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I'm a Virginia resident applying to mostly Virginia schools (why go out of state when we're lucky to have good state schools?), and I would like some opinions on my current top choices.

I've applied to the University of Virginia and to the College of William & Mary, among other state schools, and I am trying to figure out which of these two is my true number one. My stats are above average for both schools, and while I'm not counting on being admitted into both, lets assume for the purpose of this discussion that both schools offer me an option to attend.

What opinions or observations do you have about either school? If I went to UVA I would most likely go into Computer Engineering (I applied to the engineering department), and if I went to W&M I would try to major in business and minor in computer science.

I have visited both schools which are each beautiful and unique, and I can see myself living comfortably at either campus. UVA is a bit larger than what I was originally looking for in a college (W&M is about the perfect size IMO), but along with a larger size comes more academic options and better post-graduate possibilities.

I would like to go on to graduate school after college; would attending a smaller university such as William & Mary hurt my chances with the top business grad schools (although I believe W&M undergrad business is ranked 37th nationally)?

Any opinions are welcome, I'm simply looking for a few more perspectives on the matter to aid me in my decision. There is of course the possibility that one (or both) of the colleges will choose for me. ;)

By Musefinity (Musefinity) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 12:38 am: Edit

While UVA is beautiful and larger and all that jazz, I'd personally chose William and Mary. UVA gives me sort of a snobby, "I'm the greatest" feel. Where you go to a certain undergrad won't affect your chances any. Some people can't afford good schools so that wouldn't be fair. Besides, William and Mary might be small but it's academics are great.

Plus, John Stewart went to W&M.

By Fiza (Fiza) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 01:35 am: Edit

Heres my opinion:

I'm also from VA and therefore know a lot about each school and the type of students that go there (I have many friends at both institutions). Yes, UVA has many many spoiled ppl. A person that goes there confirmed that. They wear RL and think mommy and daddy will support them forever.

I've always loved WM ppl much better and not just becuz of the previous statement. Everyone I know that goes to WM are the nicest, sweetest, coolest ppl. Our prom king last year is a freshman there and he's a sweetheart. And thats just ONE example. I love love love WM ppl. Theyre everything u want in fellow undergrads. Not that UVA ppl are bad but there arent that many AMAZING ppl at UVA (yes there are some and i dont deny that). Some ppl at UVA are awesome but i think u get the gist of what I'm saying. Again, this is my opinion so dont take it as gospel.

theres a site that ranked how much grad schools liked students from a certain college. #3UVA; #7 W&M. Plus, WM you do MUCH more work for MUCH lower grades. Hence the famous suicide rate. UVA is a party school with sports and beer and all of that. Yes, i know for a fact that WM has frat craziness, but umm less of it i guess. WM itself is a hardcore academics school: think University of Chicago.

I'd personally recommend VT over UVA for engineering but whatever. I guess its too late.
Business at WM is good too. Its not bad at UVA either so consider majoring in that at UVA.

I personally think the bottom line is that you're either perfect for UVA or WM. I dont think you can be a match for both. Read what I said carefully and ask around and you should figure it out yourself.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 09:12 am: Edit

Business at Uva is much better than W & M. They are recruited by many Ibanks which is the ultimate seal of approval. Business grad schools will look at Ibanking experience as a MAJOR plus.

By Wdlynn (Wdlynn) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Thanks for the thoughtful responses.

For a while after I visited both schools last spring, W&M was my number one. While my UVA tour (conducted by a friend of mine) was informative (I had a personal tour of the comp sci and engineering departments), the campus seemed crowded and larger than what I would like (this is why I didn't look at VT - way too big for me). The W&M tour, however, was just amazing. The guide was great and everyone we met was personable and accomodating (my twin brother is also applying to W&M). For a while UVA wasn't even in my top 3.

The reason why UVA is up there for me now is because I've become very interested in the Computer Engineering major. Basically I've been trying to figure out whether I want to be an engineer after college or go into business. As time goes on I seem to be leaning towards W&M and business and hopefully on to grad school afterwards.

