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This is a continuation of Part 4. No end in sight!

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By Shauna (Shauna) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 12:38 pm: Edit

Hi all, since we're at the top of another page, I thought I'd repost the "big list" of schools with MT majors, which was very graciously compiled by Dancersmom and originally posted in Part Three. (A few schools have been added.)

American Musical and Dramatic Academy
Arizona State University
Baldwin-Wallace College
Ball State University
Boston Conservatory
Brigham Young University
Butler University
California State University, Fullerton
Carnegie-Mellon University
Catawba College
Catholic University
Coe College
College of Santa Fe
Columbia College, Chicago
Cornell College
Drake University
Elon University
Emerson College
Florida State University
Hampshire College
Illinois Wesleyan University
Ithaca College
James Madison University
Kansas State University, Manhattan
Kent State University
Lees McRae College
Long Island University, C.W. Post campus
Marymount Manhattan (MT minor)
New World School of the Arts
New York University - check out Tisch & Steinhardt
North Carolina School of the Arts
Northwestern University
Northern Kentucky University
Ohio Wesleyan University
Oklahoma City University
Otterbein College
Point Park College
Roosevelt University
Sarah Lawrence College
Shenandoah Conservatory
SUNY, Buffalo
SUNY, Cortland
SUNY, Fredonia
SUNY, New Paltz
Syracuse University
University of Cincinnati - College Conservatory of Music
University of California - Los Angeles
University of Hartford, Hartt School of Music
University of Miami (BM & BFA)
University of Michigan
University of Nebraska
University of Northern Colorado
University of North Texas
University of the Arts
University of Wisconsin, Stevens Point
Viterbo
Wagner
Webster University
West Virginia University
Wright State University

By Wct (Wct) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 02:54 pm: Edit

Mikeashton-
Thanks for the post regarding The National Alliance for Musical Theater, (http://www.namt.net/). I found the site to be very interesting and informative.
"Membership is open to organizations that have been incorporated for a minimum of two years and that are involved in the presentation, production and/or booking of musical theatre performances. In special instances, exceptions are made for individuals who are independent producers.
There are two membership categories: Voting and Affiliate. Voting members include organizations that compensate their actors and have annual operating budgets in excess of $250,000. Affiliate member organizations have budgets less than $250,000 and/or do not compensate their actors. All independent producers are affiliate members. All organizations outside North America are considered affiliate members."

I noticed other college programs listed including the ones you mentioned, University of Central Florida, CMU, Hartt, NYU graduate MT writing program, etc.

By Jess07 (Jess07) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Hi im new here. and i want to ask a question.
i also want to major in musical theatre but i have a budget. Man i wish i had a million bucks!
But, i need to know if there is a college around tennessee and that has a lot of alumni from that college that is in the business now.
i really appreciate it.
thanx.

By Ck1984 (Ck1984) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 09:35 pm: Edit

for eponine...

awsome! welcome to the cool world of musical theatre..it aint easy..I'm in week two of the musical theatre program at The Hartt School...I wouldn't worry about your experience tooo much...its really how much confidence you have in your performance...I have a little bit of professional credits under my belt...but we had a get-to-know-you session and some of the kids here are just like you..starting in high school and really took and interest in it...the fact that you are into gymnastics is a big plus..I think schools will like that...NYU is a great school but just to warn you, NYU is expensive...look into Hartt, CMU, Boston Conservatory, and University of Michigan..I have a friend who went to Michigan and was very successful with Broadway etc.
Good Luck

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 04:57 pm: Edit

I understand the American University also has a music theatre major. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge about their program?

By Mstee (Mstee) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 05:27 pm: Edit

Anyone know anything about the musical theatre program at Cal Sate Fullerton? Just curious--we live in California.I started perusing this website because I have a senior in high school (not esp. interested in musicals), but have found this thread fascinating since I also have two girls who have been bitten by the musical theatre bug. They're still young, and I don't know if the spell will last. One is ninth grade, one is fifth grade. The fifth grader, in particular, seems to love everything about the stage--the singing, the dancing, the acting. I've been telling her she needs to learn piano also if she thinks she might want to pursue this later on in college. True? I suppose it is a little early to be thinking about this. . . or is it?

By Wct (Wct) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 08:16 pm: Edit

Mstee-
The MT program at Cal State Fullerton has an excellent reputation. The theater program has National accreditations and associations in theater from the Western Association of Schools and Colleges. They offer a BFA in MT. The Performing Arts Major's College Guide lists Cal State Fullerton among its “Most Highly Recommended Undergraduate Programs” for drama and musical theater, and among “Noteworthy Programs” for dance. You can check the web site for more info.
http://www.fullerton.edu/arts/theatredance/mainframeset3.html

I know of students who are very happy with the program. I have also worked with a couple of very talented triple threats who were cut from the program after their first year. I do not know why they were cut. I would ask administration and/or faculty about this practice of not inviting back students. It is best to be aware of all aspects of a program before applying.

Cal State Fullerton is a huge college but the MT program isn't too big as far as I know. The program is by audition.

I teach an intro to MT voice class at a local performing arts high school and students who play piano, (or another instrument) usually have far better music theory skills than their peers. This is true of voice students who have had theory. This is definately a plus. In the real world you really need to know how to read music and understand a time signature, (at a minimum). It is never too early to think about such things.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 01:32 am: Edit

Just to answer the piano playing point for a kid interested in musical theater.....
While it is not required or anything, I can tell you it is a real plus. I have a daughter who is almost 15 also very into musical theater and she plans to pursue it as a college major and beyond. She started piano at age 7 and still takes lessons. She never took piano with theater in mind. However, I cannot begin to tell you that because of her skill on piano, it has helped in the musical theater realm as well.

For one thing, as someone else mentioned, being able to play instruments means an understanding of music theory, very helpful in musical theater as well. She actually can play three instruments but that is besides the point. She has studied music theory in the lessons, and takes jazz theory in school as well. So, it is not just about reading music but just a very thorough understanding of music. So, how has it come in handy in musical theater?

Off the top of my head, I can think of a few ways. One is when she gets new music to sing, without even hearing it first, she can look it over and get the tune. She can accompany herself on piano or again, try out some voice music at home with the piano.

Another thing is she can hear a Cd and if we do not own the sheet music, she can by ear sit down at the piano and figure out the music if she needs it.

At musical theater rehearsals for shows she is in, she often will fill in for the musical director and do warmups or accompany people singing. She just told me that at rehearsals for a show she was in this summer, she was able to take the cast one day the musical theater director was out, and play piano and teach all the harmonies.

Last year, at the auditions for the high school musical, the pianist did not show up. She offered to sit in on all the auditions and be the accompaniest. Cause she can sight read music so well, she stepped right in and played for each student's audition.

While we live in Vermont, she occasionally auditions in NYC. On her first NY audition ever, via an agent, she was auditioning for a composer who wrote a musical score. Instead of singing a song she brought, he required that he first taught the person auditioning a segment of his score and then on the spot, the child had to sing that segment of the score. I think the fact that my child played piano, she was able to pick up the music readily and sight read it and in fact, she was the person cast in the role (over known kids with Broadway credits) and the composer even commented that she learned the music so readily in the audition. I am sure the piano background helped.

Just two days ago, she had an audition in NYC that required singing and dancing which she did. Apparently the producer noticed that she plays piano (on her resume....yes, sometimes they really do read those resumes!) and asked her if she could play and sing at the same time...nothing she ever expected in this audition and in fact, no other people auditioning did piano. She said yes, she could. She had brought NO music with her for that (just the song she sang that they had a pianist accompany her on). So she just off the top of her head remembered a song she once performed while accompanying herself on piano (normally she does not sing and play at same time and most of her piano music is classical besides). So, while she had no music with her, she sat down and remembered this contemporary Broadway song by heart on piano luckily by chance and sang and played it for them. So, you never know when piano can come in handy.....it just did for her this week.

Anyway, while my child does not play intstruments cause of doing theater, and just happens to also be involved heavily in music, I think afterall, it has ended up coming in handy and helping in her musical theater endeavors. I think it even helps with singing. So, I would support if you child is interested, in learning piano.

This job my daughter did performing in an opera with various symphonies across the country, it was her in the child role and this wonderful soprano in the adult role who had several Broadway credits. Well, in rehearsals, it came out when they were working on the score, that this soprano did not read music and here she is quite accomplished and my little kid who was about 11 or 12 at the time, did. That was surprising to me !!

Go for it....
Susan

By Showstopmom (Showstopmom) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 10:00 am: Edit

I went away to college a week after graduating from high school and began the summer semester. I am just about finished with the first semester and I am very disappointed about the school I chose. It is nothing like I thought it would be. I insisted on going to NY because I thought that's where I belong and now I find out that my school has a bad reputation in the business and it really does suck. I want to quit as soon as I finish this semester and go back home and reapply to other schools. It is probably too late to get into anything now. I'm so upset I don't know what to do. Any advice from anyone out there?

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 10:59 am: Edit

Apply this fall for next year as a transfer student or just as a freshman. Finish this semester out. If you want, finish out the whole year. If you feel you gave it your best shot,I guess leave after this semester but if you stay the full year then maybe you would be a transfer student for next fall. If you quit after this semester, use the rest of this year as a gap year that you put to good purpose and can show colleges that. Can you audition to get work in theater? Take lessons in voice, dance, acting? Show that you kept going with this area all year. Meanwhile if you are going to apply fresh for next year as a freshman, start going on it now. Sharpen your audition material, get those applications and so on. Visit the schools and talk to kids who attend. Do not pick the school just to be in NYC. There is time to make it in NYC (after you graduate) but there are a ton of great programs out there in theater that are not necessarily in NYC.

I have a feeling of where you likely are attending now and if it is where I think, then you are not in a regular college setting. So, really think of what kind of setting you want....a theater dept. in a college, a conservatory, or a two year training program. All is not lost. Start fresh on new apps and use this year wisely to keep involved in theater.

Susan

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 11:54 am: Edit

Hi, this message is to Showstopmom -

I feel the pain in your message. Although you are miserable right now - later you will look back and be grateful you were strong enough to get through this period in your life. In the meantime, you should at least definately finish out this semester, that would be productive and beneficial for your resume. Talk to someone who you respect in MT and get their advice... See about applying as a transfer or freshman...

You must be talented, you've got that on your side! Its just a temporary setback. If you're dedicated about MT, you will somehow see your way through to another program. Just don't be so hard on yourself. These things happen. I think thats what this discussion board is for: to give everyone information that is so unavailable elsewhere...

Everyone on this discussion board has been so open about their experiances. Its so beneficial to know the pros and cons of places - because no place is perfect. With information from others like yourself, people are better prepared to make choices for themselves or help guide our children to the best choice for them...

My daughter goes to a private college-prep high school. There is no one there who remotely understands what she is going through...applications with auditions,resumes, difficult choices based on little information, etc... The guidance counselor dooesn't have any information much less the applications for most of the schools my daughter is appling for in MT. My daughter too is very interested in a school in NYC. We visited the school and we left feeling "empty". And yet, she is still considering it - if accepted.

Would you mind telling me the name of your school? In your message, you sounded a little uncomfortable with naming it, but, it would be helpful for me to hear about another viewpoint to certain schools. Because if its nothing like you thought it would be, then maybe its nothing like my daughter thinks it would be either... My daughter and I need something to go on besides visits, applications, brochures and wishful thinking.

Thanks for listening. Hope to hear from you soon!

-MTheatremom

By Showstopmom (Showstopmom) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 12:12 pm: Edit

Thank you for responding Susan. The reason I wanted to go to NY is because I already have an agent here and even though I am not supposed to audition, I still do. I am currently doing a pre Broadway workshop and I will continue to study voice. I just feel like I'm wasting so much time here with students who really aren't as focased on making it in this business, they are too busy partying and hanging out until the wee hours of the morning. I would love to see what the Boston Conservatory is like, it sounds like what I was looking for in the first place. I just told them I am not coming back after I finish this semester. I am going to go home and start over, I just hope I get in somewhere.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 02:16 pm: Edit

Showstop...ok, this is a disappointment for you but all is not lost. You will finish out the semester, continue doing stuff in the field and try again. I cannot tell if you are in one those two year theater programs or if in a college setting. I was assuming the former. Boston Conservatory is well regarded as you know. I understand the agent thing. But use the college years for the training and theater work through college. Use summers for summer stock. You might have to give up NY auditions. Or remember, you can audition for significant things from out of state. We live in VT and my daughter has an agent in NYC as well. Surely we do not run in for every little thing. She does not get called in very often but if something is right for her and of significance to be worth the while, she does get called in. You could still do that. Better yet, forego that during the school year and do shows at college and like I said, do professional work in summers. You could also do NYC auditions in summer. You obviously are talented if you are in a preBroadway workshop!! Do not get too down on yourself. You tried a program and it wasn't for you. You might still receive credits for this semester and use them when transferring. You can use the rest of this year to pursue musical theater fully (hope there are lots of auditions) and to continue training in voice/acting/dance. All is not lost. Get going on college apps again. Are there other schools you applied to last fall that accepted you but you turned them down? Maybe approach them again. I am not sure what your options were at that time.

Wishing you much luck. Keep reaching for your dreams.
Susan

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 06:03 pm: Edit

Showstopmom . . .

Take the above advice to heart, this is certainly not the end of the world but just one of the bumps along the way. One choice that didn't work out is just an opportunity to try something else, so pick yourself up and move on.

By Gadad (Gadad) on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 08:32 pm: Edit

I'd like to offer the perception I have of a Musical Theatre degree from reading this discussion for the past few months - please let me know if you think I'm on target or if I'm just being overly paternal.

Until recently, I've always thought that my 15-year-old daughter would either attend a Top 25 college and major in Music, or get a merit scholarship to pursue Music at a second tier school - pretty good options, I thought. This year, her life has become musical theatre and she has learned that one can pursue a major in it. Her talent is obvious and I am delighted at the passion and the commitment she's displaying.

But having read hundreds of these posts, it seems to me that seeking a BFA in MT means traveling all over the country to auditions at which there's a 3% acceptance rate, trying to gain admission to a (usually) no-name college or university where one spends $100,000 to pursue a curriculum that provides no room for a broad-based education, leaving the degree holder qualified to enter but a single field - one in which very few people can manage to earn a living.

I love MT and I'm as proud as I can be of my daughter, but that B.A. in Music or Theatre from a college full of motivated and intelligent students just looks like a much more prudent way to prepare for a life of personal and occupational flexibility. Any thoughts?

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:02 am: Edit

Gadad,

Yes, that's about right. That's why they say if there is anything else in this world that you can see yourself doing then you should do that. But if it is your passion then it's what you have to do.

A BFA isn't right for everyone and I'm sure if most of us conservative parents could pick, we would not choose this hard path for our children.

By John246 (John246) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 01:36 am: Edit

Yes..don't worry! Be glad you realized that the program was not for you (I take it this program begins with an "A" and ends with an "A"?).

Many students transfer from another college so you're not alone.

Make a list of places you'd like to check out. Does it have to be near NY? I think that's a big mistake cause, as we've seen, some students might just want to do the work without putting in the time to develop their craft.

I'd check out some away from NY places where you concentrate on learning your craft. University of Michigan, Cinci Conservatory (although not too sure bout that place), UCLA, Florida State, Oklahoma City University, and others have got some good recognition.

And about playing piano....if your kid is planning on a MT major and he doesn't play...get them into it NOW. Trust me..it will save semesters of hard work. Same thing with music theory. Help your kids realize that a MT major in the big schools that are mentioned above is not all about singing showtunes and non stop fun. It's long, long hard work. Only the kids who do their prep (piano, theory, singing lessons, dance lessons) are going to be the ones, not only admitted into the big schools, but also the kids who'll get the scholarships.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 10:15 am: Edit

Gadad,
I hope many people will read and seriously consider your post.

I obviously don't know beans about musical theater, theater, or acting. But I do know that when I see anyone perform, I find myself NOT noticing the mechanics and the craft of what they are doing NEARLY as much as the intelligence, scope, and humanity that they seem to bring to the moment. Having a solidly broad education helps in this field as much as in any other.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 10:51 am: Edit

Gadad..you make some great points. While I have not researched this that much yet as my daughter who is pursuing musical theater is in tenth grade and I already have a senior in the house who we ARE dealing with college admissions with.....but I think there is a happy medium to the dilemma you raised. First there are the conservatories such as Boston Conservatory or CCM and yes, if your kid goes there, they just focus on this field, not a broad education. Then there is a regular college that my have a theater or music department and this is one good option. But if a kid really wants to pursue musical theater, some of those departments are not as well developed as schools that have a specialty in this area. A happy medium might be to go to a well regarded musical theater department that is within a university setting. For example, if your daughter were to attend NYUs Tisch school, she would be in a conservatory type training program a few days per week but taking liberal arts courses within NYU the other days. My daughter knows about a dozen kids attending there. They describe it that way. Certain days are for regular academics and other days are for the conservatory training. In fact, I know a very talented girl in their Cap21 program for musical theater who is double majoring in chemistry. I am not pushing NYU by any means but I think this sort of setting, like also Northwestern or UMich or Carnegie Mellon, might get your daughter both a musical theater training of high calibur while also a broad education in liberal arts courses. Not sure if I am explaining that right.


As you say, it is very very difficult to make it in this field. For me, I cannot squash my child's deep passion to go for this. But she will be going to college and I feel she will always have that degree and if for some reason, she ends up not staying in theater (which right now I find hard to imagine with her deep seeded drive), she can always do something else as she will have that education and she truly is an academic anyway, and that will never go away. But it is definitely not easy to contemplate all this. A college degree is not necessarily a ticket to a job these days. Just cause the kid specializes in theater in college, they still could go onto other things with a college degree. Like I said, some kids double major as well. But you are right to be concerned a bit with this really difficult field to go into. Also, the odds for admission are daunting at top programs. And here people think Ivy league odds are daunting (I have a child currently applying to school of that calibur) but admission to top theater programs have an admit rate that is even tougher.

Your daughter could apply to some of the aforementioned schools, skip the ones that are just conservatories alone, and also apply to some colleges that simply have a theater major.

My daughter's roommate at theater camp has an older sister who was at Tufts and majoring in theater. But she has since transeferred to NYU Tisch. While she liked Tufts, I guess her heart is in theater and that is a regular theater department in a college setting and just not on the level of a theater program such as Tisch. So, that is an example I suppose of the difference a bit. I saw a musical at Tufts last year as my older daughter is applying, and it was quite good. I doubt it was on the level it might be at a school like Tisch where kids audition to get into the program. I do not know your daughter's background but one factor in consideration is the level of theater training and what she is used to and so on.

It is pretty tough. I agree. I find it would be futile to stop a kid this driven and obssessed with a field that she not only has an interest in pursuing in college/career, but has been immersed in her entire life so knows she loves it, and is not assuming she wants to try out some major.

Break a leg to your daughter!!
Susan

By Gadad (Gadad) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 11:52 am: Edit

Susan, thanks for the excellent response - you mentioned "theatre camp;" since we're on the subject, what do you all know about some of the pre-college summer MT programs for high schoolers offered by universities? Carnegie Mellon has an intensive six-week program that costs $5000 - great, I'm sure, but too pricey for me. I've seen that University of the Arts offers a four-week program for $2000 + $750 housing. I would think that as not only skills training, but both a reality check and a chance to sample the degree of real work involved in MT, that could be $2000 well-invested. Does anyone have recommendations?

By Mikeashton (Mikeashton) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Sorry...I totally disagree with the thought process that if you can choose or persue any other career than music, then do so. This makes it sound that a career in the peforming arts is lesser than other choices. This is wrong.

Go to a music school. See the kids taking tap at 9AM, theory at 10AM, jazz at 1PM, history at 2P, economics at 3P, acting at 4P and then either rehersals or hours spent learning songs, scenes and dance routines. If your child is not spending a good 6 to 8 hours a day perfecting and working on their intended craft, then this is not their true desire.

But to say do anything else is wrong. Society continues to place the arts as such a lightweight career option. It's all just singing' and playin' around, right? WRONG. It is a serious business. After all, it is called show "business". Im have workied in the business world for many years and see the unhappy people who wanted to persue other options when they were younger, but chose the "safe" path. Their life is full of "would have, could have, and should have" 's.

Don't place your childs dreams and ambitions on the back burner just so they can have a BA in Finance. A piece of paper is one thing. A person with desire and happiness is another.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Gadad, while I am aware of these pre-college programs, I am not well versed on them but there are people on this forum who are. My daughter has gone the past six years (and counting) to a summer theater program for six weeks in NY called Stagedoor Manor. She absolutely loves it and it is like her heaven on earth. If you ever want to ask me specifics about it, I would be happy to share. Some kids from there have done a summer before 12th grade at precollege theater programs such as at Carnegie Mellon, Northwestern, NYU Tisch. They are supposedly great training. My daughter's program is open to ages 8-18 whereas the college programs are usually for kids entering gr. 11 or 12 only. Another difference is that at Stagedoor, it is a combination of classes/training and full scale productions. Usually the college program is training, and maybe a showcase, but not full fledged musical theater productions. Pre College programs also often involve audition prep for college admissions. One type of program is not better than the other, just different. None of these things are cheap. Whether your daughter chooses to go to a summer program or not, the main thing is that she has training in voice, acting, and dance, plus actual theater credits/experience. All that can be gotten in these intensive summer programs, but just like during the school year, you can piece together lessons and theater productions in your home area. The summer program, however, in my daughter's case is more than simply the fabulous training and production work, but the bonds she has made with other kids there who are just as passionate about theater as she is. It is hard to describe but the experience of being there is very meaningful in her life. She counts the days all year and is in daily contact w/ kids from all over the country who she spends her summers with doing theater. Again, these programs are not a must. Training and theater productions are what you want to keep doing, no matter the avenue you choose to pursue them. And you would not just want to train in summers, of course.

Welcome to the musical theater bug....it's a ride.
Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:37 pm: Edit

Gadad...I forgot to address the point you made about "a reality check" if your daughter were to attend a pre college theater training program. While that is not why my daughter attends the theater training program she goes to in summer, in a way, it has given us a clue as to her talents so to speak. It is one thing that she always gets cast in our region (little 'ole Vermont) and has sort of stood out or excelled. And one thing if people around here feel she has what it takes. But our eyes were really opened when she began this summer program in NY where many of the kids who attend are like her, tops in their home area. The grouping was very different than at home. We were very shocked when she got a good role in her musical her first summer and got into their select cabaret troupe (by audition) that they take off campus to perform at resort nightclubs. The kids in that troupe are 12-18 and she got in at nine, and so that did open our eyes from then on in. Since then ,she has had many leads there in summer. I am always astounded cause I see the level of talent there. So many of the kids who have played leads there have gone onto the best musical theater programs in the country (though that is not why we send her but I have noticed this as happening each year). When strangers there will comment on her as someone they think is going to make it on Broadway, and the parents there all seem pretty tuned into the nature of the competition in this field, I still sometimes cannot believe that anyone else would think she stood out. As a parent, of course, we might think she has talent but when you go to a place like this, you have all these other people putting it into some perspective. Same with when she has auditioned in NYC at the highest levels of auditioning for a kid. That has also opened our eyes. So, you are right, in a way, if your child has either an intensive summer experience with other very highly talented theater kids (or has done the audition scene in NYC as another example), you do gain perspective as to whether your child has a certain level of talent or not. Judging by how she fares at home is not always the best indicator. So, in a way, when my child has been a finalist for Broadway or a national tour or gotten leads in a summer program filled with many talented kids, it has helped us as parents to really understand that maybe she really does have talent. Talent aside, a big part is the drive/passion. Theater CONSUMES her. That part I did not need a program to find out! I am sure in that regard, you can tell how badly your child wants it. If you wish to have her experience theater beyond your home area where sorta many of the highly talented kids from all over are gathered, it might have an added benefit of a reality check as you say. Personally, I would not choose to have my kid attend for that reason alone but it does tend to be an offshoot of the experience, among other things.
Susan

By Mstee (Mstee) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 12:45 pm: Edit

Thank you for your responses. The program at Cal State Fullerton looks pretty darn good. Worth checking into should we ever get to that level. And I will keep encouraging the piano playing. The girls, I'm pretty sure, will want to keep doing music and theatre for some time to come. Don't know if we'll get to the point where they will want to immerse themselves totally in musical theatre (the fifth grader might), but it is helpful to know what it is all about and to be prepared, just in case . . . Guess we should try some ballet soon, too? (the fifth grader currrently does tap and jazz dance).

Gadad's thoughts on the subject seem to mirror my own. Majoring in musical theatre looks difficult and risky. And yet for those who love the stage, what a thrill -- why not let them immerse themselves in it in college, should they have that opportunity? While I want my kids to get a decent liberal arts education in college, I also want my kids to use college to pursue their passion (whatever it may turn out to be) and not be afraid. It may be the only time in their lives when they can do that.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Mstee...as far as ballet....if your daughter really wants to go into musical theater, ballet would be good to do. My daughter does a lot of dance and while she started very young in jazz and tap, she went on to include ballet in her training, but not with the thought of ever being a ballet dancer for a career. She feels that ballet technique forms the basis for so many of the other styles of dance she does. It really is a good background for all dance. And often dance auditions even for Broadway shows, often calls for a ballet background. I think her ballet training has been helpful with the rest of dance...she takes ballet/pointe, jazz, lyrical/modern, jazz funk, tap, and hip hop. If you can squeeze in some ballet, it would be good but mostly only if she enjoys it. My daughter really does love ballet but has no aspirations to be a ballerina. You might find as the fifth grader gets older, she gets more and more immersed in the field...more dance classes, voice, shows, it just builds and builds. Watch out...LOL !
Susan

By Lamw (Lamw) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 02:40 pm: Edit

Gadad-One thing that we discovered while researching options for my son was that all of these programs are slightly different in what they require for
a BFA in MT. Carnegie Mellon was mentioned above as a program where you can take other things along with your MT subjects. We found this not to be the case. MT at CMU is considered a double major and it is strictly conservatory.It is an excellent program,but you take nothing outside the theater department. Boston Conservatory and CCM same thing.

Other colleges and universities, some very well known , have non-audition BA theater majors or minors with about half of your credits in theater and the rest in other areas.Admission here is based on academics. These are not the most competitive placements talent-wise.

My son is currently at Syracuse U. This is an audition BFA MT program but he is required to take 17 credits outside his major. Plus 2 writing classes that are required for everyone enrolled in the University. He can take anything he wants and is leaning toward history and psychology because these subjects interest him. In other words he is not required to take a math or science (which he has of course studied in HS)and does not enjoy or have an interest in. There are students in his BFA program who are in the Unversities' honors progam in their classes outside the major .He will also go to London in his junior year to study Shakespeare.

Before you invest time or money in school you should get a copy of the curriculum required for the degree you want there(available on-line)and see it it fits. Not all BFA programs are strictly conservatory. I think Emerson has even more room in their curriculum for outside courses.And Emerson is also an audition program.

BFA students also study the classics in great depth, touch on psychology,history, sociology and many other subects in the course of their training. I think that their education winds up being much more rounded than the engineering students. These students are also most often focused and driven, most of them having navigated in an adult workplace long before their peers. These are the kids that are down at the theater working when many other students are playing. Because for them, their work is their play(how lucky is that).

