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'sigh'

I live in Florida, and at my huge higschool it goes like this.. the slackers go to Daytona Beach Community College, the ones who did just ebough to get by throughout highschool go to UCF or UNF... those slightly more academically inclined go to FSU (also many of the unweathly IB students, whom get paid go there)... the majority of the people I know will go to UF, a fairly good school, where it is way to easy to gain your freshman 15 in alcohol... last comes the U of Miami, for those who can afford it, but arent quite up to par for top 25 schools out of state.

Me, I always thought Id be the one to bust out and go to one of the southern ives of my dreams. I never once expected to be caged into staying in Florida... me? UF? Puh!

That is, until I told my dad I was planning on applying to Dartmouth, Brown, Vanderbilt, Duke... etc., My heart broke when he winced slightly, faked a smile, and told me i was wonderful, and he would "figure out" a way to manage to send me there.

I told my mom. Ever the bitter pill... she ranted at me for 20 minutes on how I was stupid and selfish fo even considering those universities... according to her, UCF had been good enough for her, and UF, FSU, etc. had been good enough for her 8 brothers and sisters... and they would damn well be good enough for me.

So, In one day, my long shots, my reaches, and my matches were gone. Im left with one choice, on *safety* left... UF. I told my dad that I want to go there now... and I fake a smile, my best friend and my boyfried are happy now, bc thats where they will be going. I pretend that Im psyched at the thought of being with them... but inside... Im screaming at the top of my lungs and banging my fists on the floor.

It just kills me, to have one choice. I have a C+ in calculus, and I dont care. Ive gotten a total of 2 Bs in my life, and I tortured myself for weeks over them, and now I dont care. Where my head should be filled with piecewise fuctions... it's filled with... "UF could care less, why should I? I could get in there with my eyes closed, why keep them open?"


I know... Im being a big baby, but I hate it that my future has been laid out for me before I had a chance to affect it.'


lol, uh... sorry to lay this bitter anicdote of self pity on ya... flame me in your posts if you like...

i just had to get it out

By Boxmaker1917 (Boxmaker1917) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 12:32 am: Edit

Well, perhaps you have the makings of your personal essay in there somewhere....

The most elite schools in the country can admit 100% valedictorians, Merit Finalists and those who found the cure for something as their Freshman class. They don't. They want a "well-rounded" student body and as a result, will turn down a "perfect" candidate in favor of one that diversifies the student body. Depending on who is already enrolled and who applies, they might need more Chinese girls from Idaho or chess players from Mississippi. The point is that you may never know why you are admitted or rejected from a college. If they want you, they will pay for you. YOU could be just the candidate that the college of your dreams wants. In addition, and admissions officer might be more impressed with a second-tier candidate who really wants to attend a school than a top-flight candidate who views that school as a 4th or 5th choice. So, if you are interested in a school, apply! Let THEM be the ones to say "no" -- don't make that decision for them. Apply to a safety but don't give up so easily on your matches and dreams. If they want you, you will find a way to agree on a financial package. And some of the schools that you mentioned have very nice endowments and may offer you more than you think.
Having said all of that, please also remember that you can get an outstanding education at almost any school you attend. It is up to you to get the most out of your education.
Everyone is entitled to a "funk." You've now had yours so get to work! Talk to your calc teacher and arrange for some private sessions to go over what you don't get. Ditto for other classes. No one will give you a gift of grades or $$ but if you really want to attend a school, you yourself can make your dream a reality.

By Momstheword (Momstheword) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 12:39 am: Edit

That's it? You will give up so easily on a dream because you've encountered some opposition? You won't sit down and calmly, intellectually, articulate your well-thought-out substantive reasons for wanting to go? You won't apply to your dream schools and see what happens? You have no intention of pursuing financial aid/ student loans, etc.? You have no intention of enlisting your dad's help in perhaps getting your mother to look at the matter in a different light? Hmmm. Just wondering....

By Laceycheer (Laceycheer) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 01:00 am: Edit

Boxmaker... Yeah, well, my "funk" is just in calc fortunately... and its only progress reports... can bring it up, my only other academic, AP chem, i have a 101% in, so i should be okay.

