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i personally find it hard to follow anyone else's rankings i see about schools because there really is no way to rank a college experience for other people. u can talk about ur impressive professors and renowned programs all you want, but if u dont enjoy ur time there, then who cares? Harvard is waaaaaaay overrated, at least its undergrad program. I have a friend who went there and HATED it. professors were always off doing research, the campus was more of a tourist attraction than a college. thats no way to spend ur college years. All these different rankings need to take the happiness of the students into account. College isnt only about the academics. u can get a top notch academic experience at any ivy, and many other schools on top of that. but there is so much else to look into. Dartmouth and Brown have beautiful campuses, and while Dartmouth is a bit out of the way, Brown is only an hour from Boston, and Providence itself is a great place. Columbia is in NYC, u dont get much better location than that. With Yale, the campus is nice, but try leaving it and ull get mugged. Penn isn't very attractive, at least in my opinion, and while the surrounding area has gotten less dangerous, its still not the best place to be. Cornell is in the middle of nowhere. Harvard is a tourist attraction. Princeton is in New Jersey... enough said. No I'm just kidding, Princeton is nice, but the students there are waaay too focused on schoolwork. After all my college research, reading and visiting alike, I have my own listing of schools, not by prestige, because prestige is just based on rumor and name. thats not important. i rate the ivies as follows:

Brown/Dartmouth
Columbia
Harvard/Yale/Princeton
Cornell/Upenn

im sure this list is highly controversial, but i took a lot of time researching these schools. my priorities are probly a lot different than many other people, which is why u can never follow someone elses rankings. but i just wanted to get this list out there to go against the same lists i keep seeing with harvard and yale at the top. I ended up applying and getting accepted to the Brown PLME. I applied to Brown not only for this program but because I wanted to make sure I would enjoy my college experience, so I looked for the school with the most interesting sounding student body. And a school that bases much of the admission process on personality while still accepting highly qualified applicants has to put together a unique student body. not that im only advocating brown, i just wanted to get out there that theres more to school than prestige. it just seems like a lot of students are forgetting that...

wow that was a long post. guess i had a lot to say

By Coureur (Coureur) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 11:30 am: Edit

The main factors you mention appear to be how pretty the campus is and where it is located. These are not exactly the most important factors on which to rate a school - beauty is only skin deep and all that. You say nothing about the academic programs, resources available to students, the housing situation, financials, etc.

Have you thought of looking at and ranking any schools beyond the Ivy League? You might surprise yourself and find schools that are even better than Brown.

By Brownie20786 (Brownie20786) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 12:41 pm: Edit

believe me, ive researched every school. this was just my ranking as far as the ivies were concerned. and my main factors werent just looks and location, i just felt that these factors were those that most people ignore, and while u mite call them skin deep, they are still very important to a college experience. if ur on an ugly campus in the middle of nowhere, its going to affect ur experience, no matter how renouned the school. like i said, however, all the ivies have great academic programs, and, as far as im concerned, up to a certain point, a great academic program is a great academic program, whether ur taking it at Princeton or Cornell. anyway, my main point was really just to get students to think about other things than academics. u are going to get a great academic experience at any ivy. but theres more to a great college experience than that.

By Cbmac (Cbmac) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 02:17 pm: Edit

I agree with you that the ivy league schools can't be looked at in terms of "hard" numbes alone. You have to feel like you "fit" if you want to get the most out of your time there.

Which is why I am always surprised to hear that people apply to all Ivies and then go to whatever one accepts them. At the undergrad level they have completely different personalities.

For example, I don't see how it is possible for someone to like both Penn and Brown. If you go to Penn, you're likely to be into cheering the sports teams, have school spirit, go to fraternity parties, be republican, study something practical, and have basically a suburban mindset.

If you go to Brown, you normally don't care about college sports, don't care about fraternities (even though Brown has them), be democrat or even more left than that, study a broad range of liberal arts subjects, and have a more urban mindset.

I am totally generalizing here, but there is a such thing as a school's character. I totally loved Brown, where I went as an undergrad, and most alumni are rabidly loyal and remember their college days there very fondly. But I knew a few people who hated it and felt alientated (usually jocks or hard-core frat types). A couple of them went to Penn and Cornell where they liked it.

By Datadigit1 (Datadigit1) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Personally, I'm always amazed at how people are so set on going to an "Ivy League" school that it seems like it is all they care about. The Ivy League is an athletic league for a couple of older schools located in the Northeast... if that's where you limit your college focus then you are SERIOUSLY limiting your future potential. The Ivy league schools are great, but so are a lot of other schools... especially if you are interested in science or engineering (as an undergrad) you will typically find much better departments by looking outside the "ivy tunnel." Ideally one could look at all a college has to offer without revealing it's name (obviously that's impossible), but to find the best fit that's what one needs to do... especially the huge amount of people on this forum that seem to think that it's the Ivys, and then everything else is just some lower form of matter ;-)

Get your head out of the clouds and focus on the things that really matter at a university and then you'll find the best place for you (mabye an "ivy" and mabye not)! :-D

By Stalingrad (Stalingrad) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 10:41 pm: Edit

Sidebar: When looking at Penn you have to look at the Wharton School of Business. To rank Penn as a whole in terms of prestige and only look at the college of arts and sciences causes a problem. The undergrad Wharton is a large part of where the money goes, which is why the college might not be what you guys consider holding much prestige, but Wharton is a huge part of Penn. Just a little note I'd like to add when ranking the ivies.

