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I think there will always be a lifelong debate over which school is better, Cambridge or Oxford. The argument goes like this: Oxford is more famous and has more prestige, but Cambridge is prettier and is ranked better. Which is really the better world institution? Is Oxford really the best,or has Cambridge taken the title?

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 08:27 pm: Edit

I am really looking for any feedback here, I think it is much more helpful to have people who have unbiased, uninfluenced opinions. Normally, I welcome people who know a lot about this subject as well!

By Yeah10 (Yeah10) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 08:30 pm: Edit

heres my opinion...you're gay.

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:19 pm: Edit

I'm a new user who just wants to have people answer his questions. I'm getting bored because no one will answer my questions! I'm not gay,but I know my message sounds gay, I just really want someone to answer the question. I thought that if I wrote a nice gratuitous letter, that more people would answer my question, so please answer it.

By Chrisd (Chrisd) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 10:22 pm: Edit

Slow down. This is not alwyas an active board; I've had posts go for months without responses. You may get more responses on the Princeton Review board--more quantity for sure, quality is another story.

Also, you might post your query under the section Individual Schools.

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 10:39 pm: Edit

Thanks a lot, Chrisd! I will look into the PR board! I will also be more patient.

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 05:17 pm: Edit

Why might it be that Cambridge is considered much better than Oxford in the UK, but Oxford is considered better throughout the world? Which of these has the better Classics program? Which of these is easier to get into? I hear that Oxford Classics need three AP's with 5,5,4 as scores, a 1350 SAT I, A's only in Classics, and a love for the subject. Is this true? What would happen if I only take 2 AP's?

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 09:46 pm: Edit

"Why might it be that Cambridge is considered much better than Oxford in the UK, but Oxford is considered better throughout the world?"

It's because people in the UK know better. :P (i'm kidding)

But seriously, people outside of the UK probably look only at prestige. Oxford has been around a bit longer and because of this probably is more famous. Cambridge is probably better in many aspects, but continually is overshadowed by Oxford in the international field just because it's not as famous.

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 10:05 pm: Edit

I can agree with that. I still am not sure which it would be better to go because part of going to school is prestige. When you're on a level of education like that, there isn't much difference between schools; therefore, you would go for prestige.

By Dream5 (Dream5) on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 11:09 pm: Edit

Cambridge is not as famous as Oxford?? lol

r u kidding me??

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 01:20 am: Edit

Dream5, I'm NOT kidding you at all.

I don't know where you are from, but i've talked to people who live in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam, South Africa, Canada, America etc (mostly relatives and friends who moved and currently live there)... Most of them know of Cambridge, but they know less about it then they do Oxford. They think Oxford is better, and that Cambridge is second tier compared to Oxford. So far, the only people that know Cambridge is on par with Oxford are from Vietnam and Canada.

I'm strictly talking about the general population here. Not the more educated few that would know more about colleges.

So there is no "lol" about it. It's true. You may know that Cambridge is just as good as Oxford and in many fields better. BUT that knowledge comes from your constant research into the subject, hence you are here! For people who DON'T research (most of the world) Oxford is above and beyond Cambridge; for those who know the truth, they are on par.

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 02:45 am: Edit

Very true Tuannquyen! However, in my paragraph above, I state and truly believe that prestige is what matters. It is the opinion of the people. Very few people would turn down Harvard for Princeton or Oxford for Cambridge. The academic rating may be given in the ratings themselves, but the overall rating (effect of the school in graduate's lives, the world, and world education) is judged by prestige. There is no doubt that Oxford is more prestigious than Cambridge, HYP, or any other university in the world. Oxford is the world's premier university.

By Dream5 (Dream5) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 03:02 am: Edit

Tuannguyen, I simply do not care about what uneducated people think.

University I would choose will be where I can be most comfortable at and where I can truly grow as a person, not where most would consider to be the first tier university.

I am living my life my way, as insipid as that sounds.

