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What do you think are the most underrated and under-respected colleges in the country? You know, the ones that are just as good if not better than some schools on the (ahem) East or West Coasts?

By Aspirer42 (Aspirer42) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 12:55 am: Edit

Loren Pope's literally written entire books on exactly this subject, but Kenyon, Macalester, Harvey Mudd (at least for those of us east of the Rockies), Beloit and Centre Colleges come to mind most immediately.

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 01:22 am: Edit

Aspirer42 - good calls.

Generally speaking, LACs and Universities in the Midwest are underrated relative to their northeastern and California peers. To Aspirer's list I'd add St. Olaf, Lawrence and Earlham, and Big Ten schools Minnesota, Iowa and Indiana.

Top Pacific Northwest LACs (Reed, Whitman, Lewis & Clark) are also underrated.

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 01:25 am: Edit

Also, note one school that is so often cited as underrated it has lost its underrated status - The College of Wooster.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 12:19 pm: Edit

I agree wholeheartedly with the list of "underrated" schools above. However, I would have to say that in my opinion the most underrated school in the country is probably Carleton. It's a fanatastic school on par academically with the Ivy's and schools like Williams and Amherst. Another school that I think is surprisingly under-rated is Haverford. In Texas, Trinity University in San Antonio is also an excellent, under-rated school simply because it doesn't attract a lot of out-of-state students.

Now, here's a different - and very loaded -question: which schools are over-rated?
My list would include Trinity College, Boston University, Pepperdine, and George Washington. It's not that these aren't good schools but their "popularity" overshoots what they actually offer to undergraduates.

By Nitroxideracer (Nitroxideracer) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 12:21 pm: Edit

I was thinking that Carnegie Mellon University is very under appreciated. This is one of the top engineering schools in the country, with especially notable programs in electrical engineering and robotics. They also have top social sciences programs, art programs, and drama programs, but they aren't getting the love they deserve.

By Ratserutuf (Ratserutuf) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 02:04 pm: Edit

Oh my god I would have to agree with Nitroxideracer. I think Carnegie Mellon is the most underrated school in the country, i even started a conversation about it. I dont understand why they arent ranked higher. cmu deserves to be in the top 10.

By Chasgoose (Chasgoose) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 02:08 pm: Edit

Kenyon, if I could deal with the isolation I would definitely apply there it's a great school with great academics but not-so-great location (for me anyways). I would add Georgetown and Boston College to the overrated list.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 02:41 pm: Edit

How about Case Western Reserve? Like Carnegie Mellon, I don't think it gets near enough attention.

Another school I might add to the over-rated category is Duke. Again, it's not that it's not a good school, it's just that its popularity outstrips its actual quality to some extent.

By Haon (Haon) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Kenyon, Oberlin, and Carleton are, IMO, the most underrated of the LACs.
In general, all LACs are underrated as compared to Universities.

I think the most underrated university is Rice.

By Nitroxideracer (Nitroxideracer) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 04:30 pm: Edit

Case Western University is SUPER-UNDERRATED!

They are among the best science / engineering schools in the nation, on the level of MIT, CalTech, and Carnegie Mellon. They must have the best biomedical engineering program in the nation (Yep, even better than Johns Hopkins & Duke), and yet they don't get much love.

Obviously, the rankings in US NEWS do make them less popular than others, but there is a reason why. They get fewer applications because most kids just don't know about them, and hence they have a higher acceptance rate than the ivy/ivy-like colleges (I think its about 40-45% now). They also have slightly lower median ranges for their students' test scores, which also affects them, but it doesn't really matter to the students who go there.

This is a great school, and enyone with enough aptitude to go there deserves to be in the company of some of the best students in the country.

By Reidmc (Reidmc) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 05:03 pm: Edit

I agree with Carolyn 98% of the time but don't see Carleton as underrated. It's the only midwest LAC with strong name recognition nationally.

Grinnell would be my choice for a school that is as good as any LAC but not all that popular. Compare its academic and general peer ratings to its selectivity ratings. Big disconnect there.

