show when very young and both loved it but both were exposed to many activities. This one just grew and grew, for both girls, but my younger one turned it into her LIFE. People always ask where she got the talent and I say, NOT FROM ME!!! I cannot sing or do any of it! I had no idea I would have a kid who went into this.

My daughter would be quite envious of your performing arts high school. There is no such thing in our state. Our high school happens to value the arts and we are fortunate that it has a very strong music program (won a Grammy actually) and the musicals are also well done. But we have supplemented whatever they offer with much more outside the school day (would be easier to have had it as part of school like you did) and so all the umpteen dance classes, and theater productions, piano lessons, and voice, etc. takes place every afternoons, evenings, and weekends and involves a ton of driving over a wide region, considering where we live. And then there is the intensive summer theater program out of state each year. I can imagine how you wanted to stay at your high school cause it sounds very much like the attachment my D has with her summer program! She could not imagine giving it up. She had an offer to perform at Lincoln Center a few summers ago and it merely meant switching her sessions at her theater program, still could attend but not her same six weeks she normally goes and it meant less time with certain kids and I am thinking, how do you give up Lincoln Center, your NY debut, cause of just having less weeks with certain kids who go to her usual six week session?? I had my hand on the phone to decline it before she realized what she was doing! That is how strongly connected she is to that place and the kids. Today the person at CMU admissions asked me if I knew about their pre-college program and I was like, yes, I heard it is great (from you guys on here, lol) but my daughter would never give up the summer theater program she has gone to for years ! So, I understand where you are coming from in regard to YOUR high school. My daughter is not that attached to ours, though likes her friends, of course. She feels like she would be ready to leave after three years and have done all she wanted to there. Of course, any peers she has in her own grade think she is nuts to leave them and not be in their senior class. But her goals go beyond that stuff. Her peers in the summer program eitehr have gone to college, are about to go (one roomie is in ED at Tisch in Strasborg for next fall), or going to be seniors next year. She sees herself moving on with the latter group. If she stayed more summers like she could after this one, her "group" will have moved on.

Also your school system had a gifted program. There is no such thing in Vermont. We have had to have many accommodations made over the years, multi age groupings, independent studies, acceleration, early entrance, taking high school courses when in the middle school, college level long distance writing courses, and so on. It has worked out but never an easy path. I guess this latest thing about graduating early is one more accommodation she has sought or needed. I know my mom is going to not be happy about this one. My inlaws will likely be ok with it cause my sister in law who is much younger than I, graduated high school TWO years early the month she turned 16, was still valedictorian and got accepted to every top school. I never thought her going off to college young was a good idea and now, look where I am with my own child! This one is way more socially advanced than that one was but that person did fine and is now a college professor.

Anyway, I do not care that my daughter has chosen the arts even if academically gifted. The challenge has been merely that she is a challenging person! I will tell her that you have felt NYU is a good match for both those ends of yourself.....theater and academic challenge. Thanks for sharing all that. What state are you from, btw?
Susan
PS, should she ever get into Tisch, you can be a big sis! Just kidding.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 04:27 pm: Edit

I am off to L.A. to audition for CCM, CMU, and NYU! I will be sure to fill you all in. Hopefully I will be able to post before I audition for UNT and OCU next weekend, but if not, then you can hear about all those at once. :-)

Shauna

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 04:57 pm: Edit

Shauna,

Wow! That's alot of auditions together. But you sound like you've done your homework so go west young lady, go west! and knock 'em dead.

Break a leg! We're all rooting for you!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 05:12 pm: Edit

BREAK A LEG SHAUNA!!

Susan

By Peggy (Peggy) on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Greetings!

What a week! But as promised, here are some comments from Stephanie's first two auditions, both of which were at the Chicago Regional Auditions.

First the background. She was schedule to audition at CCM last month, but got sick. After a bunch of phone calls, they decided that she should show up at the Chicago Regional Audition without a confirmed time, and they would try to fit her in.

So Husband and Daughter took off Sunday (5 hours away) for Chicago. And true to their word, they fit her in Monday morning. Here are some of her comments:

The CCM people were very nice. They told them that they accept about 24 people. And you must know how to sing.

The dance routine was "easy", but she has 14 years of dance training. She said that if you had "some" dance, you would do alright. If you had no dance, you would be totally lost. But, according to her, just smile a lot!

The room she did her monologue and solo in was big and had a lot of hard surfaces. It made her voice sound huge! One thing she wanted to warn people about is, because they video your performance, you can't move around a whole lot during your monologue or your song.