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 12:02 pm: Edit

That is very true Dream 5. Not only does your university need to be a place where you can grow, you need to really love it. I would not doubt this for a second. However, this conversation is about prestige and world ranking. We really can't discuss which university is personally better for each other, that is a personal decision.

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 12:36 pm: Edit

Dream5,

I never said someone should choose a school due to prestige or not! I was simply saying that Oxford is more famous than Cambridge! Is stating the truth a lie now? Are you trying to blame me for something i did not do? I never challenged what you are doing for choosing the university you liked. So don't try to make it sound like i did!

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 12:54 pm: Edit

Cambridge is a great university, a world-class university. No one is doubting the high status of Cambridge on the world spectrum. If Dream 5 would go to Cambridge over Oxford, that is great. The truth is that when you get to a level of world education like that, you are all on the same page. However, we are saying that of the world universities, Oxford looks better on the portfolio. It is the same relationship between Harvard and Princeton-Harvard looks better but Princeton is better.

By Cornellian07 (Cornellian07) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 01:17 pm: Edit

Why does it matter?

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 09:04 pm: Edit

You go to school to learn and to get a degree to take you through life. At all of those top schools you will learn, but being an Oxford grad may open more doors to you than Cambridge can.

By Dream5 (Dream5) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 09:30 pm: Edit

This became a cat fight somehow.

However, this is not any worse than comparing oxford and cambridge's "prestige."

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:21 pm: Edit

This is a very heated argument! However, Cambridge vs. Oxford is not at all a clear-cut situation- it can go either way. That's part of what makes this thread interesting. By the way, Oxford is and will always be the world's premier university. Cambridge is good, but Oxford always wins.

By Thedad (Thedad) on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 01:27 am: Edit

Have either of you guys seen the beer commercial where on side keeps yelling "Tastes great!" and the other side yells "Less filling!"?

But I digress. Or do I?

Best post in this thread goes to...[rips open envelope] Tuannguyen! Even though it goes against the spirit of the thread by being level-headed and factual, it wins on precisely those points.

The catfight between BadDream and PermanentlyDisorderedStress is harder to score.
Dream leads with his/her chin and is sometimes obnoxious but Psd makes the egregious but common mistake of confusing "prestige" with "best" and frames his/her argument in absolutist rhetoric.

It's just like US News and their bogus ratings...you can change which school is "best" by jiggering your criteria and doing so is a mug's game.

Still the ferocity with which the participants have approached this discussion give it a slight but non-zero chance of succeeding "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" as a hallmark of pointless discussion.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 10:22 am: Edit

If it ever comes to happen in your lives that it actually matters whether Cambridge or Oxford is the better of the two, please be sure to let me know.

----

Having always found intelligent women attractive, and then discovering that Olivia Williams had a degree in English Literature from Cambridge---it never occurred to me that she'd look any better if she had instead studied at Oxford...

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 01:11 pm: Edit

Morgantruce, that's a hard one to explain, but with that logic, Yale and Harvard would look as good as Oxbridge or Stanford. We know that they can't all be equal in standings. She looks good and she's smart, because she looks good, you really don't care to what degree of intelligence she is, you just want her to be smart. There is no doubt that either Oxford or Cambridge is superior to the other school. The question is, which one is superior? To answer that, you have to include many elements of the education, including prestige, academics, student-life, and alumni.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 02:10 pm: Edit

"We know that they can't all be equal in standings."

And why is that so?

What is going on in your mind that you are not willing to accept the fact that some things are just equal... or on the same page... why does there have to be some reason to rank one higher than another?

Isn't it a bit like Coke and Pepsi?

By Thedad (Thedad) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 02:34 pm: Edit

Moreover, is one institution going to be higher in all things? All things that are important to any given individual?

And do you believe that each relevant characterstic can be evaluated by purely objective criteria?

