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this'll be hard but try to make a list

By Tennisram (Tennisram) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:07 pm: Edit

UVA?
UNC- Chapel Hill?
Do those count

By Coureur (Coureur) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:08 pm: Edit

1. Berkeley
2. UCLA
3. Michigan
4. Univ. of Virginia

By Constellation35 (Constellation35) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:08 pm: Edit

sure, but name more than just the obvious...

By Coureur (Coureur) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:16 pm: Edit

Non-obvious prestige is a contradiction in terms. The point of going for prestige is to be obvious about it. If only a few people know a place is prestigious, it isn't.

If you want good schools instead of prestige, that would be a much longer list.

By Constellation35 (Constellation35) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:19 pm: Edit

What i meant by that is that i want a list with more than just "Berkeley, UVA".

By Voigtrob (Voigtrob) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:39 pm: Edit

Look in the USNews rankings, they put like a star or whatever next to public schools, just follow it down.

By Constellation35 (Constellation35) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:41 pm: Edit

they have no rankings for PRESTIGE as far as I know.............

By Bobmcc (Bobmcc) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:45 pm: Edit

New College of Florida
UNC-Asheville
Mary Washington, Va
William & Mary, Va (though i hope this isn't a surprise)

what Coureur said.....there're the obvious lists (ie US News national unis & lacs) and then there are some excellent, not esp. well known, state schools too. But they'll show up in the US News regional listings.

By Spiffybrownboy (Spiffybrownboy) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 12:48 am: Edit

Ranking prestige is pointless. Everyone will include Berkeley, UVA, UNC-CH, Michigan, UCLA, W&M, Wisconsin, UIUC, GaTech, UCSD, etc. etc. in different orders, so you might as well do what Voigtrob said and follow the list. All the top tier publics are very well known, and some second tier publics (UMD, UT-Austin [is this top tier or second?], UMinn, Rutgers), while they may not be "prestigious", are well-known as top public research schools.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 01:12 am: Edit

Cal Poly SLO (in the west)

By Constellation35 (Constellation35) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 01:23 am: Edit

Spiffybrownboy do you play any sports?

By Cbmac (Cbmac) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 08:19 am: Edit

My lists:

1. Overall academic prestige including professional schools, graduate programs, etc:

Michigan
Berkeley
Texas
UCLA
====
Wisconsin
Ohio State
Minnesota
Illinois

A lot of these have their prestige enhanced by big graduate science and engineering programs.

2. Elite undergrad

Top tier:
UVa
Michigan (Ann Arbor)
Cal Berkeley

Second tier:
UNC (Chapel Hill)
Texas (College Park)
William & Mary
James Madison

Third tier:
Rutgers
Iowa
Georgia (Athens)

Just my opinion. Did I miss anyone obvious?

Why is UVA top on the second list? Its history, its campus, its traditions, the profiles of its students, etc.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 09:10 am: Edit

Wisconsin and UIUC should be in there

By Iamthewalrus (Iamthewalrus) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 09:12 am: Edit

I would also include Penn State. The people I know who went there are extremely proud of their alma mater. They are all die hard lions.

By Jetboy1857 (Jetboy1857) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 07:15 pm: Edit

Yeah, I too think Penn State should be on these lists... and most certainly in the top tier somewhere. PSU isn't quite as strong in lib arts, but has a very good business school for a public school... and when it comes to science and engineering they have some of the best research/grad/and undergrad programs out there. (Something like >20% of all meteorologists in the country have a degree from PSU, which often makes PSU the butt of jokes when they get the forcast wrong!)

As was previously mentioned, alumni following is perhaps second to none... it has the world's largest active alumni society and last year was #1 in the country for the number of alumni that donate money to the school (Harvard was #2, followed by Michigan and Penn).

Finally, in terms of prestegious scholarships for undergrads (a measure of how the students match up with other schools) PSU kills basically all the other schools listed thus far. Hence, for all that I think PSU should be listed too ;-)

By Mels (Mels) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 01:08 am: Edit

bing?

By Collegehelp1234 (Collegehelp1234) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 02:22 am: Edit

Anybody using US NEWS and world report should pay special attention to the first or second column of stats. "PEER RATING" is the equivalent of "presrige" on a 5 point scale anything over 4 is excellent, anything above 3.5 is known nationwide as a good school.

By Andrey1225 (Andrey1225) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 11:16 am: Edit

This is dumb...obviously someone from a certain region of the country is going to have more exposure to a certain group of colleges. There are lists where UCSD and UCSB are conspicously absent in favor of schools I hardly consider comparable to those two. And if you look at the US News, UCSD and UCSB are both in the top 50 along with UCI and UCD so I'm more than sure they're rated high for public schools.

Anyways, I just wanted to say that the reason I find those four UCs more prestigious than say UWisconsin or College of William and Mary is because I'm from California and have had exposure to them....and not so much the public schools on the east coast. Any list compiled will have geographic bias, regardless of intent or opinion.

The list from a Californians perspective:
1. Berk
2. UCLA
3. UVA
4. UMich
5. UNC
6. UCSD
7. UIUC (for engineering science related stuff only)
8. UCSB
9. UT Austin

etc

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 12:16 pm: Edit

UT Austin should be no lower than 6 in that list, followed by UIUC then UCSD and then UCSB.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 06:19 pm: Edit

Wisconsin is better than at least five on that list and can hang toe to toe with UCLA. It is better than UIUC, UNC, and UVA in academics and research.

By Andrey1225 (Andrey1225) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 07:17 pm: Edit

a degree from wisconsin is worth less than one from UCSB on the west coast....and truthfully i didnt even know wisconsin was a competitive school. im sure its much better for premed and engineering but the name isnt recognizable...and they probably dont get half the applicants of UCSB and UCSD (which are #3 and #4 in the country next to LA and Berk). its all regional bias, like i said.

By Constellation35 (Constellation35) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 07:34 pm: Edit

I was hoping to see University of Washington on that list!

By Barrons (Barrons) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 07:54 pm: Edit

"degree from wisconsin is worth less than one from UCSB on the west coast....and truthfully i didnt even know wisconsin was a competitive school"
Typical west coast myopia. You better tell that to the 25,000 Wisconsin alums in California including the heads of several major corporations and a bunch of Hollywood types including the makers of Ghost, Airplane, and many other major hits. Applicants are nothing much--having good graduates is more important. The average SAT at UCSB is 100 points lower than UW. UCLA's is about the same.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 08:11 pm: Edit

Thats funny you bring that up, one of my doctors was a grad of the university of Wisconsin, but did graduate work at UC-Davis. I asked him what UW was like and replied to with, "it was in the middle of cornfields"...University of Wisconsin has a 1300+ average SAT score? not too shabby. I thought like 99 percent of the applicant just took the ACT, midwest..act?

