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How would you rank them in order of prestige (not USNews type rankings)?

By Haon (Haon) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 12:43 am: Edit

Harvard Yale Princeton (top tier)

Dartmouth Brown Columbia (second tier)

UPenn Cornell (third tier).

All are excellent. Did I leave anything out?

By Gk06 (Gk06) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 03:43 am: Edit

1. Harvard/Yale
2. Princeton
3. Coluombia
4. Brown
5. Dartmouth
6. Penn
7. Cornell

By Sarbear (Sarbear) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 05:07 am: Edit

i'd switch brown and upenn, or at least move brown down a tier

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 09:48 am: Edit

The number that is used to measure "prestige" amng the ivies is a number that is missing in this years US News rankings. That is yield. Harvard ranks #1 among the ivies each year in yield. That means that more kids who are accepted to Harvard end up going there .Harvard's yield has been about 80%. #2 is Princeton with a yield hovering around the 70% mark. The you have U of Pen with a 55% yield and Cornell with a 33% yield. The other ivies are between these extremes. Penn State, a very popular state school has a 40% yield and UCLa has a 38% yield. Many schools have less than a 25% yield. That is why early decision becomes so important to these schools.
I don't agree with US News with their decision to stop printing the yields . They are another piece of information that can tell the consumers, the students a lot about the school. I don't believe for a minute that by not reporting yield that schools will not be so crazy about early decision. There are too many advantages to a school to favor early decision and the psychology of man favors early decision. It's a losing battle.

By Dadx (Dadx) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:39 am: Edit

Yield is indirectly reported in the # accepted. If you have a lower yield, you have to accept more.

By Pimpdaddy (Pimpdaddy) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 11:37 am: Edit

I like this better:

Harvard Yale Princeton (top tier)

Columbia (second tier)

UPenn Cornell (third tier).

Dartmouth Brown (fourth tier)

By Wisconsinguy (Wisconsinguy) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Actually, I'd say

Harvard Yale Princeton (first tier)

Dartmouth UPenn Wharton, Columbia (second tier)

Brown, Cornell, all else UPenn (third tier)

By Kyle (Kyle) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 01:22 pm: Edit

Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Columbia
UPenn
Cornell
Dartmouth
Brown

I don't know why people think dartmouth and brown are good schools. Other than having low acceptance rates, their programs are not highly regarded at all. Where as Cornell has a good engineering school and UPenn has a good business school, dartmouth and brown don't have much to be proud of.

By Xtech (Xtech) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Columbia
Darthmouth
UPenn
Cornell
Brown

By Lethe (Lethe) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:26 pm: Edit

Wow. Why is Columbia ranked so high on your lists?

By Thenarrator (Thenarrator) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:44 pm: Edit

because columbia kicks ass

By Beachbum (Beachbum) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:51 pm: Edit

You have to remember that Dartmouth is the only "College" in the Ivy League; everything is else is a "University".

So what does that mean: Dartmouth concentrates on the undergraduates. Yes, the undergraduates; so post-doc research might not give Dartmouth departments reputation because the professors focus on teaching, and not on their research.
It always reminds me of the best of both worlds: a LAC education, with the resources of a university.

In college you earn your BA/BS/BSE, whatever... which makes me wonder why some people care so much about prestigious departments. Sure it is a factor, but you're not earning a JD or a MBA or a PhD in college... e.g. Bowdoin college has one of the HIGHEST acceptance rates into law school (in fact the most prestigious ones), but it is a college, and has no law school of it's own.

I don't know, I have my reasons for loving Dartmouth. I don't believe that it should really be compared to the other Ivy League schools because it is so different. I think it should be compared to schools like Williams, or Bowdoin (besides the fact Dartmouth is almost twice the size... o well). Whatever floats your boat I guess.

By Haon (Haon) on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 12:27 am: Edit

I think people compare Dartmouth to Williams and Bowdoin too often.

While Dartmouth is the most LACish of the Ivies, the fact remains, it is still a university. Dartmouth may offer significantly more undergrad focus than other universities, but it still does not compare with LACs such as Williams and Bowdoin. Anybody going to Dartmouth thinking that they will get the same type of an education as you would at Williams or Bowdoin is mistaken.

By Beachbum (Beachbum) on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 12:52 am: Edit

Which is entirely true... but couldn't you say that comparing Dartmouth with, let's say, the University of Pennsylvania. They are 2 entirely different schools, and you couldn't find the same education at both, despite the fact they are "universities". I guess it all burns down to the trite saying: "what kind of school fits you best"...

By Admissioner (Admissioner) on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 02:00 pm: Edit

In the various professional settings (mainly in business) I have been in, as well as internationally (in Europe and Asia), Harvard, Yale and Princeton generally have higher prestige than the other 5 schools. In fact, the other 5 enjoy around the same level of prestige, give or take a notch based on the person assessing.

