College Search

Question: How much consideration do graduate schools give to the prestige of the undergraduate institution that an applicant attended? I am currently a high school senior deciding to attend either UC Berkeley or USC. I am aware that although UC Berkeley is ranked slightly higher and has a “better” name value, it is MUCH more prestigious and competitive than USC. Hence, I am wondering if it is worth the trouble to go through this academic challenge at UC Berkeley. I’m not saying that I won’t be challenged at USC. I’m just saying that UC Berkeley academics are known to be more difficult. I want to major in economics, and I ultimately want to attend graduate school in four years, so is Berkeley the better choice for me?

For starters, you are making too much of the differences between Cal Berkeley and USC. Unless you’re talking about the University of South Carolina (and I suspect that you’re not) then the admission standards at the two colleges you cite are strikingly similar. I urge you to make your choice based on the campus that you feel is the best one for you now, and not that will serve as the most likely springboard to affirmative grad school verdicts down the road.

But let’s pretend for a minute that these standards really are far apart, as you seem to believe. Even so, graduate schools like to admit a diverse swath of applicants, just as undergraduate colleges do. “The Dean” is often asked if private high schools are “better” than public ones, when it comes to Ivy and “elite” admission, and that always spurs a long diatribe that ends up sounding a lot like “it depends.” Both paths will certainly get you where you want to go, so the “it depends” part pertains to what you’re looking for along the way.

Similarly, graduate admission officials endeavor to select a variety of applicants and, in doing so, they draw from a range of undergraduate institutions. They are far more interested in the individual student’s achievement and potential than they are in the name on his or her college sweatshirt. However, they do take into account the rigor and competition of the undergrad school, and they understand that B’s at one college may be closer to A’s at another.

In your case, however, I suggest that you try to decide where you can best see yourself for the next four years rather than attempting to view each option through the lenses of the grad-school admission committees. You have two excellent choices, and I wish you well as you make your final decision.

Share This

Question: I have an overall weighted GPA of 3.51. My SAT scores are: Critical Reading 550; Math 480; Writing 500.What are my chances of getting into college?

There are so many colleges and universities that will accept a student with your credentials that your head may spin from the all the options. We hear so much about the hyper-competitive schools such as the Ivies and their ilk, but–in reality–the vast majority of institutions accept many more students than they turn away, and an applicant with a strong “B” average like yours will be most welcome.

How do you seek out your best bets? There are numerous approaches. For starters, if you have not done so already, try an online search engine such as the College Board’s “Matchmaker” at http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/adv_typeofschool.jsp .

Answer the entire questionnaire, selecting your preferences for type of school, size, location, majors, extracurriculars, etc. When you get to the “Admission” section, enter your current SAT scores and check “50-75% had GPA of 3.0 or higher.” When you hit “Results,” you’ll find a list of colleges where you are likely to be admitted. While I can’t guarantee that you’ll be accepted by all the schools that come up on this search, you should certainly be a very viable candidate at most of them. If you play around with the questionnaire and check the other GPA options, you’ll get additional choices.

Another place to look for college possibilities is on the “Colleges That Change Lives” Web site. See: http://www.ctcl.com/ This site and its 40 member schools are the by-product of a book by the same name by education writer/consultant Loren Pope. The book points out that it can be the less renowned, smaller institutions that really give students the chance to know each other, their professors, and themselves–something that can get lost in the shuffle at a bigger …or bigger NAME .. institution. Note that the Colleges That Change Lives organization holds events throughout the country, and there may be one coming up near you.

Finally, don’t discount the grapevine … i.e., word of mouth … as a good way to learn about possible target colleges. Ask any adults you respect where they attended college Eavesdrop on conversations in elevators or supermarket checkout lines. Read the College Confidential discussion forums to see where students with similar profiles have been happy and engaged. Obviously, once prospective schools land on your radar screen, it’s up to you to do additional research to see if the place is really a good fit … and visit campus whenever possible.

But don’t think for a minute that college acceptances will be an uphill battle for you. Sure, the application process can be confusing and onerous at times, but if you plan carefully, you should have some excellent choices when the dust settles.

Good luck!