Unfortunately, when she was done, all they said was "Thank you."

According to my Husband, everything up until entering the dance audition was utter chaos! Going without an audition time drove him up the wall. But because of this, he decided they needed to get to the Hilton extra early. The original schedule when she was supposed to audition in Cincinnati said that sign-in started at 7:45 and dance auditon started at 8:30. Since dance audition on Chicago started at 9:00, we figured sign-in started at 8:15. So they got to the hotel about half an hour early. There was a big sign in the lobby, listing all the colleges and CCM wasn't on the list! The person at the information desk had no idea where CCM was. He ended out calling me to get the number of the college campus, and called them. But once Stephanie got signed in, and got an audition time, everything went well.

Wednesday was her audition in Chicago with Otterbein. This audition went a lot better. She got into the audition early because the guy ahead of her didn't show up. This turned out to be good because she was scheduled to be in there for 20 minutes, and they kept her 35 minutes. They asked her sing a third song. Because this was a regional audition and she had to provide her own tape music, she didn't have a tape of the third song, so they let her sing it acapello (spelling!). They also worked with her on her singing, dancing and monologue. According to her, the exercises they gave her were awesome!

The dancing was a bit different. Most of the other students she talked to beforehand said that all the judges did was ask about their dance experience. With her, they asked her to do some actual combinations. Because she wasn't expecting this during the vocal and monologue portion, she didn't have her dance shoes with her. So she asked if she could just take her shoes off and dance barefoot! What they gave her was easy (to her) -- a short (16 count) ballet combination and 16 count jazz combo.

When asked what she wanted me to tell you all about this audition, her first comment was the people were really friendly. She also suggests that your song have a place in it that has long, drawn-out notes. If it doesn't, have a back-up song that does.

And she wants everyone to know that there is an awesome Smoothie place in the basement of the Palmer House Hilton. Try the Raspberry.

Peg

By Inkyblb (Inkyblb) on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 07:55 pm: Edit

Thanks so much for everyone's input - all this great information is invaluable as my son and I start muddling through the MT selection/application/audition process. He's a junior this year at a performing arts high school. We're trying to sort out the early decision dilemma in regard to MT. He's being advised not to apply ED, so that in the spring he can evaluate scholarship options, but I've read various sources that say you may have a better chance of acceptance applying ED. Also he's still wavering on the Cap21(exclusive)/Steinhardt choice - they are such different programs - doesn't seem to be as many acting classes in S. and not much voice in Cap21 - NYU is definitely his #1 choice, but of course, he wants to make sure he's well-trained in all three areas. Emily - wondering what your take is on this one. Is it easier to get into S. than Cap? Anyone else have any info about ED vs. reg. decision at other schools?

Congrats to those who have gotten acceptances - best of luck to those of you still auditioning and waiting!!

Another harried mom,
BB

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 10:10 pm: Edit

Peggy,
Thanks for the auditions info - it is so nice of all of you to post this. Tell your daughter my son is most impressed with the smoothie information as he is a smoothie seeking missle.
Jenifer

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Inkyblb and Suzievt and Emily114,
Hi! I am interestd in your info about NYU-Tisch exp. Cap21.
Inkyblb, is that true, about there not being much voice training in Cap 21?
Its our last audition and I should have researched this first as I am really thorough about that. But, I am tired and my daughter really wants to be in NY because, its NY. But, after reading Emily 114's post about the reality of it, the 24/7 reality, not just the allure of NYU and /or living in NY - that made me sit up straight in my chair. How do you make a decision.
My daughter's best qualities are her dance and voice. She's already been accepted to OCU - School of Music's MT program and is very happy about that. In fact she refers to it as her school. (Frankly I am tired of hearing all these people at her school (college-prep, not exactly knowledgeable about MT, etc.) say to her, "What - Oklahoma , never heard of it. Why not New York? We picture you in New York..." But, she is still going through with the rest of her auditions. CCM was a waste of time- however. I mean when you consider the hotel, the flight,etc. and CCM really only wants a certain type and then that certain type really has no assurance of graduating, why bother.
But this Cap21 revelation bothers me. The thought that it may be true that those kids don't get much voice training bothers me - also, the whole getting used to living in NY, etc. thing.
All my daughter wants to do is perform and thats also alluring about OCU. They have so many performances a year in the MT/Opera dept. and both divisions get to audition for all Music roles starting as freshman. In fact, last fall a freshman had the lead in Kiss Me Kate. The only downside is their lack of a senior showcase. How detrimental is that do you suppose?
Suzievt, why did the girl you know switch from Cap21 to Playwrights? Thats pretty interesting considering the MT obsessed type person who would covet Cap21.
Anyway, I am usually more articulate, but, if anyone has any answers or insights, I'd be happy to hear about them.
Tired and confused,
Mtheatremom

