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Is it really worth your money to attend an Ivy League school for "undergrad" when you can get great education at other places?
I, personally, think that it's smarter to go to an Ivy for grad school; especially if money matters which does to many. Getting into a graduate school pretty much all depends on you and how you do in undergrad, not the school itself.

By Arthurd (Arthurd) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 10:37 am: Edit

Nerdboy, I think you've answered your own question. I couldn't have said it better, myself. I wouldn't dare go to an Ivy for undergraduate education.

By Progex (Progex) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 10:41 am: Edit

Agreed, only reason I'd go is for the prestige, of course.

By Soulofheaven8 (Soulofheaven8) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 11:27 am: Edit

Yeah, but think about it, it is much easier to get into an Ivy graduate school if you attended Ivy undergraduate in the first place.

By Collegy (Collegy) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 01:49 pm: Edit

I agree with Nerdboy. It doesn't really matter where you go for undergrad. It's all about how well you do on your test (MCAT or LSAT...), your GPA, and EC's.

By Apguy (Apguy) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 01:35 am: Edit

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It doesn't really matter where you go for undergrad. It's all about how well you do on your test (MCAT or LSAT...), your GPA, and EC's.

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University of California - Berkeley 48

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University of California - Los Angeles 33

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University of Virginia 22

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University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill 11

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University of Illinois - Urbana 11

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SUNY at Binghamton 4

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University of Colorado - Boulder 6

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Yale University 101

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Harvard University 189

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By Sirmoreau (Sirmoreau) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 01:55 am: Edit

APguy - take the average LSAT score from Yale and the Average LSAT score from Berkeley, then your stats will be worthwhile.

By Apguy (Apguy) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 04:06 am: Edit

Common sense would tell you Berkeley's average LSAT score will of course be lower if they are sending HALF the amount of students than Yale.

And trying to rub that data from HLS off as something that is not "worthwhile" is idiotic. If you go to a school that sends two kids to HLS a year versus a school that sends a hundred kids to HLS you can get a better idea for how your undergraduate law department will look to the eyes of an admissions officer at the grad school.

By Sirmoreau (Sirmoreau) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 04:51 am: Edit

Still man as long as you've got the LSAT scores, thats all that will matter, they'll see you as someone coming from adverse conditions and still being very smart. Besides, most of those kids from the UC schools can also go to Boalt, which is a very fine law school.

By Apguy (Apguy) on Monday, July 21, 2003 - 05:11 am: Edit

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they'll see you as someone coming from adverse conditions and still being very smart.

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By Muzicgal04 (Muzicgal04) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 02:19 pm: Edit

Don't any of you realize the amount of debt you will be in if you go to an Ivy and then an Ivy grad school? The only thing your employer will look at is grad school, which is primarily dependent on GPA and the LSAT. I personally am looking at programs like Michigan Honors or Macalester, where I will spend about 25k instead of 40k per year, so I won't emerge totally in debt. Also, I have a better chance of earning higher grades than I would at Swarthmore or Harvard, and my grade on the LSAT will be based upon my study, not the name of the college I went to. Therefore, I don't think Ivys are worth it for undergrad

By Serene (Serene) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Muzicgal: I'm going to an Ivy League school. I think I'll spend about 16k a year thanks to finaid. Isn't that better than Michigan? =)

By Apguy (Apguy) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 03:17 pm: Edit

Muzicgal04-

Ever heard of financial aid? Thanks to Harvard's huge endowment and their position as richest school in the country they boast being able to provide nearly 100% of a family's financial need. My sibling is going to a top20 school and is only paying $12,000 for the first year because of the financial aid. State schools aren't able to provide such money as they are being fed one-millionth that amount of money from the state.

The LSAT is not dependent only on your own study.

And going to a school where it is easier to get better grades is meaningless. Under your logic if I took all easy, remedial classes and got an A in them it would be worth more than a B in an AP course. It's obviously not and that is why a student from Andover (the country's best private school) who is ranked 43rd in their class with a 3.3. GPA can still get into Yale. Adcoms don't give preferential treatment to students who got their grades easier. That's just common sense. A grade which took less to earn does not mean nearly as much.

And you should know that Macalester students often complain about the harsh grading at the school, so if anything there would be grade DEflation. So you might have to earn your grades as hard as a student from Harvard, the only difference is you will not be getting nearly enough recognition for it. (sarcasm: ) It's a win-win situation!

And you say grad school is the important thing. You are right. Macalester's grad school placement (in terms of numbers AND OR percentages) is still lower than Harvard or Yale. As another user on this board noted, 90% of Harvard pre-law students get into a first or second tier school. That is not the case with Macalester. And if you want to look at numbers, for whatever relevance here you are:

Yale students going to Harvard Law: 101

Macalester students going to Harvard Law: 3

(Source: http://www.law.harvard.edu/Admissions/JD_Admissions/colleges.html)

Macalester may be able to put a lot of students into law schools, but not nearly as many "top" grad school's as an ivy league can. And you agree that grad school is what counts. There is also another user here who worked at a law school that recommends going to the best school you can for graduate school in law as it WILL have a difference in your career (as others also agreed as it seems you do too when you say "grad school" is what matters). Therfore, PLACEMENT into these graduate schools is a huge factor you should consider.

Considering these facts, I think you should draw your own conclusions of which school will be better.

By Sirmoreau (Sirmoreau) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 05:11 pm: Edit

You sound like Harvard's spokes-person.

By Serene (Serene) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 05:28 pm: Edit

Sirmoreau: Well.. maybe you should accept that Harvard's spokesperson isn't bragging about his school without any evidence to fall back on.

By Sirmoreau (Sirmoreau) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 05:56 pm: Edit

The humor in that comment was the fact he doesn't even go to HARVARD! What if he doesn't get into Harvard Law . Just like the million of other kids who dream of it.

By Apguy (Apguy) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 08:29 pm: Edit

I don't plan on going actually. But that doesn't make what I posted any less true. And if I'm Harvard's spokesperson you would be Calpoly's president.

By Sirmoreau (Sirmoreau) on Tuesday, July 22, 2003 - 09:19 pm: Edit

okay, okay you got me there. I'm not even sure i'll get in at Cal Poly they only have a 46% acceptance rate. They get something like 40,000 applicants which has doubled in the last 8 years. Why don't you plan on going to HLS someday? I think you should and you'll make it.

By Sar (Sar) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 12:20 am: Edit

Shouldn't we also take into account the fact that some students who don't attend ivy undergrad schools might simply not want to attend ivy grad schools? Different people have different priorities... not everybody "dreams" of graduating from an ivy, even if they want money.

By Serene (Serene) on Wednesday, July 23, 2003 - 01:10 am: Edit

Sar: you are right that ivy league isn't what everyone wants. But just because a student doesn't choose ivy doesn't give him the excuse to insinuate that those who go to ivy league are wasting $40k a year since *sarcastically* we all know undergrad education is useless.

By Fonzie (Fonzie) on Saturday, August 16, 2003 - 05:29 am: Edit

to the person who argued Harvard vs Macalester.

Ap guy, you have problems with that arg

Mac is MUCH smaller thus less people going into law careers. Furthur people who like those LACs might not want to go to harvard or other "big name" schools. THey might like a specific program somewhere else.