But honestly if you have a choice between U of Wisconsin? or UCSB and you intend on living in the west coast, get the UCSB degree. Your typical employeers on the west coast are going to have a great deal of bias towards west coast schools. I'm with Andrey (i live in California).

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 08:21 pm: Edit

But in the long run it doesn't matter all that much, i suppose. Because if you can get in the door with a UW degree, the only thing that matters is your job performance. I firmly believe Degrees from two top universities won't make much of a difference...outside of getting in the door and as far as job placement goes.

By Andrey1225 (Andrey1225) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 08:24 pm: Edit

Barrons--i did some very minor research on Wisconisn (checked the US News rankings and statistics and Princeton Review) and academically it looks a lot better than UCSB/UCI/UC Dave but about on par with UCSD. But prestige also encompasses desirability, and UCSB is a more desirable school as shown by the number of applicants as compared to Wisconsin. Wisconsin is better academically without a doubt, but on the west coast UCSB is more prestigious IMO....although maybe this is why im not an employer?

By Andrey1225 (Andrey1225) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 08:25 pm: Edit

woops....UC Davis

By Constellation35 (Constellation35) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 09:28 pm: Edit

I know UW-Madison has a great rap and all, but I just don't get good fibes from it for some reason, while on the other hand I have a great feeling about University of Washington. Is University of Washington going to be a good enough school for bio? Should I just forget about my gut feeling and go to UW-Madison?

By Barrons (Barrons) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 09:36 pm: Edit

The same 40,000 applicats apply to all the UC schools with their common application system. It is really a VERY misleading number--how many of them have UCSB as their top choice?? Madison gets over 20,000 specific applications and this is in a state 1/8th the size of California. Your new governor has a UW degree :-) as does the VP.

The UW campus is great and it is in a real college town with bigtime college sports--something missing at UCSB abd UCSD which is a much better school than UCSB. UW is #2 in the US in overall research funding and #1 in private fundraising of all state schools. It really is a cool place and there are no cornfields anywhere near the campus.

Here's a post from an Illinois student on Studentsreview.
I think that in terms of academics, U of I is vastly overrated. With the notable exception of the college of engineering, Illinois is really a regional university that doesn't have the nationwide reputation other large midwestern universities such as Wisconsin and Michigan have. For one, there is a tremendous disparity in the quality of departments and the type of students they tend to attract, making many students' experiences a tale of their respective college. The Engineering school is MILES ahead of the other colleges in every regard: the quality of the faculty, students, and resources are superb.
There are a handful of good departments outside of engineering, such as Psychology and Biology, but many of the liberal arts departments (especially English and Speech Com) are atrocious. Some of these departments' quality of instruction seemed to be significantly worse than high school. For example, once I even submitted _exactly_ the same paper I wrote junior year of high school (for which I received a B-) for an English Lit class sophomore year at U of I , and received an A for it. Attempting to help some of my classmates was an exercise in frustration.
It was a completely different story for Engineering courses I took. Students were held to a much higher standard, and the pace of instruction and difficulty of the material was not even remotely comparable. Business courses I took were very mixed, but for the most part moderately difficult with some exceptions.
The U of I campus is, when compared to other Big Ten universities, a wasteland. It is generally fairly well-maintained, but the surrounding blue-collar community of Champaign-Urbana is a decrepit rust-belt town with nothing to offer students. Central Illinois is simply the ugliest place I have ever been in the world (having been to 6 continents), with impossibly flat, treeless landscapes of soybean farms to the horizon in every direction. Despite the presence of 40,000 students, the town has zero decent restaurants (there are a handful of predictable chain restaurants in a strip-mall area on the edge of town), one coffee shop, one independent record store, a handful of gas stations, no decent bookstores near campus, and about a dozen bars filled with Bud-drinking frat types. I can understand how the university has difficulty attracting qualified faculty members, because in comparison to Madison, Ann Arbor, or Bloomington (Ind.), there's virtually nothing to do.
But the biggest problem I have with the university is its students. More than 90% are from Illinois, especially from the Chicago suburbs, and it was literally a culture shock for me (I am from the east coast). In general they are the most insular, narrow-minded group of people I had ever met. Some people I met at school had never been outside the state. The student body was highly segregated by race, class, and gender (probably due to the large Greek system).
I was totally unprepared for how powerful the "midwestern mentality" was. No one else seemed to be interested in music that wasn't on MTV, independent movies, or anything remotely cultural. The problem with this mindset is that most of the students, after graduation, would go back to Chicago or St. Louis. So any potential networking advantages you would retain as an alumnae are almost completely confined to those areas. Illinois does not have as strong a reputation on the east and west coasts as a result (except for Silicon Valley), particularly when compared to other big ten schools. I suspect that this is because there are very few students from New York City, and relatively few alumni there (U. of Wisconsin and Michigan have very large NY contigents), so as a result the national media tends to overlook Illinois.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 09:47 pm: Edit

Santa Barbara is a pretty sweet city. Maybe the best location in the world. Don't tell me you'd rather spend four years in Madison over Santa Barbara. But I guess, whatever floats your boat. It's not like i'm going to get into UCSB anyways....it'll still remain in my dreams nonetheless.

By Constellation35 (Constellation35) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 09:54 pm: Edit

I wanted to go to UCSB or UC Davis badly, too bad it's near impossible to get in from out-of-state.:-/

I know UW-Madison has a great rap and all, but I just don't get good fibes from it for some reason, while on the other hand I have a great feeling about University of Washington. Is University of Washington going to be a good enough school for bio? Should I just forget about my gut feeling and go to UW-Madison?

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 11:04 pm: Edit

Do you like rain or snow?

By Coureur (Coureur) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 11:25 pm: Edit

While prestige by itself is a pretty shallow concept, if you have to keep arguing and asserting that some school is prestigious, it isn't.

You can be well-known without being prestigious, but you can't be prestigious without being well-known. If a school really is prestigious, people will already know about it - being well-known is an important part of prestige.

Now true excellence is another matter. You can certainly be excellent without being well-known, but excellence is not the same thing as prestige.

By Constellation35 (Constellation35) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 11:51 pm: Edit

I'm only basing a tiny bit of my decision on prestige, but I just wanted to see how University of Washington was prestige-wise.

Will I be able to get into a really good grad school if I do well at University of Washington?

---------------

Savedbythebell - I've been asked that same question many times!

Either is fine.

By Voigtrob (Voigtrob) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 12:12 am: Edit

You'll be able to get into a really good grad school if you do really well anywhere decent. ;)

By Kub86 (Kub86) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 12:23 am: Edit

I was wondering the same thing. I'm going to go to the UW Seattle and I rarely see anything about that school. Is it not as good as other public schools or something? Am I not aware of something about this school? Maybe I've only been reading the good stuff on their brochures.