"Well, University A's English department is highly regarded but part of this is because of Professor Crankshaft and I don't care what awards the good professor has gotten, his scholarship asserting that Dryden's "Absalom and Achitophel" is influenced by the author's unusually intimate relationships with diseased sheep is pure bunkum and I therefore I downgrade the department on that basis." Multiply by opinions on the individual scholarship of hundreds of professors.

The ratings game, at least to this fine a degree, is a mug's game and holding to it is an untenable position.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 03:39 pm: Edit

...and the more time you spend debating its fine points, the more absurd you seem---especially to admissions people!

By Princess_Eab (Princess_Eab) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 12:37 pm: Edit

I think the argument about which Oxbridge is better is a bit like biking in circles....
there's a reason they're called "Oxbridge" jointly-- because they're more similar than different.
In UK tables, Cambridge comes top for teaching-- but obviously, Oxford is right behind, and it depends on which tables you look at as well. Subject-wise, Cambridge is best for English, and academically is known for it. However, Oxford is top for politics and other departments. Oxford may be better known generally but I think that especially in academia both are well-respected.
I'm going to Cambridge for postgraduate work (I went to undergrad in the US) because of its strong English program and friendlier feel.
Plus, who doesn't like punting? --Beth

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 09:57 pm: Edit

I would like to know whether Oxford has the better Classics program of the two. I am looking to applying and I want to know which univ. is harder to be admitted to for Classics, which colleges are hardest to be admitted to within the universities, and which colleges have the best Classics programs. I think that after 27 messages arguing, that we can decide that Oxford is more famous for its excellence (considered by many to be the world' best univ.), and that Cambridge is really the better school academically and having the prettier campus.

By Uncchlocalmayor (Uncchlocalmayor) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 09:43 am: Edit

blah, screw them both. i'm too stupid to get into either one. happy now?

By Princess_Eab (Princess_Eab) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 11:04 am: Edit

Pds112, from what I hear, both schools are looking to increase their Classics applications as this course of study was taken out of British schools entirely. Apparently Classics acceptances, at least at Cambridge, are up to 75% because fewer people want to study the topic. (compared to 12% acceptance for other depts.)
Are you undergrad or postgrad? that makes a difference too. I don't know much about classics but do know that medievalism, which I what I study, is very strong at Cambridge and in order for it to be it needs a strong Latin program as well.
Look up university tables by subject: easiest way to find out UK ratings. Go to www.guardian.co.uk and search "university league tables" or go to the Education section. Also, BBC's got some; also the Sunday Times, which is I think www.sundaytimes.co.uk. The worldwide Finacial Times (FT) has tables for the UK too. Look up by subject and it will tell you a bit about each program. good luck!

cheers, Beth

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 03:34 pm: Edit

Beth, I am looking for undergrad. I know the acceptance rates are high. I hope that they are higher for international students. I am leaning towards Oxford because I have read that they have the bigger and better Classics program. Also, in the U.S., Oxford is considered by many to be the world's best univ.. Oxford also, I think, has more of an impact on the entire world than Cambridge does. I am going to look at the sites you mentioned. Cambridge is very strong and a world leader, good luck!

By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Oxford also, I think, has more of an impact on the entire world than Cambridge does.

Why do you think this? Please elaborate.

By Princess_Eab (Princess_Eab) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 05:01 pm: Edit

Hey arealtexan.... I'm a real Texan.

...soon to be in the UK though!

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Thursday, June 19, 2003 - 05:07 pm: Edit

More people know about Oxford and its greatness, it is more famous. Therefore, that means that it must have more of a reach on the world than Cambridge. Cambridge is rated superior academically to Oxford, but Oxford has the fame which causes an impact. It is like Harvard and Princeton, Princeton is rated better but not many people would say that Princeton has more of an effect on the world. A lot of people in this thread have made an excellent point, academically Cambridge is better, and that is what matters. However, fame is good for something; fame is good for the power of the university and its prestige. That means that it is better for the univ., but not necessarily the student. If you are looking for fame and prestige, go to Oxford, if you are looking for real academics, go to Cambridge. It won't really matter that much degree wise, Oxford just gets more "Wow, Oxford"'s than Cambridge does. If that means anything to you then choose Oxford, otherwise go to Cambridge. I think that I am going to apply to Oxford because there is for me as an American, a certain nostalgia about Oxford and its history. Don't dis fame, it can get you somewhere because you certainly aren't an academic loser as an Oxonian, Oxford still has academic excellence in its students, even if Cambridge is better.

