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This is what I've boiled my choice down to. Not an incredibly easy decision. Any advice, people? I want to study poli sci btw. Princeton isn't really urban enough for me, but I hear New Haven might not be the kind of "urban" I'm looking for.

By Brooks on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Go to Yale. Its amazing, life changing, and in the city. New Haven is so down to earth and real. They are so much more open minded and fun at yale.

By Brooks on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Let me know what you decide!

By Dadster on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 06:44 pm: Edit

Princeton had the highest "satisfaction" rate when Greene surveyed students some years ago. Only 5% of the surveyed students said they would change schools if they could. This was better than any other elite school. Also, they have an exceptionally high alumni contribution rate, which suggests continuing fondness for the school (or one heck of a development department).

Yale is a great school too, of course, although I'd suggest that New Haven offers some urban negatives without the urban benefits that you might find in Boston or NYC. Good luck, you have some great choices!

By Mo on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 06:49 pm: Edit

Can you possibly visit? Having seen so many warnings posted about New Haven, it turned out to be a pleasant suprise when I finally saw it for myself. Good luck.

By Dave Berry on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 08:38 pm: Edit

Jacob, have you had any contact with Yale students? That should be your #1 source of info about New Haven. If you need a contact, I can provide you with one, although I realize that it's the 11th hour.

As for Princeton, I don't think you'll be able to find a better undergraduate education anywhere in the world. Princeton is only an hour from NYC and Philadelphia and the Princeton area is very progressive. There's a big difference between the Yale and Princeton town-gown relations.

Congratulations on holding two of the hottest admission tickets in college today. BTW, let us know what you decide. Good luck.

By calliope on Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 10:43 am: Edit

Only someone who goes to both schools would be qualified to make such a satatement.

I go to Princeton, and could not imagine myself anywhere else. The atmosphere is definitely laid back; I have never had so much fun in my life.

The work load can be intense, but that's the challenge to be expected at any Ivy.
Princeton has a far different dynamic than any other University. Most people here have come to love it.

By junior on Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 11:13 am: Edit

Yale is much more diverse than Princeton, and therefore much more alive and exciting. Princeton is very white and wealthy and the dining clubs tend to dominate social life. Some people find the surrounding area to be rather boring. I'm not sure on what basis the above poster knows that Princeton has "the best undergraduate education anywhere in the world." Is he an academic? Doesn't sound like it!

By princeton parent on Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 12:06 pm: Edit

Princeton and Yale seem to appeal to different students. To call Princeton "very white and wealthy" is puzzling, given that half the students are on financial aid. As a Princeton parent I can say my son finds the university an extremely exciting place. He is enormously stimulated by his classmates, enjoys their company, and is growing in so many ways. Having come from a very diverse high school where people clustered in racial groups in the cafeteria, he is impressed by how much people of different races socialize with one another. Also, they are eating clubs, not "dining" clubs, and many of them, as Dave notes, can be joined by signing in. Some may find the surrounding area "boring," but he enjoys being in a small town near NYC; he doesn't have such positive memories of several weeks spent at Yale with sirens going all night. Other students much prefer Yale, and it is also, obviously, a wonderful place. I think there are way too many generalizations about Princeton out there. To each his/her own.

By Reconciler on Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 12:28 pm: Edit

I was told by an admissions officer at an elite college that under certain circumstances, a student could qualify for FA even if the family income was $100,00.00/year! As strange as it sounds and since Princeton is one of the most generous schools, it's conceivable that a student could be considered wealthy by most people's standards yet still qualify for need-based aid.

By Fish on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 08:35 am: Edit

That's because those types of families generally have more than 1 kid in college.

By jonathan on Sunday, December 29, 2002 - 09:41 pm: Edit

Princeton's yield is in the mid-70's and Yale's is in the 60's (the percentage of admitted students who choose to enroll). Princeton's alumni giving rate is in the 60-70% range and Yale's is in the 40-50% range. Princeton has been rated above Yale in the USNEWS surveys for many years running. In fact, Princeton has been #1 among ALL universities for three years running. Princeton has more Nobel Prize winners, more endowment per student, a lower student-faculty ratio, a higher student retention and graduation rate, etc, etc. This one is a no-brainer.

