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What do all of you think would be the best choice for me as a pre-med student beginning in fall '04, Cornell or Johns Hopkins? Both have excellent science programs and both also have world-renowned medical schools, but they are both in *very* different environments. Please, if you could, tell me about the differences in class structure, work load, social life, religious (Jewish) life, etc.

By the way, my stats are:

Weighted GPA: 5.68/5.00
Class rank: 2/circa 240
SAT I: 1490 (690 M/800 V)
SAT II: Not taken yet
APs: Junior year--AP Biology (5), AP Calculus AB (3, [long story; new math teacher who didn't know how to prepare us properly for the exam and taught us mostly BC instead of AB by mistake, got a 97 in the class though]), Psychology (5)
Next (senior) year--AP Chemistry, AP Calculus BC, AP Physics B, AP Spanish (my school goes by block scheduling so there's not enough time available to take more than 5 AP classes at the most, and my school is absolutely *horrible* about independent study).
EC: Key Club (Editor); NHS; Key player in the Drama Club; fledgling published author and playwright; over 300 volunteer hours, etc.

Also, if there are any other schools you think I may be suited for, I welcome the advice. Thank you very much!

By Perfection101 (Perfection101) on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Neither of these schools is a superb undergraduate powerhouse (while jhu is known for its med school). Northwestern, University of Pennsylvania, and Harvard are the best undergrad programs for pre-med. Their graduates have the highest rates of entry into med schools in the country. I think that you could get into these schools with good recs and essays.

By Sony (Sony) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 01:00 am: Edit

According to The Gourman Report:

The pre-med rankings:
1)Harvard
2)JHU
3)Yale
4)Cornell
5)Berkeley

Perfection101 is wrong; NW and upenn do not have great premed programs, unless you get into their BS/MD programs, which are highly competitive. For regular pre-med, the Gourman report ranking is very accurate. Doing well from Cornell or JHU as a premed student will get you into any med school in the country. The catch is that both schools are extremely competitive in premed, so you have to know your ••••. As a side note, Harvard med school gives very high preference to Cornell premed students because they have an excellent track record. Cornell is known for working its students to the extreme. For the past three years, Harvard med school's valedictorians were Cornell premed students. The top students at Harvard med school consistently come from the following schools: mit, caltech, harvard, and cornell.

By Sony (Sony) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 01:24 am: Edit

Oh yea...in my opinion, you should go to Cornell.
I forgot to add what school I would choose in the last post.

Here are some reasons:

1) JHU is very big on Grad school research; they do not focus as much on undergrad research. Cornell probably has the best undergrad research opportunities in the Ivy league. If you are among the elite applicants (top 60), you can be accepted to Cornell's presidential research scholars program, which is highly regarded. It is their way of attracting the top applicants. A lot of people give up going to Harvard and other elite schools to be part of this program.

2) It is in the Ivy league. Its reputation score (US news) is consistently among the top 10. The only schools in the ivy league that rank above Cornell in terms of the reputation score are Harvard, Yale, Princeton.

3) Just in case you decide to back out of medicine, Cornell will provide you with several more opportunities. You can do law, business, basically anything you want. Cornell's grad schools are in the top 15 in every field; usually among the top 10. JHU is only known for their amazing med school and they will not provide you with many options.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 11:42 am: Edit

My first choice is Cornell and my intended major is biology/pre-med!! YAY!!!!!!!!

By Jrc007 (Jrc007) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 01:29 pm: Edit

Sunshine916, Did you already get in there, or are you a rising senior like me?

What are your SAT I scores, by the way, if your first choice is Cornell? I'll bet they're way better than mine!

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 06:04 pm: Edit

Jrc007-

im a rising senior terrified of the admissions process, and i saw your SAT scores in the Cornell board and they are better than mine. i wouldnt take them again if i were you. too big of a chance they may go down...don't worry though, a lot of the people i know who got into Cornell had under 1400's. they distinguished themselves by being nice people who worked hard and had a passion for something.