By Ariesathena (Ariesathena) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 07:11 pm: Edit

To put this on a more theoretical level, many universities with great athletics are overrated (Duke, BC, etc); their popularity is not derived so much from their academics or opportunities but their name recognition... from athletics. Incidentally, Duke used to be underrated - many people had not heard of it until its basketball team started doign really well.

By Mahras (Mahras) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 07:13 pm: Edit

I believe Cooper Union is the most underrated outside of New York City. It is THE best for engineering. It is free (saves 40000 dollars) has a great faculty, low student:teacher, and brilliant resources. In fact, an engineering farm in NYC told me that a grduate of Cooper Union is weighted more than Columbia (Fu) and techies (MIT, CALTECH).

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 07:29 pm: Edit

Reid - I understand what you mean about Carleton but I still think it doesn't get enough recognition from students looking for a good Ivy-caliber LAC. A good deal of that is due to its location.

And, I totally agree with whoever mentioned Rice as being one of the most under-rated universities.

By Nitroxideracer (Nitroxideracer) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 12:27 pm: Edit

Apparently, the word has gotten out that Rice University is an outstanding school. Their acceptance rate has plummeted, and it is now at about 25%, which is one of the lowest in the country, about that of Georgetown's. What's more, the nice people at US NEWS & WORLD have been showing more love to the Texans. They have now ranked Rice 16th in the latest rankings for national universities. Hence, I feel it is unfair to label Rice as being the most underrated college in the nation.

Perhaps Rice is underrated in the Eastern part of the country, but practically everyone west of the Mississippi River applies to Rice if they feel they have a chance to get in. Obviously, Rice is not CalTech, which is known by the whole country and the world over, but it is thoroughly appreciated and loved for being a great school. However, Rice is NOT underrated.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 01:21 pm: Edit

I keep seeing Kenyon College tied in with the word RURAL. In all honesty I do not think of "rural" when I am on the Kenyon campus. The campus is located in an area where there is generally a good bit of farming, but the campus itself is a very interesting mix of Gothic architecture and is combined with a lovely village atmosphere with various small stores that form a hub of campus life. Whether your background is suburban or urban, I am quite sure you would feel very comfortable on the Kenyon campus. There are no cows, farm equipment dealers, or silos to be seen! The nearest city is Mount Vernon, which is separated from the Kenyon campus by a corridor that is lined with lovely suburban homes and estates. Certainly, if you wander far off from that corridor, you will find much corn, livestock, and tidy farms. But if you live on campus and make the occasional trip to Mt. Vernon, you will not think of it as a "rural" location at all.

The "rural tag" probably comes from having to DRIVE to the Kenyon / Mt Vernon area. No matter what direction you come from, you have to drive through (too) many miles of farmland. Once you are there, the feeling is quite different. I always have the feeling of being at a very civilized oasis safely protected by distant miles of cornfields. Kenyon College is a very pleasant place to be.

By Momx4 (Momx4) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 03:49 pm: Edit

This "underrated, overrated" phenomenon can change quite rapidly as underrated colleges become the new hot colleges; then before you know it they're over the hill and become overrated. My oldest son went to Wash U in fall, 1997, back when they were admitting over 60% of their applicants. It was considered an underrated "bargain" (I forget if that was Pope's or Fiske's terminology) then. He got an excellent education there, a lot of personal attention from his profs, made some good, life-long friends and thoroughly enjoyed his experience there. After graduation, he was admitted to an excellent graduate school. Since 1997, Wash U did some clever marketing, became a hot college, went up in the US News rankings and is now considered an overrated school. It's all relative- I doubt the quality of the education and the social life is much different from when my son was there.

By Saxmaster (Saxmaster) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:40 am: Edit

How about Davidson, in North Carolina? I'm from Massachusetts and hardly any of my friends have even heard of it. My guidance counselor didn't even know that much about it. Its a great school with awesome numbers (which is why I applied ED), but it doesn't seem to get the recognition it should outside of the south.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Under-rated or over-rated? Both of these terms apply to OTHER people's opinions!