Please note that Wharton - as opposed to Penn - does receive a higher prestige level than the non-HYP five. Also, Columbia does enjoy higher prestige from some people, but that seems to be based on its graduate (rather than undergraduate) programs.

To those who know the schools, all 8 Ivies are considered excellent - including Brown, Cornell, and Dartmouth (which are less known than the others internationally). One can always find a critic (as this site proves), but generally, there is a reason why the term "Ivy League" has a cache of its own. All 8 schools have a lot to be proud of -- top faculty, top students, top facilities, great quality-of-life -- as do many other non-Ivy schools.

Finally, for those interested, I have found that internationally only Stanford and MIT enjoy similar levels of prestige - not Duke, not CalTech, not Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, Wash U., etc. This does not mean that these schools are lesser; rather, this is simply a brand name recognition factor.

By Sac (Sac) on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 02:26 pm: Edit

Just to make this a little more fun:
Berkeley is another school that is likely to be recognized around the world. I'd guess it is much better known than Brown, for example. How does that fit into the notion of "prestige"?

By Militarygrade (Militarygrade) on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 10:57 pm: Edit

Sac - Berkeley's prestige is one of it's big attractive factors.

I got accepted into UCLA and Berkeley, but chose UCLA based on FinAid.

While UCLA gave me double what Berk was going to give me, I sometimes wish I had gone to Berk instead. Don't get me wrong, I love UCLA, but I kind of wanted the prestige that Berk offers.

By Lethe (Lethe) on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 05:39 pm: Edit

Sorry I have to ask again, but why is Columbia right after HYP?

By I1lmatics (I1lmatics) on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 09:13 pm: Edit

"You have to remember that Dartmouth is the only "College" in the Ivy League; everything is else is a "University". "

Beachbum you went wrong with your first sentence thus i didn't even bother reading the rest of that mumbo jumbo... ever hear of Havard College????

By Marite (Marite) on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Harvard College is part of Harvard University. It does not stand on its own. It has no faculty of its own. Dartmouth is more of a college than other Ivies, but its B-school is very well-regarded.

By Beachbum (Beachbum) on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 09:57 pm: Edit

I think Marite explained it well. Dartmouth is strictly College, with no University title above that. No other Ivy League school can claim that.
In terms of prestigiousness, Dartmouth does rank lower than the rest. Since this is a "prestige" post, than of course Harvard reigns, no contest.
Oh yea, I also rescind my comment about LAC education with resources of a university, and comparing it with Williams and Bowdoin. It's a small-er school, and I like the atmosphere. I think it's the best school for ME, nothing more. Ah well, I'm out.

By Howdydoody (Howdydoody) on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 11:46 pm: Edit

I know Stanford is not Ivy, but where would you put it?

By Lefty9ak (Lefty9ak) on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 12:20 am: Edit

Here is my Ivy + Stanford + MIT list (in order)

Harvard
Yale
Stanford
Princeton
MIT
Columbia
Cornell
UPenn
Dartmouth
Brown

By Gk06 (Gk06) on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 03:29 am: Edit

Harvard/Yale
Princeton
Stanford/MIT
Columbia
Penn
Brown
Dartmouth
Cornell

By Netflix (Netflix) on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 04:55 am: Edit

Columbia is too huge to be ranked that high. It's as large are many public schools (24000+ students), and it's really easy to get a Columbia degree via the graduate programs. I'd rank them

Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Cornell
Columbia/Penn
Brown/Dartmouth

BTW..the poster above was incorrect. Cornell's yield is 55%. Stanfords is about 65%.

Brown/Dart are typically the lowest ranked Ivies, academically in the NRC and USNews rankings. They have a low acceptance rate because they really tiny. Upenn is often confused with Penn state--so it has pretty low name recognition. Harvard and Yale are great...but princeton doesn't have a medical/business/law/education school, which means most princetions have to apply to harvard, yale, cornell and columbia for grad school after getting bs/ba degrees.

By Wisconsinguy (Wisconsinguy) on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 07:52 am: Edit

Uh, dude, Brown is usually the bottom Ivy on the US News rankings, Dartmouth is usually ahead of Brown, Cornell and Columbia.

By Admissioner (Admissioner) on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 10:57 am: Edit

The US News rankings over its 20 years of rankings consistently have Harvard, Yale and Princeton among the top 5 schools, but the other 5 ivies do alter their relative rankings over time. Only a few years ago (late '90s), Brown and Cornell were entrenched in the Top 10 while Penn and Columbia were the lower-ranked ivies.