By Jrc007 (Jrc007) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 07:56 pm: Edit

Sunshine916, I do see that the math 25/75 percentile starts at 660 on the website and I only have a 690! I know that's going to hurt me and that's what I'm worried about. If it's any consolation, I'm more nervous about applying than anybody. The thought never leaves my mind all day, especially now that it's summer and I don't have anything better to do! Anyway, I wish you the best of luck on getting in, and hopefully I'll get in too.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 11:44 pm: Edit

yeah and their verbal starts at 620 and i have a 640!!!!!!! LOL.

i think we are equally screwed. unfortunately, SAT scores are based a LOT on luck. like i took PSAT's and got 70V, took 4 consecutive practice Real SAT's and consistently got high 600's/low 700s...then boom bam bang 640!

FORTUNATELY, college admissions isnt all about scores and numbers. i try to tell myself that every day.

im really nervous too. do you know what school you are applying to within cornell? CALS or CAS??? are you in-state or out-of-state?

i really want to apply to CALS, but because they are forced to take 75% of their students from NY since its public, we are left with 25% of the spots (approx 200) left for THE REST OF THE WORLD. so ummm...bad chances. i was thinking about sacrificing CALS where i think i would belong, and applying to CAS where i would have a *slightly* better chance of getting in. I suppose etiher would be okay. I'm still not sure yet.

Cornell has been my dream since 7th grade and i've always been confident about it...til now. now i have nightmares every week about getting my rejection letter. I'm soooo scared! and my parents wont even let me apply ED! Good luck!!

By Jrc007 (Jrc007) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 10:42 am: Edit

Keep your spirits up! I'm sure that your 640 will be just fine (the 690 on the other hand, hmmm...) Anyway, it just seems to me that most schools have higher math averages than verbal averages, and Cornell is no exception. That's why I'm so worried about the 110 point difference between my math and verbal scores.

For some reason, I always seem to do poorly on math tests administered by the College Board. I got a 690 on the math section of the SAT and a 3 on the AP Calculus AB exam. That's actually pretty ironic, since math is my best subject in school. I got a 97 for the year in the actual AP Calculus AB class and I've never gotten below like a 95 in math ever, so I really can't figure out why those College Board math tests daunt me so much.

I want to apply to CAS, as I want to major in microbiology/bacteriology or biochemistry in keeping with my pre-med mindeset (I want to, hopefully, be an infectious disease physician.)

I go to a small public school and, to my knowledge, only a few people have made it into Princeton and Harvard from my school. I've never heard of anybody making it into Cornell, so I'm pretty nervous.

I've always liked Cornell, but Yale has always been my dream. I've always been captivated by its grandeur and its status (the wrong reasons, I know) and when I realized that my chances there were slim and they weren't as good for biology as Cornell was anyway, I decided that Cornell would be a better choice for me. I want a relatively rural setting (I come from the dredges of suburbia, so I want someplace with limited strip malls and housing developments) and Upstate New York certainly is beautiful. I'd say Cornell had the most beautiful setting of any Ivy League, plus their sciences are the best of the Ivies.

I'm sure you'll be just fine. Good luck to you too :-)!

By Jrc007 (Jrc007) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 11:54 am: Edit

Sunshine916:

I forgot to add that I'm from out-of-state (New Jersey).

By the way, what was your math SAT I score?

By Perfection101 (Perfection101) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 04:14 pm: Edit

SONY is very wrong on this topic. The Gourman report is not as credible a sourse as the US News and World Report's rankings as delineated by this quote from College Confidential.
College Confidential Comments: Seemingly objective, quantitative rankings displayed by the Gourman report can be altered dramatically by changing the weights of individual factors. In addition, many issues, like quality of teaching, are difficult to translate into numbers that can be compared across many schools. Gourman's rankings are further complicated by an opaque methodology that produces numeric results without the detailed backup data.