By Shelinda (Shelinda) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 12:43 pm: Edit

Frankly, it's not really worth worrying about which is "better" since no one's likely to change their opinion anyway.

By Londoner (Londoner) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 05:24 pm: Edit

Pds,

At Oxford, Classics is a four year course and you choose either Literae Humaniores (ive prob spelt that wrongly) I or LH II. I is for people who have studied Latin and/or Greek to a-level standard (if not sure if AP is equivalent here) and II is for people starting Latin/Greek from scratch. In both courses you have to fill history, philosophy and of course language requirements. I know that you can also study options such as politics within the constraints of the course.
I am not that sure about the Classics course at Cam, but i do know that its a three year course.
As to which one is 'better', it depends on what you're looking for. Hope this helps and if you have any questions on the interview process, essays, language tests please ask. I have a few friends who applied to Oxford for Classics and I myself applied to read Ancient and Modern History (some similarities!)
Good luck!

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Friday, June 20, 2003 - 09:21 pm: Edit

Thanks, Londoner. That does help. I just hope it is as easy to get in as people say it is because Oxford is a big, imposing, awe-striking name. As is Cambridge.

By Eri (Eri) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 12:50 am: Edit

Tell me why "gay" is used an an insult? I'm sure that's offensive to lots of people on this board and in your own personal lives. Carry on that kind of ignorance, go ahead, and see how much better the world gets.

What ever happened to consideration for others?

peace,
Erika

By Justplayin104 (Justplayin104) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 10:32 am: Edit

How do you go about applying to either Oxford or Cambridge for the Classics?

By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 12:52 pm: Edit

You contact UCAS (University & Colleges Admissions Service) and get an application from them. You also contact the college you are applying for and request the Oxford or Cambridge supplemental application. You then fill it out by the Oxbridge deadline - which is slightly earlier than the normal UCAS deadline.

More than likely you'll then be given an interview date by your prospective college. Depending on what college you've applied for you'll also have to submit school essays, take a test at interview or do what is called a 'preparatory study' at interview.

By Ivyman (Ivyman) on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 09:35 pm: Edit

They're both good schools. Here's a common way to discern and decide between the two. Oxford has always been famous for its humanities programs, and it is of course the oldest, having been around since 1096. Cambridge however has a very distinguished science faculty, including the Einstienesqe, world famous physicist - Stephen Hawking. So Oxford for Humanities, Cambridge for Science. Academically that is how I decided between the two (although I eventually chose to stay in the states).
If that isnt important to you, Cambridge has the nicer campus.

By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 07:01 am: Edit

That would be a good way to distinguish between the two if "Oxford for Humanities" wasn't wrong. What follows is a list humanities subjects studied at both universities, followed by which is ranked higher by the Times criteria:

East and South Asian languages - Cambridge
Economics - Cambridge
English - Oxford
French - Cambridge
Geography - Cambridge
German - Cambridge
History - Cambridge
Iberian Languages - Cambridge
Law - Cambridge
Middle Eastern and African Languages - Oxford
Philosophy - Cambridge
Politics - Oxford
Russian and East European Languages - Cambridge
Theology - Oxford

So no, Oxford isn't better for most subjects in the arts and humanities.

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 01:49 pm: Edit

Then why is Oxford known better for humanities and Cambridge for excellent Math and Science?

By Tuannguyen (Tuannguyen) on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 02:46 pm: Edit

Pds112,

Probably because of the relative ignorance of the general population. Most people "hear" about these schools from other people, correct? You're not necessarily getting the most accurate of all info from these people.

