|By Ku1185 (Ku1185) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 04:34 am: Edit|
Okay, first off, here are my stats:
1400 SAT (660V, 740M)
Now I'm HOPING for a 700 for SAT in writing, math, and history. I have absolutely no idea what schools to apply to other than 2 or 3 (NYU, Rutgers, SUNY Binghamton?) What schools can I apply to both in reach and good match range. I would like to stay in the east coast somewhere (Pennsylvania, CT, Mass, NY, NJ, MD, VA maybe, etc.) Financial issues are quite a big problem for me so unless it's a good school, I don't want to be paying too much money for it. PLEASE HELP. I don't know what's going on at the moment. I thought I'd start off by researching some schools and perhaps taking in some suggestions. THANKS.
EDIT: Also, I have taken several AP classes and rest are mostly honor classes. I was considering a major in either social science or psychology.
|By Redbeard (Redbeard) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 08:38 am: Edit|
A little more info would help:
Your state (it helps us find those little nooks and crannies of your state university system that might fit)
Your gender (important for some majors)
Your school type (public or private) and,
Your year (it looks like junior, but if you're a senior then we will advise with a little more exigency).
|By Crnchycereal (Crnchycereal) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 01:31 pm: Edit|
You'll almost definitely get into Rutgers, especially if you live in NJ. And if you do, depending on your rank/percentile, you'll get at least a few thousand dollars a year (6000 if you're in the top 5%, 5000 if you're in the top 10%, 3000 if you're in the top 15%). I'm not sure about the other schools. NYU would be a reach because you have no ECs...speaking of which, how could you have spent your entire high school career without ANY ECs? Come on, man! Life is so boring without some activities in there!
|By Ku1185 (Ku1185) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 03:11 pm: Edit|
I am from New Jersey, and I'm a male, and I attend a public school and I'm a senior.
I do a lot of things, it's just I don't do it with the school =P
|By Ku1185 (Ku1185) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 11:10 pm: Edit|
|By Argilospsychi (Argilospsychi) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 02:35 am: Edit|
Dude! Get yourself a life! It will make the college rejection process go much smoother. I speak from experience.
I often picked activities/classes/ec simply so i could get into good schools. But i didn't anyways!! So just do what you want.
|By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 10:44 am: Edit|
Agrilo- The OP said he does a lot of things - just not school related things. MAny activities outside of school EC's can count in college admissions as well. Of course, it all depends on what the OP meant by a lot of things...
|By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 10:58 am: Edit|
To the OP - I'd suggest you check out the honors college at Rutgers. I'd also suggest you look at the University of Virginia and William & Mary. Although they are tough to get into as an out of state resident, their tuitions are low for out of state residents. The SUNY system is pretty expensive for out-of-state residents by the way.
I'd also suggest you look at some private schools. You have good stats and should be able to get some merit aid and/or financial aid. I'd say find some schools that are reaches (Yale, UPenn for instance) but still give good financial aid. However, also look for schools that are either matches or safeties for you where you would be most likely to get merit aid in addition to financial aid) Here are some suggestions for psychology/sociology to get you started (note: these are schools at a variety of levels of competitiveness in terms of entry. They all have decent psychology/sociology programs. You'll have the best chance of getting merit money from schools that are slightly below your stats.)
Clark University (excellent for psychology, you would probably get some money from them)
Allegheny College (also good for psychology, small liberal arts college in western PA with good financial aid and merit money)
Connecticut College (excellent school, a match for your stats)
Drew U (you would probably qualify for merit money here, good psychology department)
George Washington U
Hobart (another small LAC where you would probably get some merit money)
U of Rochester (a match)
Tufts (a match)
Boston U (not always the best with financial aid but worth a look)
Rhodes College (TN)
|By Shennie (Shennie) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 11:42 am: Edit|
A word about EC's - they don't have to be school related. Scouts, outside music groups, community service, recreational sports, lots of things. If you are in activities that are not school related they are still ECs and should be listed on your application.
|By Ku1185 (Ku1185) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 03:48 pm: Edit|
wow, thanks alot carolyn. I've only decided on four schools (Rutgers, George Washington, NYU, U of Mich) and I think i'll add several more schools to that list after looking up some of your suggestions. Thanks! any more imput would be helpful.