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 07:43 pm: Edit

Mtheatremom...I do not feel qualified to be specific about Cap21 cause afterall, I just have a high schooler who wants to go there. EmilyP might be able to be specific as she attends Tisch, though is not in Cap21. However, at CAP21's link at Tisch's website, it shows their curriculum. First year students have a full year of voice technique, second year students have a full year of vocal performance, third year and fourth years have full years of private voice. Obviously singing is a significant part of the program. So, is dance. Acting too of course.

While I know over a dozen kids at Tisch who went to my D's summer theater program for years with her, I know two who got into Cap21 specifically. Both these girls, one from FL and one from MI are extremely talented singers and dancers. The one from FL told my D she switched studios after two years into Playwrights cause she wanted more ACTING training. Remember that each kid's experience and background is different. This girl has a lot of voice and dance background and has been the leads in numerous productions. As a child she was on a national tour as well. The other girl I know in Cap also was the lead in numerous productions. My own child feels a correlation with these girls in terms of being a bit like them, particularly with strengths in singing and dancing and also has been lead often in the same program they had been (they are quite a bit older than her). I would say in my own D's case, she has more training in voice and dance than in acting, though has some in acting as well. She has done way more musicals than plays but has done some of each. So, your daughter very well might fit the kind of kid that is right for Cap21. On top of that, I think there is more voice and dance in Cap than in the other studios at Tisch though some of them also have that.....today coincidentally, my D was researching all this and saw some of that in Stella Adler and in Lee Strasborg.

I think once your daughter has her admit list, she should put each school's curriculum side by side. Most seem to have the courses for each year listed on their websites...and compare/contrast. See if you can talk to current students to get the inside scoop. I think the girl we know from MI may have also taken private voice in NYC in addition to what Cap21 offered. Remember, too, that while your D will definitely want to continue with voice and dance training, if she does not have much in acting training, she needs to fill that in now.

Anyway, it sounds like your D loves Oklahoma City program and who cares what your local friends say. Most people have NO clue what the top musical theater programs are in the country. The school names either might not ring a bell or are not the usual prestigious college names that get bantered about that are well known. It is entirely a different list of schools. I have a senior right now and she is applying to some very selective schools (not for theater) and people HAVE heard of her schools (not that it matters but just observing). People expect her to go to some top notch school cause of the kind of student she is (ie., valedictorian). My younger D also is a top student so let's just say she gets into a place like CCM or Boston Conservatory or Penn State (from my fingers to God's ears, lol), people around here might be wondering how she ended up at those schools, simply cause they have no idea about where top musical programs are. Not that you owe anyone an explanation but you could simply point out that for musical theater, there are a limitted number of schools and that OCU is one of the best. Educate them if you wish. I know if it comes to that here, people may not know these schools but they will not be suprised to then hear she went off to some great musical theater program cause people know her for that in our neck of the woods. In any case, just have your daughter pick where SHE loves and forget the rest. This time next year, she will be off at some great place and what you tell the neighbors will matter not.

Susan

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 08:21 pm: Edit

Mtheatremom,

Here's the curriculum description and list for CAP21 students as noted on the Tisch website, just in case you haven't seen it:

COLLABORATIVE ARTS PROJECT 21 (CAP 21)

HISTORY AND PHILOSOPHY:
CAP 21 is a musical theatre performance program which provides extensive training in the three interrelated disciplines of acting, dance, and voice/music. This comprehensive program utilizes the teaching techniques


and professional experience of its dynamic faculty and guest master teachers to prepare the student for a career in musical theatre. A solid acting techniques focusing on Stanislavski and incorporating various approaches to acting exercises and scene study work becomes the young actor's firm foundation. Intensive instruction using the Lessac System of vocal production is incorporated in both acting and vocal classes. The voice/music curriculum trains the student in sight singing, ear training, and vocal technique. First year students begin private voice lessons in their second semester. The dance program enables each student to develop correct technique in ballet, tap and jazz/theatre dance in basic beginner to advanced classes. Various styles and historical periods are incorporated as they progress. For 2nd and 3rd year students, special classes are added in vocal performance, music, scene study, dialects, audition techniques and the business of "The Business."