What is much more important is how YOU rate the college after doing a lot of investigation of facts---and that does not include other people's opinions.

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Good point MT. Maybe the term we should be using is "great schools that don't get the recognition they deserve" or something similar.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 04:31 pm: Edit

Carolyn,
Anyone who has been around a while has noticed two types of individuals that stand out from the larger crowd:

(1) the cultured, well-read person that graduated from a college no one has ever heard of....

(2) the ignoramus that graduated from a top-ranked college.

You can get a great education---or avoid one---at nearly every college. How can you improve on such a great system?

By Wobudong (Wobudong) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 08:27 pm: Edit

Morgantruce: Bravo.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 08:50 pm: Edit

Thanks... but I should tell you that I was one of the far more common types of people: the ignoramous who attended a college no one has ever heard of.

By Jay12602 (Jay12602) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 09:19 pm: Edit

I heard Case Western Reserve University DOESN'T CHARGE tuition if you get 1500+ SAT, and if you get a 1400-1490 SAT you get 75% of tuition fees covered.

Are these just rumours? If not then Case Western is DEFINATELY underrated!!!

By Lki (Lki) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 09:53 pm: Edit

i think if CWRU really does that, it shows that they are desperate
suggests that they arent that good

By Jay12602 (Jay12602) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 09:57 pm: Edit

They could just be doing that to get all the best and the brightest to attend. I think a lot of kids with 1500 SAT's would rather go to college free than pay $35,000 a year for another college.

By Jay12602 (Jay12602) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 10:06 pm: Edit

"I heard Case Western Reserve University DOESN'T CHARGE tuition if you get 1500+ SAT, and if you get a 1400-1490 SAT you get 75% of tuition fees covered."

I still want to know for sure if it's a rumor or not, so if anybody knows for sure please post.

By Momx4 (Momx4) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 10:18 pm: Edit

CWRU is fine, it's Cleveland that gets the bad rap... but it is improving now that it has the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 10:18 pm: Edit

I suggest you ask them.
http://finaid.cwru.edu/Finaid.aspx?bhcp=1
They do apparently offer quite a few merit scholaships (unusual at most top schools)
THey offer 4-yrs of money to at least 25 National Merit Scholars for example


http://www.studentsreview.com/OH/CWRU_c.html

By Cubfan (Cubfan) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 10:40 pm: Edit

saxmaster, 20 years ago davidson was held in higher esteem in the south than Duke. Then along came the basketball program and all of a sudden, Duke is one of the hottest schools in the country. go figure.

By Esotericstorm (Esotericstorm) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 11:28 pm: Edit

Case Western is a great school. Their acceptance rate is actually very high (70%?). My brother attends school there and is on a 17,000 dollar scholarship. It is not a rumor. They give out incredible academic scholarships based on class rank and SAT/ACT scores. And I agree, Cleveland isn't the most exciting of places to be, but the education given at CWRU is just as good, if not better than a lot of "good" schools.

By Jay12602 (Jay12602) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 11:47 pm: Edit

Problem is I attend a very competative school. People with 4.7 GPA's are usually only ranked about 90/700. I hope they take that into consideration.

By Aceofspades (Aceofspades) on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 12:45 am: Edit

UCSC is a rising star it has a kick ass dual major program and a new age engineering department

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 11:14 am: Edit

UCSC is underappreciated. They also have a top-ranked astrophysics department.

Another UC school that I think is underappreciated is UC Riverside - they have excellent programs in biochemistry, business administration, drama, math, music, engineering and creative writing, among other areas, and are much smaller and more personalized than most other UC's. Again, people don't even look at UCR because they think "Riverside - yuck!"

By Nitroxideracer (Nitroxideracer) on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 08:03 pm: Edit

Don't you think that the College of William & Mary is also under apprediated and underrated? After all, they are the second oldest college in the nation (Only you-know-who is older), and they have among the top 15 faculties in the country, period.