Honestly, the main reasons why I'm attending the UW, is because it's in Seattle - I gotta escape the suburbs! - and it's a huge campus with tons of classes. I've always assumed it had a good reputation, but everyone's talking about Michigan, Virginia, or even Wisconsin....what about UW Seattle?

By Barrons (Barrons) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 10:00 am: Edit

I lived in Seattle for several years. Nice city in some ways and the weather can be a PITA. Udub is a very good school in biosciences--as good as any probably and you can do much worse than to go to grad school there also. The campus is empty and dead on weekends though and most kids are locals.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 10:04 am: Edit

UCSB is NOT in SB for one thing. It has a dreary little area near campus known as Isle Vista where most kids spend most of their time. SB itself is very nice but most things there are beyond a student's budget. It is also heavily populated with rich old folks. Madison is much more of a college town with everything catering to students within a short walk--no need for a car.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 01:05 pm: Edit

SB = 5 minute by bus. Isla Vista is a "dreary" little area on the BEACH. It's renowned for its crazy party life, my sister lived off on/off campus, it's all up to the person and how much they want to party. State street (in Santa Barbara) on a friday night isn't heavily populated by rich old folks. You'll find more of a diversity from just straight college students, but nonetheless state street in Santa Barbara has an amazing nightlife, filled with youths.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 01:38 pm: Edit

Yes a beach full of tar and smelling of oil from the numerous offshore drilling platforms. Then there is the dense fog from December until July. Yes they do party there but it is the second tier of UC schools and no match for Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and a bunch of other top state schools outside California. And the bus must be going 100 mph as it takes me at least 10 minutes to drive it in a fast car without stops.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 03:07 pm: Edit

The fog disappears at about noon. Imagine bonfires on the beach at night, IV doesn't have the best beaches, but goleta has some pretty nice beaches if you know where to look, hardly any tar to be found on these nice beaches. No snow, warm weather, good looking girls. Besides Santa Barbara has some of the worlds best beaches within a 10-15 minute drive?. Second Tier, you're making it sound bad, second tier behind Berkeley and UCLA, some of the best publics in the nation.

Doesn't that make Michigan, Illinois and Wisconsin seem enticing? Cold weather, snow, no beaches.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 03:11 pm: Edit

In seattle today it is 20deg and we don't even have snow!

I think U of H is sounding pretty good to me right now.

By Mafmaf22 (Mafmaf22) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 04:03 pm: Edit

on the east coast UW_Madison is pretty prestigous with employers as many of my dads friends and relatives said that i would be extremely well-off if i go there and how excellent a school it is. These are from some top-level people in big corporations and entrepreneurs and lawyers on the east coast, so UW-mad has prett good prestige throughout a large portion of the country

By Becks777 (Becks777) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 05:09 pm: Edit

hmmm...no snow boarding, skiing...yhat must suck

And the weather is bad really only for 2-3 months, and even during these 3 months, i m out doors most of the time. So i guess it just takes little time to get used to it and then its no big deal. And spring and fall over here r just absolutely spectacular. My sister came from cali in september and she absolutely fell in love with the place

Haha..actually i m in love with both midwest and california-cali mainly for its diversity ( and yeah those beaches). Both places have thier own charm and u can have fun at either of them

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 05:24 pm: Edit

Tahoe is within a days drive and big bear. So there are snowboarding/skiing possibilities in "Cali". Lots of snow in Tahoe, when I was there over the break. Tons of powder. About the weather, I just like a nice mild climate where I can wear sandles everyday of the year. This is just my preference.

Without out a doubt, UW-Madison has been proven to be an excellent school academically, and is seemingly very presitigious everywhere outside of the west coast. I suppose some would rather live in Madison than Santa Barbara, why still boggles me, but you know it really just comes down to what you prefer. I'm used to the Cali climate and i like it a great deal, so much I never want to leave it.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 05:53 pm: Edit

What does a house cost in SB? $700,000 to a million at least. In Madison you can get a nice one for $200K. The winter is cold but you do have a nice warm summer too. It does not snow year round contrary what many in Cali would believe. Also the campus is on two large lakes with several beaches. You should take the tour.

www.news.wisc.edu/welcome/odyssey/ Campus/tourstart.html

By Celebrian23 (Celebrian23) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 05:55 pm: Edit

OSU!!!!! oh course im biased though

By Coureur (Coureur) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 07:28 pm: Edit

Hey, if Barrons or anyone else prefers Wisconsin to California I say great. Somebody has to live in Wisconsin, and California is too crowded already. It takes all kinds to populate the country.

By Constellation35 (Constellation35) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 08:08 pm: Edit

Barrons sorry so bother you but please tell me everything you can about Seattle and U of Washington! I should have visited it.

By Dstark (Dstark) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 08:28 pm: Edit

My daughter visited the school and liked it very much. I don't know where she will end up. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001829923_uwcampaign05m0.html
Good story.

By Everet (Everet) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 08:28 pm: Edit

I live in washington state. University of Washington is a huge school. It has many resources. It's known for it's research programs. Also it's graduate medical school is tops it can be compared to Harvard or better. About 38000-40000 students attend university of Washington. Also it's in a great location Seattle. Plus the football team the Huskies are pretty ok they have a great rivalry with the Washington State University

By Barrons (Barrons) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:18 am: Edit

The strength of U Wash is in the sciences and computers. The liberal arts are secondary but still pretty good with strong areas in writing and drama. Very nice campus but it tends to be somewhat of a commuter school and is pretty dead on weekends except for the frats. Most kids are local and few are from out of state. The nearby shopping area is pretty rundown with many homeless kids making it uncomfortable for some. Downtown Seattle is a short bus ride away and many kids seem to have jobs. A good school for the money and the ticket to a good job in Seattle.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 01:28 pm: Edit

Barrons, you are flat wrong about the same 40,000 students applying to all the UC schools. That is *not* the total number of unique applicants. I don't know that I can get that number very quickly but I'm pretty sure it's around the 200,000 mark. Many students apply to multiple schools; many apply to one or two...and it's not always in "prestige" order.

As state school systems go, I'll note that California is the only state with four public schools in the AAU.

By Kluge (Kluge) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 03:55 pm: Edit

77,000 distinct freshman applicants and 23,000 distinct transfer applicants to UC in 2003. 37,000 freshman apps to UCSB. Average # of campuses applied to by each applicant is about 3. Nice thing about state schools - this stuff is all public record.
But I agree with Barrons - Santa Barbara is a veritable hellhole. No one in his or her right mind would go there. Barrons didn't even mention the sharks and earthquakes. All you midwest and east coast people, hear me? Hellhole. Honest. Go to Wisconsin. We'll all sleep better.