I thought tufts and bucknell would be hard to get into... but I guess i'll try for the hell of it
EDIT: Regarding EC's, I have minimal out of school activities and they were only for 1 year during my freshman year. As for work, I usually help my dad out every once in a while on a weekend so I don't think that would be considered a formal job.
|By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 04:46 pm: Edit|
Ku - your grades and scores are fine but your lack of EC's (in-school and out) may hurt you at some of the more competitive schools like Tufts. That doesn't mean you shouldn't give them a try - just be aware of that possibility. However, your stats are good enough that you will still have many choices to apply to. Schools like Clark, Drew, etc. will probably look more at your stats than your EC's. I'll see if I can think of a few other schools for you if I get a chance.
|By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 04:53 pm: Edit|
Ku - you might also start thinking of activities in a different way. What are your passions? How do you spend your spare time? Do you have any talents or interests that you have pursued on your own? If the answer is yes, some of those things might help make up for the lack of organized EC's. For example: if you're into computers and have taught yourself computer programming, that's an activity. Or maybe you write poetry or do art in your spare time. Or maybe you've been involved with church activities. In any case, think of some things that would indicate to adcom officers that you do more than eat, sleep and study. Hope this helps.
|By Ku1185 (Ku1185) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 05:59 pm: Edit|
Hmm, my current passion is music. I listen to a lot of classical but I can't play anything very well =P. But regarding computers, I have built many many people computers and fixed computers, mostly for friends or relatives etc. But how would I add that to my application? =P
|By Redbeard (Redbeard) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 08:07 am: Edit|
Carolyn's list was terrific, but, at the top, she said UVa would be less expensive because it was a state school. For out-of-staters, the yearly bill will top $30,000 at UVa. Cheaper than an Ivy-class school, but not by much. I suspect, Ku, that you have found the same thing at UMich. The two are very close in terms of prestige and quality. UVa, however, is much closer to the East Coast, one of your original goals. (Although Charlottesville is some distance from the Boston-Washington urban island).
At any rate, you will have a busy month going down Carolyn's list ;-)>
|By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 10:55 am: Edit|
Ku -Redbeard makes a good point. Any state school for an out-of-state resident is going to be more expensive than your own in-state school of Rutgers. But, again, don't let cost necessarily deter you at this early stage. Your goal should be to get an overview of what you like and don't like, where you'd be happiest. As you look at various schools, public and private, pay attention to what they say about financial aid and merit scholarships on their web sites and in their literature. Some will be more generous than others.
As for your activities: yes, building computers would be worth mentioning on your college applications. Most college applications will have a section to list "other activities." You'll have to look at each application to see where it would fit best but I would say you should mention it, especially if you have done it for others.
|By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 11:05 am: Edit|
Not to overwhelm you, but here are a few other schools that you might want to look at for psychology/social sciences. Again, you might be able to get a merit scholarship at some of these schools:
University of Pittsburgh, Manhattanville (NY), Goucher, Syracuse, Franklin & Marshall.
Your local library or school guidance office should have a copy of the Fiske Guide to Colleges, the Princeton Review or the Kaplan Guide (also available at bookstores). You should be able to find descriptions of all of these schools there as a starting point to your search.
|By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 11:31 am: Edit|
Suny is not that expensive for out of staters unless the new increases are not reflected on the website yet. I suggest going to a Borders or Barnes and Nobles and looking at the front part of that enormous US News and World report college guide book. It has a listing of the least expensive state schools, and it gives the out of state costs for them as well. It is surprising how some state schools are pretty expensive for their own residents, but the out of state tab is pretty reasonable. Then there are some like UVA and Wm & Mary that add a surcharge for out of staters. If you look at James Madison, also a VA state school, they are extremely reasonable for out of staters. They did not add that surcharge.
There is also a list of the most expensive private schools and as you work your way down the list you can see many colleges that are not as expensive or close to the cost of the out of state public school prices. You can than check out their financial aid and merit aid status in another section of this book which will give you a good picture of what you might be able to expect from any particular college.
Your stats are high enough though that there would be state schools that may have some merit money for you. That is one drawback to applying to a state school that is not your state. There are packages not available to out of staters.
|By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 01:53 pm: Edit|
SUNY Binghamton out of state costs $20,940
UVA out of state costs $27,760
UMich out of state $28,786 (number is slightly out of date, rest are current)
So, yes, there's a big difference in prices for out of state students.
Jamimom - is SUNY raising its tuition for out of state students this year or did I misunderstand?
|By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 03:37 pm: Edit|
$21,095 is what I have for SUNY but I do not know if it includes the increase. It might because when we looked at Binghamton 3years ago, the out of state rate was quite a bargain, far less than Wm & Mary and UVA. Also less than UMDCP and UDel which are now coming in at around $22,000 as compared to James Madision, still a bargain at around $17000. I know several kids at the College of Charlston who are very happy and their parents also feel the school is an excellent match, paying an out of state tab of under $17000. These are tuition,fees, average double room and average board costs I am giving. Considering that some schools such as Duquesne, Rice, Hofstra, Depaul, all private cost about $25,000 a year, and CaseWestern is still under $30,000 even without one of their tuition discounts (for SATs over 1350), the top VA schools and UMich are really in the private school range. I know SuNY has either jacked up their tuition for out of staters or is planning to do so. A ridiculous idea someone got, considering how few out of staters are in the system and how the system could be ever so enhanced with more out of staters. Now there is not even going to be that financial incentive to go SUNY. My son seriously considered Binghamton, and they offered him nearly a full ride. But the 95%+ instate statistic bothered him. He found out that kids come to the school in numbers of 20-50 out of a highschool graduating class, and a lot of the kids really knew each other from NY state events. He felt like he would be odd man out, and he is a very outgoing fellow who has weathered many school transfers. He wanted geographical diversity in a school so there would not be such a built in "clique". In the larger state schools I don't believe it is such a problem because even if the percentage is not so big, if the school as 20000-30000 kids, in absolute numbers you still have a goodly number of out of staters. Binghamton is relatively small for a state school so the under 5% out of state translated to very few, since you have international students in that number too.