Share This

Question: Are art programs/colleges easier to get into than liberal arts? Any advice about applying to top tier art programs?

I assume that you’re talking about fine arts programs as opposed to performing arts, which is a different story altogether. But, actually, in both cases, the answer to your question is an unsatisfying, “It depends.”

Since most fine arts schools require a portfolio for admission, even students who have Ivy-caliber grades and test scores will be turned away if their arts submissions aren’t up to snuff. On the other hand, the admitted-student rate at the nation’s top art schools is somewhat higher than at the most selective liberal arts colleges and universities. For instance, Rhode Island School of Design, one of the nation’s most renowned art colleges, accepts about a third of its applicants, while the Ivies and most “elite” small schools admit anywhere from about 10% to 20%.

Admission to an arts program within a larger university is typically portfolio-based as well. Sometimes these programs may have lower standards when it comes to grades and test scores, but, even so, the portfolio evaluation may make them more selective than the university itself.

When my own advisees ask me to assess their chances of admission to art programs or art colleges, I cannot provide the answers they seek because I’m in no position to evaluate their creative work, even if everything else in their “profile” meets–or exceeds–the institution’s standards. If you want to get an assessment of your own work, you can begin with your teacher(s). Ask how your portfolio compares to those of past students who have aimed for the same or similar colleges. You can also attend a National Portfolio Day event. (See http://www.portfolioday.net/ ). This is a free and (fairly) stress-free way to have your work critiqued by experts. National Portfolio Days are held throughout the country and attract representatives from many arts programs. Think of this as a college fair, which provides a chance to learn about a lot of colleges at once, but the twist here is that you can lug your portfolio or slides along and get some feedback that can help you strengthen your application (or spur you to pursue an entirely different career!).

Although performing arts programs require a different approach (auditions, head shots, etc.), you will also usually find that admission chances depend greatly on a subjective evaluation of your talent, and grades and test scores may take a back seat if you are very gifted.

However, if you wish to study any type of art in college .. fine arts or performing arts … you can also look to the liberal arts. Many colleges have excellent programs in these areas that do not require a portfolio, an audition, or even a commitment to a major until the end of your sophomore year. Although your course load may not be as focused on your specific interest as it would be in an art college or school of art within a university, this can still be a great way to pursue a passion without locking yourself in to just one field.

Share This

Question: My daughter, who is in middle school, is already interested in accelerated medical programs. What colleges do you support?

We support ANY combined medical program that will admit your daughter. It’s a sellers’ market out there!

Seriously, these programs are SO competitive that they typically admit only Ivy-caliber students and can be as selective as the Ivies (or more so!) and also as unpredictable. Even colleges that are not terribly picky when it comes to the rest of their applicant pool will turn away all but the strongest combo-med candidates. For instance, several years ago I visited Drew University in New Jersey. There, the typical admitted freshman has combined SAT scores (Math and Critical Reading only) of just under 1200, but the combo med candidates must have 1400 minimum simply to apply. In fact, an admission official I met during my visit told me that, although 1400 is the cut-off for applications, the accepted students more commonly have SAT’s above 1500. So, just because a college or university seems well within your daughter’s reach, keep in mind that the combo-med candidates are held to a far higher standard. Last year, for instance, I had an advisee who was denied by Boston University’s combined med program, and she is now a student at Yale.

In addition to having near-perfect grades and test scores, your daughter must also demonstrate significant interest in the medical profession and be able to speak convincingly in at least one interview–and sometimes several–about her reasons for choosing this profession at an early age. Admission officials at combo med programs carefully scrutinize all applicants’ reasons for hopping on this fast track as teenagers.

Note also that, although you use the term “Accelerated Medical Program,” I am actually addressing any type of combined bachelors/MD program. All of these typically enable students to be accepted to both undergraduate school and medical school at the same time, when they are still just in the senior year of high school. In fact, some combo programs are 7 (or even 6) years in duration, while others are 8, which is the normal amount of time that most students spend in undergraduate college, then med school. (However, the 8-year combo-program students do not go through a full med school search and application process. So their medical career is also “accelerated” in that way.)