U.S. News ranked Northwestern's chemistry undergrad number one over Cal Tech and Stanford. The University of Pennsylvania and Northwestern have higher admit rates than any of the aforementioned schools that Sony puts out (Cornell and Berkeley most notably). Those schools are way out of the loop in pre med.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 04:27 pm: Edit

Jrc007-

my math score is 800, so that brings me to a grand total of 1440. i will be retaking in october to try to bring my verbal score near or above 700 just so i can be happy with myself (lol)

i am the same way that you are with opinions of Cornell and Yale. One of my friend's brothers graduated and went to Yale for undergrad, and will be enrolling at Harvard Med School this fall. Thats like a dream come true. so amazing,but so out of my reach! he graduated valedictorian with a 1580 SAT.

i know 3 kids at my school for sure who have gotten into Cornell. one is the son of my dad's co-worker. he is a super nice guy, asian (indian), smart (valedictorian) with a 1560 majoring in Bio/Pre-Med at CAS. Im not sure about anyone else's stats but they were fairly high i am assuming. i know someone else who got into engineering with a 1600 SAT, valedictorian, 24 college credits at a local CC (dont as me how), but had NO EC's. interesting...

i come from a fairly large public high school (3rd largest in the state.) we are well-known in the state for having some extremely smart kids, but we also have a lot of dumb ones, which is why our average SAT score hovers around 1000+ However, we have definitely had a few Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Duke, UVA, UNC-Chapel Hill, Dartmouth, Penn admits in teh past 5 years so things are looking good!

i have a 4.0/4.6 GPA, ranked 2-3/540, and fairly involved. i just dont know if its good enough for Cornell or Yale.

I fell in love with Cornell the first time i went there (7th grade). My parent's friends live right by Ithaca and i am friends with their kids and have spent a month there for the past few summers, so i had to pleasure of taking long jogs by the scenery. its so pretty there. i also used to be a new yorker (upstate, by lake george) so i always wanted to go back for college. i have heard that cornell pre-med students are competitive for awesome med schools like Harvard or JHU and its a great environment. I have spent so many summers around there and i definitely see myself fitting in really well.

Anyways, best of luck and keep in touch through CC or AIM or Email somehow! I'll want to know if you get in!

By Jrc007 (Jrc007) on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 04:55 pm: Edit

Thank you all very much for all of your help!

By Sony (Sony) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 01:59 pm: Edit

Perfection101, if you choose to accept the US News rankings, you should to be willing to accept other rankings. The truth of the matter is that these rankings do not mean much in the real world. They are simply marketing ploys, but by your postings I can tell that you will probably not understand that.

1)Us News does not rank undergrad chemistry. Please post a link if you have one.

2) Admit. rate to med school is a percentage. (People accepted/People applying). As the number of people applying increases, the admit. rate goes down. Cornell has a large undergrad student body and a large number of students apply to med school. This leads to a lower admit. rate then some other schools. It still maintains (on average) an admit. rate of about 85%. MIT also has an admit. rate (on average) of about 85%. Upenn and NW may have done very well last year in terms of admit. rate, but a lot less people applied than cornell.

3)I have many doctors in my family and I know several people who are doing premed. I will also be doing premed at Harvard. My knowledge on this topic is the product of several years of research. Upenn's biology dept. is a joke. They rank in the 40s for grad Bio and up until last year, they didn't even have a proper dept for undergrad bio. NW is nothing special either.

The five schools listed by the Gourman report are the best for premed. I don't care what Perfection101 says. JRC007, only look at those schools and also consider MIT, caltech, Princeton, and stanford. These four schools are much stronger for graduate level biology, but their premed programs are quite strong also. Harvard, jhu, yale, cornell, and berkeley will provide the best undergrad level bio/premed. I only applied to these 5 schools. I was deferred by cornell and yale. I accepted to the other three.

best of luck JRC.

By Sunshine916 (Sunshine916) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 02:03 pm: Edit

whoa how did you NOT get into Cornell but get into Harvard and MIT???

Cornell admissions is crazy

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 02:55 pm: Edit

Yep. That is very weird.

By Jrc007 (Jrc007) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 03:24 pm: Edit

Now I'm really in trouble! If you didn't get into Cornell but you did to HARVARD AND MIT, I may as well not even apply!

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 04:45 pm: Edit

You guys are going paranoid. It's usually easier to get into Cornell than it is Harvard. Maybe Cornell rejected him because they knew he was way up there and probably would've turned them down anyways (they can kinda tell by the effort you put into the essay etc...). It's the same game they play at UCLA and countless other schools etc... Reject people you know won't go to your school anyways to get the acceptance %s down thus raising it's ranks in whatever guides. It is a risky game, but how else do you explain these occurances?

Either that, or the applicant is not what this school is looking for. The old "you're only academically smart, we want athletes or minorities" speech, or something of the like. There are so many reasons! Apply to the schools you want, these are isolated cases.