|By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 08:32 pm: Edit|
Thanks Jamimom. I got the SUNY figure off of the Binghamton web site so maybe they haven't updated recently. In any case, yes, a bargain if one doesn't mind the lack of geographic diversity. And you raise an excellent point: what are the pro's and con's of attending an expensive public university like UVA or UMICH over choosing a private school with comparable tuition (and the possibility of more merit and financial aid?
|By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 02:49 pm: Edit|
I believe that the public universities have merit awards for those who are superqualified (with excellent stats or have a hook the school wants). The problem with applying out of state to a public school is that you will be last on the list to get financial aid whereas in your own state you would be first in line (better apply as early as possible though) and with private schools you are on equal footing with everyone else, at least geographically. I know that UVA has the Jefferson Scholars program that is very generous but those kids who qualify are truly top notch and there are only a very small number of these grants given each year.
I hear a lot of people tell kids to just apply wherever they want and fill out the financial aid forms, but my experiences with financial aid has not been so great. There is a lot more merit within aid than one would expect, so a midqualified candidate is generally not going to get a very good package even from schools that give 100% of EFC. Kids who need money should apply to several school with true safety ranges for their stats in order to get some selection as to where to go. It feels so much better to weigh college A vs college B vs State U vs Local U and choose instead of being stuck with the one saftey you tacked on your list because you focused on all of the top guns when you sent out the apps. I see a lot of that going on. And the kids and parents look at me like I'm crazy when I bring this up. But come April when the offers are in, the decisions have to be made and the check has to be cut, it's a different story. Mom and Dad get cold feet when they realize that Noname U cost $45,000+ a year, and all of a sudden that free ride to State U, or even the $15000 tab to State U, starts looking awfully good. Better to have a few choices.
I worked with a young lady a few years ago whose family made too much to qualify for any aid, but were too strapped to pay much for college. All the counselors, friends, acquaintances and other advisees were certain she would get something. I could see pretty clearly that she would only get something if she applied to a school where she would be among their very top students, and those schools were too low in prestige for her parent and her to seriously consider. I prevailed on them to apply to 3 additional colleges (she had a dozen already on her list) that I was pretty sure she could get a nice scholarship. Well, when the chips were down, all her parents wanted to pay was $20,000 (including money that the girl had saved and could earn) for the schools where she was accepted and the only schools she could afford were the 3 I had picked for her and State U. She really did not want to go to a huge school, and her parents felt the same way. She was definitely a small school person. State U was the only large school on her list and she had applied only because her school counselor routinely includes it on everyone's list. She ended up comparing packages among Albright, Muhlenberg and Susquehanna colleges, and all parties were rewarded egotistically as well as financially since all 3 schools truly wanted her. Everyone was happy in the end and she did not feel like she was stuck with only one option. She loves the school she ended up in and has excelled. She will be applying to lawschool.
It really helps to have choices in May, even if your top schools have turned you down. And I am seeing finances becoming a big issue in choosing colleges. Parents will break the bank to pay for HPY et al, but to come up with $45,000+ for a school that is not in that league is often a whole different story.
Carolyn, I am ever so impressed with the choices you come up with for these kids. You always offer a broad spectrum of schools in selectivity and final cost. As you probably have noticed, some of those schools are met with hostile reactions from kids who truly feel they deserve better. It isn't until the chips are down that they see how they should have included a spectrum of choices in their college lists.
|By Carolyn (Carolyn) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 04:44 pm: Edit|
Jamimom, Thanks for your thoughts. I too believe that everyone needs to have more than one safety where they will be truly happy on their list. I've often thought that it may even be better to start by picking out safety schools and then work your way up to picking out one or two reaches. To me, the smartest students don't get too attached to any one "dream school" until the acceptance envelopes are in the mail.
It's frustrating to see so many students focus in on the same few schools without considering other options.
The reason I asked about the financial aid and state schools issue is because I have found that, at least here in California, some of the private schools can be very generous to top students. One girl I helped with developing a list of schools only thought she could afford a UC. I encouraged her to look at private schools (she wanted to stay in Calif) and she ended up getting a free ride from a very good LAC. The UC's only offered her large loans - no merit money or grants. I've seen this happen with a few other students as well. I know it doesn't always work out this way but sometimes it can be a good idea not to rule out anything too quickly.
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