By Kkgirl06 (Kkgirl06) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 04:55 pm: Edit

US News ranks the top public schools: "The Top 50 Public Nat'l Universities"

UC Berkeley
U of Virginia
U of Michigan-Ann Arbor
UCLA
UNC-Chapel Hill
William and Mary
UC San Diego
U of Wisconsin-Madison
Georgia Tech
U of Illinois-Champaign
UC Davis
UC Irvine
UC Santa Barbara
U of Washington
Penn State-University Park
U of Florida
U of Maryland-College Park
U of Texas-Austin
U of Iowa
Purdue-West Lafayette
U of Georgia
Ohio State-Columbus
Rutgers-New Brunswick
U of Minnesota-Twin Cities
Miami U (OH)
U of Connecticut
Indiana U-Bloomington
Texas A&M-College Station
UC Santa Cruz
U of Pittsburgh
Michigan State University
U of Missouri-Columbia
Virginia Tech
Clemson
SUNY-Binghampton
SUNY-Col. of Environ. Sci, and Forestry
U of Colorado-Boulder
N.C. State-Raleigh
UC Riverside
Iowa State U
U of Mass-Amherst
U of Vermont
Auburn
U of Kansas
U of New Hampshire
U of Tennessee
Michigan Technological U
U of Alabama
U of Arizona
Washington State U

By Becks777 (Becks777) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 05:54 pm: Edit

Haha...my sister came from the bay area to visit me here in chicago and she was.....no kidding.....amazed to see middle class people live in such spectacular houses everwhere in the suburbs. And shes going to speend thrice the amount of money to buy something which can be barely called a house over here

By Barrons (Barrons) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 06:57 pm: Edit

I spent 5 years in Thousand Oaks, CA and liked it. Nothing wrong with SB but it is not a real college town and it is just not that great a school. Another interesting fact is the low SAT scores of many of those top 5% of class students in Cali.
Also I don't live in Wisconsin--Virginia actually.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 07:04 pm: Edit

Thousand Oaks is pretty nice I think. Isn't that about an hour outside of Santa Barbara?

By Barrons (Barrons) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 09:34 pm: Edit

Yes, and just 20 minutes to Malibu.

By Hnbui (Hnbui) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 10:32 pm: Edit

This may be off topic but...


Louisiana State University. I live in louisiana and personaly it's a "good" school. They are upping their min. requirements every year. It wouldn't surprise me if in the next ten years it become a moderatly hard to get in school with a prestiguous name.

By Becks777 (Becks777) on Tuesday, January 06, 2004 - 10:40 pm: Edit

haha...maybe i will consider it for my som/daughter in the next 10 years..no wait 10 is too less...will it be a respectable school in the next 20 years..i would surely consider it for my child then --but right now it is off my list

By Hnbui (Hnbui) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 01:32 am: Edit

yea...

By Sammgc68 (Sammgc68) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 05:49 pm: Edit

It's not the most well-known in the general populace, but the New College of Florida. I've heard from several sources that its students have the highest rate of acceptance into grad school of any public. Of course, there are only 700ish students, but still, it's pretty impressive. Not to mention Sarasota is one of, if not the best small cities in America. Fun in the sun, oh yeah

By Lmsgoodgirl (Lmsgoodgirl) on Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 11:11 pm: Edit

Just to add a new dimension into the mix...take a look at Cornell University which is both a state and a private school (through a confusing twist of connections). Its also Ivy league...talk about prestige...so if you play it right you get an ivy league education for state tuition

By Foreignboy (Foreignboy) on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 10:22 am: Edit

UCLA and UCB

By Brihay (Brihay) on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 06:16 pm: Edit

Hey Andrey

How about the business school @ Wisconsin? It's in the top 15 in the nation...I'm pretty sure that's classified as competitve. Do your research then come back to the boards.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 02:47 pm: Edit

Brihay, when it comes to prestige, I wouldn't rank the university of Wisconsin very highly and this is what this threat is about. Rarely anyone where i'm from in California, has even heard of it.

By Brihay (Brihay) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Savedbythebell-
Just because people from California haven't heard of it doesn't mean it isn't a great school. I'm sure there are a lot of people in my state that don't know UC San Diego is a good school. It just proves how ignorant and uninformed you are about colleges, since you should be looking at schools not for their name but for what they have to offer. Secondly, your one opinion does not secure the fact that you think Madison isn't prestigious...maybe you should seek out other opinions. And who gives a •••• about prestige? Go somewhere you love that offers you a good education, and don't get all wrapped up in names like Berkley and Harvard. Third, it all depends on what you want to do. Someone who graduates from Madison with a business degree is probably going to be more considered for a place in a good business graduate school than someone coming from Berkely.

By Becks777 (Becks777) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 03:42 pm: Edit

Brihay, Savedbythebell is trying to say the same thing. He isnt saying that UW is not a good school. Hes just saying that its not as popular on the west coast as it is in the midwest- and thats true

By Barrons (Barrons) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 04:03 pm: Edit

From living in California I know that people there have virtually NO idea about anything outside of California. It is the most myopic state in the US--maybe along with Texas.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 04:06 pm: Edit

What you said was very logical Brihay. I agree with you. Becks was correct. Although, from what I hear, a degree at the Berkeley HAAS School of Business as an undergrad is pretty good. Infact, isn't the number 1 public business school in the nation? By the way, as far as those rankings go, they're pretty much worthless. The University of Arizona is in the top 20 in the nation for Business schools, wouldn't you classify that as competitive? I don't believe it is. Considering I got in with a 3.3 GPA.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 04:07 pm: Edit

That's interesting Barrons, because about half of my class will go out of state for college.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 08:15 pm: Edit

That is a very unique school. On average less than 20% of people in Cali go away to college. Many of those were UC rejects. Arizona and Oregon are full of them.
As far as Arizona's ranking is concerned, there is not a direct correlation between overall selectivity and the quality of the business school faculty and services. Also many state business schools only take the top students after two years of college classes.

This is the case at Michigan, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Virginia and other top schools where you need a 3.25 to a 3.5 in your first two years to get into the school of business.

By Andrey1225 (Andrey1225) on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 10:47 pm: Edit

Brihay--

This post doesn't require research. It's merely a prestige ranking--which only measures what someone already knows about schools. If I had even known that UWisc was a decent school or had any intention of attending it I might have researched it...but, in truth, I didn't even know of the school's high academic ranking until it was posted on this site. In no way do I deny that UWisc's business school is "top 15 in the nation" and that it's "competitive"....that wasn't the point of my comments. I only stated that it doesn't have as much prestige on the west coast as UCSB....I'm sure all the West Coast kids posting on this site can verify that. And it's fairly easy to prove--simply go to my run-of-the-mill high school in south Orange County (30 minutes from Disneyland) and take a poll of the 600 seniors at the school with a simple question like "which do YOU think is more prestigious: UCSB or University of Wisconsin?" and i guarantee that UCSB will win out by far. A question like "How competitive is University of Wisconsin" would probably yield answers portraying it as uncompetitive.