One major source of adjustment in the relative rankings comes from financial resources: once a school is near or has completed a major capital campaign, its rankings tends to increase (such as the case with Wash U, or Northwestern of recent note). This is because very positive increases in 'Faculty Resources' and 'Financial Resources' measures in the rankings occurs. When a school is rather far removed from its last capital campaign, it tends to drift downwards in rankings... until its next campaign is underway.

Of course, US News Rankings are only one input to a school's prestige. Admission rates are too, although I must point out that a school's size effects not only the numerator (i.e., how many are accepted) but also the denominator (how many apply) in the acceptance rate equation.

Most people do not watch rankings or admission rates on a year-on-year basis; they simply see a headline in passing that says who was #1 or who was most selective. Prestige, that is, an impression of a school by those who have completed their degrees is generally developed over many years and not because of the relative rankings within a small stretch of time. Therefore, with HYP consistently ahead of the other 5 and those other 5 flip-flopping, I would surmise that across the US and the world, the overall prestige rank varies little among Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth and Penn although people will always have their favourites.

Also note: prestige can be for an entire university, the undergraduate college of the university, the students of the college, the faculy of the college, or some combination of the above. It is an imperfect and qualitative measure... but that is probably why we have so much fun talking about it. As for US News using a prestige-like measure as part of their rankings, well, that tells you something about the accuracy of those rankings.

Sorry for the long post. I think and type rather quickly, especially when I see that such a simple issue has many underlying influencers. But analysing questions like this is what I do for a living.

By Sac (Sac) on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 03:21 pm: Edit

To muddy the waters again, where do you put the University of Chicago? Low on selectivity compared to the Ivys because so many fewer apply. Low on yield because so many use it as backup for the Ivys. Huge in prestige in many fields because of its tremendous faculty and its reputation for intellectual toughness.

By Jlq3d3 (Jlq3d3) on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 08:46 pm: Edit

I would say for
Harvard
Stanford/yale/princton
columbia/penn/cornell/mit
dartmouth/brown

By Gk06 (Gk06) on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 03:28 am: Edit

Yale
Harvard
Princeton
Stanford
other ivies

By Dmitrypetrovna (Dmitrypetrovna) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 11:47 am: Edit

Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Dartmouth
Columbia
U Penn
Cornell
Brown

Earlier netflix said Brwon and Dartmouth are at the bottom because they are really tiny. Dartmouth is small, but Brown is actually one of the larger Ivy League schools, and it still is at the bottom. Dartmouth being small does not hurt it's prestige at all. Princeton is similar, not quite as small as Dartmouth, but similar in comparison to the other Ivy League schools. If you consider the SAT scores of all these schools, Dartmourh ranks highest after HYP. Obviously this doesn't account for too much, but if you consider that the Dartmouth admissions office doesn't take test scores as seriously as the other schools, it is somewhat more impressive. The general public may not know as much about Dartmouth as they do some of the other Ivy League schools, so they may tend to rank it low. But in academia, where the prestige is more fairly judged, Darmouth I'd put Dartmouth at number 4. The medical school, business school, and engeneering schools are all outstanding, and well known by businesses and other academic institutions.

By Lvlike86 (Lvlike86) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 01:38 am: Edit

1. United States Military Academy (West Point)
2. the ivy leagues

By Netflix (Netflix) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 03:48 am: Edit

The reason why Dartmouth and Brown are ranked lower than the other is because, although they have a decent undergrad, the grad rankings are quite horrendous. Dartmouth and Brown students almost never want to stay at these places beyond four years-- they all apply to Cornell, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia etc. for grad schools. Among the Ivies, Harvard, Cornell, Yale and Columbia have the best programs in general.

I gave the rankings above on the basis of the entire uni - undergrad and grad. Brown and Dart are ranked about top 40 to top 80 in most of the programs, which really hurts their overall prestige.

By Haon (Haon) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 04:22 pm: Edit

lvlike86-- bad joke

By Kyle (Kyle) on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 06:08 pm: Edit

"in academia, where the prestige is judged more fairly" ? I'm sorry, but if you're talking about prestige in academia, some of the ivy leagues don't even compare to Stanford, UC Berkeley, or MIT.... Dartmouth included.

By Chess33 (Chess33) on Saturday, October 25, 2003 - 04:51 pm: Edit

Harvard/MIT
Yale/Princeton/Stanford
Columbia
Brown
Dartmouth
UPenn

By Wunderkind__Not (Wunderkind__Not) on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Princeton
Yale
Harvard
Cornell
Penn
Columbia
Dartmouth
Brown

Princeton #1 YEAH--this is ny no means a biased list. Go TIGERS

By Metz (Metz) on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 06:50 pm: Edit

Anyone that is ranking any school equal or above Harvard is fooling themselves. Harvard is UNQUESTIONABLY the most prestegious school in the country. People who never went to college nor know anything about it would still know Harvard to be a top school. That can't be said about any other school. You may think Princeton, Yale, or MIT have just of intelligent kids and just as good of staff, but that doens't change the facts. Harvard is known around the world as the top American university.