After our research my concerns about his choice of an MT BFA was not that he would be undereducated but that after graduating with any
kind of a theater degree, but especially one in a performing discipline ,that he would be underemployed (read unemployed)afterwards. But, you know, kids graduating with degrees in CS are also unemployed or unhappy with what they are able to get. My neighbor just graduated with a degree in public relations and advertising from a very well known U and he's delivering pizzas.

There's no greater gift in life than to be able to do what you love. I wasn't going to tell my son at the age of 18 that it wasn't possible for him to do that. His degree will eventually get him a job he loves somewhere in the theater world.

Also I can just weigh in briefly about the CMU summer program. My son attended this last summer and it was in all ways excellent. If your student decides to go the BFA route this would be enormously beneficial. A major portion of the
program is preparing monologues and songs for college auditions. My son found this helpful even though he had already done a lot of work in this area. And don't forget, there is merit money available at some colleges based on talent shown at the audition, so even though the summer program at CMU is expensive it could boost your chances of merit money for four years some place. A gamble I know.

Morgantruce- there are many actors who were trained in BFA programs(or for that matter, there are many people who never attended college) who have intelligence, scope and humanity. I'm sure that you didn't mean to suggest that only people with a certain type of higher education possess these.
You're not supposed to see the mechanics and craft of what they're doing.Thats why they train so incredibly hard-to make it look easy and natural when its not.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 05:27 pm: Edit

Lamw....excellent post and insights, thanks! Sorry to have mentioned CMU in that list of schools where you major in musical theater with a conservatory approach but also take liberal arts courses. As I said, I have yet to research this but I basically meant schools like NYU or Emerson or Northwestern, or Syracuse, or Ithaca......you get a conservatory type of training but in a university setting with other coursework.

So much of what you wrote is exactly how I feel. I could never stop my child's drive and passion. Like you said, there are graduates of college these days who cannont get work in other fields as well. But she will get a college education. Like you said, this field is HARD work and these kids who are immersed in it from a young age work countless hours often in adult settings and their work IS their play. People often ask how my theater daughter does all this day and night but she does not care so much about free time as she loves doing all things theaterwise.

By the way, I have found that some of the best kids in musical theater are also stellar students, not sure why but that is what I find both in our school and also from her summer theater buddies from all over the US who excel at school.


When I get to this point with that kid, I hope you are still here to ask about the programs!
Susan

By Mstee (Mstee) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 06:00 pm: Edit

Lamw--funny you should mention engineering students. We are in that exact position with my son, a senior who thinks he wants to do engineering, but also wants to do music and writing. Some of the schools' engineering requirements leave little or no room for anything else. So he is looking for a way to fit the arts into an engineering degree. Down the road, our girls may be looking at how to fit some science into their fine arts degrees.

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 08:58 pm: Edit

This discussion about degrees is interesting. An elderly friend who is a nationally esteemed Doc calls medical school a trade school. He believes you go to college to learn how to learn - otherwise it is, as he calls it just a “glorified trade school”. My daughter who is a college junior started out in engineering - but found the curriculum too narrow and boring. Essentially the first semester they gave her the schedule for the next four years. She is now majoring in physics (and positively loves her creative writing class!) My best friend has a PhD. in economics, has taught at a couple of universities and is now writing a book on religion. My degree has nothing to do with the business I own. My son recently was put into a situation that I was certain he would be uncomfortable with and might embarrass him and others. When he told me how he handled it – I exclaimed how proud I was of him. I said how did you do that? “Mom,” he said a bit exasperated, “I’m an actor remember!”

By Jennilynne (Jennilynne) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:04 pm: Edit

{Hello! My name's Jenni and I'm currently a sophmore vocal performance major. What I would like to do is major in musical theatre, but it's not offered at my current school. I was wondering if anyone knew of any good schools that offer musical theatre in the midwest region? Your help is greatly appreciated!!}

Jenni

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 09:56 pm: Edit

You are right that the analogy to engineering is a bit similar. My senior daughter was looking into engineering but one thing she did not like is that there were so many required courses that it left too little room to study other things she likes. She ended up choosing architecture. However, there are two avenues with architecture. One is a five year professional program leading to a BArch degree, then licensure after apprenticing. But she felt that that degree program was like engineering, defining about 3/4s of what she would be taking. The other avenue is to go to school for what is considered Pre-Architecture, a college major like most other college concentrations, followed by two years of graduate school to get a MArch, that leads to licensure. That is what she has chosen to apply for. So, it is sorta the same as what we are discussing here. But different things work for different kids, but these are surely issues an applicant should look at when deciding what sort of college program they want. My younger one would like that a musical theater program was a large part of her college program, but I think doing that in a college setting vs. a pure conservatory that has no other departments (or diversity of students either) might be best but we are not up to that yet as she is still in tenth grade but these discussions are helpful to consider.
Susan

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 11:20 am: Edit

Gadad, until I found this site, I had very little knowledge of MT programs and thought along the same lines that you did (do) Sometimes I still do. My next in line to go to college is closer to the time to make decisions than your child so we are now looking closely at his options. Last year as a sophomore, he decided that he wanted to go the MT route. He spent this summer doing weekend classical theatre and 3 nights a week in a grueling dance (his weak point) program. From reading this site, I have been able to get a list of MT schools and he will spend this year collecting songs, routines, monologues for auditions.
I know two girls who are friends with my older ones who also were big in MT in high school . One is now at Yale; the other at Tisch. When they picked their colleges, they wisely packed their choices with safeties, options, as well as MT programs. They each ended up with a variety of choices. There are no safeties in MT programs, is the constant refrain, but you can create a safety by applying to schools with strong theatre and music programs that have great productions and staff but have higher acceptance rates. You don't have to go MT to get musical theatre. But if that is the primary interest of the child, auditions in those programs should be added to the list.
Girl A applied to Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Northwestern, U of Michigan, I don't think they have audition based MT programs. She had high stats, visited all 5 schools and more in this category and felt that these were the ones she like best. She applied to the CMU and Steinhertz musical theatre programs, prefering Steinhertz at NYU to Tisch, because Steinhertz is integrated into the college, you know what you are getting there since you are using NYU facilities and professors,you are not being subcontracted out as you are with the studio system Tisch uses. She also felt that the music was stronger at Steinhertz because the music department was there. She did not like the unpredictable nature of the studio assignments of Tisch and the fact that you spend half your time in a non NYU studio that anyone can just join. She figured she would have that option at anytime without paying exhorbitant college tuition rates for it. She also applied to her state school that had a musical theatre department but as a safety made sure she could be accepted to the school even if she didn't make the MT cut there. Which is something you can do with a lot of schools. Even very competitive CCM has MT options for those who do not make the MT program but end up going to the school as a drama or music major. That is really the safety valve for MT majors--going theatre/drama/music rather than MT at a school. She also applied to the CCM MT program, the Hart School and Boston Conservatory and Emerson. So that made 11 schools but not all of them had auditions. She was accepted to Northwestern, Cornell, NYU, Emerson, Penn State,(but not to MT), CCM (but not MT),and Hart. She decided after an agonizing month to go to Northwestern. Then she was one of a handful who cleared Yale's waiting list and ended up going there.
Girl B applied to Northwestern, CMU, Tisch, University of the Arts, Point Park and CCM. She also applied to her state university which had a lot of musical theatre but not an official program and to Hofstra as her safeties. She was accepted everywhere except CMU and ended up with some great scholarship offers from SUNY and Point Park. She is now at the Lee Strasburg Studio as part of the Tisch program and loves it there. She felt that Steinherz was really too much part of the university and felt more like a regular theatre program that you could get at any college with a drama department whereas the studio concept of Tisch was a bigger step towards the "real" world of MT that she intends to enter when she graduates. That was also her objection to Northwestern's program. Though her first choice studio was CAP21, she is doing MT at Strasburg, and thoroughly enjoys it. She feels that the "method" training she is getting has been beneficial to her and she has made many contacts in NY that she feels she would not have made in one year in Steinhertz. Though the program is very expensive (NYU has to be one of the top 25 in price), she did get a paid internship as well as performance opportunities this summer which she says is harder to get through the Steinhertz Program. That shaved about $2000 off the very expensive NYU tuition for the second year. I saw her at the end of the year revue which I thought was well done, and her mother who watched the NYU shows--I think both Steinhertz and Tisch have in school end of the year showcases, felt that the Tisch kids were definitely better in the showcases with Stella Adler and CAP21 putting on the best performances. Now that is just one person's opinion. And just one year's performance. And one performance does not the program make.
I thought I would share this info with all of you since you have been so generous with your experiences. It's interesting to me how two girls had two different takes on the two NYU programs.
I have nothing personal to add since my son is just starting his jr year in highschool and is now focusing more on classical theatre after years of the MT bug. And this is after he shored up his adequate dance skills to proficient. He has great tenor voice, and excellent stage presence. He is well trained in music theory-- 5 in AP Music, plus years of soflege, theory, composition. He's had several years of piano and 10 years of violin. He has enjoyed many roles in many MT productions, professional, school, and programs (where you pay for them to be in a production and learn the works). He has been in fewer plays, only one professional, but really enjoyed what he did this summer in the classics. Currently, he is auditioning for school productions and professional theatre, taking private voice, is in 2 choral groups including male a cappella, and I have him working with someone to get his repertoire together this year for auditions next year. He worked all summer and will use that money to pay for this "coach" and will also use a portion for a precollege program if he does not get into professional production or internship this summer. We cannot pay for all of the private instruction and production programs that he would like to join so he has had to augment his training with free and paid work. He is quite an accomplished stage hand and tech person now, and just to let all of you know, many childrens theatre groups offer free training for stage crew in exchange for working the shows that they put on. Once someone is pretty good at lights, sound, sets, alot of schools and theatre companies will then pay for the expertise. That is what he has been doing for the past 2 years. I can only pay about $1000 a year for this training and he has to use this money wisely. I don't know what will happen for college. My older ones all got financial aid and merit scholarships for college. Our state school is very reasonably priced and has good theatre options and all of my kids have gotten offers of a free ride there. We will play out all of our options when the time comes and see what pans out.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 11:27 am: Edit

Susan, the architechture bit interests me. Is your daughter in a prearchitechture program? Where are such programs? I know someone who is of the same mindset as your daughter--does not want to go into a 5 year program but wants the door open for architechture should she want to continue it after college. I know this is the MT thread but I would like to know.

By Gadad (Gadad) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 12:16 pm: Edit

Wow Jamimom - what a great pool of information! Many thanks. As for architecture, you may want to get a recent copy of the Fiske Guide to Colleges - in the front they list the strongest major universities and smaller colleges nationwide in each of a number of pre-professional areas including architecture (as well as music and drama). I don't have it with me right now, but I'll try to look it up later).

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, September 19, 2003 - 01:46 pm: Edit

Jamimom, first thanks for your very informative post that included specific kids' situations. I am not as thoroughly versed on the college programs in musical theater only cause my child who will be going into that field is currently in tenth grade. However, I am aware of the programs peripherally only cause she has so many friends from her summer theater program over the years who are older than herself who now are in college for musical theater. As I mentioned before, she has numerous friends at Tisch in all the different studios. She only knows one who is enrolled in Steinhardt as a freshman but now is deferring cause she got cast in the national tour of Mamma Mia as the understudy to the lead. Other summer friends are now at CCM, North Carolina, UMich, Emerson, etc. Some kids did the route you described of theater in a regular university setting that is not musical theater itself but they are in musicals. Some of these kids are at Brown, Yale, and Harvard. Actually a girl we know from theater here in VT who was in shows with my daughter is at Yale now as a soph and has already been in several shows there, including leads. When my older daughter went to visit Yale last year (not for theater) we met up with her and there were a lot of shows going on at school, not just for theater majors. Several kids in the shows were summer friends of my younger one. Anyway, that option is there and might be appropriate for some kids. My younger one has asked me the difference beweeen Steinhardt and Tisch and once someone on this LONG thread posted something a while back but your post now also explains the differences a bit. As I said, I am not quite there yet to look into it all cause first kids first....have a senior.

While Gadad is right about the front of the Fiske Guide to colleges listing the best programs in specific disciplines, including architecture and theater......be aware that the architecture list mostly has on it schools that have professional programs leading to the five year BArch degree or graduate MArch programs I described above. If your child is interested in prearchitecture programs (the ones where you major in architecture in college like any other major and then go on to grad school), the schools that offer that, are not necessarily on that list, so I am giving you a heads up.

My daughter has chosen to stay on the east coast so I can tell you where she is applying that has prearchitecture but obviously there are other programs out there. Plus she had other college criteria such as challenging level of academics, medium size, near interesting places where she may do things off campus, some level of a ski racing team, and offerings to participate in soccer, tennis, instrumental music, dance and theater. So, obviously everyone has different criteria. Also she wants the architecture program to have design, not a program with only architectural history. She wants a school where there is a study abroad option as well. Her schools are: Yale, Princeton, Brown, Penn, Tufts, Smith, Connecticut College, and Lehigh. My daughter is a senior, so no, she is not IN a program yet. She feels as sure as any 17 year old can be as to what she wants to pursue in college but did not want to committ to it as she would have had to if entering a five year BArch program. Plus she still wants to study other subjects and things like French. She has done things to explore this field (indep. studies, projects, papers, internship) so has a pretty good idea of liking it. But unlike my child in musical theater, it is not a subject you study through school. My musical theater kid has been in that field her whole life so far so KNOWS she wants it.

Obviously I am sorta new at it all but have spent the past year looking into these programs and visiting them with my daughter so if I can help you at all, just shoot me a question and I shall try. She has met with architecture professors, department heads, deans, and students in design studios at each school so we have seen a bunch up front. Next week, she is returning for a second visit to Yale which will include, among other things, meeting with a professor one on one and observing an architecture class. Let me know what else you wish to know on this topic.
Susan

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 11:48 am: Edit

Jaimom, thanks so much for your post. I've been struggling with music emphasis vs. conservatory (in particular, Steinhardt vs. Tisch) and it was great to hear another opinion.

About CMU: As I remember, the only non-MT courses students take are an English/Humanities class (or something along those lines) and a very basic Computer Skills class.

Shauna

By Wct (Wct) on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 05:15 pm: Edit

Shauna and others-
I put the web address below of the MT curriculum at CMU. First semester everyone takes World History and the Computer Skills class. Interpretation and Argument (English/Humanities)is second semester.
http://www.cmu.edu/cfa/drama/amt/mu-ugra-curriculum.htm

My son is in CFA Acting and all students, MT and Actors take the same acting and History/Humanities classes. It is interesting to see the different curriculum offerings in the Acting verses the MT program. Especially after the first year. MT is considered a double major whereas the Actors can take 1 class outside of their major, (of their choice) starting their second year. As a MT teacher and performer in the "real world" I am begining to understand the choice my son took regarding Acting verses MT even though he is a capable singer and dancer. I am beginning to realize that his choice will allow him to become a more versatile actor and a more well rounded person. This may not be the best choice for everyone reading this, but I would suggest considering it. Just because he is not majoring in MT does not mean he would never be cast in a musical. My son still has the option as an actor to take private voice at CMU for a fee. Being surrounded by so many dancers in the MT program I believe he could stay exposed, (if he chose) to the jazz and tap he learned prior to CMU. But as an actor he has some choices. After only 4 weeks in the program he is realizing that he still has a talent for writing,(after completeing a project for class) and that he may want to learn more about writing for the stage/film medium. Many actors in the real world are screenwriters/playwrights also. It has also become very clear to me in my experience that you really need to be a good actor to land MT roles. It just isn't how well you sing and dance anymore.
I also know that the more diversified you are (being able to act, sing, dance, do voice-overs, cabaret performance,film, write, and the list goes on), the more likely you will be able to make money consistently in the business. I am really starting to feel that having to have one class outside your major per semester is a good thing. I think my son will really benefit from it as a person and an actor.

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 06:45 pm: Edit

WCT,

Thanks for posting the MT curriculum at CMU. It is very important for prospective students to research the individual schools they are interested in. MT programs are very different in their emphasis. I was surprised to see how few music courses are required for CMU's MT major. My daughter is a second year student at the Hartt school. Their musical theater curriculum is:

http://www.hartford.edu/hartt/programs/curriculums/music_theatre.htm

Although only one dance class is required per semester it is possible to take additional dance classes at Hartt.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 12:10 am: Edit

I'm glad a lot of you found the post informative. Just a warning, it's all hearsay about NYU--I did not even get the school name right--Steinhardt. Steinhertz is one of my children's doctors so it was in the forefront of the brain. I have not personally checked out the programs so none of the info is even my personal opinion. That will come next year.
Question for WCT, when you apply to CMU in the College of Fine Arts as a Musical Theatre major, can you get accepted just as Voice or Drama if not as MT? I know the program is a combine of the two departments and very selective but if a child is not accepted to this combined program is he automatically considered in a more general major? I know that is the case in some MT programs which as I mentioned in a previous post helps as a safety valve but I can't seem to find any mention in CMU material that they operate that way.
I am looking for pre-architecture programs as Soozievt refers to and they are not generally listed, just the 5 year programs. This is the first time I've even seen them discussed. I did not know they even existed since my older ones' friends who went into architecture all took the 5 year route. But about half of them at least, changed their minds after a year or two in the programs just as kids in any major do. My son's roommate one year was so gung ho on architechture and is now a physics/engineering major. Another case I know personally is a graphic design major. So do bear in mind that these kids do change their minds a lot once they are in college. Even the ones who have had an end in sight for many years. The reality of being in a program can be different from planning on being in it. That is why I am still a little skeptical about the conservatory route for my child. If he changes his mind or wants to explore other subjects, he would be more restricted at, say Boston Conservatory, than at NYU. I've seen some real die-had kids change their majors to everyone's surprise.

By Wct (Wct) on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 02:38 am: Edit

Jamimom-
The way I understand it about CMU is that you have to audition for each program seperately. So if you are interested in Voice, Acting, and MT you would have to audition for all three. The audition requirements are different for all three also. Same as for the academic colleges within CMU that do not require an audition. You would have to apply to each college within CMU that you were interested in. I think it would be worth the effort to audition for more than one major if you really wanted to attend CMU.

By Gadad (Gadad) on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 03:22 pm: Edit

All these insights are very interesting and informative, and I appreciate them greatly. Let me ask for your opinions on one more thing.

Let's say the average MT program only accepts about 5% of those who audition. One could audition for eight different programs and the chances of being accepted at any one would still only be about 1 in 3 (even lower if you presume that some individuals are accepted in multiple programs). It was noted in an earlier post that there's really no such thing as a "safety" school in applying to MT.

But if a student was undeterred at not being accepted through the audition-based programs, it would seem that another route might be to go to a university where the music, drama, and dance programs are equally strong (Indiana? Sarah Lawrence? SMU?) and piece together their own MT preparation. Obviously, they'd not have the same kind of mentoring and advocacy from a well-placed MT program director, there would be no senior showcase in NY, etc. How viable / useful / practical would such an approach be?

By Wct (Wct) on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 04:55 pm: Edit

Gadad-
You have posed an interesting question. My only thought about doing MT the way you suggested would be being able to fit all the voice, acting, and dance credits in each semester with all the other academic requirements of your major without going over the suggested units per semester for that particular college. That seems to be the benefit of a BFA versus the BA. Piecing together a BA route for MT that doesn't already exist at a college might make it difficult to graduate in 4 years unless you went to summer school. Could I be off the mark on this? I know it could be done for an acting, voice, or dance major but probably difficult to create a BA MT major where one does not exist already. You could do a major and a minor in 2 out of the 3 areas of study and then take the other discipline privately I suppose. It probably depends on how intensely you want to study voice/acting/dance each semester.

Columbia College in Chicago has a MT Performance BA. They have rolling admission. I do not think you audition for their program. Info below>
http://www.studyusa.com/factshts/columbia.htm

I think you could put together a decent program at Occidental College in Los Angeles. My older son is a senior there. It is a wonderful campus and I know you have the opportunity to design a program to your liking if you wish. It is a private Liberal Arts College and you are close to the "industry" which is a plus. http://www.oxy.edu/

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 05:25 pm: Edit

Gadad, that is exactly the way to create a safety for MT or for someone who isn't all fire sure about the MT route but wants to start that way. The major is actually pretty rare; and many of the programs are new. Many actors and actresses have gone the route you have described.
WCT's son is an acting major at CMU and his post shows how much less restrictive being an Acting major at CMU is as opposed to MT. And yet you can take the voice and dance within the program; you just are not locked in. When you go for an audition, the main thing is how well you do in it and how well you fit the parts they have in mind.. They do not care about where you got your MT degree or if you are two courses short in voice from the average (if they have such a thing) MT degree. Those are all details. The nice thing about an MT program is that all those details are covered. I think with my child, he will explore various options, MT programs, drama and voice and see where he is most successful. I can't see going for a 5%chance of acceptance in 10 schools. I feel some sort of safety needs to be created so there are viable choices. One of the teachers at a well regarded theatre program who is also a working MT regular went to Binghamton and did not get an MT degree, yet that is her main thing now. She told me that it has never been a disadvantage to her and she really does not know who in her crowd went where with which degree. It's nice that all of these programs are available but if you cannot get into one, it does not mean you are finished in this field by any means.
WCt, did your son apply just to Acting at CMU or did he also apply to MT and decide to take the Acting option? I know that CMU allows multiple applications to its various schools but I would think that the same staff serves MT and Acting and Voice since there is such an overlap and to do 2 auditions seems strange. Actually, I think I will just end the speculation and call them and ask since none of their information addresses this
The problem with Columbia and the other ivys' programs is that you really have to be strong academically or have truly national statistics to get in since they do not have auditions. So it does not really give the kids an alternative that is more realistic. The girl I know who ended up at Yale was well within ivy parameters academically. Though many MT kids are also top level students there are also many who are inconsistent and will literally have to sing and dance their way through admissions (mine falls in that category).
Thanks, everyone for such great info. I will post when I have a few more answers about dual or triple options with one school.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 05:33 pm: Edit

Jennylynn, the first post on this site has a list of MT schools and many are in the Midwest. Also Wct mentions Columbia College in Chicago and I have heard good things about DePaul and Roosevelt Universities also in Chicago. Good luck.

By Wct (Wct) on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 06:02 pm: Edit

Jamimom-
My son only auditioned for the Acting Option at CMU. He decided before his college auditions that he wanted to concentrate on acting, (he is interested in film as well as stage).

The audition requirements are different for MT and Acting although they did ask my son to sing acapella in his acting audition unexpectedly, which he did. He was also asked to do an extra monologue from one of the shows on his resume, which he did. He was then sent to another room to be seen by another CMU staff person and was asked to repeat everything he had done in the other room. The second person said to him that he should consider doing MT somewhere(to this day I don't know if they were trying to get him to audition for the MT program at CMU or saying that if he wanted to do MT he should consider other programs).

At CMU the MT students and Acting students do have the same instructors for most classes. They are divided up into 3 mixed groups (Actors and MT) A, B, and C and assigned to instructors that way. That is for their acting I,speech I,voice I(speaking), and intro to movement classes. It is important to point out that the first year students MT/Acting do take most of the same classes. They don't diversify until year 2. Then MT and Acting take on different schedules. First year first semester the MT kids have 62 units,(MT Skills, Dance, voice(singing) opposed to 54 units for Actors, (thus the double major for MT students).

By Shauna (Shauna) on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 08:52 pm: Edit

Wct--

Thanks for the clarification. All these schools' programs run together... :-) What year of school is your son in right now?

Gadad--

I agree with Jamimom in that going that route is much better than no MT training at all, and that everyone who is applying for an MT major should have one or two of those on their list, especially for those who are applying to a lot of selective schools. Though you may not get a lot of connections, some schools without a listed MT majors have fantastic voice, dance, and theatre programs and haven't gotten around to lumping them all together.

Shauna

P.S.: Interesting to note that I haven't seen Juilliard mentioned much on this thread (Audra McDonald's alma mater).

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 09:49 pm: Edit

Maybe you have not heard Juilliard mentioned as much as they do not have a musical theater major. You would have to choose either acting or voice, I believe. My daughter has a friend who she went to theater camp with for many summers who is in her second year now at Juilliard. She did lots of musical theater and is very good at that. She got accepted into all the top musical theater college programs. She chose Juilliard cause of the reputation, even though it meant majoring in acting as opposed to musical theater. She likely still takes voice and can always do musical theater but felt the training and connections she is making at Juilliard were worth taking on the acting major. Getting in is daunting and few 18 year olds are accepted. She is loving it though it is hard work of course.

Susan

By Wct (Wct) on Monday, September 22, 2003 - 01:18 am: Edit

Shauna-
My son is in his freshman year at CMU. Hard to believe that it was a year ago when we started the whole process. What a year!

By Showstopmom (Showstopmom) on Monday, September 22, 2003 - 08:50 am: Edit

Ok, I finish the first semester in a few weeks and I'm starting over and I made a list of six schools that I am going to apply to. I have a couple questions. I don't want to blow these auditions and I was wondering...I am a high soprano and also have a high belt. Should I audition so that I show them both? I would like to know about monologues also. What would be the best plays to chose from? I'm so afraid I'm going to do the wrong thing. Can anyone please suggest some songs and plays? I would really appreciate this. Thanks.

By Jnpaul (Jnpaul) on Monday, September 22, 2003 - 09:11 am: Edit

Hello all. Sorry, but I just have to plug my own department. I am posting a link to an article from Playbill.com about the U of Michigan department and a new show we are premiering. Just thought you might be interested.

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/81698.html

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 12:18 am: Edit

Showstopmom,

Yes, of course you want to show them your high soprano and your belt. Most schools require two songs so that shouldn't be a problem. What monlogues/songs did you use when you auditioned last year? What did you use to audition for the re Broadway workshop you are doing? Consult with your current teachers and use what you have had success with in the past.

By Showstopmom (Showstopmom) on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 08:20 am: Edit

I was thinking that the monologues I used last time didn't do me a whole lot of good because of where I am now. I did something from checkov. As far as the pre broadway workshop...I sang a song from Beauty and the Beast and I didn't do a monologue, they had me cold read from the script. I can't really get help from any teachers at the school I'm at to audition for another school and I haven't done monologues from any plays, they are just pieces out of books.

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 08:50 am: Edit

I was under the impression that you were at AMDA because you wanted to be in NY not because you didn't have sucess with your audtions last year.

Someone that doesn't know you can't really help you in this area. You need to pick two songs that showcase your strengths (high soprano and high belt). Check with the individual colleges that you are going to apply to but usually they want one up tempo and one ballad.

Don't you have songs that you are working on with your current voice teacher that you could use. If not, you are in NYC, you should have no problem finding yourself another teacher or vocal coach to help you. You also don't have to tell your current voice teacher that you have an audition for another college, just that you have an audition. Wouldn't she help you prepare for an audtion for summer work?

Same thing with the monologues,find out what the colleges require and then find a monologue that is age appropriate that you feel comfortable with. You can start with a monologue book to get an idea what the play is like, just make sure you read the entire play of anything you decide to use.

You say you are doing "pieces out of books." in your classes, don't these come from plays? I have to say I am shocked that you you have not been asked to find and prepare a monologue for a class assignment. It is something that you need to get used to doing, but again, you are in NY if you need assistance, there are plenty of people available to help.