My original point was that state schools (outside the top 5) are subject to regional bias.....which is only being shown true by this thread.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 09:18 am: Edit

That says more about Orange County than anything else. Actually when I lived in California and then Seattle, UCSB was thought of as the low end of the UC's and had no prestige. I really doubt that has changed much as my UCLA grad friend is sending his daughter there after she was rejected at the better UC's.

By Brihay (Brihay) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 02:56 pm: Edit

gotcha now andrey- I'm glad to hear that you recognize that "prestige" and "good school" don't necessarily correlate.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 04:49 pm: Edit

I've known of UWisc as a decent school since I was in high school. I wouldn't put it in the same category as UCB, UCLA, UVa, UMich, and UNC. The next grouping down, yes.

UCSB will be in the middle of the UC pack, clearly after UCB, UCLA, and UCSD, clearly ahead of UCR, UCSC, and UCI. UCSB vs. UCD, depends on what department you're interested in.

Oddly enough, as a prospective employer, I'd have the same interest in ferreting out the background of a UWisc grad as a UoArizona grad: did you study, party, or both?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 05:02 pm: Edit

Here on the east coast UWisc carries clout for some reason. That and UMich are really two of few public schools not on the east coast that are looked upon as great schools. I see them on every prep school college list. The UCs, out side of Berkely and LA are not well known (SantaCruz for my generation does have a following though not for academics) . I know I have heard little about the UCs and their specialties though I know that the system is outstanding. I've learned more from this website about Ca schools than I have ever known.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 06:31 pm: Edit

When Jews were restricted from enrolling at some Ivy schools due to quotas, the UW welcomed them. Same for Jewish profs from Europe and the US. It has always been a bastion of true liberal thought and academic freedom-even in the darkest days of the 50's. It also has more academic power than many of schools mentioned such as UVa and UNC.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 07:53 pm: Edit

Edited

By Mulan (Mulan) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 02:25 am: Edit

the ridiculous thing about this post is that it was started as a measure of "prestige"

how anyone measures that accurately is a mystery to me. i live in santa barbara, and it is certainly not filled only with "rich old people", not by any stretch of the imagination. and learn to spell ISLA VISTA, barrons- for someone who has lived in california, you sure are bad at basic spanish. not to be offensive in any manner, but you appear to be of the old-fashioned train of thought: your comment, "From living in California I know that people there have virtually NO idea about anything outside of California" , is quite nonsensical. anything outside of california? anything? you sure bout that?

i however, have never heard about u-wisc until reading this thread. this is not because i've never heard of "anything outside of california." in fact, i'm going to school in connecticut next year. but if the question is prestige... uwisc, these days, is simply not high on the national radar, or at least on the west coast.

forgive me if that seems biased or offensive, but i've asked several friends and NO ONE has ever considered it a school to apply to, let alone a school known for its "prestige"

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 05:30 am: Edit

Thank you, need we say more Barrons. My sister also lives in Santa Barbara..off of state street, across from a golf course.

By May_1 (May_1) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 05:47 am: Edit

>>i however, have never heard about u-wisc until reading this thread. this is not because i've never heard of "anything outside of california." in fact, i'm going to school in connecticut next year. <<


Mulan, if that school in CT begins with a Y and ends with a frothy drink, then I think someone's knowledge of that school has less to with an atttempt to broaden horizons outside of one's state than with common knowledge of a certain elite school.

By Collegeguy (Collegeguy) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 06:33 am: Edit

Internationally, Berkeley takes the cake. By a long shot.

Domestically, there's plenty that have been mentioned - UNC, UMich, UCLA, UVA (not in that order).

By Barrons (Barrons) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 09:46 am: Edit

Mulan,

Thanks for the Spanish spelling lesson. That is soooo germane.
" I have never heard of the University of Wisconsin"
Have you heard of stem cells? Do you read Time Magazine or the NY Times? The UW holds the rights to most stem cells in the US and the professor who was able to isolate them was on the cover of Time. Maybe you need education in who is actually doing what in research these days. The UW is #2 in the US of all schools public and private.

Perhaps you should take a look at the US News grad department rankings and see how often UW is listed compared with UCSB, Uva, UNC--you would learn something.

Your ignorance does not make your assertion true.

As to SB as a retirement hub--here's a little thing I found in the Insider's Guide to Retirement

When people dream of retirement, they often envision a comfortable home in a warm, dry climate, a town or area with plenty of social, recreational and cultural opportunities, excellent health care, friendly people and beautiful scenery in which to spend the latter decades of life. Santa Barbara, by all accounts, matches this dream as an ideal retirement community.

For over a century, countless seniors from around the United States and, indeed, the world have packed their belongings lock, stock and barrel and moved to Paradise. Seniors abound here, and our over-50 crowd makes its presence known everywhere. They play a major role in politics, the arts and culture scene and Adult Education classes.

Senior volunteers serve as docents at the museums, the zoo, the Botanic Garden and other attractions; as helpers at our numerous service agencies; as tutors, teachers, guides and mentors to younger Santa Barbarans.

Our seniors stay active as long as possible, in all senses of the word. Folks from age 50 to 100 regularly attend fitness classes -- it's not unusual to see a grandmother "crunching abs" right next to a 20-year-old. They walk, jog, play tennis and golf, attend concerts, travel, study and read. And when seniors are no longer able to venture out as much as they'd like, Santa Barbara makes great efforts to bring services and activities to senior residences throughout the community.

By Mulan (Mulan) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 12:59 pm: Edit

ok. so there are seniors in existence in santa barbara. no kidding.

yet they do not make up the primary social base of the town, especially for college students. ASK ANYONE who attends either UCSB or SBCC. a night on the town is not overrun by senior citizens. that, if i'm not mistaken, is what i was responding to.

i didn't say UWisc was a bad school. i'm sure, as your rankings point out, that it's an excellent instution of higher education. prestige is almost impossible to gauge. UCSB is most likely not as "prestigious." i think it's odd, however, when you try to dissuade prospective UCSB students by mistakenly identifying the social atmosphere for collegiate life in this town.

and i'm interested in hearing where you found this fact: "Another interesting fact is the low SAT scores of many of those top 5% of class students in Cali."