There are obviously pros and cons to combined programs. The pluses are that they enable motivated pre-med students to get a jump start on their medical education and to be able to forge ahead without going through yet another college search in just four years. To me, that’s the best part–the fact that students don’t have to go through this whole application song and dance before they’ve recovered from the first time around! The biggest down side is that students tend to get locked into both an institution and a career path when they are very young and may not be fully prepared to choose either. Just as one college can be markedly different from another, so too can medical schools vary widely. An 18-year-old might be fairly certain that he or she wants to be a doctor but rarely has a sense of whether to choose a research-oriented medical college, a very technical curriculum vs. one that may emphasize alternative medicine, etc.

Also (and very unofficially) I’ve heard directors of medical residency programs admit that they can be suspect of combo-program grads who may lag a couple years behind in maturity than their counterparts who are somewhat older and more seasoned.

I generally recommend that students who are applying to combined programs also apply to colleges or universities without them and then wait until April to make a decision. The combined programs tend to be highly competitive, as I’ve told you, so all applicants should have other, safer options anyway. (If your daughter is a member of an underrepresented minority group, there are a handful of programs that target these populations specifically and may have slightly less stringent admission requirements, especially when it comes to test-score cut-offs.)

When looking for program options, check out the Web site, below. This list is not complete, but pretty close:

http://www.medicalhelpnet.com/content/view/28/46/

As you investigate the combined med programs, contact admission offices and ask these questions:

1. Are the standards of admission to this program far higher than to the university at large? If so, if I am not admitted to the program, might I still be admitted to the university? If there is a minimum SAT score to be admitted, is it at all flexible? Must the score I submit be from a single testing? Will you consider comparable ACT scores if they are better than my SAT? Do most of the admitted applicants actually score well above this minimum?

8. Is an interview required? If so, will ALL applicants be interviewed or just those who pass a preliminary level of screening?

Since your daughter is not yet in high school, you’re wise to look down the road ahead, to make certain that she is selecting the most challenging classes–especially in math and science–that she can handle and also seeking out other medical-field enrichment opportunities (e.g.,. volunteering in a hospital or clinic, taking summer courses in the sciences or related areas). However, because she is so young, she also needs to recognize that she has time to change her mind. If she doesn’t seem 100% certain that a medical career is right for her, then “the Dean” prescribes a broader undergraduate degree. Your daughter can always aim for med school once she is more sure of her goals and has a couple years of college under her belt.

For more information on combo med admission and programs, check out the College Confidential discussion forum on this topic. Go to:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/forumdisplay.php?f=476

Share This

Question: Some colleges boast that they are “3rd in the world” or “1st in the nation” for such and such a program. How can I verify these claims, and how can I see who else is on the list?

There is no official worldwide list of the best academic programs …. or the best anything … when it comes to college quality. Most references to school rankings stem from US News and World Report’s annual “America’s Best Colleges” issue. If you read US News, you can find potentially helpful statistics that compare class sizes, retention rates, average SAT scores, etc. But don’t take the rankings hierarchy as gospel truth. Make your OWN assessments of which schools are right for you.

Some institutions that make boastful claims, especially the ones that trumpet their #1 status, have nothing to go on except their own high opinions of what they’re offering, with the hope of roping in applicants who may be a tad less cynical than you are. (Since there’s no official way to disprove what they’re saying, why not say it, right?) Others may be basing their proclamations on any of the myriad lists that emerge each year. Princeton Review, for instance, publishes “Best” rosters that cover everything from “Best College Library” to “Best Campus Food” to “Great Schools for Biology Majors” (or “Accounting Majors,” “Engineering Majors,” “Education Majors,” and so on).

If a college you’re considering is touting their superiority in any area, you should feel free to write to admission officials and ask about the source of the claim. If you do it in a curious and friendly way–and not so you sound like you’re putting admission officials on the defensive–you may get a helpful reply. If you receive a response that cites the origins of the ranking, you can then look to see what other colleges and universities earned similar accolades. Chances are good, however, that you won’t receive any answer at all. But, if you do, you may have made a useful contact in the admission office–someone with whom you can continue to correspond as you go through the application process, as other, unrelated questions arise.