By Happystudent (Happystudent) on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 08:35 pm: Edit

netflix,
Would you say that WIlliams and Amherst are not then prestigious because they do not have graduate schools? They can easiliy be considered more prestigious than many top universities. I put Dartmouth in fourth after Harvard Princeton and then Yale.

By Wunderkind__Not (Wunderkind__Not) on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 08:43 pm: Edit

Is is commonized that Harvard is "the best" when in actuality, Princeton and Yale have had higher graduation rates and test scores excluding the irrelevant SAT. I agree that Harvard is a great school but people who have gone to both Harvard and Yale or Princeton realize that the latter two are better overall. YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELF if you believe Harvard is the best just because "Harvard is known around the world as the top American University." OPEN YOUR EYES, there is more than Harvard.

By the way, Harvard College should be ranked below Cornell even. Harvard University is a different story.

By Wunderkind__Not (Wunderkind__Not) on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 08:45 pm: Edit

Just because Harvard is selective, it means not that Harvard is the best.

By Metz (Metz) on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 09:02 pm: Edit

I never ONCE said Harvard was the best school. I don't doubt for a minute that Yale and Princeton have high graduation rates. To quote my last post:
"You may think Princeton, Yale, or MIT have just of intelligent kids and just as good of staff, but that doens't change the facts. Harvard is known around the world as the top American university. "
I am in no way claiming Harvard is a better school. But that's not what the post was about. It was over what is the most PRESTEGIOUS school

>>YOU ARE FOOLING YOURSELF if you believe Harvard is the best just because "Harvard is known around the world as the top American University."
You just made my point. By you saying that, I assume you too acknowledge that Harvard is known all over as the top American university. Like I said, it doesn't make it the best. But it does make it the most PRESTEGIOUS. There is no degree from any other school that will awe people like a Harvard degree. Yes, many people on this board think differenlty. But the general population sees Harvard as the top of the top. And that's why it's the most PRESTEGIOUS, whether or not it's the best.

>>OPEN YOUR EYES, there is more than Harvard.
Ummm, what are you talking about? Did I once say that Harvard was a better university than any other school? I personally am applying ED to Columbia because I know it would be the school I most enjoy (I love NY). Again this doesn't change the fact that Harvard is the most respected university around.

>>By the way, Harvard College should be ranked below Cornell even
LOL, yeah right. There are probably more people in the world that consider Harvard the top school in teh country than have even heard of Cornell or know anyting about.

Again, I will repeat: I'm not saying Harvard is the best school. What I am saying is that it is the most prestegious and well-respected school located in the U.S. (with probably Oxford as #1 in the world).

By Stanfordhopeful (Stanfordhopeful) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 12:24 am: Edit

Oh please. Will you kids stop with the "Harvard is horrible for undergraduates" ••••••••? You know it isn't true, why do you keep promulgating it?

Oh and wunderkind, the topic asked for PRESTIGE, not your biased personal opinion. There is absolutely NO DOUBT in America or the world that HARVARD UNIVERSITY is the most prestigious college on the planet. Fact.

By Metz (Metz) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 12:59 am: Edit

Stanfordhopeful, that's exactly what I've been saying. It's laughable to think that there is any other school that is equal or better than Harvard in prestige.

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 04:36 pm: Edit

I would tend to agree that Harvard is the best in prestige.

I do not, however, think it is the best in terms of academic rigor or quality of education. Not even close, in fact.

By Stanfordhopeful (Stanfordhopeful) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 06:32 pm: Edit

"I would tend to agree that Harvard is the best in prestige.

I do not, however, think it is the best in terms of academic rigor or quality of education. Not even close, in fact."

You make this claim based on WHAT exactly? Are you a student at Harvard? Or at one of Harvard's competitors (HYSMC/AWS)?

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 10:09 pm: Edit

Nope.

Why do you think it's good?

By Gk06 (Gk06) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 03:14 am: Edit

All of you guys are being anal...yes, Haravrd has the best repututation...however, overall there's no substantial difference between HYP other than location.

By Metz (Metz) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 03:22 am: Edit

All I'm saying, is that the post asked to rank school by prestige, and it's laughable to see people here not rank Harvard #1. My guess is that people either misunderstood the question and thought this was supposed to be a ranking of the best schools, or they are bitter because they have no chance to get into Harvard. I personally have no chance whatsoever either, but I still accept that Harvard is the most respected college in the country.

By Anal4yale (Anal4yale) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 03:52 am: Edit

Actually, I beg to differ. Your rankings are a bit dodgy, no?