By Barrons (Barrons) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 01:45 pm: Edit

Look at the data from all the UC campuses. It is surprising that some campuses claim over 90% of students in the top 10% but have an average SAT under 1200. For example UCI 96% in top 10th with an average SAT of 1180, UCD 95% in top 10% average SAT 1185, UCR 94% in top 10% 1065 SAT, UCSB 95% in top 10% 1170.

Compare that to some of the Big 10 schools where only 50-60% of kids are in the top 10% but the average SAT is 1260 to around 1300. It just seems out of sync. SB is a nice city and has many fine restaurants and such--I just like to tweak Californians a little because they are very limited--in general--in their knowledge of the rest of the US. Most middle class people in the rest of the US have been to California but I'd bet a much lower percentage of Californians have been to the Midwest.
BTW my two roommates at UW were from SLO and Claremont.

Now here is your homework--read this--it loads slowly but has tons of facts on schools

http://thecenter.ufl.edu/research2003.html

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 07:16 pm: Edit

As I said in an earlier post, here in the East, UWisc is considered on level with UMich. But the way the weather has been these days, I would lean towards Santa Barbara. Brrr it is freezing here and UWisc would be even colder. But in the NY investment banking job market or medical fields, UWisc gets a heads up.

By I1lmatics (I1lmatics) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 07:58 pm: Edit

Maryland should be top 10 easily, especially for business

By Asknot11 (Asknot11) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 09:20 pm: Edit

Is the university of Illinois considered prestigious anywhere outside of the midwest?

By Mulan (Mulan) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:19 pm: Edit

UIUC is, as far as engineering goes,

but according to the above posts i'm too ignorant to know about any others! thus, they're probably all VERY PRESTIGIOUS but i am just a dumb californian kid who doesn't know.

By Constellation35 (Constellation35) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:25 pm: Edit

"Udub is a very good school in biosciences--as good as any probably and you can do much worse than to go to grad school there also."

I never understood the last part of that sentence...it's been bothering me...someone please explain.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:32 pm: Edit

i'm assuming they mean UDUB has an excellent grad. school too.

By Constellation35 (Constellation35) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:33 pm: Edit

Thanks, that's what I thought too. Just wanted to be sure.

By Najy (Najy) on Monday, January 19, 2004 - 10:34 pm: Edit

UVA is the s**t. W&M is the s**t too. Virginia has it going on in the education dept.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 08:49 am: Edit

Mulan, did you complete your homework??

Here's another thing I recently came across

Top Research Universities

Elsewhere in the Report I suggest that students consider the overall resources and quality of universities they are considering attending. Although philosophy is a specialized enough field that a strong philosophy program is reason enough to attend a particular school, many students may find it helpful to have some perspective on what schools have to offer beyond philosophy. Accordingly, I include a general ranking of leading research universities in the United States, as measured by the breadth and depth of academic quality.

Because the 1995 National Research Council study (based on 1992-93 surveys) is out-of-date, I rely exclusively on the most current U.S. News academic reputation surveys (conducted between 1999 and 2001) for the major fields of professional and academic study (not to be confused with the U.S. News rankings of professional schools, which weigh a variety of irrelevant factors in addition to academic reputation). Those core fields are: Law, Medicine, Biology, Chemistry, Computer Science, Geology, Applied and Theoretical Mathematics, Physics, Economics, Engineering, English, History, Philosophy, Political Science, Psychology, Sociology. For Philosophy, obviously, the rankings relied upon were those in this Report. Medical schools only counted if on the same campus as the research university (an issue, e.g., for Cornell and Texas).

The scores emphasize depth of quality over breadth, though breadth counts too. For each program in the top 5, a school received four points; for each additional program in the top 10, a school received three points; for each additional program in the top 15, a school received two points; and for each additional program in the top 25, a school received 1 point.

Although the disciplines ranked are not comprehensive (e.g., Astronomy, Classics and Anthropology were not ranked), it is surely a safe assumption that schools that perform well based on the large number of fields actually surveyed are generally strong research universities across the boards. The resulting point total thus gives us a measure of research universities by the breadth and depth of academic quality. The raw score appears in parentheses, followed by the number of programs in the top five, ten, fifteen, and twenty-five.


The Top 25 Research Universities in the U.S., 2002-2003 based on the depth and breadth of academic quality of programs
# of programs in
top 5 top 10 top 15 top 25
1. Stanford University (66) 15 2 0 0
2. University of California, Berkeley (59) 12 3 1 0
3. Harvard University (54) 9 5 0 3
4. University of Michigan, Ann Arbor (49) 7 3 5 2
5. Princeton University (48) 6 6 3 0
6. Massachusetts Institute of Technology (43) 9 1 2 0
7. Columbia University (40) 3 5 6 1
7. Yale University (40) 5 4 2 5
9. University of Chicago (39) 5 4 2 3
10. Cornell University (38) 0 8 6 2
11. University of California, Los Angeles (37) 1 5 7 4
12. University of Wisconsin, Madison (34) 1 5 5 5
13. California Institute of Technology (33) 6 2 1 0
14. University of Texas, Austin (26) 0 2 7 6
15. University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign (24) 3 2 0 7
16. University of Pennsylvania (23) 0 4 2 6
17. Johns Hopkins University (22) 2 2 2 4
18. Duke University (21) 1 2 3 5
18. Northwestern University (21) 0 2 5 5
20. University of Minnesota, Twin Cities (19) 1 1 2 8
21. New York University (18) 2 2 0 4
22. University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (17) 1 0 4 5
23. University of California, San Diego (16) 0 1 2 9
23. University of Washington, Seattle (16) 0 2 1 8
25. Brown University (14) 1 0 3 4

http://www.philosophicalgourmet.com/topresearch.htm

By Najy (Najy) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 03:13 pm: Edit

US News is widely believed to be a composite list of the nations "best", but anyone with any knowledge of education knows that the lists are essentially BS.

By Kluge (Kluge) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 04:06 pm: Edit

Barrons: I hate to interrupt a perfectly good pi$$ing match, but I wanted to comment on your observation:

"Look at the data from all the UC campuses. It is surprising that some campuses claim over 90% of students in the top 10% but have an average SAT under 1200. For example UCI 96% in top 10th with an average SAT of 1180, UCD 95% in top 10% average SAT 1185, UCR 94% in top 10% 1065 SAT, UCSB 95% in top 10% 1170. ... Compare that to some of the Big 10 schools where only 50-60% of kids are in the top 10% but the average SAT is 1260 to around 1300. It just seems out of sync."

