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I am an Indian girl in the 12th grade. After giving my SAT-1 in November last year(scores=640 in verbal and 770 in maths, total=1410 ....... I know that this sucks).So I gave it again in May and my scores are even worse now = 690 in verbal, 660 in maths(which was supposed to be my strong point) and that’s a total of 1350. I took part in a few Student Search Services and ever since many application packets have found their way home. Since I'm an Indian I don't know about colleges apart from the really prestigious one's and the Ivy Leagues. Ideally I would like to get into MIT or Harvard or Princeton but I don't want to just dismiss the other colleges. My Extra-curricular activities is pretty good - Lots of swimming, dancing, singing, public speaking, volunteer work for events and a lot of other stuff. So here is a list of the colleges which have sent their admission packets-tell me the ones which are worth applying to-
1. University of Maryland, Baltimore County
2. Sweet Briar College, Virginia
3. The University of Maine
4. Azusa Pacific University
5. Embry-Riddle, Aeronautical University
6. Binghamton University
7. Knox
8. College of Notre Dame,Maryland
9. Benedictine College
10. St. Scholastica
11. SUNY Oswego, New York
12. Milwaukee School of Engineering
13. Texas Lutheran University
14. Trinity, Washington
15. Butler University
16. Colorado State Uni
17. North Central College,Illinois
18. Heidelberg
19. Bridgewater of Virginia
20. Kettering
21. Oberlin
22. Graceland University

By Drusba (Drusba) on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 02:18 pm: Edit

I think you need to provide a little more info on yourself: (a) you are in 12th grade in India or US? (b) what is your GPA and have you taken all the necessary college prep courses for US colleges? (C) have you taken SAT II's and, if so, what are the scores? (d) Are you intending to apply for fall 2004 admission? (that seems true but that would mean you would spend 2003-2004 school year doing something other than going to high school if you are now in the 12th grade)? (e) do you have an intended major?

Your post represents a typical situation with foreign students -- they have heard of Harvard, Yale, Princeton(a trilogy referred to as "HYP") MIT and perhaps a few others (usually other ivies) and assume those are the best of the best. Most people in the US (outside of the Northeast US) would probably disagree because there are a lot of other schools that are considered equal to or even better than those. Nevertheless, receiving promo material does not help all that much. Much of that comes from small liberal arts schools. Many of the schools you list are fine for liberal arts but helping to choose any of them, or whether you should ignore all of them, cannot be done without more information on you as requested above.

A 1410 SAT is fine. In fact, you now have a 1460 as most schools (including MIT, and HYP) will take your higest verbal and your highest math from multiple tests. You have heard or seen too much pompous garbage from a small number of paranoid test takers who believe college-admission life does not exist unless you are at or close to 1600 (and who, unfortunately, sometimes occupy boards like these). Your score, as a score, is actually good enough for any college including MIT, but the score is only one of many factors that schools consider--a 1600 SAT won't get you in by itself.

Another web-site to check that provides some useful info on colleges is www.princetonreview.com

It appears you may be considering engineering as a major because of your interest in MIT. If that is the case, then among the schools you may want to consider other than MIT (in no particular order) are Stanford (California), California Institute of Technology, University of Illinois Urbana Champaigne, Cornell, Rose-Hulman (Indiana), Purdue (Indiana), Georgia Institute of Technology, Illinois Institute of Technology, University of Michigan, Harvey Mudd (California), Rice (Texas), Duke (North Carolina), Northwestern (Illinois), University of Florida, John Hopkins (Maryland), Carnegie Mellon (Pennsylvania), UCLA, UC Berkeley, California Polytechnic San Luis Obispo, Embry Riddle (in your list and if your main focus is aerospace engineering), University of Colorado, University of Texas, Rochester Institute of Technology (New York) (numerous others I cannot think of off the top of my head).

By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 12:48 am: Edit

Firstly I'd like to thank you Drusba for so much info.
Ok...now a little bit more about myself.
I am in Indian Student living and studying in India.
Over here we don't have GPA and the school I currently am in does'nt have ranking. But 2 years back when I was in the 10th grade and in a different school you could consider me to be in the top 10% in a class of 150.
I started my 12th grade in April this year.
So I'd like to join a college by fall '04.
I am not very sure about my intended major but most probably it will be computer engg. or if I suddenly feel very adventurous it would be Aerospace engg.
I still have'nt taken my SAT-II, but I am preparing for them and will take them later this year. My subjects will be writing, maths 2c and chemistry.
I would like to ask a question here-what's the difference between math 1c and math 2c???
I know that 1c is easier and would definitely like to take that...but everybody seems to be taking 2c.
I think that's about all......thankyou

By Exeguest2001 (Exeguest2001) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 05:18 am: Edit

I'm an Indian too.Admissions are over,now worrying 'bout the visa.
Anyhow,if ur looking at engg. MIT and others ask for u to take either MATH-Ic or II-c.as far as I know the diff between the two is that 2c is more advanced(involving calculus and other class 12th topics) whereas the curve on 2c is alot easier(over 9% get 800s).
As far as colleges are concerned I have U.S.News rankings that I can forward u if u want.

