Click here to go to the NEW College Discussion Forum

Do I need to cut down from 8 schools?

REACH:
Brown
Swarthmore

MATCH:
Barnard
Northwestern

SAFETY:
George Washington
Sarah Lawrence

AUDITION SCHOOLS:
NYU Tisch
Carnegie Mellon

1400/2260 (800 Verbal and Writing. No Math SAT2)
4.3W/3.98UW, #1 in class of 165
Great ECs, no sports but lots of leadership and work in one creative field and substantial community involvement---active in community theater, run own company, help manage another, conceived and am helping to implement a program in the library to get young kids to read, very involved with the public library.
Good recs---probably both from college English profs. Maybe a supp or two from alums.
I'm from rural CA.

I feel like I need more safeties, but my list also feels overlong. Any input or suggestions?

By Divingin (Divingin) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 09:35 pm: Edit

i'd make sure i had a pretty good safety list, in general. you have no idea who will take you and who won't.

By Kingdvl (Kingdvl) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Your list isn't overlong. Northwestern is a reach too, rather than a match.

By Haon (Haon) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 01:04 am: Edit

8 is a good number. I applied to 9. If you get your SATs up above 1450 you'll be in great shape...they're good enough as is so don't worry if you don't retake.
Northwestern is probably a reach, but I think you have a good, wide range of selectivities in these schools.

Divingin--Noshiksagoddess will definitely get into GW.

Noshiksagoddess--A safety should be a school that you're 100% sure you will get into. It should ALSO be a school that you'd be very happy attending. You really only need one safety. Two is not a bad idea (to give yourself a choice), but if you'd be happy at either of your two safeties I wouldn't be concerned with adding more. if you're going to add more schools, add more matches...2-3 reaches is good, you probably want 2-3 matches as well.

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 02:06 am: Edit

Yeah...since my safeties are both extremely pricey, I thought maybe having two options would be good.

I think I got at least a 660 or 670 on the Math portion of the SAT1 this month, so that would bring my score up to 1460-70.
And I have some URM status as well (I don't know if that matters)---Hispanic and Cherokee. It's gaming the system, since I'm very much a white Jewish girl (and even my Hispanic connection is an argentine great-grandfather with Swiss parents), but I figure every little bit helps.

Can you suggest any matches I should look at?
Thank you :-)

By Nealp (Nealp) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 12:38 am: Edit

i'm apping to 14. one safety. three matches. 10 uber reaches. yay for ma' homies in the dough-slingin' sunday.

By Nealp (Nealp) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 11:48 am: Edit

the urm part is BS! you cannot put that in your application. URM Is 100 or 50% blood. not .125%.

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 12:50 pm: Edit

Of course you can put it in your application. It's not like they're going to ask for a bloodtest---I don't know the exact blood requirements, but I don't think it's 50%. Isn't it 1/32 for Native American?

And I don't think it's dishonest to use any minority status I have if it will help my chances of getting in.

By Haon (Haon) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 01:38 pm: Edit

There is a specific number for URM legitimate status...I don't know it but you should definitely look it up--if a university hypothetically would find out that you didn't meet the number they WILL rescind their offer of admissions whether or not it depended on the URM status.

If you meet the number, by all means, put it down, it helps TONS (especially native american).

Why are you looking at performance schools? What instrument do you play?

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 02:11 pm: Edit

Where would I look up such a thing? I'm searching, but haven't found anything yet. :-\

Are you sure a university would rescind its offer of admission if somehow they found out the I was only 1/8 Hispanic when they never actually give a specific percentage one must meet? That doesn't make much sense. How can they penalize you for breaking a rule they never made?

I'm auditioning for musical theater programs, but I don't play an instrument---well, sort of the piano, but I'm no virtuoso.

By Noemie (Noemie) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 04:39 pm: Edit

Most scholarships for hispanics ask that at least 1/2 of your parent's heritage be hispanic, so I'm guessing colleges go by the same standard. Don't be a fraud.

By Nealp (Nealp) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 07:46 pm: Edit

being 1/8 hispanic would NOT NOT NOT add any cultural flavor to the campus. DO you still have any hispanic culture??? or any native american culture??? the purpose of URM, other than the obvious one of AA, is to increase cultural diversity, not percent of cultural blood ratios... liar.