By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 02:49 am: Edit

Tuannguyen's hit the nail on the head. The kids you are hearing this from are all at Andover, right? I doubt very much that they have very much knowledge on these subjects.

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 06:41 am: Edit

No, they just know where they want to go, what they've been told, and work really hard towards their goal. You guys seeem to have a much better insight because you've researched the topic. I understand that it is not Oxford-humanities, Cambridge-sciences, but then why does Cambridge have more impressive Science grads.?

By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Thursday, July 17, 2003 - 01:10 pm: Edit

Because Cambridge invests more money in its science programs and the town itself is the centre of the high-tech industry in Britain. There is a lot of university-tech business partnership in Cambridge because most of the tech businesses are run by ex-Tabs.

By Jofromgermany (Jofromgermany) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 03:21 pm: Edit

Londoner, I would like to make use of your offer to give information about the "interview process, essays, language tests", etc.! =)
I'm from Germany and I would like to apply for either Oxford or Cambridge (by the way: can anybody tell me why you can't apply for both?) and I'm sort of afraid of the application process. What's the interview like and about? Do you maybe even happen to know if it is very hard to get admission as an international student?

Second, I'm not sure by which criterium I should decide which university I'm going to apply for. It doesn't really matter to me if Oxford has the better worldwide reputation or not - I'd rather be more than overjoyed to get into one of them at all.
So do any of you have any clues which university might be easier to enter or which differences could influence me in my decision?

By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 04:31 pm: Edit

I believe this is the reason that you can't apply to both:

Before the early/mid 80s you could apply to both. However, applications began to increase and the universities became swamped with interviews. If everyone who applied to Oxford also applied to Cambridge and vice versa then neither university would be able to cope with administering multiple interviews, examining submitted work and setting examinations for all candidates.

I'm not sure about the acceptance rates for international students, but if you're bright and enthusiastic about your subject then you shouldn't have a problem.

As for deciding between the two - why don't you visit England and see the two towns for yourself? I think the ferry from Kiel is very cheap, especially in summer, and if not then rail connections from Paris to London are peanuts and both universities are only a short journey away.

By Sprite04 (Sprite04) on Saturday, July 19, 2003 - 04:54 pm: Edit

OXBRIDGE EXPERTS,

You guys are just brimming with useful information!

AP scores seem to be a recurring theme in the admissions requirements at Oxbridge. That being said, are they only interested in the AP score for the subject you plan to major (geography) in? In my case, I got top marks in my major’s AP (5 in geography, 4 in Environmental Sci.) however in my other AP’s I only received qualified marks (3s).

Thanks for your help!

By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 04:01 am: Edit

You might be in a bit of trouble there, then. The standard A-level offer is AAA. That said, they will probably still invite you to interview, and if you really impress they can lower the offer. How many APs did you take, Sprite04?

By Heartfang (Heartfang) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 06:37 am: Edit

I support you, Morgantruce!! there seems to be this popular debate going on and on and on..

By Heartfang (Heartfang) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 06:45 am: Edit

And, arealtexan, a standard offer for INTERNATIONAL students are AAAA or AAAA and another A for AS level subject.

Pds 112, kindly tell me if you actually are accepted into Oxbridge next year.

After all this debate, it is gonna look a little silly if you aren't accepted, would it not?

waiting in anticipation,
an applicant for Earth Sciences/Geology to Cambridge, 2004

By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 07:06 am: Edit

Which college are you applying to Heartfang?

And where did you get that standard offer for international students from? I find it hard to believe that the standard offer would be more than the maximum number of A-levels allowed at some schools. I've heard of AAAA offers, but they are by no means the norm. AAA/AAB are usual, with ABC and EE for better students. Unless they are not GCE A-levels?

By Crazycat (Crazycat) on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 12:29 pm: Edit

Was reading the posts with some interest and found a need to clarify on certain admission points. Conditional offers for international students vary depending on colleges and courses. It can be as high as AAAAA (friend got it for Medicine 3 years back) and low as EE if they are very impressed with your academic credentials. There is no standard international student offer. Who gave you such a notion Heartfang? I am an international student myself.