Share This

Question: My husband and I are making a priority of saving for our son’s college education. We will be able to fund all the costs of whatever college he chooses to attend. How should our finances affect his search process? The only relevant information I’ve found is that some schools with “need aware” admissions may give preference to a borderline candidate who does not need any aid.

I doubt he will have the credentials for an Ivy or equivalent. He is a freshman at a very competitive public high school. Students like him with a “B” average and just a couple of honors courses are considered underachievers there. He recently was required to take the PSAT and had high scores on the math portion and average scores on the reading and writing sections, as compared to sophomores who have taken the test. Many thanks for any guidance you can provide.

How wise of you to plan ahead for your son’s education and to be thinking about the entire application process now. There’s always a fine line to walk, of course. That is, you need to keep college goals in view, but you also want to enjoy the high school years and not just view them as the road to whatever lies beyond. Sounds like you’re doing everything “right” so far.

The fact that you and your husband will be able to fully fund your son’s college education may have some small impact on where he chooses to apply but perhaps a far GREATER impact on where he actually enrolls.

I always advise students and parents to approach the college search with cost as a low priority … at least at the start. Your son should look for colleges that meet his preferences … location, academics, size, religious affiliation (or lack thereof), extracurriculars, etc. These preferences will surely evolve over the years, but I’ll talk in a minute about what you can be doing NOW.

Yes, you are correct when you say that SOME need-conscious colleges will give your son preference at decision time when they see his check mark next to the “No Financial Aid” question. Being a “full-pay” student can sometimes push a borderline applicant from the “Maybe” pile into the “In” stack, but it won’t spawn quantum leaps. In other words, if your son’s “stats” (grades, rank, SATs, etc.) put him within a college’s “admit” range but not at the top of the heap, then he may catch a break because he won’t need any dough.

How does this affect his college search? IF he falls in love with a college that he views as something of a “reach” but not out-of-reach, and IF that school does not practice “need-blind” admission, then he can count his full-pay status as a very small “hook.” Note, however, that I’ve seen some families put way too much stock in their full-pay status and view it as a springboard into otherwise unrealistic choices. It doesn’t work that way.

One thing you can do right now–and for the next couple years, before the college process heats up for your family–is to start taking your son to college campuses. Of course, you should heed what I advised above … that is, avoid making college the focus of the high school experience. But there are plenty of reasons to visit colleges that aren’t directly or obviously tied to the college search. A sporting event, museum, or play can be a good “excuse” to visit a campus, whether near home or while you’re on the road. Don’t worry at present whether the school you’re seeing is likely to be a wise choice for your son. The important thing at this point is for him to simply see what college campuses look like … and how very different they can be.

Often, when a student visits a campus for the first time, he or she has one of two diametrically opposed reactions. The first is, “Wow! This is great! I want to go here!” spoken effusively when Junior eyeballs the snazzy gymnasium, the brand-new apartment-style dorms, or the Pizza Hut smack in the middle of the quadrangle. Most teens don’t realize that many schools will share these attractions. On the other hand, some high schoolers will reject the first campus they visit because it looks nothing like the one they remember from “Dawson’s Creek.” Once they’ve seen several, however, they’ll start to put preconceptions on the back burner and to realize that the range of campus styles is wide. They’ll also start to hone in on what they may want in their own top-choice institution.

You seem to already have a sensible grasp of where your son’s stats will take him. While it seems ridiculous to place ceilings on a student’s college aspirations while he’s still a freshman, it’s also smart to recognize that the Ivies aren’t everything, and that a solid “B” student will still have many great options, but probably not Harvard, Yale or the like.

When it’s time to apply to colleges, your son’s guidance counselor will be asked to indicate on his applications if his course load is “Most demanding,” “Very demanding,” “Somewhat demanding,” etc. when compared to other students at his school. The more competitive colleges and universities will be looking for the “Most” or at least “Very” designations, but students whose loads are less daunting will certainly have options, too.