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Sunday, October 19, 2003 - 08:11 pm: Edit

...cultural flavor? Oh, I certainly would add some. Jewish and Irish, the cultures I identify with and grew up with. But these cultures aren't appreciated by the colleges. If I technically am associated with a race/ethnicity they want at their school, why shouldn't I tell them that?

And what exactly is cultural flavor? Just a difference in skin color? In language? Shoudl a Hispanic student dance the flamenco or be deeply religious? Should a black student speak Swahili? What kind of cultural flavor are you talking about?

By Haon (Haon) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 04:36 pm: Edit

Call admissions and ask if they have any official determination for when you "achieve" minority status.

AA is a great idea in principle, and a crap shoot in practice, good luck with everything...if admissions tells you you're qualified, go for it...it doesn't exactly make me happy but you'll fulfil exactly what colleges are asking for.

By Nealp (Nealp) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 10:31 pm: Edit

if you can engineer yourself, go for it. but i personally do not think that you should mark hispanic. i mean, after all, they want black students. we all originally came from africa (by latest theory). I will mark african american on my applications!! yay

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 02:31 am: Edit

bump

By Toamerica (Toamerica) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 01:53 pm: Edit

WHy would they need a blood sample to prove you are Native American???

By Dylan (Dylan) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 03:24 pm: Edit

What's the legal definition of Native American? Or of any of these races? I mean, if I put down that I'm Hispanic, what are they going to say? "No you're not!" "Uh...yes I am." "No you're not." "Says who?" See what I'm getting at?

By Toamerica (Toamerica) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 04:00 pm: Edit

yeah, that does make sence, there is no way of proving the contrary, maybe all should put N.A. and hope that'll increase the chances, they wont ask for proof

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 08:04 pm: Edit

bump.
My SAT1 just incresed to a 1460 (V800M600 + V740M660 = V800M660)

By Polly (Polly) on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 03:31 am: Edit

Oh, do they count the SAT scores separately?

By Gadad (Gadad) on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 08:32 am: Edit

Nosh . . .
I'm a little surprised to see Swarthmore and the MT program at Carnegie Mellon on the same list. Swarthmore is the most intense liberal arts program in the country, and you're no doubt up to it. The MT program at CMU however is a conservatory-style program. You take one History course, one English course, and a rudimentary computer skills workshop your freshman year and that's all the academics there are! Everything else is music, theater and dance.
If you're serious about Musical Theater, you need to apply to a number of programs. Harvard accepts 11% of its applicants and Julliard only 8%, and we think of them as highly selective. But MT programs typically accept only 3-6% of those who audition. And you can audition perfectly and be bypassed because you're a soprano and they're up to their necks in sopranos!
My daughter has credentials similar to yours and wants to major in MT. It's frustrating that more MT programs aren't at top-level institutions (though Southern Cal has one - too close to home for you?). Northwestern has a musical theater "certificate" program (not a degree) that you might want to investigate.

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 02:06 pm: Edit

A couple years ago I was emphatic: I wanted a conservatory musical theater program. And then I took stock and realized that I wasn't sure I could give up everything else I love: literature, forensics, poetry, astrophysics, political debate...for musical theater. But that's what I want to do and conservatory prepares one for a job in the theater world...but on the other hand...
Also, I know that the acceptance rates for conservatory programs are insanely low, and I think I have a good chance at most schools with my academics.

Has your daughter read the Performing Arts Major's College Guide? It's an extremely useful book...

By Gadad (Gadad) on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 05:11 pm: Edit

We have that book - I think the pointers and strategies are timeless, but the latest edition is 1998, so the institutional recommendations are somewhat dated. Stay in touch - I'll be interested in seeing how your search progresses.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 01:42 pm: Edit