I have good friends at both Universities, and while I have heard a few complaints about UVA, I haven't heard anything negative about W&M so far. My girlfriend, who attends JMU, has also been quick to mention that UVA is quite a bit higher than W&M on the snob-o-meter. In addition, a good friend of mine was accepted early to W&M. It seems like W&M is my number one right now...

any more opinions or suggestions?

By Wdlynn (Wdlynn) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 05:50 pm: Edit

anyone?

By Ariesathena (Ariesathena) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 06:06 pm: Edit

Sure... but suggestions of a different sort. The undergrad business degree may not be the best way to go. You are probably going to be much better off with an MBA and an undergrad degree in something else than with the undergrad business degree. As my aunt said, an English degree shows you can write and a philosophy degree shows you can think, but a business degree really does not show much at all. Economics may be a better route, though you can get into an MBA programme with almost any undergrad degree.

That said, if you are seriously looking at grad school, your choice of undergrad and major are important. A high GPA is needed for some types of schools (the GPA is more important than major or school, sadly). So, computer science/engineering would be a bad choice for med or law school. I'm not sure how much it matters for MBA programmes, as they usually want to see at least two or three years of work experience before you apply. Some grad schools really stress writing abilities, so the smaller W&M might help you more with that.

I did engineering undergrad - and it is not for the faint of heart or the unsure. If you do an ABET curriculum, you will have very few electives. Compounding that problem is that you have to take very specific classes at pre-determined times - for example, a chem-e would take thermo for two semesters sophomore year, then fluid mechanics, mass and heat transfer, reactor design, computer mathematics, etc junior year... so there are often conflicts with the electives you want to take.

By Umiami (Umiami) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 06:10 pm: Edit

anyone know about the university of miami? i was admitted early action and want to know about student life, girls, and the business school finance and business law programs? how friendly are the students, etc.?

By Wdlynn (Wdlynn) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 09:42 pm: Edit

Very good post ariesathena, thanks for the input.

I have always been interested in computer science and engineering. I have taught myself several programming languages and have taken classes in three others (Visual Basic, C++, Java). I understand the curriculum for an engineering degree would be rigorous and difficult (and not very customizable). I have gone through the UVA computer engineering curriculum and have found a difficult but interesting course load (they've basically lined up every single class you take from freshman year to senior year).

That being said, however, I am concerned with the prospects of coming out of college and going into the computer engineering field. Jobs seem to be moving rapidly overseas and I feel like I'll come out of college competing for jobs with people who have much more work experience than myself. This is why I'm looking into business.

You make a very interesting point about majoring in business. So a business major is more designed for someone who is not planning on going on to get an MBA than for the person hoping to go to grad school after a few years of work experience? I see your point, and I have started to look into other majors, but besides minoring in CS I'm not sure what I wish to do for a major if I don't major in business.

Do you have any suggestions for other majors, and how do you feel about the engineering job market in four years?

Anyone's suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

By Vadad (Vadad) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Computer engineering is one of the better programs at the UVA e-school. There will always be jobs for the better engineers, but you ought to speak to some of the e-school kids in C'ville (upperclassmen) who are going through this now. Easy to do; just call the admissions office, or heck, call the chairman of the computer engineering department (seriously, I know some of these guys, they would love to hear from you). They will get you access to some of the students in the department. UVA's McIntyre School of Business is wonderful, particularly for the job market afterwards.

Either of these schools are considered absolutely top of the line by any grad school anywhere you want to go. Excel at either and write your own ticket.

As for the "snobbiness" of UVA, well, anywhere you have a large population of well-off kids you are going to find some of that. I went to a professional school at UVA from an incredibly obscure small state school down south. I was intimidated and friendless for about 30 minutes. UVA is big enough that if you try a little, you can find your niche. If the kids you happen to be around seem aloof, you find another bunch of kids.

My own impression--UVA has a heck of a lot more fun potential than W&M (D1 sports, extensive Greek system, all kinds of music, athletic, political, cultural clubs and groups, etc.). W&M offers a more intimate environment and an easier route to a lot of one-on-one contact with your instructors early on. (You're going to have to work for that anywhere you go; W&M is smaller and more undergrad oriented, so it's a little easier there, but not automatic). Academically, grad school-wise, career-wise, you can't possibly go wrong with either one.

