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Particularly in Business.

By Coureur (Coureur) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 12:39 pm: Edit

Which U of A? Alaska? Arizona? Arkansas? Alabama....?

By Aspirer42 (Aspirer42) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 04:05 pm: Edit

Not to mention the University of Akron. ;)

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 06:12 pm: Edit

Arizona, sorry.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 07:56 pm: Edit

I think it's one of the "party schools" with better academics.

Unfortunately, I think Arizona State is better in business per se (closer to all the opportunities in Phoenix, a major regional business center)...but it's much more of a party school w/o as much of an academic/intellectual orientation, despite the fact that the average SAT's are maybe 20 poins apart.

By Libroschico (Libroschico) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 11:26 pm: Edit

"Not to mention the University of Akron. ;) "

Answer there: NO.

By Calidan (Calidan) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 03:49 am: Edit

My older brother goes to U of A, and yes, it is somewhat of a party school. However, business is very popular there, and it also has one of the best business programs in the country (believe it or not!). He says that while the campus is beautiful, and that the weather can't be beat, Tucson IS somewhat of a bore. Also, I must disagree in saying that ASU has a better business program than UA, but I will agree in saying that ASU is a bigger party school. Hope this helps!

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 01:36 pm: Edit

I have friends who live in Tucson who find it very non-boring in terms of restaurants, art, music, etc.
The D of a friend is going to U of A...and she seems to be majoring in football/basketball groupie.

By Metz (Metz) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 06:16 pm: Edit

As someone from Arizona, let me tell you that Tucson is one of the most amazingly boring places in the world (at least from a teenager's point of view), and the area of Tempe (a Phoenix suburb) that ASU is in is GREAT for college students. TONS of stuff to do, plus as someone mentioned above, being in the city gives you lots of internship opportunities that U of A wouldn't.

Academically, I do think that ASU's business program has a better reputation. Nevertheless, it seems to me that the better students that I know who choose to go in state go to U of A. Probably over 90% of the students going in state in my school's AP/IB program are going to U of A. My guess is because it doesn't have the party reputation.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 06:29 pm: Edit

Thats good to know everyone, thanks.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 06:34 pm: Edit

Although i've seen many contradictions here.. i've come to the conclusion that U of A and ASU are very similiar in terms of academic reputation, but ASU is a harder partying school and has more job oppertunities for internships. But i don't intend on staying in Arizona during the summer anyways. I'm glad to hear U of A is more academically/intellectually driven though.

By Briteeyez4322 (Briteeyez4322) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 07:25 pm: Edit

Metz, which highschool do you go to? Also, to add, while U of A is generally considered the more academically driven of the two schools, apparently ASU has a higher-ranked (nationally) business program... hope that helps. I also agree with the above posters that ASU has a better location and more partying options.

By Dashrndrx (Dashrndrx) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 02:29 am: Edit

It is only higher-ranked based upon perception. No other qualities are measured in that ranking. U of A is definately a better school overall.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 04:35 am: Edit

All I know is U of A has the 14th best public undergrad Business program in the country and its tied with Notre Dame private + public ranking wise. I would post a link but I think that's against the rules. I don't really care about rankings all that much. I'm more concerned about the quality of the professors and how academically oriented the student body around me is. By the way I'm not really into like clubbing or big city oriented partying anyways.

Does Tucson offer nicer resturants and have a variety of food? thats important to me. I mean like a nice place to take a girl out on a date? Perhaps with some like nice lowkey bars. Not the hazy/grungy type bars.

By Averna (Averna) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 04:51 am: Edit

Tucson is a nice place to hang out. I live 60 miles away and drive up with friends sometimes when we're all bored. So yeah, there's stuff to do. You can find most stuff there...sometimes you just have to look. As for the better school I agree with most everyone. ASU is the better school for business, and they really are trying to change the party school image. Maybe they'll succeed someday. I know that they're offering a bunch of full rides to the students with highest stats. to help in getting rid of the party school thing. And uofa is a good school all around. It just depends on what you like.

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By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Sunday, January 04, 2004 - 08:15 pm: Edit

sorry If I got you in trouble, i'll email you, because i'm curious to learn more about Tucson.