By Heartfang (Heartfang) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 06:44 am: Edit

arealtexan; well, I am going to put in an open app, most probably. also, i was quite surprised when uk students told me that most of them only did 3 A Levels subjects. Generally, Malaysians (intending to get into a competitive uni) do 4'As. Some even do 5, but personally, I think they are crazy. Or really like studying.

From a friend studying in Singapore, she has told me that most of them do 5 ! A Levels in other to stay competitive.

Maybe it is more competitive for Asians or something. But yes, arealtexan, if you are talking about uk students, i guess 3 A Levels is probably sufficient.

For a Malaysian to do 3 A Levels, what it means to us that that person cannot cope with his/her studies.

By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 08:57 am: Edit

I have just taken 4 A-levels. Quite a lot of the top students in the UK take 4 A-levels or even 5. One of my friends took 6 A-levels, but it was all in similar subjects (Maths, Further Maths, etc.)

I took 4 A-levels and was given an offer on the basis of 3 A-level grades. The Malaysian A-level system is also different, is it not? In the same way that you do O-levels instead of the new GCSEs? You don't do things using the AQA, OCR, Wales, NI, Edexcel, etc. boards, or am I wrong?

Something you might want to consider about an open app - if you are a girl you will most likely be assigned to New Hall or Newnham College on an open application. And for some reason, open applicants have a slightly lower chance of being accepted (though I'm sure it is insignificantly lower).

By Jofromgermany (Jofromgermany) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 07:03 pm: Edit

Could somebody briefly explain to me what exactly the A-levels are made up of? Because I think our system in Germany is very different from the British, so I don't even know what is meant when Heartfang says that international students should have AAAA or whatsoever...
We've got a 15-point scale and at the end you get an "Abitur", which is best with 1.0 and with 6 being the worst grade you can get although you would not pass your Abitur with such a grade at all...

By Heartfang (Heartfang) on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 11:16 pm: Edit

Jo: er, .. you have to check with the Admission Office on this one. Different countries have different exams and different requirements

arealtexan: our A Level syllabus from the UCLES (University of Cambridge Local Examination Syndicate) board.

We don't do O levels, but have an equivalent - SPM. We also could Form 6, STPM, but that course ends in December, unlike A Levels which ends in June.

We do A Levels in 1 and a half years, starting in Jan, ending in June. The whole course is crammed, we have barely time to breathe. I started my A Levels in Jan, and we just finished our AS syllabus.

By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 07:11 am: Edit

I see, UCLES offers a slightly different A-level system to the ones offered here. Singapore's system is again slightly different.

Jofromgermany - there are quite a few German students who come to the UK each year, as I'm sure you can imagine, and admissions tutors are quite happy to make conditional offers on the basis of the Abitur. As a precaution you should wite to the admissions tutor at your chosen college about the Abitur. Writing to them is also a good idea as it gets you into their mind before the applications are sent in - I'm sure that arranging an individual tour of the college with the admissions tutor helped in my receiving an offer.

By Emma (Emma) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 10:15 am: Edit

They're both very good, well respected and you'll have fun whichever you choose! Will everyone stop trying to decide which ones better! Just decide whether you prefer the town of Oxford or Cambridge better!!!
[English]

By Coolcollegekid (Coolcollegekid) on Saturday, July 26, 2003 - 03:50 pm: Edit

Also look at the LSE. It's equal to Oxbridge, isn't it? It's certainly up there, on a par with the US ivies. What about LSE's international reputation?

By Jofromgermany (Jofromgermany) on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 05:28 pm: Edit

Thanks a lot for the information and the hint, Arealtexan! I will consider this when I've chosen my college! =)

By Pds112 (Pds112) on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 09:53 pm: Edit

Coolcollegekid, Oxbridge is above all. LSE is great but don't stretch it. It's like saying that Brown is as good as Harvard-they are in the same league, but they are varied on the academic scale.