My observation on choice of majors--no matter what you do, you're probably going to grad or professional school. Do what you have to do to get into the grad school you want to go to (i.e., take the required pre-med regimen, pre-MBA regimen, etc.). Beyond that, major in whatever interests you. It's about the last four years you'll have free to study whatever you want until after you retire at 35 having made your first billion, so take advantage of it, relax, and have a good time.

UMiami--visited there once years ago. I don't know about the academics, but good Lord man, it's a beautiful campus in Miami. How can you even ask about student life, girls and friendliness? Congratulations on your admission. I predict you're about to have four years of a LOT of fun in the sun. Be careful, wear sunscreen.

By Wdlynn (Wdlynn) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 10:06 am: Edit

Thanks for your thoughts vadad. I am fortunate to have a good friend who recently graduated from the UVA e-school (in electrical engineering I believe). He was the kind of student that worked really, really hard in college. He would come home for summer 'break' and attend classes at a nearby college to accumulate enough credits so when he got into UVA grad school he only needed to attend for one semester before he got his masters.

He was the one who gave my twin brother and I a personal tour of the engineering and computer science departments, and of UVA in general. As you suggest, I should try to talk about the e-school with him the next time I get the opportunity.

While UVA appears to be a fun college to attend, I am concerned that W&M is all work and no play. While some former W&M students claim that the social life is non-existent, others say it was the best four years of their lives. The intense work load does not bother me - I am going to college to work hard. But my idea of a fun saturday night does not involve a study group meeting.

Does anyone have any more insight about either of these schools?

Thanks for your time.

By Ariesathena (Ariesathena) on Saturday, January 24, 2004 - 03:54 pm: Edit

Five years ago, when I started college, comp-e was the hot field - computer engineers couldn't get hired fast enough. Now, many jobs are moving overseas (and the dot-coms crashed). Despite this, there are jobs in computer engin. available which will not move overseas... the defense industry is a great example of this. So, don't go into comp-e with the thought of having a guaranteed job after you graduate (though you seem to know the state of the profession); however, there are some great reasons to major in it. You have an interest in it, you'll have a professional degree at the end of it, and it's a phenomenal background for other jobs. My chem-e friends got job offers from finance firms and stuff, only because they know a lot of software programmes. I imagine that comp-e is similar. You'll graduate with a "real" degree (nothing against other majors!) that shows you are willing to work and in step with modern business (which is very technology-driven).

Downsides to a comp-e degree have been listed above; no need to reiterate. Try computer science as well - there are less requirements than comp-e.

By Wdlynn (Wdlynn) on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 06:58 pm: Edit

Thanks for the insight, ariesathena. Another item of concern I have with engineering is that I seem to find quite a few engineers (specifically computer engineers or comp sci majors) who have been in the profession for ten years or so and have found themselve "burnt out," bored of the profession or just sick of the work. I am becoming more convinced that a major in something more business related and a minor in computer science would give me an opportunity to go on to grad school while allowing me to keep up with technology and maintain an interest in computer science and technology.

On the other hand, as you mention, a major in comp-e or computer science would provide me with a solid degree that shows work and determination. I guess I've got a decision to make, but at least I have a good amount of time to think about it.

Any other ideas, suggestions, or opinion on either of these schools? anyone?

By Macsuile (Macsuile) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 08:39 pm: Edit

Here are some stats on William & Mary:

- Second oldest U.S. university
- Oldest U.S. law school
- Birthplace of Phi Beta Kappa
- Thomas Jefferson's alma mater
- Most selective U.S. public university
- Third highest SAT scores in the South (only Duke and Rice are higher)
- Highest entering student GPAs in Virginia
- Fastest growing university endowment in Virginia
- Best physics, history and biology departments in Virginia

As you can see, William & Mary has an amazing academic tradition. Yes, the grading scale is somewhat deflationary and the course offerings are not as extensive as some other schools, but William & Mary is a school high on tradition which doesn't subscribe to fads where everyone graduates cum laude and there is a supermarket of course offerings. The school is committed to the British university model which is human-scale as opposed to other university models which focus on research and increasing enrollments. W&M may not be for everyone but a degree from there has timeless substance, something you can't find from most other U.S. schools which are constantly trying to reposition or recreate themselves.