Posting an AIM or e-mail once is not a big deal though we wish customers really would READ their Terms of Service. Repeat violators we get more impatient with. --Admin

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 08:56 pm: Edit

If you lived in the State of California and had the oppertunity to either go to U of Arizona (out of state) or San Diego State, both in business. Which school would you choose? I'm thinking San Diego state would probably be a better bet for me, considering it's in-state and less money for my parents. The only thing that scares me is, San Diego State has a HUGE party reputation and the U of Arizona has a much higher ranked Business program.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 09:08 pm: Edit

I did my MBA at SDSU and I'd just offer one word of warning: the undergraduate business program is an impacted program and is likely to become even more so as Calif's budget crunch drags on. What that means: difficulty getting classes, larger classes (they're converting a gym into "super classrooms" that can hold 500 or more students), and cutbacks in some programs. This can all make it difficult to graduate in 4 years at SDSU, which might eat up some of the savings your parents expect. It's also more expensive to live in San Diego than Tempe - something to consider because neither school has much on-campus housing.

However, I was pretty satisfied with the teaching level at SDSU for business --- just found the above things frustrating at times. Do your research between the two schools carefully and ask a lot of questions before you decide.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 09:17 pm: Edit

Thanks Carolyn.
"super classrooms" eh gads, talk about a personalized education. I figure even if I graduated in 5 years, that'd still save my parents a good deal of money, better than the 12k yearly tuition Arizona would be. True, San Diego has a greater cost of living than Tucson, so i'm not really sure how those fees work out in the scheme of things. But as of right now this is only a hypothetical question, I don't hear from SDSU for another couple of months.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 10:38 pm: Edit

If the financial differential isn't a *too* much of a problem, I'd still take UoA over SDSU. If it can't be done, then it can't be done. One man's opinion.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Monday, January 05, 2004 - 10:46 pm: Edit

TD,
Thanks for the input.

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 01:04 am: Edit

Any other opinions out there? How well known is U of Arizona in the state of California (it's where i'd prefer to work). Wouldn't employeers have a bias towards someone who graduated from SDSU?

By Thedad (Thedad) on Wednesday, January 07, 2004 - 01:10 am: Edit

No. UoA is fairly well known here in L.A. at any rate and I think it's rep is better overall--not hugely but significantly--than SDSU, which is regarded as being uneven, I think. As a UoA grad, you might get asked, "Did you party or study or both?" After your first job or two, it won't matter anyway...what you've done will be more important. I think that right now you *can* get a better education at UoA, if you choose to. Also, a wildcard about SDSU is the forthcoming budget cuts, which will hit the Cal State system harder than the UC's.

By Pattykk (Pattykk) on Thursday, January 08, 2004 - 10:51 pm: Edit

What about Barrett Honors College of the University of Arizona? I heard that it is young and that the new president was a dean at Swarthmore. Has anyone had any experience with this honors college? My daughter wants rigor AND warm weather!

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 05:18 pm: Edit

I've heard good things about Barrett Honors College. I also want some rigor and warm weather. I figure I could try applying to the honors college...my SAT scores are up to par, but my GPA is probably too low. One can always transfer into the honors college, correct? By the way, has your daughter applied for dorms yet? I Just did so, it seems like Arizona has a great deal of new and nice dorms.

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 05:59 pm: Edit

So for marketing, Arizona State or University of Arizona? Im applying to only one. Tell me, apart from which one is better academically, also which is better socially. Does either give financial aid to internationals?

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 06:27 pm: Edit

U of A has a highly regarded Marketing program. I'm not sure about ASU.

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 06:35 pm: Edit

Thanks, anyone else?

By Pattykk (Pattykk) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 09:02 am: Edit

Savedbythebell: My daughter is still researching schools. She hasn't applied to UA yet. Her dad is at a conference there now. He has been talking to professors at Barrett. He said that they seem genuinely excited about the program. We are going out to visit soon. What is your major? Are you from Arizona?