... and moms, financial aid is out of the question... my parents make enough to be overlooked, but they are draining their own bank accounts, (theyve been in a legal divorce battle for about 4 years now)... and plain and simple, they are not going to let me go somewhere where I will need to take out a loan... So any aid i get would have to be merit-based, Im a great student bc I work hard... but I am nothing astounding. I still plan on applying to Dartmouth bc they have scholarships for native americans, but Im afraid that I simply do not have to stats to get into there. ->
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?757/757

By Momstheword (Momstheword) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 10:29 am: Edit

No answer to my first question? (Which was asked in a kindhearted way, since I am a person who faced serious parental oppostion in her day re: college and managed to hammer out a happy compromise and live pretty well happily ever after) :-)
So, still wondering what your answer to the first question is....

By Laceycheer (Laceycheer) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 10:48 am: Edit

Talk it out with my mother? Shes not going to come around, but she doesnt need too... I live with my father, its his choice. Its just, that my mother speech made me horribly guilty about the whole situtation. I gave in bc I'm scared that she is right... going away would seriously hurt my father financially. I love my dad, the two of us are our own little family, and I know hed go through hell to give me what I want... but that doesnt mean I want to send him there

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 11:02 am: Edit

Well, I would apply anyway. You never know if you'll even get in. If you do, there's still financial aid packages to compare.

Also look into scholarships. There are very many good schools up North in which you might get some good scholarships (although they may not be "Ivies"). Apply to a lot of scholarship programs. Some schools, like Cooper Union, don't have any tuition. If you get accepted there, it's free (and Cooper Union is a great school too). There are also several government programs (NIH, ROTC) in which they'll pay for your college tuition (everything- tuition, room/board, and stipend for food and books), but then you have to work for them for a number of years. You can go ROTC and serve in the Reserves if necessary.

By Xyz155 (Xyz155) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 12:00 pm: Edit

oh stop complaining. UF is an amazing school, are you really trying to tell us that you would be happy going away to some college for 40k each year knowing that your family cannot afford it and you and them are going to be in huge debt for years? Grow up and goto UF and make the most of it. You will get a great education, you will have a great time, perfect weather all year around, and your family will be happy. What else do you want out of life?

By Ellemenope (Ellemenope) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 01:12 pm: Edit

No reason to slam all of the college doors at this stage of the game. Apply and see where the chips fall. You could end up at one of your dream schools with a financial package that makes it all possible. Or you could be rejected by all of your reaches and end up going to UF anyway. Or you could end up someplace inbetween. Then you will have some tough choices to make. But at least there will be choice and it will be YOUR decision.

There are many who go to a cheaper state alternative for undergrad and go on to one of their reach schools for grad work.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 01:28 pm: Edit

You will undoubtable be 18, a adult by the time you attend c ollege.
Ask your parents to commit to a figure that they can pay for your first year.
That gives you a place to start, there is merit aid, and subsidized/unsubsidized loans available, workstudy as well as grants.
You can decide where you want to go,apply, compare the packages and then decide. Don't say no to yourself, the world says "no" enough.

By Ellemenope (Ellemenope) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 01:33 pm: Edit

But, Laceycheer, what about the answer to Momstheword's question: "That's it? You will give up so easily on a dream because you've encountered some opposition?"

I'm reminded of something from Joseph Campbell's "The Power of Myth:"

"BILL MOYERS: Do you ever have this sense when you are following your bliss, as I have at moments, of being helped by hidden hands?

CAMPBELL: All the time. It is miraculous. I even have a superstition that has grown on me as the result of invisible hands coming all the time--namely, that if you do follow your bliss you put yourself on a kind of track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living. When you can see that, you begin to meet people who are in the field of yor bliss, and they open the doors to you. I say, follow your bliss and don't be afraid, and doors will open where you didn't know they were going to be."

Following your bliss often requires sacrifice and courage. It's clear that you feel guilty at what you perceive to be the financial sacrifices that your parents may have to make. Is your commitment to your dream strong enough that YOU will make financial sacrifices to achieve it and have to courage to continue on in the face of adversity?