By Showstopmom (Showstopmom) on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 01:36 pm: Edit

At first I was worried about telling what school I was coming from but it seems there are quite a few of us dropping out. I applied to Juilliard and did not get in. The other schools I got into were mostly academic and not a huge concentration on musical theater. I was given scholarships for that and not my audition. I will do what you suggested though. Thanks.

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 01:51 pm: Edit

Showstopmom,

I've been watching the last series of posts and as you are getting good advice have refrained from simply repeating what others are saying. I'd like to add one note though, be sure to check with the particular schools you are targeting to see if they have a list of songs/shows/monologues they specifically do not want to hear. I know for a fact that CCM posts such a list and it would be audition suicide to ignore it.

By Showstopmom (Showstopmom) on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Mtdad, did you receive that information with the admission package you got from them? I don't see the list online. Thank you for that bit of information.

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 03:09 pm: Edit

Showstopmom,

CCM mails out a sheet of infor with the application. I have it here if you want I will scan it in and e-mail it to you.

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 04:22 pm: Edit

Showstopmom,

It's on their website . . . go to http://www.ccm.uc.edu/musical_theatre/ and you'll find both the latest "do not do" list as well as their suggestions on auditioning.

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 04:27 pm: Edit

RE: the list of shows/songs/monologues they don't want to hear. Is it just that so many kids used those the previous year that they are sick of them? I know when my son auditioned at CTC he said if he heard "All That Jazz" one more time he was going to kill the person.

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 06:53 pm: Edit

In regard to selection of audition material, keep in mind that performing material that both showcases your strengths and is not from the current popular or standard repertoire will set you apart from the herd. School auditions are cattle calls, to be noticed you must do more than just be a good performer. You won't find something the faculty does not know (these are professionals in the business), but you will peak their interest with more obscure material as well as demonstrate an in-depth knowledge of the theater. So look to "Candide", "Songs for a New World", or "Batboy" instead of "Phantom", "Beauty/Beast", or "Oklahoma".

By Showstopmom (Showstopmom) on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 09:01 pm: Edit

I just want to say thanks to cbs57, this is a huge help. Thank you all for all of your suggestions, I appreciate it very much.

By Klretop (Klretop) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 12:16 pm: Edit

My daughter is a senior in high school wanting to major in MT and applying to the following colleges: Northwestern, Yale, Stanford, Duke and U of Michigan. She is a strong candidate for all. Does anyone know of students at these schools who ultimately want to make a career out of musical theater? MT is her passion, yet she wants a well-rounded academically challenging college experience. She wants a campus atmosphere and prefers a "spirited" college. Is she missing any here? Is she way off base with any that I've listed?

Her auditions at Stanford and U of Michigan are coming up. Does anyone have any insights as to which plays have funny roles for women around her age? She's looking for monologues. Also, for auditions, when they say plays, do they also mean screen plays as in movies? We read which monlogues not to do, but we are finding it hard to get comedy roles within her age range. I thank you all ahead of time for your valuable input.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 12:39 pm: Edit

If you scroll up a few messages, there is someone with info on U of Michigan. I know a young lady who is in Yale for performing arts and she loves it there, the workers strike not withstanding. I posted her situation in an earlier post. Ironically, she did get into Yale but not U of Michigan. which academically makes no sense. Maybe a bad day auditioning. Yale does not audition--you have to get in academically and with MT as part of your EC list. I am new at this so I really don't know much about MT. My son wants to go this route so I am trying to find out as much as possible to ease the application process and find the best match for him. In his case , however, he will need the audition process to get into a selective school because his academics are not strong. I would have preferred to have him go the route your daughter is going. I am still a little skeptical aboout schools like Oklahoma City and U of CIncinatti, but I have never really been a fan of conservatories or other specialized workshops for 18 year olds. I believe that should come with grad school. But that is just a personal preference. I would prefer to have my son in a school where there are a lot of choices.
That said, if you go to any broadway show or anything associated with the business, you will notice a lot f affiliations with these schools. They do their job well, it seems. In my son's case, he is in the most rigorous academic program possible because he may not continue to pursue academics in college if he goes the song and dance route.
Browse through this thread, there are several hours worth of readings and it's the best one on this board I think. It really kills the story that showparents are cutthroats. A more generous hearted and helpful bunch you will not find anywhere. And it is the only place to find this info. Noone seems to have any idea about the MT world of college. I've worked with college admissions for over 20 years and I know nothing other than personal anecdotes, and I am finding the material very complex. Tisch vs Steinhardt. Conservatory vs college. MT program vs drama. all discussed here. Have fun. And let us know how your daughter's auditions went and her experience with Michigan and Stanford. No one has reported on Stanford before and I am very interested in Michigan. How heavily do the auditions count in those two schools?

By Jnpaul (Jnpaul) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 02:54 pm: Edit

Jamimom and Klretop,
I just entered the MT program at Michigan, and I was told by them that, as a general rule among MT programs at academic universities, the entire audition (singing, acting, dancing) counts for nearly 80%. This is very high, but there is certainly an academic factor as well. As far as having the opportunity to pursue academic interests, I feel Michigan is a wonderful place for that. And Klretop, what about Syracuse? Certainly, with the entire university one has the option to succeed in the academic field, and Syracuse is also a "spirited" college in a similar way that Michigan is.

By Doc021 (Doc021) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Hello all,

Although I am only a sophomore in high school i have begun my college search. I plan to major in MT, and i was wondering if there are any schools that have a strong program, but also require students to take courses such as English, social sciences, etc... I want to major in MT, but i also want a base in a regular education that a student at any undergraduate college would get.
Thanks so much!
Doc

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 05:31 pm: Edit

Jamimom,

You are right to view the BFA in MT, especially conservatory programs, with a skeptical eye. There are only a handful of students for which they are appropriate; namely those young people who have known for a long time that their passion for theater combined with a well developed talent will drive them to seek a life in the theater. It appears you have a long background dealing with college admissions. Therefore, you surely know that it's the rare 18 year-old that truly knows where they are headed in life. But such kids are out there pursuing their dreams in virtually all fields of endeavor. These young people are driven to do what they do; following an obsession may not be the healthiest path to take, but most will tell you that they just can't imagine doing anything else. The majority of the kids who go to the top programs while young in years have already established themselves as seasoned performers, many with Equity cards already in pocket. For these students the BFA and especially the conservatory setting are very good choices, but for anyone who is not obsessed with the theater it may well be the wrong path. My personal experience is with a child who caught the stage bug attending a theater day camp the summer before Kindergarten (we enrolled her simply as a way for her to burn off some of her boundless energy)and by third-grade she knew what she wanted. By the time she started her conservatory program she had 13 years of theater school, 13 years of community theater productions, and many years of voice & piano training to support her choice. The Boston's and CCM's of the world are for kids like this, but are most likely not the right choice for the majority of people.

By Wct (Wct) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 07:31 pm: Edit

klretop-
You asked about screenplays in regards to monologues for college auditions. This is not acceptable. Monologues must come from published works (plays), contemporary or classical. Some colleges, such as Boston University, give a specific classical monologue that they want done and then you can chose a monologue of your liking. Some schools list monologues to stay away from. It is important to read and understand the whole play from which your monologue is chosen. It is also good to get input from drama teachers as to what monologues best suit you. This is probably one of the toughest parts of the audition process. My son auditioned for 10 programs and had 6 monologues, (3 classical, 3 contemporary) from which to pull from. During his auditions several schools asked for more than what they required in print in the application. Be prepared for anything! Be prepared to present the monologue(s) several different ways if asked.

By Chrisru (Chrisru) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 07:47 pm: Edit

We are taking a trip in October to visit schools in the East. We have one week and are making final selections of which to include. I have read earlier that someone - Scott's (at Emerson) father? was impressed with Wagner College. When my son and I look at the website, it looks like there is not much music in the program, but yet they do 5 musicals in a year. Does anyone have an opinion or knowledge to share? Also, we were thinking of going to Ithaca, but it looks like they only do one musical a year. How do some of you feel about their program? Otherwise, we will see Emerson, Hartt, NYU, and possibly Syracuse. Any thoughts are appreciated. Also, I would love to know if Wagner is where showstopmom hates it. When we are so far away, and can only make one trip east before auditions, it is a big help to have opinions that could help us not waste our time. My son is a junior, so this is preliminary looking. So far we have been to CCM, IL Wesleyan, Roosevelt, and he spent 2 weeks at OCU (where he loves it). Thanks for any help.
Chris

By Alanz (Alanz) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 08:43 pm: Edit

Chrisru,

Yes I do have a good feeling about Wagner. They were the only school of eight that did group auditions (they treated the auditions much like a workshop).

When Scott was accepted to Wagner, he returned and spent a day there. He like the school but thought that others were a better fit for him.

His final three choices were Emerson, Syracuse and Northwestern.

Given the size of the school, its Boston location, and that he's in the honors program... Emerson is a great fit for Scott, and we think he will thrive there. He's off to a great start.

By Klretop (Klretop) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 09:11 pm: Edit

Thanks for all the advise. Does anyone know of specific plays which have comedic roles for women who are of college age? We are still looking for monologues. Thanks

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 11:30 pm: Edit

Chris,

I would recommend not visiting Wagner in advance. It may be a good school to use as a safety, but if so I would wait until the day of audtions to visit. My daughter was attracted to the location - so close to NY but as I wrote in a previous post:
We saw a show at Wagner and were very dissapointed. I would compare it to a bad high school production. Unhealthy singing, bad acting and bad dancing. It was so bad we left at intermission. The head of the department listed in his bio that his wife is a talent agent and so I think if you go in there with talent "she" may get you a job, but I don't think you will learn much.


Showstopmom is not at Wagner.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 04:44 pm: Edit

In the midst of the growing anxiety on all of our parts as this process of helping our kids realize their dreams of admission to a decent school to study MT (forget about the dreams of careers afterwards - that will be their responsibility.....), I thought I would share the positive experience I have been having over the last week or so. I have had reason to call the admissions offices of the following schools:

Boston Conservatory
Carnegie Mellon
Cinncinnati Conservatory
Emerson College
Ithaca College
Michigan
Northwestern
NYU Steinhardt
Penn State University and
Syracuse University

and WITHOUT exception, the people on the other end of the line were helpful, patient and informative. Even at "big, bad" CCM, the admissions person who answered the phone, and who I subsequently found out was on his first day at the job - and it showed - put me through to someone who was just wonderful and helpful. It just reminded me that while we have much to gain from helping each other with information, anecdotal and otherwise, on this website, there will also be misinformation here and/or information passed off as universal which is really rumor or unique to an individual person's experience. Whenever possible, the best bet is to seek out your information first hand. If you can't go visit a school, better to call the admissions office or even call the college/department directly responsible for MT and ask to talk to someone in the know. Ask the questions that are unique to your experience and your/your child's needs. These schools have nothing to gain by p---ing prospective students/parents off. If you get someone who is rude or uninformed, ask to speak to someone else. They exist.

Good luck everyone!

By Shauna (Shauna) on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 08:36 pm: Edit

Soozievt--

Yup, I know they don't have an MT major. But you'd think some people would be considering it anyway. :-)

Wct--

That is so crazy! Not only that it's been a crazy year for you, but the fact that I sat in on your son's acting class when I visited CMU. (At least, what I was told was that it was a freshman acting class with both acting and MT majors.) It was a large class, so I assume everyone, including your son, was there. It was a very long, but very interesting session. Each student had to go to the zoo and choose an animal. They then had to create a character out of the mannerisms and personality of that animal and portray that character in a mock town meeting debating whether to go to war with Iraq.

If your son told you about this class at all, I'd love to know which character he was! One thing that I do remember was that all the students were so nice. A very friendly mouse named Andrew even included me in the class and gave me some duct tape to board up my house with. :-)

Shauna

P.S.: I realized just after I posted this that this wouldn't have been your son's class, because I visited last February and they would be sophomores now! I think this college stuff is getting to me.

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 02:29 am: Edit

Shauna-

The acting classes at CMU are long...about 2 1/2 hours Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. My son says that "guests" come and visit all the time. I agree with you that the students are very nice, (this year too).

It is almost the end of week 5 now at CMU and my son is not getting much sleep. The schedule is grueling and he has now started "tech", (evenings) for Measure for Measure so it is getting hard to get the time to do homework. He now has 10 hour days on Saturday due to crew work for Measure for Measure. This is on top of his regular Mon-Fri class schedule. He still loves every minute of it. Even with 54 units this semester!

Now I know why the students from the other colleges at CMU say they never see the actors.

By Doc021 (Doc021) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 11:54 am: Edit

Hello all,
I posted this before and i havenot gotten a resonse. So i have decided to post it again.

Although I am only a sophomore in high school i have begun my college search. I plan to major in MT, and i was wondering if there are any schools that have a strong program, but also require students to take courses such as English, social sciences, etc... I want to major in MT, but i also want a base in a regular education that a student at any undergraduate college would get.
Thank you,
Doc

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 12:58 pm: Edit

Doc021-
Look at Northwestern, NYU, Emerson. There is a huge list of schools at the top of part five of this thread. My advise would be to take the list and, a little at a time, look at the web pages from these schools. Go to the department web page and look at the curriculum. Only you will be able to decide for yourself if a particular program offers what you are looking for.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 01:03 pm: Edit

Doc021
Go back and thoroughly read as much of this thread as you can handle and you'll find lots of different opinions as to the advisability of trying to pursue both an MT degree and get a good liberal arts education. My daughter is applying to 11 schools this year and to my knowledge, only one of them, Penn State University, claims to offer a conservatory type musical theater experience while also requiring 1/3 of the classes to be in liberal arts. The others offer no LA courses or a maximum of 1 course a semester and that one is often regimented as a "core curriculum" course. Can it be done with the same outcome as a full blown, that's-all-there-is MT conservatory program? I haven't a clue. I do know that the professionals with whom we have contact are really divided about whether or not a conservatory program produces the best working professionals in the long run. Some say "yea," others say "nay." You'll hear some say that they'd rather die than work with an actor who's life experience and education is limited only to the theater and others who'll say "a thinkin' actor is a stinkin' actor," by which they infer that intelligence can get in the way of theatrical process. The Tisch School at NYU, where my daughter is not applying, also claims a conservatory program in which the kids spend 3 days a week in studio classes and 2 days a week in liberal arts. It's academic admission requirements are very high.

And this is not to say that conservatory kids are limited in any way. It's just that their pursuit of knowledge outside of MT has to be more self-directed and/or deferred to when they have more time.

Sorry I don't have more info on schools with strong MT programs that are not "conservatory" style.

My own personal opinion, for what it's worth, is that you should follow your own instincts - if a broader liberal arts curriculum is important to you, go for it. There are lots of jobs out there and they are certainly not all filled with the graduates of conservatory programs. As many here have noted, it's right for some and wrong for others. Don't feel pressured to attend one of those programs because of the prestige factor. If the talent and determination are there (and as with all, a little bit of luck), you will find your way to where you are supposed to be.

My goodness, how Zen-like that sounds and from a Jewish mother! But I think you understand what I mean. You are only a sophomore. Take your time and explore your options. This search really can be fun. Relax and enjoy it. Good luck!

By Mwc228 (Mwc228) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 05:10 pm: Edit

Well I don't know how much this will help anyone or anything... but I saw a post about schedules at CMU and thought I would add my Tisch schedule (I'm a freshman)... I also have some insight into CMU's Precollege if anyone would like it as well as the Cambridge Tradition Drama summer program

This is for Playwrights Horizons Theater School -- for anyone who doesn't know, NYU Tisch Drama is divided into 8 studios which each have different focuses or teach different methods. Playwrights is NOT A PLAYWRIGHTING STUDIO (i'm sick of getting asked what kind of plays i write) -- we are a studio dedicated to learning all facets of theater, as you'll see.

Monday:
9 Gym (not school required or anything)
11 - 12:30 Intro to Theater Studies
2-3:15 Art and the World
3:30-4:45 Writing the Essay/The World through Art

Tuesday:
7:45 Gym
9:30-11:20 Acting
[11:20-12 We all stay together as a group and rehearse scenes for Directing class -- more on the "group" idea and dynamic later]
12-2:50 Directing
4:15-5:50 Movement

Wed:
9 Gym
11-12:30 Intro to Theater Studies
3:30-4:45 Writing the Essay/The World through Art

Thursday:
7:45 Gym
9-10:20 Voice
10:30-11:20 Speech
11:30-1:20 Design
3-4:20 Movement (African Drum Dancing!!!!)
4:30-5:50 Business of Theater

Friday:
7:45 Gym
9:30-10:20 Voice
12-2:15 Acting
2:45-4:45 Speech

It should be noted that EVERY break between classes we are rehearsing with people in our groups. I don't know about the other studio, but in Playwrights the class is divided into groups of 15, labeled by color, and this is whom all the studio classes are taken with.

The difference between Playwrights and most other studios is that every single class hands out written work, biiiig time. I have a roommate in CAP and she has very little written homework and even rehearsing -- she's usually recording songs, etc.. But because of the collaborative and productive (i.e. creating new works) nature of Playwrights, we are constantly having to work and rework scenes and pieces together.

I usually have about 3 and halfish hours of homework a night, which really wouldn't be that horrible except for the fact that we're in class or rehearsing SO much. I read 4 to 5 plays a week for Theater Studies, must make a new work every week for directing, yada yada, you get the idea.

If you or your kid wants to party in college...or go out at all..don't send them to Tisch. That's not meant to scare or anything, but I was a hard partier in high school and I haven't been out once, as all my weekends are taken up by rehearsals and paper writing and design projects (oh god don't get me started on the design projects..) and field trips -- oh field trips... we're required to see 12 non-nyu shows a semester, i've had to go to 4 art galleries so far, and we have to screen a loooot of movies in the library.

Anywho, all that said, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT HERE and could not see myself anywhere else doing ANYTHING but this. I am also in love with Playwrights, thank God, as many people "can't handle it" or have a breakdown over the work load (that's the Playwrights rep. -- way too much work, way too little time, way too many student breakdowns).

You just have to know what you want and understand why you are at your school, in your program.

hope this helped!!

p.s. directors, some designers, "COW" track aka Creating Original Works, Actors, Stage Managers and some playwrights go to Playwrights Horizons Theater School.... But in the beginning EVERYONE is considered an actor and takes the same curriculum, and everyone is held up to the same ACTING criteria in auditions, etc.. Just thought I'd clarify :-)

p.p.s. there are 3 other girls in Playwrights that went to CMU's precollege the same summer I did -- I just found this interesting and thought I'd share. None of us chose/wanted to go to CMU (I was asked to come for early admission after the summer but decided against it) -- ALTHOUGH I CAN SAY NOOOOTHING BUT GOOD THINGS ABOUT THE PEOPLE AND THE PLACE AND THE THINGS THEY DO

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 11:34 pm: Edit

Mwc....Thanks for your informative post. My 15 year old has a dozen friends currently at Tisch and has hopes of going there one day herself. I am almost certain that one of these good friends is a freshman in Playwrights Horizon also (she just saw him in the city recently). His name is Jordan and he is from TN, a great actor but also an accomplished fiddle player. I wonder if you are in groups together. We live in VT but my daughter has spent six summers at the same summer theater program as him (as well as the other 11 kids she knows at Tisch). Do you know Jordan?
Susan

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 11:39 pm: Edit

Mwc...Could you tell us what the performing opportunities are like at Playwrights Horizon?

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 10:54 am: Edit

Doc021,
Wct has given you some great advice. The only way to find the program right for you is to do your homework. Look at the websites of the schools you are interested in and checkout their curriculum requirements. You can find out how many courses are required in drama, music, and dance and how many liberal arts courses are required. I did this for all the schools my daughter was/is interested in. I will give you some statistics on her final contender schools. The percentages I'm listing are for the percentage of drama, music, and dance courses required out of the total required for graduation.
Carnegie-Mellon 95%
Webster 90%
Boston Conservatory 87%
Ithaca 85%
Roosevelt 81%
Hartt 74-78%
Syracuse 70-78%
U. Michigan 76%
Point Park 75%
CCM 74%
U. Arts 73%
Florida State 71-73%
Otterbein 71%
Wright State 71%
Kent State 69%
U. Akron 68%
Penn State 65%

Note to All,
My daughter and I are no longer interested in many of the schools listed above, so I can't answer many questions about their programs! I did the percentages several months ago as a way of helping my daughter see which schools had more of a conservatory approach to the MT program and which schools required more liberal arts courses.

By Wct (Wct) on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Doc021,
What a GREAT post! I am sure everyone that visits this site will really appreciate you sharing the work you did to figure the percentages. I am going to share this info with my MT high school students. Thank you!

Out of curiosity why was NYU not on your list? It appears that NYU is very popular among MT college hopefulls. It was originally my son's first choice, (outside of his dream which was Juilliard), but after we visited and had a close look at the curriculum it fell short of what he was looking for in an acting program. Several of our graduates from the Orange County High School of the Arts, (OCHSA) go there after graduation and love it but it just wasn't a good fit for my son. That is why I stress that students must visit the school of their choice before they, (and their family) make that deposit. Colleges can look great in pictures, on paper, and word of mouth, but you really don't know until you truly experience it.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Sunday, September 28, 2003 - 11:28 pm: Edit

I am having a major scheduling difficulty; can anyone help me?

I live in So. Cal., and want to audition in L.A. However, UC - CCM is there on Feb. 8, and CMU is there on Feb. 8 & 9. Do I dare risk scheduling them on the same day? I've tried to contact both the schools with no response. I really, REALLY don't want to have to audition elsewhere for financial reasons, but I don't know if the scheduling will overlap.

Thanks!

Shauna

P.S.: Does anyone know what day in February NYU - Tisch is in L.A.?

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 12:29 am: Edit

Des anyone know how NYU weighs talent into the admissions process? Is it pretty much balanced with high school academics? or does one out-weigh the other? I had an 3.56 (which is an A- average) in high school, but i didnt really focus on my work because I was always too involved with Music.... Hopefully someone can help me out because i'm planning on applying early decision. Thanks a lot!!!

Angie

By Whimsical (Whimsical) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 02:21 am: Edit

I'd like to add Sam Houston State University to the list! I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw University of North Texas listed but not SHSU. SHSU has a far better MT program. It's just now starting to get known. Broadway Theatre Project listed it in their top 10 musical theatre programs in the US! I love the program. It's wonderful and just the right measure of competitive and supportive.

Just thought I'd let you know. If anyone has any questions, I'm here to help.

By Theatrekid18 (Theatrekid18) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 04:06 am: Edit

I just started at UCLA as a Theatre major with an emphasis in Musical Theatre. However, I am currently on a surge of good fortune and I am questioning whether or not to ride it. Recently I attained my equity card because I performed with Pittsburgh Civic Light Opera and their summer stock program. In May I was cast in the national (non eq) tour of MISS SAIGON, and I turned it down because I was finishing high school. Last month I was offered the role of Simon Zealotes in the national Equity tour of Jesus Christ Superstar, which I regretably turned down because I am starting school at LA. On friday, I have also been invited to join the ensemble of the broadway or national touring cast of HAIRSPRAY. I audition not thinking I am going to land anything, and everytime I do I have a harder and harder time turning them down. Now I am thinking that BROADWAY at 18 is not a typical thing and I should ride this, despite the fact that I would have to drop out of school. I am leaning toward dropping out, but the contract they are extending me is only for 6 months, at which time I will be up for renewal. OPINIONS on what to do? My Mom is just as torn as I am.

By Theatrekid18 (Theatrekid18) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 04:24 am: Edit

Acavello1...DON'T BE intimidated by grades when applying to colleges. Most schools, if you are exceptionally talented, will over look grades. I had a 3.2 in high school and was accepted into NYU Tisch (Cap21) and UCLA (and, to equal out my point, I was waitlisted by Carnegie Mellon and turned down by Emerson and Boston)

By Wct (Wct) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 04:39 am: Edit

Shauna-
Last year when my son did his auditions in LA and San Francisco we scheduled 2 to 3 on each day. In Los Angeles last year many of the schools did a weekend at the LAX Hilton. It was very convenient. The people in charge of scheduling at the colleges really worked with us to make it work. Ask them where the auditions are going to be held. Try scheduling one in the morning and one in the afternoon on each day. I remember NYU not having sign ups for auditions on their web site until mid-late October. I had to check the web site daily. Check it out now and see what date they have listed and then keep checking. I remember most of the schools scheduled in LA around Feb.8-11 in '03. They were in San Francisco before LA. It really wasn't bad going to San Francisco first and then LA for auditions over the one week period. We drove and it worked out fine. We live in So. Cal. too.

Acavallo 1- NYU will tell you that it is 50-50 weighted talent/academics. They do look at your grades and your SAT score.

Theatrekid18-Many students in your position defer their acceptance at the college of their choice for a year. I would think UCLA would have that option to defer or to take a leave of absence. Only you can make a decision like this. Write out all the pro's and con's on a piece of paper and go from there. Good luck!

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 07:23 am: Edit

Theatrekid18

What is the main reason you want to go to college? If it is to be a musical theater performer then why would you turn down an equity job? I can understand you turning down the non equity tour, but I'm surprised you turned down the equity tour and I would recommend you take the Hairspray role. This is a fickle business and along with talent and training you "need to be in the right place at the right time." It sounds like this is your time to work. You can always go back to school, but you may not have these performing opportunities again.
And a six month contract sounds ideal. It will give you 6 months to decide if that is what is right for you or if you want to return to school.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 09:51 am: Edit

Regarding NYU, I understand that the admissions office has to accept you in addition to getting accepted by Tisch or Steinhardt. I am not sure you even get an audition until you make it through the admissions office. The cut is usually a 3.0 and some SAT number that fluctuates year to year ( I hear that it is 1200 at Steinhardt but it is hearsay and in an old Guide to Performing Arts Programs--Tisch is supposedly a bit more lenient--hearsay again), and there is supposedly some play with that figure. Michigan says a min of 3.0 and 1100 on SATs and you have to get through their admissions office before auditioning. My feeling is that they are both such huge schools that I don't believe they can give the transcript a whole lot of scrutiny and if you look like you are not a 3.0 than out you go. Now CMU looks at your application with the audition results and counts them very heavily. I don't know how other schools do it other than Juilliard and they don't care about SATs or transcript as long as you are graduating and don't have a criminal flag on your file--the audition is everything there. I am interested in any comments or additions to this info because I have a child who is borderline on the GPA end of the requirements.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 11:01 am: Edit

Theatrekid18,
First, I want to offer you congratulations! I know what you mean by auditioning for Bdway or tours and not expecting to get it but YOU DID! I mean few can say that! I agree with all that Cbs57 wrote. If your goal is to become a musical theater actor on Broadway, your opportunities are knocking NOW. Training and education is important but you can come back to it. Credits and equity and all that is also important. A peer of my 15 year old daughter's who is 18 and just graduted high school was due to enroll this fall in Steinhardt at NYU. Over the summer, she got cast in the national tour of Mamma Mia as ensemble but as understudy to the lead. She took the job and deferred her enrollment a year at NYU. Only you can decide what you want to do this year and how it all fits the greater goals you have. But you could definitely talk to your school about deferring a year, NOT dropping out, due to being cast on an equity tour. This has happened to others before. I say you are very lucky (due to talent of course) and you might want to weigh taking it and then returning to school as planned. The rate you are going, more offers might come after the tour is up. Education is important and you can always get it. Being cast at this level, if your ulitmate goal, is knocking now. If it were my kid and she wanted to do it, I would say take it and return to school as planned when it ended. Good luck on this decision but no matter what, congrats on the offers....quite impressive....you have what it takes!
Susan

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 11:40 am: Edit

Regarding NYU-Steinhardt:

My daughter is applying to NYU-Steinhardt because the vocal performance and musical theater programs are under the same academic umbrella and there is signifigant and welcomed crossover between the two. And yes, you do have to be accepted by NYU in order to be accepted into Steinhardt i.e., both programs have to accept you. The application goes to NYU, not to Steinhardt. BUT - Steinhardt does offer two "open audition" days on Sunday November 2 and Sunday November 16. While attending one of these auditions (which I was told are viewed and evaluated by the same faculty who will judge the scheduled auditions later in the year) will get you seen before NYU reviews and acts on your app, the process is still the same. Steinhardt may decide it wants you, but they will still have to wait to hear from the NYU Admissions office. And hear this - the admissions officer told me that the median SAT scores for the students in Voice/MT at Steinhardt last year was between 1300 - 1450! but also said many kids do fall outside that range. The advantage, and the reason we decided to do the open auditions is as follows:
1) Logistically scheduling auditions can be a nightmare - some schools will schedule before they receive all your materials, others will not. You have to check with each school, lay out all the available dates and then try to work out a schedule and then HOPE you get your requested date. Taking advantage of those opportunities to audition before apps are received loosens up the process somewhat.
2) If you are prepared, then spacing out the auditions by doing some early can provide some relief and rest in between.