COURSE OF STUDY FOR CAP 21 STUDENTS: NYU First Year Curriculum
Fall Semester
Acting - Scene Study
Vocal Technique
Voice and Speech
Music Theory
Ballet, Jazz, and Tap
Spring Semester
Acting - Scene Study
Vocal Technique
Voice and Speech
Music Theory
Private Voice*

NYU Second Year Curriculum
Fall Semester
Acting - Scene Study
Vocal Performance
Voice and Speech
Music Theory
Ballet, Jazz and Tap
Private Voice* Spring Semester
Acting - Musical Scene Study
Vocal Performance
Voice and Speech
Music Theory
Ballet, Jazz and Tap
Private Voice*

NYU Third Year Curriculum
Fall Semester
Acting - Scene Study
Acting - Musical Theatre
Monologues
Dialects
Ballet, Theatre Dance
Tap (optional)
Private Voice*
Spring Semester
Acting - Scene Study
Vocal Performance
Audition Technique
Monologues
Dialects
Ballet, Theatre Dance
Business of Auditions
Private Voice*

NYU Fourth Year Curriculum (first semester only)
Rehearse and perform Practicum Shows
Ballet, Theatre Dance (optional)
Private Voice*


As far as the amount of voice training, I don't think it would be a problem. A lot of Cappies do private classes as well, as do many Tischies in other studios. It's not unusual and it's relatively easy to find excellent vocal training in the city.

One thing I'm not sure has been mentioned here is that first year drama majors at Tisch are not permitted to audition for productions. This is something that a lot of kids aren't happy about when they first hear about it but truthfully, once you're here, you'll understand why. You are so busy with your studio training and class productions and scene studies, etc. plus the required tech work you have to do, there'd be no time for a major rehearsal schedule. They certainly want you to have an amount of consistent training prior to having that extra on top.

One other thing I should mention is that after two years in your studio, you have the option to transfer to another one for further training. It isn't unusual at all and a lot of students do this, Cap21's included. Having great experience in dance and voice is wonderful, but MT people also need straight acting training as much as students in the other studios. Transferring from Cap21 to other studios prior to the end of the two years DOES happen, though. There's one boy in my studio this year that I know did that because CAP21 just didn't 'work' for him.

Don't let people get to you with their ignorant comments about MT programs. As Susan said, most people don't have a clue about the good programs so you can either be patient and educate them, or ignore them

And the 'living in the city' thing is such a personal thing. It's impossible to determine how any one individual will adjust but I will say again that I spent a ton of time in the city over the past ten years. I knew my way around and was travelling the city with my friends, on my own, from the time I was 14 (with my mom at the hotel worrying!). I loved the city from a very young age. However, even for me, it's been a huge adjustment to live here. It's very different than when you're visiting and on vacation. Not that I don't still love it, because I do, but it's just different, and not always easy.

By Momkallie (Momkallie) on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 10:13 pm: Edit

Hi Susan:
Great advice about not worrying about where you study MT. It's the program that counts. And besides Oklahoma, does anyone really want to attend school in Ann Arbor or many of these other areas that many of the better programs are located? Some of the best programs are not right at your door!

And best of luck Shauna! I hope you have a wonderful OCU audition experience. We were very impressed that they were very personal and very helpful (we talked to the dean of the school while waiting..how many times does that happen??). I take it you are auditioning for the MT program. Just a suggestion: Make sure you know your classical/opera audition piece well. I've heard about some great kids who totally blew their audition by not learning their classical song. I've found OCU doesn't play games!

And let us know what you thought of their opera that's running that weekend (forgot the name). We're hoping to get back to see "Man Of La Mancha" in the spring.

Again, best of luck!

By Thinggoes (Thinggoes) on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 11:09 pm: Edit

Hello Everyone-
As a third year musical theater major at UCLA (though I'm currently studying abroad in England for the year), I wanted to share my experiences with you of the program as I see it, and as it's grown.

The program itself is relatively young compared to most other MT programs. That said, it is unique in being the first of its kind on the west coast, and each year the school takes only 20 MT students, and 60 total. My own class only has 14.