I would place Havard in the lower rung of the Ivies for the following reasons:

1) Their lofty name recognition is a product of movies like "How High" and "Legally Blonde" -- both of 'em -- and a Tom Green Movie.

2) The uniformity of campus architecture lends to Spartan sterility, in every sense of the word.

3) Everyone knows about their grade inflation: all those A's are as full of BS as their verbal diarrhea.

4) What is a Cantab anyway?


Check out Jeopardy on November 10th, if you have ANY doubts

YALE 4 EVER

By Gk06 (Gk06) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 08:55 am: Edit

lol, YALE 4 EVER.

By Dmitrypetrovna (Dmitrypetrovna) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 09:48 am: Edit

So Harvard had no reputation untill legally blonde and how high? Hmmm, hows about Harvard has always been the most prestigious school in American history. Check out the list of famous graduates and the endowment to see.

By Zorro5280 (Zorro5280) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 11:06 am: Edit

I would defer to the string title, which is "prestige." Prestige has nothing to do with reality, only perception. Thus, in order of "prestige" (i.e. name recognition), we have:

1. Harvard
2. Yale
3. Princeton
4. MIT
5. Stanford

What would come next are schools with large sports programs such as Notre Dame, Duke, Penn State, UCLA, etc... (g). Frankly, the man on the street (Jay Leno's Jay Walking comes to mind) doesn't even know that Brown, Dartmouth, Columbia, and Cornell are IN the Ivy League. And they think that Penn is Penn State.

By Metz (Metz) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 11:28 am: Edit

LMAO, anal4yale is TOTALLY CORRECT! Harvard was nothing more than a small unknown liberal arts school until Legally Blonde came out.

BTW anal4yale, you made my point. Why do you think movies choose Harvard as a setting? Because it is the most prestegious school!

By Thedad (Thedad) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 01:48 pm: Edit

This thread is proof that more people spot stupid answers than they do stupid questions.

By Asndfkas (Asndfkas) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 03:30 pm: Edit

that's funny thedad, but stop picking on us.
we're just having some fun.

By Asndfkas (Asndfkas) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 03:45 pm: Edit

btw, i have to agree with anal4yale's point
but really discussing prestige is such a waste of time. we all agree here that though harvard is best known, we have our own personal tastes about which college is best. prestige means nothing. everyone you encounter will have thier own personal opinions about whether princeton or yale is a better school. harvard or cornell, whatever. i actually thought this thread was pretty amusing, but really it's just so ridiculous...the way you coughed up a specific list of colleges that you know very little about. and dont even try to convince me that you've read books and books on them. everything you hear is based on statistics, which are so decieving and everything else is based on the words of others. you probably couldnt even make a good list if you spent 4 years at every college, because everyones expirience is so personal. i mean i could come up with some random prestige list as well, and mine would have princeton at the top because i live so close to it and thats the mentality here. cant you see how indefinite this is?

By Mahras (Mahras) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 10:08 pm: Edit

In orestige its usually harvard that tops em all. However there is one more school in the US that has a lower selectivity rate than Harvard. Thants of course Brown University's PLME (bs/md) program. The acceptace rate at harvard hovers around the 7-8% mark while the PLME is an all time low of 5-6 %. Instead of prestige I'll try to give a rundown of the schools:

* Harvard- excellent faculty, prestige, great grad school
* Yale- wonderful campus, great athletics, academic excellence
*Columbia- great grad for almost all areas of learning
*Princeton- intellectual heaven
*Brown- no majors SUPER GREAT bs/md program
*Dartmouth- love the campus, great sports, great undergraduate experience
*UPENN- great business school (Wharton)
* Cornell- exceptional engineering program, nice campus (very "outdoory")

In other words all the Ivies and their likes are good in their areas. Average people may not kno about them all but when you to a job interview in tech. and there are two students one from harvard and the other from MIT......I would lean towards the MIT graduate for the job.

By Leejwwc (Leejwwc) on Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 10:25 pm: Edit

1. Harvard
2. Yale
3. Princeton
4. Columbia
5. Penn
6. Dartmouth
7. Corrnell
8. Brown

By Dmitrypetrovna (Dmitrypetrovna) on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 01:41 pm: Edit

Which Ivy League school would you say gets the least credit?

By Jr86 (Jr86) on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 05:09 pm: Edit

wait, i just found out Stanford is not ivy league... wtf?

By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 08:56 pm: Edit

"Ivy League" is a label, the label being that of a college athletic conference. "Ivy League" means intrinsically nothing about a college's academic level. Some people use the "Ivy League" as an idiom meaning "top rank" incorrectly.

By Dadx (Dadx) on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 09:10 pm: Edit

Thedad

I like the old Chris Berman ESPN "Bristol University" vignette.