If your son’s record indicates a passion for a particular academic subject or outside activity, this will be a plus in the process, too. Sometimes 9th grade can be a time when students are saying goodbye to earlier pastimes and choosing news ones–or focusing more specifically on old favorites. As your son makes his plans, your top concern should be to stick with endeavors that he most enjoys, but also consider that atypical undertakings will get more attention at admission-decision time than the standard high-school fare (math club, chess club, debate, yearbook, Key Club, etc.) Colleges also applaud applicants who hold down jobs, so even running the fry-o-lator at Mickey D’s will “count” as a meaningful activity.

Finally, just because you and your husband will have your son’s college costs covered, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you need to spend all of your savings. Many colleges (though NOT the Ivies) award “merit aid.” This is scholarship money that comes from the college itself in order to entice top applicants to enroll. Some colleges give huge merit awards to a handful of students; others give out less money but more liberally. It’s hard to figure out which colleges offer the best merit aid. There are no master lists; policies change all the time; and Web sites can be vague about who gets what. However, as a general rule of thumb, if your son is applying to a college where his “numbers” (grades, SATs, rank, AP results) put him at the high end of (or above) the usual admitted-student pool, then he is likely to receive some sort of merit grant (assuming that the college does give merit aid and, these days, the majority do, although many of the most well-known colleges don’t … at least not yet).

If you want to start playing around with college options just for “fun” (well, it’s SOME folks’ idea of fun, I suspect :-)), try this:

Go to the College Board online search mechanism at http://www.collegeboard.com/splash

Next, respond to the series of questions that follow. You’ll be asked about various preferences (two-year vs. four-year school, location, size, etc.) and then about choices of majors and other activities. Under the “Admissions” rubric, near the end, you can plug in various projected SAT scores, GPA, etc. and then hit “Results” to see a list of colleges that your son might want to consider.

While it’s certainly way too early to start hunting down colleges in earnest, this might be a good way to locate some campuses worth checking out, as I suggested above.

So, the bottom line is this: The fact that you CAN pay for your son’s college is great. He won’t have to make his final choice based on cost or financial aid. But as you forge into the fray, the money issue should take a back seat to other priorities.

Share This

Question: My son is about to begin his junior year in high school. We plan to visit college campuses during school vacations. Is it possible to schedule admissions interviews if he’s only a high school junior? It’s doubtful we’d travel again to all these places in his senior year.

Many colleges will not officially interview juniors until the spring, so if you squeeze the bulk of your visits into a March or April vacation, you’ll be fine.

However, if you were planning on earlier interviews, then you’ll have to negotiate individually with each college on your list. If you live in Hawaii, Alaska, or overseas–or you’ll be coming from an opposite coast–then you may have more wiggle room than if your home is just several hours away by car. In some cases your son may be offered “informational interviews”—that is, a chance to sit down informally one-on-one for a brief chat with a staff member that won’t “count” as an official session.

If you’re visiting before the spring, many colleges may recommend that you take a tour and attend an information session while on campus but then schedule an interview with a local alumnus later on, if a return to campus is impossible. Note, too, that there are colleges out there (e.g., Amherst, U. of PA) that conduct NO on-campus interviews at all.

Keep in mind as you make your plans that, at some colleges, an interview CAN make a difference between good news and bad news when verdicts are final, but at others–especially the most hypercompetitive places–the interview ranks very low as an evaluative tool, no matter how great it is. So don’t feel that you are short-changing your son if you can’t get him to campuses for an official interview.

Share This

Question: Do you have a list of colleges in the Northeast that have a rolling admission policy?

The only list I have is this one, below, compiled by our “pals” at Princeton Review. It’s not limited to the Northeast but you may still find it helpful. Do note, however, that it’s not complete.

http://www.princetonreview.com/college/apply/articles/types/rollingcoll.asp

Also, be sure that you never take any college guide or Internet source as gospel truth. Always double check information, especially when important issues like deadlines are involved. (For example, some colleges and universities that have “Rolling Admission” also have “Priority Deadlines.” These favor students who meet them, often with better chances of acceptance or with first crack at financial aid and housing.)

