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I'm new to the board, but I have a poser for those of you educated in the homeschooling movement. I have a relative, a friend and a neighbor who have or are homeschooling. I read often how homeschoolers score higher that public schoolers, supposedly discounting the academic questions involved in homeshcooling. But I have a concern on this that maybe some of you can address.

What I read and hear doesn't seem to match with what I see. My neighbor who homeschooled her child eventually put him in public education. He needed to go into remedial classes for almost every subject... He had suposedly passed all of the tests that homeschoolers are required to take to show that they are keeping up to standard. Similarly with my relative, at the end of kindegarten, she could name only a couple letters of the alphabet and could write none of them... but she had also supposedly passed all of the required tests to show that she was making adequate progress. The same has happened with my friends children. How can these children be passing the tests but still so glaringly below standard. I believe that some parents may be excellent homeschoolers and have wonderful results. But it seems in my immediate experience that these parents would be an acception to the rule.

Is it possibly that I am experiencing parents who attempt it, fail and end up with their children in public school and the children who produce these shining test scores for homeschoolers represent the small number of parents who are actually successful with the program and continue it through high school??... I don't know... it just seems that what I read about homeschooling doesn't match with what I see. Any thoughts or comments?...

By Lisa McGinn on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Hi-

What you say may be true to some extent. Some try homeschooling and then quit for various reasons. They, and their children, may be worse off for the short-lived attempt. However, do not assume that all who finish at high levels, in the homeschooling community, have had steady, incremental progress throughout their educational career. My son was a late reader. He didn't read on his own well until about the age of 10. This is the same child who at 5 years-old tested (in public school) at grade level 5 for his vocabulary understanding. He is very bright, but would have tested very badly at around 8 or 9 years-old because of his lack of reading skills. Homeschooling takes a certain dedication and determination. Things will not always be sweetness and light- parents have to be strong enough to weather the unproductive times, the criticism of others and their own worries to make it work well.

By Lynn on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 10:55 pm: Edit

I understand exactly what you are talking about, and I have an inside track. I homeschooled both of my daughters from grades 3rd through 9th and 1st through 9th. Without breaking my arm patting myself on the back, I did a darn good job with my two. It helped that they were accelerated learners and had been skipped grades in the public school, and it helped that I am a certificated teacher who was also an accelerated student. My older daughter graduated from public high school last year, valedictorian of her class, National Merit Scholar, member of the first place Academic Decathlon Team, and Chief Justice of the school Judiciary Council. She is currently at USC. My 15 yo is a junior, also straight-A, and a Varsity Debater. Our homeschool experience was successful, but I conducted the girls' home studies so that they studied what was being taught in public school, only at a more accelerated pace and with more depth. In some subjects, we covered thoroughly what seems to be lacking in public school--writing and grammar.

Since my girls returned to school, I have been working as a teacher for homeschooling charters. After two years of working in this capacity, I have yet to see another family keeping pace with what their children would be learning had they stayed in public school. When I was a homeschool parent, I did know some homeschool families who did an excellent job. In two of those families, the mothers were certificated teachers.

I am deeply disappointed in the work ethic I see in my homeschool students. They want to do the least amount of work possible and use only the easiest curriculum. Many of the high schoolers have failed in public school and see homeschooling as an easy alternative towards graduation. Two of my current students are good examples of this: one is 16 and a freshman, the other 17 and a freshman. They are freshman because the failed to achieve enough credits in their school attendance up to this point.

We have a high school exit exam in California. None of the high schoolers I work with have been able to pass the exam. I do require them to complete work and we meet twice a month. The problem is that their materials are at a 3rd/4th grade level. The homeschool charters do have grad requirements, but will push these kids through. Those students who do absolutely nothing are usually kicked out of one charter, but just make their way into another of the many in the area.