Hope this helps some of you. Call Steinhardt if you are interested in the Open Audition Days. They will send you a form because you do have to make a reservation prior to Oct 24.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 11:47 am: Edit

Side note: deferred entrance to UC is *very* difficult to get.

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 01:01 pm: Edit

Thanks so much for your responses! They really helped a lot.

TheatreKid18 - Do you go to NYU now? Just wondering because Im trying for CAP 21.

Thanks!!

Angie

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 01:03 pm: Edit

theatrekid - ha. nevermind. i just read the post you put on before mine. whoops. thanks again though!

By Mwc228 (Mwc228) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 01:27 pm: Edit

Playwrights, like any other Tisch studio, doesn't allow freshmen to perform in NYU productions. However we do a loooot of work in class, plays, scenes, etc.

If you wanted to flunk out of school you COULD do outside work. I'm sure some arrogant kid will read this and think ooooh i can't go two semesters without doing a show and i can handle the work...TRUST ME. You can't.

Soozviet -- I DO know jordan actually, red headed kid from tn. I don't KNOW know him, but I do have one class (business) with him when our two groups are together. He's a nice kid, and I'm sure you're referring to stage door manor because he's always wearing their sweatpants

ANNND I had a 1460 on my sats -- 790 v 670 m -- and as far as my group at Tisch goes, I'm about the lowest score in the group...which was both surprising and not surprising to me. Hope this helps!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 01:39 pm: Edit

Mwc...yes, I was referring to Stagedoor Manor where my daughter will be going for her seventh summer next summer. Jordan has gone for a long time as well and while he is quite a bit older than my daughter, they are good friends and they have been in shows together. She just met up with him when she was in NYC for an audition (we live in Vermont). My daughter has many theater camp friends at Tisch but I just mentioned Jordan cause he is your age and in Playwrights. If you ever meet him, you could tell him you connected online with his friend from VT's mom...lol. My husband played some music with Jordan on a parent weekend...Jordan on fiddle, my husband on guitar. I am positive he will know who I mean.

Enjoy your time at Tisch. You must be quite talented to make it in. I hope my daughter's dream of doing so comes true when the time comes. Her interest is more in Cap21 but it is still a ways away.
Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 01:44 pm: Edit

Thedad...while admittedly I am not up on UC policies, I am not sure this boy's situation is considered a deferred entrance. Rather he has already begun there as a student. I would think in a musical theater program, if a kid got a Broadway show or equity contract, he may be able to take a leave of absence and return. Of course he has to look into it but this is not like quitting school. I think it would be worth his while to inquire in the program. It is a little different than applying but then not entering. He has already entered. He would need to take a leave.
Susan

By Theatrekid18 (Theatrekid18) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 02:17 pm: Edit

Thanks everyone for the advice! I talked to some counselors today and they are reviewing me for a leave of absence or indeed deferred entrance, because we only started classes last week and it might not be too late. Thank you everyone for the advice, I still haven't made my final choice but atleast now I have all my options out infront of me.

By Mikeashton (Mikeashton) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 04:04 pm: Edit

Sorry, but I have to disagree with the seemingly popular assement here that just because someone offeres you an "Equity" gig, you shouldn't pass that up. Theaterkid is very smart in realizing that education and training will pay off FAR MORE in the future than taking a job today.

Do you folks know how many unemployed 20 somethings are out there? These were kids who went to an audition, got VERY lucky, got a job and a year later....they join the pile of others 20 somethings who are looking for work. And I'll tell ya..being 22 and looking for a acting job isn't all that easy..cause there are thousands of other 20 somethings out there as well. Many of thise stayed in school and learned their craft and perfected it. I'm not saying that Theaterkid or others will never work again, but by studying your craft in school, you have an advantage over those who haven't taken the time to really get to understand the business. Just because one show thinks you're the greatest doesn't mean that the other shows will think the same.

It is the biggest mistake for young people to get their Equity card at a very early age. They do not know the business and can not be as versitile as others who have studied the craft in college. Even if you've studied tap for 10 years before college, you'll still learn new things and even find out the things you've been doing wrong! Plus, college allows the student to grow up. It teaches you how to deal with life and life's situations. Going from high school to national tour won't teach you anything.

I speak from experience. I seen many, MANY eager kids make the mistake of going Equity early in their lives, only to wait four or five years till they get their next job. Then they get pissed and drop out blaming everyone but themselves. I know of three 20 something kids I did a tour with who have left the business cause they didn't find more work. They also didn't go to college and now don't have a college degree which would help them find alternative employment.

Theaterkid, I think you were wise to wait. If you have all this success at an early age, it won't go away..eventhough most think they have to grab it when it hits. You are talented and that talent can only grow more powerful with a college education (and make you more marketable!). Take the chance to be a kid before you throw youself into the demanding and gruling world of professional theater.

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 05:00 pm: Edit

Theatrekid,

Your're going to hear from the parent in me, so take it for what it's worth. Apart from whether or not taking on a NYC show, much less a tour, is a good career move, I'd like you to honestly look at if you are mature enough to take on such a job. At 18 are you ready to be on your own in NYC? Or handle a tour? Touring is tough, tough work, especially with a show that is on the go between cities doing short runs. The stresses are enormous and will make the temptations around booze, drugs, food, etc. all that much more hard to resist . . . especially if you are on the road upwards of a year. Not to downplay the opportunity, but you should look at all the ramifications of your decision. However, keep in mind that neither a NYC or tour job is a commitment for the whole run. People can and do leave shows in mid-run, even on tour . . . it happens all the time. Wishing you all the best . .

By Alanz (Alanz) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 05:13 pm: Edit

TheaterMom,

I'm a bit confused

---

Quote:

the admissions officer told me that the median SAT scores for the students in Voice/MT at Steinhardt last year was between 1300 - 1450! but also said many kids do fall outside that range.

---

By Songbirdy4 (Songbirdy4) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 07:31 pm: Edit

Wow. I just spent about an hour, Maybe a LOT longer reading just this last page of your postings. that's pretty cool stuff you've all provided. I'm a high school senoir who is completely FREAKING OUT about what colleges to apply for and how to audition, when to audition, everything. I'm quite glad that chance allowed me to stumble upon this site through a random search. There is a lot of really great advice on this page. So here i am, and i'm going to ask you for more.

Here's my biggest problem right now: i am TERRIFIED that i won't get accepted to any of the programs i apply to. I know i have initial talent. I'm just very unsure of how deep it goes. I am 100% sure that if my voice alone could get me into musical theater, i could be in any program. I haven't had enough oppurtunity to see how realisticly good i am as an actor. I know that there must be something there too though, because of roles i've had and because i excell in speech team. My huge mountain problem is my lack of confidence in dance. I have very little formal training, but i CAN dance. If i had taken dance classes for years i'd be fine. but the fact is that i haven't. so, now, with so little time left before college auditions, what do i do?

How many schools do i apply to?
Should i spend all of my time and money on dance classes this year?
DO i HAVE to take the SAT (i've taken ACT) to get into East Coast schools?
Should i audition for both a musical theater major and a vocal major at all schools i apply to?

help!

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 07:32 pm: Edit

Wct,
NYU is not on the list because for some reason that my daughter has not explained to me, she does not want to go to school in New York. She announced this to me last January before I had done the liberal arts vs. MT course requirement comparison. I suspect that she crossed New York City off her list for two reasons. 1) I think she wants NYC to still be new and fresh when she graduates from college. 2) She has a friend in NYC who is deferring college. This friend moved to the city a year ago and decided to find acting and dance classes and a voice teacher on her own. She's currently doing a tour of "Carousel". I think that her conversations with my daughter may have convinced her that she didn't want to be in NYC yet. The above reasons are guess-work on my part because the kid isn't communicating on the NYC issue!

By Showstopmom (Showstopmom) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 08:12 pm: Edit

theaterkid18, I would not turn down the offer for hairspray. Laura Benanti was eighteen when she took the role of understudy for Maria in the Sound of Music on Broadway. Since then she has had a promising career. You're right, it doesn't happen very often with an 18 year old, so go for it.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 08:19 pm: Edit

Alanz,

Forgive me - you are absolutely correct about the meaning of the word median. It's been a busy couple days/weeks, I wrote the post in a hurry and misused the word. However, while the word was wrong, the numbers I quoted are correct (those I wrote down!). I don't remember the exact word the admissions officer used (I've been making a lot of calls lately....) but I believe she was trying to make the point that the majority (my word) of students in their program had SAT's in the range of 1300 - 1450. To repeat, she also stated that many kids are accepted into program who fall outside that range and that there is "wiggle room" (her words). Thanks for your careful reading and pointing out the mistake.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 11:21 pm: Edit

Mikeashton, you make many valid points. I just respectfully disagree in that you are speaking as if should he take a job on Broadway or Tour, then he would have no education. You make all the right points as to why an education will serve him well in the long run. But I do not think this kid is thinking education VS Hairspray. One does not preclude the other. Should he decide to do a six month contract for Hairspray, he certainly can go back to school to pursue that training, and from the way he sounds, he intends to do that cause obviously he values it as he has turned down other roles. Your points about attaining equity at a young age are also quite valid. If I read correctly, however, this young man already IS Equity. So, I am not sure the issue in his case was education Vs. a big theater opportunity. People defer college for a year for many reasons and this reason would be worthwhile as it is an experience related to his major and his long term goals.

Anyway, I am sure he will do what feels right for him. I just would not want him to think it is either/or....cause it is only either/or for a temporary time. Education will still be there when his contract is up.

Needless to say I HIGHLY value education. Education itself is my own career field and the area in which I have a graduate degree. But if my kid got in Hairspray, no way would I not let her do it.....I know her dreams and that kind of thing is one of them. I know she also values education and would not give up on education just cause of one big casting opportunity. Someone very driven in theater would have a hard time passing this up. But everyone is different of course.

No matter what....I think this kid has a good head on his shoulders from how he is handling stuff...and obviously shows great promise on stage!
Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, September 29, 2003 - 11:27 pm: Edit

Dancersmom....I know this is the big world wide web but I just have this inkling that my friend is the same young woman your daughter is speaking of.....she is from Cincinatti, is 18, has been in NYC the past year, has a big dance background, did a tour for younger audiences last year and is in Carousel now but it is not a tour but is in Ohio. It sounds weird, I know but I am wondering if it is my friend of whom you speak? Her first name begins with S. I guess it is not that weird cause on this thread, a few times already I have run into people I either know or have a connection of some sort....like other parents of a summer program my kid attends or stuff like that. I guess the musical theater world ain't all that big....even on the web on some college site!

By Alanz (Alanz) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 07:05 am: Edit

Theatermom,

Thanks for the clarification. Here's a little story about SAT scores.

When Scott auditioned for one of the schools, the director of the program told him that he had the highest SAT scores of anyone applying to the program.

When we left the audition, Scott wondered why there aren't many "smart" students who want to major in Musical Theater.

I smiled and told him that most of the smart students know enough to not pursue an acting career, but go for something that has a better chance of actually earning a living

He smiled back, knowingly.

Now that he's at Emerson, he's in their Honor's program. Of the 40 freshman in the program, I believe he's the only MT major.

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 11:46 am: Edit

Theaterkid,

I tend to agree with Mikeashton regarding taking a long hard look at going Equity at 18. Regardless of the few success stories noted it is generally not a good idea to go union too early. With very few exceptions once you have an Equity card you will be prevented from doing anything except Equity shows. You should sit down and really evaluate whether or not you are ready to compete with Equity actors for the increasingly limited available roles. Are you ready and willing to take an ensemble role if it means limiting your future choices.

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 12:49 pm: Edit

Mtdad,

I do agree with you that it is not always advisable to get your equity card early - it really does limit your performing opportunities -but theaterkid18's post says that he already has his equity card.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 01:47 pm: Edit

I was saying also what CBS57 is saying. This kid said he had an equity card. The points about not going equity young are very valid but he is there already. The points about pursuing the education are also quite important. It just is not that he has to choose between them. He can do one, than the other. This is a great discussion. But I do think this young man is in a situation where it is not about whether to go equity or not....he is.....nor whether to choose education vs. a big theater opportunity cause he can do one and go back to the other.

The issues people have raised, however, are worthy considerations if one HAD to make such a choice of equity at a young age vs. waiting and education vs. theater jobs.

Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 01:49 pm: Edit

I was saying also what CBS57 is saying. This kid said he had an equity card. The points about not going equity young are very valid but here is there already. The points about pursuing the education are also quite important. It just is not that he has to choose between them. He can do one, than the other. This is a great discussion. But I do think this young man is in a situation where it is not about whether to go equity or not....he is.....nor whether to choose education vs. a big theater opportunity cause he can do one and go back to the other.

The issues people have raised, however, are worthy considerations if one HAD to make such a choice of equity at a young age vs. waiting and education vs. theater jobs.

Susan

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 02:14 pm: Edit

Soozievt,
Sounds like we are talking about the same person. Her name does start with S (and ends with i). She attended the performing arts high school in Cinti. for a while, but didn't like it. She ended up home-schooling. The last couple of years before she graduated from high school she and my daughter were in dance classes together at CCM prep. My daughter is still in contact with her pretty regularly. In fact, she just called this past weekend. Unfortunately, no one was home at the time. S is a very talented girl and a nice person too. How do you happen to know her?

By Theatrekid18 (Theatrekid18) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 02:51 pm: Edit

I recieved my equity card this summer performing summer stock for Pittsburgh Civic Light Opera. My dilemma is actually whether or not to defer school to accept a touring/broadway offer.

By Mikeashton (Mikeashton) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 02:56 pm: Edit

Sure you can do a tour and then go to college...but do you know how many actually do that or would want to do that?

Once you've been touring and enjoying your freedom, do you really want to go back to an 8AM to 6 PM lifestyle where you have tests and finals? As I said above, I know kids who took the early success and then had nothing. Going back to school would admit failure, plus restrict them from auditioning or persuing other work. It's a catch 22 situation.

Take the opportunity to learn now. The longer you wait, the harder it gets. If you are offered great work now, you will still get these offers in four years.

And I know. I speak from experience.

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 08:54 pm: Edit

Mikeashton,

My daughter has a number of friends that have either deferred school for a year or taken a year or two off to go on tours. They learned quite a lot from working!! (And some job offers may not be available at a later date - you can only play the role of a high school student for so long.) All of her friends returned to school at the end of their tours. None of them considered going back to school a failure, since that was their plan from the start.

I also know of a number of people that decided not to go to college and went straight to New York. Two of these people were successful, but after a number of years decided that the theater life was not for them, they wanted more family friendly careers and went back to school to persue another field.

Theaterkid has nothing to loose and a lot to gain by taking the Hairspray job.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 09:46 pm: Edit

Mikeashton....while I understand you are speaking from experience, it seems like a huge assumption to make that if one were to work for a year in theater, that one would not then return to school or if they did, to consider it a failure. I think if one intends to get an education, one will. A year working in the field does not preclude continuing on with school. It is merely one experience, a great one at that, and might enhance the eventual college study. Think of the many young successful actors in film....who have chosen to get a college education...I would hardly assume it was cause they felt they failed so now had to return to school. They might put doing films on the back burner or do them in summer but they value getting an education. For example, Natalie Portman has been on Broadway, and in many successful film roles, but still went on to school....and not cause she did not succeed in the performing arts work force but cause she still wanted that degree. I can think of other young people who have been on Broadway who are now college students but not cause they failed and had to return to school but want both....
Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Tuesday, September 30, 2003 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Dancersmom....well, lo and behold, it is a small world, even on the internet cause indeed this is the same girl who I am friends with. I cannot even remember when I first got to know her but it has to be four years or so ago. She was still in the performing arts high school even. So, that was a while ago. We met online believe it or not. I do not even recall just how...must have been through a message board likely related to musical theater. Because of her homeschooling, she was online alot during the school day, a time when I have free(r) with the kids out. We used to have long conversations not just related to theater and dance stuff, but also education....she is a gifted learner and I have a keen interest in that as well cause of my two kids who have that leaning. I have been there for her through thick and thin related to many schooling issues we have discussed, plus issues with her parents and all those good things teens go through. We talked so much about what she would do when she was finishing up high school level work and I know she was not keen on college but eventually found a way to go to NYC as you know. I was tuned into every little step of it. While she is so much younger than myself and could be my daughter, she is quite mature and often has friendships with adults. I have been there for her as she got theater work back in Cinci and then in NYC. Yes, I know all about her dance where your daughter goes/went. One summer, S went to Circle in the Square Theater Program in NYC and my youngest daughter who is about to turn 15 takes voice here in Vermont with a voice faculty member from CITS who lives in VT on weekends. S ended up taking private voice lessons with him in NYC...ironically....so that was kinda neat. Last fall, when my daughter had an audition in NYC, S let us spend the night with her (her living situation kept changing but it was when she was subletting a studio). So, we met up in person in the city and my daughter has much in common with S even though they are four years apart. Then, last spring when S went on that tour, it came up to VT/NH, and I drove to see her in it and have lunch. I am happy for her that she has gotten another job and she is doing pretty well all things considering. She is talented but also very bright. I am amazed how her parents let her go off to the city before turning 18 on her own and even the summer before that when she went to CITS which did not involve supervised housing.

So, if you talk to S....tell her you connected with Susan in VT on a college forum of all things.
Susan

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 12:05 am: Edit

Soozievt,

It is a small world. I'm sure I have met your daughter's voice teacher. My daughter's voice teacher teaches in Pa and NYC and she brings her students into the city every year to work with different teachers and coaches. One year the workshop was with your daughter's voice teacher (B. R.?)

cbs57

By Wct (Wct) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 12:18 am: Edit

Theaterkid-
I just have to say that you must be very, very talented because you have been cast, (offered roles, ensemble) in several shows in a very short period of time. I am very impressed. I know a lot of people in this business and not very many have had the odds you have had in these last couple of months. You may be one in the small percentage of talented people who may be able to make a career in this business. Life is full of these types of decisions and you alone must pick your path. Many will give advice but no one knows you like you do. I am not one to tell you what route you should take. But I will wish you the very best in what ever you chose to do.

By Theatrekid18 (Theatrekid18) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 01:38 am: Edit

Thanks all for the comments. I have looked at both sides objectively and, MikeAshton does make a point. I mean, I am the type of person that is smitten with theatre...I know it will be difficult to go do the tour or Broadway and then leave and come back and do school, having already tasted that. I'm sure it will be hard. Especially because, what if I finish Hairspray, and then land something else? I don't like to count on things but I have a feeling I wouldn't return to school, I would keep putting it off.

On the same token, I HAVE to do this. It has been my DREAM all my life to be on Broadway, and to win a Tony, and I know the opportunity may present itself later but it has present itself now... How can I turn it down? The thought of being on Broadway has kept me from sleeping the last couple nights...I have until this Friday to decide.

I'm also only 18. I just graduated from high school. I still feel like a kid. Going to Pittsburgh this last summer was incredibly different for me, being away for a couple months on my own. I feel like after that I was home for a few weeks before I came up to LA for school, and now I am going to go to New York? Something tells me to slow down and be a kid. But come on, logic isn't my top priority right now.

ARGH...so torn! I want it so bad, and yet my instinct is telling me to stay, this is the same instinct that led me to turn down JCS and Saigon. Both those times I felt regret but also knew I made the right choice.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 11:43 am: Edit

Go theaterkid!!! I agree with WCT and that you must pick what is right for you. But I do agree that an amazing opportunity has presented itself to you and who knows what will come down the pike later....and I hear and feel your passion and your dreams and something came up that fulfills that. go for it ! I bet you will go back to school. This one job does not keep you from doing that. As WCT said....no matter what you decide, you obviously are very talented to have been cast three times at a young age already in high level theater productions...impressive....kudos to you. Keep reaching for your dreams and when they come, grab 'em. Best of luck.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 11:51 am: Edit

Sorry to post again to theaterkid but I forgot to say the one thing I got on to post to you....but that is the fact that you keep going to these auditions says something to me. How come you keep going? Apparently you want to go for this. I understand you do not expect to get cast (I know what ya mean about that) though frankly, your track record is amazing....but if you want to put this stuff on hold to attend school, then maybe do not go to auditions for jobs away from LA during the school year. My feeling is you have not chosen to refrain from going to these auditions which appears that if something BIG came along, you would drop life to go do it. I think I am seeing that in you.

While my daughter is younger than you, I keep questioning why she ever wants to go to NYC (has an agent there) for some big auditions cause IF (HUGE IF) she ever got the job, she would have to give up all the things she is involved with here that she loves. And she answers with, but Mom, it would be worth it....this is my DREAM. And so, I see your going to these auditions as a similar statement. Otherwise, you would put these auditions on hold while attending college.

I truly observe a deep passion in you for pursuing this dream of yours. How fortunate you are that such a thing can be realized at just 18.
Susan

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 11:55 am: Edit

Cbs 57...it is incredible how many little connections I keep making here with people when this is the huge web but indeed B.R. IS my daughter's voice teacher! This is her fourth year studying with him. I know you and I spoke in the past about your voice teacher working in both your home area in PA and in NYC and how ours lives in VT on the weekends but teaches in NYC midweek. I never realized your daughter had done a session with my daughter's voice teacher. We like him very much !

Susan

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 03:15 pm: Edit

This board is proving invaluable for me...my junior in high school daughter is in the midst of exploring schools and readying for the audition process to attend a school to study musical theater. I'm grateful for everyone's information. What I am curious about is the lack of a mention about a school we are seriously researching...Baldwin Wallace in northern Ohio. They have an excellent reputation for musical theater and seem to be graduating seniors that are getting jobs in national tours, etc. Any comments on Baldwin Wallace? THANKS!

By Doc021 (Doc021) on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 - 03:35 pm: Edit

A man who graduated from my high school attended Baldwin Wallace for Musical theater. He is very talented (I just recently saw him in "I Do, I Do!".) He came to speak to our class yesterday. He has had many performing opportunities. He was in the National Tour of Ragtime and he is going to play the part of Cord Elam in the upcoming national tour of Oklahoma! When he went into BW the only acting experience he had was from high school, and now he is landing roles in national tours. I also know another girl who currently attends BW and she is very talanted. I really dont know much about the program, but from the people I have seen from BW, it seems that it is a good school.

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 05:21 pm: Edit

OK, I have been planning to audition for Tisch musical theater, but I was talking to one of my professors today and she told me that if you apply and get into CAS you can transfer into Tisch (you still have to audition, but it's less competitive) or take Tisch classes. Yes? No? Maybe? Any thoughts?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 01:42 pm: Edit

With NYU, I'm not sure that is such a good option. CAS is still not a shoo-in...perhaps if you have stellar grades and NYU is a match for you. According to the young lady I know at Tisch, the transfer rates are very low. You are not just competing with other kids who want to transfer into Tisch from other NYU schools but from some other colleges as well. The transfer group, she tells me is quite impressive. These kids have generally "outgrown" their theatre program or feel they need to be in NYC at that point in their lives. You could do this ie go into CAS and take classes at any of the studios for a fee--Lee Strassburg is just down the street but I would check the transfer rates pretty carefully.
Now I've seen kids do this at CMU more. If you don't make it into the College of Fine Arts, if you applied to, say, the College of Humanities and Social Sciences, and were accepted there, you can take classes at HS&S, minor in Drama and re audition for MT or drama again. But they permit multi aps to their school. NYU does not.
In summary, you can do that--but the fact remains you may be able get in with the audition. So why not try? This is the sort of life you are trying to enter. Auditions and more auditions. For my son, he is only applying to schools with an audition because that is his special hook. If this is your passion, I'm not sure why you don't want to go for it and apply to ,say, CMU in the way I just described and use that as more of a "safety " option, though CMU is not a safety school either. For a safety measure, I would suggest a school with a strong drama/music program and a higher selectivity rate. But if you are pretty good at MT and it is what you want to do, I would not suggest taking a roundabout way to get in. I think you may be selling yourself short. Also though you can piecemeal things together, a lot of the Tisch studio experience is being together with kids who want to do the same thing. And you are cutting yourself out of this by going CAS.
I'm sure the other posters will have more direct reasons than I do. I'm not totally sold on the MT route but for some reason I feel that you are cheating yourself by not applying to Tisch if that is what you want.

By Gambit (Gambit) on Saturday, October 04, 2003 - 05:16 pm: Edit

Hey everyone,

I am a senior in high school currently preparing for my audtions. Im auditioning at CCM (im from ohio), UMich, CMU, and Boston Conservatory (also maybe syracuse). Although i know that Im trying out for all of these scools I was REALLY wondering if anyone here has insight about any of these programs (especially UMich or Boston Conservatory since as of now they are my first two..and i cant really decide which is above the other). I know that i will learn things on the actual visit DURING the audition, but as I learned through NYU it is not neccessarily an ACCURATE scene they paint (i mean "flowering up" is to be expected). If it helps I am a tall (6ft 4in)legit baritone. Leading man type/Villain type (dark hair, dark eyes, etc)(((if i helps I kinda look like Marc Kudisch)) Dancing is NOT my strong suit, but I would love to LEARN it. A big focus must be put on legit vocal technique (think Carousel instead of RENT. In other words im looking for the best balance of prestige (ie the showcase audtions in NYC or equity opportunities to earn my card.) but ,most importantly, what school is geared toward the INDIVIDUAL student reaching his full potential in whatever gifts he has and not toward producing chorus members (as i have learned my height is a HUGE disadvantage for chorus work usually), in other words, where I can get, of course, acting training (as im sure all the schools are equally great), BUT one that will be able to further the legit development of my voice. One more note, I love history and philosophy and would like a place that it might be easier to satisfy that vice of mine (although not if i sacrifices the best training). Any help would be SO appreciated, specificaly about Boston Conservatory or UMich. Thanks so much you guys, this site has helped me so much already and i hope that itll no help me get the info the books and websites DONT have. Thanks again! I will be reading

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 10:46 pm: Edit

I'm auditioning for 6 schools. of those 6, CCM, CMU, and TBC are all going to be in Chicago on Feb. 2,3, & 4. I realize that these are probably the top 3 for MT and require the most preperation which is why i'm skeptical. I don't plan on being accepted to CCM, I just think it would be beneficial to audition, so I'd audition there first.. haha. I live about 3 hours west of Chicago in Iowa. My question is, would It be WAAAAAAAY too much to audition for all three schools 3 days in a row? or would it maybe benefit me because i would be "on a roll" so to speak? There have been other posts saying to space them out and what not... i was just wondering if any one had different opinions. There is also a BIG expense issue when it comes to my auditioning so the money we'd save on travel would help a lot.... I've never done college auditions before so if you have, i'd appreciate some feedback. Thanks a lot!