By HelloD on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 05:37 am: Edit

I recommend Berklee school of music

By Another Perspective on Monday, December 30, 2002 - 09:16 am: Edit

Assuming your undocumented claims are true, the alumni giving rate is among the least significant of the categories. More revealing would be per capita endowment comparison. A Harvard grad once said she would never donate to her alma mater, despite her great love of the school, because she felt there were too many other worthy causes with greater need. As a reasonable point of view, this should not reflect poorly on any college.

More importantly, the correlation between alumni giving rate (and some of the other categories you cite) and the quality of the actual college experience is negligible, especially at this high level.

By Dubs (Dubs) on Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 04:07 pm: Edit

I know a kid who is going to Princeton for baseball. He took one AP Class and got a personal call from the Dean of Admissions. His GPA was to my knowledge not above 4.0. That goes to show how easy it is for athletes to get into an Ivy League with sports!!! So to all of you sweating out your many AP Classes and hoping for admission into an IVY....too bad you didnt play baseball....

By Anon on Wednesday, January 01, 2003 - 05:32 pm: Edit

Sounds like an urban legend, Dubs.

By Dubs (Dubs) on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 02:51 am: Edit

I kid you not

By Nobodys Fool on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 06:58 am: Edit

Then someone kidded you.

By Dubs (Dubs) on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 02:29 pm: Edit

Well if i talked to him....then how can i be lying....its funny b/c its so outrageous that its hard to believe

By Evah Tinkadat? on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Maybe HE'S lying TO you!

By Vizious (Vizious) on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 07:33 pm: Edit

Division 1 caliber athletes with above 3.5 GPA's and above 1100 SAT's can go to Ivy League's easy.

By Mo on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 11:28 pm: Edit

Prove it, Vizious.

By YALE RULES!!!!!! on Tuesday, January 07, 2003 - 06:11 pm: Edit

< copyrighted content deleted - please don't post verbatim content from other sources. Thanks, Admin>

By Jacobyale06 (Jacobyale06) on Saturday, January 11, 2003 - 02:24 am: Edit

Well, hi everyone.

I started this thread about 8 months ago, and here I am--a friend of a friend brought this thread back to my attention.

As requested, I'm checking in to tell you guys my decision, and also to talk say some more on the issue.

In the end chose Yale, and I've loved every second of it.

The New Haven area is beautiful. I noticed the "sirens all night" mentioned by one poster above, and even though it was only 2-3 sirens per night, it was disconcerting for a while. However, I soon came to realize that those are ambulance sirens and that ambulances come in from all over the place because Yale has a medical school and Yale-New Haven Hospital. The sirens did not, after all, represent high crime within the city itself. And after a few days, the sirens stopped even being a nuisance--I noticed when reading about the sirens on this board that I had long since ceased noticing them. After a week or two, you get used to it, and the sound disappears...I personally think the bells in Harkness Tower are more annoying than the sirens in the street, but then again, I live right across the street from Harkness Tower. More distantly located Yalies love the bells.

The city is also really nice--there's a J Crew, an Urban Outfitters, a GAP, and a bunch of little boutiques and bookstores all within walking distance of campus. There's also a mall which is closed this year for renovation. It used to be "the ghetto mall," but when it reopens it's going to be really nice. I've heard from seniors that New Haven used to be really trashy but that it has improved vastly in the past few years, with help from Yale, and truth be told, the New Haven I see now is so pretty that it amazes me to think this city could have given rise to all those scary, terrible descriptions I had heard. It's true that some areas are still poor or sketchy, but like the last poster said "there's no reason you'd wander over there anyway." Those are mostly residential areas, and everything of interest to college students is in a nice area of town.