So, yes, I do know what you are talking about. Are there homeschool students who are excelling? Certainly. Are there more who are not? My educated guess based on observation would be yes. Why do you see stats that say that homeschoolers score higher on standardized tests? This is a stat that is usually provided by one of the homeschool research groups. Since only the homeschool students who are confident about being college material take the exam, the yield of high scores is higher. The percentage of homeschoolers who take standardized exams is much smaller than the percentage of public schoolers who do likewise. Public school students are encouraged to take SAT's or the ACT exam and many more try it. Therefore, without knowing the percentage of the whole, it may translate that homeschoolers are better educated.

Homeschooling can work. It requires dedication on the part of the parent and the student. Not all parents are equipped to homeschool, and not all should.

I hope this post sheds a bit of light on the situation and that I haven't stepped on the toes of any conscientious homeschoolers who read this.

By Robi on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 11:07 pm: Edit

Hmmm...what you read and hear doesn't match what you've observed in a sample totaling three families. You think that successful (however you define that) homeschooling parents are rare "...it seems in my immediate experience that these parents would be an acception (sic) to the rule" So, you question the validity of reporting based on thousands of homeschoolers because the three families you've casually observed don't meet the profile? I guess you did not take a statistics class in college. I am amazed when people try to extrapolate a trend based on a teeny tiny sample or who leap to conclusions about any group after very limited experience with its members.

Families who homeschool through highschool are not necessarily those whose children are star test takers or naturally brilliant. Many homeschooled kids are just average kids. Some kids are homeschooled because they have special needs that were not met in institutional school, while others may have been "late bloomers" who needed extra time to grow and learn.

Plenty of institutionally schooled children are unable to read well at the end of the second or third grade, yet are passed on (social promotion has long been the norm.) Surely you've heard of the "bell curve" as it relates to test results? There's a small portion of a population that tests either very poorly or very well, with most being average. There are indeed a small number of homeschoolers who do not do well academically, just as there are relatively few who shine. It also stands to reason that those parents who chose to try homeschooling because their children did poorly in school may give up more easily and put them back into school when they get frustrated. Some parents have even been told they should homeschool their children before their kids get expelled for behavior problems. These kids generally were not disciplined at home to begin with, and their parents are all too happy to return them to the school system ASAP.

As for the reported test results being skewed because they represent only the college bound portion of the population, I'd like to see some factual back up on that. Many states require annual standardized testing of ALL homeschoolers, using tests such as the ITBS or CAT, and this has nothing to do with the college entrance exams.

BTW, I know of no other state that regulates homeschooling in the manner of California, so it would not be appropriate to assume that one state is representative of all. It sounds as if the few homeschoolers mentioned previously who are underperforming there would likely be doing just as poorly in an institutional setting.

We homeschool for many reasons, not just academic excellence. In our 11 years of homeschooling in three states, we've known many families who've homeschooled through high school. Some were accepted for early admission to college, others worked part time and attended community college, a few took some sort of vocational training or apprenticed themselves to a craftsman, and most went off to college at 18 and managed to deal with their freshman year like most other kids. Some of these families homeschooled mainly for religious reasons, others because their kids were being medicated to sit still in class, a few because their kids had below average IQs and struggled with academics, and fewer still whose kids were brilliant and needed lots of enrichment activities unavailable in their schools. We chose to homeschool mainly because working hours and business travel combined with the school schedule rendered family time almost nonexistent. We also had concerns about our children's health and about the lack of challenge in their classrooms. Our first week of homeschooling was spent on a business trip. We've done nearly as much "van schooling" as homeschooling. My kids have consistently scored in the 95th to 98th percentile on their standardized tests. One scored a 32 on the ACT the month after she turned 16. In the last year, she earned approximately 21 semester hours of credit via the CLEP tests. My kids are no more representative of homeschoolers in general than the few you've observed.

By Dadster on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 10:52 pm: Edit

Van schooling... I love it, Robi.