The fact that they are a public school is perhaps the culprit to blame for why they are so underrated and so low (relatively) in those pesky college ratings in a certain (ahem) magazine. They have a relatively high acceptance rate because of their government-funded and operated stautus, but they still manage to be selective, with high test score ranges, and some of America's best college students.

It also doesn't help that 80% of the William & Mary studenst come from Virginia, which means it's the top school in that state, but extremely under appreciated for the rest of the nation. Still, anyone looking for a school with powerhouse academics, one of the best faculties around, and a gorgeous campus should check out the College of William & Mary.

By Mr0range (Mr0range) on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 06:40 pm: Edit

I second William and Mary. Both my parents went there, so maybe I am biased.. but I know the academics at W&M rival those at UVA and many other top schools, and there is no grade inflation.

By Lki (Lki) on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 10:06 pm: Edit

it seems to me that St. John's College (MD) is also underrated. It has a distinctive great books program that, despite its esoteric nature and humanities bent, ends up making St. John's #8 in the country for students who recieve PhD's in math and compsci (its #1 for humanities).

By Chrisy (Chrisy) on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 11:32 pm: Edit

LACs in general but especially Kenyon, Davidson, Carleton, and Grinnell. they are just as good as ivies.

By Haon (Haon) on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 07:11 pm: Edit

I wouldn't go as far as saying kenyon or grinnel are as good as Ivies.

Davidson is overrated in the south and underrated in the north.

By Cubfan (Cubfan) on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Haon, Davidson is overrated in the south compared to where?

By Patient (Patient) on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 09:01 pm: Edit

Also, Haon, why do you think it is underrated in the north? I have really enjoyed your posts, and know you go to Williams, which is where I would go if I were young again! What do you know about Davidson and how would you contrast it with Williams?

By Bobmcc (Bobmcc) on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 02:33 pm: Edit

"underrated" seems to mean excellent regional colleges that aren't widely known nationally.

Being from NC we knew all about Davidson..but nothing about Grinnell or Macalester until our son got post NME mailings..Turned out, after visiting, those were the two colleges he liked the most.
We initially hoped he'd pick Davidson..but after our "admitted students" visit..realized that it really IS still VERY preppy (52% of students from private schools). He was sure he'd accept Oberlin's offer..but after visiting the campus scene just appeared too bleak & depressing on that particular day..seemed like EVERY student was dressed in black.
Davidson has first rate academics, a beautiful campus and a VERY fratty atmosphere..By contrast, Grinnell, a school w/ (by some measures) "higher" standards (ie average SATs) draws 76% from public schools.

don't think W&Mary is underrated..i went there in the late 60s and there were TONS of students from outside Va.

And, for undergrads, I'd say Grinnell is probably better than most Ivies.....

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 04:04 pm: Edit

Early prayer for the New Year:

I wish that all parents and students would learn as much as they can about individual colleges. Find out all the strong points and weak points. Waste no time comparing colleges against each other. Trying to detect which college is better than the next is a meaningless and futile exercise---which seems to attract those people with a lot of time to waste.

If a college is the best fit for you... it is the best college.

By Bobmcc (Bobmcc) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 11:17 am: Edit

In re CWRU.. if you're interested in music perfomance you have the Cleveland Institute available..Unfortunately, as it happened, not if you're interested in composition...
We were very pleasantly surprised when we stayed w/ friends in Cleveland (when our son was checking out Oberlin)with how nice the city was esp. when contrasted w/ our preconceptions..

By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 08:44 pm: Edit

MorganTruce: Amen. There are so many excellent schools out there - choose the fit first and if the right fit happens to be a "top 25" on someone's list somewhere, that's merely a bonus.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 09:01 pm: Edit

....and, even if the school is not excellent----but merely good, the experience is still going to be the best thing you could possibly do with four years of your time!

By Haon (Haon) on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 02:19 am: Edit

Cubfan--many southerners consider Davidson as good or better than AWS, HYPS.

Patient--at least where I live (maryland), most people (those who have heard of it) consider Davidson at the level of Oberlin, Grinnel, Bates, etc.