If so, then doors will open. . .

If not, then bow your head sorrowfully and apply to UF. I'm sure there must be an honors program available that you might find very challenging and could give you feel of a smaller college.

By Clickspring (Clickspring) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Have you considered applying to the New School? Isn't that UF's honors college?

By Laceycheer (Laceycheer) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 02:36 pm: Edit

Thank You, El. I'm looking into what opportunities are available at Dartmouth bc of my being 1/4 Muskogee. I dont know what other Merit based I could qualify for elsewhere, but i'll keep looking.

XYZ... ouch. excuse me, but what have I said that makes you think I WOULD go somewhere that would put my father in debt? If my consience was clear about that, I wouldnt have a problem, he certainly would go into debt to make me happy. But I refuse to let that happen, thats why I felt like UF was my only choice. UF is a good school, but I sincerely dont feel like its the school for me...

Emerald- thanks for the advice! lol... actually I wont be 18 when I go to college, I skipped a grade, so I will be 17 for almost my entire freshman year... not that that affects your advice to me.

By Xyz155 (Xyz155) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 02:51 pm: Edit

Look I am sorry I was a bit harsh. This whole college process is getting me really grouchy and I just kinda lose it some times when people start acting like it's impossible to go to a state school and get a good education. If you can do better than a state school then good for you great, but I have worked as hard as I could in high school just so I could even be admitted to colleges like Penn State, Pitt, Michigan State, and even Florida. I just don't appreciate it when people put down colleges just b/c there repuation is not as good as an ivy league college. I think most of us can agree that college is what we make of it and we can go as far as we want to in life from there. Where you go to college does not determine everything. Sorry I was harsh again and good luck w/ everything.

By Laceycheer (Laceycheer) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 03:02 pm: Edit

Its okay, and I really wish you luck! Many of my friends are working hard for UF... and I have been doing my best to help them along the way. Im not even saying State schools arent for me.. UMICH and PENN are awesome its just happens that MY state schools are way too into getting drunk on weeknights, than studying.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 06:58 pm: Edit

Look at your stats and if you are eligible for merit scholarships if you do not think you will get financial aid and add a few good out of state schools to your list.
Fortunately for you UFl is an excellent school; it makes the top 50 most years and is close if not in the group. I don't think you will be getting away from the drinking and partying by going to Penn State. But take a look at few out of state schools and see if you can't get a scholarship. State schools would be tough if you don't have top scores, but Pitt's chancellors scholarship is pretty genererous and I know they like out of staters. Good luck.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 01:20 am: Edit

If you're good enough to have a chance at Dartmouth, you must have good enough stats to have a chance at decent merit aid at some of the tier 1 universities that do give merit aid.

Of course, you'd have to be assertive enough to bother to look for such schools. The other option is for you to consider your whinefest.N