CMU has a drama program that is not as exclusive of other courses as the MT program. If you audition for the MT program, you can also request consideration for the drama option.
I think you have a very nice spread of schools and no, under the circumstances, 9 is not too many. I would add a state school as a safety--if you are from NY, you can pick up to 4 SUNYs on one ap and no essay or recs are needed. It's very simple and the ap goes to Albany and the info sent to the schools you pick. All of your schools are quite pricey and you just never know how things could be in May when it comes time to make your decision. I always recommend a true safety school.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Whoops, saw the CA residency. Get a UC app instead for safety.
Also regarding the URM, I would not put yourself down as Hispanic or Am Indian unless you have been doing so consistently on your college boards and other things that will go to the colleges. You might be eligible for National Merit standing if you were Hispanic. There are all sorts of things that can happen when you list yourself as such and if the school thinks you are playing games, it could be to your detriment. You are a strong candidate without doing this.
A friend of mine's daughter was 1/8 American Indian and related this to an ivy school. The school responded with a request for her registration number--something they had no idea about. Apparently in order to be considered Indian, it isn't just the percent ancestry. There is a registry, and you are entitled to all sorts of benefits if you qualify for it. I would anonymously call the admissions office of each school to find out the exact policy on URM before doing this. Just so you do not get embarrased.

By Ksolo (Ksolo) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 03:25 pm: Edit

Noshiksagoddess:

If several people here are advising you against claiming URM status because of your circumstances surrounding it, you should really heed this warning. I mean, I don't think people here are advising you against it out of insincerity.

I too would advise against claiming URM status if neither one of your direct parents are not 100% Hispanic, nor Native American. And if you were to get accepted, much of the good schools, especially the elite, require minorities to attend meetings, field trips, and even sessions before school begins. And sometimes even when school is in session, minorities are required to to attend certain programs/events.

And then imagine if the shoe was put on the other foot, and an African American, Hispanic, or Native American, who had 1/10 white ancestry in their lineage, claimed to be Caucasian? You think such a person would be perceived favorably?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 11:59 pm: Edit

I am not advising Noshiksa goddess one way or the other. I am just pointing out some pitfalls in claiming URM if a school follows up on this claim. I also gave some examples of some possible discrepancies that may arise. For example, if she has taken the PSAT and SAT, and has not registered as a Hispanic, and got a score that is noteworthy enough to be a Hispanic scholar under National Merit rules, that is a flag. If she finds herself eligible for a minority scholarship, and is asked to elaborate, again, she may find herself embarrassed. If she is assigned to a registered Indian or Hispanic for an interview, again she may find herself explaining her ancestral ties. All of these situations can be easily resolved if she checks with each admissions office and finds out what exactly is their definition of URM and if she qualifies.
Since she already is an excellent candidate with wise school choices, it makes no sense for her to play games in an already winning position. It can only hurt her if it is perceived that she is trying to "pull one over." That she is even wondering and questioning and mulling over the issue is a strong sign that she does not feel quite comfortable with claiming URM. I know American Indians and Hispanics who have as tenuous blood ties as she does but they are confident and consistent in claiming their ancestry. They have a history of being a URM and did not conveniently become one upon learning about favorable college admissions policies. I think most people are in agreement that it just does not feel quite right for someone to suddenly find a Spanish tie and claim URM at the 11th hour of the college admissions process. But again, feelings are not what this is all about. Pragmatically, if a college feels she is trying to pull a fast one with her URM designation, it could lead to an unfavorable decision. She needs the official stance of each admissions office or she could get burned.
Oh, and I heartily recommend calling the offices anonymously. There is no sense identifying herself as looking for a loophole which could again hurt her if , say, Swarthmore, a small school remembers her as the instant URM when they come across her application.
My opinion nor anyone else's matter in a case like this. She needs the colleges' opinions.

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 12:57 am: Edit

Thank you, Jamimom.
I've decided not to apply as a URM, for most of the reasons you mentioned: since I haven't marked Hispanic on any other documents it would just look inconsistent, etc., etc.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 01:53 am: Edit

Do call just to lay it to rest. I don't think any of us really know how the admissions offices feel about the situation and many other kids might be interested.
I just wanted to bring up a few discrepancies in applying URM all of a sudden when a long lost relative with a ethnic thread appears. I really have not heard of anyone getting called on the Hispanic designation but I know someone who was asked for a tribe registration number when she claimed her long buried Indian heritage. If a school says they don't care how far back and tenuous the connection is, then what the heck? You see, schools want URMs and they are desirable because of their scarcity. I am sure that once someone is accepted to a school and discovers a familial connection to a URM, that school would be glad to include that connection in their census count. I truly do not know the official policy on this and am interested in finding out.