Angie

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 11:19 pm: Edit

How do you find out that colleges are going to be doing auditions at the same days and place. I have seen on a number of web sites that such and such college does audition with X, Y, and Z. Do you just have to ask each school if they do collaborative auditions?

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Sunday, October 05, 2003 - 11:33 pm: Edit

I guess it just worked out that way between the three schools. I have no idea how it happened like that. Just by coinsidence I suppose. I didn't call the schools, it was just posted on each schools website as part of the audition schedule. Maybe it's all part of a convention type deal...? Who knows. I'll look into it.

Angie

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 08:20 am: Edit

Hi Angie,

I think that it is a very good idea to audition for the schools together. Three schools in 3 days is not alot if you don't have to travel. I would recommend you get to Chicago the day before you start auditioning so you are well rested.

The thing my daughter found the most tiring about the audition process was the travel to and from the places. She ended up having to travel 3 weekends in a row in February. By the time she made it to her last audition she was sick and exhausted from traveling each weekend, keeping up with school work & classes and rehearsing for the spring show.

So I would highly recommend the Chicago auditions!

By Tonya (Tonya) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 08:33 am: Edit

In case I can't get into a school that has a musical theater MAJOR program like Emerson or NYU (or any of the other top musical theater schools) does anyone know of liberal arts colleges that have good musical theater departments? Preferably in the northeast. I would appreciate any ideas. Thanks.

By Chrisru (Chrisru) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 11:41 am: Edit

Tonya,
There is a fairly complete list of schools with MT majors at the top of page 5 of this list. Some of those are liberal arts colleges that might interest you.

By Wct (Wct) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 03:29 pm: Edit

Angie-
I agree with Cbs57. Do the Chicago auditions. We did the same thing last year but in Los Angeles and San Francisco. Cbs57 is right about getting there a day early so that you can mentaly prepare. We did the same and it was very beneficial for my son to have that time to rest and get ready. You will have plenty of adrenalin to keep you pumped over the three days. It appears that the schools do this on purpose, (schedule audition days over the same period of time) so that students can accomplish their auditions within a short period of time in the same place. Because my son had 10 auditions we broke it up between Los Angeles and San Francisco within a week, (8 auditions. The other two were done on campus at different times).

I wish everyone good luck during their auditions this coming year. It is a very hectic but exciting time for all of you and your families. I hope that each and everyone of you find the program that best suits you so that you can be as happy as my son is at CMU. A good fit is the most important thing to your future success.

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 03:33 pm: Edit

Thanks so much Wct and Cbs57... that has really influenced my decision about auditioning and I decided to go for it. Hopefully I have what it takes.... keep your fingers crossed for me. Thanks again guys!!

Angie

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 06:55 pm: Edit

Gambit,

If you have specific questions about the Boston Conservatory, I would try e-mailing "Linton" who posted on this site back in April. I know their older daughter went to BC and their younger daughter is a freshman this year.

Good luck!!

By Theatredivasmom (Theatredivasmom) on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 09:21 pm: Edit

Hi Everyone,

I haven't finished reading all the posts yet, but I have to ask a question. My daughter is set for an audition at NYU in November in MT. She has not taken the SAT as we live in the Midwest and most schools do not require same. I thought I had checked and NYU did not require SAT if you had ACT. She scored a 31 and has a 3.8 grade point. Does anyone know if I am mistaken about this policy? I have spoken to so many schools in the last month my head is spinning. She does all of the legwork, I do the calling during the daytime. Additionally, she attended Northwestern's Cherub program for MT this summer and decided that this is the direction she wishes to head. We are from a rural area in west central Illinois and therefore no opportunities for auditioning professionally. Will this hurt her chances at a school such as NYU? I keep telling her NYU has a diverse population, but I know she is a little worried due to her lack of professional qualifications. She did extremely well at Northwestern, but NYU - Tisch is, and has been for quite a while, her first choice. We know it's a long shot, I'm just wondering if any college MT majors can give some tips regarding the application process, auditions, etcetera. She needs to get her application in this week. I have suggested she apply to ten schools as opposed to the five I would have suggested if she was majoring in anything but MT or drama. Some that she is considering are the following: Carnegie-Mellon, NC School of the Arts, University of Michigan, Illinois Weslyean (she feels very confident about this school that's why it is thrown in here, not to mention they already offered academic money). She also is considering Fordham, even thogh they don't have a MT program, she feels their drama program is outstanding.


Looking forward to any positive responses.

Thanks.

By Bexbaby046 (Bexbaby046) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 12:48 am: Edit

whats an equity card??

By Kekpo1 (Kekpo1) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 01:00 am: Edit

Does anyone know of any good monologues or plays for a teenage girl with a more comedic tone? We are looking for audition pieces. Thanks!

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 11:39 pm: Edit

Bexbaby046

Gan "equity card" means that you belong to the Actors' Equity Association which is the labor union representing over 45,000 American actors and stage managers working in the professional theatre.
For 90 years, Equity has negotiated minimum wages and working conditions, administered contracts, and enforced the provisions of our various agreements with theatrical employers across the country.

For more infor.:

http://www.actorsequity.org/home.html

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 04:15 pm: Edit

Time to Share,
We just got back from a whirl wind tour of Wichita State, Oklahoma City U and Southwest Missouri State 1800 miles - one school each day and I thought I'd share my thoughts while they are fresh. Wichita and SMS are very similar in that they are state universities that both started their progress four to five years ago. We saw rehearsals of
“Anything Goes (WSU) and (SMS) West Side Story”.
IMO both schools MT programs were started in response to the need for MT talent for area attractions. Both schools have lots of opportunity for professional experience at local venues for students. Wichita has a huge MT festival in the summer plus lot of MT theatres around and SMS has Brandson and a very large MT festival on campus every summer. As I understand it both allow students to work professionally while going to school. SMS just requires that they get 12 credits under their belt first. Both schools mentioned that through these opportunities their students had secured gainful employment both during and after their educations. And since top talent is brought in from all over they get a chance to work with very high level of performers as well as meet their agents. WSU just had their first graduating class last year I think and all were either on tour or working in regional theatre.
Sam had a chance to attend a dance class and choral class a WSU and then the students invited him to go to lunch with them! Both campuses were lovely. “Tony” from SMS walked right up and introduced himself and was very pleasant. The SMS kids were in the middle of rehearsal but really ready to answer questions. Both Michael Casey at SMS and Linda Starkey at WSU were extremely helpful in explaining their programs and accommodating considering their busy schedules. Ms. Starkey even took time to give Sam a voice lesson! WSU has some very attractive scholarships for MT students you could tell it is their mission to really make their program impressive. Both schools give you the real college feel to them.
OCU had a very different feel to it. Though they have a liberal arts program it felt much more conservatory. The program is more established and structured. They had a wonderful DVD they sent us that gives you a good idea about the school. While the other two schools were around 15 – 20K students, OCU have only 4K and as the sweet heart freshman MT student who was showing us around said, “And about 3000 of them are women.” We saw a modernized version of “Cosi Fan Tutte” with some very talented students. We were treated like VIPs from the moment we arrived and were introduced to everyone from the Deans to the Housemother. OCU I am sure is much more competitive and I know more expensive than the other programs.
Hope this helps others. I thought it was important to mention some other schools in the Midwest. While WSU and SMS are not what this site would call “top tier” schools I feel they both have a lot to offer.

By Bouldermom (Bouldermom) on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 01:52 pm: Edit

I've seen little to nothing here about Webster, Millikin and Shenandoah. Can those in the know enlighten me on their MT programs and their academics? Thx.

By Mkgsmom (Mkgsmom) on Tuesday, October 14, 2003 - 08:12 pm: Edit

Likewise, Marymount Manhattan. Does anyone have any info to share on that school as well? Thanks!

By Musictoad (Musictoad) on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 06:44 am: Edit

webster is a small school located in a suburb of St. Louis. it has an excellent reputation and has strong ties to the cultural organizations in St.Louis--repertory theater, opera theatre of st louis, etc. Campus consists of a large tudor style building, a new modern library, some additional modern buildings, a walled enclave of circa 1910 mansions, the loretto hilton center for performing arts. The campus is very close to a business area of webster. webster is park like in feeling. it is generally a safe area to send your kids. Marsha Mason and some other hollywood/broadway types have attended. Faculty is generally good. a very good value for the money spent in tuition imho. if we didn't live so close, it would be on the list for an app.

By Wstcoastheater (Wstcoastheater) on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 01:36 pm: Edit

theatredivasmom
In answer to your question regarding standardized testing for NYU, the way I read it is that either the ACT or the SAT can be used. I think she will be fine with the ACT. I also have a student who is will be auditioning for NYU in November. We are awaiting test results from recent October testing to get everything turned in on time. After a while, all of these different applications and requirements get to be one big blur. I know what you are going through!

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 08:27 pm: Edit

As long as we are on the subject of ACT and SAT - I have heard that certain types of students do better on one than the other and it seems like most of the schools will accept either one - most we have talked to have conversion charts. So which test is better for strong language non- math types?

By Theatredivasmom (Theatredivasmom) on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 02:13 am: Edit

wstcoastheater and Cluelessmc2,

Thanks for your reply on the ACT/SAT question for NYU. We're looking forward to our NYC trip in early November. My daughter has been working with our state university's musical theatre professor and is actually getting more comfortable with the audition process. She had to do a taped audition for Northwestern's NHSI musical theatre cherub summer program last summer, but that wasn't quite the same. She managed to get in the program, but doing a videotaped audition versus live is not comparable. I think the enormity of it all is beginning to sink in at this point and time.

I'm still waiting to hear from anyone out there about the number of colleges to apply to if MT is your major. We're heading off to Boston in December, assuming she gets those applications finished in time, and possibly DePaul and Northwestern in our own lovely state of Illinois. The hardest part of all of this is trying to fit the auditions and visits in around her theatre schedule at school. We had to beg to get them to let her go to audition the week before Tech Week for their fall play.

I am finishing off her NYU application and can't believe I am going to have to fill out nine or ten more of these. The applications are so long and detailed. Also, I can't wait to show up at the guidance counselor's office with all of these different packets the counselor has to fill out recommendations for and then make sure that she follows through and places all the appropriate material in each packet. She is at least grateful that I am separating each application, but I know is not looking forward to the amount of time she has to spend in preparing letters of recommendation and transcripts, ACT scores, et cetera. She planned on using the same one, but not all recommendation forms are the same. Additionally, because these schools are particular about everything being just right I am asking her to let me see the information before she mails it out, so I know that everything that is needed is included. This may sound like overkill, but we, unfortunately, had some major problems with last year's Senior class and some students not getting the proper information sent to the schools on time. Anybody have these applications down to a science; if so, can you share with the rest of us how to speed the process up a little bit.

Hopefully after a few more applications I'll be able to crank them out much quicker.

As far as the ACT and SAT, I keep hearing that kids tend to score higher on ACT; don't know if it's true or not. I just think my daughter felt since it was an option she'd elect for the one. In particular because her grade point and ACT score go hand in hand. We'll see if they prefer both once we hear about Early Decision.

By Theatredivasmom (Theatredivasmom) on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 02:13 am: Edit

wstcoastheater and Cluelessmc2,

Thanks for your reply on the ACT/SAT question for NYU. We're looking forward to our NYC trip in early November. My daughter has been working with our state university's musical theatre professor and is actually getting more comfortable with the audition process. She had to do a taped audition for Northwestern's NHSI musical theatre cherub summer program last summer, but that wasn't quite the same. She managed to get in the program, but doing a videotaped audition versus live is not comparable. I think the enormity of it all is beginning to sink in at this point and time.

I'm still waiting to hear from anyone out there about the number of colleges to apply to if MT is your major. We're heading off to Boston in December, assuming she gets those applications finished in time, and possibly DePaul and Northwestern in our own lovely state of Illinois. The hardest part of all of this is trying to fit the auditions and visits in around her theatre schedule at school. We had to beg to get them to let her go to audition the week before Tech Week for their fall play.

I am finishing off her NYU application and can't believe I am going to have to fill out nine or ten more of these. The applications are so long and detailed. Also, I can't wait to show up at the guidance counselor's office with all of these different packets the counselor has to fill out recommendations for and then make sure that she follows through and places all the appropriate material in each packet. She is at least grateful that I am separating each application, but I know is not looking forward to the amount of time she has to spend in preparing letters of recommendation and transcripts, ACT scores, et cetera. She planned on using the same one, but not all recommendation forms are the same. Additionally, because these schools are particular about everything being just right I am asking her to let me see the information before she mails it out, so I know that everything that is needed is included. This may sound like overkill, but we, unfortunately, had some major problems with last year's Senior class and some students not getting the proper information sent to the schools on time. Anybody have these applications down to a science; if so, can you share with the rest of us how to speed the process up a little bit.

Hopefully after a few more applications I'll be able to crank them out much quicker.

As far as the ACT and SAT, I keep hearing that kids tend to score higher on ACT; don't know if it's true or not. I just think my daughter felt since it was an option she'd elect for the one. In particular because her grade point and ACT score go hand in hand. We'll see if they prefer both once we hear about Early Decision.

By Wstcoastheater (Wstcoastheater) on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 03:47 am: Edit

You sound like you are pretty much in the same boat as we are, trying to get the NYU stuff out right now for early decision. Just waiting on the essay! My student is right in the middle of rehearsals for a production at school, so not a lot of time. I think that our high school is pretty much on top of all of the other stuff. We sent out the packets a few weeks ago. You're right about all of the work on just one app. I have been looking through the ones that we have, and some are harder than others. We are trying Boston as well, but attending a regional audition in February.Best of luck to your daughter next month! wstcoastheater

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 07:47 am: Edit

Theaterdivasmom

How nice to know we are all suffering the same process!! Just a few points in response to yiur latest post:

My daughter is applying to 11 schools - sounds crazy, I know, but if she manages to get her applications in on time in the order I've worked out for her, she can make all the auditions required and we've spread them out from November to February so she doesn't collapse from exhaustion. She's working sooooo hard it makes me want to cry when I see her stressed face at the end of the day - just like the rest of the kids I read about here, she has so many performance responsibilities coming up - she has the lead in the fully staged opera her school is mounting in late November and is dancing in the Nutcracker with a visiting Russian company the week after that. Not to mention preparing submissions for the NFAA competitions in Classical Voice and Musical Theatre that are due Nov 1. Aaaaaargh!!

With regard to the application process, having helped my son through this 2 years ago, I think submitting the apps on-line is a big help. I've volunteered to be the "application secretary," entering all the factual data onto the applications. She does all the the rest. It's the least I can do! Also, our highschool doesn't use the individual rec forms provided by each school and they say the schools are fine with that (and given their record of college placement - excellent - I have to take them at their word.)They have a "generic" that the kids fill out once and they copy that. Then they attach the the individual teacher recs to that form. You might ask your school to consider that option. Granted, the MT appl process is complicated by the fact that many schools request different types of recs than the "normal" ones, i.e., performing arts teachers, private teachers in addition to or in place of academic recs. But we just give the guidance office a list of schools she's applying to and which recs are to be sent to which school and they take it from there. But think of using the on-line option. The software they use is even much improved from 2 years ago, when I used it last. Several schools have even told us they prefer it.

Lastly, I didn't know that any schools offer Early Decision to MT applicants. Emerson is the only school my daughter is applying to that even offers Early Action. This is obviously due to the audition process. So make sure that the school you are referring to really is offering Early Decision for both the school admission and the MT program admission before placing all your eggs in one basket and waiting to hear from them before making decisions about applying to other schools.

Good luck! I know we'll all survive this. And if you are going to the November 2 audition at NYU Steinhardt, maybe we'll see you there.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 11:28 am: Edit

Theatermom,

I don't know if any MT schools offer early decision, however, some programs do have rolling admission. The University of Michigan and Point Park, for example, let students know whether or not they have been accepted into their program approximately 3 weeks after the audition. Point Park's first audition took place on September 12. Students who auditioned on that date already have their results. Michigan's first MT audition is on November 14. My daughter just found out yesterday that she has been approved to audition at Michigan and hopefully will get her requested November date. She plans to audition at Point Park on December 5. She will know before Christmas whether or not she has been accepted by either of these schools.

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 02:04 am: Edit

I feel for all of you going through this process. Your discussions bring back memories of last year when I was going through this with my son. Hang in there!!!
I too did the busy work part of the applications, (my son auditioned for 10 schools). It is the only way. Your kids are just too busy with everything else including the supplemental questions and essays to do it any other way. I don't know if you are doing this but I got a large plastic file box and put a file folder for every school, scholarship info, copies of letters of recommendations, (and the requests for them), SAT and ACT info, transcripts, etc., etc. It made all the difference in the world having everything at our fingertips next to the computer. Have the FAFSA Federal School Codes handy too because you will use them over and over again. I agree that doing as many apps on line as you can will save you a lot of grief. If I can make a suggestion.... I told my son that he needed to have his apps done prior to the first day of winter break. That way he could enjoy the holiday season knowing that he was finished except for his auditions. It really is a good thing if your kids can pull it off.

I am looking forward to hearing where your kids will be going next Fall. I can only hope that your kids will be as happy next school year as my son is right now. There is nothing like a perfect fit!

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 08:33 am: Edit

Wct,

How tall is your son? The reason I ask is that at the schools we have gone to they all remarked on my son's height (6'1"+)and age (just turned 16)since he has the ability to still grow. One of them even commented that they get more then their share of 5'8 & 9" tenors & baritones, but not many 6'who look like him. From your experience, "Does size make a difference?" (LOL) What I mean to say will this give him any advantage in your opinion?
Thanks, Jenifer

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 02:30 pm: Edit

I'm glad to find out that I'm not the only parent who is filling out applications for her child. The only thing my daughter is being asked to do on her applications is write the essays. I'm doing the rest. Some of the books that I've perused at the library and at Barnes and Noble have indicated that having parents do the applications is a big no-no. I feel that my daughter has enough to do with preparing her auditions, preparing Arts Awards entries, rehearsals, lessons, performances, etc. I wanted to free up as much of her time as I could. After my reading, however, I did experience a guilt pang or two. I won't feel guilty any more!

I have been amazed at how time consuming the application process has been. It seems that every school wants the resume formatted differently. I naively thought that we could get all of the applications done before school started this fall. It was going to be our summer project. My teaching load is smaller during the summer and, of course, my daughter wasn't going to school. I soon discovered that we couldn't do any of the applications during the summer. No school that my daughter is interested had their applications available during the summer. I did spend some time doing a very detailed resume for her based on information the University of Michigan asked for on their 2003 application. I also did her repertoire list. E.wanted to do Michigan's 1st audition on Nov.14.She was toldduring her visit last April that she needed to get her application in early and that they would accept applications starting September 1. I checked their website in June and found out that the on-line application was to be available Aug. 1. When I checked on Aug. 1, the website said the application would not be available until Aug. 18. On the 18th, the site said it wouldn't be available until the 24th. Of course, when I checked on the 24th it still wasn't available. On the 27th a PDF application became availabl to download. The electronic application was still unavailable. I downloaded the PDF file and started to work on it. I'm lucky that I downloaded it on the 27th because it had disappeared when I checked the site the next day. The PDF form was MIA for the next 3 days. The School of Music had a September 15 deadline for applications if students wanted to audition in November. I called the university Office of Admissions sometime in late August to see if I could get a paper copy of the application mailed to me. I was told it would be 6 to 7 weeks before a paper copy could be in my hands. When I asked about the School of Music deadline I was told that they would probably extend it. When I called the School of Music Office of Admissions I was told there would be no extension. I started to work on the PDF form on August 27. My daughter finished her essays on September 7 and we mailed everything on the 8th. Her high school also made it quite difficult getting her transcript and her counselor recommendation done, but that's another long story. Naturally, a day or two before I mailed E.'s application,the U.M. School of Music website announced that they had extended the application deadline to Oct. 1. To say the least I was a bit frustrated with the application process. E. did get an e-mail from U.M. on Wednesday saying that she had been approved to audition and asking her to confirm by e-mail her choice of audition date. We are assuming she'll be auditioning on Nov. 14. I have completed the applications for another 5 schools and am now waiting for E. to finish her essays. So far none of the other schools have been as difficult as Michigan. A couple were even pretty easy. Good luck to all with the application and audition process this year!

(Sorry about the misspellings, missing words, spaces, etc. The website is acting very funky today.)

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 05:56 pm: Edit

On the subject of college applications. Though my son is just a junior we have recieved a couple of them when we asked for information. When recommendations are required my son would like to only use his voice teacher or directors from the local shows. He knows his choir teacher looks down on musical theatre as she has stated as much and he feels like the high school director doesn't like that he is busy doing shows outside the HS. Or can he use other non-music teachers - most of his HS teachers love him. If it is best to use his HS teachers he going to have to find out what will please them soon.

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 06:47 pm: Edit

Cluelessmc2,

In general (and I stress only in general), recommendations from theater and vocal people other than HS teachers will tend to carry more weight. Not that there is any sort of inherent problem with public-school based programs, but theatrical involvement where the kid is there by audition and the audiences have to both choose to attend and pay for their seats simply has increased credibilty. So given a choice I'd suggest to stack the recommendations with people from these areas. Certainly, if there is any hint that someone may, for whatever reason, give less than a glowing recommendation avoid them like the plague. Remember, the competition for selection to MT programs is fierce and, assuming there's a choice, there's no reason to include potentially negative information.

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 07:23 pm: Edit

Cluelessmc2,

I can totally relate to your son's high school teachers being upset with him doing theater. I don't think your son needs to use the high school arts teachers for his recommendations, but most schools do require one academic teacher recommendation. My daughter used her private/community theater, dance and voice teachers for her recommendations but also got an academic teacher recommendation from her history teacher and her guidance counselor.

By Mtheatremom (Mtheatremom) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Dancermom, don't feel guilty about helping with the applications. There is no way these kids have any free time to do the secretarial work that is involved and thats all it is really. My child's h.s. college guidance counselor said parents are allowed to help with anything that does not require "thinking", ie essays and thought provoking questions. No MT child has the time to do so many of these forms, but, schools still look down on too many different handwritings. I have thrown away and redone a few applications when I realized that my husband had qucikly filled in one "facts only" section, I did another and my daughter wrote answers to questions. Now I fill in the factual things, we type and paste right into the box for the answers (with double stick tape) her short question answers and then attach her typed essays that are a page or more.
Also, I called Michigan today and they said that if you got the email and letter saying that your daughter was approved for the audition and then you emailed back with your daughter's UM ID and password - then you are set with the date you emailed back with. Hope that reassures you. We will be in Michigan the 14th of November as well. Take care all of you. Its nice to have you all to communicate with. Nobody at my daughter's school(private college-prep) can relate to our life right now - its too difficult to even try to clue them in. -MTheatremom

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 09:01 pm: Edit

Jennifer(cluelessmc2),
In answer to your question regarding my son's height, he is 5'7". We just returned from family weekend at CMU and I would say the guys are of different heights. I would imagine any program would want a variety. The girls also vary in height. Since these schools have to create an ensemble of people who will perform together for four years I would think they take "type" into account.

In case anyone is interested...we saw Measure for Measure while we were at CMU last weekend and I was very impressed. The thing that still sticks out in my mind is the fact that this was a large cast and many of the actors in this Shakspeare production were MT majors, not acting majors. I was pleased to see that CMU takes very seriously MT majors being exceptional actors not just singers/dancers. In today's professional MT market it is very important that there are good actors on stage. Being a great singer/dancer isn't enough anymore.

We also spent time with many of the CFA Drama staff in a question and answer forum. It was GREAT!!! I was pleased to see that CMU is very forward thinking. They really take the time to think about where they want their students to be upon graduation so they are ready to enter the professional world. They know the business changes all the time, technology changes so fast, so they look at their curriculum and update and make changes where it is needed to keep up with the outside world. I really liked that outlook.

By Shauna (Shauna) on Saturday, October 18, 2003 - 12:53 pm: Edit

Dear Cluelessmc2--

I scored significantly higher on the ACT than on the SAT, and I'm definitely more of a language person. I tell EVERYBODY who asks: take the ACT! It's more subject-based than the SAT and is much more similar to what your child is exposed to in school on a regular basis.

Shauna

By Wct (Wct) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 03:39 pm: Edit

Jennifer (cluelessmc2)-
Out of respect for my son his accurate height is 5'8". I was thinking of my husband's height and my son would correct me if he saw my post!

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Monday, October 20, 2003 - 06:00 pm: Edit

Wct,

My dad is 5'7" - and he is the biggest man I have ever met!
Jenifer

By Ptower (Ptower) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 04:49 pm: Edit

My daughter, a 16 year old Junior, is looking at an MT program that also includes the behind the scenes courses needed to operate a theater. Her thinking is that by being skilled in areas other than performance, she will be able to work in the industry that she loves while looking for that big break. She visited CMU, Penn State and Pitt this summer and loved CMU, but not their admission rate for their MT program.
She is not averse to looking at lesser known colleges or universities that provide a well rounded MT education, as mentioned above.
Any suggestions, ideas?
She has had voice training since age 9, is a very good actor and her academics are very good.
The problem is that I have been out of work for over a year and tuition is going to be a major problem, hence my request for some less expensive alternatives. TIA, I appreciate it.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 06:53 pm: Edit

Ptower,

It sounds like you live in Pennsylvania (just a guess......) so do look carefully at Penn State. Besides being a state school (for my Philadelphia senior daughter as well), they have more financial aid for MT's than anywhere else we've heard of yet. We visited there last week and I was very impressed with the program and liked the fact that even though the training is seriously conservatory in nature, they require their MT's to take about a third of their courses in other liberal arts areas, many of which still support the discipline, e.g., we were told of a physical science class that is entitled "The Anatomy of the Voice," that explains how and why the voice works. Cool, we thought. Also the President of the University LOVES the MT program and provides many opportunities for the students to perform for donors, alumni etc., for which he pays the Department and that money funds lots of extracurricular things for them, like a trip to NY each year to take Master Classes and see shows. They also have a targeted endowment called "The Next Steps" that helps fund the students transition into the industry by underwriting costs of preparing for and going to auditions in the senior year, among other things.
The school also pays the entire bill for the Senior Showcase.
Check it out. Especially for we in-staters it's a lot of bang for your buck and the reputation of the program is strong and rising.

Good luck!

By Ptower (Ptower) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 09:33 pm: Edit

Thank you for the advice.
I agree that Penn State is by far the best bang for the buck, but they admitted 13 students out of 768 applicants last year.
I have not seen any mention of Montclair College in NJ, the alma mater of my daughter's cabaret instructor, or Cedar Crest College, apparently a very high value school in Allentown, PA.