Personally, I feel like Davidson is academically somewhere imbetween the two...I'd list Davidson with Washington and Lee, Colgate, Claremont McCenna, etc.

What I know about Davidson is that it's a small D1 school, probably fairly similar to Williams in the sense that it has both serious academics and serious athletics. However, Davidson is an extremely southern school, for better or for worse. Davidson is much more conservative than Williams is, and the student body is much more homogenous (ethnically and socioeconomically). Davidson is much less selective for recruited athletes so you will actually find some "dumb jocks" on campus (as you will at almost any D1 school). It is slightly less selective for non-athletes (although still extremely selective). From what i've heard about Davidson, the campus sounds beautiful (and warm year-round), and the academics are excellent. However, Davidson was never a school that interested me particularly so I haven't done nearly as much research into it as I have many of the non-southern LACs.

By Patient (Patient) on Tuesday, December 09, 2003 - 09:38 pm: Edit

Thanks, Haon. My son is a recruited athlete there but also has the high scores and high grades and so forth. His impressions of the school after his visit, seem to confirm your impressions without the visit. Still high on his list, but the feeling definitely gave him pause.

It will be interesting to see if Davidson acquires a more national profile and greater diversity as a result of its recent high rankings in PR and US News. I have been surprised, and perhaps a bit concerned, that almost no one I have talked to in our sophisticated West Coast city had even heard of it.

By Bobmcc (Bobmcc) on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 01:14 pm: Edit

As mentioned several times by several posters..One characteristic of many first rate LACs, w/ the exception of a few in the NEast (Amherst, Williams, etc.) is that they are unlikely to have national brand name recognition. On the other hand, grad. schools know all about Davidson, Grinnell, Reed, Kenyon, Macalester etc. So it's hardly surprising that folks out on the west coast aren't typically familiar w/ Davidson (though they might have heard of, say, William & Mary).

I'm sure the only reason i knew about Deep Springs (before doing the college applications thing) is because my dad went there; and I only knew of the Claremont colleges because my stepmom went to Scripps.

By Cubfan (Cubfan) on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 08:52 pm: Edit

Bobmcc, how the heck did your dad end up at deep springs coming from n.c? I never heard of it until the chicago tribune had an interresting article on it a few months ago. Got any good stories to tell about his experiences and why did you not go there?

By Bobmcc (Bobmcc) on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 06:40 pm: Edit

Oh..my dad grew up in SoCal; I grew up (mostly) in Va; our son was born & raised in NC. My parents (despite or because of their undergrad and grad work at cornell) didn't think the Ivy premium was worth much, so i wasn't offered a choice..I applied to W&Mary ED and that was that.(well..until i wanted to switch majors 1 time too many & would've exceeded the 10 semester limit and transferred to VPISU after reading "Limits to Growth." I did stick w/ geography as an undergrad & then grad school at UNC (picking up library and public health degrees en route. If my wife hadn't gotten pregnant, i'd probably still be grabbing degrees).

I know my dad gave $$ to Deep Springs and neither parent gave anything to cornell, so it actually may have been something more than "cheapness" in their unwillingess to pay for anything out of state or private (Post Deep Springs is what concerned them..and actually i doubt that i'd have been a good ranching type).

My dad cherished his DSprings years. In a long, autobiograhical letter to his kids and grandkids, he devoted a goodly portion to his time there. And i know he kept up w/ several of his classmates all his life. From the start, i gather, the DS student body was largely self-governing ; the students were few, but an interesting crew and, he commented on how the (rotating) DS faculty was uniformly superb.