By Bobhood (Bobhood) on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 11:20 pm: Edit

oxford has a bigger name with the masses, cambridge has (in general) a bigger name with more educated folks.

as far as prestige being an important issue...sure, with an mit degree, i've had doors flung open before me like there's no tomorrow, but the fractional difference between oxford and cambridge is simply meaningless.

the only place it would matter is if you are faced with a shallow enough and ignorant enough employer who thinks "ooh, i think that cambridge is less prestigious so i'll hire the oxford guy!" such an employer is just that, shallow and ignorant. would you really want to work for such a guy anyway?

and honestly, it's really immature to be so obsessed with the rankings and prestige. your infatuation with the subject leads me doubt your candicacy for the universities of which you speak. seriously, students who end up going to the good universities spend a lot more time figuring out exactly what they want to study, with whom, and beyond rather than focusing on silly comparisons to cure an inferiority complex!

By Bobhood (Bobhood) on Sunday, July 27, 2003 - 11:22 pm: Edit

by the way, regarding the issue of AP exams...english students spend more time in secondary schools than do american students. therefore, oxbridge looks for students who have completed far more than the just the basic u.s. high school completion requirements. (sometimes they even suggest that it is better for american students to complete 2yrs of college before applying to an english university). thus, not that you can't get in with 2 aps, but you are probably better equipped with high scores on more exams.

By Nickm242 (Nickm242) on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 12:09 am: Edit

Hey guys and gals,

I am new to this site...and would first and foremost commend this site and its members on the great work that you all do !! congrats!!

now moving to my question; i was wondering if anyone woule be able to help me with some admission q's for postgraduate studies at Cambridge or Oxford.

I really, really want to do my Masters in International Relations at either one of these wonderful institutions?

But what marks do they require and wht do they usually need? i mean i looked at both school websites but they give a bunch of general answers!

Do any of you know personal success stories of individuals who have gained admission into any of Cam or Oxford's grad programs? if so could please let me know, and post their stats...if possible...thanks a million gang..

ohh my stats are: currently entering final yr at university, hold a 3.5 GPA! I hope this gets me in? U think so? Like honestly how tough is it to get into these schools?? what MUST I DO !!?

cheers. thanks for ne help/advice/hints...ur all amazing!

Nick.

By Arealtexan (Arealtexan) on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 02:29 am: Edit

Okay Nickm242, I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.

The bare minimum entry requirements to study for a Master of Philosophy (MPhil) in International Relations at Cambridge or Oxford is either a first class or an upper second degree from a UK university or its equivalent. This translates to a 3.5 GPA or more, so you are eligible to study there. If you have less than that, it is almost impossible to be admitted. You might want to try and push your GPA up a little bit to be more competitive, but you've got a year to do that.

There is someone one this board who got into one of Cambridge's graduate programs, but I'll leave that for her to reveal. You also might want to take a look at these profiles on Oxbridge Info, which have been done by graduate students:

http://www.oxbridge-info.co.uk/profiles/prof_disp.asp?id=476

http://www.oxbridge-info.co.uk/profiles/prof_disp.asp?id=514

http://www.oxbridge-info.co.uk/profiles/prof_disp.asp?id=455

By Nickm242 (Nickm242) on Monday, July 28, 2003 - 10:34 am: Edit

Arealtexan,

thanks a million for all ur advice...i really appreciate it...reading some of the profiles on the links u provided really opened my eyes up.....

I hope to bumpy my avg to a 4.0 in my final year..i was wondering what does a 4.0 constitute in terms of percentile? i mean is it an 85%, 90%, 95% etc.etc. I am currently studying in the North American GPA system.

Once again, thanks for all ur advice, keep it coming, I am thirlled to listen and take your words of wisdom.

Cheers.

Nick.

By Heartfang (Heartfang) on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 03:10 am: Edit

Also, PDS, you need 5, 5, 5, or at least 5, 5, 4 on your AP's so it is NO USE ASKING ALL THESE QUESTIONS.