By Cbs57 (Cbs57) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 10:26 pm: Edit

Ptower,

Cedar Crest College is an all women's school and does not have a musical theater major, only a BA in theatre.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Wednesday, October 22, 2003 - 11:55 pm: Edit

Ptower

Where did you get the total number of students who applied to PSU MT last year? That seems very high to me given my discussion with the MT chair last week. Maybe a large number were "disqualified" by academics. They have to clear PSU University Park admissions AND be accepted by the MT department. It is true that they only accept about 20 kids, looking for a class of 10 - 12. Their sophomore class is their largest, @ 15 I think I remember. Their graduating class either this year or last was only 7.

BUT - nothing ventured, nothing gained. And given that money is a real issue, make sure you look into getting fee waivers for applications. That way you don't have to limit her opportunites to at least try to get into programs that appear to meet your needs. Again, good luck!

By Alanz (Alanz) on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 08:38 am: Edit

I rather liked Montclair... they had a MT major planned, but when we were there I think it was a minor. Perhaps the major will be ready when your child is ready.

I especially liked the director of the theater program and the musical director. They both talk to the students with respect. We got to sit in on some classes and special events. The main stage production we saw two years ago was first rate.

Montclair offered our son a full scholarship with room and board, because of his academic grades and testing. This was both comforting and frustrating. Comforting because it was a great feeling to know that Scott had a cost free education waiting for him if he wanted it. Frustrating because any other choice had to be weighed against free.

I have to tell you that the thought of coming out of 4 years of college (as an actor, no less!) with no debt weighs heavily against the other schools. He wound up getting a fine scholarship from Emerson (in their Honors program), but there is still plenty of debt to cover.

Montclair wasn't quite right for our son at this point, but we know other talented students there that are doing very well. I would not have been upset at all if Scott decided on Montclair, but I'm glad he chose Emerson... it fits him.

By Wct (Wct) on Thursday, October 23, 2003 - 03:52 pm: Edit

Alanz made a very good point about college and cost and having a happy student. A happy college student is PRICELESS. I have been through both and believe me having a sick/stressed out child is not worth it. Our older son made the wrong choice as a freshman and although he made it through his first year it was ever so much better to see him healthy and happy after he transfered to a college that was a better fit. No one likes the idea of carrying a lot of debt but to me the 4 college years are just too important to be miserable. Life is just too short!

By Ptower (Ptower) on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 11:03 pm: Edit

Re: Cedar Crest
We attended an expo at the City Line Ave. Hilton in Philadelphia last Sunday and we specifically asked if they had a musical theater major, and they stated they did.
Re: Penn State
That was the number my daughter was told in August. I agree it seems very high, but I believe your explanation is the correct one. Thank you for the feedback.

By Lookingmt (Lookingmt) on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 01:18 am: Edit

I must agree with the poster above about the excellent program at Oklahoma City University. After making several trips to a few schools, we were by far the most impressed with the quality and cost of OCU among other (including CCM and NYU).

We were impressed with the amount of acting a MT student must take over fours years (three years worth) which is headed by a Yale graduate. The amount of theory and aural skills (5 days a week) and piano (twice a week) plus the requirements of three weekly voice lessons made a huge impression on my family.

We were told to sign up early for audition slots (first one is Nov 13 & 14th, I believe) and, of course, by the time we wanted to sign up, it was full! They offer immediate admission decisions. Two weeks after your audition, you're informed if you are accepted or not. No wait listing (which I think is ridiculous). And for MT, you must audition with both a MT song and a classical/art song as they teach very legit singing. Both MT and the opera program seem to get along well and many MT students apparently cross over doing both styles (like the recent "Cosi" which featured many MT students).

The bottom line is that their students work. We were told by the Dean that 10 days after graduating, two of their students landed the national "Oklahoma" tour and one in the "Sussical" tour. And Kristen Chenoweth is in a new Broadway show!

The cost was unbelieveable for a private school (18,000 a year) and we were told over 80% of the music school students receive some sort of aid (scholarship or financial).

We were treated as very special people upon our vist (unlike NYU where we were kept waiting for 30 minutes because the counselor "forgot all about us"). Their web site gives you all the info that we found very helpful (www.youatocu.com) and you can sign up for an audition slot.

We also looked at UCLA this summer (a CA road trip!) which was impressive. I'm suprised that we don't hear much about this school or it's MT program. We felt it had a very stong acting base. We heard a few stunning students sing some selections. It is a huge campus and you can easily get lost or overlooked as the program seems to be rather large. However the cost is quite more expensive than most.

Good luck on those applications.

By Mtkid (Mtkid) on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 12:34 pm: Edit

Hi,
I'll be a senior next fall and while I have been considering majoring in musical theatre, I have decided to major in just acting. Although I would love to train for MT, I simply have not had the required training, mostly in dance and voice, in order to devote myself fully to this for four years. I would feel behind since there are so many kids who have had years of voice and various dance classes. Although I have not formally trained in acting, I have had the most experience in this field. Could someone please suggest some schools that offer a good acting program, but that perhaps offer a concentration in musical theatre or classes of this sort. I know that Wagner College is an acting program that stresses musical theatre- I am looking for a program along these lines, but it is not necessary for it to have a concentration persay, but as long as I can take classes and workshops in musical theatre. Thank you very much.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 01:07 pm: Edit

Lookingmt,

I just checked out Oklahoma City's website after reading your post about 3 years of acting being required for MT majors. According to the curriculum listed on the website for the BM in MT, students take two semesters of Acting: Opera/Musical Theatre in their junior year. They are 3 hour courses. The only other courses I saw on the curriculum guide that even remotely resembled an acting course were a 3 hour MT lit. seminar taken during the senior year and a 1 hour MT workshop also taken the senior year. I spoke to the mother of an Oklahoma City U. MT major last spring. Her son graduated from my daughter's performing arts high school. She said that her son's only complaint about OCU's program was that only one year of acting was available. She also told me that OCU had realized that their program was very weak in acting and that they were attempting to rectify the situation by adding another year of acting for the incoming 2004 freshman class. I find it curious that if they have indeed added 2 more years of actor training that it is not mentioned on their website. Do you have a current curriculum guide from OCU? I would be very interested in seeing it. My family and I eliminated OCU from consideration because of the weakness in acting. My daughter is very serious about her drama and stage combat training. I had initially liked OCU because of its strong vocal training and its strength in American dance forms. I'd certainly give the school a 2nd look if they have beefed up their drama training.

By Wct (Wct) on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 05:29 pm: Edit

I totally agree with the previous post. I would be VERY WARY of any MT program that does not take acting seriously. You should have acting classes all four years of your training.

By Lookingmt (Lookingmt) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 12:53 am: Edit

We were told that the acting program at Oklahoma City University had changed this year. The ciriculum that is on the web site I don't think is correct. All freshman this year are under new guidelines which include more acting (must be two years since their acting classes go up to acting IV)and piano classes.

We attended their Preview Day today and we're still amazed by this place. I would really suggest you call them and find out for sure they don't offer what you are looking for. As I said above, we've looked at many places and so far OCU is the closest competent conservatory-like training you can find and still receive a bachelor's degree.

By Mtdad (Mtdad) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 06:56 pm: Edit

It's heartening to see OCU beefing up the acting side of things. When mention of OCU first entered this thread it was noted that their web page indicated a distinct lack of acting in their MT program. Although MT is generally thought to revolve around song and dance, it is in fact just another facet of theatre . . . and acting is the most fundamental skill necessary for all theatre. There are many very good MT performers who are not the most vocally gifted or dance endowed people, but what they all share are excellent acting skills. Maybe not the same set of skills used on the legit stage, but still the ability to make the character come alive for the audience. So when looking for MT training, do not overlook the need to focus on the actor's craft.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 10:13 pm: Edit

I just received an e-mail from Mark Parker, dean of Oklahoma City's School of Music. He says that the acting requirement has been increased from 2 to 6 semesters. The required courses are:
OMT 1182 Introduction to Acting
OMT 1282 Audition Techniques, Formal Script Analysis, Stage Etiquette
OMT 2182 Improvisation
OMT 2282 Advanced Acting, Stanislavsky/Strasberg Theories
OMT 3182 Period Movement
OMT 3282 Physical Skills, Stage Combat

By Rayk (Rayk) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 10:51 pm: Edit

wow alot of people write in here.
im just checking to see if i can post something up...when i try to make a new convo, it tells me i have wrong password.

By Lookingmt (Lookingmt) on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 02:29 am: Edit

Thanks so much for the confirmation about OCU. Wow..I didn't realize it was three years of acting! That's even better than I thought. We met one of the teachers (from Yale) and we're very impressed with his knowledge and ideas.

Also..is anyone else getting a run around from CCM and audition days/times? We've emailed and written letters regarding setting a date for auditions (since last August) and they keep saying they can't confirm one just yet. What!! Give me a break! After this situation and what I've read here, I think we're thru with CMM!

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Lookingmt,
Are you unable to find out when CCM is holding auditions or are you unable to get them to confirm your audition date? CCM is on a quarter system. Fall quarter did not start until around September 24 this year. During August I repeatedly checked the University of Cincinnati's website for application/audition info. They were still dealing with Fall 2003 admissions at that time (including walk-in admissions). When the online application finally appeared, I again checked the CCM site for audition dates. The website was still listing 2003 dates. A couple of days later I called the CCM office of admissions and was told that the MT audition dates in Cincinnati were Jan. 17, Feb. 14, and Mar. 13. The next time I visited their website I noticed that it was still listing 2003 audition dates. Then I realized that Jan. 17, Feb. 14, and Mar. 13 were all on that 2003 list. I checked the calendar and discovered that those dates are all Saturdays, which is when CCM always holds their auditions. (I am certain of this fact. My daughter has been taking classes through their prep department for more than 8 years. Prep Classes always have to shift around on audition Satudays.) For whatever reason, the website says 2003 when it should say 2004. (I haven't looked at the site in a while - maybe they've fixed it.) My daughter has not completed her application for CCM, so we have naturally not received any confirmation of audition dates. However, since the first audition is not until January, I would not be too concerned that they have not yet confirmed your date. We didn't get confirmation of my daughter's Michigan audition date until one month before the audition. I do understand your frustration. (Read my post about applying to the University of Michigan.) Smaller schools do seem to more efficient in handling applications and scheduling auditions. I scheduled my daughter's December Point Park audition before we had mailed her paperwork. The audition date was scheduled on the phone - no 2nd choice date necessary.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 03:55 pm: Edit

Lookingmt,
If you are looking for schools that offer a strong conservatory approach to MT as well as a general education, do not overlook Penn State. Previous posts have given informed recommendations but as a relatively new program
( 10 years ) it is not as well known as many other schools on the "elite" list. You also will be treated respectfully when making contact with this department, and one visit to the school will convince you of its merits.

By Lookingmt (Lookingmt) on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Thanks monkey. We have looked at the Penn State program about a year ago (while visiting relatives in Lancaster). Unfortunately, we were very unimpressed with the music side of this program. I think we are looking for a much more structured music program like a conservatory. They were unable to describe their vocal teaching style (we're looking for a legit, classical style) and that was a major minus. Their acting program looked very good though. We were looking to find a very intergrated program and Pennn State did not strike us as such.

By Mauimom (Mauimom) on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 05:56 pm: Edit

To the moms filling out their child's application(s)--

Have you checked to see if any of your kid's schools take the Common App? My daughter's applying to 10 schools, and 7 of them take the Common App. Admittedly most have a "supplement" that's required. This ranges from a "big nothing" (just some more personal data) to additional essays. To name a few: Fordham, Ithaca, Tulane, Drew, NYU, Boston University. For some schools you still have to schedule auditions, but the Common App. really cuts down on keyboarding that same boring "applicant info" again and again.

Go to the Common App's site: http://app.commonapp.org and check to see if the particular school uses it and what supplements are required.

Good luck.

By Monkey (Monkey) on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 08:08 pm: Edit

Lookngmt,
I believe the vocal instruction at Penn State is focused in the musical theatre style. I know their MT voice teacher is considered one of the best in the country, also has a studio in NY and is sought after nationally to do workshops. The MT students also work more informally with the vocal performance teachers in the Music department, but classical training is not emphasized. I think it helped that my daughter had several years of classical voice instruction before working on belting. Good luck on finding that perfect fit for your child. It is different for every young performer and worth the effort in seeking it out.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Saturday, November 01, 2003 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Anybody else auditioning at NYU Steinhardt tomorrow? This will be my daughter's first college audition (besides the CMU mock auditions this summer). Good luck if you are! And think happy thoughts for her! All good karma accepted, appreciated and will be reciprocated.............

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 12:30 am: Edit

Theatermom, I am sending "break a leg" vibes to your daughter and hope her audition is wonderful and that she is admitted. My daughter who plans to go for musical theater is younger than yours (though I have a senior as well but she is not going to major in this area in college) so I am all ears on your experience as that will be us before we know it. Would love to hear what she is going to sing. I bet your daughter is very prepared having gotten all this ready in her summer program. Let us know how it all went and I am sending happy thoughts your way.....
Susan

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 06:25 am: Edit

Susan

Thanks so much! You can't inmagine how much your little message of support buoyed my spirits this morning! We're running out the door (2 hour drive to NYC from Phila.) but I'll report back tonight or tomorrow.

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 10:42 am: Edit

Now that we are getting into the audition season it would be wonderfully helpful if those who are auditioning would share their experiences at some of the schools. Theatermom - good thought are being sent your daughters way!
Jenifer

By Shauna (Shauna) on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 04:42 pm: Edit

Any thoughts on University of Tulsa's program? Just asking because I might be able to get an extremely helpful scholarship there, and I know they do have a musical theatre major. However, I haven't researched the program at all. Any advice?

Shauna

P.S.: Cluelessmc2, I totally agree. I'm not auditioning anywhere until February, but all of a sudden that does seem very soon! Also helpful (at least to me, and I'm sure others could use it as well) would be scholarship opportunities. The one I mentioned was as a result of the Nat'l Merit program.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 08:55 pm: Edit

Hi Everybody!

Okay! One down, 8 or 9 to go.......

NYU today was great! We actually just got back, my daughter quickly changed clothes and drove off to Nutcracker rehearsal and I'm hoping to dissipate what's left of my nervous energy by reporting to you all. Generic stuff first.

Everybody at Steinhardt could not have been nicer. They went out of their way to make the kids feel comfortable and relaxed. The morning info session was overlong in a FREEZING COLD theater and while the Chair of the Department said everything I hoped to hear (especially about the quality and focus of the vocal training - protect the voice above all - everybody has to sing legit and we teach them how to belt correctly - no blown out voices at 26), he went on way too long. My favorite moment was when he said that theirs was a department where the opera faculty and the MT faculty actually LIKE each other. As soon as it wasn't rude (during Q & A time) we ducked out and in true NYC fashion, there was a street fair right outside the building and we bought wonderful chenille scarves to protect us the rest of the day - $10 each: sometimes I really do love NY......

They made practice rooms with pianos available for warming up and they had food, water, coffee etc., available everywhere! The whole process was very well organized and for the most part, kids were taken on time for their auditions. My daughter did her voice/acting audition first, then the group dance audition. Some kids did their voice stuff after dancing. By the way, even though it's an open audition, (they'll do this again on Nov 16) they will schedule a specific audition time during the day if you request it.

My daughter's voice audition and monologue went very well. She's usually very hard on herself and even she felt really good about how she'd done and the reaction she got from the auditioners. For those of you who asked, as requested by NYU she prepared three songs (they could be any combination of MT or classical). They let you pick the first one and then they choose one from the other two. She did "Not a Day Goes By" from Merrily We Roll Along and then they asked for "Vanilla Ice Cream" from She Loves Me. They stopped everyone during one of their songs and gave some direction or other and then asked them to sing more or again to see how they followed the instruction. There was then a short music evaluation: sight singing, music theory, ear training, and then the one monologue you were to prepare. She said the auditioners - there were 3 of them - were very friendly and welcoming and she loved the acoustics in the room. She came out with a big smile and from what I could hear in the hallway (lots of parents and kids were in the hall outside the audition room) she had reason to smile.

The dance audition took about an hour. They were taught a short ballet combination, a short tap combination (without tap shoes) and a slightly longer jazz combination. They learned it all together and then performed it in small groups. Only the instructor judged their performance. It seemed quite low-key and the instructor said that dance was the least stressed part of the program.

The last part of the day was spent watching a performance of William Finn's "New Brain." For any of you who know his work ("March of the Falsetto's" and "Falsettoland" are the best known) you know it is not easy stuff vocally or theatrically. I have to say that I was more than a little impressed. The actors were 2 masters degree students, several seniors, a few juniors and even a sophomore and they were quite frankly amazing. There wasn't a weak voice among them and every single one of them sang with energy, emotion, control and excellent vocal technique. There is almost no spoken dialogue so all the acting was through singing - it's sort of a contemporary MT operetta, if you will. Several of the kids already have Broadway and/or National Tour experience and/or are equity members. My daughter left feeling like she'd be very happy to be accepted and to go there. I think Michigan is still her first choice because she'd still like to have a real college experience before she jumps into the real world, but the discussion of all the connections Steinhardt has in the NY theater community and the prospect of living in NYC do have their allure.

As her mother, I say please just let her get in SOMEWHERE she'll be happy with. I have a feeling that I'm not alone in this - right Mom's and Dad's?

If any one has any more specific questions, feel free to email me (just click on the "Theatermom" at the top of the post for my address.)

Thanks everyone for all of your good karma and "break-a-leg's." I think they worked! And best of luck to all your kids as well. Keep us all posted.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 12:32 am: Edit

Theatermom....sounds like your daughter did great! To me, the most you can ask for in an audition is to come away feeling it was very positive and your daughter did. Of course, getting in would be the icing on the cake but at least she knows she did her best. I feel so much like you do when it comes to college admissions....please let my daughter get in SOME place she will be happy to get into (I have a senior going through this whole thing now too, just not for musical theater). As mentioned previously, I do have a second daughter who will be going to college for musical theater and has had her heart set on NYU Tisch for many years now even though she is just 15 right now. She has about a dozen friends who go there whom she has spent her summers with. Actually she has a friend studying musical theater this year as a freshman at U. of Michigan where your daughter is interested as well.

By the way, my daughter is in LOVE with Merrily we Roll Along. She has not been in it but her theater camp has done that show. My daughter came close to producing Merrily We Roll Along on her own at school this fall but instead has created and is directing/choreographing a cabaret revue style show of contemporary Broadway (this is besides the regular school musical). Anyway, a song from The New Brain is in it....called Heart and Music and she keeps listening to that CD alot lately, so your post catches my eye on that too.

It is very interesting to hear what the auditions are like. My daughter has done so many auditions in her life so is not nervous doing them. Of course none have been to get into college! Like your daughter, she is into all three areas....voice, dance, and acting. She is in tenth grade though is young for her grade. She is really pushing us to graduate early next year which I am not into. She wants to apply for musical theater next fall. I am so immersed with my senior in all that now that I cannot begin to fathom doing this back to back. So, I am reading your posts with a keen eye as to what lies ahead. Most of the kids my daughter knows at NYU are at Tisch (my daughter really wants Cap21) but she knows one girl who is enrolled at Steinhardt but has had to defer her admission this fall as she got cast on a national tour. I suppose at some point we should look into both these programs. I have not begun to as it is already so heavy duty just dealing with my current senior's college process! She too loves musical theater and has done a bunch of it but is not pursuing that field as a college major but might continue to participate as an EC pursuit. My younger one has wanted to go into musical theater since she was in preschool. I will share with her regarding your daughter's experience auditioning.

I think your daughter sounds like she has the right stuff and it is just a matter of which schools she will get into....she will get in somewhere. I have a daughter who is applying to very selective schools too and I know she is qualified but just like the musical theater thing, it is a bit of a crapshoot as to whether she will get into them cause of the odds. But she will get in somewhere. I hope she ends up happy, that is exactly how I feel as well. Fingers crossed for both our girls.
Susan

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 07:56 pm: Edit

Susan,

Thanks again for your kind thoughts.

When the smoke clears from your current senior's college application process, do look very carefully at Steinhardt as opposed to Tisch. I've actually talked to a few people about this but what I learned this past weekend really made me believe that Tisch would not be a great choice for my daughter while Steinhardt would. Here is what I found out. Tisch farms out its theatre and MT programs to studios around the city and therefore has no control over the faculty that teach their kids. The studios are subcontractors to NYU but control their own programs. Second, with regard to MT, the CAP 21 program, the only MT studio at Tisch, is not music based - their kids have no access to vocal training from NYU music faculty. I didn't realize this, but in 1966 Steinhardt merged with the New York College of Music, the oldest conservatory of music in NY, and since then Steinhardt has served as the conservatory of music for NYU. The program is totally integrated with NYU. They also share faculty with Juilliard and Manhattan School of Music. I reiterate how impressed I was at the vocal quality of the kids we saw in New Brain - not a pusher, screamer, etc among them. AND they were very strong actors as well. What I've heard people say is that Tisch is for actors who can dance and want to sing too while Steinhardt is for singers who can act and dance. I've also been told but not verified that once you audition for Tisch, you have no choice about the studio you are placed in. You then have to stay in that studio for three of your four years. Transfers are permitted in year four.

I also need to ask more questions about the dance program however. The fact that they had a senior in the program run AND judge the dance audition tells me it's not very high on their list of priorites. The dance instructor actually told my daughter that when she asked. She said she supplements her dance training with classes around the city, e.g., Broadway Dance Centre and the like.

My daughter is also not 100% certain she wants to be in NY yet. She was enthralled at all the connections, networking and performance opportunities the department chair spoke of, but would also like to have some semblance of a real college experience. I just hope she has choices to make!

Hope this helps.

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 08:33 pm: Edit

Theatermom, thanks for that explanation. Yes, someone once posted on this thread a long while ago about some differences between Steinhardt and Tisch. I am not yet up to investigating schools with my younger one cause of the heavy load of all this with my current senior. But I surely will research that fully and will remember your points. My daughter has wanted Tisch for a number of years, mostly due to the influence of so many of the most talented kids from her summer program ending up there. They are in various studios but she does have friends in Cap21 and I must say those kids (who I have seen in numerous productions over the years) are true triple threats which is sorta my daughter's thing, so to speak. She is a singer and dancer and actor. So, yes, she would want the program to be strong in singing and dancing for sure. I am sure Steinhardt is very strong. I know just one girl from her summer program who is admitted there and she is an excellent singer (not sure she dances). Dance is also a big part of my daughter's life (every day at the studio!). But for sure, we will have to research it thoroughly. My daughter is enamored with NYC and always has been. It is the most opposite setting/lifestyle from where we live (rural VT!!). She has been to NYC countless times, and has always wanted to live there. She has an agent in NYC and has auditioned there many times, including for Broadway. I would not be that into NYU myself cause of the sheer size of the school, the lack of a true campus environment, and so on, but that is what she wants......both the idea of NYU and of NYC are up her alley. Of course, when the time comes, we will look into all the good musical theater programs and she does have friends at most of them who we could visit. I just can deal with one kid's college admissions at a time. While I do not want to get into all this a the moment, the D who wants to go for musical theater, who is currently in tenth grade (and young for her grade to boot), is pressuring me about graduating early next year, which I am not anxious to do. But if for some reason, we do go that route, I would have to be looking at these colleges THIS year....mindboggling, considering the heavy duty time consuming involvement in that process with my first daughter at the moment! So, keep sharing stuff here as I am real interested to learn of your experiences cause as you know the college admissions process is quite different for musical theater than for just regular subjects like my other kid. While the odds for my other kid who is applying to several selective schools, including some Ivies, and so forth, is daunting, it surely is even more daunting in the odds for musical theater at top programs. Your daughter sounds confident about her many musical talents and my daughter feels that way too, and I know they will end up some place. Keep me informed!
Susan

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 07:24 am: Edit

C'mon you guys! Are we all totally buried in college apps and audition scheduling and preparation? Maybe so. But somebody out there must be having experiences to share vis-a-vis this crazy process. I'm so tired of our own whirlwind I'd love to hear about everyone else's! Share!.....Please?

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 09:14 am: Edit

My son has several friends at NYU. Some are at Tisch and some are at Steinhardt and the wonderful thing is that they all love where they are and feel that they made the right choice.
The studio placement is an issue to me as well about Tisch, but both girls there who did not get into their first choice studios feel that they are getting everything they want in their placements in Lee Strasberg and Stella Adler. You can audition out after two years, not three.
Steinhardt is more the traditional drama/music department within a university, and I personally feel more comfortable with that arrangement. When you talk to artists, however, they seem to feel that you make the contacts and get a real taste of theater life going through Tisch which is the official art arm of NYU. Steinhardt is the school of education, nursing, music,not quite so differentiated.
I strongly suggest kids, my son included to spend a "day in the life of" with each school and see what appeals to him. You unfortunately have to pick one or the other. One thing I have heard is that for kids with weaker academic stats, Tisch might be the better choice because the auditions count for a lot more whereas Steinhardt, again as I mentioned, is more traditional--university first, talent next. That could make a difference for a very talented applicant who has border line NYU stats. We will be doing your rounds next year.

By Cinge6 (Cinge6) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 09:38 am: Edit

Hi, I am a new post but have been lurking for a while and am very grateful for the information and help received from everyone.

My daughter is a senior and we will be traveling to Oklahoma City tonight for her audition on Sat. It is quite a stressful time! She just finished with the fall musical last weekend, Little Shop, she was Audrey. This left little time to prepare although she takes classical voice and always has a song of that type to use. Finding a monologue and picking a show tune has caused drama at our house!

I will let everyone know how it went when we return.

By Theatredivasmom (Theatredivasmom) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 02:34 pm: Edit

Hi Everybody,

I thought I posted this already but it didn't show up in the musical theatre section. I don't know if I referred to something I should have or what the problem was with the post. Anyhow, we just got back from NYC on Monday and two auditions. Our daughter auditioned at NYU and had an extremely pleasant experience. Certainly she understands the numbers and how difficult it is to get into the program, but she felt it was a wonderful life experience.

The auditors were wonderful at making the kids feel at ease. She felt her audition went reasonably well, in particular since it was her first audition of any kind for college. We also attended an NYU informational session that was great. As parents we were extremely impressed with NYU overall.

Additionally, on Saturday she auditioned at Fordham, where there is no MT program per se, although they do offer a musical theatre course. She felt that audition went extremely well. The first round of auditions were a great life experience for her.

She will hear by Christmastime as she was Early Decision at NYU and early action at Fordham.
Good luck to all students auditioning. It really was a wonderful experience for my daughter and I am sure it will be for all of you.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Thursday, November 13, 2003 - 03:33 pm: Edit

Theatredivasmom,

Which program at NYU did your daughter audition for? My daughter had a wonderful experience as well at the NYU Steinhardt audition on Nov 2 so they must be doing something right. Nice to know.

By Theatredivasmom (Theatredivasmom) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 02:48 pm: Edit

Theatermom,

My daughter auditioned at Tisch. There were 16 students auditioning and they split them into two groups. As I said, it was a great experience, both from a parental and student perspective. After the audition we went to an informational meeting, which was also handled extremely well. In fact, they almost made you feel like you wouldn't mind spending $43,000 because NYU has so much to offer in terms of student life experiences. The opportunities at NYU are just enormous from both the academic/conservatory view and the student life point of view.