It seemed odd to me, too, so I looked into it. This is what I came up with:
Per CB, the average SAT1 for California high school students in the top 10% of their class was V571 M603 - or 1171 total. So it makes sense that a UC with 90%+ top 10% students would have an average SAT around that figure.
The out of sync part appears to come from the Big 10. Remember, the SAT isn't big in the midwest - fewer than 1500 Wisconsin students took it. So SAT scores are statistically unreliable, as they are skewed by students looking elsewhere (mostly up.) So look at the average ACT scores instead. PR says UW (Madison) has an average ACT of 28 - but that's ony true in engineering. Campuswide the average ACT in 2002 was 27.2 - which corresponds to about a 1220 SAT. Digging into the study of UW Madison admissions (again, 2002) reveals a bias towards test scores over gpa. (75% of applicants with a 27 to 29 on their ACT but who were only in the 70 - 80% rank in high school were admitted. Virtually all applicants above a 29 were.) So with UC's avowed preference for gpa and SAT2 over SAT1 (or ACT) you'd expect that the UC admits would trend a little more toward the top 10% gpas and trend a little lower on the SAT's compared to a Big 10 school - which is in fact what you get.
And don't take the "averages" reported in various places too uncritically. The Moores report on UC Berkeley admissions tallies the students admitted there in minute detail. PR says the average SAT of Berkeley freshmen is 1300, but 56% of the enrolled freshmen in 2002 had SAT scores over that number...

P.S. Thank you for inspiring me to look into this. It was interesting to look at the "marketing" numbers for these schools.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 08:55 pm: Edit

Another interesting piece of knowledge about UW- madison...71% of applicants were admitted. I'll let that speak for itself.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 09:44 am: Edit

I think you are having trouble with all those numbers. The admit rate for UW in 2002 was 60%.(US NEWS) 71% was the number for the percentage of students submitting an ACT score. Even if it were 71%, I'd rather have 71% of a good appicant pool than 25% of a poor one. Obviously as a much smaller state, Wisconsin has only a relatively small number of students graduating each year. They also have a tradition of trying to accomodate as many students as possible so they have increased the class from the low 4000's to the mid 5000's over the last 15 years. They strive to avoid being elitist in things like admissions--it's a midwest populism thing.

Also are we talking about the quality of the school or the students? The UC's take 1000's of CC transfers every year--what were their SAT scores like?? BTW UCLA has an average ACT of 26. What does that mean?

By Becks777 (Becks777) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Hey savedthebell, i think you r taking it too far!. I agreed with you when you said wisconsin is not that popular in california than UCSB is. But if ur trying to prove that its not a good school overall- you are hugely mistaken. Its far more better than all UCs except for cal and UCLA

By Kluge (Kluge) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 07:55 pm: Edit

"BTW UCLA has an average ACT of 26. What does that mean?"
My guess is that it means two things:
1.) Just as SATs are uncommon in Wisconsin, ACTs are not as prevalent in California. So I'd expect that the ACT scores would be skewed relative to the SAT's (And they are - PR says 26 ACT and 1264 SAT averages at UCLA, a fairly significant variance from the accepted conversion rate of ACT 26 ~= 1170 - 1200.)
2.) For some reason, PR reports low average scores for the UC's, as I determined from a review of the Berkeley numbers. I suspect the variance is due to UC's method of reporting rather than PR. It is a little interesting to note that in this one small slice of the university universe it appears that PR slightly inflated UW's freshman test scores and slightly deflated UC's. (But only a little.)

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 08:49 pm: Edit

Go on yahoo, and look at the admit rate. 71 percent.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Wednesday, January 21, 2004 - 08:53 pm: Edit

I think percentage rates have to do with prestige and students desires to go there. It has nothing to do with the quality of a school neccessarily. I just think the California weather is much more appealing, thus making the UC's more desirable schools for the shallow people who find location more important than overall quality (me ). But I mean with the UC's you're still getting a fine education, so it's not like your missing out on all that much education wise than at a school like UW.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 09:40 am: Edit

Yahoo on colleges?? Maybe they forgot to update it from years ago. I have two sources--US News and the UW website--go look at what is called the common data set--most public schools post it.
Everything else is true--one can bet a good education at pretty much any UC campus. Some of them lack that bigtime college experience (football-ideal college town, etc.) but that is an individual choice.

http://wiscinfo.doit.wisc.edu/obpa/CDS_USNEWS/CDS_and_USNews.htm

By L0serchild99 (L0serchild99) on Thursday, January 22, 2004 - 04:09 pm: Edit

i actually applied to both UCLA and UWisc.

Wisconsin...i don't know. the atmosphere and academics just seem perfect - for me.

i guess Wisconsin is my top choice. Hm, i live in NY, so maybe that "contributed" to my "knowledge" of the school.

By Yackityack (Yackityack) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 06:48 pm: Edit

average UCLA SAT 1333
average GPA 4.24

---from their website
http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/Prospect/Adm_fr/Frosh_Prof03.htm

By Andrey1225 (Andrey1225) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 06:50 pm: Edit

you guys are missing the point of this thread.

prestige is not a measurement of numbers or academic success....its a measurement of reputation and name recognition.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 06:58 pm: Edit

Yackityack does yet know the difference between accepted students and those actually enrolled.
Back to school for you.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 09:08 pm: Edit

Yackityack does not know the difference between accepted students and those actually enrolled.
Back to school for you.

By Kyle (Kyle) on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:50 pm: Edit

Most prestigious state schools:

1. UC Berkeley
2. Michigan
3. UCLA / UVA
5. UNC - Chapel Hill
7. UCSD/UW - Madison
9. William & Mary / UT Austin

stop this arguing b/w madison and santa barbara...

By Bluebins (Bluebins) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 01:34 am: Edit

The new California governor went to UW? Gee..what a great recommendation. Can you take him back? Please?

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 01:46 am: Edit

Kyle, Williams and Mary is a state school? I agree with your first 4 schools.

By Bob_Mcc (Bob_Mcc) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 09:13 am: Edit

yes..W&Mary IS a state school - and rather more demanding of its students than UVa.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 09:18 am: Edit

California needs a reality check. You are BROKE. Can't keep spending money you don't have. Most states have dealt with the problem and are back in the black. They did it by cutting spending to equal the income. Pretty simple stuff really.

WM is a state school.

At the grad school level UW is easily better than Uva, UNC, and UCSD and in a virtual tie with UCLA. The undergrad ranking is only hurt by the lower selectivity.

By Kluge (Kluge) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 12:54 pm: Edit

Barrons - during the dot-com boom state income tax money came flooding into the California budget. The right wing screamed for tax cuts, and got 'em. No problem - there's was cash to spare. When the boom went bust, the right wing shrieked that any attempt to return the tax structure to the level it had been during the prosperous 90's was an illegal tax increase. As a result, California has lower taxes now when the budget is in deficit than we did ten years ago. The right wing has done a good job of crippling the California budget, and (as evidenced by your "simple stuff" analysis) has done an even better job of spinning the facts to put the blame on everyone but themselves.