The initial year is all encompassing, and groups the entire freshman class together in what the school calls "The Freshmen Experience". The classes deal with all aspects of theater, including introductions to directing, design (costume, scenic, and lighting with practical lab work in each for all three terms), music theory and ballet(for those that wish to pursue musical theater), performance (a class that explores the wide spectrum of performance, from Pina Bausche to Japanese theater), and textual analysis (from Greek drama through modern contemporary issues). Admittedly, many people find it tedious, as I did myself, to not be able to start immediately into singing, acting, and dancing. However, I have found (about two years later I might add) that some of the skills I learned have proven unusually valuable. I'm currently about to direct a production of "Company" here at my host university in the UK, and the background I got in Introduction to Directing, Design, Textual Analysis and Performance have helped me immensely in realizing the production from several different aspects, particularly the first two mentioned above. The Design aspect is specifically one that I found enlightening, as schematics of color, light, perspective, and texture were explored in the way they can connotate certain things to the human subconscious. But in the beginning, I definitely found it tough going, and boring at times.

The program kicks into high gear in the second year, when each student is alloted a one one-hour voice lesson per week, music theory twice a week, ballet three times a week, voice and speech twice a week, and acting class twice a week. The program is fairly rigorous, and the total amount of time devoted to it usually about 20 hours a week, plus an additional GE here and there. The school maintain liberal arts requirements, which for me ended up making my classload about 35 hours a week. So yes the program is downright tiring at times, particularly if you are working on a production, which will add another 12 to 15 hours a week.

For the musical theater kids, it can be gruesome. The school also has us attend three master classes a term, and usually those classes are confined to each year. So basically you get a master class every three weeks with all the people in your year in MT, where you each have to sing and they pick it apart. At times, they can be guests (the MT students right now are about to go into one with Jason Robert Brown), or they can be faculty (such as Karen Morrow, who is an Adjunct Prof.). Typically, these classes fall on weekends and last anywhere from three to five hours.

Third year and Fourth year students also get group singing (a bit like a class on ensemble work and vocal harmony) as well as tap, jazz, and musical theater dance, and theater history. At this point, dance takes up five days a week, and the group singing fills in another two days. So my recommendation is to try and get all GE's done before Junior year. I will have that problem when I get back, and I might have to stay an extra two terms, so I would highly recommend finishing them up.

In my opinion that was the most frustrating part is the amount of GE's required. As someone who has a job as well, it can be downright nasty to juggle, but it can be done. The school frowns a bit on students who work outside, particularly performing, because they want you to stay focused on your training as well as the liberal arts. But I say...go for it!

I hope that has been somewhat helpful. If I sounded preachy, please accept my apologies. I hope this helps you all, and please feel free to ask me any questions. I'd be more than happy to answer, and then I can tell you specifically what I think!

All The Best,
K

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 07:02 am: Edit

Momkallie,
Hi! I agree with your comment to Susan about other people and their comments based on lack of knowledge. Thats why I read this post because you all understand!
Anyway, my daughter and I saw OCU's opera the weekend of the Nov. audition. Did you get a chance to see it? We thought it was phenomenal -perfection actually. I would love for us to see Man of La Mancha as well.
I remember you writing about the dance teachers they have at OCU. Is it correct they have the same dance teachers as the dance majors (I hope)?!
Ditto what you said about the classical/art vocal piece - very important to the audition. Whats interesting was, my daughter loved their dance audition, however, it didn't even count. That's why the singing portion is so important in their School of Music's audition... (for those of you with upcoming auditions at OCU).
Take care,
M

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 07:56 am: Edit

I have to chime in on the issue about other people's knowledge of MT programs and how it feels to report your child's choices. I couldn't agree more with Momkallie. We live in Philadelphia and if I had a choice, I can think of many locations I'd rather be sending my daughter than Ann Arbor (ANYWHERE within a 200 mile radius of my house for a start.....) But there is also no question that there are a lot of places I'd RATHER NOT send her. Ann Arbor is a great college town that is unfortunately a 9-10 hour drive from our home (so I've been told - please don't tell me it's much more than that!) My real problem is the notion of having to depend on the airlines for anything - especially transporting my daughter and the rest of my family between Philadelphia and Detroit several times a year.

We learned early on in this process that there are very few people who know much about MT programs. My daughter goes to a terrific school with a great reputation for placing kids in prestigious colleges and universities and has a wonderful college advisor; but we really had to educate him about the programs we were interested in. I had to explain the entire application/ audition process to the powers that be at her school so that we could "justify" the number of days she'd be absent to visit/audition at these schools. They were also somewhat less than thrilled at having to treat at least 5 of her choices like early decision applications. She applied to only one school that had an Early Action option but with rolling admissions at two of them and our desire to secure our first choice of audition date (in order to make all 9 of her originally scheduled auditions even logistically possible!), getting applications in early was a necessity. In truth, I know there are kids out there who handle all of this themselves and that amazes me. I somehow felt that it took a small army of volunteers, my daughter included, to negotiate this process.