By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 05:51 am: Edit

Oh God...I have'nt missed the admissions. I'll be applying later this year and I'll start my college education in "FALL 2004".

By Exeguest2001 (Exeguest2001) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 10:10 am: Edit

I'm going to college in FALL 2003, so you're well b4 time

By Drusba (Drusba) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 10:21 am: Edit

Math IC is more basic covering algebra and geometry; IIC adds trigonometry; neither has calculus. Most schools in the US do not require SAT II's at all; however, many of your upper ranked private schools and all University of California schools do. As to which one to take, it depends on the school to which you apply; most that require a math SAT II will accept either the IC or IIC but sometimes have an exception that if you are applying to their engineering or science programs you have to submit the IIC -- for example, California Institute of Technology and Harvey Mudd both require the IIC. Thus, taking the IIC assures all bases are covered particularly if you do not know yet to which schools you are going to apply. To determine whether any particular school requires the SAT II'S at all and the math IIC, you can go to their sites as that information is most often provided in their admissions section on their sites. Is the IIC actually harder than IC? Yes and no. IIC will have more difficult and advanced questions than IC. However, persons who have taken trig and possibly calculus may often actually do better on the IIC partly because they will remember more from their recent advance classes than their earlier basic classes.

If you are considering engineering, schools I listed above are all potentials and there are more. Most of the schools you have received promo material from are not options because they do not even have engineering. Also, the Harvard, Yale, or Princeton route is not necessarily the way to go as engineering is not considered their top areas (at MIT it obviously is).

If you believe you may go engineering but are not sure and are still that way next fall when doing applications, make sure you apply to both tech schools and universities that also have good programs in A&S and other areas. In other words, you do not want to limit yourself to places like MIT, Georgia Tech, California Tech, Illinois Insitutue of Technology, etc. because if you end up not wanting to be in engineering and science those schools do not have a huge variety of other areas to turn to like large universities that have all kinds of programs. I am not sure how schools will deal with the issue of your not having a GPA or class rank (someone else may have the answer). Nevertheless, it sounds like you are doing very well and should apply to some of those schools that are extremely tough to get into like MIT but you should make sure you also apply to those that can be possible "safety" schools that admit the majority of their applicants. Also, when doing research for possible schools to apply and estimating whether it is a reach or safety, make sure, if you are applying to engineering, that you check to see if the particular school's standards of admission are higher for engineering than other schools in the university. For example, at University of Illinois it is much harder (higher GPA and test scores are needed) to get into the engineering school than other schools in the university. Next, an area that others may provide more info on involves financial aid for foreign students. I am aware that many offer none (other than possibly merit scholarships) while there are some that have their own programs to give aid to foreign residents; thus if cost will be a factor that is also something you need to check on with schools you apply to.

As to your possible "computer engineering" major be aware: (a) at many US schools that is simply part of the electrical engineering area; (b) at US schools "computer engineering" mainly deals with hardware while "computer science" deals with software and a number of schools have their "computer science" department in Arts & Sciences rather than the engineering school.

By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 12:42 pm: Edit

uhhhhh ok....this is a lot of info to digest..thankyou!!

By Cornellian07 (Cornellian07) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 03:37 pm: Edit

Rashmi, honestly, the colleges you listed were generally below your level. And if you want to go into engineering, most of the colleges you listed are pretty bad in engineering. I recommend that you get a book on colleges and decide from that where to apply. I could give you a basic idea of which colleges would be good for you. I would say RPI, Georgia Tech, UIUC, and University of Michigan are a few good schools that you are in the range for.

By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 01:13 am: Edit

ya....I know that these colleges are pretty below my range by seeing there admission packets...but I thought taht I'll get other ppl's opinion and now I know the Final Verdict.
Thanks Everyone!

By Thegreat (Thegreat) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 04:04 am: Edit

I think rashmi, since your score shows u are so good, i would suggest try indian colleges like IIT , roorkee and BITS and keep harvard , princeton and may be even MIT as safety.
the best indian colleges are at par with any college or universities in the world. so dont count them off completely.
good luck

By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 04:20 am: Edit

Hey thegreat
I'd never get into IIT...not in a 1000 years and anyways I've already wasted 1 year(the entire 11th std), so there's no point trying now. And as for Pilani-I don't think I'll get about 95%in isc (realistically speaking). I'm actually quite dumb when it gets to serious studying for entrances and stuff....that's why I wanna go to the States-SAT-I, SAT-II, TOEFL....seem a lot more easier!!!!