I also forgot to mention that there is an applied music minor that students at Tisch can choose in addition to their BFA and our daughter thought that was also a great option. After the first of the year we're off to auditions at Emerson, Boston University, and Carnegie Mellon. I'll be both sad and glad when this whole process is over and we're getting ready to send her out into the world.

By Theatredivasmom (Theatredivasmom) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 04:21 pm: Edit

Theatermom,

My daughter auditioned at Tisch. There were 16 students auditioning and they split them into two groups. As I said, it was a great experience, both from a parental and student perspective. After the audition we went to an informational meeting, which was also handled extremely well. In fact, they almost made you feel like you wouldn't mind spending $43,000 because NYU has so much to offer in terms of student life experiences. The opportunities at NYU are just enormous from both the academic/conservatory view and the student life point of view.

I also forgot to mention that there is an applied music minor that students at Tisch can choose in addition to their BFA and our daughter thought that was also a great option. After the first of the year we're off to auditions at Emerson, Boston University, and Carnegie Mellon. I'll be both sad and glad when this whole process is over and we're getting ready to send her out into the world.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 05:20 pm: Edit

Theatredivasmom,

I SOOO understand what you mean about the mixed emotions of this experience. I'm really ready to not be obsessed with applications, audition dates, worrying every time something comes in the mail with a college return address....but of course that means we're that much closer to cutting the cord.

Don't mean to be nosey (and my daughter has already applied to Steinhardt, which is the best choice for her given her interest in classical vocal performance in addition to MT) but I bet others would also be interested in what the applied music minor at Tisch is all about. Who teaches those courses? Also, is it true that you have no input as to what studio your daughter might be placed in? And what will she do if they offer her a place in an acting studio as opposed to CAP 21 (especially as she has applied early decision) - is that possible?
Thanks for the info!

By Yaz42 (Yaz42) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 10:08 am: Edit

TheatredivasMom:

Is your daughter auditioning for Emerson in Boston or elsewhere? I am a current freshman BFA musical theatre major at Emerson College and if you come to Boston, I would be more than happy to show you around the school if you like. I absolutely love it here, and if you're interested, I could introduce you to the faculty and show performances spaces and such you probably wouldn't get on the tour. What it's like here from a student's prospective instead of the show the administration puts on. Just a proposal.

Happy auditioning everyone. Good luck.

Scott

By Monkey (Monkey) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 10:54 am: Edit

Theatredivasmom,
It is always reassuring to have a positive audition/college visit experience, and NYU certainly is unique in many ways. However, very few families are able to afford 43,000 per year to put a child through school, especially in a major as tenuous as music theatre. I think it's important to speak to the fact that excellent training and experience occurs at many other fine institutions and will not bankrupt a family in the process. Many MT students will wind up in New York once they graduate, and are more prepared for its demanding lifestyle at age 21 vs. 18. Sending your child out into the world takes on a whole new meaning when you send them to New York City. My older daughter ( not MT ) attended Tisch for film production and had a very positive experience ( pre 9/11 )Her path changed course and she is no longer there, but I have a sense of how unique and challenging NYC can be for college freshman. I also really believe that too much emphasis is placed on only the "elite" schools for MT training. For many families posting here, these schools are not a reasonable option due to cost. My point is that there are many outstanding choices, if you are willing to search them out, that will provide strong training at a reasonable cost.

By Momkallie (Momkallie) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 08:08 pm: Edit

So nice to be back posting here! We finally had our audition at Oklahoma City University.

I can not tell you how impressed we were with the whole process. They could not have ben more helpful or more accommodating to my daughter and I. We arrived an hour early and were immediately greeted by the student coordinator for the school. She explained where everything was, when it was happening and then gave us a student assistant who would take us where we needed to go and made sure we didn't miss our audition times. That was first class. While waiting in the lobby, I started talking with a gentleman about the school, scholarships and such. After 15 minutes, I asked who he was and he was the DEAN OF THE MUSIC SCHOOL. I was shocked! He took so much of his time to answer all our questions we felt very special.

We were quite suprised to find the lobby jammed pack with auditioners. It was OCU's first round of auditions and we were told there was over 75 that day. But I'm glad we didn't wait till the next round in March. We were told that the earlier you apply/audition, the better your chances of getting a good scholarship. Most of the students we talked to were receiving some kind of music school scholarship.

My daughter went to her acting audition prepared with several monologues and was very ready. This audition was juried by the head of the musical theater department. What may daughter wasn't prepared for was the questions he asked her after her monologue. She said he was interested in finding out about how she related to the piece, why she chose it and he asked her to do it differently. She said it was very challenging but that he was very nice and helpful. She also liked that students must take three years of acting.

Next came the vocal audition. She has been singing and taking lessons for 9 years and auditioning for as long, but she said nothing prepares you for this! The entire vocal faculty (7 teachers) were in one room and she was a bit intimidated. I guess it's different to sing for a director than singing for people who teach singing! She did both her pieces (a classical and a musical theater piece) and then she was quite suprised that they spent 10 minutes talking to her. She said that was the best part as she felt the teachers were interested in her and what she wanted to achieve. She said they couldn't have been a friendlier bunch and feels like they are experts in their field.

In a couple of hours, we were done auditioning and were were giving a campus tour. It really is a lovely small campus with a gothic/brick style design. We saw the new business school and the new dance school that open in January.

Overall, we feel that OCU has a strong, solid conservatory music program eventhough it is not a conservatory. The students we talked to were excited to be there and after seeing part of the opera double bill last night, we were blown away by the calliber of talent this school possesses. Many of the cast we thought were opera students but were actually musical theater students. They had AMAZING voices!

But one incident shaped our opinion. When arriving at the school, my daugher had realized she left her music theater anthology book back in the hotel. There wasn't much time to go back and get it. A student over heard this conversation and told us to stay put. In five minutes, they came back with the book and let us borrow it.

You can't put a price on that kind of environment. OCU truly has special people and a wonderful (and affordable) program. We will be looking at some other schools in the coming months in the mid west, but I think they will have a tough act to follow.

By Dancersmom (Dancersmom) on Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 09:18 pm: Edit

Hi Everyone,

We just got back from Michigan this afternoon. It was my daughter's 1st college audition and she feels it went very well. Audition day at Michigan begins with an orientation program held on the central campus. First three seniors spoke to the group about life at the school, what the curriculum was like, what they liked about Michigan, etc. E. coincidentally knew one of the students. He's from Cinci. and they did a show together when she was in the 6th grade and he was in the 10th. We ran in to him and his parents when we visited the school last April and they gave us the scoop about UM then. After the students spoke to us, the department chair, Brent Wagner talked to us. He was very personable and refreshingly honest. We were informed that UM was shooting for a freshman class of 10 boys and 10 girls. He said that UM sees many more talented students who could do well in their program every year than could be offered a place. He indicated that this was particularly true for the female auditioners. He laughed when he said that there were typically 4 to 5 times as many girls than boys auditioning and that we all surely knew that! Somehow, I found it comforting to hear him say that they regretted not being able to offer a spot to all of the deserving candidates.

After the orientation session ended, the students went to their group dance audition. E. said that the students were lined up at the barre in alphabetical order. They did a complete ballet barre. E. says that the barre was designed to see who had had ballet background and had enough more advanced exercises for it to be obvious who had extensive training. After the ballet audition the students were taught a simple MT style number. They were asked to perform it first as a large group and then in small groups of three. Two UM students performed the combination in the center each time so that the weaker students always had someone they could watch. (E.'s vocal coach, a former music director for CCM's MT program, says that at CCM they always group the auditioners so that someone who seems to be doing the dance pretty well is placed in each small group. He agrees that UM's method is even better for the weak dancers.) The dance teacher who was running the audition stressed to the students that she wanted to see them perform the dance, not just try to do the steps. It's more important to look confident in the dance audition than to get every step perfect. The dance teachers who run these auditions know that not everyone has a background in dance. They are evaluating your ability to pick up choreography quickly, your potential as a dancer, and your ability to perform with confidence.
After the dance audition was over, there was a break. E. had one hour and twenty minutes to eat, change clothes, fix her hair and makeup, get to the other side of the campus, and warmup for her vocal audition. Some students had even less time. The first vocal and acting auditions started one hour after the dance audition ended. We decided the night before to buy some easy on the tummy and vocal cords foods at Kroger and take them with us. We thought it would save time and cut down on stress. Travelling from UM's central campus to the north campus where the School of Music is located takes anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes. Free buses run every 10 to 15 minutes. One stops in front of the building where the dance audition is held. The trip itself takes about 10 minutes. We decided that it would be fastest for us to park our car on the central campus during orientation and the dance audition and pick up E. in front of the dance building when the dance audition ended. That way there would be no waiting time for a bus. E. and I find hurrying very stressful, so I wanted to give her as much time as possible to get ready for her vocal audition.

When we got to the School of Music we found free refreshments: juice, coffee, tea - including decaf, breads, flavored cream cheeses, and pastries. They also had two students manning an information table. They were very helpful in directing us where we needed to go. Students also acted as monitors outside the audition rooms. E.'s vocal audition was held on a stage. Brent Wagner was in that room. He complimented E. on her choice of songs and said she sang very well. She felt that they liked her performance. She told us that she felt surprisingly calm. I think that it's because she felt she aced the dance audition (as I knew she would). I think that set a good tone for the day. She was pleased that dance was first (despite the havoc it can wreak upon her naturally curly hair). She's most confident about her skill as a dancer and felt that doing it first would put her in a good frame of mind. I guess she was right.

E. did her acting audition about 15 minutes after she sang. The buzz in the hall was that the auditors were asking everyone to tell a joke. The kids were all working on remembering a good one to tell. E. walked in the room with a confident air and was immediately asked what monologues she had prepared. The committee picked the monologue that they were not familiar with. She gave a synopsis of the plot and set up the scene for them. (You'd better be sure you've read the entire play and be prepared to discuss it!) The committee seemed pleased with E.'s rendiditon. They asked her to make a few changes to see if she could follow direction. (This is quite common in an acting audition.) She did about half of her monologue a second time. When they stopped her they told her they'd seen enough and seemed very pleased with the way she'd been able to quickly make changes. She left the room feeling very good about her performance. She told us she hadn't felt nervous at all. She was puzzled about not being asked to tell a joke, however. I told her that others were probably asked to tell one as a way of loosening them up before they sarted their monologues. I said that she probably looked so confident and relaxed when she walked in that they didn't feel that she needed to tell a joke. (I heard one girl say that they had asked her to discuss the Laci Petersen murder case. I assume this was also a case of the faculty trying to help her relax.)

The last thing on the agenda was the piano audition. Students were asked to bring in a prepared piano piece if they had any piano experience at all. E. prepared a piece, but she is certainly not a pianist. She played French horn in middle school for three years and was quite good at it. A piano faculty member and a graduate student discussed her musical background with her. E. was surprised when they asked her to sight-read instead of play her prepared piece. Everyone else who'd gone in before her played only what they had prepared. Expect anything! Brent Wagner made it clear to us at the morning orientation session that UM values the ability to read music before coming to college highly. He discussed E.'s music background with her at the vocal audition. He seemed satisfied with her three years of horn and 4 1/2 years of voice.

All in all, E. is very pleased with her audition at UM. She says she's more nervous now that it's over because she now has to hold her breath for a month waiting for the results. She feels that the faculty liked her performances and is hopeful.
One last note: different faculty members viewed the four different components of the audition. I suppose they will be comparing notes on Monday. UM does not video-tape their auditions. If you have any questions let me know.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 08:46 am: Edit

Monkey,

Thanks so much for your thoughtful reminder about the emphasis being placed here on the so-called "elite" schools. My personal belief is that true talent will find its way and no matter where the training takes place, if the student performer has both talent and determination (and the same little bit of luck that all successful people need) he or she will end up where they are meant to be. I would also like to point out, however, that I have been pleasantly surprised by the amount of merit scholarship money that seems to be available for students interested in the performing arts - much more than we found when our son was applying to college as a liberal arts major. Just as an example, and only because we were just there, the Chair of the Music and Performing Arts Professions at NYU-Steinhardt told us that they awarded merit scholarships ranging from $2,000 - $25,000 a year (for 4 years) last year. Not bad! And I guess unless you throw your hat in the ring, you never know what might happen. I also appreciate that applying to so many schools is a financial burden for lots of people and I'd like to restate that most schools offer fee waivers if you qualify for them. Check with your school college counselors or the individual colleges for information about this. Penn State is another quality program that sems to have more than average financial support available to its MT's.

Momkalli and Dancersmom

Thanks so much for the wonderfully detailed info about the OCU and Michigan auditions. I know it will be so helpful for other students who have yet to audition and it's very unselfish of you to share like this. It takes a lot of time to recount these experiences in such detail but I know that we all appreciate your help.

By Cinge6 (Cinge6) on Monday, November 17, 2003 - 08:23 am: Edit

We just returned Sun evening from the drive to OKCU, my daughter auditioned Sat morning. We arrived Fri evening and went to the campus to see if we could get a tour, we did not have an appointment but they found a tour guide (who was wonderful)! These folks are so friendly and it really has a family atmosphere.

My daughter performed her songs first before a panel of 5 judges, she said one of the women smiled at her the whole time and that made her feel comfortable. They asked who her voice teacher was and how long she had studied(we forgot to put that in her resume) and asked why she wanted to come to that school. She seemed pretty pleased with the audition. Next was the reading with the director, he did not ask her to do anything over at all so we don't know if that was good or not, he did ask her what songs she had performed for for the voice part.

My husband and I spent most of the time during the audition speaking with the director of admissions Chris, he was so nice. He told us how they grade the auditions, a numbered scale if you get a 4 you are in, if you get higher numbers you are awarded scholarship $'s. also every student in the program is required to audition for all the productions opra and musical theatre, and everyone has an equal opportunity at parts.

They will be adding a huge building additions project scheduled for completion aug 2005.
Overall this was a great place and we will keep our fingers crossed she gets in.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 08:14 am: Edit

I want to add my thanks to those of you posting regarding your experiences in auditions...invaluable! My daughter is a high school junior so we are soaking up as much information as possible before we begin the audition process next year. Besides your audition experiences, what would be helpful as well is the process you went through in choosing audition material. I certainly understand if you don't want to give exact information about your specific choices, but any advice you might have to offer would be helpful....such as how far ahead you selected material, what sources you used to find material, etc. Thank you for your help...and continued success in the audition process!How many schools have your students each chosen to audition for? Have you chosen them in terms of reach/match/safety? How are you spacing out auditions? So many questions to answer!!! THANKS!

By Loves2watchmom (Loves2watchmom) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 04:52 pm: Edit

first time poster!
My daughter is a college freshman who recently decided that her attempt to keep "her hand in" dance and singing etc while focusing on a liberal arts education has left her crying (literally!) for more dance and singing/musical theatre! We are very thankful to have happened upon this great resource but have some questions that don't seem to be addressed with previous threads. She is now considering transferring and auditioning for both dance and MT programs with entrance for fall 2004. Because her musical theatre interest developed much more recently (2-3yrs) than the dance (many! and primarily ballet) the question until recently has been how much dance should I do in college with not really much thought given to MT. Now her strong desire is to get in to a good MT program with a strong focus on dance! Our question is which programs offer this, particularly in terms of the audition? Her weakness is definitely acting. She is currently dancing quite a bit and will continue with music theory, acting and MT next semester at her current college. From previous posts, it seems that FSU would be a good choice and her plan is to audition for both the dance and MT programs (again, she prefers MT but feels more optimistic about acceptance into the dance!) Previous posters have mentioned programs that are NOT dance focused but little has been said about the ones that ARE. Any ideas?
Also, she is very worried about her shortcomings (as mentioned!) so any tips etc from those of you who may have entered MT from this direction would be appreciated. It does seem that many more come from an opposite -very strong singing, acting etc and weaker dance.......true?
loves2watchmom

By 43812336 (43812336) on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 10:22 pm: Edit

Hi,

My younger sister's a high school senior and wants to major both in musical theater and journalism. She's applying to schools she can get into academically first, but that also have good journalism and musical theater programs. So far she's applying to DePaul, Emerson, Loyola, and *maybe* NYU. Can anyone gauge her chances at these schools? Also, does anyone know if these are well-regarded for MT, or could recommend any others within her reach?

She'd prefer a school in or near a big city on the East Coast or in Chicago; I've suggested schools like Indiana University but she won't apply because she doesn't want to go out-of-state unless it's in these places.

Her stats:

-about a 3.5 GPA from a very competitive, highly-regarded public high school (4 APs total)
-4 yrs ballet
-10 years piano
-High School showchoir
-3 years voice lessons
-very involved in musicals and plays at school

Any suggestions? Chances? This would be SO helpful to her. Thanks!!!

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 07:10 am: Edit

43812336

The obvious choice would seem to be Northwestern. Although their MT program is not a major (at present it is a "certificate" program for which you audition after your freshman or sophomore year), it is well regarded and not all-consuming like the conservatory programs. Also, they do not audition if you come in through the Theatre Department. They do audition if you come in through the Music School. The other attraction for your sister is they have one of the most highly regarded undergraduate journalism programs in the country at their Medill SChool of Journalism. It's very competitive academically. Check it out and good luck.

By Laurenz (Laurenz) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 11:01 am: Edit

Depaul, as far as I know, does not have a musical theater program. My son goes to Emerson and they have an excellent musical theater program, as well as wonderful writing and journalism majors, and it is not a conservatory. It is very competitive, but well worth the effort.

By Marcyr (Marcyr) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 05:46 pm: Edit

I have a somewhat different issue to toss out to all of you MT experts: My daughter is a sophomore at a college that shall remain nameless, and she is involved with one of the theater clubs on campus. She has been performing in musicals since 8th grade, and while she never had a lead, she always at least got into the chorus. Well, now she's finding that she can't even make the chorus, and she's beyond frustrated. She's classically trained and as a result has more of a classical-sounding voice, rather than a belter voice, which has always been a problem. However, when she was singing to herself backstage last week while moving scenery before the current show opened, the cast members who were back there all wanted to know why she hasn't been in one of their shows yet, since she has such a wonderful voice? LOL, that's what SHE'd like to know.

She has two auditions for shows coming up after Christmas, and she's in search of some new audition numbers. The two shows are as opposite in feel as they could possibly be, with one a cabaret-kind of production and the other "You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown." Can anyone suggest some songs she could use for these auditions? She feels that she should use something a little more elegant for the cabaret audition, and something bouncier and upbeat for Charlie Brown. She's an alto who can easily handle most soprano songs, but she isn't a belter. Help! Any suggestions, before I go to the library and start checking out their Broadway CDs?

By Wct (Wct) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 07:47 pm: Edit

Marcyr,
For what it's worth............
If your daughter is going to audition for "Your A Good Man Charlie Brown" my advice would be to do something from the show, if that is allowed. The female roles from Charlie Brown are sung in a "character" voice. The roles in Charlie Brown must be acted extremely well because you must convince the audience that you are a child. You do not use your "normal voice". These roles are usually "typed". Can your daughter "type" as Lucy or Patty for example. There are two versions of Charlie Brown one of which is the revival so have your daughter find out which version they are doing and listen to the score and read the script.

For the other production she needs to know what show it is and listen to the score from that show. Then she will be better able to match a song to the genre.

Only someone who knows the show(s) she is auditioning for and your daughter's voice will be able to make quality suggestions.

From a performer/director/teacher's point of view it is important for the person doing the auditioning to do their homework. You need to really know the show you are going to audition for so that you can pick your audition material wisely. All singers should have in a binder, prepared for an accompanist, several song choices just for auditions. Two ballads, two up-tunes, two character songs, two patter style songs. The singer should know these tunes inside and out and feel comfortable performing them under any circumstance. These tunes will be your audition tunes for a long time. You perform better when you know these songs like the back of your hand and an audition is all about performing not just sounding good. I can't reiterate that enough.

I was speaking to a contemporary just yesterday who told me he went to a CLO audition and changed his audition tune just a week prior. He did not do a good audition because he fumbled his words and was concerned about other aspects of the song. He said, "I did exactly what I tell my students not to do for an audition, to change audition material just prior to an audition".

In cases where songs from the show you are auditioning for are prefered you must do your best to have adequate time to prepare.

By Marcyr (Marcyr) on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Wct -
Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, auditioning with a song from the show that is being cast is frowned upon in her theater group, otherwise knowing what to sing would be a piece of cake. I will pass on to her your suggestion that she find out which version of "Charlie Brown" they're going to use, and hopefully she'll be able to come up with another song that allows her to sing with some kind of "character" voice. As for the other show, she knows the genre well, and is already considering two other songs by the same composer. Frankly, I think she'll do much better with the cabaret audition, as the music is more 'smoky' and smooth sounding and works better with her voice type.

You were absolutely spot on with your comment about always auditioning with a piece you know intimately. In September she decided to audition for a voice minor, and made the mistake of using a newer, flashier piece for her audition. Needless to say, she screwed up the French, and when the pianist made a timing mistake she was already so rattled by her language error that she almost fell apart. She didn't get the minor, although she was offered merit scholarship voice lessons, and she's still kicking herself for not staying with an "old friend" for the audition. If nothing else, she learned that lesson, albeit the hard way.

By 43812336 (43812336) on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 11:10 pm: Edit

Thanks guys. Any other suggestions?

By Dancersoo (Dancersoo) on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 11:32 pm: Edit

This thread is great reading! I've read about 4/5 of it already, but I haven't found anything about Sarah Lawrence, Otterbein, or any California schools at all (Cal State Fullerton, Cal State San Francisco, Cal. Institute for the Arts). What about Western Michigan University? I can't find musical theater on their website, but they show up on a list posted on this web. Does anyone have information about any of these?

My next question is that OCU's website mentions their connection to the Rockettes and also the 42nd Street performers from OCU were Rockettes (I think). Is there a preference at OCU for dancers with long legs? And what does it mean to be good-looking (like CCM apparently requires) for musical theater? Is cute without long legs marketable? How diverse are the groups the schools choose?

Another question: since most of these MT programs offer ballet first year, at best, how do dancers keep up their technique?

Another question: with the odds of acceptance that I'm reading about, how come almost everyone gets into at least one school? How can all the kids I read about on this board get into several schools? I'm not a math genius, but with these odds hundreds to thousands of high school seniors must be crushed and become what? video store clerks?

Finally, what is the point of going to Tisch if you don't get into Cap21 if your heart is set on musical theater? If you're obsessed with musical theater, as was stressed earlier in this thread, why would you settle for less just to go to Tisch?

By Wct (Wct) on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 03:33 am: Edit

Dancersoo-
I know Cal State Fullerton has been mentioned several times in this thread. Maybe you missed it. People have spoken positively about the program. CalArts in Valencia has been mentioned too I think but they do not have an MT program. They have an acting program, visual art, dance, film/video, music. Here is their web address: http://www.calarts.edu/

By Theatredivasmom (Theatredivasmom) on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 08:05 pm: Edit

Monkey,

Just had a chance to catch up on the boards and wanted to acknowledge your well-written post and let you know I couldn't agree with you more. Our daughter has applied to some of the types of school you refer to in addition to Fordham, NYU, Univ. of Michigan, and Carnegie Mellon. I have noticed that there does seem to be less information about the state schools with MT programs and maybe they need to look at getting that information out to the MT students.

I hope I didn't come across as indicating that only the "elite schools" were ones to be considered. I think what I was trying to express was how exciting it was for my daughter to go after the long shot of NYU and to know that she was brave enough to stick her neck out, even though the likelihood of attaining entrance to one of the studios is slight. I think she looked at it as having taken a risk and certainly that is something we, as parents, want our children to be willing to try as they progress into their adult lives.

I have to say that although my daughter has not applied exclusively to only MT programs, this webpage was extremely helpful and I'd like to thank everyone for all the great information about the many MT programs that they have shared.

Theatredivasmom (Kris)

By Wct (Wct) on Saturday, November 22, 2003 - 11:55 pm: Edit

Theatredivasmom,
I agree that the state schools don't do much about advertising their programs. I am wondering if they take the "you have to come to us attitude" because their institutions are so large. I know many state schools have great programs but they don't even take the time to visit our performing arts high school to give a presentation like the private institutions do. That is the case too regarding junior colleges that I know of that have good programs also. I know of some very talented students who for financial reasons had to take the JC route and then plan to transfer in two years. For example, for those of you who live in Southern California, Santa Monica College (a JC) has an incredible drama department http://www.smc.edu/theatre/default.htm. (click on "about the department"). They have a large transfer rate of students to Juilliard and other state colleges for acting than many other institutions I am aware of. I was very impressed by that. The caliber of students is high because many are going there part time while they are working in the industry, mainly television. It is amazing what you can find if you look deep enough.

By Dancersoo (Dancersoo) on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 12:43 pm: Edit

Wct:

Thanks for the info about Santa Monica College. That's the kind of information you don't get anywhere else. I'd rather start right out at a four year, but I have some friends I think would really like that route. Do you have personal experience there?

By Wct (Wct) on Sunday, November 23, 2003 - 10:33 pm: Edit

Dancersoo,
I know some students who are going there. One of them is a regular on a Disney show (That's So Raven) so it is convenient to where she is living and the studio where she is taping.

I haven't spoken to her in a long time but I haven't heard anything negative.

By 5pants (5pants) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 11:16 am: Edit

Okay, I would like your feedback on this. My son auditoned this weekend and after he delivered his monologue the faculty redirected him and had him perform his dialogue in a completely different style. They only did this with him and one other person in his group of 13. After monologues were performed they broke into groups of two and performed 6 line improvs. My son was first to go with his partner. The faculty then requested my son to perform another improv with the last girl. No one else was asked to perform a second time. Is this all good? Yikes! On pins and needles....the faculty was a bit hard to read evidently, but seemed to warm up to him after the last improv.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 01:48 pm: Edit

5pants...
my interpretation of this was that they were very interested in seeing how your son took direction. By asking for him to do something again, in a totally different vein, they wanted to see if he could adapt what he had done one way and do it very differently. I would be very happy if I were him! They apparently saw something in your son, and wanted to see more! From my daughter's experiences in audition circumstances, this can only be interpreted as good news! Good luck to your son! Do you mind telling us where they audition was? If you have any other information from your son's experience you can share, we'd love to learn from it too!

By 5pants (5pants) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 02:25 pm: Edit

Musicalthrmom,

Thanks for the response.
This whole process is absolutely "wow" for me! You see, I have twins that are auditioning...double craziness. The school they auditioned for was DePaul. They love it there and we are hoping for the best. They will also be auditioning for Webster and U of Minnesota Twin Cities. If all fails they can at least pursue a BA in Theatre at Twin Cities. Their twinship could be a double edge sword, so we'll have to see where the road takes them. So far however, it has all been positive.

P.S. They can go either MT (which DePaul or U of M don't have majors for) or Acting. It was a hard decision, as far as choice of schools, but they are pleased with these three choices.
Thanks again!

By Momkallie (Momkallie) on Monday, November 24, 2003 - 03:56 pm: Edit

To the person requesting info on OCU and dance:

I think you were looking at the OCU Dance School web page, not the School of Music. The people who have been cast in 42nd Street (5, I believe..more than any other school) and the Rocketts were (I believe) students of the dance school. They were not musical theater majors.

The dance audition we did was very intense. Jazz and tap were very challenging. If you didn't have previous experience or training, you would not be able to fake it. However, the dance audition does not play a major part in acceptance to OCU. The vocal and acting audition are what will get you admitted.