But back to the idea of "what other people think." We're only human and it's human nature to want to have your choices validated, even celebrated. So the choice is ours. We can take the time necessary to educate people who ask about our kids choices or let them think what they choose. The bottom line is that while the name of the school your child attends or the city where it is located may have some initial cache, it is no guarantee of the quality of the program. What really matters is the work that goes on there every day and how the program nurtures and develops the gifts that your child already brings to the process, helps them acquire the skills they don't have, prepares them to enter a profession fraught with many more disappointments than successes and at the same time helps them keep some perspective to remain a well rounded, caring person. Quite a lot to ask, isn't it? However far away it is, Ann Arbor is home to the school that appears to us to have the greatest chance of accomplishing those goals for our daughter and amazingly (thank you, thank you, thank you, UM) has agreed to accept her.

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 08:04 am: Edit

To Emily114 and Suzievt,
Thank you so much for your comments and support. I agree with you. Emily144, thank you so very much for the Cap21 curriculum. What alot of very helpful info. You are very empathetic and compassionate about what we are all going through. I am sure this time last year for you is still fresh in your memory. Your parents must be very proud of you and your accomplishments!
Susan, thanks for all of your help. The average person here only knows about Julliard (no MT!) and yet they look puzzled... But NYU lights up their face. Even the college guidance counselor just looks helplessly at me and says I am teaching her alot about schools she has never heard about - its kinda of funny actually.
Anyway, both of your daughters are lucky to have a mom like you.
-M.

By Gadad (Gadad) on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 08:24 am: Edit

Thinggoes,

I've tried a couple of times to no avail to find the MT program on the UCLA website. Which department is it in? Do you know where I can find it online?

And my daughter is actually looking for a program that affords a good array of General Ed. How many hours of GE courses are in the program?

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 02:41 pm: Edit

I auditioned for NYU and CMU this weekend...talk about whirlwind, lots of driving. Anyway.

NYU:
The auditioners were personable. They gave us their spiel about the program and what would be expected of us---they were very realistic to Cap21 hopefuls about their chances. The guys said "very unique" three times, which really bothered me, but I'll live.

The students were kind to each other, we shared CDplayers and audition tips and wished each other good luck without malice. I had a sore throat, but I sang and did monologues and she laughed and seemed very interested in my directing and administrative experience) It took about an hour and a half.

The next day was CMU in Los Angeles.

I was actually sick by this time---cold, sore throat, sinus headache---but I told the man at the door and he said to let people know. The program is less interesting to me than NYU because they make you take and English and History class and that's basically all you get in the way of liberal arts. And I don't think that's the way to make actors. How can a woman play Katherine in Henry V if she hasn't spoken french since high school? How can someone play Marlowe if they only know the theatrical climate of the period and not the political, social, and religious climate? Also, freshman and sophomores aren't allowed to perform (as opposed to only freshman at NYU)

So they gave us their spiel for CMU, about how it's a "graduate program at the undergraduate level," and then they sent the actors to do monologues and the MTs off to dance. We did a short ballet combo that included passe, developee, and pirouette---that's about it. The jazz combo was longer but not difficult.

Then we waited for a while and than we sang one at a time. The guy who watched us sing was wonderfully nice, though maybe it was just because I was sick. The accompanist didn't follow much, he went with the page and didn't allow for much expression on the singer's part.
They said at the beginning of the audition that it was fine to start over if we forgot the words or cracked or anything, but my voice was leaving me by that time and I managaed to push through both songs and belt the B, which I was sure I couldn't do again. ;-) I hadn't seen on any of the materials I'd received that the songs should be in 32 bar sections, but on the paper they give you at the door, they specify that. So a lot of us were doing a little frantic cutting.

After the singing, we waited and then were sped to acting. The guy didn't look at me through my comtemporary monologue, which is difficult because there are a couple of visual gags inherent to the comedy. I did my comtemporary monologue and then he asked me to do it again in a different way and then asked if I had any questions. I asked a few, he answer, we shook hands, and I was done.

If anyone has more specific questions, I'm happy to answer.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 07:12 pm: Edit

Emilyp,
You mentioned that there are 22 and 23 year olds in first year at Tisch. I was amazed at that information. Are they first-time college students? Do they already have college degrees in another subject? Did they go to JCs first? I'm just wondering because until I read that I had assumed through everything else I've ever heard or read that if somebody doesn't apply to and get into a top school right out of high school (and then GO THERE), they might as well forget it.