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 11:09 am: Edit

I don't know your stats and just threw out a brief response to your problem. First of all, you are not alone at all in your problem. Though the biggest problem (in my opinion) about college admissions is that so many underpriviliged kids have little or no chance to go to college because of the huge obstacles in front of them starting with lack of family support, another big problem is the population of kids, like you, who though are not underpriviliged in definition, do not have the family support or use of family resources to go to a college they would like to attend even if they could get into the school.
This happens a lot with divorced and blended families because the family resources and morale have often been devastated by the split up of the family. It also happens in affluent homes where Mom and Dad are both grads of State U and they cannot see any reason under the sun why they should pay $40,000+ plus for some other school. Many times they do have a point.
However, you will soon be 18, and considered an adult in all but two ways: 1)drinking 2)college resources. If your parents do not qualify for financial aid by FAFSA and/or Profile standards, you will not be eligible for college financial aid. I'm betting you fit into that category. Or your parents just won't fill out the forms. In cases like yours, if you have excellent grades, test scores, stats, as we call them, you can apply for merit scholarships with your application. You might want to add an letter/essay explaining your situation. You need to research schools that offer merit aid and you need to get moving fast--some of these schools have early deadlines. I'll give a list of the top schools that offer generous merit aid. Your chances are even better if you look at schools with a lower selectivity; they often have full rides for kids who exceed their median SAT/gpa stats.The ivies are not a good deal for you because they do not give merit aid. Dartmouth does have some programs for native americans but you had better call them directly to see if you qualify; some schools require that you are a registered native american--can't just claim that Indian blood, many of us are part Indian. Also, if they require you to go through financial aid to get to any of that money, you are back to the FAFSA and Profile again.
That said, here is a list:
Emory, North Carolina State, UNC/Chapel Hill, Truman State--all with 11/15 deadilines!
Lake Forest College, U of Georgia, 11/26 and 11/30 deadlines
Uof Alabama,Auburn, Bennington, BU, Butler U, Depaul U, U of Iowa, Loyola/NO, U of MD, U of MO/columbia, U of new Mexicon, Purdue, Rhodes College,St Louis U, U of San Francisco, U of Tex/Austin, Tulane, Villanova,Wake Forest all with Dec 1 deadlines
U of NC/ Ashelvill, Presbyterian College, USC with 12/4,12/5, 12/10 deadlines
FSU (if interested), Kenyon, Louisiana state/Baton Rouge, Ohio Northern, Ohio Stte, U of Redlands, U of Rjpde Island, Randolph-Macon, Rutgers,SUNY-Albany, Purchase, Stony Brook, Wash & Lee, U of Wisconsin/Madison--all with 12/15 deadlines.
Clemson with a 12/31 deadline
Uof Del, Denison, Fairfield, Guilford College, Hillsdale, Hobart and William Smith, Lawrence U Northeaster U, ORegon State U, U of Richmond, U of the Southe (sewanee), U of Tennessee/ Knoxville, Vanderbilt, U of Kentucky, George Mason, Tesas A&M, Pacific Lutheran, Seton Hall, SUNY Buffalo---Jan 1 deadlines
Agnes Scott, Austin, Beloit, Birmingham Southern, Bradley, brigham Young, College of Charleston, U of Cincinnati, U of Dayton, Hanover, Hendrix, IIT, Kansas,, Mary Washington, U of Michingan, Minnestota/Twin Cities, Nebraska/Lincoln, U of NC/Greensboro, Pitt, Siena College, SMU, Stetson, Sweet Briar, Texas Christian, Valparaison, Virginia Tech, Wooster, Hope College, Loyola/Chicago, Jan 15 deadlines
Uof Arkansas, Calvin College, Creighton, Florida Inst of Tech, Furman, Gordan, Hiram, Hollins, Uof Maine/orono, Uof Oregon, Marquette, Puget Sound, Rochester Inst of Tech, Rollins, ST Johns U & College of St Benedict, Southwestern, U of Utah, School fo Visual Arts,--Feb 1
Adelphi, Alveron, John Carroll, Eckerd, U of Minnesota/Morris, Montana Tech, West Virginia U, Wittenberg, --Feb 15
Hampton U, Warren Wilson College--Feb 28.