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 10:47 am: Edit

I'd go for the University of Arizona over ASU for marketing or any major really. It's not that ASU is a bad school but the U of Arizona is definitely superior in terms of academics. Both would be fine, however, for business. And employers here in San Diego are very familiar with both schools and think highly of graduates. Actually, probably a bit more so than someone who goes to SDSU.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 12:03 pm: Edit

I think employers here in LA would have a similar take.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 01:00 pm: Edit

Having researched both schools, I do not believe that one can make a blanket judgment: you have to dig deeper and analyze the departments that interest you. As far as the business school, I believe that Arizona State's Carey is better than U of A. For instance, they have a program in Supply Management that is the best in the country while their accounting program has been ranked -by professionals, not USNews- between 8th and 18th in the past 3 years. Despite not being in the class of UT-Austin -who ranks first in undergard, graduate, and doctoral programs- or University of Illinois, that ranking is far from trivial and well above schools that have a better ... sounding name.

As always, you need to scratch the surface and check it for yourself.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 02:36 pm: Edit

I still stand by my statement that U of Arizona would be a better choice for MARKETING than Arizona State. I have an MBA in Marketing and 20 plus years of experience and U of Arizona's much better known for its research and programs in marketing, advertising, brand development, etc.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 06:06 pm: Edit

The beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. That is why it is important to check the facts INDIVIDUALLY and also verify how current the facts and statistics are. I respect your opinion and admit that I do not consider marketing to be a high priority for MY list of targeted B-schools, as I approach more from an accounting/financial criteria. Again, one has to compare programs that are comparable and lots of school excel in one area but may be poor in another. I would, however, encourgae to check the reports on UofA and see if they were pre or post 1995, as there seem to be quite a difference.

As a parting thought, here is the much maligned USnews ranking for UNDERGRADUATE marketing programs:

Undergraduate business specialties:
Marketing
1. University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)
2. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor *
3. University of California–Berkeley (Haas) *
4. University of Texas–Austin (McCombs) *
5. U. of North Carolina–Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler) *
6. New York University (Stern)
7. Indiana University–Bloomington (Kelley) *
8. University of Virginia (McIntire) *
9. Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison *
10. University of Florida (Warrington) *
U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign *
12. Pennsylvania State U.–University Park (Smeal) *
13. Massachusetts Inst. of Technology (Sloan)
14. Ohio State University–Columbus (Fisher) *
15. Michigan State University (Broad) *
16. Univ. of Southern California (Marshall)
17. Arizona State University (Carey) *
Emory University (Goizueta) (GA)
19. Univ. of Minnesota–Twin Cities (Carlson) *
University of Notre Dame (IN)
21. University of Washington *

By Savedbythebell7 (Savedbythebell7) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 06:14 pm: Edit

PattyKK, I'm not from Arizona. I'm from California actually. I got accepted as a pre-business major. It's still up in the air, what i'll want to major in within the undergraduate business school, assuming I go to the university of Arizona.

By Dstark (Dstark) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 06:16 pm: Edit

What is more important than US News is what employers think about schools. If employers don't think highly of Arizona State, who cares what US News states.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 08:37 pm: Edit

And how does one go about finding out what EMPLOYERS THINK?

Your crystal ball is as good as mine!

By Dstark (Dstark) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 08:40 pm: Edit

I ask.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 12:28 am: Edit

Oh well, I just deleted my reply.

It is obvious that it would be impossible to find an answer that represents all the "employers". You could ask ALL the employers in San Diego what they think of Stanford and it still would not be a good sample.

And then the "to whom" you ask the question at a particular company is another variable that would make the whole experience an exercise in futility.

Lastly, are the potential employers "really" that relevant considering that about 5 years will lapse before a senior in HS emerges from college. I am sure that lots of students may have second-guessed their decision to enter the computer sciences arena in anticipation of the never ending nirvana created by the dot.com boom. Well a lot of them could still join their former "potential" bosses ... at the next unemployment office. The largest and most dramatic employers/recruiters on campus are also the most fickle. Not too long ago, most freshly minted MBA from elite schools would have given their pinkies for a chance to work at Enron or Tyco or any trading giant. Before that the boom/bust cycle in the consulting field yielded its fair share of casualties.