New report: California is fourth from last among the states in per student funding for its community colleges, despite having an above average per capita income.

California has been blessed with great post secondary education for decades, but it is likely to be cash-starved into mediocrity in the not-too-distant future.

By Horseman (Horseman) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 02:41 pm: Edit

Folks this is my opiniom:
Best education wise, I have to say University of Michigan, but prestigious wise I have to say both of the Virginia schools UVA/College of WM. I think UMichi has the best education, even though tehre sixe, the quality of teachers tehre are great for undergrad and they don't get the short end of the stick. I also believe prestige comes from the age of the school. University of Minnesota is an amzaing school, but ppl don;'t considerate to be top.

By Timpcrk87 (Timpcrk87) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 03:01 pm: Edit

I'm going to be biased and put out Indiana and Purdue. Indiana has great business and med. programs. Purdue has great engineering, pharmaceutical, and agricutural programs.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Tuition in California is too low for the first thing. Many states charge far more at all levels. With the thousands of students, they could save millions by charging what they already charge in states like Michigan.

I believe CA has been under democrat control for many years so far as the legislature is concerned. Having high taxes is driving business out of the state and into Nevada and Arizona. You can compete or just tax your way into poverty as a state.

By Jomama (Jomama) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 05:40 pm: Edit

My Top Public School list

1. UC Berkeley
2. U of Michigan-Ann Arbor
3. UNC-Chapel Hill/UCLA
5. U of Wisconsin-Madison
6. U of Virginia
7. U of Illinois-Champaign
8. Willian & Mary
9. U of Texas-Austin
10.U of Washington

By Kluge (Kluge) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 07:35 pm: Edit

Barrons, the cost of attending UC is significantly higher than most other states' public universities. It's just that only a part of the cost is listed as "tuition" - the rest is hidden as "fees" assessed at individual campuses, and higher costs charged for School-supplied services. The charges for dorms are significantly higher at UC. There's a health plan charge, etc. As a result, total cost to attend UC is up to 50% higher than at schools like UVA, UMich, UW, etc. Example: UW total annual cost for an in-state undegraduate: $14,350. The cheapest UC (Riverside): $19,500.
And California taxes rank 20th in the nation based on percent of income.

Again, you've been misinformed.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 08:57 pm: Edit

UW has the second lowest tuition and fees in the Big 10 and also needs to increase the fees to balance budget cuts of a solid 10%.

At the school I actually cited--Michigan--the tuition and fees total $7788 while at UCLA they are only $5820 including the healthcare. That's a pretty big gap of nearly $2,000 which multiplied by 24,000 undergrads equals nearly $50,000,000. Penn State is nearly $9,000 and five Big 10 publics are over $7000 a year. $8,000 to attend a school the quality of UCLA, Berkeley or the other UC's in not unreasonable and for most parents--who have an average income over $100,000--really a bargain. Even if the cost of the dorms is high, most students cannot be accomodated in the dorms and many either commute from home or get an apt with friends. That is a controllable cost. For example UCLA shows the cost of living at a frat being far lower at around $15,000.



As to taxes--I was talking about taxes on business--not individuals.

By Becks777 (Becks777) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 09:59 pm: Edit

Woah.. Woah... Waoh- You guys fail to understand a simple concept. For states like MI, CA, VA, NC, WI someones instate school is the best school for them. Would it make sense for someone from Michigan to choose UCLA over UMich mainly coz UCLA is one rank above michigan???

UCLA/ Berkeley is the best state school in the whole of US for someone from California while Umich or UW is the best school for someone from thier repsective states. They cant really be compared and nothing can be proved by comparing them

By Becks777 (Becks777) on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 09:59 pm: Edit

Woah.. Woah... Waoh- You guys fail to understand a simple concept. For states like MI, CA, VA, NC, WI someones instate school is the best school for them. Would it make sense for someone from Michigan to choose UCLA over UMich mainly coz UCLA is one rank above michigan???

UCLA/ Berkeley is the best state school in the whole of US for someone from California while Umich or UW is the best school for someone from thier repsective states. They cant really be compared and nothing can be proved by comparing them

By Kluge (Kluge) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 12:32 pm: Edit

Becks777 is right; we've strayed off topic. But it is important to understand the total cost of college - not just the nominal "tuition." (And Barrons - your figures are 6 months and $1150 out of date, unfortunately. They don't include the most recent round of tuition hikes.) The total cost for an in-state freshman student at UMich, including dorm room and board, is estimated as $17,450; again, at the least expensive UC the total cost of the same items is $19,500. Out of state is vastly more expensive, either way.

By Barrons (Barrons) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 03:52 pm: Edit

My figures are right from the UC admissions websites so THEY need to update if that is a fact. I totally disagree over the socalled total cost being so important as many UC students--most by far at UCLA and Berkeley--live off campus. The cost of living will vary from area to area. I have no idea why the UC dorms are twice as expensive as most other state schools. That's another topic.

By Timpcrk87 (Timpcrk87) on Wednesday, January 28, 2004 - 04:59 pm: Edit

Did anyone else watch Indiana beat Purdue 63-58 last night. That was an awesome game. Another great in the best basketball rivalry there is.

By Mcreek05 (Mcreek05) on Thursday, January 29, 2004 - 10:52 pm: Edit

well if you think about it all state schools are prestigious in their own states, the most prestigious ones are the ones that are recognized across the country, but no one person could do that because you only have one perspective, in Indiana IU and Purdue are king, in Michigan UMich is king, in North Carolina UNC rules, in California UCLA and Berkley are the best (of course California is the land of fruits and nuts) ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect. ect.

By Gameguy56 (Gameguy56) on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 05:29 pm: Edit

Cornell

By Macsuile (Macsuile) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 08:31 pm: Edit

Here are some stats on William & Mary:

- Second oldest U.S. university
- Oldest U.S. law school
- Birthplace of Phi Beta Kappa
- Thomas Jefferson's alma mater
- Most selective U.S. public university
- Third highest SAT scores in the South (only Duke and Rice are higher)
- Highest entering student GPAs in Virginia
- Fastest growing university endowment in Virginia
- Best physics, history and biology departments in Virginia

As you can see, William & Mary has an amazing academic tradition. Yes, the grading scale is somewhat deflationary and the course offerings are not as extensive as some other Southern schools, but William & Mary is a school high on tradition which doesn't subscribe to fads where everyone graduates cum laude and there is a supermarket of course offerings. The school is committed to the British university model which is human-scale as opposed to other university models which focus on research and increasing enrollments. W&M may not be for everyone but a degree from there has timeless substance, something you can't find from most other U.S. schools which are constantly trying to reposition or recreate themselves.