He was so enamored of DS that, after he retired, he sought out a rather dreadful desert landscape painting by a member of the Cornell art faculty who had been an instructer at DS at the time my dad was there.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 07:00 pm: Edit

Haon, my take on Davidson is similar to yours. My son was a recruited athlete there. Felt it was too conservative. Same feeling he got about Colgate. I was all for LACs for him and was disappointed with the way he looked at the schools.
Bobmcc, that is really an interesting story about Deep Springs. I never knew anyone who went there, and was always curious about the school. It sounded like a perfect place for my boys but their highschool stats would not have gotten them anywhere near the place. A good friend of mine went into a panic when his son applied there. The young man was an HPY candidate along with a bunch of joint BA/MD programs, and when he threw DS into the mix, he caused a lot of parental angst. They couldn't threaten him non paynent either,lol. I think it would have done the young man some good. He did get into Harvard and has graduated there, but his father recently told me that the one thing his son should have done along the line is work at a McDonald's, or clean up crew or somewhere like that to get a good sense of how many people work. Though the boy is very successful in the traditional sense (accepted to med school, graduated from Harvard), there is that sense of entitlement and removal from the real world that bothers his father. And of course as his parent he was responsible for much of this atmosphere as he created it for his son, as so many of us try to create for our children.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 08:13 pm: Edit

i might as well add dto the CWRU discussion.

i live in a suburb out of Cleveland-yes CWRU is a good school, but it is overshadowed by other schools..even in Ohio. if you live in Ohio, the place to go is OSU. everyone thinks that OSU is the only palce in the world. nobody cares about CWRU.

their programs ARE very good. VERY GOOD FIN AID...

i just think the area is blech. maybe because i live over here...

i guess it is underrated. the acceptance rate is 76% but the median SAT is 1420-very self selective pool. people from my school dont apply unless they MEAN BUSINESS.

*shrug* on my list-toward the bottom...but its on there.

i agree Kenyon, Denison, and COllege of Wooster are underrated. went to Kenyon over the summer-stunning...great bookstore. lots of kids applying including a few of my best firends. i think all LACs are underrated

By Bobmcc (Bobmcc) on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 02:41 am: Edit

in re davidson: a survey of this years incoming students indicated that 1.law, 2. medicine were careers most frequently cited. For years Davidson has been trying to get away from it's image as a "finishing" school for lawyers and doctors. And to its credit, its faculty is tops. But diverse, it's not. 52% of students come from private schools (i THINK it's 34% Duke). On an admitted students weekend we noted ONE non-caucasion family.

If you're a bit "eccentric" w/ otherwise fine qualifications, I got the impression that Davidson really WOULD like you to apply. The school wants to diversify - it's broadening the appliant pool that's proving harder. They do have a fair bit of merit music money..but it's for performance, not composition.

They accepted our son...and he'd written an long, very sarcastic essay essentially saying the Davidson honor code was a crock. (I think he actually wanted to be rejected from that one school) - he'd applied to please us. Also..their admissions people are VERY helpful and friendly. If you have questions about the social scene, setting, they were very up front about describing where Davidson is now and where they hope to be in the future.

By Patient (Patient) on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 08:26 pm: Edit

I also found the admissions people very nice. Such a refreshing change of pace from calls to another competitive LAC where they just seemed to enjoy telling you how busy and in demand they are.

My son's friends are a very diverse group and I guess that environment would take some getting used to. Thanks for the candid answer.

By Macsuile (Macsuile) on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 10:49 pm: Edit

Here are some stats on William & Mary:

- Second oldest U.S. university (Harvard is first)
- Oldest U.S. law school
- Birthplace of Phi Beta Kappa
- Alma mater of Washington, Jefferson, Monroe and Tyler
- Most selective U.S. public university
- Third highest SAT scores in the South (only Duke and Rice are higher)
- Highest entering freshman GPAs of any public university (Berkeley is close)
- Fastest growing public university endowment
- Outstanding accounting, biology, chemistry, history and physics departments

As you can see, William & Mary has an amazing academic tradition. Yes, the grading scale is somewhat deflationary and the course offerings are not as extensive as some other schools, but William & Mary is a school high on tradition which doesn't subscribe to fads where everyone graduates cum laude and there is a supermarket of course offerings. The school is committed to the British university model which is human-scale as opposed to other university models which focus on research and increasing enrollments. W&M may not be for everyone but a degree from there has timeless substance, something you can't find from most other U.S. schools which are constantly trying to reposition or recreate themselves.