" there are no stupid questions, ......only stupid people who ask questions. ;)

By Haon (Haon) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 02:51 pm: Edit

Harvard is unquestionably the most prestigious of the Ivies...movies like legally blond are PRODUCTS of this prestige...

However, I would agree that Harvard does not provide the best undergraduate education among the Ivy leagues or, in fact, as compared to many top schools. Harvard's undeniably a great school and it'd be quite an experience to attend Harvard, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's the BEST school. Equating prestige with quality is a mistake.

By Happystudent (Happystudent) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 05:34 pm: Edit

For the Ivy League University that gets the least credit, I'd say Dartmouth. It's an outstanding place, but fewer people know much about Dartmouth since it's smaller and somewhat removed.

By Jennyzsong (Jennyzsong) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 06:40 pm: Edit

I have got to say Brown is the least prestigious, the rest I'd heard of, that one I actually didn't know until I started looking into schools.

By Dmitrypetrovna (Dmitrypetrovna) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 08:40 pm: Edit

i didnt mean least prestigious. I meant the one that deserves the more credit but doesn't get it: Like the opposite of what you guys are saying about Harvard.

By Happystudent (Happystudent) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 08:41 pm: Edit

Thats what I meant by Dartmouth.

By Wisconsinguy (Wisconsinguy) on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 08:50 am: Edit

I'd agree--Dartmouth has one of the best undergraduate experiences in the country, but is probably the least known.

By Teli (Teli) on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 09:24 pm: Edit

Just my opinion:

Tier 1: Harvard, Stanford, Columbia
Tier 2: Princeton, Yale
Tier 3: Cornell, Penn, Dartmouth
Tier 4: Brown

Krish

By Wisconsinguy (Wisconsinguy) on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 07:54 am: Edit

Teli-
1--Stanford is not in the Ivy League
2--If you're going by least-known, your list is totally incorrect.
3--If you're going for quality of undergraduate education, Harvard and Columbia should be near the bottom, Dartmouth should be at the top along with Yale and Princeton, Cornell should be lower, and Penn should be raised a step to second.

By Teli (Teli) on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 10:24 am: Edit

I'm aware that Stanford isn't an Ivy League school, however it is comparable.

I guess you didn't see the statement above my rankings where I said "Just my opinion". FYI the schools are listed in prestige order.

Krish

By Lynch1000s (Lynch1000s) on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 11:14 am: Edit

You're all idiots!

By Lynch1000s (Lynch1000s) on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 11:19 am: Edit

Here is my ranking (in order of prestige)

Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
UPenn
Brown

By Spyrey (Spyrey) on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:44 pm: Edit

This is the only acceptable order:
1. Harvard
2. Yale
3. Princeton
4. Brown
5. Columbia
6. Cornell
7. Dartmouth
8. UPenn*

*UPenn is only last because this is a ranking of PRESTIGE, and everyone thinks that UPenn is a state school when they hear it.

By Ratserutuf (Ratserutuf) on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 08:09 pm: Edit

wow, finally someone who knows what their talkin about. i totally agree with you Spyrey. i cant for the life of me figure out why so many people rank brown the least prestigious. i bet if it wasnt for brown's open curriculum, many people would stop underestimating that amazing school. lets say if it had a strict core curriculum like columbia, it would no doubt be right after hyp in prestige.

By Lynch1000s (Lynch1000s) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Actually I'll change my order. UPenn should be last. Princeton is more prestigous than Yale.

Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Columbia
Cornell
Dartmouth
Brown
UPenn

By Abyss (Abyss) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 03:51 pm: Edit

I'm surprised everyone is putting Brown so low? I really thought the list of prestige would look more like this:
1 Harvard
2 Princeton, Yale
3 Columbia, UPenn, Brown
4 Dartmouth, Cornell

Now this isn't my personal opinion, but it's my conception of prestige, based on how much I see my peers glorify these schools. It just shows you how much location counts. AND how much it doesn't matter because after HYP, all the rest of them blur together. In general, they are of little difference in prestige and all fine schools!

By Anal4yale (Anal4yale) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 04:12 am: Edit

1 Yale
2 Columbia
3 Princeton
4 Dartmouth
5 Cornell
6 UPenn
7 Brown

hmmm...i know i'm forgetting something....

By Jimster0489 (Jimster0489) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 12:35 am: Edit

Solely based on terms of prestige and popularity:

1. Harvard
2. Yale
3. Princeton
4. Columbia
5. Cornell
6. Brown
7. Penn
8. Dartmouth

GO CRIMSON!