By Bbalin (Bbalin) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Sony:
JHU is only known for med school and willl not provide you with many other options? How about top ten programs in molecular biology, biomedical engineering, international studies, mechanical engineering, and classics, and a system that lets you seemlessly transfer between the schools of Arts and Sciences and Engineering?

By Perfection101 (Perfection101) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 07:52 pm: Edit

Sony, your pathetic ranting about the superiority of Cornell makes me question if you are in fact a student there. First of all, the Gourman Report is a joke. It was published back in 1997, and who knows what has happened since then. Certainly the Gourman report favors the larger universities, because if you even check out some examples, you see Cornell up in the rankings along with UT Austin and the other mammoth universities that almost no one would associate with prestige. University of Pennsylvania, a better IVY by admissions and every other criterion and Northwestern are far superior to Cornell, Berkeley, and JHU. Let's face it, JHU has a good med schol, but its undergrad programs are far below the top schools. Berkeley is a public school that is again, huge. I have a friend who went to school there two years ago and hated the impersonal qualities of the undergrad programs that are ignored to the max. Johns Hopkins has taken a nose dive in terms of its undergrad program. Back in 1997 it might have had some superb programs, but its med school pulls it through in every regard. By the way, there is not a higher admissions rate into their fantastic med school (which I admit is great) if you go to their school as an undergraduate. What you people should be looking at is a rennaisance learning environment that will mold you into better people on several fronts. Oh, and Sony's explanation of how since Cornell has more applicants and it is diluting the admission to med schools is bogus. Even though your contention has nothing to do with anyting, it can actually be used to dissuade people from attending Cornell if your guess is correct.

By Sony (Sony) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 10:05 pm: Edit

Wow, this is the biggest load of bull i've heard for a while. Yes, I met a lot of people like you in high school. Your type come and go. Don't worry about it. You have some unusual complex about the college system. Perhaps you were rejected from some elite schools. I already wrote that I was rejected from Cornell and Yale and will be attending Harvard. I don't really care what you say about Cornell. I'm going to the best school in the world. Your pointless ranting will not get you into Harvard...haha...you need some structure in your argument. I think all of the schools we're talking about are great. We're basically just going through the top 15 schools and trying to figure out which ones are the best. This is a waste of time. If you're still in high school (which seems to be the case from your simple ideas) don't waste your time in this stupid board. I never did. I'm just here because i'm done with all this •••• and i love to see people like you worrying about "dream schools." It's funny that i'll be living someone's dream, perhaps even yours. best of luck to you all.

By Cornellian07 (Cornellian07) on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:40 pm: Edit

Y'all gotta chiiiiiiiiiiiiiiill.

By Perfection101 (Perfection101) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 04:50 pm: Edit

I was rejected from Princeton and MIT, waitlisted at Yale. Accepted: Harvard, Columbia, Northwestern (HPME), and Brown (PLME). I turned down Harvard by the way. Just didn't want the pretentious attitude that eminates from people like SONY. I couldn't pass up HPME (the most prestigious fast track to med school) or the experience of being around people interested in a wide array of fields. I visited all of the places that I applied and found the people at Northwestern to be the most down to earth. I want to end my feud with SONY, however, and let bygones be bygones.

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 06:43 pm: Edit

Perfection101,

I thought Brown's PLME was better... Can you give me more info on the differences and similarities between Brown's PLME and NW's HPME, and what's the reason for choosing HPME over PLME? Does NW have better equipment or something? That would be much appreciated.

By Perfection101 (Perfection101) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 07:16 pm: Edit

Brown's med school is ranked very low, thats the only reason they have the PLME program, whereas Rice(Baylor) and HPME (Feinberg) have med schools in the top 20. Do not be fooled by Brown's ivy label, becuase it is not that prestigious of a degree once you come out of there. Plus, the average HPME student is leagues ahead of the PLME student. We're talking average SATs of over 1560 SAT I. MAth iic 770, Writing 780, Chemistry 790, Biology 790. There really is no comparison Tuannguyen. Just check out the stats on the respective school's website.