All colleges (from what i read on their prospectus) REQUIRE THIS. AND YOU HAVE TO GET AT LEAST 700 on your SAT 1's.

By Netequevaris (Netequevaris) on Wednesday, August 20, 2003 - 08:54 pm: Edit

PDS, about the comparison of Cambridge to Oxford for the classics, I may be able to help a little. I'm a classicist myself, from the University of Michigan, who is looking at graduate study at the two schools. Truly, as an undergraduate, it won't matter as much where you go; both are excellent schools. In all honesty, American schools are ranked more highly for the classics than Oxbridge because of the resources.

For instance, recently, UM hired Richard Janko, who had taught at Trinity college Cambridge, because of the greater resources. A few other Oxford-ites have been hired, too. This is not to say or imply that Oxbridge lack anything, but at American institutions, there is the expectation for teachers to teach.

At Oxford, the faculty is massive, but not most of the faculty actually teach... even graduate students. I want to work with a professor J N Adams at Oxford, but he works with nobody; he is just joined to the university due to his impressive number and quality of publications. In the US, he would have to teach. So, between the two schools, you would have to have a real preference for some topic or something to determine where to go. It matters more as a graduate student, to know who could advise your dissertation, but for an undergraduate, the faculty available to you will be top-notch whereever you go.

So, if you like Cambridge, the city, more than the city of Oxford, pick Cambridge - or vice versa. Otherwise, just go where there is some particular faculty member with whom you would want to work.

One last reference about faculty quality. I've had or worked with a number of professors from Oxbridge. Of current faculty, I worked with a professor Henderson from Cambridge (does a lot with the literature and philosophy). He was a very, very genial man who is most astute. Also, I worked with DR Shackleton Bailey, who is considered easily to be the greatest living Latinist. He went to Cambridge (many years ago), where many of the great textual critics of the last 250 years attended. He is also an honorary fellow of one of the colleges. This is just to say that Cambridge has an excellent faculty and reputation for turning out fantastic classicists. They also produced Richard Janko who is formost in study of Ancient Literary Criticism. A prof at UM who won the Macarthur award went to Cambridge (Cantabrigae) for her PhD.

At Oxford, I've not met any current faculty, but based on the faculty that I've met who went to Oxford, I can only assume that it is equally impressive. I had a professor who went to Magdalen college who won the Carnegie award for teh Humanities. Dirk Obbink, recent arrival at UM - and collaborator with Janko, went to Oxford. David Potter, who appears on the second Gladiator dvd, went to Oxford.

Basically, the two are reputably equal for the classic, as well as actual education quality. You won't go wrong at either place. So, if you don't have a preference for the school or faculty, just pick what area you like more!

By Africaccc (Africaccc) on Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 11:29 am: Edit

Do some research before paying top $ in the UK. Reputation not enough!
I for one am NOT applying to do Political Science or the Social Sciences in Cambridge after reading what the QAA says. This is the UK government's own quality watchdog for unversities - hardly biased!
http://www.qaa.ac.uk/revreps/subjre...01_textonly.htm

Several colleges got top marks... but not Cambridge because of bad management and bad coordination on the SPS Social and Political Sciences Courses course. Confirmed by Cambridge itself in its newspaper:
SPS Tripos about to "CRACK" http://www.varsity.cam.ac.uk/8025694E0073CFEB/Pages/2712000_Morechaosin.html
“SPSed off!”
http://www.varsity.cam.ac.uk/802569...RIPOSABOUT.html
And the QAA lists other Universities getting straight As (bottom of page, like Oxford, King's College London, Warwick, York, Nottingham. Anyone else got good recommendations, views????

This QAA report destroys my illusions. Just goes to show you, buyers beware! Reputations can change!
I read in my econ history that Technische Universität in Charlottenburg Berlin used to be considered the best University in the world (at the turn of the century). Not so any more!