From what I've experienced of Yale and what my friend from high school who now goes to Princeton has told me of Princeton, I am totally certain that I made the right choice. James is very happy at Princeton, though. He didn't get into Yale, but I honestly believe that he would have gone to Princeton had he gotten into Yale Princeton is the right school for him. This leads me to think that a choice between Yale and Princeton is a really personal (perhaps even whimsical) one that there isn't a clear answer to.

Personally, though, here are some things that make me like Yale better than Princeton.

1. Academic calendar. Princeton has 4 days off for Thanksgiving and around 10 for spring break. We have 10 for Thanksgiving and 17 for spring break. The trade off? We have a shorter winter break. I like that, though, since the extra days make more difference when added to a short break than they do when added to one that's already long. Speaking of winter break, that leads me to point 2:

2. Exam schedule. Yale students take their first-semester finals before winter break and then go home to relax. Princeton's finals are after winter break, so James brought his books home over break. They do get a week of Reading Period after winter break to study, but term papers are also due during that week, which cuts into study time. For me, the pressure of finals looming over my head would have made my winter break less enjoyable. And, as a Princetonian, whether I actually studied over break or not, I would have felt pressured to, and the thought would make break just less relaxing in general than it was for me as a Yalie.

3. The community. Downtown New Haven basically IS Yale. A lot of the shops, restaurants, and other businesses cater specifically to college students, and some even give discounts to Yale ID-holders. New Haven surprised me because the area around Yale is really like a college town, even though New Haven is actually a city and there is much more to New Haven than the area around Yale. My friends at Princeton report that there are certainly enough businesses at Princeton for students to buy what they need, but that most businesses in the town cater to "rich bankers' wives" since it is more profitable for them to do so. As a result, my friend Tina says, there are a lot of upscale shops which are nice to browse but which sell "authentic persian rugs" and things college students have no interest in buying. Economically, the rich residents of the town simply overpower the student population. I repeat that there are still a good number of businesses in the town of Princeton that cater to students, but at Yale, where the city is poorer, that makes the college students richer in comparison, and a larger economic power. Consequently, almost all the businesses around Yale cater to college students--and it's great. Like I said, New Haven surprised me: it's a college town, or at least the part of New Haven within walking distance of Yale is. Oh, and for students (like me) who interested in community service, the more distant areas of New Haven offer ample opportunities. To tell the truth, some of these areas are places you wouldn't want to go alone at night, but service is usually in the day, and the only big reason you would go there anyway is to do community service. All the businesses and other things of interest to college students are in the really nice area around campus.

4. Residential college system. Yale's 4-year residential college system is amazing; it's cool that 4 years of students all hang out and dine together, united within one residential college. Freshmen usually live in freshman housing and get to meet freshmen in other colleges, but sophomores through seniors all live together in the college. Princeton's system, James reports, is effectively a 2-year res college system with only freshmen and sophomores. Upperclassmen retain their official college affiliations but live outside the college, in separate housing and thus don't bond as much with underclassmen. This is reinforced by the fact that upperclassmen usually eating clubs while underclassmen can only dine in the residential college dining halls. Princeton is currently planning a switch to a 4-year system like Yale's, but at the moment it's still a 2-year system.

Well, those were the big things for me. James loves Princeton, though, and the decision, like I said, is going to be one each person in my former situation will have to make for him or herself--preferrably with advice from current students at both schools, because there is so much useful information that simply can't be found in the printed college literature.

By me on Wednesday, February 19, 2003 - 12:17 am: Edit

How do the workloads at the various ivies (and comparable) compare: in my case specifically Columbia, Brown, Penn Yale Harvard NWern WashUStLouis and Stanford - any of them significantly more or less?

By Bkchic2003 (Bkchic2003) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 10:58 pm: Edit

comparison of workloads would be pretty hard to assess accurately, unless you're a transfer student who went to 2 or more of the schools, i'd say. can depend on what courses you take. it's up to you.