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 07:29 pm: Edit

No, other than the stats, what are the other differences that would make one program better than the other? Do they study different material, go at different speeds, different equipment, better prof., better funding etc... From the knowledge i have of them RIGHT NOW, i seriously can't see the difference. Since you seem to have already done some research, share the wisedom (OR are saying there is no difference except for stats of the students?)...

By Perfection101 (Perfection101) on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 08:27 pm: Edit

Well, the med school that we are talking about (which would include the profs and the equipment) are much better at Northwestern's Feinberg Medical School. Brown's sucks. So, yeah you can quantifiably show that HPME is much more superior. Plus, residencies know this and look at the programs much differently in evaluating students.

By Sony (Sony) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 12:35 am: Edit

Perfection101, you're done. I finally figured out that you're lying about everything. I don't know why I didn't see it before. You left a trail my friend and now you're caught...you posted too many times on pre-med topics...you should be more careful. Now let me start (I will use stars to point out phrases):

Topic: What are my chances?
Thread name: UCLA, UCB, Ivy, Med Schools
Date:July 6th
Perfection101 writes: ***Well, you don't really stand a chance at the MD programs like HPME (Northwestern), UPENN, etc. simply because I was rejected with a 1570 SATI, SAT II - 780 (IIc), 800 (Writing), 800 (Chemistry), 5 APs with a score of 5 and Valedictorian.***

As for the Ivies and regular programs at Northwestern, Stanford, etc. you may have a shot if your recs and essays are nearly perfect.

END OF MESSAGE

Explaination: In this message Perfection101 writes that he was rejected from NW's HPME and UPenn.

--------------------------------------------------

Topic: College search and selection
Thread name: Cornell vs. JHU for pre-med
Date: July 5th-July 7th
Explaination: (Summary) Perfection101 and Sony argue about pre-med programs. Sony is arguing that JHU, cornell, berkeley are good programs. Perfection101 is saying that NW and upenn are better. On july 7th, Sony says that he will be attending harvard and that he was rejected from cornell and yale. Things are starting to heat up because Sony is being cocky about harvard and making fun of Perfection101 for comparing harvard to NW.

-------------------------------------------------

Topic: What are my chances?
Thread name: Schools for pre-med
Date: July 7th-8th
Explaination: (summary) Prefection101 and Sony go back and forth arguing. They send several posts and the argument is heating up. Perfection101 continues to defend NW and Sony defends Harvard.

-------------------------------------------------
Topic: College search and selection
Thread name: Cornell vs. JHU for pre-med
Date:July 8th
Perfection101 writes: ***I was rejected from Princeton and MIT, waitlisted at Yale. Accepted: Harvard, Columbia, Northwestern (HPME), and Brown (PLME). I turned down Harvard by the way.*** Just didn't want the pretentious attitude that eminates from people like SONY. I couldn't pass up HPME (the most prestigious fast track to med school) or the experience of being around people interested in a wide array of fields. I visited all of the places that I applied and found the people at Northwestern to be the most down to earth. I want to end my feud with SONY, however, and let bygones be bygones.

END OF MESSAGE

Explaination: Perfection101 claims that he was accepted to harvard, columbia, NW Hpme, and Brown PLME. This claim is made after the argument is heating up in "Schools for pre-med".

-------------------------------------------------

Topic: What are my chances?
Thread name: UCLA, UCB, Ivy, Med Schools
Date:July 9th
Perfection101 writes: I'm sorry, I posted that I didn't make it into a med program. ***I was rejected from PLME at Brown, but made it into the HPME at Northwestern.*** Isn't that weird? The HPME is the hardest fast track to get into, so I would have figured they would have taken me. ***I also got into Harvard, but I turned them down in favor of the HPME program.***

END OF MESSAGE

Explaination: This is where we see clear evidence of lying and nervousness. Perfection101 now claims that he was accepted to both NW HPME and rejected from Brown PLME. Previously, on July 6th, in the first post (which was before he met Sony) Perfection101 claimed that he was rejected from NW's HPME. Also prevously, On July 8th, Perfection101 claimed that he was accepted to Brown PLME, NW's HPME, and Harvard. On July 9th he is now correcting himself in the thread ("UCLA, UCB, Ivy, Med Schools") after a long time, out of no where, as if he is trying to cover up something. He still messes up. He is trying to cover his tracks. He said earlier that he was rejected from NW; then he told Sony that he was accepted to NW, Brown, and Harvard; then he goes back and says that he was rejected from Brown, but accepted from NW.