We also learned that two students who graduated in June, were cast in the national tour of "Oklahoma" after being in NY for only two weeks. Another grad is one of the leads in the "Sussical" tour as well. We were very impressed that OCU training seems to get their students work.

By Dancersoo (Dancersoo) on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 01:16 am: Edit

To Momkallie:

Thanks for your info about OCU. That's great to know because I thought it was their musical theater I was reading about. By your name here, are you the mom of someone who auditioned at OCU? Did he/she decide to go there? I am wondering what their classes are like, and even what the piano classes are like. How much piano training (ahead of time) would be helpful?

By Acavallo1 (Acavallo1) on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 02:21 pm: Edit

Does OCU require recommendations as part of the admissions process? the checklist for applying does not say, but if applying to the MT program, would it be beneficial to send one anyway? Thanks.

Angie

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 05:57 pm: Edit

Hi. This is a great thread! You guys are great about sharing information. Has anybody ever checked out Sarah Lawrence? I was reading about that school for my daughter. They say they have a musical theater major, but it might be a piece-together thing. Also, does anybody know if it's better to audition for a part using a song from the show or not, if they don't tell you what they want? Thanks.

By Laz (Laz) on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 06:07 pm: Edit

Hey yall,

I have a list of the schools that Im auditioning for and I was wondering if you guys have any comments/preferences/additions?

CCM
CMU
Boston Conservatory
Penn State
Syracuse

Also I was wondering if you guys know anything about Emerson College as compared to Boston Conservatory (as they are both IN Boston..just curious)

Ok Thanks

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 11:25 pm: Edit

Laz,
As it has been mentioned many times on this thread it is you who must decide which college is the best fit for you. Everyone who has participated in this discussion has their favorites, (take some time and read the thread), but what might be right for one student won't necesarily be right for another. It is very important to look deep into a college's program, especially its curriculum. Will the program provide the skills and connections you will need once you graduate to succeed in such a competitive industry? Is the campus a good fit for you? BFA vs BA? Four years, although it will go by very fast if you are happy, will not if you wish you had gone somewhere else. It is important to keep in mind that even though you could transfer to another program if you were accepted, many conservatory programs will have you start back at square one. Would that be affordable? Do your homework. The time you spend researching could make all the difference in making the right choice. Good luck to you!

By Wct (Wct) on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 11:37 pm: Edit

Mtmommy-
You asked about auditioning with a song from the show if the director does not specify in the audition information.
If there is anyway to ask someone involved in the production before hand do it. Better to be safe than sorry. Is it a professional production, CLO, high school musical?
It is very important to show your best stuff in order to have the best shot at a call back. You should always do the material you know backwards and forwards at an audition, the song or best 32 bars you've got to show yourself off. And remember, the first 30 to 60 seconds in front of a director are the most important if you type for that particular show.

By Marcyr (Marcyr) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 12:13 am: Edit

I must share this with you all, in case it's new to you. DD came home for Thanksgiving and brought (in addition to books and dirty laundry) the CD of the show "The Last Five Years" by Jason Robert Brown. If you're not familiar with it, try to get your hands on it - it has one of the funniest songs I've ever heard about MT auditions. The song is called "Climbing Uphill," and I guarantee that you and your MT child(ren)will enjoy it.

By Chrism (Chrism) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 08:58 am: Edit

Hi everyone,

I've just started reading here - it's incredible! thanks so much esp. for all the parents posting about audition experiences. Very helpful. My daughter is a junior in HS, about to start visiting campuses.

I have a question about the Syracuse University summer college program in MT. It looks good on the website, very focussed, but I haven't seen any mention of it here. Does anyone have any experience with it?

ChrisM

By Momkallie (Momkallie) on Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 09:48 pm: Edit

Hi Dancersoo and others!

Yes..my daughter had an audition at OCU a few weeks ago which you can read about (around the November 15th posts, I think). In short, we found OCU to be a very professional and serious school for musical theater study. They run it like a conservatory, but you get a BM degree at the end. We like the fact that the MT students are taught classical voice technique. This is the kind of technique that builds stamina and ability in a performer. My daughter was afraid she'd come out singing like an "opera diva", but when she learned that Kristen Chenoweth and Kelli O'Hara (whom my daughter loves on the "Sweet Smell of Success" cast recording) were trained at OCU, she was excited!

But as a parent, I have to say that what I liked the most about OCU was 1) the sincere concern for my daughter by the staff and administration (who even knew her name when she was one of 70 kids auditioning) and 2) the price. For $19,000 a year, this school is a bargin. Other schools with such a national reputation cost a bit more. Plus, the dean of the music school told us over 80% of the students receive some sort of scholarships and financial aid.

Thanks to you all for your interesting and helpful audition advice. Keep it coming!

By Laurenz (Laurenz) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 10:07 am: Edit

Laz,

My son is a freshman at Emerson and absolutely loves it there. The major difference between Emerson and Boston Conservatory is that Emerson is not a conservatory; the students take classes outside their major, like psychology and sociology, not much math and science though . They are looking to make smart, thinking actors and believe you need to go beyond a conservatory approach. However, from what I can see from my son's first semester, the emphasis is on classes for his major, which is BFA Musical Theater. I cannot say enough about how wonderful I think Emerson is. It's a perfect fit for my son. Good luck to you.

By Doc021 (Doc021) on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 10:32 pm: Edit

Hello all,
I was wondering if anyone had any numbers regarding liberal arts education with a MT major at different colleges. I want to major in MT, and my parents think that's great, but they are paying for college and are concerned that I might not recieve much college education. If anyone could help me find a good college with a heavy liberal arts courseload or any percentages on coleges I would greatlyapprecite it. I realize that at most all schools more than 2/3 of the classes will be in the MT major, but any info. helps...
Thanks so much!
Doc

By Mstee (Mstee) on Tuesday, December 02, 2003 - 04:23 pm: Edit

Okay, here's a question for all you seasoned pros. I have a fifth grader, and she would like to audition for a few things this year and see what happens. She has never auditioned for anything except choir, drama camp, school plays--so far, nothing "big." What is it like to audtion for something big? Any tips? There is an audition opportunity coming up in a couple of weeks, and she wants to try it, just to see what it is like.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 11:33 pm: Edit

Mstee

My best advice is as follows:
Don't "prepare" her. Any production you are going to want your 5th grader to be in is not going to be looking for a finished product. They will be more concerned with how comfortable she is being a ten year old in front of alot of strangers. When my daughter, who is now 17, was little, she always asked me when I was going to take her to the people who would put her on television. As much as I thought it might happen for her if I took her to casting directors or agents, I wouldn't do it because I wanted her to have a "normal" childhood. That's so much more important than anything being a working child actor can give your child. Besides, I knew that if she wanted it enough, at some point she'd call a cab or do whatever she needed to do to get there by herself. When she was 12, she came to me and told me that the drama teacher at school had gotten a casting notice from a regional equity company looking to cast the lead of Fern in their inaugural professional children's theatre production of Charlotte's Web and said that if I wouldn't take her, the drama teacher's daughter was going and she'd go with them. I knew the theater had a really good reputation for working with children, so I knew they wouldn't destroy her in the audition process, so I took both girls to the audition. They didn't ask them to prepare anything, but she decided to sing a few lines from a song she knew and that was it. Long story short, much to all of our surprise, after three callbacks, she was offered the contract and worked 8 shows a week for 7 weeks. The point of this whole story is they did nothing more complicated than ask her to read a few lines from the script and then "pretend" to talk to animals (i.e., improvise.) The director later told me she was cast because she was comfortable taking direction from adults she had never met, wasn't afraid to ask questions if she didn't understand what was being asked of her and typed for the part (had the look they wanted) - none of which we could have prepared for anyway.

So, if SHE really wants to do this, make sure you understand what you may be getting into as a family. Do your research about the theater she'd be working at. Keep the whole experience very low key so she won't expect alot and won't be disappointed if she isn't cast. Little egos can be very fragile. If you must do this, prepare her to deal with the personal aspects of the audition process. At that age, that's much more important than the "preparation" of material for the audition.

Feel free to email me if you have any specific questions you think I might be able to answer.

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 11:39 pm: Edit

Hi everybody!

Well we're off for another round of auditions this weekend - Syracuse on Friday and Emerson (Early Action application) on Saturday. All of your good karma seems to have been a big help at NYU - Steinhardt, by the way. The program director emailed my daughter 5 days after the audition, telling her that the faculty was "most impressed" with her audition. He invited my husband, daughter and I to set up a meeting with him which we will have this Sunday on our way back from Boston. Keep your fingers crossed!! I'll try and report back on the audition process early next week. Thanks everyone!

By Soozievt (Soozievt) on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 12:28 pm: Edit

I want to wish Theatermom's D to break a leg on her college auditions. It sounds like she is faring very well so far and something will work out. My D has a friend applying early to Emerson for musical theater as well. I will be thinking of you and keep us informed of how it all goes.

For Mstee...I think Theatermom gave you great advice. I can just add to it. I have a 15 year old who has been involved in musical theater since she was four. So, I have been through every level of auditioning.....between school, theater camp, community theater, college productions, professional theater all the way up to Broadway. I wish I knew a little bit more what sort of thing your daughter wants to try out for, whether it is a play or musical and whether it is community, regional, or NY theater. I think if I knew a bit more, I could advise you more what the audition might be like.

For one thing, the key here is that your daughter wants to go for this audition. It is coming from the child. I know this first hand as my daughter pushed us to let her keep trying for higher and higher levels of theater. She had always gotten cast whenever she tried out in our own state. She went away to a theater camp when she was nine where the kids were an extremely talented group and did very well in casting there which kind of opened my eyes a bit. Because of the influence there of staff and kids, my daughter pushed us to let her get an agent in NYC, even though we live in Vermont and I had never ever dreamt of pursuing it at that level. But she is driven and has driven us to allow her to audition in NYC, etc. (WE drive, LOTS!).

Anyway, I do not know the level of audition that your daughter is going to try. I can say that when my daughter has auditioned in NYC, she is very aware that at that level, you have to go and expect NOT to get cast. Not only are there tons of qualified/talented other kids auditioning at that level, but a lot comes down to a look, a type, a height, etc...things beyond the child's control. She goes expecting not to be cast though I must admit she is a very confident type of person in general. She does understand the reality of the audition experience at this level. I believe EVERY audition is a learning experience. There is the preparation and the audition itself. By going through these auditions, the child gets good at auditioning itself. She is very confident whenever she auditions and can carry herself well. So, I would advise you to talk to your daughter about the level of this "big" audition and the chances. Explain how it can come down to a look or height. But to go in and just do her thing and enjoy that experience. If she gets cast, it is icing on the cake. But this ain't school or camp, so even if she is a lead in these venues, this is a different ballpark. I wish I knew what kind of audition you meant. Is it singing? Try to pick a song that shows your child well. The style of song should be in keeping with the role or show to some degree. Try to sing something not from the show unless it is specified. Have the sheet music with you and find out ahead of time if she can only sing a section of the song, and decide which section that will be and mark the start and stop on the music for the pianist. If she can practice with accompaniment before going, that would be nice. If you can find out what is involved in this audition, that helps to be prepared. If it is a cold read, there is not much prep for that. Does she need a monologue? Is there a dance audition (bring clothes to move in, etc). Dress in a way that is in keeping with the part...not in costume but believeable for that role. If it is a very young role, do not dress real "teen-ish". Flat shoes might be best, depending on the age of the character.

The main thing afterwards is to just talk about how she felt her audition went and if she comes out feeling pleased with how she did, then she is a winner. That is all you can do. And if she wants to keep auditioning at this level, she has to understand that it can take numerous auditions before landing a role and sometimes, no matter if she did the very best, she may not fit the look of the role. I find at lower levels of theater, looks count way less and they are just looking for the most talented kid. But as you go up in levels, there are enough talented kids that other uncontrollable factors play a part in casting.

If you wish to explain what level of theater and what role/show, I might be able to help you more specifically.

Since your daughter wants to try, I would go along with it unless you feel that the show is not workable for your family. Make sure you weigh whether you would be able to manage your daughter's "job" in your family before the audition and all that is involved cause the worst would be to say no after being cast. It is hard to balance out the child's strong desire to do a show that in all likelihood might be very hard on a family but do what is right for you.

Do let us know how it turns out. If you wish to share the level of theater or part, I might be able to help further.

Break a leg to your D. She sounds smitten with theater......welcome to this crazy world cause I can tell you, it grows and grows and grows, til you get to the point like other parents on this thread whose kids are now applying to college for this!
Susan

By Mstee (Mstee) on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Theatremom, thanks for your very detailed input.. Just want to say that, after thinking about it, we are looking at this audition as a way to get one under her belt and just see what the process is like--it is for a Broadway show/touring co. The information about the audition was given to her children's choir, and passed along to all of the choir members. We weren't looking for anything like this--I was thinking more along the lines of auditioning for some community theater things this spring--but this opportunity came up, and she wants to give it a shot. I don't expect her to be cast in this, and I don't even know the details of what it would entail (other than possibly traveling and huge time commitment) and probably won't unless she were to be cast or seriously considered, so can't really tell if we could do it or not until further along in the process. I guess we're both just really curious to see what it would be like to audition for something like this.

By Mstee (Mstee) on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 03:28 pm: Edit

Sorry, I was rushing and got Theatermom and Soozievts post sort of mixed together in my mind. Thank you both for all of your input/advice!

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 10:25 am: Edit

Just wondering if any of you who have sons/daughters in the midst of the college audition process have any news to report! Don't some of the schools notify you within a month or so of your audition as to your admission status? When my junior daughter and I visited U Michigan I believe they said auditioners would know within a month of their audition if they have been admitted. Do all the schools do this? We'd love to know what to expect when it's our turn next year! THANKS!

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 11:22 am: Edit

Hi everybody!

As if this audition process wasn't hard enough, let's just add a few feet of snow while we're trying to complete a Philadelphia to Syracuse to Boston to New York to Philadelphia drive from Thursday thru Sunday - Phew! What a weekend!

It was crazy but very interesting and helpful on many levels. I'll try to be concise about what we learned and our impressions of the programs we saw. But please remember that these are just the impressions of one mother and daughter. Add them to your mix, but continue your research, try to get info from lots of sources and form your own opinions about what will work best for you (the student)/your child/your family.

Syracuse was first on Friday. Needless to say, in the winter, anyplace looks grayer and more gloomy and Syracuse (the city and the University) don't look great at this time of year. But the people who met and ran the audition at Syracuse could not have been nicer - very welcoming, did and said lots to make the kids feel as relaxed and comfortable as possible. A 45 minute info session with Q&A was most helpful. Jim Clark, head of the drama program was wonderfully low-key, knowledgeable and remarkably candid addressing some tricky questions. My daughter felt that the dance audition was the best she's experienced yet, i.e., the faculty members took dance very seriously. The group was divided in two based on self provided dance training info. Those with experience, including my daughter, auditioned together, those with little or no experience auditioned in a different room. My daughter said the warm up was short but professional (mostly beginning barre work) but the MT combo was fun and challenging. They learned it together, did it in small groups first and then in groups of two. The singing audition was well run with 2 faculty members observing and a very good accompanist. Things started to get backed up as the day went on so they decided to let the faculty who had previously been auditioning the acting only candidates start seeing some of the MT monologues in addition to the MT faculty who were also observing monologues in a diferent room. My daughter auditioned before the acting faculty. She said she was nervous when she heard she would be sent there but said the three women who saw her were very nice and made her feel very comfortable.

While the kids auditioned, the parents were treated to coffee and snacks in the lobby (the whole audition took place at Syracuse Stage, the LORT theatre that is affiliated with SU and where most of the SU theatre classes are taught) We were also offered a tour of the complex by an SU student and that was incredibly informative. The student was a bright, talented MT senior (he auditioned at 12 schools including CCM, CMU, Michigan, Syracuse, Ithaca, Tisch, Boston Conservatory and a few others, got in EVERYWHERE except Ithaca (go figure...), chose SU and loves it. He was honest about the program's strengths and weaknesses and I enjoyed talking to him for awhile after the tour. Very helpful!!

My daughter left feeling more interested in the program, unenthusiastic about the location and feeling like she did a good audition. I left feeling as though this could be a high quality program that really does place equal importance on singing, acting and dance is definitely more nurturing of its students than others we have either seen or heard about.

We drove to Boston Friday evening, staying just ahead of the snow storm but still exhausted after a long day and 5 more hours of driving. When we awoke, there was already 8 - 10 inches of snow in Boston, no big deal for these hearty souls. Luckily I have an SUV 4 wheel drive so we were able to make it from a near suburb, where we stayed with family, into Boston in time for the 9am start of the audition day at Emerson. I wish I could say we felt as welcomed there. Maybe it was a function of the weather, but everybody seemed a little serious and we were all jammed into an academic lecture room with not enough seats for everyone. The Auditions Co-ordinator gave the info about the school and he was very nice and quite informative. My daughter and I both got the impression from the outset that this was a program with a very well thought out and flexible acting program with an MT program tacked on to it. They admitted that up until last year that dance was "the low man on the totem pole," but said that with the arrival of a new faculty person last year, the program was being strengthened. The parents waited in this room (or walked outside and around in the ongoing blizzard,) while the kids auditioned in various rooms around the building, which was described as an academic one. The dance auditions took place in the Tufte Performance Center around the corner but accessible without going outside. They had not one thing to eat or drink for the kids or parents. Would a cup of coffee or tea been too much to ask for given that we all had made an enormous effort to come there in less than ideal conditions? Call me picky, but stuff like that says something to me.

Here's my daughter's take on the audition. Dance was very simple (step turn, grapevine, 1 -2 - 3) and when one girl tried to add a little flourish of some kind she was told "Don't add anything! Don't try to impress me. Just do what I tell you." My daughter said he could probably tell who had some training but not much more than that. She did her singing audition and monologue auditions in different rooms but both were in front of one judge only. She felt that it put a lot of pressure on the kids to think that only one person is in a position to hold thumbs up or down on your performance. In both cases the faculty person worked with her on her pieces after she did them the first time and then interviewed her for a short time. She felt the "work" part was useful and gave her an opportunity to show that she was directable and she liked that. She felt that her one mistake was in answering a question about whether or not Emerson was her first choice. All the kids there this weekend had applied to Emerson under their Early Action Program. My daughter did that only because it was available and a good way to spread out her auditions so she honestly answered that she still had several schools to learn more about but that given what she knew now, Emerson was still high on her list. I think she gave exactly the right answer, even if it means she won't get in Early Action. In truth, she would not accept an offer from them yet and so saying it was her first choice would have been disingenuous. I'm very proud that she was honest, even if she initially felt like she had "blown" something.

All in all, she felt positively about what she did. She learned some things that will be very helpful as she proceeds to her next set of auditions in January at Michigan, CCM and CMU, schools in which she is perhaps more interested at present. I think it is very helpful to do auditions at schools that are perhaps a bit lower on your list first. The confidence you gain and things you learn will help a lot down the road.

We got out of Boston around 1:00 and although we encountered some really tough driving thru Connecticut, we made it to NY a little after 6. We had a meeting with the Vocal Performance Program Director at NYU Steinhardt at 2 on Sunday and knew that if we stayed overnight in Boston, we'd never get out the next day. That meeting went very well and we watched a lovely performance of 2 chamber operas by the Classical Voice students afterwards.

Needless to say, home looked great last night. I hope this description is in some way helpful to those of you treading this path. Feel free to ask any further questions you feel I might be able to answer. You all have helped us so much, it's a pleasure to share back.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 12:15 pm: Edit

Theatermom....THANKS for all the info on your auditioning this past weekend....invaluable help to those of us with the road ahead. My daughter and I made a visit to Syracuse last summer. While we liked the program and its connection with the Equity theater program, we were unimpressed with the music aspect of the program. My daughter is a singer first...then a dancer (even with 12 years of training!)...then an actor. So we are anxious to find a program that will add to her vocal training. A program where she could do musical theater AND opera would be her first choice. Any thoughts on how Syracuse would measure up from your experience? Or anywhere else you may have noticed this possibility....many thanks for your thoughts!

By Theatermom (Theatermom) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 01:12 pm: Edit

Musicalthtrmom,

A couple thoughts:

Our daughters sound remarkably similar. Her greatest strength is singing, she has 11 years of dance experience and needs to work most on her acting.

If you are truly interested in strengthening her as a singer first and foremost and want her to have access to classical vocal technique as well as MT techniques look long and hard at NYU-Steinhardt (search for my earlier posts on this site about our experiences there) However, if your daughter wants to get stronger in the disciplines of musical theatre in which she NEEDS the most work, we're beginning to think there may be some questions about the strength of Steinhardt's acting training. I want to do more research about this, but the curriculum listing is not impressive in acting. That makes sense because the degree there is a BM not a BFA and music classes are far and away the largest component of their program. While they have told us they consider their acting training on a par with any other program, they admit that their dance training is the weak link in the program.

I have told my daughter many times and I think she now believes me, that the sign of a true professional is one who is willing to work on what they DON'T do well, not just continue to show off what they DO do well. Given that, my daughter has decided that the quality of the acting training at the program she goes to is at least as important at the vocal training that will help her to continue to develop her current greatest strength. Given the competitive nature of this field, she wants to be able to go after roles that require strong acting as well as MT roles.

Also look at Michigan. Their MT program is housed in the School of Music and seems to offer excellent legit vocal training to all of its students.

Hope this helps.

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 02:29 pm: Edit

Theatermom...
Thanks for your input. It is a tough choice...do you strengthen what may be your selling point or work to strengthen your weakest point. In a perfect world, you get the opportunity to do both but as I am becoming more and more aware, in the ultra-competitive world of musical theater, you sometimes have to make a choice. We have indeed looked at U of Michigan. My daughter couldn't find a single fault with the program there. We were extremely impressed. Only probably is they only take 20 new students a year -- 10 girls/10 boys. So everyone's chances are slim (particularly if you're a girl!). That's reality. It won't stop her from trying to get in though! Again, thanks for the benefit of your research. I'll look more closely at NYU Steinhardt. I've only given it a cursory look thus far. Best of luck to your daughter in the audition process.

By Chrism (Chrism) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 04:55 pm: Edit

Hi everyone,

I'm sensing from the discussion that it is better to audition early than late, like Oct-Nov rather than Feb? Is that correct?

(I'm the mom of a HS junior)

ChrisM

By Wct (Wct) on Monday, December 08, 2003 - 08:53 pm: Edit

ChrisM-
My son did his auditions in February last year and it didn't seem to be a problem, (he is at CMU this year). We could not afford to travel back East to do auditions there and had to wait for the West Coast auditions.

I would imagine that if you wanted to do early action or the like you would do your auditions early. I know that some conservatory programs don't do early action/decision.

By Momkallie (Momkallie) on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 12:59 am: Edit

Musicaltheatermom:

If you are looking for a combination of legit vocal training and the ability to perform in both opera and musical theater, then you must check out Oklahoma City University. One of a few universities that can boast musical theater performers (Kristen Chenowerth) and opera performers (Leona Mitchell - 15 years Met, Chris Merrill). Well, that's what my brochure says.

Feel free to read my posts above. We saw a scaled down, small theater version of "Cosi" which featured many musical theater performers as leads and they had incredible voices. It seems that students cross over there quite frequently. Plus, we loved the school!

By Noshiksagoddess (Noshiksagoddess) on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 03:44 am: Edit

Anyone auditioned for NYU or CMU yet? I just scheduled mine for February...eeek!

By Musicalthtrmom (Musicalthtrmom) on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 08:15 am: Edit

Momkallie....Thanks for the recommendation. Oklahoma City U is on our list of schools to visit this spring....I have noticed the same opportunities for Opera and Musical Theater from the posts here and their website. I look forward to going there from the good feedback you all have had from visits there. We just want to find as many schools as we can that offer this possibility. It is sooooo selective out there....want to find as many alternatives as we can. Do you know how many students Ok City U takes each year into their Musical Theater program? Thanks!

By Momkallie (Momkallie) on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 12:35 am: Edit

Hi musicaltheatermom!

When I asked the dean of the music school (he was walking around answering questions on audition day), he said that for the incoming fall of 04, they were only taking 25 to 30 vocalists (both musical theater and opera, which are two seperate degrees). He said that was a large number for them cause they are opening their new school within the year. It's a 10 million dollar facility that looks huuuuuge! You can get info at their web site - www.youatocu.com.

Good luck on your searches!

By Cluelessmc2 (Cluelessmc2) on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 04:19 pm: Edit

Question for those of you who have been at auditions already. How many kids were auditioning? Do you see the same people at auditions at different schools? What % male % female?

I keep reading that most of the schools take only 15 - 30 students, yet 200 - 300 kids audition.

In your opinion are most of the kids auditioning truly prepared or does it seem like some did it on a whim without much thought. The reason I ask this is that so many of the schools give a list of "DON'TS" that are so obvious I get the feeling many aren't prepared.
I know the last show audition my son went to he said if he heard, "All That Jazz" one more time he was going to strangle somebody.

Thanks - Jenifer

By Mtmommy (Mtmommy) on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 06:52 pm: Edit

Thanks for the response to my last post. I'm also curious about the same thing Cluelessmc2 is--the #s seems off, considering that a lot of people get into several programs. Wouldn't prepared students know that "All That Jazz" is too popular right now?

My daughter is in 10th grade, and I have been looking over information on the colleges and have some questions. My daughter emailed OCU about what courses to take in high school and was told not to take too many performing arts courses, but to stock up on more academic courses. I am hoping someone has some answers. As you know, it's so hard to go heavy on the academics in high school and keep up training, rehearsals, and performances. Doesn't this frustrate anyone else?
1) How much foreign language did you do in high school to get in your school? My daughter is doing sign language. She's planning on doing one year of college (which is at least two years of high school credit). Is that enough? Do you know anyone who did ASL instead of Spanish or French?
2) How much math and science did you do? My daughter hates her math and science classes and agonizes over them. How much is enough without doing too much of these? (In a perfect world, she could go heavy on everything, but she's only one person . . .)
3) Did the schools you got into (or didn't) appear to consider the AP courses highly? Or did it not really matter in the end? My older child is in college right now (not MT), and we discovered that since he went to a California state university and not a big bad UC that his AP courses were not even looked at.
4) She's taking advanced drama and advanced dance, but can't fit show choir into her schedule at school. Will this matter in the long run if she keeps up her private voice training, does vocal competitions, and performs in musicals?
Thanks a lot!!

By Laurenz (Laurenz) on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 09:40 pm: Edit

mtmommy,

AP classes count toward the academic requirements in mt programs in a liberal arts college, such as Emerson in Boston. My son is a freshman MT major there and has been awarded 12 credits for his AP classes and 6 years of French towards his degree - he will not graduate early but he will use the slots to take other classes of interest to him.

Where grades really count is in merit scholarship/grant money awarded by the schools. They award a lot more money for academic excellence than for performance/talent. We found this to be the case at all 9 schools to which our son applied. He is in the honors program at Emerson and was awarded a large merit scholarship because of his academic talents. He was accepted into the MT program because of his performance talents.

I believe that it is important to keep the quality of the high school classes high, and to get good grades in these classes. Getting a high SAT score doesn't hurt either. Unless, of course, you don't need the merit scholarships.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

By Sheeprun (Sheeprun) on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 10:55 pm: Edit

Continued at Colleges for Musical Theater Major --- Part 6.

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