By Warriorlax22 (Warriorlax22) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 09:26 am: Edit

1. Harvard
2. Princeton
3. Yale
4. Penn
5. Columbia
6. Dartmouth
7. Brown
8. Cornell

By Teli (Teli) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 03:59 pm: Edit

And if we wanted to compare Stanford's prestige to the Ivys, then where would it go?

Krish

By Kubakloth (Kubakloth) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 05:05 pm: Edit

Prestige, hmmmmmmmm?
President Bush, Yale
Vice President Chaney, Yale (hey, he dropped out, but it still counts, no?)
Howard Dean, Yale

Just my opinion, and that of millions of Americans...

By Metz (Metz) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Bush also went to Harvard business school.
Harvard grads: John Adams, Theo Roosevelt, FDR, JFK, Robert Frost, WEB Dubois, 9 supreme court justices, Kissenger, Al Gore, Bill gates (dropped out)

Every Ivy League school has grads that got far. Mentioning those three doesn't really make much of a point.

>>Just my opinion, and that of millions of Americans...
If you are implying that Yale is prestegious, then yes. If you are implying there are more Americans that consider it the MOST prestigious, that's ridiculous. Harvard is unquestionably #1.

By Polly (Polly) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 01:38 am: Edit

Bush didn't do so well at Yale and Harvard, did he?
I don't know... I just heard that.

By Gk06 (Gk06) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 03:07 am: Edit

FOUR presidential candidates:

John Kerry

Howard Dean

President Bush Sr. & Jr.

Joseph Lieberman

and also: Bill and Hillary Clinton, and vp Cheney

all YALE grads. bwt, if a Yalie becomes a president next year that would be SIX U.S. presidents who are Yalies in comparison to Harvard's 5.

By Metz (Metz) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 04:13 am: Edit

Harvard has had SIX undergraduate alumni that have become presidents: John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Rutherford Hayes, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy.

By Mjl86 (Mjl86) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 03:00 pm: Edit

Why is brown so low on everyone's list? I plan to apply to both brown and cornell and go into the biological sciences. So which is better cornell or brown?

By Abyss (Abyss) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 06:59 pm: Edit

brown's medical program PLME is pretty much the best of the best, but cornell is great in biology so i think cornell.

By Polly (Polly) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 07:24 pm: Edit

Anal4yale... are you being sarcastic? :D

By Dmitrypetrovna (Dmitrypetrovna) on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 10:03 pm: Edit

bump

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 10:57 pm: Edit

How is Stanford not an Ivy? Could someone explain?

By Pistolpete (Pistolpete) on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 11:31 pm: Edit

Citing Thedad:

<<"Ivy League" is a label, the label being that of a college athletic conference. "Ivy League" means intrinsically nothing about a college's academic level.

It's just an association of old east coast schools (hence the "Ivy" part--a reference to the characteristic presence of vines on the old buildings...a trendy look in New England back in the day).

By Vulcano (Vulcano) on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 12:22 pm: Edit

Oh ic, thanks.

By Simon (Simon) on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 02:42 pm: Edit

is it easier to get into an Ivy League school transfering, what else do they go on besides college GPA?

By Teli (Teli) on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 03:39 pm: Edit

No, it is actually harder to get in through transfer admissions. They look at the college GPA the most, but they also look at SAT scores, HS grades, ECs, etc...

Krish

By Collegeboy123 (Collegeboy123) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 01:33 pm: Edit

Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Columbia
Dartmouth
UPenn
Cornell
Brown

By Brownalum (Brownalum) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 01:52 pm: Edit

Recognition (prestige):

1. Harvard

2. Yale

3. Princeton

4. Cornell

5. Columbia

6. Brown/Penn

8. Dartmouth

Recognition/Prestige per student:

1. Yale

2. Harvard

3. Princeton

4. Dartmouth

5. Brown

6. Columbia

7. Penn

8. Cornell


Quality of undergrad academics:

1. Yale

2. Princeton

3. Dartmouth

4. Brown

5. Harvard

6. Cornell

7. Penn

8. Columbia

By Haon (Haon) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 05:27 pm: Edit

Brownalumn...I agree with your ranking completely except I'd rank Dartmouth sixth and brown/penn tied for 7th for prestige.

By Fredmurtz2 (Fredmurtz2) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 09:04 pm: Edit

The answer: All of these schools are perfect for different types of individuals. Which is why everyone has individualized college lists and planning.

By Spyrey (Spyrey) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 10:26 pm: Edit

When people think of a great college, the first one that comes to their mind is "HARVARD." Everything else falls in place after that.

By Pimpdaddy (Pimpdaddy) on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Brownalum's "Recognition/Prestige per student" is a bit flawed
Wouldnt Princeton be a clear number one there? Its prestige is obviously equal to that of Harvard/Yale but its undergraduate class is significantly smaller than the two aforementioned schools. Taking the universities as a whole (inc. grad schools) the size difference would be even more pronounced with Princeton being dwarfed by Harvard/Yale.