------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry Perfection101...you left too many lies and couldn't cover yourself up depite the futile attempt on July 9th. From all the evidence, I can conclude that you were rejected from NW's HPME, Brown's PLME, and Harvard. I've noticed that you have been annoying other people by slandering schools like Cornell, Berkeley, and now Harvard. The LIES are done my friend. I hate people like you. Why do you lie about college? It means very little in life. Life and college are what you make of it my friend. You have disgraced yourself by lying about such petty matters. Go kill yourself for trying to make other people feel bad by acting superior. Even the NW people should be pissed at this guy for tainting their name. Perfection101, I suggest that you should change your username now if you want to have any credibility on Collegeconfidential. Most of all: STOP LYING. ARE YOU REALLY THAT PATHETIC, YOU LOSER!!!

P.S. Never mess with a Harvard man

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 12:52 am: Edit

0wnt to the highest degree!

I would love to see if Perfection tries to tap dance out of this one...

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 01:26 am: Edit

Wow, if Perfection wasn't accepted into NW's HPME, then why did he defend it with such rigor? There are so many weird people in this world...

By Obh100 (Obh100) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 04:14 am: Edit

Wow, I'm ashamed to be going to a school with Perfection, if he's even going to Northwestern...

By Cfl (Cfl) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 07:25 pm: Edit

hmm... i thought something was funny when i didn't see his name or e-mail included on the list of '10 HPME students...

By O71394658 (O71394658) on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 08:31 pm: Edit

Notice he hasn't responded yet.

By Annejane07 (Annejane07) on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 04:19 pm: Edit

It's kind of funny, because one of you will probably think that I'm perfection101 or something. Anyway... If college really isn't that important, why do you care if someone smashes your school like that, Sony? Okay. So you go to Harvard and you know it. If it's the "best school in the world" why do you feel the need to push it in perfection101's face? Besides, if perfection101 was the person who started the whole "smashing" of your beloved Harvard, why couldn't you be the bigger person and just take pity, instead of making yourself look like an inhumane braggart (yet intelligent) person? perfection101 also made a good point; you only make other people not want to go to Harvard because they don't want to associate with people like you. It's a shame; I used to be quite fond of Harvard.

So yes- congratulations. You got into Harvard and someone else didn't and perfection101 is a big liar. You said it yourself! While college can be a really great experience, college means little in life - so why perpetuate the argument more than you already have? Mess with a "Harvard man"? I'm too disgusted...

P.S. If you think my feeling disgusted is somehow invalid, then please refer to your "go kill yourself" comment and maybe you'll see just how disgusting you are.

By Ddanthro (Ddanthro) on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 08:05 am: Edit

Is this the level of civility that people have fallen into? All of the schools mentioned are very good schools for pre-med. I teach at Northwestern and I graduated from Cornell, among other places. Let me say that both are excellent schools. Cornell, however, is a haven for pre-meds. The academic pressure is extreme! And perhaps this explains why Cornell has a high suicide rate. Biology is one of the largest undergraduate majors; most of Cornell's programs are in the top 10. Berkeley, JHU, and the other schools mentioned too are academically rigorous.

I love Northwestern. I love Cornell. The students I teach at Northwestern are very good! They are not, however, as competitive as the students I encountered when I was at Cornell.
The sciences here at Northwestern are indeed very strong, and a degree from Northwestern will serve one well when it comes time to apply to medical school. Northwestern's students do quite well in the graduate school pipeline. The premed program here is much smaller than it is at Cornell, Harvard, Berkeley, and certainly JHU. Again, Northwestern is a great school, and I love to teach here, but the premed competition and numbers do not exist like they do at these other places. Of course, I can say the same thing about Princeton. Princeton is one of the most selective schools, with approximately 11% of its undergraduate applicants being admitted. But the premed competition that one finds at Harvard and Cornell and the other schools I mentioned does not exist at Princeton. I would say the fact that there are fewer premed students helps keep down what would otherwise be a place where premed competition and success are at insane levels. And Princeton's has a smaller student population overall.