By Miakulpa (Miakulpa) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 11:48 am: Edit

Our new neighbors homeschooled their three kids for years and have now moved to our district to take advantage of the excellent school system. Two are in highschool and one is in elementary school. They thought they were in grand shape academically. Boy, were they mistaken! There is no way they can catch up or keep up with our public school curriculum. They were simply not prepared.

By Morgantruce (Morgantruce) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 12:21 pm: Edit

Miakulpa,
It sounds like you have much to rejoice over.

By Candi1657 (Candi1657) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 09:40 pm: Edit

well, there are failing kids in public school, in a much higher proportion.

homeschooling failures just tend to be more scrutinized and criticized.

ever seen cbs's "the dark side of homeschooling"?

it's ridiculous.

i was homeschooled from kindergarten to ninth grade. when i finally went to public school, i was way ahead of my peers, and now we don't even take the same classes.

homeschooling works.

By Candi1657 (Candi1657) on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 09:43 pm: Edit

my homeschooled friends and i had to take the stanford-9 achievement test every year that we were homeschooled. and guess what?

myself and and all of my friend scored 85+ percentile.

homeschooling works.

By Jamimom (Jamimom) on Saturday, January 03, 2004 - 11:05 pm: Edit

Beth C-T, my experience has been the same as yours. But the successful homeschoolers are vehemently adamant that homeschooling works. And it does for some kids. It's just that there aren't any systematic counts of who is homeschooling and what the result is and so the info is anecdotal. I do not believe you have to be a certified teacher to successfully homeschool your children but you do have to be dedicated to the project. Unless your children are self motivated, organized and unusual, you have to make sure that all subjects are being covered thoroughly and that the homeschooler is indeed doing all of his assignments. You also have to be careful that you are not over spoonfeeding him because he could end up having learning issues in a group situation later if he does not learn to pursue knowledge on his own. It is not easy especially at the highschool level. Up to 8th grade, I have seen homeschooling work beautifully more times than not, and for kids with issues that do not mesh with the traditional school system it may be the best choice, whether it is because the child is so advanced, behind, has another agenda, etc. It is not easy to homeschool highschoolers. Yes, I have seen it done successfully, but I've also seen it botched. I lived in an area that had a lot of homeschoolers among the children of a university's employees. They had a marvelous support system, the kids all seemed to be bright, talented kids, the envy of many of us in a music program where many of these kids excelled. And up through 8th grade, I would say nearly every child was way ahead of his peer group. Now that the years have passed and our children are in college, the outcomes of these kids have shocked me. Very few have completed college, and those who have did not go to the type of schools I would have thought they would given the peer group.
I am good friends with some of the moms in this group and have been working with some of these kids for college admissions. A problem is that if the kids do not excell on the SATs and other college entrance test, they have a huge obstacle because they have no real transcript. If they have not distinguished themselves in any other way, they just are not candidates for top colleges. I am working with one young lady in this situation right now. I was shocked at how low her scores were, given that I have known her for many years and have considered her a very bright girl. And she is a bright girl. But the holes in her learning are abominable. My 16 year old jock son who is barely a B student knows more about literature--terms, analysis than she does. I had her at my home for a month, tutoring her and working with her and had to come to the sad conclusion that she just did not do her work for the last several years and no one caught her because she is just so quick on the uptake. It was very difficult for me to nail her down and I could only do my giving her a pencil, paper and a sample standardized test--ACTs or SATs or APs. She had taken numerous community college courses and aced them all in last couple of years and her reputation was that she was way ahead. I tutor SAT2 writing, have for years, and she was in very bad shape for that test, and could not get her scores up significantly.
Now she will not be classified as a senior. She will get into a state school with advanced credit for the comm college courses and hopefully graduate. But I would have thought she was ivy league material--at least in the striking zone. It was a surprise to me that she did not know the basic things that all of my kids who were not anywhere as bright as she was when we were all together had learned in high school. And mine are no geniuses.