By Fredmurtz2 (Fredmurtz2) on Thursday, January 01, 2004 - 11:51 pm: Edit

For example, I don't see how it is possible for someone to like both Penn and Brown. If you go to Penn, you're likely to be into cheering the sports teams, have school spirit, go to fraternity parties, be republican, study something practical, and have basically a suburban mindset.

If you go to Brown, you normally don't care about college sports, don't care about fraternities (even though Brown has them), be democrat or even more left than that, study a broad range of liberal arts subjects, and have a more urban mindset.

Totally picked up on both of those vibes myself....Penn with Wharton's influence is certainly most conservative and preprofessional or, so it struck me.

To me,
Yale/Columbia/Brown are very similar in atmosphere though quite different in requirements

Penn/Cornell/Dartmouth/Harvard /Princeton the same thing.


JMHO

By Usna_Reject (Usna_Reject) on Friday, January 02, 2004 - 12:07 am: Edit

"Personally, I'm always amazed at how people are so set on going to an "Ivy League" school that it seems like it is all they care about. The Ivy League is an athletic league for a couple of older schools located in the Northeast... if that's where you limit your college focus then you are SERIOUSLY limiting your future potential. The Ivy league schools are great, but so are a lot of other schools... especially if you are interested in science or engineering (as an undergrad) you will typically find much better departments by looking outside the "ivy tunnel." Ideally one could look at all a college has to offer without revealing it's name (obviously that's impossible), but to find the best fit that's what one needs to do... especially the huge amount of people on this forum that seem to think that it's the Ivys, and then everything else is just some lower form of matter ;-)

Get your head out of the clouds and focus on the things that really matter at a university and then you'll find the best place for you (mabye an "ivy" and mabye not)! :-D "

I strongly agree

By Lmsgoodgirl (Lmsgoodgirl) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 12:12 am: Edit

Where you go to school is all about fit as has been said numerous times. Ivy league schools can be great...IF they fit what you are looking for. I thought I'd mention a little bit about Cornell, which is where I am a student, because if it sounds like what you are looking for I highly recommend it.

First of all...even though it’s a top research school, undergraduates are given a lot of resources and attention. The great professors are actually teaching undergrad and even freshman classes and there are lots of research opportunities no matter what your level or major.
It’s also a very large and diverse campus (13,000 undergrads). In just my first year I took Psych 101 with 720 kids and a writing seminar class with just 16. Even in big seminar classes (which you'll probably take at least a couple of freshman year depending on your major) there are endless amounts of help available. Not only to you have access to teach assistants and study centers, but all professors hold office hours a couple times a week in which all they do is answer your questions and work on students on a one on one basis. It’s very easy to get access to your professors.
About the student life...Greek life is big on campus but if you're not in a frat or sorority there's no big pressure to be in one and there's still lots to do. Yes...some may call Ithaca a bit small for a city, but there's still plenty of things to do both on and off campus (even if you don't have a car!) Students are very active and friendly, and though there are people that are at the libraries from open to close there's a lot of normal average college students having fun and relaxing. Grades are important here, and its not easy, but you can still have a lot of fun with people who are obsessed with studying. Also...there's a club/organization/team/group for everything and it’s easy to get involved!
Bonuses...Ok...so the food is great...no lie! Even if you have a special diet (Vegetarian, Vegan, Kosher) there are still plenty of good choices. Also the campus is very beautiful. A Capella groups are big on campus and many of them are very good. They often give free "arch sing" concerts. Almost all the students are HAPPY! (and that whole big suicide rate thing is a myth)

Basically there are tons of great things I could tell you about Cornell. Perhaps it might not be the right fit for some people but it is a great school and I recommend it highly to people who are interested in these things. If you have any questions feel free to ask me.

By Ksolo (Ksolo) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 04:06 pm: Edit

Many of you guys have to keep in my mind that many high school seniors do not know how to gauge which schools they should be attending. Therefore, the vast majority select their choices of schools to apply to based on prestige. So many students are also clueless in terms of what they want to study/pursue in college. Many only know is that they would like to go to the best college possible. So prestige is what they look at year in, and year out. Next comes location and sometimes the size of the school, and last but not least, the financial package. But prestige is such a great factor in their eyes. Yes, it can be unfortunate, but at their stage, most really don't know any better. Did any of you guys really know this much about these Ivy schools and how not to believe the hype, before your senior year of high school? Just curious.

By Collegeguy (Collegeguy) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 08:54 pm: Edit

I agree completely.

Stanford all the way

Beauty, brains, and brawn.
(Campus, academics, athletics)

By Lmsgoodgirl (Lmsgoodgirl) on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 - 09:39 pm: Edit

Ksolo...
I couldn't agree with you more. I think a lot of people do pick Ivy league school just because of those reasons. For me, I knew I really wanted to go to Cornell because it just fit me really well. Though I took into consideration that it was a good school, the "Ivy" title was just icing on the cake.