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 07:33 pm: Edit

Mtheatremom,
I sent you an email to your profile email address but it came back to me undelivered. Anyway, I wanted to congratulate you and your daughter for her getting into Michigan! What a big achievement! I know you both are excited and proud - job well done! Like Dancermom, I wish we were through with the audition process, but, my daughter has a few more to go! Anyway, I have enjoyed your thoughtful posts on this site. Don't stay away!
Sincerely,
Mtheatremom
P.S. When did CMU say they would let the kids who auditioned sleeping bag weekend (Jan. 24 and 25) know about their decision? I did not go that weekend.

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 07:43 pm: Edit

Theatremom,
The above message is for you - Forgot to leave off the M on Theatremom - oops!
-Mtheatremom

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 07:50 pm: Edit

Mtheatremom,

CMU does not have a rolling admission policy. They will notify everyone of audition results a couple of weeks after their final audition on February 29.

Congratulations to you and your D on her acceptance to Oklahoma. Good luck with her NYU audition. How many more auditions does your D have remaining?

By Emilyp114 (Emilyp114) on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 07:58 pm: Edit

Mtmommy,

Yes, there are some older students at Tisch, as I'm sure there are in every NYU college. They're first time college students because NYU does not grant second bachelors' degrees. I don't know the particulars of all of them except one and he's a student now because he's been working in various productions until now. I'm sure some may be transfers as well. Even if they've attended elsewhere they have to start off in freshman classes in studio. I think that's misinformation that you've heard about people pretty much ruining their chances if they don't go to a good school right out of high school. I would bet every college in the country has 'mature' students attending. It's not that unusual.

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 09:54 pm: Edit

Emilyp,

Yes, I agree most colleges do have older students. For some reason I had gotten the impression that this wasn't the case with top MT programs. I was thinking it would be different than in chemistry or poli sci or English. My daughter's high school gives the kids the impression that they will have no second chances in life. It's kind of sad.

Do I understand right that you're in a straight drama studio, but that you actually do some MT as part of your work there? Is that just the particular studio that you're in?

Thanks for all your great info for the mommies.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Mtheatremom,

Thank you so much! I'm sure you and your daughter are equally thrilled with her acceptance to OCU. I only wish I could have gotten my daughter to look there. I think I said in an earlier post that a good friend of hers is a junior in the dance program there and loves it. Should I assume that your daughter is waiting to hear from other schools she would prefer over OCU? When she makes her choice, I'm sure we would all be interested to know the factors that influenced the decision.

I'm surprised your email to me was returned. Several people from this discussion have emailed me without problem. Maybe you mistyped it? Try again any time you want.

And I'm not going away anytime soon. I feel like I know so many of the kids who have posted here or whose parents have posted here and I await the outcome of their journeys with great interest and affection.

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Tuesday, February 10, 2004 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Dancermom,
Congrats to you and your daughter regarding Penn State Univ. and Point Park! I'm sure you're excited about both of these wonderful programs! Its been great reading all your postings as well.
As I've said before, nobody else seems to understand this ordeal of constant traveling and auditioning except all of you people. Last weekend, My D and I took over 12 hours to fly to FSU due to: 2 cancelled flights, 1 missed connection, and 3 pointless hours sitting on a runway going nowhere before Delta decided to cancel the flight due to mechanical problems they were unable to fix.
I kept thinking that half of success is just "showing up" and it looked like my D might not be able to show up the next day for the audition. It ended up that we did finally get there at midnight. We got to bed at 1am before a 6am wake-up call. Glad all audition weekends haven't been so stressful (transportation-wise).
The FSU audition was exactly as you described. I don't need to add a thing about that. The 2 spokespersons (one from Theatre and one from School of Music) were very nice. They take about 12; don't try to do half boys half girls, they take the 12 they want. As well, they don't take half from the School of Theatre and half from the School of Music - again its who they want...
Glad to hear again that they don't cut anyone once they're admitted (like you said). Even tho' their website I believe says otherwise. Didn't see much of the campus - too tired. What's this rumor that FSU is such a party-school? Is this from current/past students?
Anyway, my daughter has 2 more auditions left and she's auditioning the same weekend at Boston Conservatory - Saturday. See you there!
-Mtheatremom

By Sunbeam (Sunbeam) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 08:47 am: Edit

I know someone who just left Emerson after her first semester of her freshman year. She was a dance theater major and she learned that the program was no longer accepting freshmen beginning next year. They are apparently closing down that major. This young lady also felt they may be thinking about doing the same with the musical theater program. Has anyone heard anything along these lines?