By Brownalum (Brownalum) on Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 11:21 pm: Edit

Pimpdaddy, Princeton is nowhere NEAR as prestigious as Harvard or Yale.

Furthermore, Princeton and Yale are both much smaller than Harvard.

By Steffie416 (Steffie416) on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 01:22 pm: Edit

Ok...So I have spent a lot of time on this board just looking at people posting trying to get a better understanding of schools I might not know that much about. I am mainly looking at the schools on the East coast since I am a midwestern girl. The more I read about IVY LEAGUE colleges the mroe it disgusts me of how people on this board put so much exmphasis on RANKING and such. It just seems to me that these future Ivy League students should be looking at a little more than just RANKING and which school is better than the other. Why can't people for once make a decision for themselves based not on this trivial fact. If there is one thing I have learned about going to college, it is definately to follow my heart and pick a school for me rather than choose one based on waht SOCIETY deems proper of grand or a shcool in which my parents want me to attend.

This is just a bit of advice and maybe a hit in the head to some potential studnets but STOP LOOKING AND COMPARING DAMN US NEW REPORT RANKINGS and go with yourgut of where you want to attend college. Trust me you will be much happier for it.

By Calidan (Calidan) on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 08:04 pm: Edit

1. Harvard
2. Yale
3. Princeton
4. Columbia
5. Dartmouth
6. Brown
7. Penn
8. Cornell

in order of prestige. hoo yeah.

By Pimpdaddy (Pimpdaddy) on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 10:23 pm: Edit

wow, brownalum is an idiot
im not questioning the fact that harvard is undoubtedly number one, but princeton is equal if not greater in prestige than yale. Even the US News rankings confirm this, Yale fluctuates between a 4.8 (which it has this year) and a 4.9 while Princeton has been a CONSISTENT 4.9 (along with harvard, mit, stanford). Secondly, Princeton and Harvard have traditionally had the lowest acceptance rate BY FAR with Yale coming in second. Yes, acceptance rate isnt a completely perfect indicator of prestige yet it is a semi-accurate one. Finally, while harvard is the most prestigious institution to the hoi polloi, amongst the educated, harvard and princeton enjoy equal prestige.
Brownalum, ure a retard and that idiotic comment made me lose all respect for that $160,000 brown diploma

By Collegehelp1234 (Collegehelp1234) on Wednesday, November 26, 2003 - 11:27 pm: Edit

hahaha u guys are all on drugs. If you're willing to spend time arguing over this nonsense, then you definitely do not have much of a social life. Consequentially, you will not have anyone to brag to when (if!!!) you get into one of these "PRESTIGIOUS" institutions.
Why feed into their prestige-inflation monopoly? Bring down the machine, man. There, I've done my day's community service. Have fun! Happy Thanksgiving.

By Gk06 (Gk06) on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 02:34 am: Edit

Pimpdaddy, I've spent few years living overseas and I can assure you that Havard and Yale have better reputation, or at least, is better known than Princeton. Most often, Harvard and Yale are the only known colleges to them. Nevertheless, on the whole, albeit I would not dispute that Harvard is the most well-known college in the universe, reputation and academic-wise, HYP all enjoy uniform statures. In my opinion, the only significant difference is location and the slightly different student body, environment, etc. People talking about other significant differences obviously don't know what they are tlaking about.

By Gk06 (Gk06) on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 02:36 am: Edit

pimpdaddy, are you applying to Princeton? haha if you are, i understand you. :p I applied Yale EA, although i was recruited by both H and P to play sports.

By Wunderkind__Not (Wunderkind__Not) on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 11:59 am: Edit

Harvard/Yale/Princeton
Columbia/UPenn/Dartmouth
Cornell/Brown

There you go. Anyone disagree?

By Metz (Metz) on Thursday, November 27, 2003 - 12:08 pm: Edit

I think the only one that almost everyone could agree on would be:
Harvard
Yale/Princeton
The rest

By Nathan311 (Nathan311) on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 07:23 pm: Edit

regardless of worthless rankings, schools merely hold your hand while providing environments for your mental curiosities to flourish. anyone considering any of the highly selective schools should be putting more energy into understanding where their own fires burn the strongest, rather then to who touts the biggest horn.

By Emeraldkity4 (Emeraldkity4) on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 11:57 pm: Edit

this is my former recognition of the Ivys before I even realized that Brown and Cornell were in the same football conference

Harvard- Yale - tied Yale perhaps a smidge higher because Harvards weight comes from its graduate schools

Coumbia- because I have never known anyone who was actually accepted there.

Princeton Dartmouth- what comes to mind is Gatsby and John Belushi

UPenn- Cornell

Brown