In addition, check out this previous “Ask the Dean” response that offers another good source of information. http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/archives/000228.htm

If you use the College Board search engine described in the “Ask the Dean” (it’s at http://apps.collegeboard.com/search/adv_typeofschool.jsp ) you can select all of your college preferences. Under “Location,” be sure to mark “New England” and “Mid-Atlantic” (or check individual states down below the map). Then, under “Deadlines,” mark “Regular application deadline or priority date hasn’t passed.” When you hit “Results,” you should get a decent list of Northeast colleges with rolling admission. I did it just now and came up with 312 four-year colleges to check out further. That’s a nice project for a rainy afternoon! Happy hunting!

Share This

Question: Can you explain the difference between a private college and a public college? I’m confused about which one I should attend.

Public colleges are those that are largely supported by state funds. If you attend a public institution in your own state, you will get a break on tuitions costs, and–as a state resident–it’s usually easier for you be admitted, as well. However, if you attend a public college in ANOTHER state, you will probably not get those benefits (though some state institutions do have reciprocal agreements with other nearby states.)

Private colleges, on the other hand, are supported by tuition, endowment, and donations from alumni and friends. Usually they are more expensive than public colleges, but it does depend on the particular school. Also, private colleges often offer the best financial aid (see below). While attending a private school is reputed to translate into less red tape and more personal attention than you’ll find at the public counterparts, it’s important to look carefully at each individual college and to separate rumor from reality.

Many states have what are known as “flagship” universities. A flagship university is the main public college in the state, and it may be huge (e.g. Ohio State University, Penn State University, University of Texas). But often these states have many smaller public schools as well. Typically, flagship universities draw students from throughout the state as well as from other states and abroad. The smaller public colleges and universities tend to draw applicants from their immediate region are likely to have fewer out-of-state and international students. Often–although not always–the flagship universities are harder to get into than the other public schools in the state. Some states (e.g., New York, CA) do not have one main flagship college.

When making your target-college list, you probably don’t want to restrict it to EITHER private OR public schools. You should seek out all colleges that offer what you’re looking for: academic departments, location, size, extracurricular activities, religious affiliation (or lack thereof), as well as simply the right “feel.” The best way to determine if a school has this right “feel” is to visit campus when classes are in session and to try to talk (either in person or via e-mail) with current students and recent grads.

While cost may be an important consideration for you, don’t let that entirely govern your college choices … at least initially. Commonly, the more a college costs, the more money there is to give away. So, while lower tuition may make public colleges and universities attractive to you, don’t give up on the pricier private schools that may provide good financial aid. Ultimately, your final decision may have to be based on costs, but at this stage of the college exploration process, you don’t need to consider only the dough.

Share This

Question: I don’t understand the concept of majors. When choosing colleges, should we select those that have all the majors we’re interested in, or just one?

This “major” issue can be confusing indeed … and sometimes even a “major” pain. When you apply to some colleges, you need to have a major in mind and then you must apply not only to the college itself but also to your specific major or program. Sometimes, you may not need to choose a major, but you do need to apply directly to a specific “school” within a university (e.g., “School of Education,” “School of Allied Health Sciences,” etc.).

Whenever you apply to a college that asks you to list your choice of major on your application, be sure to find out if that choice is “binding.” That is, ask admission officials if you can switch your major as soon as you enroll, if you so choose. At some places, it is hard to make a change once you’ve committed.

Not surprisingly, many high school seniors do not know what their college major will be and–even those who do–often want the flexibility to change their minds. Luckily, most colleges don’t require you to commit to a major at the time of your application (though many WILL ask what your possible major or primary areas of academic interest might be).

If you do have a major in mind–or more than one–then it certainly makes sense to apply to colleges or universities that offer these options. Some majors–like biology, psychology, English, history, etc.–are so very common that nearly every institution (except the more specialized ones) will offer them. However, there are also unusual fields (e.g., “Soil Science,” “Recreation Therapy,” “Jewelry Design”) that won’t be widely available. So, of course, if you think you may be interested in an atypical field, then you would be wise to consider only those colleges that offer it.

Keep in mind, however, that–in most cases–a college major is made up of only about 10 to 12 courses, and most college students take about 32 courses during their four undergraduate years. (Requirements vary from major to major and from college to college, but those are ballpark figures.) So, even once you’ve determined your major for sure (which may not happen until the start of your junior year), you will usually have lots of opportunity to take classes outside of your major field.

Share This