By Matth (Matth) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 08:50 am: Edit

I have heard rumors about that but I thought they were just that, rumors. Now that someone from Emerson has actually said it, maybe it's true. I know there have been complaints at Emerson forever about the lack of a good music component.

By Yaz42 (Yaz42) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 11:42 am: Edit

Hi,

I'm currently a freshman at Emerson College in the BFA musical theatre program. It is true that last semester the President decided to temporarily decline admittance to incoming classes for BFA Dance, Dance/Theatre, and BA Musical Theatre due to some cost cutting issues. The people in those programs currently will continue with their studies, but no prospective freshmen (as of right now) will be able to apply for those programs. There was a HUGE complaint from the student body and some protests (because Boston is a city of protests, of course) and some people transferred.
However, by all indications, the BFA musical theatre major here at Emerson is getting stronger. They have a new head of the department this year, a wonderful man named Stephen Terrell, who is a former Broadway dancer and a great choreographer; one of his main agendas is to increase the dance at Emerson. They also just opened a new 20 million dollar building, the Tufte or PPC (Performance and Production Center) with 2 great new theatres. I, for one, am having the time of my life here.

These are the classes I'm taking as a second semester freshman.

Acting II: Voice (Linklater work)
Improvisation Lab
Honors Seminar II
Honors Writing Symposium
Voice lesson (1 hour, once a week)
Chorus
Stagecraft: Costume Craft
Production Crew (I'm on ght fly rail for Emerson Dance concert)

Plus, there are tons of things to audition for, from Emerson Stage (only for the Spring musical if you're a freshman --- Pippin, this year) to graduate-directed one-acts to Rareworks to undergrad projects Mercutio to dance troupes. I love it here, and although people always have something to complain about, I'm doing what I love with great teachers and friends, and most importantly doing some very quality work. Since I've been here, I've directed a scene from Angels in America for a class, I'm currently writing a play of my own (my girlfriend's a playwright), I've done microphones for a show, I've made a painting in Scene Painting (surprisingly very good despite what I thought was a complete lack of artistic ability), been on fly rail in the Majestic --- I've been introduced to, and being able to flourish, in all these other aspects of theatre that I hadn't considered. That, I feel is a strength of Emerson College. Expanding beyond your BFA Musical Theatre major to make yourself a more well-rounded person. And, of course, that I can't wait to spend a semester and travel Europe in a castle in the Netherlands next Fall.

If you have any questions about Emerson, just ask and I'll be able to answer.

Hope this helped.

Scott

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:10 pm: Edit

Thanks for your post, Scott, as it is always great to hear from current students in these programs. I am baffled by your part about the degree programs. I have a daughter looking into musical theater programs at the moment for application next fall and Emerson is on her list. She has some friends already in the program, and has one who just got in ED for next fall, so I am not sure I understand correctly, given this friend who was just admitted. And so, are you saying that next fall, kids cannot apply for musical theater? That surely is something I would want to find out! Also, I thought I have read of people on this forum who have auditioned for musical theater for this coming fall??
Sorry if I am dense or simply confused.

Susan

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:29 pm: Edit

Isn't Scott saying they are eliminating the BA, not the BFA? He's saying the BFA is a good one and growing?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, February 11, 2004 - 12:29 pm: Edit

OK, I am going to answer my own question above! But hopefully it might clarify it for some others. I just got off the phone with admissions at Emerson. I had to call anyway as I am calling programs my daughter is interested in to find out their perspective of taking kids who graduate high school early, as she will be doing. First, as the other schools so far have stated, it is totally fine. Since I had them on the phone, and I happened to be talking to a student who graduated from the musical theater program, I asked for clarification on what was posted above regarding the Emerson programs. He told me that they STILL HAVE the BFA program in Musical Theater (what my daughter will want). They went through an extensive review process and decided that the BA in Musical Theater program was not really adequate in preparing students for this field. They also may do away with the dance major, though current students will finish that program. Again, it has to do with how adequate that program is for what the students will need. But dance is certainly still part of the BFA in Musical Theater program and those aspects will be moved into that area.

So, you CAN go to Emerson for musical theater in the future, but it needs to be for a BFA, not a BA from now on.

Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, February 11, 200