If you are a superstar student, full rides and more await you if you qualify to:
CalTech, Uof Chicago, Davidson,Duke, Emory, Johns Hopkins (half ride), UNC Chapel Hill, Rice, Swarthmore, Vanderbilt,U Va, Wake Forest, Washington U of St Louis, Wash & Lee.
These lists are not comprehensive. We also have:
College of Atlantic, Babson, Bard,Brandeis, Carleton, CMU, Case Western, Claremont McKenna, Colorado College, Cooper Union, U of Florida, Franklin and Marshall, George Washington /georgia Inst of Tech, Grinnell, Hamilton, Harvey Mudd, Holy Cross, U of Il/Urbana-Champaign, Lafeyette, Lehigh, Lewis & Clark, Macalester, Mcgill,
(canada), U of MIchigan, New College, College of New Jersey, NYU,Oberlin, Penn State, Pomoma, Rennselaer Polystech, Uof Richmond, Uof Rochester,St Mary's of MD, Skidmore,College of Wm & Mary, Uof Wisconsin (Madison), Whitman, Wheaton,Worcester Polytech, SUNY Binghamton.
As you can see, you can try a lot of options, Make up a large list of favorite colleges, check for merit scholarships and go for it. Make sure you have varying degrees of selectivity. You will want more colleges than the average kid because you are going for the money without financial aid backing. In addition apply to the Florida schools. You do have good choices there and you may decide that U of Florida is every bit as good as Penn State, for instance. But this way you can be proactive in what you want in a college education.
At your age, my parents were of the mind that I go to a state school where I would get free tuition due to my father's job there. The tuition offer did not extend to any other colleges. I was not of the same mind and applied to 6 other schools that I liked of varying selectivity and got all kinds of interesting offers. I also got an ROTC scholarship that would have been a good tuition option. I knew that there just was not the money for me to go to a small private college which was what I wanted, in the northeast unless I got scholarships. Dade South Community College was my dad's school so I'm even from the same state you are and my choices from my family's standpoint did not even include FSU or U of Florida. Comm college followed by one of the 4 year state schools for the remaining two years was my dad's plan. After all, I wanted to be a teacher and why did I need a private school for that? I ended up getting my scholarships, and working through 4 years pretty much on my own. As did my brothers. None of them went to college in Florida. Though all of them applied to U of Florida. So your problem is not unique and as other parents have noted, it is up to you to rectify it. You do have options and at this time you have to get moving fast. Good luck to you.

By Laceycheer (Laceycheer) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 11:24 am: Edit

Thank you! I appreciate you making that list... it even has some of the shools id love to go to! ie. Duke and Vandy, my sis lives in nashville, and I love the city. And as far as the native american thing, yes Im registered, alls id need to do is make a trip up to alabama get the records to prove that, anyways thatnx again! BTW, my stats go as follows- 1260 SAT, taken as a sophmore, retaken in Nov, waiting for scores, hoping for a 1350...4.11 GPA, 2 varsity sports, 6 clubs, many com service hours tutoring hs and elem students, and work at a local hospital

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 12:47 pm: Edit

laceycheer, just checked out your stats and aspirations. If I were you, would talk to the admissions offices at Dartmouth about that native american heritage and see if there are any scholarships, not financial aid associated with it. I don't think so, but I really do not know for sure.
Looking at your plans and hopes for the future, you remind me of my niece. She had SATs and grades similar to yours. She is now in med school but she did not go the eminent college route and instead went to a nurturing LAC where they helped her into a med school. I suggest the same for you. Fortunately, those schools are the ones that have the most merit scholarships available for someone with your stats. Unless you bring your SATs way up, the more prestigious scholarships are a long shot for you. Actually they are a long shot period. But if you can get a nice package from a small LAC, that would hellp your financial situation, prepare you for med school apps and get you out of the State U situation.

By Northstarmom (Northstarmom) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 03:36 pm: Edit

Your being Native American does put you in line for some merit scholarships, including at some schools in the first tier, and at plenty of second tier schools.
You, though, need to do the hard work of checking out schools' web pages to see what's available.

If your parents refuse to do the extensive paperwork for you to apply for need-based aid (which you may qualify for at some of the most expensive schools), that will sharply reduce your options. You need to talk to your parents now.

While schools like Emory and Vanderbilt say they have merit aid, I have read indications that they use such aid only for students who also have financial need. My son had superb qualifications for a major scholarship at Vandy, which required a separate application. He wasn't even interviewed though despite being a URM, too. We hadn't applied for need-based aid for him. Yet, when he turned down Vandy, they sent him a personal follow-up telling him that if he changed his mind about not going, to let them know immediately.

Liberal arts colleges where you might have a good chance of merit aid include Union College, NY State, which has a hard time attracting URMs.

More than likely you'll have the scores to get full tuition from Fla. public schools, which means that colleges elsewhere will have to come up with a lot of $ for your parents to probably agree to allow you to go elsewhere.

Remember you also can take out loans.

By Iska (Iska) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 05:17 pm: Edit

Jamimom, you are awesome! Great job.