By Ubaid_In (Ubaid_In) on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 12:55 pm: Edit

In the list of colleges which have sent you there admission packets their is Heidelberg (# 18) . I was wondering whether you are talking about the Unievrsity of Heidelberg, a German university. Is it?

By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 03:14 am: Edit

nah..it's in the USA

By Sandipan (Sandipan) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 05:03 am: Edit

Hey Rashmi,

I'm Sandipan from Mumbai. I went through the entire dilemma a year ago. Where to apply, are my stats good enough...why isn't any college replying...and after they started responding...why aren't they giving me aid....

Well, I'll just post my stats here and the colleges where I applied and was admitted to.

1. Xth Std. - Naval Public School, Mumbai :
CBSE, 92.4 %, 2nd in School
2. XII Std. - Naval Public School, Mumbai :
CBSE, Agg. 92%, PCM 94 %, 1st in
school

Joined an A grade engineering college here. Realized Mumbai University wasn't all that great and decided to apply to Univ.'s in America. I was 17 (still am) and so I wouldn't be wasting a year either.

SAT I - Math : 780 Verbal : 670 Total : 1450
SAT II - Math IIC : 790 Physics : 800 Writing :
750

Your SAT's are quite low for applying to places like MIT, Caltech and the likes. A low verbal score about 650 is still OK, but if you're looking for admission to an engineering school you have to have a high math SAT I and SAT II Math score.

I would advise you to give the Math IIC, especially if you're in ISC and have done ISCE. Neither of them should be a problem. IC is a little easier but if you get even one problem wrong your score will become 790, unlike IIC where even if you get 2-3 wrong, you'll still get 800. I make tons of silly mistakes so I chose IIC and got 790.

I didn't have any idea where to apply, so after a lot of research, going through tons of rankings, browsing through websites and talking to my dad's colleagues here's the list of colleges to where I applied.

1. MIT
2. CALTECH
3. Univ. of Calif. - Berkeley (UCB)
4. Olin College of Engineering
5. Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (RPI)
6. Univ. of Illinois - Urbana Champaigne (UIUC)
7. Carnegie Mellon Univ. (CMU)
8. Univ. of Texas - Austin
9. Georgia Institute of Tech.
10. Univ. of Calif. - Los Angeles (UCLA)
11. Purdue Univ. (All Indian students apply here)
12. Rose-Hulman Institute of Tech.
13. Univ. of Rochester (UROCH)
14. Lafayette College
15. Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI)
16. Univ. of Calif. - Davis
17. Univ. of Calif. - San Diego
18. Clarkson Univ.
19. Stevens Institute of Tech.

I applied to a wide range of colleges. From MIT, indisputably ranked 1, to Clarkson Univ. But the point is that in US, even if you go to colleges like Stevens or Clarkson you are guaranteed a great undergraduate education. Most students usually study in colleges like UIUC and then move onto Caltech for their Graduate studies.

You'll find that if you add, Cornell, Princeton, Stanford, Virginia Tech to the list, you'll get a comprehensive list of good and decent engineering colleges worth applying to.

Yes, I did go crazy applying to colleges. But firstly, I didn't know where I would get admitted as I didn't have any guidance counsellers.

Secondly if you do some research you'll find that at most colleges, even the good ones, you can apply online for free. They encourage it. So I basically had to pay only for about 10 colleges and I got 9 more for free. The average US student applies to 6. Also when I applied to Berkeley, I could apply to three other Univ. of Calif for free. So I did.

Of the list I was rejected at MIT and Berkeley. I was waitlisted at CALTECH and Olin and the rest I was admitted to. So basically out of 19 I got accepted to 15. Later after considering financial aid from each of the 15 I chose to go to RPI, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute.

I think that's more information than you can digest in one sitting, if you want to ask me anything about the admission process, since I did go through it just a few months ago, feel free to mail me at sandipan911@hotmail.com.

I would advise you to check out the following two websites. They helped me a lot.

www.usnews.com
www.princetonreview.com

By Rashmi (Rashmi) on Saturday, June 28, 2003 - 08:24 am: Edit

Ok Hi sandipan
Thanks for taking part in my Discussion.
I'd like to tell you that my SAT scores are not as low as you think-After talking to the ppl on this board I've come to know that the admission ppl consider the best SAT scores-so mine are Maths-770 (percentile=99)
Verbal-690 (percentile=94)
total-1460(not all that bad...huh??????)
Ya....I'll be applying online too.......Thanks for all your advice