By Jsn (Jsn) on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 05:55 pm: Edit

Jamimom is correct when she states that anecdotes mean little. For instance, I could counter her concerns regarding home educated students and standardized tests, by simply stating that I am homeschooled, and scored 1440 on the SAT when I was 15, or her experiences regarding writing skills with the fact that I received a perfect score on the writing section of the PSAT. Despite the fact that most studies show home educated students generally score higher on tests, and succeed just as well, if not better in college and beyond, the incredible amount of associated variables, will probably never be accounted for to the satisfaction of all interested parties.

Instead of focusing on people's opinions, or even studies, perhaps parents should consider what is really important: which form of education is best for their child/family. Some students do their best work in the public school environment, some succeed in private or parochial schools, and some are best suited for home education. We all learn differently and at our own pace, and to expect home education to work perfectly for most families, is expecting far too much. Just as Jamimom can name many bright students taught at home who have not done well when taught through high school, there are multitudes of bright children for whom the public high school system has totally failed. No one has ever claimed that educating your child is simple, or easy. It is a difficult journey for any person, teaching degree or not, who chooses this road.

Or perhaps even this focus on educational excellence in high school and college is misplaced. In my (admittedly few) years of experience, I have often noted that employers seldom consider only whether an applicant went to an "Ivy League" college, what their SAT scores are, or whether they know terms associated with analyzing literature. Rather, employers are more interested in what the applicant is like as a person, such as whether they are motivated, their expertise in the required fields, whether they have the ability to deal well with people of all ages, etc. These particular "areas of education" seem to me to be particularly suited to home education.

Jason

By Ocliberal (Ocliberal) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 06:17 pm: Edit

Just wondering, but don't homeschool parents want their kids to have someone else's perspective? I don't assume I have the only view on every subject. Also, I am a credentialed teacher, with both elementary and HS Spanish credentialed, but I would never presume to think that I'm qualified to teach my children, say, Geometry or Chemistry. It seems a bit arrogant to me.

By Thoughtfulmom (Thoughtfulmom) on Sunday, March 21, 2004 - 11:28 pm: Edit

Ocliberal wrote: "Just wondering, but don't homeschool parents want their kids to have someone else's perspective?"

All the homeschooled parents I know do indeed want their kids to have someone else's perspective. That's why homeschool parents encourage their kids to take advantage of a wide variety of learning opportunities in their communities, especially during their "high school" homeschool years. Many homeschoolers take courses at local colleges, do apprenticeships or internships, work with mentors in the community, do co-op classes in which homeschool parents and community members with expertise in different areas share their knowledge with homeschoolers, participate in community performing arts programs, participate in foreign exchange programs, etc.

Today's Boston Globe had a terrific article about the varied learning paths taken by homeschoolers in that area. Homeschoolers are getting lots of perspectives there!

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2004/03/21/schoolhouse_rocked/

By Nachrnurchr (Nachrnurchr) on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 12:07 pm: Edit

All the success/failure schooling anecdotes aside...any parent with school-aged children needs to know that the biggest mistake they can make is to take a "hands-off" approach to any part of the education of their children... whether this means leaving it to the credentialed teachers in the public school classroom or to those who write and market textbooks. The uniqueness of each child requires the attention and involvement of those who know them best to facilitate learning and develop their academic potential.

There was an interesting research study a few years ago in Michigan that identified the few dozen public school children with IQs from 150 to over 170, and then asked their teachers and parents whether they had identified any unusual academic talent in their classrooms/homes. Curiously, about 60% of the classroom teachers were completely unaware of the unique talents of these youngsters, while less than 30% of the parents were not aware of the magnitude of their gifts.

The other side of the coin is that kids who are failed by the system are typically failed because they are repeatedly missing needed skills/concepts and being moved along with all their peers by teachers or parents who haven't taken stock of their actual educational progress.