As I said, my crystal ball is as good as yours!
And that is all I got to say on the subject.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 02:46 am: Edit

Xiggi, I'm not a typical employer but that circle is my circle and even I have been known to do some occasional matchmaking and lining up people with those who have jobs to be done, paid or unpaid. For someone 30+, I going to be most interested in their intelligence, temperament, and what they've accomplished. For someone under 30, especially 25 or under, I'm going to be at least mildly interested in where they went to school. An interview, formal or otherwise, will often solidify my opinion, one way or the other, but on the initial impression scale, U of A has a higher average potential than a Cal-State school. For a U of A grad, the first thing I'm going to be interested in uncovering is whether they were a serious student or a party animal...when I'm "on," I'm a fairly good interrogator in that the interviewees don't have an idea of what I'm looking for while we chat. In contrast, a Cal-State students is going to be mentally "tagged" somewhat lower down the scale unless discover that there were circumstances that mean that's what they could afford, not where they could get admitted to.
Unfair and subjective? Yes. But people can affect my initial suppositions, both up and down, during the interview. TheMom interviews far more regularly than I do and we both know the disappointment of someone who looks good on paper but is a dud in real life. Personally, I like staffing volunteer organizations...it's a challenge to get the right person in the right slot and you don't have money to use as an incentive.

By Dstark (Dstark) on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 03:38 am: Edit

One thing I would ask a school is ... what companies actually recruit on campus? What Thedad has written, I have heard from other employers. The party reputation of a school bothers some employers.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 10:57 am: Edit

My favorite recruiting story: My husband is on the committee that interviews and recommends recent graduates (called new professionals) for a large government research facility here in San Diego. They always consider where applicants got their degree and also look at transcripts to get a sense of grades and courses taken. Well, there was a computer science applicant from SDSU who seemed pretty good - until they looked at his transcript and saw that he had mostly A's and B's except for one glaring D in a programming class.
When they interviewed him, they asked about the reason for this --- to which he promptly replied, "Yeah, I went down to Tiajuana the night before the final and got totally smashed." They gave him points for honesty but didn't offer him a job.

By Xiggi (Xiggi) on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 11:55 am: Edit

I lied ... I will say a few more things:

1. I respect your opinions as they are filled with common sense. I completely understand the importance of the reputation of the school and the impact of its name. More on this in a second...

2. I also believe -based on reading research- that the "name/reputation/grades" of the school is very important the day you graduate but will steadily decrease as you progress in your career. For business schools, the choice of the graduate school seems to be much more important than the undergraduate. Anyone reading about business degrees will find that the material comes in 20-1 between MBA and BBA. Simply said, the career path is designed around obtaining a Master Degree in Business but not necessarily along a BBA + MBA path.

3. There a great students at poor universities and mediocre students at world renowned schools. Employers and recruiters are keenly aware of that. A potential employee that has to rely solely on the name of his/her school will face difficult issues. In the end, it is the individual qualities that need to shine.

4. Back to the name issue. In the past year, I need more than two hands to count the number of time people have commented on my choice of business schools. "Are you thinking of Harvard as a business school?" Despite being industry captains and well educated people, they seem rather surprised when I answer: "If they build it, I might go". A few of them went as far as telling me I should research a bit more as they "knew" that Harvard Business School does exist and had friends graduating from there. Anedoctal as it might be, it also reflects that reputation and name recognition is not always built by people who ... know!

Adios!

By Thedad (Thedad) on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 12:09 pm: Edit

Xiggi, there is much truth in the declining value of the "name" of the school over time. I think the Ivy-obsessed students on this board *way* overplay the value of the "name."

After just a very few years, what you've accomplished is going to generally matter much more than where you went to school. I suspect the lingering effect, probably into about the mid-30's, is that a top-notch school under "Education" might give you better chances for being interviewed but even then you still need to be able to walk the walk. The implicit notion of school bonds...that someone is going to hire someone who went to the same [Ivy] school or some elite school when their experience and record isn't the best fit for the job is a fantasy.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Friday, January 16, 2004 - 12:42 pm: Edit

Xiggi - you are ABSOLUTELY right - Twenty five years into my career I am seldom asked where I did either my undergraduate or graduate work. The fact that I have a B.S. and an MBA in a particular area is all that matters. I'd even venture to say that the name of my undergraduate school has done very little to keep me employed over the years (although the skills I acquired there certainly have). I think you've made a good choice for yourself in terms of where you're going - what will ultimately sell YOU after graduation from ANY school is YOU.