Home schooling is a great opportunity, but it's what you make of it that matters. Successful home schooling parents have provided more varied and advanced learning opportunities in the areas where their child's natural gifts lie, and more repetition and effort in the areas where they struggle, than what is available in the public (or private) school classroom setting.

Likewise, most kids who excel in the classroom or on the athletic field have the full support and involvement of their parents in what they are doing, and if there is an area of "falling behind" in something important those parents are providing tutoring or coaching to bring the kids up to speed.

By Anticatalyst (Anticatalyst) on Monday, May 03, 2004 - 09:24 pm: Edit

I've known many people who homeschool for one reason or another; the success of the people in the system seems to be pretty directly connected to their reasons for entering the system in the first place.

One person I know started homeschooling because she "couldn't take" the public school we were at anymore. She has some pretty serious emotional problems, and she was getting eaten alive at that school; all in all, getting her away from that environment was probably good. However, she's died as far as her intellectual/academic well-being is concerned. I know this girl well--she's incredibly intelligent. She returned to school (a nearby charter school, not the traditional public) recently because of some issues with her family's timeschedules, and she's way behind in everything. She was in all honors classes at our old school, and she is now barely passing some things. The homeschooling was not about the schooling, and so with less outside structure there was less inside achievement.

Another friend of mine started homeschooling around the same time, also because she was dying in the public school--but she was dying because it was too easy for her. She was struggling intellectually where she was. She left school and started going at it on her own--and amazing things happened. She started setting these standards for herself--she wrote a thesis paper a week in English, and she did all sorts of bizarre field ecology things for sci equivalents, and it was crazy. She also came back to traditional school (the same public one this time) because of family schedule issues--her mother couldn't deal with her not being in school anymore, because of work, etc.--and she was drastically better academically than most people I know. She's about to take some crazy level of Latin prize exam, and she started learning Latin within the confines of this (two-year-long) homeschooling stint. She's doing a lot better. However, she also became obsessed with the Lord of the Rings and has become a pariah at school for muttering under her breath in Quenya, quoting the appendices, and claiming to be an elf. Even when not being a Tolkien character, her social skills have suffered a lot.

So...each girl's homeschooling experience solved the problem they wanted it to solve, but sort of exacerbated the opposite one...

Just my two cents.

By Topper (Topper) on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 02:10 pm: Edit

I'm now a senior in highschool and have been going to a private school for the past two years. For a good seven years preceding my sophomore year, I was homeschooled.

My mom's initial reason for the transition to homeschooling with a 2nd grader and a preschooler was because of the inadequate school system in the area at that time. She started out with the Calvert School program, which was fairly successful for us. At the same time, our family helped to found a truly rich a diverse support group that met roughly once a week and went to museums and visited apple orchards....in short, this organization provided for the social aspect of homeschooling that many people find is lacking.

We've moved around a lot since then, and unfortunately have never been able to find such a group again. In the time between 3rd and 8th grade, my mother experimented with many different methods ranging from a Nebraska curriculum to Oak Meadow. In the fall of my 8th grade year, I tried out middle school at a private school. I had absolutely no problem academically, but socially the kids were immature, and sometimes downright nasty (needless to say, if you're planning on sending your child to school, I believe the transition would be much better-handled after middle school). The reason that I decided to attend school in the first place is because my parents and I were a little worried about how dramatic a transition from homeschooling to college could potentially be. I waited until 10th grade to try again at another school and am now very happy. I've made the Headmaster's List for the entirety of my school career, and I have a stable group of friends whom I love and enjoy as well.

I only hope to give those of you who are either thinking about homeschooling or sending your child to school from this environment a little more information. I can't say that homeschooling works all the time - sure, there are always going to be children who need special care. Then, there are the unschoolers who have an entirely different philosophy from that of my parents'. I guess what I'm trying to ask is for you not to lump homeschoolers into one category and make judgements from the one or two people you know, for better or worse. Homeschooling works for some people. And I, for one, know that my mom did an excellent job.